President Trump surprised many on Monday when he announced his willingness to meet with Iranian President Hassan Rouhani “without preconditions.” Within less than a day, the administration had already started attaching substantial preconditions to the offer.
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, early on Tuesday, began establishing preconditions, saying that Iran needed to commit to “fundamental changes to how they treat their own people, reduce their malign behavior, agree that it’s worthwhile to enter into a nuclear agreement that actually prevents proliferation.”
These preconditions almost certainly make the offer impossible, as the US treats Iranian foreign policy as necessarily “malign behavior,” and Iran is neither going to agree to deeper isolation, nor to the need for another nuclear deal while still trying to preserve the one the already signed, and which the US dishonored earlier this year.
Iranian officials were skeptical of this proposal from the moment Trump made it, and senior Iranian officials issued a statement saying they considered the offer of talks ‘worthless,” as Trump’s words contradicted his actions.
Some Iranian civilians were reportedly calling for Iran to accept the unconditional talks, seeing it as an opportunity. With all the conditions subsequently added, however, it’s likely that the Iranian government’s reticence will seem more well-founded to a public eager for a diplomatic path to normalization.
The quick sequence of events leaves open the question of whether Trump’s offer was ever intended to be taken seriously at all. Rather, it appears to have just set the stage for another round of Pompeo reiterating his anti-Iran talking points from recent speeches, only now couching them as demands.
“….fundamental changes to how they treat their own people, reduce their malign behavior…”
by these two standards, Saudi Arabia should be at the top of the “regime change” list for the USA, the EU and the world
Israel should be at the top of this list. based on their undeclared nuclear weapons and human rights violations and Geneva Conventions violations.
I wholeheartedly agree, Bob, Israel should be on top of this list, followed by Saudi Arabia, the reason, as you said, is based on their undeclared nuclear weapons, human rights violations and said Geneva Conventions violations.
I also wholeheartedly agree with you, Solly, it’s indeed Israel Uber Alles.
and where to we come on that list…?
We don’t have any problem backing thugs when it fits our needs. Ooops, I mean Israel’s needs.
Israel is right up there on that list, too, Michael.
no Israel is not
As the IDF shoots another child in the head.
No, it’s not: it’s in a class all to itself as the only country in the world officially practicing the crime of Apartheid.
Israel uber alles.
Make Israel Greater Again! – MIGA
Are the Saudis developing nuclear capabilities and ICBM’s, no.
The difference.
How do you know? Did Israel?
If you have proof of that, I’m sure the world community would like to know and make the necessary arrangements to stop it.
Re. Israel, it’s hard to change what has already happened.
but at least they are not threatening to annihilate other countries with it.
Leading your people to chant “Death to Israel”, does have consequences.
Because only the newly declared theocracy has the right to have nukes and ICBM’s.
Do you want nuclear proliferation or not? Yes or no.
No. So when does Israel give up her nukes so we can have a nuke free ME? The question should be posed to you Israeli firsters.
When Pakistan gives up theirs,
we can talk about Israel following suit.
Ya see, neither Pakistan nor Israel are running around threatening other countries like Iran does.
I would think bombing raids in Syria by Israel count as threatening behavior to other countries. While Iran’s threats consist of responding to threats that had been made towards them.
Iran is encroaching on Israel territory with their adventurism in Syria.
I would expect Iran to do the same —IF—Israel suddenly entered Iraq
(ostensibly to help them) but were in fact encroaching on Iran.
Iran was invited. If Iraq invited Israel, they’d have a right to be there. Encroaching is more like what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.
The Palestinians have Gaza, no encroachment,
the West Bank is another story.
But what you are missing is Iran is USING it’s invitation to close in on the Israeli border, THAT will get you trouble,
just as if the rolls were reversed and Israel used the EXCUSE to get closer to the Iranian border.
If Iran, the country you defend the most,
stayed away from the Israeli border,
there wouldn’t be any trouble.
But … they don’t.
Israel wants Iran out of Syria. Period. I’m not missing anything.
If Iran was violating International law then I’d say they shouldn’t be allowed in Syria. And again, if Iraq invited Israel into their country I’d expect International law to be recognized in that scenario also. I really don’t how that is defending Iran.
You and the dictators, always,
Assad and the Khomeini are very pleased with their propaganda efforts.
Israel does not want Iran anywhere near their borders and will continue to punch their lights out for testing them, as they should.
Again, how am I defending Iran if all I want is for all parties to recognize and abide by International law? Is that stale s**t all you have when you can’t address what other people say?
There is no violation of international law if the US decides to withdraw from the JCPOA.
Man, you have to stay focused. We were talking about sovereign countries having the right to invite foreign militaries into their countries. Iran is in Syria by invitation not invasion(like us).
All well and good
but if Iran uses the opportunity to encroach on the Israeli border they have been warned.
Focus on that.
You really do have to get the last word in. Seek help.
Repetition is the only way to penetrate a millennial melon brain.
Iran is making preparations (in Syria) against Israel and Israel isn’t going to tolerate it. it is very simple.
Repetition is the only way to penetrate a millennial melon brain.
Iran is making preparations (in Syria) against Israel and Israel isn’t going to tolerate it. it is very simple.
“Iran is encroaching on Israel territory with their adventurism in Syria.”
When did Syria become Israeli territory?
Syria is a buffer state between Iran and Israel.
Hiding behind helping Assad had better not include crowding the Israeli border.
I would expect the same from Iran if Israel was in Iraq on some pretext and maneuvering closer to Iran’s border. Iran is also threatening from their Lebanon border. Threats get dealt with.
Oh, really, Hasbara troll? Yes, stokr, I’m calling you out as Israel’s tool; both Pakistan and India have nukes, and they’re NOT in the Middle East; so, not only are you Israel’s turn, but your knowledge of geography is lacking, You still won’t admit that Israel has nukes; whereas, Iran transformed its nuclear program into a peaceful one at least a decade ago, after both Ayatollah Khomeini and Ayatollah Khameini issued religious decrees (Fatwas) against the development, procurement and use of nukes , declaring these weapons are banned in the precepts of Islam.
The only country to ever use nukes in wartime is the US, when two A-bombs were dropped on Japan, one on Hiroshima and the other on Nagasaki, on August 6 and 9, 1945, respectively. So who was dubbed the Father of the A-Bomb? It was Robert Oppenheimer, an atheist Jew.
Now he will tell you that you are vouching for the brutal, theocratic dictatorship of Iran. Wait for it.
Iran and North Korea know that without nukes the US will either overtly or covertly take over their country. Maybe the US should be the first to disarm. Israel should be sanctioned for violating the NPT.
What about Pakistan?
NK is in negotiations to end their program,
you are wrong.
And Iran wants to be a rogue state sponsor of terror.
Each of those countries made their own choices.
Iran is the only one threatening to destroy other countries,
that is the difference.
What of Pakistan? Both they and India have nukes and are signatories to the NNPT so far as I know. Iran doesn’t have nukes and hasn’t threatened to destroy anyone. You’ve been listening to too much Israeli propaganda. Besides if Iran can’t have nukes because they are not signatories to the NNPT Israel can’t have them either. Sauce for the goose… Oh, and by the way, North Korea hasn’t signed any agreement yet, nor are they likely to if the US continues to strong arm them.
Neither India or Pakistan (or Israel) have signed the NPT.
Iran doesn’t have nukes, but they are working to get them.
Iran incites it’s people with “death to America and Israel” slogans
that’s a fact not propaganda. That type of STATE sponsors belligerence has consequences.
Israel, Pakistan and India are not threatening other nations,
Iran is,
a “sauce” very different than the others.
If and when NK does sign an agreement it will be PRECISELY because because the US strong-armed them. WHY would they if they were not pushed to do so?
You are naive.
dont bring Pakistan or India into it. They are not attacking any neighboring country .
They refuse to join the NPT, they like Israel are in it.
Israel is attacking Iranian encroachments in Syria, they were warned.
Wrong again – Israel isn’t in it.
Typo, all three, Pakistan, India AND Israel are NOT in it.
So why is it that ONLY Israel gets criticized for NOT being in it.
Because India and Pakistan don’t stamp their feet and demand that nobody ELSE get what they already have, like Israel does.
Iran consistently alleges they with destroy Israel when they get them.
I’d say any nation under that kind of threat would do the same.
“Iran doesn’t have nukes, but they are working to get them.”
Not according to either the US or Israelil intelligence agencies.
Not according to the Iranians.
Not according to the IAEA.
Basically, not according to anyone who might have the slightest fucking idea what they’re talking about.
At this time no, BUT when the time limits expire, they are ready to roll.
WHY help a terror sponsoring state buy time, increase their economic base, and threaten regional stability? It’s just stupid.
Same answer over and over. Nikki would be proud.
The correct answer is always the same.
Your disagreement would make the Iranian regime proud.
I can see your geo-politics need some work. Rational states negotiate. You know give and take. Let’s make a deal? The US deal is the Nikita Khrushchev school of diplomacy, “We will bury you!” You also continue to conveniently ignore Israel. They are in the process of genociding an entire people and have more nukes than Germany, France and Britain put together. Get off Iran’s case. If we leave them alone what are they going to do? Build a bomb to annihilate themselves? They know if they ever use one they will be a smoking hole in the sand and they are not fanatic or stupid, which is more than I can say about a lot of Americans when it comes to ME politics. Read up on what the senior retired diplomats and intelligence professionals have to say about Iran. I’ll bet you believed Colin Powell about yellow cake uranium too, huh?
The Us”s deal is the 0bama “deal” stinks, so we have withdrawn.
That said Trump has offered talks without preconditions,
nothing like Nikita.
I’m not “ignoring” Israel.
Gazans wanted to go their own way, Israel agreed. Now they are ruled by Hamas and want to attack the border causing Israel to respond. You obviously support the terror organization over respecting borders.
I’m not on Iran’s case but feel no need to continue with the bull-shiite “deal”. If they don’t like US sanctions they had better join the civilized world and get along with their neighbors. Why do we have to tolerate and support them while they continue to destabilize the region? Ridiculous.
They have nuclear ambitions to dominate the entire ME, you apparently are OK with Iranian nuclear proliferation that will result in similar efforts by Turkey, Saudi and Egypt, so naive.
“Senior retired ‘diplomats’ and ‘intelligence’ professionals” all got us into this mess! Doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result are people like you.
“The Us”s deal is the 0bama ‘deal’ stinks”
Agreed, it stinks.
Under it, the Iranians gave up activities they were perfectly entitled to pursue under their NPT obligations so that the US could pretend it was “stopping Iran from getting nuclear weapons,” in return for which they got back some of the money the US stole from them nearly 40 years ago.
The real key is what else was at play: The ability to trade more freely on the world market, which would likely have resulted in removal of the theocratic regime. Apparently the regime was willing to risk that, but the US wasn’t. The theocratic regime is too useful as a hobgoblin to justify the insanely wasteful US “defense” budget and aid to Israel versus a “threat” that must never, ever, ever be allowed to disappear.
Was NK “too useful as a hobgoblin”
before Kim came to the negotiating table?
Dictatorships don’t behave unless they are not pressured.
Iran wants to be a belligerent, destabilizing force in the region, fine,
but there are consequences, such as US sanctions.
Congratulations! You didn’t ignore Israel in this rant. You used the name. You blame Iran for wishing to develop a nuclear weapon so they can become a regional hegemon, but fail to acknowledge there is one already there. Your refusal to acknowledge the 8oo pound very ugly gorilla in the room (Israel) proves you are shilling for them and not doing a very good job at it. If you get paid for this drivel your employer needs to up his standards. The amount of fact and history you ignore in favor of slander and hyperbole is nauseating. Go study some history. Israel ignoring their commitment to the “right to return” of Palestinians, hijacking ships in international waters, shooting medics and unarmed civilians certainly doesn’t stand any level of scrutiny and your attempting to blame Iran for regional troubles is laughable. You are beneath contempt and I am done with this waste of time. Schlemiel.
Any nation under attack from homicidal Muslims has the right to defend themselves. Anytime one of your infidel hating countries wishes to talk peace the world including Israel will accommodate them.
Witness, Egypt, Jordan and the Saudis, no war, no conflicts, peace.
So until then,
the Palestinians and Iran who are asking for it
will continue to get their azzes kicked and whine all day
to brainwashed millennials for sympathy.
“And Iran wants to be a rogue state sponsor of terror” The neocons just never tire of this bulls**t.
Trump threatened to destroy NK and Iran in his first 18 months in office.
Iran is a state sponsor of terror according to the US govt under 0bama, Bush and Clinton.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism
Trump did threaten to destroy NK and Iran—-IF—-they attack us or our allies.
Once again, you side with the dictators,
the people in those countries would despise you.
I would have been embarrassed to type that. Wow, our government says Iran is a state sponsor of terror. It MUST be true. Nikki Haley and John Bolton say the same thing. It’s easy to do if you just label anyone antagonistic towards Israel as terror groups.
North Korea or Iran didn’t threatened us until they themselves were threatened by us.
Saying they aren’t a state sponsor of terror isn’t “siding” with them and I could care less if they despise me. The state sponsor of terror bulls**t is just a continuous talking point of the neocons to get us into a war. Iran has an oppressive government but they are not a state sponsor of terror. They are also very containable and not worth going to war with to please Israel. This is Iraq all over again.
ALL————-of the previous presidents agreed, they sponsor terror,
you should be embarrassed to miss the obvious.
NK started shooting missile over Japan and threaten Guam,
Trump called their bluff,
and now we are in talks, that’s how the world works.
And AGAIN,
you vouch for the most malignant monster regimes on the planet,
NK and Iran!
By saying ALL, do you think that changes anything? You’re still taking the word of a government who is, and has been, in bed with the Saudis. You remember the Saudis, they had 15 of the 19 hijackers and they were bankrolling ISIS. Oh, and your fellow realist neocons, Nikki Haley and John Bolton, agree with you. So I guess that makes us sponsors of state sponsors of terror.
I said NK didn’t threaten us until they were threaten by us. Nothing to do with NK shooting missiles over Japan.
I see you have the same response to others with your ridiculous insistence that anyone who doesn’t agree with your neocon talking points is “vouching” for Iran or NK.
Every administration agrees with me re. Iran, not you.
The Saudis have been worse, but under new leadership appear to be changing, will will see.
We didn’t threaten NK untill they started firing ICBM’s across the Pacific, Japan and calling out Guam. But I know you have a soft spot for maniacal,
homicidal, despots, so there is that.
You, Kim, and the Khomeini
vs.
me, Haley and Bolton,
I’ll take that every time.
“We didn’t threaten NK untill they started firing ICBM’s across the Pacific, Japan and calling out Guam.”
If by “we” you mean the US, the US has been threatening North Korea for 68 years.
68 years?
That would sound like 68 years of empty threats, or no threats.
We didn’t start shooting missiles over NK, they started that.
I know they agree with you and you agree with them, that was my point. The same people that lied us into war with Iraq are trying to do the same with Iran and you’re completely oblivious to that fact. And right, the Saudis are on the verge of having a Jeffersonian democracy. God, you’re a tool.
We’ve been threatening North Korea for 67 years. It didn’t start with Trump, he just added his own brand of belligerence.
I don’t back Kim or Khomeini and have repeatedly said both their governments were oppressive. You on the other hand have said that you, Nikki and John live in the same reality. That, of course, being the neocon reality.
There will be no war with Iran, that’s the scare tactic you and your friends have created.
We don’t want or need a war with them, we just have to wait them out,
just the way we did with NK, so simple.
I can stand the Saudis, but you play the hand you are dealt.
In the moment, this new guy is helping. I’ll stick with him, UNTIL he isn’t helping.
It’s not a matter of allegiance,
it’s a matter of their performance re. our goals.
WOW, you called out NK and Iran as “oppressive”, really strong language, ya think.
H3ll the 0bama administration was “oppressive”!
NK and Iran are both diabolical,
but you go ahead with your sugar-coated denunciation.
I didn’t create the tactic, It’s already happened with Iraq. The scenarios are eerily the same. Go ahead and ignore it until we’re neck deep in another quagmire.
You talk as if it’s necessary to be in bed with the Saudis when we should be extracting ourselves from the entire region. But since the Saudis are playing nice with Israel you see them as “helping”. You’re like all good neocons, Israel comes first.
You said I “vouch” for the governments of NK and Iran and I said they were oppressive. I don’t need to use any other adjectives to describe them. Oppressive covers it. And true, the Obama administration was oppressive just like the Trump administration and the Bush administration and every administration that preceded them.
You, once again are wrong about Iran, NK is the model being followed.
Saudis are changing their ways (for now) they are a counter to Iran and an ally of Egypt. it’s smart to use them.
The NK and Iran are diabolically despotic, they are indefensible.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin
Netanyahu said the European Union would not survive if it didn’t change its
stance on Israel, the Guardian reported
Tuesday.
“I
think Europe has to decide if it wants to live and thrive or if it
wants to shrivel and disappear,” reporters overheard Netanyahu saying at a
meeting of Eastern European leaders in Budapest.
https://www.politico.eu/article/netanyahu-eu-will-shrivel-and-disappear-if-no-change-in-attitude-toward-israel/
The prime minister then begins to speak about the Iranian
regime — “not the Iranian people, I have nothing against them” — before he is
interrupted by an unidentified person off-screen who says, “It will disappear
with the help of God.”
“You said it. From your mouth to God,” Netanyahu says in
response as the clip ends. https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-recording-netanyahu-boasts-israel-convinced-trump-to-quit-iran-nuclear-deal/
Harboring ill feelings against those who announce they want to exterminate you is obviously understandable.
Where is a peace overture from Iran, name one.
You side with the homicidal, theocratic, dictatorship that
the Iranian people have come to despise.
Duly noted.
Damn, you use the same bulls**t tactics with everyone. They must side with the “homicidal, theocratic dictatorship” if they utter any facts about the newly declared theocracy.
You dodge the obvious truth,
Iran is a homicidal, theocratic, dictatorship,
and no amount of whining or deflection can change that.
Your hate for Israel causes your blindness.
Now you’re actually getting to be humorous. Like a little child who can’t get his way and just keeps repeating the same thing over and over until mommy gives in.
You just did, what you accused me of doing, facepalm.
How so? Have I said I find you to be humorous or childlike before?
US government works for Israel .
“Netanyahu does not explain in the video aired by Kan how he convinced Trump to exit the deal-https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-recording-netanyahu-boasts-israel-convinced-trump-to-quit-iran-nuclear-deal/”
Israel tells and USA obliges . MEK is supported and nurtured by Israel USA follows suit.
You support a brutal, theocratic, dictatorship, sworn to “Death to America”.
The fact that US and Israeli interests (survival)
frequently converge is no surprise to most.
The Saudis are not “developing” missiles or bombs because they already have them.
They have a missile base already, which they claim is conventional only.
They paid for the Pakistani nuclear program, the “Islamic Bomb” and it would be absurd to think they’d go without the moment they wanted to take delivery.
All you lack is proof,
why wouldn’t the UN, Iran, etc. be exposing your conspiracy.
There is plenty of proof from Iran re. what there intentions are,
and they aren’t pretty.
Who says the Iranians are? They gave up most of their uranium and most of their production capacity as a result of the “bad deal” Secondly the official US National Intelligence estimate on the Iranian nuclear program is that their isn’t one.
So it is hysterical news media vs 17 US intelligence agencies.
We cannot inspect military bases,
there are time limitations in the so-called agreement allowing them to proceed in developing nukes,
they continue to fund and supply terror groups and
are a destabilizing element in the ME.
Why should we help them?
We don’t have to “help them” but our trashing of this agreement has driven a wedge between us and the Europeans, driving them closer to Russia and China for instance. Is that a good move? What Iranian terror group is targeting the USA? Compare that threat level to ISIS and Al-qaida which are funded by our pals the Saudis (via via) In 10 years the agreement would have run out, to view it as a starting pistol isn’t correct it is one possible outcome but by no means certain. By trashing the agreement Trump has moved the start date (in your mind) to today. It seems the Iranians are holding to the agreement for the time being.
The Euros can go their own way,
we should not have to provide for their defense forever. Screw ’em.
Iran is a destabilizer
in the ME, their adventures in Syria (Gaza, and Lebanon) threaten Israel and secure Assad, no doubt you “think’ that’s all good.
The new Saudi leader seems to be breaking those old alliances, we shall see. Iran, not so much.
The “agreement” was imbecilic, dumping it clears the decks for real progress and a real agreement once the Iranians figure out what kind of leadership they need. They can “hold” to the agreement until h3ll freezes over, but it won’t be with the help of the US economy.
Well the big destabilizer in the ME is the good old USofA . Things were pretty stable until we started to smash. Are you suggesting that the relationship with Israel, a tiny country with 7 million or so is more important that our relationship with Europe a region with 400 million or so and an economy in aggregate as large as our own? If one of those needs to be thrown under the bus from an American perspective I would say it is Israel.
The Euros are parasites, we don’t need them, they need us.
Re. Israel, we have a common enemy, Muslim extremists, that’s all.
Where we can help each other against the lunatics of islam,
so be it.
I oppose “aid” to Israel (actually to anybody)
but would SELL them all the arms they can BUY.
What do you think that “aid” consists of? Or any of the “aid” we provide Egypt or the Saudis? Even Israel has to “BUY” our weapons with the $3.8 billion a year they receive.
I oppose “aid” to any country, including Israel.
You JUST said we should sell Israel all the arms they can buy. What do you think that $3.8 billion a year(aid) is spent on?
Man, you focus,
NO AID (as in giving them money) however,
SELLING them weapons (paid for with THEIR own money) is just dandy.
What do you think “aid” is? They use their “aid” to buy our weapons. What do you think Israel does with that $3.8 billion a year?
Foreign aid is MONEY.
I do not support giving Israel foreign aid (MONEY).
However, if they want to spend their (MONEY) defense dollars on US weapons, that is fine.
No sweetheart deals,
no discounts,
no weapons in lieu of foreign aid money.
How thick can you get?
They’re obligated to spend it on US weapons.
I’m done with you. You are a brain dead neocon who isn’t worth talking to. All the others you argue with are able to tune you out after a certain point, like they would a whiney little child, but I just couldn’t seem to follow their lead. I will now join them.
Irrelevant, I would GIVE them nothing.
I see Tom Knapp just below your rely, so they all haven’t left,
just the ones who can’t keep up, adios.
Adelson or Netinyahu might have stared at Trump
Hardly a joke. A recent article by Trita Parsi (sorry not sure where) listed many of the former, MUCH better for the USA agreements that Iran offered from 2003 but which the USA disdained, so Iran went ahead and increased its preparedness for resistance.
The Trump admin is a violent schizophrenic… there is no way for Iran to engage constructively with a party that can’t see reality, can’t hold a consistent position and is itching to attack at the slightest pretense.
Israel did not approve!
I do not see how any party would agree to talk or agree with the us as long as its “negotiation strategy” is to demand the max compromises prior to talks and the complete domination of the admin/congress by israel and the neo cons.
This administration is just flat out toxic. They’re radioactive.
Maybe Trump will gain some brownie points if he agrees to allow Iranian inspection teams into the US to watch us dismantle our own nuclear weapons. One of the basic things I was taught in the Marines was to ‘lead by example’- but if we aren’t willing to dismantle our nukes, why on earth should any other nation do it?
Mark Twain said “patriotism is loving your country and distrusting your government.” Imagine if Washington had to abide by the same preconditions they try to foist on everyone else?
Hard to believe it was less than two years ago that Trump was railing against “stupid and costly interventions” in foreign countries. Listen, if the military industrial complex oligarchy wants to make a fortune off war, why not just cut them a trillion-dollar check and skip the wars? It would be a lot cheaper in the long run.