As Ukraine’s counteroffensive is failing, some US officials are wondering if they should have listened to Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley’s calls for peace talks last November, POLITICO reported on Friday.
Milley called to “seize the moment” for peace talks after Ukraine made gains in the Kharkiv and Kherson region, arguing that the battle lines likely won’t change much in the future.
According to media reports at the time, Secretary of State Antony Blinken and National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan opposed Milley’s calls for negotiations. Earlier this year, ahead of the counteroffensive, Blinken came out strongly against the idea of a ceasefire.
A US official who spoke with POLITICO on the condition of anonymity said Milley “had a point.” The official said that the Biden administration “may have missed a window to push for earlier talks.” However, the official said that no senior officials believed backing the counteroffensive was a mistake despite the failure and high casualty rate.
The US insists it will back Ukraine for “as long as it takes,” but another US official told POLITICO that the administration is increasingly asking this question: “If we acknowledge we’re not going to do this forever, then what are we going to do?”
In comments to The Washington Post, Milley, whose tenure as joint chiefs chairman will be over at the end of September, made clear that he thinks the war will not end anytime soon without diplomacy.
“If the end state is Ukraine is a free, independent sovereign country with its territory intact, that will take a considerable level of effort yet to come. And this is a long, very difficult, high casualty-producing war that’s ongoing,” Milley said.
“You can achieve those objectives through military means. That’s gonna take a long, long time, but you can also achieve those objectives maybe possibly, through some sort of diplomatic means,” he added.
An interview with Ukrainian socialist Maxim Goldarb
Excerpt:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/08/19/ntbz-a19.html
That definitely passes the smell test. It would be surprising if a situation very much like the one Goldarb describes did not exist in Ukraine today.
The “collective West” and its Ukrainian clients and co-conspirators have a lot to answer for.
And they (the US military plotters) are pissed off that the Ukrainians are risk averse or something like that. Put your own damn self on the front line, see whether you might care about casualties, right?
Yeah, the gang that bombs wedding parties from comfy chairs in Nevada has a lot of nerve complaining about anyone else being too averse to casualties.
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/02/23/us/DRONE/DRONE-superJumbo.jpg
Hypocrisy is an American tradition.
Hypocrisy is a human tradition that existed long before the founding of the USA. .
True, but I can’t think of another country more hypocritical than the U.S., can you?
What do you mean? Sacrifice your life for the U.S. empire and more of its hegemony; don’t be a wimp!
The archive.li links in this and other recent posts are utterly useless. Every one I’ve followed leads to being trapped in an endless loop of reCAPTCHA challenges on one of the most amateurish web pages I’ve seen in this century.
It’s possible, of course, that the problem is related to my browser configuration, but, if it is, many, many other users are being blocked also. And few readers are going to even think about reconfiguring browsers to deal with this.
The most important thing this war is accomplishing is a steady flow from the Treasury to the MIC at the expense of goodies for the workers and citizens until Death and Financial ruin come upon all of us.
100% correct.
In some perverse way we should welcome it, for in my opinion financial destruction is the only impetus that will rouse the American people to excise the fascists in our midst.
It is sad and pathetic that so many intelligent and caring people are contemplating and predicting a horrible non future.By the way I met your namesake a long long time ago in Philly when he was Mayor.
That disgusting pig should have been imprisoned for life for bombing the MOVE houses.
It seems to me that allowing the fascists to continue their mischief is the “non future” or in the words of Eisenhower “humanity hanging on a cross of iron.”
I originally got the name from the Jerky Boys and it was only later when I became aware of the reference.
The American economy was pulled out of the Great Depression by the vast spending of WW2. Ever since, it has boomed when it has a war going, and stalled when peace breaks out.
DC faced economic problems, and war was their solution.
There are alternatives. Not just good enough but much better alternatives. But those would require a re-vitalized middle class and ending of poverty, which would deprive the elite of the resources for their current 1890’s style Robber Baron lifestyles.
WW2 spending got us out of the Great Depression … lol… am I on antiwar.com or NYT?
US OFFICIAL: He “had a point,” and “we may have missed a window to push for earlier talks,” but we didn’t make a mistake by missing the window and not listening to “the point.” How DUMB do you think we are for saying such meaningless bull $hit, US OFFICIAL? US OFFICIAL: Dumb enough. (Sarcasm)
Every day that passes, there is less of Ukraine to “save”. More dead; more destroyed infrastructure, more refugees who are unlikely to come back, more lost productivity, and more despoiled agricultural land.
Ukraine in 2022 was a shadow of Ukraine in 1991 in terms of population, resources, and industrial potential; and Ukraine today is a shadow of Ukraine in 2023.
Keep fighting, refuse to negotiate, and carry on to the bitter end, and what will Ukraine of 2024 look like?
If they are lucky like an American slum. If not like Dresden,Nagazaki,Iraq,Afghanistan.
It depends on what end result you really seek. Negotiate for what?
They could have had a Ukraine whole and at peace, if they let it be neutral. Ukraine could have lost less, if they negotiated earlier.
But in DC they did not care about Ukraine. They cared about Russia. They wanted to damage Russia. They are trying to drown Russia in Ukrainian blood.
In the long run it is our blood being spilled. Economic blood being mispent in a futile attempt to keep the American Empire from crashing as they all do.
Seems oddly assbackwards that the general wanted peace talks and the diplomats wanted more war.
LOL. Paradoxic Bizzarro world, but most importantly, devoid of common sense.
I think this is now pretty much standard practice. The generals know that the Pentagon will get the blame for an unwinnable war. As it did in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. The State Dept can “afford” to bluster, to start and continue, and to escalate, wars, because it won’t be held to account for their ultimate failures.
Milley certainly was more correct than Blinken, but this:
If the end state is Ukraine is a free, independent sovereign country with its territory intact, that will take a considerable level of effort yet to come. And this is a long, very difficult, high casualty-producing war that’s ongoing.
You can achieve those objectives through military means. That’s gonna take a long, long time, but you can also achieve those objectives maybe possibly, through some sort of diplomatic means.
is hopium/copium as well. If “with its territory intact” means Ukraine retaking Crimea, then there are no “military “means, short perhaps of WWIII, of “achieving” that “objective.” And “diplomatic means” require that something has to be given up by both sides. It was perhaps possible at one point to expect Russia to retreat in the Donbas, in exchange for some kind of Minsk III agreement. But Crimea?
Milley is trying to square the circle here. As are most advocates of what they claim are “diplomatic means” in the West. Their idea of “diplomacy” means that Russia retreat to 2014 lines, that the Ukraine joins NATO (either officially or de facto), with nuclear weapons deployed right up to the Russian border, if that’s what NATO wants, that meaningless, unenforceable “guarantees” of the human, political and civil rights of Russian speakers in the Ukraine should suffice, and, perhaps, that Russia makes reparation payments and turns over its officials for “war crime” trials as well. Just recently, Zelenksy made the sarcastic offer of “allowing” Russia to keep its own territory in “return” for the Ukraine joining NATO!
If any of these folks are serious at all about diplomatic means then they are going to have make a serious proposal. Give something up in return for whatever it is they expect Russia to give up.
Ukraine keeping Crimea is a ship that sailed when Ukraine tried to cancel the Russian lease on its bases and take back Crimea for the use of NATO.
Not to mention that Crimea was part of Russia until Nikita Khrushchev gave it to Ukraine. The people who live there want to be part of Russia, not Ukraine. This issue should be non-negotiable for Russia.
People keep looking for reasons to believe that the underlying “strategies” and war plans of this administration are being subject to some doubt.
Such people are over-indulging themselves in stupidity. If there’s any underlying set of considerations apart from world domination occupying the “minds” of our administration, that underlying set is political survival – in particular 2024.
Of course. All the Administration cares about is “winning. ” Winning the war and winning the election. With the latter being far more important than the former. Continuing the war past 11/24 might not be great politics, but losing it before the election would probably be even worse. Hence the new product: “stalemate.” A stalled war, a la Korea, might be good enough to see Biden through.
World domination is great, but you can’t dominate the world if you are out of office! So that’s what the politicos in the Administation care about most. The longer term players at the second and third levels, the highest levels of civil service, perhaps care more about world domination, because they tend to migrate from Administration to Administration regardless of party.
Joe Biden turned out not to have learned anything beyond gaining access to the top rung, a greedy crawl to the top evident in retrospect to anyone who looked, at his clown-like performances as soon as he got placed on the Senate foreign relations committee way back when.
I would say that he “learned” to focus on the big prize. He was smart and savvy enough to bail on the lost Afghanistan project. And to refrain from starting any new big projects in the now passe Middle East/Muslim world. Biden is focused on Russia and China. As an emperor, you have to give him credit for at least recognizing the greatest threats to the empire, and for being willing to back burner the smaller threats/non threats. He is trying to add a valuable new province or two (the Ukraine and Taiwan) to the empire. Valuable, if no other reasons, than that they are right in the spheres of influence of the two important rivals. Biden also seems pretty good at keeping the Senate and the people, and the provincial governors, and the various allies and barbarian/tribal kings and vassals in line.
Added: always a pleasure to read your comments.
TY!
+++
We have a very different view of dementia 😉
My impression is that he is not really present a good part of the time.
There is something similar about these psychopathic Neocon war-wh*res in Washington D.C. Most are disciples of the late philosopher Leo Strauss at the U of Chicago … a man who despised Karl Popper’s Open Society and Liberalism. Now, what could it be? Why are they so filled with rage and violence and vengeance? Why did they set the Middle-East in flames and now Ukraine? Hmmm …. There’s Nuland and Blinken and Kagan and Kristol and Pearl and Albright and Wolfowitz and many, many more. What could it be?
Wow Leo Strauss and Milton Friedman what a place.
There are two possibilities I see. Either they were dropped on their heads as children or else they were indoctrinated by right wing racists and parents taughtbto hate and fond of killing.
“Fond of killing” is the correct answer, methinks.
With Blinken&Sullivan conjoined twins, taking instructions directly from the Fallen Angel Itself.
Incidentally,
“General Milley compared the situation to the First World War, explaining that leaders on all sides understood by Christmas 1914 that that war was not winnable, yet they fought on for another four years, multiplying the million lives lost in 1914 into 20 million by 1918, destroying five empires and setting the stage for the rise of fascism and the Second World War.
Milley concluded his cautionary tale by noting that, as in 1914, “… there has to be a mutual recognition that military victory is probably in the true sense of the word, is maybe not achievable through military means. And therefore, you need to turn to other means… So things can get worse. So when there’s an opportunity to negotiate, when peace can be achieved, seize it, seize the moment.”
But Milley and other voices of experience were ignored. At Biden’s February State of the Union speech in Congress, General Milley’s face was a study in gravity, a rock in a sea of misplaced self-congratulation and ignorance of the real world beyond the circus tent, where the West’s incoherent war strategy was not only sacrificing Ukrainian lives every day but flirting with nuclear war. Milley didn’t crack a smile all night, even when Biden came over to glad-hand after his speech.”
the State Department and White House opposed the idea of negotiations.
they are not opposed to the idea of throwing more money at it though.
Of course not. The House and Senate critters — the ones who count — are fine with that money-throwing thing, also.
“[. . .]
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday called for continued support for Ukraine during an event in Louisville, Kentucky. He pushed back on arguments from House Republicans – and some Senate Republicans – that Russian aggression in Ukraine is not an issue for the US.
“’People think, increasingly it appears, that we shouldn’t be doing this. Well, let me start by saying we haven’t lost a single American in this war,’ McConnell said. ‘Most of the money that we spend related to
Ukraine is actually spent in the US, replenishing weapons, more modern weapons. So it’s actually employing people here and improving our own
military for what may lie ahead.’”
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/09/politics/white-house-responds-cnn-poll/index.html
Spending money on things that blow up and kill is OK as long as the weapons are built in the USA is the broken window fallacy. Those resources wasted on bombs and bullets could be productive instead of destructive.
Productive for whom.
Are they now going to play, “we didn’t listen to the general?” So sad. And at the cost of half million Ukrainians.
“And at the cost of half million Ukrainians.”.
They don’t recognize a half million dead as anything other than a business expense. They are depraved.
If only Ukrainians truly knew about those business expenses.