US officials have ruled out pushing Ukraine to negotiate with Russia even though they don’t think either side can win the war “outright,” The Washington Post reported on Tuesday.
The report reads: “Privately, US officials say neither Russia nor Ukraine is capable of winning the war outright, but they have ruled out the idea of pushing or even nudging Ukraine to the negotiating table. They say they do not know what the end of the war looks like, or how it might end or when, insisting that is up to Kyiv.”
A State Department official told the Post that the issue of ending the war is “a decision for the Ukrainians to make.” The official said that Washington’s “job now is to help them be in absolutely the best position militarily on the battlefield … for that day when they do choose to go to the diplomatic table.”
The report comes after Ukraine hardened its stance on negotiations with Russia in response to Russian President Vladimir Putin’s annexation of four Ukrainian territories. In response, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky signed a decree ruling out peace talks with Russia as long as Putin is president, essentially calling for regime change in Moscow.
The lack of a US push for diplomacy to end the war comes after President Biden warned the risk of nuclear “armageddon” was higher now than at any time since the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis. Since then, Putin has escalated the war with wide-scale missile strikes on power infrastructure across Ukraine in response to the truck bombing of the Kerch Bridge, which connects the Crimean peninsula to the Russian mainland.
Since the Russian escalation, the US and NATO have vowed to continue supporting Ukraine. Biden recently signed a stopgap funding bill into law that included $16 billion in new aid for Ukraine, bringing the total authorized US spending for the war over $67 billion, which is higher than Russia’s entire military budget for 2021.
The Post report said that President Biden had to tell Zelensky that he would have a hard time asking Congress for more money to spend on the war if Ukraine seemed ungrateful. Earlier in the war, Zelensky often said that the US and NATO weren’t doing enough to support Ukraine. The Ukrainian leader is still calling for more military aid but appears to have backed off on the harsher language, although some of his top officials have not.
When the aliens look at a desolate, depopulated earth, there should be a banner in the clouds: Our credo was: Never Negotiate! Abet and Feed the Mills of War!
Let me fix your banner for you:
“Never Negotiate with Russia”
DJ:
And where does that get you?…
More dead Ukrainians which he seems fine with.
That is a very stupid thing to say.
Could you please explain why you hate Russia so much?
One simple and coherent little paragraph will do.
What do you expect the Ukraine and the USA to win? What is this war about if not for the Russian natural resources. Maybe you know something most of us here don’t know.
Better to put us on the brink of nuclear destruction, than defuse this ticking bomb. You think that Russia & China will allow the feckless U.S. NATO cult of domination prevail if we keep up the pressure. But war is really the art of surprise and thereby no one is ever guaranteed victory. Just as fools tread where angels fear to go and hubris precedes a great fall. I am listening to the BBC right now that they are trying to get better air defense to Ukraine. Perhaps they missed the memo that Russian missiles are able to evade air defenses by stealth and speed. Trying to prop up Ukraine to defeat Russia is defeating Europe ending prosperity in the EU..!! As the sanctions on Russia backfired forcing Ukraine to carry on will have more negative results .
What and how pushing our new Mega Welfare client to fight on against Russia than to negotiate the type of security guarantees U.S. got that ended Cuban missile crisis is anyones guess. We know what the worst outcome could be, what is your best one?
This war will only end when someone in Congress tells those defense contractors you won’t have a building left tomorrow if we continue with this greedy reckless move.
So what? We support Ukraine, when they are ready to negotiate then they will negotiate.
Who are “we”? The DC war criminals? The MIC?
If you support the puppet regime in Ukraine? You should pay for it, fight for it and leave me and others out of it.
What YOU support is using government force to extort resources from unwilling citizens to pay for this war. YOU support my oppression and the oppression of others.
You are my hero for the day!
Most times when people use “we” they’re just using that word because they live here. Judging by John’s comments, it seems he actually means it in its literal sense.
The IMF is already revving up to “help” Ukraine. Austerity around the corner. Privatization the order of the day. Extortion of resources………oh yeah!
Oh, my, yes! They are “privatizing” Cyprus right now.
Realistically, at this point the war will only end when Ukraine is ready to negotiate after they enter an April 1945 stage.
It seems unlikely that Ukraine will ever enter an April 1945 stage, with Ukrainian troops closing in on Moscow while Putin cowers in a bunker.
Not sure if sarcasm, or serious…
I meant with Russian troops closing in on Kiev, with the whole of Ukraine teetering on total collapse.
Well, if that’s what you meant, then what you are saying is that Ukraine will never be ready to negotiate, since the chances of that happening are so slim as to essentially be zero.
As if our “support” for the Neo Nazi regime is not the only thing standing between it and complete military disaster. The Kiev-based entity is a puppet regime, like the ones in Saigan and Kabul. It will never be “ready to negotiate” because it is not in charge. When the USA “negotiated” the end of its “support” for the previous puppet regimes, they were overrun, more or less right away. And, in both cases, the puppet regime, quite naturally, opposed the negotiations.
Since the USA controls the means of making war, only the USA can really negotiate the end of the war. If, for whatever reason, Zelensky tried to do it on his own, he would be immediately replaced by “hard liners” operating with USA support.
We could encourage Z to talk but realistically why? He is busy gutting the Russian army and exposing Russia to the world. We can keep this up a bit longer.
Pffft!
But why WOULD “we”, John?
Why support more deaths on both sides?
I think if Amerikkka reinstated the draft, you were eligible, and “we” decided to send troops there, you might change your tune.
It’s so easy to be an armchair warmonger.
Like our POTUS.
The killing can stop as soon as Russia withdraws, or the Ukrainians decide to negotiate. No US troops are involved in this we are just providing material support. I strongly support us not going to war with Russia over Ukraine , I also strongly support providing Ukraine lots of aid to defend themselves.
“We” does not include me. OK? UK and US governments have zero credibility to me. ZERO. Governments are supposed to keep its citizens safe. Silly me if I am wrong.
You are not wrong, you are just in a different reality…
Three Blind Mice – Biden , Zelensky and Truss – follow the Farmers wife who cut off their tails with a carving knife. That is how this war will end NOT WITH A BANG BUT A WHIMPER.
Though they might not yet realize it, Russia has found a new economic weapon. Restoring the power grid will take weeks to repair and seriously compromises efforts to move western weapons to the fronts. But it will also add hundreds of millions of dollars to the invoice Zelensky will be presenting to the US Congress.
My senior year in high school, I took one study hall because I had completed all requirements. In that one hour study hall I read On the Beach. The entire novel. In one hour. The pages, words leapt out for me to devour. That book, that hour, really shook me. And now, here we are. So it goes.
They made a movie out of it also. Absolutely chilling… I also read the book in H.S.
Pretty good movie. Gregory Peck and Ava Gardner, wasn’t it? Oh, and, oddly enough, Fred Astaire, of all people.
How can any party negotiate with the Kremlin in good faith?
Source: The Guardia (August 2022)
Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, has said that Moscow wants to permanently occupy broad swaths of southern Ukraine in the clearest signal yet that the Kremlin is preparing to launch a new round of annexations.
In televised remarks, Lavrov also said Russia may seek more territory along the frontlines in Ukraine, calling it a buffer against the HIMARS long-range rocket artillery provided by the US.
While Lavrov claimed Russia’s new territorial ambitions were driven by the course of the war, the initial invasion sought to occupy much of Ukraine’s south and capture the capital, Kyiv.
Despite that evidence, the Kremlin has maintained that it launched its attack to protect its proxy governments in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
“Now the geography is different,” Lavrov said, in a change of rhetoric from the Russian government. “It’s not just Donetsk and Luhansk, it’s Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, and a number of other territories. And this is an ongoing process, consistent and insistent.”
His remarkswere also an admission that the invasion was designed as a war of conquest, despite early denials from the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, that Russia planned to occupy any new Ukrainian territory at all.
Look at HISTORY of the US. How can anyone negotiate ANY deal with the USA?
Bingo.
It’s not Ukrainian territory. The Ukrainian state forfeited any claims on much of the areas that state claimed after the US installed government sought to deny the human rights of the inhabitants of those aread…
The Ukrainian borders are fake. Those were set up by Communist dictators without the approval of the inhabitants. .
The Ukrainian borders were negotiated between the Ukrainian regime and the Russian Federation regime several years after the Soviet Union dissolved.
If you havn”t seen it, be sure to check out David Stockman’s “Maps, not to die for” on this site.
https://original.antiwar.com/David_Stockman/2022/10/09/maps-not-to-die-for/
The population wasn’t consulted. You continue to make the error that a country owns it’s population.
Neither the Russian State or Ukraine state had the right to determine a border or which state had the right to govern the population of those regions. That is the right of the people of that region.
In addition, a government is not entitled to violate the human rights of its population. This is especially true when a government seeks to overthrow preceding laws and historical precedents. As the Ukrainian regime did when it sought to remove the Russian language as an official language in areas of Ukraine.
Neither is a government entitled to change the terms of its governance of a region. For example, Crimea joined with Ukraine as an autonomous state. The Ukrainian government later dissolved the Crimean autonomous republic status and by doing so, lost any legitimate right to govern that region.
I’m not sure how you saying a bunch of stuff I agree with constitutes me making an “error.” All I did was point out that the borders of Ukraine were set by post-Communist regimes, not the previous Communist regime of the Soviet Union. That doesn’t mean I agree with the process.
Wrong in fact. The borders were set by the Soviets. That those borders were ACCEPTED by the Russian hierarchy is irrelevant. Not sure how you can miss the difference.
Not sure how you can miss the difference that the Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation dates from 1997, not from prior to 1991.
Re read the post. The borders of the SSR of Ukraine were set up by the Soviets. Go ahead and dispute that. But it’s a fact..
.The Russian Federation accepted those borders under Yeltsin. Neither asked the population under the Soviets or the post Soviet regimes.
The next time any regime consults the population about borders will be the first time. The fact that the borders agreed on between the Ukrainian regime and the Russian Federation regime happened to be the previous “internal” borders decreed by the Soviet regime is irrelevant. If Canada is taken over by the Revolutionary Communist Party tomorrow and subsquently reaches a new agreement on borders with the US regime, it will have been the two existing regimes, not the no longer existing regime, which “set” the borders in that agreement.
The original point stands. The Soviets set the borders.
What is controversial here, other than the US providing deadly weapons to a country right next door to Russia?
What if Russia were providing huge amounts of various weapons and funds to Mexico to enable them to wage war against the USA?
“But the USA did not invade Mexico”…
Even if Washington DC did, we still would absolutely not tolerate an outside entity getting so involved in a conflict that is none of their business.
Don doesn’t like those whataboutisms. It’s hard for him to wrap his head around the fact that the instigator of this war would have made Russia’s reaction look lightweight as compared to how the US would have reacted under similar circumstances if they were happening on US borders.
Historical Trivia: The US DID invade Mexico in 1848 simply because it was “manifest” that our destiny was to occupy all of the land between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans.
I often think about that to wrap my head around the ethnic/loyalties in Donbas.
If the US started shelling Latino communities in the southern US, would Mexico be “justified” in intervention or invasion ?
Some Latinos would side with Mexico, some with the US, some would leave the war zone entirely hither and yon.
Oh, If I knew this before, I would be more supportive of Russia invading Ukraine and any other country.
Thanks for the historical input.
From now on, I will support Russia in every invasion they put their eyes on to include USA. Fuk it, our Planet should be one country only, RUSSIA.
DJ:
Are you stuck in a ‘time warp”?….
— Russia is the biggest country in the world. Everything is next door to Russia.
Russia has weapons all around its borders especially in Kaliningrad and next to Lithuania and Estonia and also in the Kuril Islands, Arctic, and near Alaska.
— Russia is not providing weapons to Mexico and if it does, I’m 100% that the US would not invade Mexico as the US recognize Mexico as a country and respects its territorial integrity.
“His remarkswere also an admission that the invasion was designed as a war of conquest, despite early denials from the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, that Russia planned to occupy any new Ukrainian territory at all.”
Unless of course, you listened to his reasons. The West, West, West, made Russia’s decisions for them.
Yes, his reasons are Gas and Grain monopoly and taking the entire land because Ukraine, according to Putin, is not a country and it belongs to Russia.
Nothing to do with Neo Nazis, de-militarization, the two Minsk BS agreements, and surely NATO aspirations.
But you drank that kool aid, so nothing can be changed there.
You are all about what Russia wants and zero about what Ukraine wants.
Same question I asked someone else here:
If the West suddenly abandons Ukraine and Ukraine decides to continue fighting, will you still be siding with Russia? Or will you still blame US/EU/NATO in perpetuity?
First you just repeat your same nonsense and ignore 30 years of provocations with more nauseating tripe and then you ask a hypothetical question that was even dumber than your normal standard of dumb.
I’ve listened to most of the broadcasts from Russia – as opposed to quotes from western media – since before the most recent Ukrainian invasion buildup of the Eastern Oblasts in 2021. Unless the Russian-English translators were and have been lying, your interpretations are incorrect.
History doesn’t begin when hostilities break out. History is the part that comes before and as far as I’ve been able to tell, you consistently ignore the history that started with the end of the cold war. I find your view intellectually dishonest.
Indeed. Anything before Feb. 2022 didn’t exist in Don’s eyes.
The Budapest Memorandum didn’t exist to you, Mr. One Side Diplomacy.
You are such an idiot. Yes, and whole sh*tload of provocations happened AFTER the Budapest Agreement which has been pointed out to you too many times to mention. You’re making my argument for me.
The US has not negotiated with Russia since before the Special Military Operation began. Why would these idiots in the Joe Biden administration start negotiating now?
They are waiting for the Ukraine to be in a good bargaining position to get a better deal for NATO.
Possibly because of the spiraling costs for the US taxpayer who is already in hoc for 31 trillion $$ which is about $ 10,000 per American.
No wonder I can’t afford a loaf of bread…
Your argument makes sense. But I think it unlikely that Ukraine will ever be in a better bargaining position.
Reportedly, “Biden had to tell Zelensky that he would have a hard time asking Congress for more money to spend on the war if Ukraine seemed ungrateful.”
1/ “Ungrateful”? Openly belligerent and abusive is more like it.
2/ I wanna see that Post piece – wondering how something like this, that you would think would have been done off the record, got on the record.
3/ It’s a ‘PR for selling the war’ question:
Biden spoke of the impact of Ukraine’s words on Congress; but Z’s congressional appeals were deliberately set up by the administration as public events, with the object of persuading both Congress and the public to support massive and endless US military support.
In other words, as I’ve asserted, Z’s congressional appeals were proxy State Department neocon appeals.
So how did Biden even get the idea that abusively importuning Congress was ‘not working’?
“Ungrateful” = negotiating with Russia to end the war.
The beggars are getting a wee bit demanding, aren’t they?
The Ukraine is perfectly safe in the hands of the US Congress. They will give them anything they want. Anything. (Although they are running out of “stuff” to give them.)
But you must understand that defending borders and territorial integrity is of overriding importance to the US Gov’t–as long as it doesn’t involve “our” borders or territorial integrity.
$ee how that work$?
“A State Department official told the Post that the issue of ending the war is “a decision for the Ukrainians to make.” The official said that Washington’s “job now is to help them be in absolutely the best position militarily -”
1/ “A decision for the Ukrainians to make.” “Our job. “Says who? Wholly arbitrary assertions invented by neocons to serve the goal of prolonging the war as long as possible…
…which is why when Ukraine did start to negotiate w/Russia, the west rushed to Ukraine – Johnson and Blinken in short order – to shoot negotiations down.
2/ A framing to deep six democracy – the polls showing citizens want the US to engage in diplomacy w/Russia vs a purely military response.
Not to mention the Minsk Agreements.
This war began with the overthrow of the Russia-leaning Ukrainian government in 2014 followed by the counterstroke of the Russian occupation of the Crimea. This war is, among others, about the control of the Black Sea and the encirclement of Russia, which is a main reason why the Russians, following their Kiev fiasco, have occupied much of the coastline and its hinterland. Odessa is missing.
It is in the real world a war between us and Russia. The Ukraine provides the cheap soldiers for us.
Not “us”. This is a war between those that rule the USA and those rule Russia. Ukraine is just the dupe, the cannon fodder and the battleground. We aren’t consulted: just told what the rulers decide. Sometimes, like in blowing up Nordstream, we aren’t even told.
That being said, the people in some of the areas claimed by the Ukrainian regime, prefer being ruled by Russia due to cultural factors. The precedent is a threat to the “Rules Based Order” imposed by hegemonic nations especially the USA.
LOL! Yeah, “rules-based” order.
As a retired linguist, I’ll translate that for you at no charge:
“If you don’t gimme the deed to the ranch, I’ll throw you on the railroad tracks!”
Or we make the rules and you obey the orders.
I’ll buy that!
We say Jump and you ask, How high? 😉
LOL! Perhaps … but unless I miss my guess, when they say, “Jump!” they mean “off this bridge!”
Vote these @$$h0les OUT.
HOW??
Well, I admit, as dumb as Americans have become, they don’t even flinch at the prospect of complete nuclear annihilation, much less consider it a voting issue. I’m sure they will rank racial equailty, health care, social security and abortion rights ahead of war opposition. We’re cooked.
We, at least, TRY to keep up with what is being done to us. The “voters” are planning Halloween parties and tail-gating parties and looking forward to “the game” this weekend, and all the rest of it. They don’t know anything about the war. They don’t watch “TV nooze.” (Neither do I. but from rather a different motivation.)
They don’t know who Tulsi Gabbard is. They know only that “working people vote Democrat.” And “country club members vote GOP.” That’s what they “know.”
So, yes, I can see them as ready for cooking, but not you and me. But here is what is going to happen:
When Joe Sixpack FINALLY gets it thought his pret-ty thick skull that FedGov (and maybe even his own state gov) MEAN to take away his CAR, THEN he will put a stop to the whole mad Tower-of-Babel scheme.
The signs are everywhere that states are going their own way already (some have their own immigration laws; some have legalized the evil weed even though that’s still an offense against FedLaw, etc). And when Joe finally realizes that FedGov really and truly expects him to get rid of his CAR and NEVER DRIVE AGAIN, he and his buddies (and me with them) will walk down the street and pay a visit on our STATE REPRESENTATIVE and will “explain things” to him with the VERY SINCERE advice that he get his goat-smellin’ a** up to [state capital] and effin’ FIX THIS S**t!
And he will. Believe me, he WILL.
Things will likewise be explained to state governors. Then oil drilling will resume, Refineries will resume operation, Pipelines will do so. Etc. Not, of course, overnight, but Joe won’t take the necessary action until re-starting everything is enormously difficult. But Americans have done enormously difficult things before, and when Joe groks that he ain’t gonna have no WHEELS if he doesn’t DO something, then he WILL do something.
The states will go their own way. FedGov will yammer and bitch and moan, and their “courts” will “hand down rulings” and all the rest of it. But when Joe (and me) are standing in our State Rep’s living room explaining that we know where he lives and here’s what YOU are gonna DO,” self-preservation will kick in. We can’t get to our tormentors–they are well-insulated from us. But that’s not true of the state-level folks.
In FACT, they will eventually claim that it was all their idea! Joe won’t know or care as long as he gets gas for his car and lighter fluid for his grill.
Remember: ALL enforcement is NECESSARILY LOCAL. The Sheriff in Topeka can’t enforce the law in Pittsburgh.
And pretty soon, the sheriffs all over the country are going to find themselves faced with a choice: Enforce FedGov’s MAD dictates or NOT. They will quickly realize that they are going to have to say, “Okay, folks, I’m gonna tyrannize you all and take your private property–your CARS–and wreck your lives in general but, hey, vote for me in November!”
A non-starter if ever there was one. They aren’t fools the sheriffs.
And as far as the much-talked-about digital “currency” and the total-surveillance state, there is quite simply not enough electricity for that–and there ain’t GONNA be. How can they shut down all forms of electricity generation but still expect to run a total-surveillance state and a digital “currency”? But they do expect that.
Look out the window. See those power poles and lines?
The power grid is not defensible, and that is not news. Absent 100% cooperation from the entire population (ha!), none of this nonsense is going to happen. Just this afternoon I was in a dollar store, and their computers were “down.” A couple in front of me said that they had just been at Walgreens and that their system was “down” too.
And with the way that everything is connected nowadays, if banks in Cheyenne lose their internet connection, then banking stops in China and France.
But, of course, the would-be builders of the Tower of Babel also expected their stupid plan to end in success. But it didn’t.
The globalists’ plans for us today are merely another Tower of Babel scheme, and it will end in the same way and for the same reason.
So, yes! They will do ENORMOUS damage and will kill a great many people, but in the end, we shall come out of it all sadder but wiser. For a few generations, anyway. The lesson of history, of course, is that nobody ever learns the lessons of history.
But I don’t agree that we are cooked. Not by a long shot.
When I say were cooked, I mean by a Russian or Chines nuclear missile Exchange. Once that starts, there’s no turning it off, it’s automatic. And make no mistake this is an energy producer war. We want to supply Europe with gas, and do not want Russia doing it. It’s really that simple. That said, the world population, needs to be drastically slashed in near time, because we have exceeded what the planet can support. Sure, they need customers, I get that. But I think they are underestimating, or miscalculating, that Putin will respond rationally. He won’t, he’ll double down, and we’ll double down, and he’ll double down, and the next thing you know, were all dust in the wind. That’s how I see this going if we don’t get them to start negotating peace.
Let me, then, start by asking what evidence–even a tiny shred will do–have you seen that Putin won’t respond rationally to the blood-suckers in Washington and London nuking Russia or somebody?
I am considerably older than you, and I cannot recall a world leader in my entire lifetime acting with more amazingly disciplined restraint that Mr Putin has done. Certainly not JFK or Khruschev. It was submarine commander Vasili Arkhipov who refused to launch his missiles, thus saving the world, NOT JFK or Khruschev.
Putin is adept at chess and at martial arts. He has no doubt read (and internalized) Sun Tzu. He knows right well that one must “appear weak when you are strong.” After recent events, it seems abundantly clear that that is what he has been doing. The recent feints have drawn what remains of Uke forces into one of the Russian “cauldrons.” They are between Russian forces in the southeast and Belorussian forces north of Kiev–in a classid pincer.
The fighting has not been done by Russian regulars, by and large, but by the People’s Militias
in the liberated oblasts. It was they who routed the Azov Battalions from their fortifications at Mariupol, not Russian regulars. We know (from public US sources) that the Ukraine has lost 100,000 KIA. Not total casualties, but KILLED.
But I digress.
International relations do NOT accelerate from O to 60 in 3 seconds. That’s just not how things happen. They never have.
We still have “normal” diplomatic relations with Russia. Why, there is no war, after all. Not officially. If you see the Russian Embassy close and ALL Russians recalled home, and if you see the US Embassy in Moscow closed and all personnel recalled home, THEN it will be time for “concern.” But not before that.
The purchase of iodine capsules is total propaganda, and most of the public is blissfully unaware of it anyway. It there were to be a general nuclear exchange, what the eff good would pills do anybody? It’s propaganda. And graft–Nancy Pee has bought thousands of shares in the Big Pharma outfit (remember them??) that has–who would have thought it??–SOLD FedGov millions of pills. I mean, you can’t even make this s**t up! It’s just business as usual. Graft and corruption. The only people who even KNOW about the pills are CONVINCED that the end of the world is at hand, so of COURSE they won’t bat an eyelash as Nancy Pee making millions on a FedGov purchase order for missions of freakin’ PILLS for God’s sake! THAT is what we are seeing.
And the propaganda is SO CHEESY, too! It’s insulting the s**t they expect us to believe.
Putin has more arrows in his quiver than Russian conscripts and nukes. Things don’t go from “international tensions” to nuclear exchanges in a few weeks or even months or even YEARS. Nukes are “useful” only as long as they are NOT USED. They are for “deterrence.” If you use them, you (and everybody else) are cooked.
NOBODY has a motivation to use nukes–at least not now. Ask yourself what has REALLY changed since February.
You know?
Oh, yes, there’s been no end of drama and school-girl hysteria, but so what? School girls do not command nuclear arsenals. Nor is Rachel Maddow or Keith Olberman or the rest of those pinheads.
If triumphant NATO armies (you know–the ones from all those countries in Europe buying FIREWOOD to keep from freezing to death in the 21st century) are approaching Moscow, having laid waste to everything in their path, THEN the nukes will fly, but not before.
Putin (and ALL governments) have “assets” all over the place. There’s cyber-attacks on banking and financial systems.
Suppose the Russians shut down the New York Stock Exchange?
Or the Federal Reserve computer system?
Suppose their assets already in “our ” country decide to knock out the nine power sub-stations that, if knocked out, would shut down the WHOLE US power grid, which is KNOWN to be indefensible anyway?
https://www.utilitydive.com/news/could-terrorists-really-black-out-the-power-grid/241192/
This is NOT news.
Suppose Putin decides to knock off Nancy Pelosi and Lindsey Graham and “Doctor” Hill Biden?
Do you think Russia (and every other power in the world, including our “allies”) does not have “assets” who have been living here for YEARS? We have had open borders for years. Everybody who wants “assets” inside the US has them and HAS had them for dog’s years.
Suppose some of them get an email “Deliver the pizza”? And they get rid of key neocons and other assorted undesirables at their homes in DC?
Suppose a well-trained Russian force, all of whom have been living in DC for years, decide to shove the Capitol Police aside and gun down Congress? Do you REALLY believe that the Russians don’t HAVE that already in place and ready to go? Who suspected that Pakistani agents had a CONTRACT to provide computer services to Democrat House members for several years before they just up and disappeared one day a few years back? Freakin’ PAKISTAN–okay?? You know?
What if Putin decides to attack US forces in Syria? They are there in violation of international law, whereas the Russians have been ASKED there by the legitimate government.
What if Iran attacks Israel?
And so on and so on and so on.
There are HUNDREDS of options for striking a DEVASTATING blow WITHOUT nukes. The possibilities are limited only by the imagination.
If they dropped the bridge over the Mississippi at Baton Rouge, it would shut down the whole US for several years. The Ohio-Mississippi-Platte-Red rivers drainage system, okay? And it needn’t kill or even injure a single American. And HOW would US natgas producers then ship their product to Europe? Answer: They WOULDN’T. And you are right about the natgas angle, but with the whole continent closed to river traffic, ZERO American natgas goes ANYWHERE.
So WHY ON EARTH should Russia BLOW UP THE WORLD including themselves when they can just drop the Baton Rouge bridge into the Mississippi with almost NO effort?
As for the West nuking the Ukraine–WHY should they nuke their own goose that lays their golden eggs? Yes, yes, I’ve read all the blather about “the coming false flag” and all the rest of it, but who REALLY believes that Biden, Pelosi, Schumer (anybody remember him?), and Mitt Romney (to name the ones I know about!) are going to blow up the gravy train that THEIR OWN CHILDREN are riding RIGHT NOW?
EVERYBODY CONCERNED has UMPTEEN options for striking SERIOUS blows WITHOUT nukes.
There is NO reason for nukes and NO motivation to use them. That could change, but I don’t expect it to. Why should it? What has REALLY changed since February anyway? There’s been a lot of DRAMA and HYSTERIA, but that’s for popular consumption by low-info folks. It’s a media event so far. The embassies are open. We have normal diplomatic relations. The boat has not REALLY been rocked except on TV and online.
But it’s just a televised pissing contest so far.
Cheesy propaganda and schoolgirl hysteria spewed forth by JOE BIDEN (for God’s sake!) and by the talking heads on Tee Vee.
I could go ON AND ON, but if you don’t get the picture by now, then I have to give up.
The people concerned DO NOT act against their own selfish self-interest. They NEVER HAVE and there is NO reason for them to start now.
Trust in their greed and cunning. You will not be disappointed OR surprised.
And go ahead and buy the iodine pills if you trust Big Pharma. But as for me, I can’t imagine wanting to live in a post-nuclear-war world. If you do, well, knock yourself out! But as for me, no, thanks.
And it’s not going to happen anyway. There is NOT reason for it and EVERY reason for it NOT to happen. There is, by the way, no “button’ for some dimwit to press. That ain’t how nukes are handled. And I would bet the rent that if ALL ELSE FAILS and the thieves and fools and poltroons in Washington DO “go for it,” there are some real men in the Pentagon who will put a stop to it just as Capt Arkhipov did in 1962.
Thanks–really!–for your replies. All the best to you!
Oh, and NO the world population does, in FACT, NOT need to be slashed, nor have we reached anything even approaching the dreaded “carrying capacity.” There is ZERO evidence for that except Malthusian superstitions.
It has been established for years now that IF we used PROPER farming methods, the ENTIRE PRESENT-DAY population of the entire would could be fed by the land in HALF of the Sudan.
And that is a FACT.
We have ben for the past several years now in the Eddy Grand Solar Minimum. The earth is COOLING and will continue doing so until everybody reading this is LONG dead. Nobody now living will see the end of the current GSM.
TURN OFF YOUR TV.
Well, I made an excruciatingly long reply to you on this, explaining why there is no danger of nuclear war, but it seems to have disappeared into the ether, a distressingly common phenomenon that I ruefully call “one of the vagaries of cyberspace.”
Going to bed now. All the best to you! And don’t fret yourself about the nuke propaganda. As long as the Russian Embassy in Washington and the US Embassy in Moscow are functioning normally, we have normal diplomatic relations with Russia. If the embassies are recalled by both countries and the buildings shut down and all the files destroyed (the ones that haven’t been hacked already), THEN there might be cause for concern, but not before that.
The ONLY thing happening at present is a pissing contest for the cameras and microphones. It’s a media event. That’s all. Relax.
OK, I mean all I see is escalation after escalation and refusal to engage in diplomacy from both sides. Not sure how you relax and trust them in that situation, I think you maybe underestimating what Putins concerns are at 70 years old. He wants a legacy, so I don’t think he’s just going to walk away with his tail between his legs.
Putin is not going to walk away, tail or no tail.
The Russians won the war in April when they took the city of Mariupol. The Russians will leave the Ukraine with very little, which is what the Ukrainian “government” has allowed the US and Britain to force them into. They were fools. But you can’t fix stupid.
Russia will take the Ukraine’s Black Sea coast and leave the Ukraine with NO coastline; a land-locked country.
Russia’s victory will be total. Russia will dictate peace terms. The Ukraine’s defeat will be total. There will be no nuclear exchange unless things change RADICALLY, and there has been NO indication that they will. SO FAR.
As for the “escalation,” that has been done entirely by the West. Russia has responded to Western escalation, but has not escalated without the most egregious provocation by the West.
Here’s the bottom line: ALL Western countries have normal diplomatic relations with Russia, and Russia with ALL Western countries. As long as that remains true, THERE IS NO DANGER. Should embassies be recalled on all sides, THEN we might begin to be concerned.
Until then, it’s just a media event–like COVID. A pissing contest for the cameras. There’s a lot of stupid, loose talk, but that comes from Dopey Joe and Lindsey Graham and the neocon warmongers in Washington and London. The President of the French Republic only a couple of days ago told Biden to shut his stupid mouth. Called him “irresponsible” for his loose talk about “nuclear Armageddon” and all the rest of the senile idiot’s ramblings:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/oct/8/frances-emmanuel-macron-scolds-joe-biden-talk-nucl/
But back to “escalation.” In March (the 22nd, I think it was)
Zelinsky said that the Ukraine would not join NATO.
Jens Stoltenberg, Sec’y-Gen of NATO refused in March to endorse the Ukraine’s application for NATO membership.
US National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan refused to endorse the Ukraine’s NATO application.
And only about 10 days or two weeks ago (maybe less; I’ve forgotten, but anyway VERY recently), the Ukraine’s NATO membership was turned down FLAT by NATO.
NATO has repeatedly “blinked” when eyeball-to-eyeball with Russia. So wherein do you see continual “escalation”?
It is on TV, not in real life. Just like the COVID hoax. It is a media event; nothing more (SO FAR). That could change; anything can change, no matter whether it has to do with war or ladies’ fashions. But there has been no escalation BY RUSSIA. The West, of course, blew up the pipelines. Britain blew up the Kerch Bridge. And Putin blew up the Ukraine IN RESPONSE to those outrageious provocations. But it IS a war, after all.
Anyway, the “escalation” has been exclusively from the West. But what has changed? The West has rejected the Ukraine’s NATO membership. They have blinked EVERY TIME they’ve come eyeball-to-eyeball with Putin. There are NORMAL diplomatic relations in place ALL AROUND.
There has been no escalation to speaks of EXCEPT on your TV. so stop paying attention to the lies and propaganda. They are playing you for a fool, but you are NOT a fool or you would not be an anti-war dot com reader, okay?
Relax, it’s all just a SHOW; a MEDIA EVENT. SO FAR.
That is a nice bridge you have there, be a shame if something happened to it……….
“after President Biden warned the risk of nuclear “armageddon” was higher now than at any time since the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.”
And yet this rules out “pushing” Ukraine to negotiate.
“The Post report said that President Biden had to tell Zelensky that he would have a hard time asking Congress for more money to spend on the war if Ukraine seemed ungrateful.
But Joe draws the line if Volod doesn’t ask nicely. We won’t induce a nuclear war if you’re rude. C’mon, we aren’t that easy.
I have come around to the point of view that we now have TV actors in charge of both Ukraine and the US.
And they’re not even good or talented.
Well, unless you count dancing in high heels and playing piano with your johnson.
I forget, WHICH one did that? 😉
OH!! What a mental image! You will keep me awake ALL night with that remark!
One day you’ll push for Russia to negotiate fairly as well. Once day.
Or maybe not cause only Ukraine and West need to negotiate and give concessions. Russia takes all. That’s you type of diplomacy.
More idiocy. You assume, for some ungodly reason, that I don’t want Russia to negotiate “fairly”. I WANT Ruissia to give back territory. I WANT all parties to honor the Minsk Agreement. And I WANT NATO to stay off of Russia’s borders and quit doing war games on those same borders. You know, what Russia wanted before invasion.
He also assumes that you or we are going to “push” some unspecified entity in the hope of getting Russia to do something unnecessary but that HE wants to see happen.
But whom would we “push”? And how? And how much attention would “they” pay to us even if we did this pushing?
Just going out on a limb here, but I’m gonna say, “Nobody. Nobody will pay you any attention whatsoever when you do this pushing thing, so save yourself the effort.”
Which I was gonna do anyway.
From the link:
“Our minister of finance is under extreme high pressure, when he sends these checks to the military, to pension funds … we have to have this money in his hands. So something like one week or several weeks’ delay is just not acceptable,” said Oleg Ustenko, an economic advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.
“Not acceptable.” How dare the EU “delay” sending the Neo Nazi regime money that it has absolutely no right or entitlement to in the first place, whatsoever?! The hubris, the sheer chutzpah and gall, of these pop-in-jay gaulieters is amazing. How I would love to be an EU official, just so I could tell Oleg You-Stinko that he can kiss my ass!
He would probably do it. They want that $$$$. Don’t care what they have to do for it. Although I’ll grant that they are VERY high-priced whores.
Unfortunately, our European brethren suffer from the same cowardice as our esteemed leader when it comes to standing up to the demands of the World’s preeminent TV actor.
But have some compassion. The Europeans are under the Washington’s thumb.
They don’t dare land, lest they succumb to the radiation……………
The US government has two priorities in play here:
First, sell more weapons for the military industrial complex that dominates DC; and
Second, bleed Russia.
Note, they don’t give a flying anything for Ukraine or what happens to it in the end. In fact, they’d assumed it would already be an insurgency situation, and this is considered a great success. They want it to keep going, no end in sight nor really desired.
Not to forget Europe, the EU will go the same way Ukraine goes.
Yep. and at the hands of the same criminal gang.
I agree! Which is why I don’t think there’s any REAL danger of nukes.
I don’t know SOA, it seems there’s always room for nukes…!
Donna, we grew some killer pot this summer. I’ll share 😁
The “take-over-the-world crowd” want to take over the world for a reason, an it is not to possess a radioactive, smoking ruin. After all, they are not stupid. Evil, oh, my, yes! But they have looted the entire world and have arranged things so that we couldn’t get anywhere NEAR them even if we knew where they were. Does that spell “stupid” to you?
So they are greedy (a wholly inadequate word for the creatures we’re talking about) and evil, but not stupid. They intend to resume the looting of Russia that Putin interrupted back in the ’90s. So rendering the object of their lust into a radioactive, smoking ruin is not going to get them what they want, and if we know anything at all about them it is that they GET what they want.
I know that there are those who think that “the elites” (and there has GOT to be a better term for the creatures than THAT) have their cushy “bunkers” somewhere (Denver airport or New Zealand or wherever) but those will not save them from anything should there be a general nuclear exchange, and they K NOW that.
A general nuclear exchange would leave radioactivity who-knows-where for up to five years, so these “elites” would have to “live” underground for five years. And do you REALLY think Victoria Nuland or Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pee are going to do that?
And when they do come back up into the world, what will they have? Who will drive their limousines and pilot their yachts? Will there BE any yachts? (The correct answer is NO.) Who will loot Russia of her natural resources for them? Or will the “elites” take up mining and operating refineries during their five years underground at the Denver Airport? How will they get out of New Zealand–or what is left of it, which will be precisely nothing.
On whom will they look down as “deplorables” in their radioactive, desertified planet? Where will they get their fine wines and whatnot? Will they take French vintners and farmers underground with them for five years?
These “elites” have ZERO motivation to blow up the world. Their object is to OWN the world and lord it over whoever their “vaccines” haven’t killed.
When they see that Putin can return the Ukraine to a 15th-century living standard (for the survivors who aren’t in Poland), they will move on. That’s what they did in Viet Nam, Cambodia, Kuwait, Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc., etc., etc. It’s their M.O. Wreck the place and move on.
Their often-stated goal is to bleed Russia to the point that the Russians overthrow Putin so that they can resume the looting that he interrupted 30-odd years ago. Blowing up the world won’t get them that. When they have wrecked the Ukraine and Putin is still around, they will move on to some other crime; some other victims.
They have never done any different. What motivation do they have to start now?
So the USA, G7, NATO all pretend they are letting the sovereign state of Ukraine decide on its future!!!! Nobody knows who will win!
Let them try, as VVPutin said! We do not have to wait very long!!!
Maybe Zelensky is getting the message, they are getting closer and closer to be thrown under the bus, the ride is almost over. Trusting the USA will kill you, Kissinger said. NATO and EU are learning the hard way. BTW Putin learned the hard way too, he reached out and they slapped him in the face, Gorbachev and Yeltsin the same. Iran and all the American Indian tribes.
Americans can’t be trusted, remember that.
“To be America’s enemy is dangerous. To be America’s friend is fatal.”
H Kissinger.
So true, see Germany and the EU, the economy is being destroyed intentionally, and not for the first time, it started with the first WW the second and now the Anglo-Saxon have a third chance to annihilate Germany.
So true, see Germany and the EU, the economy is being destroyed intentionally, and not for the first time, it started with the first WW the second and now the Anglo-Saxon have a third chance to annihilate Germany.
The world may think otherwise. Look up latest Asian take on events — primarily Chinese and Indian. Such as latest Indian Punchline titled Two Potentates Meet Up in St. Petersburg.
For one, most believe that Russia already won, The real battle was for preserving US unipolar world, not the fate of Ukraine.
And collective West lost the battle already. The author calls Western leaders “Neandertal men”, hollow beings that should have disapeared in the dustbin of history.
And in the most succint manner, defines the revival of Western Nazi legacy as means to wound Russia, to erase its language, litterature, music. Ukraine led by a Russia-hating zealot is a perfect tool.
Pushing the Russophobia to this extent turned the world away. Polite silence is the best West leaders get when trying to elicit support for anti-Russia sanctions.
Of course, countries are not suicidal. Nobody wants to run afoul of Imperial controls.
Clinton once said that it is better to be FEARED than
LOVED. So, today, out of fear many countries are looking over shoulders. But Clinton and the Neandertal crowd are wrong. It is better to be RESPECTED than FEARED. The world is finding a way around fear, to support those they respect.
Here’s a way to “nudge” ZelBoy to the negotiating table: stop sending Amerikkkan taxpayer-funded weapons. That oughta do it.
If we had a functioning international organization dedicated to peaceful resolution of conflict as opposed to the “United” Nations, the US and its puppet NATO would have been cited for willfully promoting the continuation of a war with the potential to erase humanity.
But wait. …, we run the UN as well. I would like to see a vote to remove the UN from the land of the Hegemon, for starters.
Then, perhaps it’s time to remove this president and his PNAC delegates from their perch, because they are obviously incapable of making intelligent choices for the welfare of the planet.
Well, yeah, but there’s that annoying problem of elections. But they’ll get that right soon enough.
And that annoying issue of the candidates we are allowed to choose from.
Ron Paul, where are you?
Biden did never push for negotiations, he did the opposite.
BIDEN BLOCKS NEGOTIATIONS.
Common sense is too much to ask for from a totally insane administration.
We do have a demented president barely able to finish a coherent sentence and a totally incapable neocon state department managed by mentally deranged people incapable to produce a coherent policy. The department officials have no rhyme or reason, common sense and simple logic would require them to get down to diplomatic negotiations. They say neither side can win, then what are they waiting for, until there is nothing but ruins left of Ukraine? Is that it? Only evil, deranged people can act like that. They are war criminals.
Nothing they say makes sense, incoherent, embecile people. They must like killing people including toddlers. They make one want to puke.
As if they ever pushed Ukrainians to negotiate. By all accounts the neocons stopped any negotiations. That alone is proof that Biden does not really understand what Armageddon would be like. If he did, he would push for a diplomatic settlement knowing that neither side can win. Are Biden and his neocon retards so deranged they don’t understand that to prevent an Armageddon DIPLOMACY and NEGOTIATIONS is the only way out?
But Biden and the neocons are liars, they believe their own lies.
POLARIS 21, November 18 to December 3, 2021, a NATO exercise in the area west of the island of Corsica, between France and Spain. Journalists now have data related to the exercise which was advanced NATO preparation to start an armed conflict with the Russian Federation.
The NATO coalition would form and send an aircraft carrier strike group led by the Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier to attack the Russian forces halting an expected Russian defense of the Donbass in Ukraine.
POLARIS 2021 was also a demonstration of NATO support for the coup imposed Nazi’s in Kyiv to start hostilities with the Donbass which would provide an excuse for NATO to intervene, NATO was setting up an attack on Russia.
The start of the Special Military Operation of the RF Armed Forces in Ukraine became the only possible response to the inevitable aggression of NATO. It was this intervention that is responsible for why there was not and will not be a conflict between Russia and NATO. A Third World War was prevented by the Russian special operation in Ukraine.