On Tuesday, a member of Ukraine’s parliament told The New York Times that Ukraine had launched strikes on Russian territory using US-provided HIMARS rocket systems after President Biden lifted restrictions on Kyiv’s use of the weapons.
Yehor Chernev, the deputy chairman of the Ukrainian parliament’s committee on national security, defense, and intelligence, claimed the strikes destroyed S-300 and S-400 missile systems about 20 miles inside Russia’s Belgorod Oblast.
Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk also hinted that Ukraine hit Russian territory with Western-provided weapons. In a now-deleted post on Telegram, Vereshchuk shared a picture of a burning S-300 system and said, “It’s burning well. This is a Russian S-300. On Russian territory. The first days after permission to use Western weapons on the enemy’s territory.”
President Biden gave Ukraine the green light to hit Russian territory with US-provided missiles last week, marking a significant escalation of the proxy war. If Chernev and Vereshchuk’s claims are true, the strikes risk a major response from Russia.
NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg and other Western officials have shrugged off the risk of escalation, but Russian officials continue to issue warnings. On Monday, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov urged the US to heed President Vladimir Putin’s warning against NATO-supported strikes inside Russia.
“I would like to caution American officials against miscalculations which may have fatal consequences. For some unknown reason, they underestimate the seriousness of the rebuff they may receive,” Ryabkov said.
…so any takers on when tactical nukes will be used? maybe guided by AI? The ante keeps getting upped…like Robert Johnson, famously, made deal with devil at the crossroads…of course he just lost his soul for music…
Ray McGovern thinks tactical nukes could be used before the election in order to stave off a defeat in Ukraine. Ray McGovern is not infallible. He didn't think Putin would invade Ukraine. But McGovern is pretty good.
I can't believe that anybody would be that stupid. Thus, my thinking is like a second marriage in that it represents the triumph of hope over experience.
There is nothing particular stupid in using the tactical nukes when it is necessary for the defense.
“There is nothing particular stupid in using the tactical nukes when it is necessary for the defense.”
One form of stupidity is concentrating on one thing without considering context. Necessary for who? In defense of what?
If Ukraine had nuclear weapons, they would be sorely tempted to use them in order to stave off defeat. But Ukraine does not have nuclear weapons.
What we are talking about here is the Yankee Empire using nuclear weapons in order to defend Ukraine. Such as use of nuclear weapons risks escalation up to and including thermonuclear Armageddon. Ukraine is not a vital interest for the Yankee Empire, unless you consider every square inch of the planet to be a vital interest of the Yankee Empire.
Even in terms of geopolitical maneuvering, risking disaster for small gains is just effing stupid.
I am not quite sure what you are talking about. There is a difference between using the nukes against a country not armed with nukes, and using nukes against a country not only armed with nukes but also capable to deliver them with 100% guarantee to the targets. That's why it is unlikely that US and Russia will start to use nukes against each other but it is very much likely that in case of further escalation, Russia would use them against NATO countries not armed with nukes. The best candidate for this is, of course, Poland, namely, the main logistic center Rzeszow. Also the tactic nukes could be used in western Ukrainian military training ground Yavoriv, though it is less likely scenario. But again: it is possible only in case of direct massive involvement of NATO troops in the war.
What is stupid is the U.S. and U.K. stopping peace two years ago. More so when the U.S. did not take seriously Russia's overtures for a peaceful solution were presented December, 2021. But hey, there was/is a lot of money to be made by the MIC.
Peace and prosperity in continental Europe never was a goal of US and UK leaderships. Particular they hate the idea of economic cooperation between Germany and Russia, and in general: between Central Europe and Russia. American imperialists considered economic integration of Central Europe with Russia as the greatest challenge to their empire. They tried so hard to prevent it that they missed the other even greater danger to their hegemony: Russia/China alliance.
Over the last quarter century, the US spent Trillions of dollars, killed hundreds of thousands or even millions of innocent people, got more than 5,000 of it's military people killed and accomplished less than NOTHING.
Care to rethink how stupid rulers can be?
The ultimate, ironic tragedy will be that the next World War will be so massively destructive, so sudden, and so closely managed by authoritarian elites, that we (read : future generations that survive) will probably never actually know the true sequence of events and commands that led to the unthinkable.
We'll be aware of simultaneous nuclear strikes in major cities and upon military targets; then the dark shades of Propaganda and State Security will drop, and no-one will know exactly who did what to whom, when, or worse, why. Everything will be either Officially Sanctioned News permitted to be shared, or Misinformation to be deleted and prohibited.
I am hopeful this site will keep us informed for as long as it can.
I don't trust anyone else.
To both, argument and tone, "Amen".
There won't be any news. Russian cities will be gone. US and European military sites will be gone.
Nuclear winter will replace global heating by oil corporations.
Do you mean US and European cities will survive a big nuclear war? Probably you are watching too much of the corporate TV nonsense.
Russians and Chinese will strike military targets in the vain attempt of survival. US and European terrorists target cities.
I have not watched television for most of my life.
Nuclear winter will wipe out populations in US cities; Direct hits are not required.
Russia has enough of nukes for all targets, including, of course, Pentagon which, as we know, is about a couple of miles from Washington center.
US weapons used on Russian soil. Everyone look out their windows. Anyone get nuked yet?
And since it hasn't happened, it couldn't happen. Great logic. But never mind about the Ukrainians that will die when Russia retaliates. They're expendable.
Russia RETALIATES!?! WTF have they been doing? They’ve BEEN killing Ukrainians. Time for them to die.
And you don't think they'll respond to this particular attack? And when they do, would it have happened if that attack inside Russian territory didn't happen? I know you're not that dense.
Russia will continue to do the same s**t they’ve been doing. Nothing more, nothing less.
And what they've done in the past is retaliate for attacks they consider to be an escalation. You can ignore them if you like but they happened.
No. They’ve continued their attempt to conquer. You seem to want to ignore THAT.
You've lost me. I don't know what you're saying.
You said "concur" before you edited. And whether what you say is true or not doesn't change my point. They've retaliated for specific escalations like the bombing of the Kerch bridge. So, they went beyond their normal "attempt to conquer" which has resulted in more unnecessary deaths and loss of infrastructure that wouldn't have happened otherwise.
I did; and I fixed it but you still can’t see what’s actually happening.
Yes, you fixed it but didn't respond to my comment asking you what you meant by "concur". Classy. But anyway, I see what's happening quite well. I gave you an example, the Kerch bridge bombing, but as usual you ignore things that don't fit your idiotic narrative.
Acts during war are what they are. Russia wanted to conquer Ukraine but couldn’t. Now they (and you) have moved the goalposts.
We were talking about Russia retaliating for attacks such as when US weapons are being used on their territory. Or like they did when the Kerch bridge was bombed. I didn't move any goalposts. You just changed the subject entirely. The acts of war by Russia have increased when Russia perceived it to be an escalation. The only thing debatable about that is Russia's perception. Otherwise, it's just flat ass a fact.
well. Ukraine first started killing Crimeans who consider themselves Russian. so yes, i would say that Russia retaliated.
not to mention the number of illegal bioweapon labs that uncle sam had set up in Ukraine that were eliminated by Russia.
again, that sounds like retaliation to me.
Yes, Russian retaliation is quite successful. Since 2014 far-right coup, five Ukrainian regions became Russian, and it is not yet the end of the story. US, as global empire, became much weaker too.
Russia invaded Ukraine. Can’t call that retaliation, tankie.
Not so. Invasion is the wrong word, totally.
A post coup civil war was raging in the Ukraine. Armies of Ukraine went home to protect their families in Eastern Ukraine; they took personal and heavy weapons home.
US financed weaponry began to surpass the strength of regions seeking semi autonomy and the freedom to speak their native language, Russian.
The civil war turned into US weapons against a relatively rural area. Russia intervened to stop a genocide funded by the US.
Does that playbook seem familiar?
I. N. V. A. S. I. O. N.
A retaliation for 30+ years of provocations. So, sure you can call it a retaliation. The two aren't mutually exclusive
No. You can’t.
Then you don't know what retaliate means.
I do. And it’s not retaliation.
You obviously don't. Unless of course you ignore what happened after the cold war ended.
We have been so sure that the oceans would protect us from attacks. At the end of WWII, we were unscathed. European cities were in ruins. The Red Army, the citizens of the Soviet Union, combined, lost 20 million defeating the Wehrmacht. That lovely show on June 5, 1945, where my father was on that date, did not lead to the defeat of NAZI Germany, as it has been promoted in lovely movies. Yes, we came out of that war with a monstrous war machine. General Motors made so much money that the CEO said we should maintain a war economy. We basically told the rest of the world that we make the rules, we have the bomb, and we know how to use, which we did (twice) it on a defeated country that had been negotiating to end the war in the pacific. So cock sure of our superiority for so many years, invading, fomenting coups, killing many in other countries, arming very bad actors to serve our needs. We, the United States of Amnesia, is a nation at constant war ruling the processes and people in D.C.
Yet.
Only an idiot dismisses the likelihood of nuclear war in this conflict.
Only an idiot would believe Putin would retaliate against the West.
A very small atom bomb in the middle of the pentagon would minimize civilian casualties. People would be wiae to begin moving away from that area.
Russian and Chinese leadership know that dust thrown up by their defensive strikes against barbaric western terrorists will lead to human extinction even if only half their defensive atom bomb counter blows are able to launch..
All Russian nuclear arsenal will be used in case of a big nuclear war, including, of course, Poseidon torpedo which is capable of creating a radioactive tsunami 500 m high. Neither New York, nor London has any chance to survive such an attack. Those modern Russian weapons were specifically designated to make anti-missile shields useless.
Particularly the UNIPARTY in D.C. Peace is a foreign word. War, blood, dead bodies, dominance rules.
Huh…. Rather than history being written by the victors….. in this case, history would be written by the survivors.
There will be no one to write or read history. Dust thrown up by nuclear war creates nuclear winter.
Even if nuclear winter lasts only ten years, there will most likely be no people left on Earth.
"future generations that survive": there likely won't be due to nuclear winter.
The nuclear winter will pass and people go out from the safety of their bunkers to the surface of Earth. It looks, Chinese are prepared the best for such a scenario.
I predict the surviving USA citizens will dispose of what is left of any politicians and their stooges and followers and any 3 letter agency members. This is why the Democrats are pushing so hard to disarm the public and nullify the 2nd.
Must be something in the water in DC…
Looks like a canteen truck carrying Borscht.
right? that could be a photo of anything anywhere anytime
Thomas Massie
@RepThomasMassie
I don’t think the country is fixable but I’m here in case it is.
8:25 AM · Jun 4, 2024·
1.6M Views
Massie is one of the very few Congress persons that has both intelligence and integrity. I don't think the country is fixable either. But I continue to take large doses of hopium to get by even though NONE of the potential next presidents are against war.
President Trump is running on his record (2017-2021) where we didn’t get involved in any new stupid wars.
“We will expel the Warmongers!” —–Donald Trump
But he did partake in the old wars. And in those old ones he lessened the rules of engagement to make killing easier. Not to mention the sanctions. So, Trump should find something else to run on besides his "record" because that would be a record of belligerence equal to or exceeding that of his predecessors.
Rhetoric is cheap. Trump didn’t “expel the war mongers”. In fact he brought them into his administration. Bolton, Haskel, Pompao, McMasters and others. He sent lethal arms to Ukraine . Canceled the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty.
Trump MAY be a better “choice” than Biden, but that is “damning with faint praise”.
look at that photo = if that was an s-300 missile set-up then all of it's missiles would have exploded making a huge fireball and obliterating the truck and the trailer and whatever else in the vicinity. check out the grass around it = not even scorched.
Still American weapons are quite capable of hitting targets inside Russia. We are witnessing an escalation. The outcome is unpredictable but it is getting to be interesting.
Interesting ? Nah not at all. Just another mass extinction event on Earth. This one caused by a dumb ape that evolved a bigger and more dangerous brain than other primates.
Sad, isn't it
China should blockade Kinmen island and allow US troops to evacuate to a neutral country. Kinmen County is about 2 miles off the Chinese mainland. Russia should send advanced missiles to Yemen and Venezuela.
Syria needs a robust air defense system.
Blown up a lot of S-300 rigs, have ya?
It is not S-300 on the picture. There are no missiles. What rigs? Without missiles it is just a truck.
I was replying to spy on this, who seems to have vast knowledge of the secondary explosion characteristics of S-300 missile rigs destroyed in place. I'm just wondering where he got that vast knowledge.
Anyone can find in YouTube videos and see what happens when S-300 is hit, for example, by Lancet (12 kilo explosives). Besides, the truck is not fit for launching S-300.
It does look like a decoy. Very probable.
The video says it were two Ukrainian S-300 launchers destroyed by Russian Lancet.
By the way, only Russians have Lancets.
Ahhh…here you go. So satisfying!
https://theaviationist.com/2024/05/24/ukraine-destroys-s-400-using-atacms/
The Iranians claim they've started manufacturing their own version.
Iranians are very good at manufacturing such kind of things. Thanks to Iran, Houthis are also not so defenseless.
So, after recognizing it were Ukrainian S-300 which were destroyed, you decided to delete the video.
Correct. I was intending to use a video example about the size of a real missile system exploding but it was a Ukrainian S-300 so I didn’t want to use an example the defenders being hit. (Do you believe I think Ukrainian equipment has not been blown up at some point?) Now, if I find a video of the Russian (invaders) S-300 blowing up, I’ll certainly post it
so. how would the US rocket have achieved such a precision hit on that so-called missile launcher truck? i can only guess that a drone with a laser or a man on the ground with a laser would have to point at it and click, sending a signal back to the US rocket launcher?
My military career ended almost 30 years ago. But yes, back then, you'd normally have someone/something on the ground, or in the air, painting the target with a laser designator.
I'm not sure how much the tech has advanced, but in 1991 I saw a series of reinforced concrete aircraft bunkers in Kuwait, each of which had been pierced by a missile in exactly the same place on each one. I didn't have a measuring tape on me, but I'd be surprised if the difference in targeting accuracy varied by as much as a foot.
As to whether that was actually an S-300 platform of some kind, I don't claim to know. Nor do I claim to know what kind of secondary explosions one would expect from any particular impact/fire. I just thought it odd that YOU seem to know those things.
But we're supposed to take your claims here at face value?
You’re supposed to do whatever you like. I don’t give a damn whether you “take” my claims at all, at “face value” or otherwise.
i was assuming that if a rocket hit a whole bank of actual missiles it would result in a bigger explosion than is evidenced in that photo
Of course it would. As I mentioned already, there are videos in YouTube showing what happens when Lancet (quite a small missile) hits S-300 missiles.
A truck on fire. No scorched grass. No subsequent explosions. What a clean hit! Wow!
i know absolutely nothing about military hardware.
but i am familiar with bogus phony footage and photos ala 9/11.
like i said; the grass around it is not even scorched.
A BYU physicist and professor lost his job coming to conclusions deviant from the official record.
the lesson that the professor refused to learn was that we need to keep our mouths shut – for our own good
Agreed.
Wow and just as well they had a photographer at hand to record the attack eh? What's wrong with this picture? It's not in Russia and it was not a S-300.
Usually they are recording such attacks from drones above. This picture is made, it looks, from other truck. And, of course, it is not S-300.
Correct. Ground level camera.
good catch.
ww3 potential in 5 different hotspots are flaring right now. At leat one will flare before the summer is out. Well done humanity. You were dumped into a nice little place out in the boondocks so you wont be bothered and your species can grow the F up in its own time. This is your end result???????????
i would say you all can go to hell(But your already in hell by your deeds) for your slow suicide but what you did to this gift and how you treated fellow critters is far beyond the Pale…Good riddance..
Schopenhauer was right
You might want to get a prescription for that, son.
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-44VRbXcf588/Vx6yKS7lRCI/AAAAAAAACVM/bN2iKspm2MAO4U-U7x-T9FPoZKHN7xzWQCLcB/s1600/Arthur_Schopenhauer.jpg
He seems fun!
""what you did to this gift and how you treated fellow critters is far beyond the Pale…""
damnit, yalls hit the nail right on it's head. almost nobody else has figured out the true loss of humanities' morality.
i have been to animal shelters and taken a sad look around…..
there is no going back after that sad experience.
Probably a picture of a Ukrainian S-300 burning… Russia has taken out most of them.
Ukraine sent special forces to Syria to attack Russians there, revealing a new front to the war: report
https://www.msn.com/en-us/n…
Ukraine sent special forces to Syria to attack Russians there, revealing a new front to the war: report
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-sent-special-forces-to-syria-to-attack-russians-there-revealing-a-new-front-to-the-war-report/ar-BB1nBzLd?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=HCTS&cvid=76a47e184c1446fb8dc38dd3a4368fab&ei=57
When Russia retaliates and more Ukrainians are killed and more of their infrastructure is destroyed, the West and Stoltenberg will continue to claim that Russia isn't responding to any of the escalations and Ukraine will continue to be used as fodder.
That is a "best case" for the West, that only Ukrainians suffer. That is the thinking of our neocons.
G-d help us all if anything happens to Putin. Hardliners wanted "shock and awe", not the measured incursion. If hardliners get ahold of the levers of power and the military………………………
We targeted it for Kiev. Just as we are aiding the IDF to strike in Gaza. The nation constantly at war needs more war and killing so sate its appetite for blood, dead bodies.
The Russian invasion was nether unprovoked nor illegal.
A crucial "starting point" happened when Clinton US-NATO attacked Yugoslavia claiming a "responsibility to protect" justification. Subsequent administrations & US-NATO also used that claim to justify their invasions of Libya and Syria.
However when Russia used that doctrine to protect residents of Donbas and Crimea it was declared by the US to be an "unprovoked and illegal" invasion.
Apparently "what's good for the goose" is apparently to be denied to the gander.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_to_protect
That was however not how Russia declared its intentions nor how they acted – i.e. they maintained until the last moment that they were not going to attack – and then they did anyway.
NATO demanded specific terms from Slobodan Milošević and told him that failing complying with these demands they would take action – it was not a surprise attack!
Furthermore the Russians made no demands on the Ukrainians concerning the Donbas – where deaths from the conflict had declined to a very low level by 2021 – so a very peculiar way to justify an action, in 2021 the figures were:
Killed: 7 persons by direct hostilities 12 by mines
Injured: 17 persons by direct action 46 by mines
Other causes: 6 killed 2 injured
These figures are for both sides!
https://ukraine.un.org/site…
Thousands have died as on account of Putin's SMO – very strange way to try to protect Russian speaking Ukrainians!
Russian military intervention into Ukraine happened after a drastic escalation of Ukrainian artillery attacks against civilians in Donetsk which resulted in tens of thousands refugees from Donetsk to Russia. It was the beginning of an ethnic cleansing campaign which Kiev regime talked about quite a lot starting from 2014. It was no surprise to anyone. Kiev authorities and their sponsors thought Putin wouldn't dare to use military forces on Ukrainian territory because if he does, he has all NATO united against him both militarily and economically.
Which only happened after the Russians had already build up for the invasion – so they provoked this themselves.
Do you have any documentation for this assertion?
Quite a remarkable claim, do you have any substantiation for it?
It is only natural that you have such a distorted picture of what is going on in Ukraine. For knowing anything about the situation, one needs to have access to better sources of information than the corporate media. Kiev regime leaders talked a lot and with admiration about Srpska Krajina ethnic cleansing campaign. Russia concentrated the troops on the border in response to Ukrainian concentration of Ukrainian troops near Donetsk. First big concentration of Ukrainian troops in the area happened in spring 2021. At the time Kiev regime and it's sponsors was dissuaded but in February 2022 they started it seriously, so Putin had no choice but to recognize the independence of DNR and LNR, and sign a military treaty with them. He did everything according to international law.
Provide your sources and we can debate at this level it is just you asserting that you are better informed without any evidence that this is the case.
He has secret intelligence, M64. Don't you know that?!?
Yes that seems to be the point.
I supplied you with sources, apparently even the graphs were too much information to clutter an already closed mind.
I'm not aware of anybody else making this claim (or me responding to it) so it is a bit of a surprise that you now claim to have provided me with sources for this claim.
I.e. that you supplied me with sources for Mikhailovich's claims before he made it.
If so you should have no problems just supplying the sources for the significant Ukrainian military build up in the spring of 2021 – you know before the Russian build up.
You now have a perfect opportunity to illustrate that my mind really is cluttered (or by omission of that show that it is you who makes mistakes) by providing these sources and referencing the comment where you provided these sources already.
My point was about R2P
First you lamely claimed it was a surprise (which it wasn't) so Russia bad according to you.
Now you attempt to digress with whether anyone can "prove" to your satisfaction (anything) but whether Kiev was planning or practicing ethnic cleansing.
Kiev had stared to intensify the bombardment of Donbas and that was reported by neutral observers and that triggered the "surprise" (which was not a surprise) Russian intervention.
If you want to portray it as similar to NATO's action in Kosovo – then you need to show that it was a legally warned action with options that the Ukrainians could take to avoid the action – you failed. Though it was not a surprise to the US administration it was to the Ukrainian – otherwise they would have blown the Bridges a few more places.
No you claim without any sources to back it up that Kyiv had such plans – I merely asked for your evidence – it would be rather a turnabout after Kyiv had dialed down the efforts in the Donbas through 2019 to at least late 2021, so it kind of needs some evidence not just your assertion.
Yes but you forget when they started this intensification – I happen to know and it was first by late January 2022 that the ceasefire violations increased dramatically – so after the Russian build up.
25 January 2022 still less than 200 ceasefire violations:
https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/510929
We need to proceed to mid February to get above 200 ceasefire violations often.
https://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/reports?page=2
In a search for 'S-300 destroyed by Ukraine' I came up with an awful lot of photos of Ukrainian S-300's wrecked by Russia, but only the one photo claiming to be a Russian S-300 in Russia. There were other Russian S-300's destroyed, but the photos of these were up to two years ago and in the Ukraine. Given that someone on the ground had to have taken the photo above, and if it is indeed inside Russia, one might be prompted to ask: where are the Russians? Would they not have at least a couple of guards at the site, or an inspection or cleanup team doing their thing? I'm pretty sure if a Ukrainian operator was on-site taking pictures we'd have more than just one- where are they? How difficult would it be to light a fire at an old S-300 site- a Ukrainian one- and publish a photo claiming it was inside Russia? I'm getting that feeling like this is another dog and pony show featuring the Ghost of Kiev.
Ukraine is a land of myths and fantasy. Remember the Ghost of Kiev?
The most evil people on earth and their antichrist leader Zelensky have been trying to get America and Russia into a shooting war for over a since well before 2014.
Worst case World War III would be an extinction level event for humans.
It is not Z alone.
Larry Johnson put a post up on Judge Nap's youtube channel about Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov's message, I suggest a listen if one can find the time. Larry 's at the Economic Forum in St.Petersburg and clearly believes there's a sense of urgency about Russia's warnings that isn't making it into the western bubble.
Larry wanted people to know and understand regardless what our "officials" say that Ryabkov is the consummate professional diplomat, that the warnings he and FM Lavrov are giving must be taken seriously. He asked Americans to contact their representatives and impress upon them how very serious this is.