Investigative journalist Seymour Hersh published an article on Substack on Wednesday that said the CIA was instructed to come up with a cover story for the Nord Stream bombings that was fed to The New York Times and the German newspaper Die Zeit.
The cover-up story was created to shift blame from the US after Hersh’s bombshell report published on February 8 that said President Biden ordered the attack on the Nord Stream natural gas pipelines, which connect Russia to Germany. “It was a total fabrication by American intelligence that was passed along to the Germans, and aimed at discrediting your story,” Hersh was told by a source within the American intelligence community.
Hersh said that the CIA was ordered to come up with a cover story after President Biden met with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz in Washington on March 3. Scholz’s visit was very brief and did not include the routine joint press briefing that usually follows a meeting between the president and another world leader. Hersh was told that his report detailing how the US took out Nord Stream was discussed by Biden and Scholz.
Hersh writes: “I was told by someone with access to diplomatic intelligence that there was a discussion of the pipeline exposé and, as a result, certain elements in the Central Intelligence Agency were asked to prepare a cover story in collaboration with German intelligence that would provide the American and German press with an alternative version for the destruction of Nord Stream 2.”
The result of the CIA’s work was published in The New York Times and Die Zeit on March 7. The New York Times report was very vague and said US officials are now claiming the Nord Stream bombings might have been carried out by a “pro-Ukrainian group.” The Die Zeit report claimed German investigators believe it was carried out by six people using a yacht rented in Poland that was owned by two Ukrainians. Other Western media outlets published similar articles reinforcing the cover story in the following days.
Hersh said the information The New York Times received “originated with a group of CIA experts in deception and propaganda whose mission was to feed the newspaper a cover story—and to protect a president who made an unwise decision and is now lying about it.”
The cover story offers a radically different narrative than what Hersh’s February 8 report alleges. Using anonymous sourcing, Hersh reported that the Nord Stream pipelines were destroyed by explosives planted by US Navy divers in June 2022 under the cover of NATO drills in the Baltic Sea. The operation was done in coordination with Norway, and a Norwegian spy plane detonated the explosives by dropping a sonar buoy on September 26, 2022.
The last time Scholz visited Washington was on February 7, 2022. Biden vowed during a press conference that day that if Russia invaded Ukraine, he would “bring an end” to the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. According to Hersh, the plot to destroy the pipelines was already underway at that time, and the plotters took Biden’s comment as a blatant threat.
On Scholz’s possible complicity in the operation, Hersh said in his new article: “At this point, it must be noted that Chancellor Scholz, whether or not he was alerted of the destruction of the pipeline in advance—still an open question—has clearly been complicit since last fall in support of the Biden Administration’s cover-up of its operation in the Baltic Sea.”
Collectively, the “details” provided by the New York Times and Die Zeit were laughable on their face. No way a yacht was a capable platform for this kind of operation. Even if Hersh is wrong on a couple of details, overall the motives of the US are extremely clear and it’s quite likely that the operation happened the way Hersh described. I’m so glad he’s on Substack.
Yup, six guys and some box cutters off a sailboat doesn’t sound all that convincing, does it? But it didn’t have to be. All scholtzi needed was some vague news report to muddy the waters and remove the pressure for him to answer to German business why their bestest buddy America made them a pauper. Mission accomplished.
maybe one the six’ passport floated up to the surface where it was found by an anonymous fisherman.
“oh of course it was six guys with boxcutters and a sailboat!”
Just another game from Clue. It was the Ukrainian child molesters in the Nord See with boxcutters.
Hey….. they had a rubber ducky too.
Again the ICC is asleep at the wheel. In reality the ICC should arrest themselves.
Eh, Putin is killing a bunch of people over geopolitics. So he probably deserves it. They need to add Biden (and friends) as well. And every goddamn MSM article about the ICC should reference that we don’t support them and threatened to invade the Netherlands over charges against OUR war criminals. It’s f-ing ridiculous to treat them as some sort of holy arbiter of law, and neglect to mention we don’t recognize their authority.
Thank you Mr. Hersh. We need the truth more than ever these days.
If Hersh comes up missing or dead in the near future, I dare anyone to believe anything the government says about him having an ‘accident’ or going out from ‘natural causes’. The Establishment doesn’t like being outed as a pack of lying jackals.
Blowing up Nord Stream, is not an easy task to be performed by, six Ukrainians. It was a military action, I believe Hersh.
It doesn’t matter, they also report what people believe. That’s where they get us. Ignore Hersh, then “Government sources say it was Nosferatu that destroyed the pipelines and everyone believes them and anyone that doesn’t is a Nazi.”
that’s how it works. i think people are relieved to have an official explanation of whatever to believe.
Hersh has a perfect reputation. No reason for dismissing his investigation. Besides, it was clear even without Hersh who has done it.
I don’t. Not only has 85-year-old Hersh had a few bad years, but the story makes little sense. First, it is based on a single (anonymous) source; this source is so high up that it seems unlikely he would dish out America’s top secrets. Next, the damage was limited; if the US wanted to blow up the pipelines, it should have destroyed them completely. Third, does Biden really seems like a blow-things-up kind of guy? And the US would assume that their allies would learn about their role – after all, Hersh did; wouldn’t the consequences of that be far worse than any meager benefit from the sabotage? Sorry – it just doesn’t add up.
This is why no one would publish this story – Hersh had to publish it on this own site.
Also – where is the proof that the CIA fabricated this story? This certainly reads more like Russian disinformation than journalism.
Your argument is essentially I can’t believe it’s true so it isn’t, and here is my parade of strawmen why I allow myself to be so fucken gullible.
No indeed Biden did not himself blow anything up. He made the decision. And no, the damage was not “limited” and no you can’t evaporate 2 times 1200+ km of pipeline go USA style, even with a platoon of Chuck Norris.
And yeah, sure man, Hersh is a Russian disinformation agent. And I have just been paid quite a handsome amount of rubles to type a response to some random guy merrily expressing his naivety.
No, my argument is that Hersh does not present any actual evidence, and it’s not “strawmen” to say that it lacks logic. And the Russians had many U.S. journalists under their control during the Cold War; whose to say Hersh wasn’t one of them? It seems his articles are always anti-American (My Lai, Bin Laden capture, and now Nord Stream).
It’s not a “strawman” to say that the Russians have been practicing disinformation since the says of the Czars (“Protocols of the Elders of Zion”). Whether Czars, communists, or whatever you call Russians now, they consistently have attacked the West and the US with disinformation. Perhaps you believe everything they say.
And you can believe a claim that lacks any actual evidence if you want, but not sure why you can’t handle a discussion of implications of the report. Maybe discussions are not for you.
Russia Ramps Up for Nuclear Conflict: Says British Shipments of Depleted Uranium Shells to Ukraine Brings The Nuclear Apocalypse Closer. Why to go moron.
The idiot who is obtuse unless there is a smoking gun? Like saying where is th proof you went to the moon ass hat? Risk reward means nothing to this moron.Your counrty said they would and Joey said he did but even that is not enough for this idiot.
He published professional information, it is a meticulous researched article. Hersh always has more than one source, and he knows they tell the truth. And unless there is airtight evidence to prove him wrong I believe every word he wrote. Outside scientists and professional divers have confirmed the validity of his reporting. It was not just 6 people on a little yacht, it is Stirling professional reporting. Kudos to Seymour Hersh.
How can you believe the BS from the NYT or Die Zeit, the papers are not fit for toilet paper.
Go back and look at the videos of Biden and Nuland saying what would happen to NordStream if Putin invaded Ukraine. Do you believe them when they speak? They threatened to do it, and rejoiced when it was done. Pretty damning behavior and words.
So “Mr. Smith,” did you type this laugably bad piece of cointel in Langley or…Tel Aviv?
“Everyone who disagrees with me is a Russian bot / hasbara bot / CIA COINTELPRO bot” never gets old, does it?
The context of this criminal act which brought masses of dangerous atmosphere-heating gases into our atmosphere is made of three very destruction-prone leaders: Putin, Biden, and Zelenskiy.
Accordingly, the accusations include “Putin did it”. “Biden did it”. “Zelenskiy” did it.
My reading of Biden’s relationship with violent solutions suggests to me that Hersch is correct.
OK, so you have nothing to refute my points. Have a nice day.
“Not only has 85-year-old Hersh had a few bad years, but the story makes little sense.”
“Biden vowed during a press conference that day that if Russia invaded Ukraine, he would “bring an end” to the Nord Stream 2 pipeline.”
I see… so, a vague statement in line with the sanctions the US and the EU have imposed against Russia, proves that the United States organized an attack on the pipeline? While constantly repeated on Russia media, here in the real world, that allegation does not convince anyone. That is the worst “proof” I’ve ever seen. It looks like Russia propaganda has become as feeble and ineffective as their military and economy.
But of course, it was a “vague statement”. bring. an. end. And then it goes boom. I mean, in real life at least someone is brought in for some serious questioning. But just me spreading Russian propaganda. I get it. Little sense.
The statement is vague and unspecific. Yes, clearly the US wanted to end the pipeline.
And when do presidents reveal top secret military operations in advance? Can you provide some examples?
I don’t know who clear up the Nord Stream pipeline, but this statement fails as proof.
When you’re 80, those things happen. They talked it back as they always do. And the US is brazened enough to think that would be sufficient. And I wasn’t saying it was proof. Just that it should raise suspicion.
Well, that is speculation. You are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is not proof.
It is COMMON SENSE.
I see. It’s common sense. Well, that’s different. Who needs actual facts, when you have common sense? OK, I’m convinced.
All your facts are useless if you don’t have the common sense to use them. Senile Biden has a problem and delusional grandeur is a problem for Biden and Nuland, Blinken, and Sullivan. They think they can walk on clouds.
You have presented a lot of opinions but no facts.
An exploration of some of the facts here includes many flaws in the Hersh article.
https://www.wired.com/story/nord-steam-explosions-mystery-osint/
That is a very flimsy, superficial article. And no sources no independent research, nothing, other than what has been mentioned in other superficial reports without sources. Low standard reporting.
A 15 Meter yacht with 6 people including 2 divers to expect people to read that is insulting to intelligent people, nothing but BS, to call it what it is.
You obviously haven’t read the article; it is all independent research.
The yacht is mentioned as being an observed phenomenon that could have played a role. Read the article before reaching a conclusion next time.
Sweden cleared it up, they confirmed the explosions, they investigated they say, but can’t tell what they found, security, the cover all. And Biden happens to be senile and Nuland tends to be sloppy, recall the phone call before the regime change?That was really a sloppy performance if you ask me, she should have been fired, instead Biden promoted her.
All independent professionals confirm the accuracy of the professional details Mr. Hersh collected from his sources, they are not pretend professionals by all accounts.
The real vicious liars are in DC, London, Berlin, Paris, Oslo and all the other USA/NATO capitals.
The US propaganda is a very expensive joke, just recall the weather balloons. 2 $400 000 missiles to shoot down one $20.00 weather balloon. That is what panicky people do.
You can bet that the US gov’t is scouring the banks and dragging the river looking for Mr Hersh’s source. In order to effect retribution, of course.
That assumes his story is true. I see no reason to assume that. Like many of his recent flawed works – such as the Bin Laden capture story – it is already starting to be picked apart.
It’s a math problem.
How reliable is Hersh? Probably not 100%.
How reliable is Hersh by comparison the US regime? A thousand percent more.
Well, suit yourself. That assumes that one of them is telling the truth. However, I wouldn’t agree that the US government is a “regime” or that is is “1,000%” more prone to lying. But you believe whatever you want.
The CIA cover up story was lame. Is this the best the entire CIA can do?
This whole affair – Biden blowing up Nord Stream (which I believe) – is a bit scary. To destroy major, Russian equipment in international waters just reeks of dangerous/reckless stupidity.
BTW, like many – even before Hersh’s article – I did not believe for a second it was anyone but America who instigated this. And the notion that the press put out – at the time – that the Russians would blow up their own pipeline was beyond ridiculous.
I have never had less confidence in the intelligence and common sense of the American government (both parties) then I do now.
I thought could be the US as the source of the explosion, but after seeing Hersh’s piece – and the frantic efforts by Russia to promote it – I’m not so sure.
As for Russia blowing up their (shut-down) pipeline, that is not without precedent. Russia is already targeting energy infrastructure – including nuclear power plants. Plus, they have a history (it is commonly believed) of false flag operations, such as blowing up apartments in Moscow during the Chechnya war – a war that propelled Putin into power. So, there is not reason to believe that Russia wouldn’t blow up the pipeline, which has little chance of ever re-starting anyway.
Good for a laugh, or maybe two, but not so good for the country…….!!!!!!!!! And now comes the crisis in our banking….. Is this our HumptyDumpty moment, of just another trillion dollar Bonner by Biden…..?????
So, nothing to refute my points? OK.
As for the banking crisis – you think that is just a coincidence, and has nothing to do with Russia? (You hit us, we hit you…the gangster motto from a country run by a gangster – Russia).
The banking crisis is entirely attributable to the mismanagement of the Fed.
Russia has nothing to do with our banking system since they were evicted from SWIFT.
Well good luck with that nonsense. Can’t rinse and repeat for the ‘special kids’ forever. The caravan is moving on.
So, you have nothing of actual substance to say? Best of luck.
There is no substance to what you said.
Still nothing. OK, go with that.
The could just shut off the ns1 and refused to comply with arbitration with regards to contractual obligation since they r the most heavily sanctioned country in the world anyway? Why r they still supplying through Ukraine? Easier to blow up those pipelines where an actual war is going on.
There are a lot of different angles and questions here, but as always, who benefits?
The USA is the big beneficiary, Norway gains too, the pipeline to Poland was ready to open up the day after the big blowup.
Someday one of the divers could talk or documents pop up, many people were involved and they can make money by writing their own books or sell what they know.
Maybe. Maybe not.
U are mistaken, try again with an apology. 🙂
Huh?
Why would they, they thought they were dealing with sane people in Europe.
Russia has not targeted nuclear power plants, and other such things, like the incubator babies and the Ukrainian children Putin captured.
Biden had jets scramble and use two $400 000 missiles to bring down a $12.00 weather balloon.
U.S did it exactly as described, you are in denial.
I see…so, you have more information than the entire world, and all intelligence agencies? You’re like some sort of all-knowing being? I must admit – I’m impressed.
Biden on February 8, 2022:
‘”If Russia invades, that means tanks or troops crossing the … border of Ukraine again, then there will be … no longer a Nord Stream 2. We, we will bring an end to it,” Biden said. Asked how, given the project is in German control, Biden said: “I promise you, we’ll be able to do it.”‘
https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-germanys-scholz-stress-unified-front-against-any-russian-aggression-toward-2022-02-07/
If that alone is not evidence enough for you?
Then clearly you don’t want to believe the obvious.
That is the saddest, least convincing “evidence” I’ve ever seen. How about real evidence, such as findings from the explosion? What was used, how was it detonated?
But all you have is a quote saying they want to “bring an end to” a project. Hey, whatever floats your boat.
So ‘motive’ and ‘intent’ are not evidence to you?
So be it.
Let’s hope you are not a lawyer.
Be definition, motive and intent are not evidence. Further, you have not proven either. Imagining something in your mind isn’t “evidence”.
I didn’t. I was fooled by the Spiegel story the day after the attacks on the CIA warning the BND (weeks) in advance something nasty was afoot with the pipelines. I mistakenly took that serious. I first became convinced with Hersh’s story, bit still had some very small, but lingering doubts. These were finally removed when the New York Times printed their ridiculously transparent nonsense. That made it absolutely clear.
So now this leaves me wondering about this Spiegel story. Am I again failing to be cynical enough in my doubt to take it as very early collusion of the German press, that they have since continued. Or can I hope for some restoration of my faith in humanity in that they were simply taken for the suckers that they are. If so, it should become important to them to haunt their sources.
From the start the NATO members MSM have coordinated, government narrative reporting.
Former reputable German papers made a 180 degree turn, as has the former Green Party. The same is true for TV news. Der Spiegel and Die Zeit and the SDZ used to be reliable papers, a little left of center, not any more. Now they practise cynical reader manipulation, it is coordinated propaganda, the same as what we have and call MSM.
They are really the modern time Nazis.
The Green party lost the older people who started the party, now the young use the name as cover for neo-Nazi political intentions. They have a different motivation than the original Nazis had. They are traitors of the nation which is true of the whole ample coalition. The CDU in the opposition is silent. What goes on is incomprehensible, a chancellor Scholz, a Social Democrat, is selling the nation. Under Hitler socialists ended up in concentration camps. It is a nightmare.
The Nazis, the Greens, the Banderites, etc., are just the tools of Anglo-Saxon imperialism. They are manipulated into spilling their blood or sacrificing their country for the geopolitical aim of controlling the Eurasian “Heartland” (see McKinder). The Anglo-Saxon maritime empires need proxy forces to fight continental wars. They fear that they will lose control of the empire if a strong power comes to control the heartland. That’s why they launch incessant wars in the periphery of the heartland.
When Germany launched Operation Barbarossa, Senator Truman (later president) said that “if the Germans are winning we’ll support the Russians, if the Russians are winning we’ll support the Germans, the important thing is that they kill as many of each other as possible.” The Americans waited for the Russians to defeat the Germans, and as soon as the Germans were defeated, the Americans allied with the Germans against the Russians. They even used Bandera and Gehlen’s Nazi network in Ukraine to subvert the Soviet Union while making plans to destroy all urban centers in the Soviet Union with up to 300 nuclear bombs.
The Germans believe that the Americans are their friends. What will it take to disabuse them of that illusion? If the Germans want a friend, they ought to look towards Russia.
You said it so well. I do think the elite of USA/NATO allies are united, all manipulate their people and spill their blood and sacrificing their young men, so they can hold on to their war profits and live happily ever after in the Hamptons or places like Davos and the Riviera if anything is left. For the capitalistic elite it is always about their power and money. They are the real war criminals, they are malicious and ruthless people.
“collusion of the German press” or were they…simply taken for…suckers”
Some govt official, who invokes the common ‘speaking anonymously’ clause, contacts some reporter, says, ‘here’s what we found but we can’t tell you more’?
Can see the German paper going for it…one more piece of ‘anonymously sourced’ govt stuff…
…was the nationality of the anonymous source ever reported? – not that – given Hersh’s claim – you’d actually expect it to be US…because, if ‘anonymous source nationality’ was released, that would lead to the journalistic question for the nation, ‘so, did your country make this finding itself – or is this info that another country gave you to release?’
It is well known that the US government leaks information for political and propaganda reasons. MSM including NYT and WP will publish it by referring to unnamed government sources. They never questioned the WMD without any evidence. Journalists unwilling to play the game get fired, but the willing people will be paid million $$ salaries. Chris Hedges was fired by the NYT, and Julian Assange, an Australian Journalist telling the truth about drone civilian casualties has been imprisoned and his health has been destroyed, Snowden received asylum in Russia and is now a Russian citizen. all our TV talking heads toe the line and still earn their big salaries. They would never question anything Biden does or even says. The same is true in Europe, Augstein would turn in his grave if he knew what they did to Spiegel. They fire Russian artists, conductors, singers and other artists for not speaking bad of Putin.
Mr. Hersh has a stellar journalistic reputation, his sources are reliable. He can be trusted.
1/ “the US government leaks information for political and propaganda reasons.”
yop…
“never questioned the WMD without any evidence.”
they sure as hell did not question the lyin’ wmd claims – even when claims would bite the dirt soon after (the ‘yellow cake uranium from nigeria’)
2/ again – my thought: accused of blowing up the pipeline, the u.s. would have distanced itself from its liar story – would have run it through german or another intelligence w/the understanding that the u.s. source was not to be divulged
3/ on the nyt q. of awhile back, btw – gotta admit another reason for keeping my subscription – i read their and posters’ crap, and post back. and so – whether i’m talking w/lib’s i know personally, or tryna persuade libs on the street to sign a ‘negotiate now’ letter to legislators – i basically know what they’re gonna say, and have my worked out analysis/facts ready.
best
Very apt & precise comment: Biden’s act in three words…..
————“Dangerous/Reckless Stupidity”……………………….
And he is so deranged, he broadcasts it to the world & does it. Only to deny it soon after. All signs of mental decline. With US citizens stuck on this tailspin empire………. HELP….!!!!!!
Nuland is leading the gang of four. This all has her and the Kagan signature.
I thought she had soloed from her husband before she got in the White House.
Maybe she did, but she still could work with him and his brother and her sis-in-law.
I guess you don’t know what soloing is.
Well, why don’t you tell us? It can mean LOTS of different things.
It means to test out on something by having a inspector watch you do it, usually fly an airplane.
The first words out of Victoria Nuland’s mouth were obscenities.
Thanks.
And I agree with you about his mental decline.
Thanks.
And I agree with you about his mental decline.
Power is a most dangerous addiction.
Alex Christophorou has a better explanation for who blew up the NordStream pipelines. The yacht was The Minnow. The Skipper navigated the yacht to the location. Gilligan was the diver; the Professor was the brains behind the operation; the Millionaire and his wife bankrolled the operation,; Ginger’s acting got them through government check points, and Mary Ann’s role is still a mystery to Alex. Alex is asking for ideas as to what Mary Ann’s role was in the operation. Any ideas?
I didn’t know that The Duran traded in such sarcasm:-)
I doubt if anyone on board the Minnow was devious enough to blow up a pipeline and then deny doing it.
Alex was at his best on this bit of playful sarcasm.
🤣
Mary Ann’s role was to give all the lonely men a woman to have a crush on.
Or to resort to after they’d been blown off by Ginger.
That was great! The professor probably used some of those plastic explosives that floated onto the Island. Man, the sh*t that floated on that Island. Why, you would almost think the whole thing was fiction. 😉
The Russians have demonstrated that international law no longer matters. They attacked a sovereign nation with a brutal war that is killing thousands of men, women, and children, young and old. They are stealing children. They are raping women and children, and targeting civilians with powerful missiles. They are bombing energy infrastructure, torturing civilians, and stealing everything they can get their hands on.
So, having demonstrated that international law no longer applies…he can cry boo-hoo about his pipeline. If the US blew a few holes in it – so be it.
Oh Ukraine….you poor violated virgin
And the nearly 8 years (2014-2022) of Kiev brutally shelling and murdering thousands of their own countrymen/women/children? Just because the latter voted overwhelmingly to leave Ukraine?
https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related%20civilian%20casualties%20as%20of%2031%20December%202021%20%28rev%2027%20January%202022%29%20corr%20EN_0.pdf
Please show us where ‘international law’ allows for that?
Both sides are wrong.
But the killing was started by Kiev…over 9 years ago.
The shelling in the Donbas wasn’t just done by the Kyiv regime. And that regime’s troops were the single largest casualty group.
Should they have peaceably accepted the Donbas secession? Yes. Both in general, and because it was reasonable to expect that if Putin’s eight-year use of the secessionists as pawns in his proxy war with Ukraine didn’t get him what he wanted, he’d eventually escalate to direct conflict.
Strawman.
I don’t care – in this regard – how many troops Kiev lost. I am talking about the 3,000+ civilians that were killed PURELY because Kiev decided to murder their own people…rather than letting them leave.
Despite the fact that over 85% of them want to – as shown in the referendum and western poll after western poll. And the fact that the vast majority of Donbas residents are of Russian – not Ukrainian descent.
You don’t start killing people because they want to leave.
What Kiev did for almost 8 years was HORRIBLY wrong.
No excuses.
Period.
If you believe otherwise or are in ANY WAY justifying/removing the burden from them on it – I feel sorry for you.
We are done on this.
I support freedom to secede.
Part of the problem is making such decisions collectively. Even if 85% want to secede, why should the other 15% have to do so as well — especially if the 85% are free to move to the polity they prefer without dragging the 15% with them?
The Donbas secession was mostly just a Russian proxy war versus Ukraine, which escalated to a full war when it became obvious that the proxies were tired of fighting and the war couldn’t be won through them.
Well, at least I can get where you’re coming from with this. You obviously have a very low opinion of everyone involved in this conflict.
So if say, 50 people in Crimea didn’t want to join Russia (again), the rest should have emigrated to Russia, since they wanted to be Russian citizens. Right.
Somehow, I think this is more complicated than your arithmetic. The people I met a few years ago, who still have family in the Donbass, would disagree with your premise that Putin was running a proxy war to gain some territory by using Russians in the east as puppets. Those Russians took real offense at attempts by Kiev to erase their culture and language.
“The people I met a few years ago, who still have family in the Donbass, would disagree with your premise that Putin was running a proxy war to gain some territory by using Russians in the east as puppets. Those Russians took real offense at attempts by Kiev to erase their culture and language.”
What makes you think those two statements are incompatible with each other? You can’t have a proxy war without proxies. You get proxies on the basis of real grievances/worries.
This is a very light hot-take, here, to the point of in-credibility. Many, many well-credentialed observers flat out disagree with such an assertion(s).
The post-2014 “Kiev Administration(s)” was, of course, naturally the chief stakeholder in the shelling of the Donbas post-2014 Maidan coup resistance.
Whether or not “not the only force” means the far right elements, included, or not, clearly these had become “government” post-2014, indeed as the “plumbers” of the coup on ground (literally sniping from Maidan buildings to create the, um, “revolutionary” pre-text).
And it’s also highly improbable that Kiev troops were the bulk of casualties, here. Unless, that is, all the rest of these very credible commentators got it wrong, otherwise, when asserting that most of the 14K killed were Donbas (what else could really be the case after an 8yr Western-supplied Kievan military buildup? Nothing of that scale occurred in the Donbas from the Russians during that time).
(While were at it a moment of silence for the herded-then-burned-alive-in-building trade unionists in that Odessa incident.)
But I’ll just highlight a highlight, the well-known massive spike in “Kiev Administration” shelling of the Donbas in the week or so before the Russian intervention (presumably it’s okay if we use that word instead of “invasion” since US-approved invasions, regardless legality, are instead called “interventions”. Geese and ganders, etc.), many noting possibly designed to finally prompt the desired (yes, desired aka quagmire-type play; See Z. Brzezinski) Russian intervention.
It’s also well-known that Zelensky had long ago been amenable to, indeed, had presidential-campaigned-on, negotiations with the Donbas areas, but was in-no-uncertain-terms told by the far right (as-in, real Nazis) elements (elevated by the 2014 Maidan into formal governance and military leadership) that the only solution to the Donbas question was military.
P.S. When the Donbas would-be Republics declared, or sought to, their desired independence post-Maidan, Putin refused to recognize them! He pursued Minsk/II, instead, where Donbas would remain part of Ukraine but with autonomy!
P.P.S. Historical newsflash: The Cuban Missile Crisis didn’t start with Khrushchev placing missiles in Cuba. There’s a precedence here. Think about it. Hint: Putin has only been reiterating it for, like, a dozen years, at least!
One correction: It’s not a “hot take.”
Everyone watched the Donbas secession and Putin’s exploitation of it to conduct proxy war against Ukraine for eight years.
Some people just believed whatever the side they preferred had to say about it.
Others believed our lying eyes.
Once again, this is a very light hot-take, here, to the point of in-credibility. Many, many well-credentialed observers flat out disagree with such an assertion(s).
The post-2014 “Kiev Administration(s)” was, of course, naturally the chief stakeholder in the shelling of the Donbas post-2014 Maidan coup resistance.
Whether or not “not the only force” means the far right elements, included, or not, clearly these had become “government” post-2014, indeed as the “plumbers” of the coup on ground (literally sniping from Maidan buildings to create the, um, “revolutionary” pre-text).
And it’s also highly improbable that Kiev troops were the bulk of casualties, here. Unless, that is, all the rest of these very credible commentators got it wrong, otherwise, when asserting that most of the 14K killed were Donbas (what else could really be the case after an 8yr Western-supplied Kievan military buildup? Nothing of that scale occurred in the Donbas from the Russians during that time).
(While were at it a moment of silence for the herded-then-burned-alive-in-building trade unionists in that Odessa incident.)
But I’ll just highlight a highlight, the well-known massive spike in “Kiev Administration” shelling of the Donbas in the week or so before the Russian intervention (presumably it’s okay if we use that word instead of “invasion” since US-approved invasions, regardless legality, are instead called “interventions”. Geese and ganders, etc.), many noting possibly designed to finally prompt the desired (yes, desired aka quagmire-type play; See Z. Brzezinski) Russian intervention.
It’s also well-known that Zelensky had long ago been amenable to, indeed, had presidential-campaigned-on, negotiations with the Donbas areas, but was in-no-uncertain-terms told by the far right (as-in, real Nazis) elements (elevated by the 2014 Maidan into formal governance and military leadership) that the only solution to the Donbas question was military.
P.S. Post-Maidan when Donbas would-be republics sought to declare independence, Putin declined to recognize, instead pursuing Minsk/II !!
P.P.S. Historical precedence newsflash: Cuban Missile Crisis didn’t start with Khrushchev putting missiles in Cuba. I’ll wait. Putin has been talking about the roots of the Ukrainian crisis for probably for at least, like, 20 years! But take your time.
That’s complete nonsense, Russian propaganda, and you know it. International law is law between nations, and a civil war is by definition not international.
Creating a parallel between Ukraine fighting a rebellion in its own borders – that involved troops with weapons supplied by a foreign power – to attacks on civilian housing by powerful Russian missiles is absurd. No one believes that fantasy.
Ukraine did not fight against in insurrection in its country because of how people “voted”. They fought back against a power neighbor that was stealing its territory – something that no one in the world recognizes as legitimate. Oh wait – some countries have recognize this war crime as OK – North Korea, Syria, Sudan, and Cuba. Great company you keep.
Deep fake? Botfarm or worst, empty between the ears! Lol!
Wrong.
Crimes against humanity are violations of international law.
https://legaldictionary.net/international-law/
Did you honestly believe you could slaughter your own countrymen/women and not violate international law?
Guess again.
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/rwanda-the-first-conviction-for-genocide
Wrong.
Crimes against humanity/murdering your own people violates international law.
https://legaldictionary.net/international-law/
You honestly thought that it is not a violation of international law to simply murder your own people…so long as it takes place within your nation?
Yikes!
I sincerely hope you never run an nation.
H-bomb! Mai Lai Msscr etc etc
Yes, the US has participated in brutal actions during wars that have killed thousands of innocent civilians; but if international law no longer matters, then the Russians have nothing to complain about. It’s just the way things are.
Scary! The bot almost sounds human!
We know for a fact that Biden didn’t have anything more to do with it than bragging about it.
I see…everything is America’s fault and the CIA. Sure, Seymour. Whatever you say.
Sure, Hillary, Russia did it. (wink, wink)
Russia did interfere in US elections, starting in 2014. Read the US Senate Intelligence Committee report (that is, if you care about elections).
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/press/senate-intel-releases-election-security-findings-first-volume-bipartisan-russia-report
You think that America’s 17 intelligence agencies are going to tell 100 Senators anything they haven’t been “read” into?
Huh? What does that even mean?
What part of it don’t you understand, Lucy?
They are all listed at wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community
These days if you want some grain of truth from US government operation, you have to go to Symour Hursh.
I laughed when I first read the cover story. It’s pretty funny.
I didn’t realize that CIA personnel were allowed to smoke dope on the job.
You wouldn’t expect them to inspect what they smuggle? 🙂
Actually, we should hope that they do smoke dope on the job. Hard to be a vicious asshole while stoned.
Power is a very special opium addiction, ask Biden, Nuland, Blinken, and Sullivan.
Unfortunately it is not overdoseable.
I’m still waiting to hear from Winkin’ and Nod.
It depends on what one is stoned on, PCP being good at inspiring assholiness.
That is a good one. LOL
PCP provides great resistance to being Tasered, something police officers use to identify PCP as the intoxicant.
So true. I only meant pot.
Dr. William Wong claims that smoking pot reduces IQ. If true, mine must have been off the scale when I was 15, when I became a frequent user for 20 years. I quit to become a truck driver and have experienced lifelong accusations of being a know-it-all, which I disagree with, knowing virtually nothing about sports or current popular culture.
++++
well they do deal in large quantities.
According to the “official” story, they searched the boat in January, four months after the act. They’ve identified a captain, two divers, two diving assistants and a doctor. One woman. Five men. For all the specifics, the trail sure has seemed to have gone cold. And why didn’t these journalists ask questions to fill in the obvious blanks in the tale? Presumably they had to look something like the fake passports or were there no pics left in the passports? I mean that’s basic to have to explain. Bellingcat has posted webcam footage from where the boat was docked before and after the date but nothing on the day the boat left??? wtf
The present “Administration” in DC, which includes the FBI and CIA, must be abolished and those traitors punished severely!
Does it surprise anyone? I don’t think so. I still believe that Scholz was fully informed by Biden in Feb. 2022 even before the joined press conference.
“German investigators believe it was carried out by six people using a yacht invented in Poland”
Fixed it.
The Poles are geniuses.
Wow! way to go Sy. Makes “the grey lady” look the antique whore she is, … am especially keen to hear Karine Jean-Pierre on how “laughable, absurd, ridiculous, …” this latest with her patent blase’ mildly annoyed attitude.
Looks like antiwar.com is shaking up the official BS/whopper Wash. narrative on the current crisis in Ukraine and Taiwan fomented by the politicians. So, here comes MR. SMITH to try and ‘set us all straight’ with more whoppers. Ignore him, don’t feed the trolls and he’ll go back to mopping the CIA building floors.
“CIA Planted Nord Stream Cover-Up Story in the Media”
And, they also planted ‘Mr. Smith’ here on antiwar.com”
Seems rather obvious, doesn’t it?
Seymour Hersh has been right far more often than he has been wrong. The mainstream media, at Washington’s behest, tried to smear him when he reported that the “chemical weapons attack” in Syria was NOT the act of the Assad government, but of the jihadist rebels attempting to bring the USA into the war; but now, years later, it seems he was dead right about that. I expect he has the truth, or most of the truth, about nordstream as well. Or at least, until some ACTUAL proof is presented, I’m much more inclined to believe him than anything coming from our government.
unfortunately, til there’s a whistleblower willing to risk all to expose the u.s. govt, hersh’s reporting will be ridiculed and marginalized. need an ellsberg, an assange.
in the 1980s, the reagan administration lied about supporting el salvadoran military-linked anticommunist death squads, ‘the contras,’ in latin america – a group that – in the most notorious episode americans learned of – abducted raped and murdered four american churchwomen…
…reagan and co’s lies were known at time – but the role of the military – which the reagan admin supported – weren’t fully revealed til almost 2 decades later – when, as a practical matter, the truth could do little good:
Four churchwomen, “Maura Clarke, Jean Donovan, Ita Ford and Dorothy Kazel — were abducted, raped and shot to death on the night of Dec. 2, 1980.” Reagan and his cronies knew it was done on El Salvadoran military orders – but lied about it in order to keep giving money and weapons to the anti-Communist Latin American “Contras.” “4 Salvadorans Say They Killed U.S. Nuns on Orders of Military” https://www.nytimes.com/1998/04/03/world/4-salvadorans-say-they-killed-us-nuns-on-orders-of-military.html
The NYT transcription of the USG cover story was also based on anonymous sourcing…
Thank you for the truth.
The illegitimate Xiden regime has gone rogue
We all know the remedy for the Deep State.
But we’re all still cowards.
We’re right behind you, buddy. Go get ’em. j/k, I’m not going to take them on all by my lonesome anymore, and I would suggest you don’t either.
Someone needs to leak the video of Scholz fellating Biden.
More likely to work the other way around, biologically speaking.
Can we just get rid of all our ‘intelligence’ services? We can all just guess at what’s going on around the world and probably be closer to the truth of it. We’d be no more poorly informed and it would cost us way less, could also make the rest of the world less angry at us.
Intelligence is valuable. It is important to know what one’s adversaries are up to. I would argue that the US’s adversaries are mostly concocted by itself. What I am opposed to are operations. Those must be defunded and banned.
Given that it takes special deep water divers using special deep water equipment, where did a gaggle of slack jawed Ukrainian divers get all that sophisticated explosives, equipment and training from, the Obiden admin / CIA. Looks like we’ve gone full circle, doesn’t it.
What’s a “special” deep water diver? Nitrox-certified?
I see…so, the president and the CIA are focused on a story with a single source that no reputable journal would publish, so it had to be self-published…sure, that makes sense.
Who was the source for the NYT and Die Zeit story that did get published?
“originated with a group of CIA experts in deception and propaganda…”
My God, my mother wouldn’t have believed that story. Two possibilities: either the American and German people are stupid as hell, or the people in the CIA tasked with the hit piece are stupid as hell, or wait… Maybe there are three possibilities….
Interesting fact, having so far (understandably) been complaining about not being invited to take part in the investigations of the pipeline the Russians have (for) now declined to take part in it when they were invited.
https://tass.com/politics/1594009
“how do you know that the CIA did not sabotage the Nord Stream?”
“because the CIA told me that they didn’t do it.”
“oh, OK.”
Not news to those who have followed the story , and we are all aware of Bidens threats which he had carried out to the letter , but Germany is just one of the NATO LACKEYS and is still occupide by the US Military. .
“Deception and propaganda “is what you get from Washington DC these days.
And now once they realised how risible the yacht thing was, theyve come up with Russian minisubs! What flurry of activity and misinformation. Surely, this proves byond a doubt that Hersch’s scoop was right. Almost a yr and now the silent media erupts with “intelligence sources say” theories. Shows how stupid they think we all are….and theyre probably right.