NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said Monday that Ukrainian forces are using significantly more ammunition than the alliance’s members can produce, putting a strain on Western stockpiles.
“The war in Ukraine is consuming an enormous amount of munitions, and depleting allied stockpiles,” Stoltenberg told reporters ahead of a NATO defense ministers meeting in Brussels.
“The current rate of Ukraine’s ammunition expenditure is many times higher than our current rate of production, and this puts our defense industries under strain,” he added.
Stoltenberg said that NATO needs to “ramp up production” and that the defense ministers meeting will focus on “ways to increase our defense industrial capacity and replenish stockpiles.”
The US has sent an enormous number of artillery shells to Ukraine since the Russian invasion. The US has provided Ukraine with over one million 155mm shells and is working to increase its production of ammunition by 500% over the next two years to meet Ukraine’s demand and also maintain Pentagon stockpiles.
But even with the US and NATO’s plans to increase production, it’s not clear if the policy of flooding Ukraine with weapons is sustainable. To offset the strain on NATO stockpiles and to make more money from the war, British and other Western arms makers want to start manufacturing weapons inside Ukraine. But a production line could take years to establish, and the factories could be targeted by Russia.
Stoltenberg said NATO is in a “race of logistics” to deliver equipment to Ukraine as Russia is making more gains in the Donbas. “Key capabilities like ammunition, fuel, and spare parts must reach Ukraine before Russia can seize the initiative on the battlefield,” he said.
Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov will join the NATO defense ministers in Brussels on Tuesday, where he will likely push for fighter jets. Stoltenberg said providing Ukraine with aircraft would be discussed at the meeting but that he preferred to focus on weapons Ukraine could use immediately as training on fighter jets would take time.
While there have been no pledges of Western jets to Ukraine, the UK said it will start training Ukrainians on how to fly NATO aircraft this spring. The discussion of jets comes after a series of escalations in Western military support for Ukraine, including the provision of heavy tanks and armored fighting vehicles.
Each new weapon brings NATO and Russia closer to a direct clash, something Stoltenberg has previously warned could happen. In December, Stoltenberg warned that a full-blown war with Russia was a “real possibility.”
154 thoughts on “Stoltenberg Says Ukraine Using Way More Munitions Than NATO Can Produce”
1. Tell us something we don’t know, Stoltenberg.
2. Someone tell Stoltenberg that ramping up production is likely to take too long to affect the outcome of this war, even if any quantity of weapons could affect the outcome of this war..
Russia lost the war months ago. The only question is whether they will lose to the Ukrainian army or to the Ukrainian resistance. Hearts and minds determine the outcome of asymmetric wars of national resistance.’
“Hearts and minds determine the outcome of asymmetric wars of national resistance.”
Yes, but true.
Happy Valentine’s Day!
I prefer negotiations to end wars rather than winning or losing.
As for Valentine’s Day, I’d like to see one we can all celebrate – everywhere.
Unfortunately we passed the stage where the negotiations could lead to a satisfactory outcome for all parts.
Talk to your boy Putin, he is the one that put his Army inside Ukraine to grab land for profit and control.
If he pulls his troops out today, this war is over thus peace.
Go complain about war in RT and TASS.
If Ukraine doesn’t surrender there will be no country for Russia to pull out of.
Yep, you said it correctly, that will be Russia’s problem for sure because Ukraine will not surrender their land to a thug.
They already did.
“If Ukraine doesn’t surrender there will be no country for Russia to pull out of.”
So now you support genocide.
If I did I’d be supporting Ukraine
Adolf Z is a very confused guy.
His avatar is a Z with a latino first and last name, pretends to be American and is all up in Putin’s ass.
That’s gotta be a serious internal identity struggle.
Yes, peace. The same peace as before the invasion. But you don’t acknowledge anything that happened pre-invasion, so I know I’m talking to a brick.
Actually, I do.
Russia harassed Ukraine since it became independent because Putin never considered Ukraine a sovereign country. For decades following their independence Russia used its natural gas supply into Ukraine as leverage, turning it off and on whenever (especially in the winter) the Ukrainian Government showed signs of establishing economic trades with other countries.
Russia threatened and applied economic sanctions whenever Ukraine tried to sell their own natural gas and oil to the EU. Then in 2014, Russia got into the internal matters of Ukraine and took Crimea in direct violation of the Budapest Agreement, when he knew the Sevastopol Naval base lease would not get renewed. That was followed by a promise to provide military and economic support to the separatists of Donbas if they pushed for independence. This war is now adding more to Putin’s Wishlist with the annexations.
There you have it, I do acknowledge what happened before the invasion.
And the peace I was talking about was the peace that existed between the US/NATO and Russia before the invasion. There was none and the status quo wasn’t about to change. And that has been what I’ve been talking about all along. Ukraine is a pawn. The US/NATO want to “weaken” Russia. Period.
Again, Putin was going to try to retake Ukraine back no matter what. It has been his goal and he has stated that.
US/NATO might have just accelerated the timeline because of his paranoia.
It is interesting that you are always bringing the last 30 years… and Zelensky is corrupted then suddenly you pretend to be concerned about Ukrainian soldiers dying and blah…
And here you are ignoring the last 30 years of struggle that Ukraine has gone through and that led to this mess, but now you are just only talking about the last 30 years of Russia and NATO/US.
And yet you were a fan boy of Putin all the way up to 2014. So, I guess you must have agreed with his policies pre-2014. Can you do math Don? And why would me thinking Zelensky is corrupted mean I’m pretending to care about Ukrainians dying? I’ve also said your man Putin is a thug but that doesn’t mean I want Russians to die either. And, again, you mustn’t be very good at math. You just renounced Putin a mere 9 years ago. What about the previous 20+ years of Ukraine’s struggle while you were an admitted Putin fan boy? You really make this easy.
I recognize everything that happened before the invasion. US/NATO subversion and provocation, the Holomodor hoolocaust (4 million victims), the White Russian Terror, the forced assimilation in the 19the and 20th centuries. You are ignoring centuries of imperial aggresssion against Ukraine by Russia that has gone on for centuries culminating in Putin’s invasion. You are also buying into the Kremlin line of exaggerating the influence of Nazis in present day Ukraine. Seven million Ukrainians served in the Red Army during World War II and over a million Ukrainian soldiers died fighting Nazis. Altogether between 4 and 8 million Ukrainians perished in World War II. Most Ukrainians hate the Nazis and the Svoboda party received 1.6% of the vote in the 2019 presidential election that was won by a member of the faith most hated by the Nazis, It is Putin’s apologists who are ignoring history and fabricating facts to justify a classic war of imperial aggression.
You should know better. Yes, Russia had legitimate security concerns. But NATO’s provocations did not justify a war which has likely killed hundreds of thousands of people in less than a year.
US/NATO put Putin in a bad position. But war was the wrong choice.
A bad peace is better than a good war.
Don’t fall for the Kremlin propaganda. Zelenskyy’s government is not a Nazi government and the Ukrainian people are overwhelmingly opposed to the Russian invasion.
I don’t ignore history. But THIS war is about the past 30 years of history. If, as you say, “Russia had legitimate security concerns”, why wouldn’t I think Russia’s invasion was because of those concerns? They practically begged for negotiations on those matters and were rebuffed. What part of that is propaganda? I don’t deny any parts of history that you keep bringing up, but I don’t think have anything to do with this invasion. Saying the war wasn’t justified doesn’t mean the reasons for the invasion changed.
NATO was in the wrong. Russia was in the right. But that did not justify this horrible war.
To paraphrase Shakespeare the question was “WhetherIt is better to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous misfortune. Or to take arms against a sea of troubles?” And by opposing those injustices with war creating even greater calamities.
Putin is fighting for a Russian version of the Monroe Doctrine. He believes Ukraine is part of Russia’s sphere of influence the way the US believes it has a sphere of influence in the Western hemisphere. Both doctrines are imperialist conceits and have nothing to do with liberation. Putin is fighting for a rebirth of Russian imperialism. Why do you support that? He is not fighting for liberation of oppressed people.
I don’t support imperialism. I’ve said repeatedly that Russia’s security concerns were genuine. The invasion didn’t change that. I can’t explain myself any better. If you want to insist that imperialism was the motive all along, that’s your right. I don’t believe the status quo was going to change, regarding US/NATO provocations, so I will also continue to believe that the invasion was inevitable.
Minsk Agreements were sabotaged by NATO, not by Russia. If NATO would bother about “Russian imperialism”, Merkel and Hollande must force Zelensky to carry out his obligations in accordance with Minsk agreements and then Donbass could be a part of Ukraine. Some people don’t know that until 2022 Putin was against the reunification of Donbass with Russia.
Minsk Agreements? There was no need for those. There was the Budapest Agreement that Russia clearly violated without any reason except to steal land from Ukraine.
Putin is full of sh!t, until February 2022, he told the world numerous times that he was not going to invade Ukraine while massing troops across their border and stated that it was all hysteria created by the West.
The dude is a liar and you are repeating his lies as usual. You are a relay antenna for the Kremlin.
Imperialist countries can have legitimate security concerns. But a legitimate security concern does not justify going to war.
The USA had a legitimate concern when Cuba allied with the USSR and stationed Soviet missiles 90 miles from Florida. But the US ultimately had to recognize that Cuba had the right to ally with the Soviet Union and the US had to agree to withdraw missiles from Turkey in return for withdrawal of the Soviet missiles from Cuba.
In Cuba the USA tried to enforce the Monroe Doctrine – the principle that the US can interfere in the foreign relationss of Latin American countries. Putin believes that Russia has a sphere of interest that gives Russia the right to interfere in the affairs of Ukraine, the other former Soviet Republics and other Slavic and East European countries.
Great read, keep them coming. I do appreciate it.
Thanks! It can get frustrating on this site sometimes. But these are mostly good people who will eventually understand what Putin’s war is about.
I hope you are right about the people.
Once more. The security concerns didn’t go away. Why you fixate on the justification of the invasion is beyond me. I said war was inevitable, not justified. Putin took the bait. That too was inevitable because the bait would have continued until Putin obliged.
Putin chose to invade. This is a classic war of choice. He is responsible for the consequences.
Countries that are invaded have the right to defend themselves. So if you agree that Putin’s invasion was not justified, don’t you recognize that the Ukrainians have the right to defend their country, to surrender or to decide when the time is right to negotiate with the invader?
Was the killing of ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine by the Kiev government justified? 14,000 people were killed over 8 years.
This may be hard for you to grasp, but the secessionist movement in Ukraine is an internal Ukrainian matter. Russia has no right to intervene. Do you think Nigeria has the right to invade the United States because of unjustified murders of African-Americans by US police?
From 2014 through 2021, 11,000 of the 14,000 Donbas casualties were combatants on both sides. There were about 3,000 civilian casualties over an eight year period. Almost all the casualties occurred in the first two years. According to Statista.com the civilian casualties in the Donbas civil war were:
This is not a genocide and not a justification for a war that has killed tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of people in less than a year. In fact the Donbas casualties drastically dropped to about 25 per year after Zelensky was elected president.
Anyway, as Naftali Bennett admitted, Putin doesn’t care about de-Nazification of Ukraine or the Russians in the Donbas. This is a revanchist war Putin is fighting to reset the geo-strategic setbacks Russia faces from 30 years of NATO expansion from 16 to 30 countries. Why should Russia’s decline as an imperial power be a problem for us? Do you believe the US has the right to tell Cuba or Mexico who they can ally with and to fight a war if they ally with Russia or China?
I wish Ukraine had closer ties to Russia and did not want to join NATO. Unfortunately, Putin’s invasion has achieved the exact opposite result that he claims he wanted. He has brought Ukraine into NATO, expanded NATO, united NATO against Russia, launched a war that his killed lots of Russians as well as Ukrainians. This kinda reminds me of the US in Vietnam. Eisenhower started the domino theory in 1954 when the French lost at Dien Bien Phu. By fighting the Vietnames Civil war the US made the Domino theory come true and when Vietnam fell Laos and Cambodia both fell to the communists within a few weeks.
Putin is lying and his war is unjustified. The Ukrainians are fighting a justified war of self defense which they will eventually win.
Here is a link to the Statista.com data on the civilian casualties in the Donbas war:
Yes, 14,000 people were killed there over 8 years. The single largest group out of that 14,000 were Ukrainian regime forces who were fighting the separatist and Russian forces which comprised the third largest group. In the middle were the civilians, “ethnic Russian” or not, murdered by Ukrainian, separatist, and Russian troops.
I thought you were anti-war.
I am anti-war.
Being anti-war means “opposing war,” not “accepting every factually unfounded bullshit excuse someone makes for a war they support.”
I didn’t say Ukraine didn’t have a right to defend their country. What I’m saying is Ukraine was put in a position where they had no choice. You keep talking about their right to negotiate “when the time is right” while continuing to ignore that they weren’t ALLOWED to negotiate when the time WAS right.
So if war was inevitable and Putin taking the bait was inevitable, why do you continue blaming the US for this war?
Who in the f*ck do you think put out the bait?
The invasion did not change Russia’s security interests. Russia’s interests remain genuine, but they are not as important as Russia’s aggression against Ukraine.
For generations the Tutsi minority persecuted the Hutu majority in Rwanda. Then, in the 1990’s the downtrodden majority Hutus succeeded in getting a government of the Hutu majority. But the Hutus then massacred hundreds of thousands of Tutsis. The Rwandan genocide was provoked by Tutsi oppression of Hutus, but the genocide was much worse than the oppression that provoked it.
Experienced anti-imperialists, like Chomsky and Ellsberg, recognize that Putin’s legitimate grievances do not justify a war to reset unfair geopolitical realities. Putin has a just cause. But a just cause does not justify an war of aggression by a big country against a small country, especially if the small country is a former subject of the imperial country.
For several months I resisted comparing Putin to Hitler. But Putin’s revanchism is the same as Hitler’s revanchism. Both claimed they had just cause to invade Poland and Ukraine. Both were at least partially right. But the wars were wars of choice and conquest that had terrible consequences for the entire world.
” Putin is fighting for a rebirth of Russian imperialism.”
No, Putin is fighting for the security of Russia against an aggressor that has been trying to ethnically cleanse the eastern part of Ukraine.
Hitler was fighting for the security of Germany and the protection of Germans in S
silesia when he invaded Poland. Hitler and Putin were both wrong. The consequences of Putin’s war are much worse than the causes.
After what happened to Germany after WW I at Versailles is it any wonder that Hitler rose to power and was concerned with the security of Germany? Read Pat Buchanan’s book, “Churchill, Hitler, and the Unnecessary War” to get a good education on WW I and WW II. The consequences of “Putin’s War” are that the U.S. is using Ukrainians to bleed Russia to death. The U.S. has thwarted any peace negotiations. The U.S. has been planning for this war for a very long time, and the news media here have been busy indoctrinating the people to view Putin as an evil monster. The U.S. always has to demonize whoever they want removed from power. That’s how they get the people to support their evil machinations.
What you and some others commenters on this site don’t understand is the difference between a justified grievance and a justification for a war. Almost all wars have just causes. But a just cause does not justify starting a war, which is what Putin and Hitler did. The negative consequences of war almost always are far worse than the causes. Putin’s war in Ukraine is no exception. An average of 26 civilians were killed annually in the Donbas secessionist war in the three years before the February 2022 invasion. There is no justification for the claim by Putin’s apologists that there was a genocide occurring in Donbas.
The Russian federation has been at war every year since 1991 except for 1998. By contrast, China has been at peace for almost 70 years except for a one month long war to punish Vietnam in 1979. Russia under Putin first attempted to join the NATO G7 anti-China bloc and has always tried to advance a racist form of Russian chauvinism. Whether the ideology is the master race, the chosen people, manifest destiny, American exceptionalism or Great Russian chauvinism with archbishop Kirill proclaiming Putin to be a god sent savior on a mission to restore Rjussian greatness, the exceptionalist supremist ideology is the basis for imperial conquest, not peace.
I am familiar with Buchannan’s argument that WWII was unjustified, I disagree. Hitler used German’s just grievances to justify a campaign of racism, anti-Semitism and imperial conquest. Like Hitler, Putin is using justified grievances to justify a terrible war. Putin’s war is not aimed a liberating anyone. It is a cynical attempt to reset the geo-strategic landscape of Europe and the world. It is revanchism and it needs to be stopped.
I am against the uni-polar world. But Putin’s vision is a world dominated by several great imperial powers, not one. Putin sees the former Soviet Union, the Balkans and East Europe as part of Russia’s national sphere of influence. That is not the solution to US/NATO hegemony. Putin’s imperialistic war is part of the problem, not part of the solution to hegemony. Russian imperialism is one of the monstrous forms of Euro-Centric imperialism that we need to move beyond to achieve a better post-imperialistic world.
Evidently you have a magical transponder or wire hooked up to Putin’s brain so you know his every thought and what he is planning and plotting. America is the real imperialistic country with her monstrous machinations around the world. Hell, the news media keep telling us how poorly trained and poorly equipped the Russian army is, and yet with that piss poor army Putin thought he could reconstitute the Soviet Union. General Millely tells us that Russia has already lost in Ukraine. LOL! If Putin were imperialistic he would have annexed the Donbass regions back in 2014 when he could have easily done it. In the last thirty years, how many countries has America invaded? How many has Russia?
I don’t need telepathy to read Putin. I judge Putin by his actions and to a lesser extent by his words. He is a classic racist Russian chauvinist who doesn’t believe in the existence of the Ukrainian nation that is resisting and defeating his army. You say “America is the real imperialist country.” That is not true. America is the main imperialistic country. There are other imperialistic countries. Russia is one of them.
Actually, Russia is almost as warlike as America over the past 40 years. Since the USSR broke up Russia has been at war every year except 1998 plus the ten year long Soviet war with Afghanistan.. Putin regards the former soviet republics, the Balkans and East Europe as Russia’s sphere of influence. To me that is a Russian version of the USA’s Monroe Doctrine. Imperialistic.
Yes, when it comes to regime change, the CIA and State Dept. just use the same recipe over and over. I guess we can thank the Dulles brothers for that.
“But THIS war is about the past 30 years of history”
How convenient. You are so full of sh!t.
Convenient? That’s when the cold war ended. What part of Russia’s security concerns started before then?
Wars r us will pose the same question in a few days. It’s his favorite playbook line.
I didn’t pose any question.
Wars will continue as long as both sides think they can win.
“”asymmetric wars of national resistance.'”
did you just buy a vowel?
at some point everybody buys a vowel. and then they slip into the darkness.
I do hope the slipping starts soon.
What’s he going to do when he clicks his heels and discovers that he’s still not in Kansas anymore?
Your naiivete is showing. If hearts and minds determined the outcome of wars, Colorado would still be part of Mexico and Panama would still be part of Colombia. Venezuela and Cuba would be thriving nations and Reza Pahlavi would never have ruled as a dictator over Iran. Native American tribes would occupy all the land in America west of the Mississippi. And I could go on.
Great Power struggles are real and we are involved in one now. The US is struggling to maintain unipolar military and economic dominance in the world and Russia and China threaten that dominance. That is the Great Powers picture of what is happening. Ukraine is just a sacrificial pawn for the US in the big game. The hearts and minds of Ukrainians are trivial in that.
Hearts and minds do determine outcomes in wars of national resistance. The Cuban people and the people of the Southwest were not particulaly loyal to the corrupt Mexican government or the Spanish colonial overlords. The US could never conquer Cuba today. But in 1898 the Cubans were not going to fight to keep the Spanish Viceroy. I applaud the Mexican Revolution for abolishing slavery. But Santa Ana was no saint and Mexicans were not going to lay down their lives for his corrupt oppressive military dictatorship.
Not all invasions evoke popular national resistance. If the regime is unpopular, the indigenous people will not support it. For example, India successfully invaded East Pakistan in 1971 because the Bengali people were revolting against the Pakistani government and did not resist the Indians.
I didn’t want Ukraine to orient toward the West and I supported Putin’s demand that Ukraine be neutral and give autonomy and/or permit a fair plebiscite supervised by neutrals in the Donbas. I supported the 2014 annexation of Crimea. I thought the February 2022 invasion was wrong. But I observed for a few weeks until I was sure that the Ukrainian resistance had widespread popular support, that Ukrainians were opposed to the Russian invasion and that Russia could not win the war. . It was only a few months later that I realized Putin was a revanchist and that the Russian narrative about Ukraine being controlled by Nazis and a genocide occurring in Donbas was largely false. I am not saying that there anr not Nazis in Ukraine or that there are not ethnic tensions in Donbas. But these arfe internal Ukrainian matters that don’t justify the catastrophic war the Putin started.
i listend carefully to Putins claims of a Nazi takeover and a genocide in Ukraine and in the first few weeks of the war I was r
Stoltenberg: the von der Leyen of NATO.
Von der Liar number two.
The flooding Ukraine with NATO weapons will affect the outcome of this war but not in favor of NATO. It can make it only longer and more destructive. Longer it lasts, deeper will be the economic and political crisis in EU.
You talk as if Russia is immune to what’s happening in Ukraine.
Russia isn’t the one breaking apart.
Not yet, they are not but I wouldn’t put my money on that statement.
I am hoping regime change comes before Russia breaks apart.
That is a possibility.
And you talk as if you don’t really care if Ukraine is destroyed as a result.
I think you’ve touched it, WR. From the nature of the escalation, the obviating negotiated agreement, intro of chlorine gas and imminent intro of depleted uranium, ling range shells, … etc., it begins to look like the ‘big think’ neocons all along assigned only a ‘minor’ role to the Ukraine, a probative live fire pawn, absorbing Russian fire and exposing the capabilities of Her war machine, … gradually inuring the NATO street to the idea of the inevitability of a showdown with Russia -the big steel cage death match. The next front will be Poland, when Washington deems the US and W. Europe ready.
Is not that I don’t care, it’s that I know what they are fighting for and there’s nothing that will stop them from fighting except themselves. If I was Ukrainian, I’d be in the frontlines fighting for my country and families.
Like I have said numerous times before, Ukrainians will fight with or without any external support. They are fighting for identity and independence. And if the US couldn’t beat a primitive force in the Taliban, I hardly doubt the Russians with their Army in life support will beat a country with fighters that truly know how to fight.
The Taliban and the VC knew how to fight on their own turf. As did the Continental Army that defeated the redcoats and their Hessian mercenaries.
They’re fighting for the US/NATO. If I was a Ukrainian, I’d refuse to fight a proxy war for anyone. And without any external “support” this war would have never started.
Well, that’s your problem, you don’t believe in the Ukrainian identity.
Without external support Ukraine would be either another Belarus or an ongoing battle. Again, Putin does not believe Ukraine is a country.
The invasion was going to happen not matter what.
” If I was Ukrainian, I’d be in the frontlines fighting for my country and families.”
Why don’t you go over to Ukraine and join the fight?
Because he is not an Ukrainian.
This is a war of self defense by the Ukrainian people. Only the Ukrainian people can determine when it is time to negotiate. Same as the VC or the Taliban. There will be negotiations when the Ukrainians beleive the time is right.
It was a war of self defense by the eastern Ukrainian people to stave off the genocide.
And yet they weren’t allowed to negotiate. And that was when a lot more people were still living.
The West wanted the war because it was a trap for Putin. Also everyone, including Zelenskyy who fled to Lyiv, underestimated the determination of the Ukrainian people to fight the Russians. I knew this war was a trap for Russia. But I never believed the Ukrainian army would survive more than a month or so. I believed the Russians would occupy a large part of Ukraine and find themselves fighting an intractable Ukrainian resistance until the Russians gave up and left.
BTW, Johnson, Biden and NATO cannot stop Ukraine from negotiation if that is what the Ukrainians decide to do. NATO encouraged the war, but US tried to encourage the Afghan warlords and the Cuban Gusanos and the ARVN in Vietnam. If the Ukrainians decide they don’t want to fight for their self determination, nothing the West can do can prevent them from surrendering to Russia. The US/NATO imperialists have funded many opposition movements. But US/NATO funding has never succeeded in motivating people. The Ukrainian resistance is real.
“But US/NATO funding has never succeeded in motivating people” So true.
Notice that Wars R Us has zero issues with all the absurd BS comments the pro Russian folks post here.
I have a lot of respect for Wars-R-Us. He is wrong on the issue of Ukraine. But he is sincere and dedicated to a world without wars.
For an old time activist like me, it is frustrating to see the Ukraine War unfolding like a slow motion train wreck I have watched over and over again. These imperial wars of aggression and conquest always start out with a plausible grievance. Sometimes even a true grievance. The leaders are always confident that overwhelming military superiority will insure a quick and decisive victory. But these men who achieved power through ruthlessness and manipulation never appreciate the power of a popular opposition to wear down and eventually defeat a more powerful military. A Peter Paul and Mary sang 60 years ago “When will they ever learn?”
I respect Wars-R-Us. And I believe he will eventually see that Putin is using legitimate grievances to justify an illegitimate war.
As Master Yoda said, the road to the Dark Side is easy. You pursue the good, as my father did, and don’t realize when you have crossed over until it is too late. Putin crossed to the Dark Side when he ordered troops to cross the Ukrainian border.
To switch metaphors, it can be hard to follow Star Fleet’s Prime Directive. But intervention by great power into the affairs of a lesser power by waging war almost always has disastrous consequences for both.
Like Wars-R-Us I want to see this war end. But I recognize that Ukrainians are willing to risk their lives for what they view as freedom and self determination. They have that right. Putin’s invasion was wrong and Russia needs to withdraw from Ukraine. Eventually Russia will have a leadership that recognizes Putin’s war is unwinnable.
“He is wrong on the issue of Ukraine”
Ukraine is being used as cannon fodder for the US/NATO to fight a proxy war with Russia. Am I close?
The West is supporting Ukraine to get at Russia. That is correct from the standpoint of the West..
But that is not how the Ukrainians view the war. They are fighting in defense of their homeland against an invasion by Ukraine’s former imperial overlord. It is the Ukrainian POV that matters to me
The Ukrainians see themselves as freedom fighters, not cannot fodder.
The US used the Soviet people as cannon fodder to bear the brunt of fighting the Nazis in WWII. But that did not make the Soviets cannon fodder. Nor did the US aid provide motivation for the red Army (including 7 miillion Ukrainians) to heroically fight the Nazis.
The Ukrainians are fighting the same kind of struggle against the Russians today. They are not cannon fodder any more than the Red Army was cannon fodder.
If I were an informed Ukrainian, I’d refuse to fight a proxy war. I don’t know why you think the Ukrainians are that gullible.
I can only fuck with so many people.
Russia is benefitting from this war. The state bureaucracy last year improved a lot. If the war lasts longer (many people in Russia are hoping for that), Russian government and the political elite in general, may eventually get rid of the pro-American officials.
If Russia is a state that benefits from imperial war, then it is a threat to most of the human race, just like US/NATO.
Russia is fighting an anti-imperial war. The war against American oligarchy imperialism. It looks you don’t understand the meaning of the word empire. Reuniting the Russian regions populated by Russian people which were separated from Russia by the criminal Bolshevik gang, is not the imperialism. Every nation has right for reunification. Even Germans, though once reunited they immediately started to think about the revanche war against Russia. Despite the fact that Germany was reunited exclusively because of Russia’s good will. Russian people know all this and that is the reason why they are united around Putin.
You are advocating for the kind of tribalism that was practiced by Nazi Germany and Zionist Israel. No nation has the right to expand its territory by conquering the territory of another nation. Russians who live in Ukraine are Ukrainians. If they want to be Russians, they can emigrate to Russia. Civilized people understand that citizenship is based on internationally recognized boundaries, not ethnicity. Pan-Russian chauvinism embraced by Putin and endorsed by you is racism and a prescription for barbarism.
That is the stupidest comment I’ve read today.
“many people in Russia are hoping for that” Until citizens of Moscow start to lose their sons. They are OK with Russians from the East or Prisoners dying, but wait until it their sons turn.
It may not ever be their sons’ turns. Estimates of how many people have fled Russia since last February run from a low end of half a million to a high end of more than a million. And that’s almost certainly heavily weighted toward the military-age sons of middle- to upper-class Muscovites, not farmers from Khabarovsk Krai.
It isn’t that expensive compared to the size of the economies the other effect will be the destruction of the Russian military for at least a generation and possibly much longer.
Only people detached from the reality can believe in American victory in this war.
The only victory most Americans want if for Ukraine to be free of Russia and that’s not far from reality except for you and your team here of anti US.
Yes, please let Ukraine get back to that wonderful Jeffersonian democracy that they enjoyed pre-invasion. That’s what we Americans want.
No, Americans don’t want that. But the US has been assisting the Ukraine government for years to combat corruption. Ukrainians have been working for years to change the Russian culture of corruption they inherited. It has been slow progress but still moving in the right direction. Ukraine corruption is more lower levels in comparison with Russia where it mainly happens at the higher levels and stealing exponentially more from their people.
“But the US has been assisting the Ukraine government for years to combat corruption.”
I couldn’t read past that sentence.
Because you are anti US, I get it.
The US is not just an evil force, it does a lot of great things all over the world.
Have you considered moving to Russia, China, or any other country that is not US friendly?
If you are unhappy with the US, it’s never too late to change country code.
Yes Don, it is because I’m anti-US. It couldn’t be because I’ve seen what our benevolent actions have done all over the world since ww2. And especially since 9/11. And how about you move, Don? We need to get rid of you ass kissers that think their country can do no wrong and blindly follow along while we bomb and starve with impunity.
I am not so sure that most Americans want what their government is doing.
Most Americans are clueless.
America isn’t in this war. America has already won, Russia has lost half its tanks at a cost of no American casualties. When you see your opponent making a mistake, don’t stop him.
Yes, no American casualties. Never mind the hundreds of thousands that have died, we won because Russia lost half of its tanks. There are just too many Madeline Albrights still breathing.
If Vladimir Putin had asked me if he should invade Ukraine, I would have told him not to do it. The choice was his, now if you try to say “he had no choice” then I have to wonder why we have leaders at all as apparently they could be replaced by some kind of deterministic clockwork machine.
It was your “it was worth it” tone that I was replying to.
Putin did something incredibly stupid. He did not have to invade Ukraine. I am unhappy that he gave the US a cheap victory over Russia. But thw war was Putin’s choice.
A bad peace is better than a good war.
Putin’s follyjust proves that the law of blowback works agaisnt imperialist aggression in the Post WW II era. Blowback has beaten the US, France, Portugal, the USSR and now Russia. The imperialist leaders never understand the limits of their power in asymmetric warfare. They alwasy learn the hard way. I have watched these slow motion train wrecks for over 60 years since the French got their asses kicked in Algerian and the US won every battle with the VC only to lose a ten year long war.
Putin was in a bad situation a year ago. But a bad situation does not justify a war of aggression that Russia is losing. ,
The Victory in Ukraine will be a victory for the Ukrainian people over Russian imperialism.
Russia is using ammunition at 4 or 5 times the rate that Ukraine is using ammunition. China would be 10 times.
Russia by some reliable estimates is firing 10x what Ukraine fires. Furthermore, it has it to fire, and is making more at those rates.
The US used to brag about tens of thousands of sent ammunition rounds. Now that they say that more than a million have been sent, it is clear that tens of thousands is a very small percentage of what is needed.
British and other Western arms makers want to start manufacturing weapons inside Ukraine.
So on top of everything else, they want to give our jobs away…
“our jobs” One minute you are supporting Russia and next you are complaining about job loss in the US. Just what side are you on?
Adolfo is not American. He’s a Z carrier.
America’s… America First! 🇺🇸
If they run out of ammo that does not mean the killing will stop. The US has always been creative with their destruction. AQs long as nothing happens to our homeland the war profiteers will keep up or increase the supply of death weapons possible including Biological weapons. These people are capable of anything.Besides this is only a minor skirmish on the way to fighting the Chinese who are competing successfully in world markets.If anyone or any country is a threat to US dominance they have to be destroyed or neutered.
Should the West exhaust war reserve stockpiles, hoping it would have time to rebuild before any future need?
They are for a war, but for our own defense. Is that really what we are doing in Ukraine?
Is regime change in Russia the self-defense goal of the US, for which we should expend our war reserves?
I wish I had a dollar for every time the US decided to send troops to the other side of the world to “defend itself”.
“To offset the strain on NATO stockpiles and to make more money from the war…”
That right there sums up the measure of the West’s involvement: PROFIT. If there were no money to be made from this, Ukrainian ‘freedom’ would just be something spray-painted on a wall just before Russian troops roll by.
The MIC is loving it. But Hillary/Obama must have wanted something more when she escalated US involvement in “soft” regime change there in 2014.
Or perhaps she was attempting to deny something to Russia. Sevastopol and uranium come to mind.
America is prolonging this war to “weaken Russia”. But it sounds more like Russia is weakening NATO. Russia isn’t running out of missiles. Russia isn’t running out of bullets.
Are they not running out of ammunitions? Do they have unlimited supply or weapons? Doesn’t their military budget get scrubbed by 40% annually due to corruption?
Why is it that Russian fighters in the frontline complaint about not having enough ammo to fight? Why have their daily artillery and missile attacks decreased in the last few months? Even pro Russian pundits admit openly to that but not you. You have better information.
Their missile attacks may have reduced, but that’s not what the intelligence community promised america and Ukraine. They said Russia would be “out of missiles” by now, and they’re not.
I never claimed that Russia had infinite ammo. I never claimed Russia’s military wasn’t corrupt (speaking of corrupt money wasting, remind me, who’s MIC “accidentally” loses 21 trillion dollars? was that Russia or America?)
That the best you can claim is that artillery and missile attacks decreased is very telling.
You have accused me of claiming otherwise. But that’s plainly a lie. I never ever claimed otherwise. It’s a testament to either your intelligence or you honesty, but I can’t say which.
Even the Russian hardliners recognize that Russia has not been able to supply its front line troops. That is why Putin keeps changing commanders and he fired the general in charge of procurement.
Oh “even” them. Sure!! Because you say so?
I don’t know the specifics of the supply lines to the front line. But I do know that the american intelligence community claimed that Russia would be out of missiles this summer or fall, but they’ve sustained shooting missiles into the winter.
I’m not a “Russian hardliner”. I don’t want Russia to win. I don’t want Ukraine to win. I don’t want America to win. I want the war to end.
I side with the victims. In this case it is Ukraine. I defer to the Ukrainians on when it is time to end the war.
“Ukraine” is not a victim. Victim is a category that applies to individuals. Ukraine is a country.
As for the people in the government of Ukraine, they are anything but innocent victims. They post hit lists of political dissidents, with photos of their mutilated bodies after the targets are killed. They sell positions in government for money. They make it illegal to be part of opposition parties. They’ve been shelling their own citizens for the past 8 years. They are disgusting and bloodthirsty monsters.
The victims are Ukrainians and Russians both. The criminals are their own governments.
The victims are the Ukrainian people. The Russians are responsible for Putin the same way the Germans were responsible for Hitler’s revanchism.
The majority of Germany were not Nazis and were not responsible in any way. Kinda like Russia.
But if this is your standard, at least be consistent. The Ukrainian people must be responsible for their disgusting and corrupt government too.
People are responsible for what their democratically elected governments do. Ukrainians are responsible for what their government does. If the Ukrainian government allows or encourages oppression of some of its citizens, the Ukrainian people bear some responsibility, just as Americans are responsible for permitting the racial oppression of Black people, Chicanos and Native Americans. But unless Ukraine invades Russia or commits genocide, the status of Ukrainian citizens in Donbas is an internal Ukrainian matter. There is no evidence that there was genocide in Donbas.
When the Soviet Union dissolved 30 years ago to become today’s Russia, Russia wanted to be a part of the Western alliance. We kicked them in the face by saying no, then began pushing NATO to the East. I believe Russia took notice and began preparing for this time in history, and I mean prepare, as in manufacturing and storing war materials. Russia knew that the final link in the eventual encirclement would be the entrance of Ukraine into NATO. The world, a multi-polar world, could have been safer today, more prosperous.
” Russia wanted to be a part of the Western alliance.” What a joke that idea was. That like the fox wanting to sleep in the hen house. What could go wrong with that?
More like when Joey Gallo, the upstart boss of the New York Mafia Coloumbo family, wanted to be part of the New York syndicate. After the big boys froze Joey out he built the Columbo family into an independent competing operation by hiring the first Black gangsters into the all-Italian Mafia. I am all for integration. But Joey and the Columbos were still gangsters. Putin is a wannabe imperialist dictator. Just because he is hated by the bigger imperialists, doesn’t make him deserving of our support.
You got this story all mixed up.
Putin asked Clinton when he would let Russia become a part of NATO in 1999, I recall.
What was the response? I imagine that both the Clintons broke out in a hysterical fit of uncontrolled laughter.
So Putin wanted to be part of NATO and the anti-China G7/G8. That just proves that Russia is a revanchist wannabe imperialist country. They wanted to be part of the action and the big boys in the syndicate froze them out.
I support liberation and self determination, not my favorite imperialist power. Why do you support Russian imperialism?
According to Wikipedia the Russian Federation has been engaged in 14 wars since 1991. Russia has been at war every year except 1998. The Ukrainian war is based on Putin’s version of the Monroe Doctrine. Putin believes that Russia has a sphere of influence that gives it the right to intervene in countries that were part of the former Soviet Union or in the Slavic world. Why do you accept this blatant imperialist worldview?
Russia has no more right to dictate Ukraine’s policies and alliances than the US has to dictate to Cuba or Mexico.
……or Ukraine, Iraq, Syria, Serbia, Vietnam, Western Hemisphere, Afghanistan and Iraq.
The US has no right to dictate Ukraine’s policies. And Zelenskyy’s full court press for tanks that the US did not want to give and planes that the US does not want to give show that the Ukrainian resistance is not controlled by the US. I am certain the US would like to control Ukraine. But the US has no more influence over the Ukrainian resistance than it had over the mujahideen the US supported against the USSR.
“NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said” is almost always understood to prefix claims that are incorrect/dishonest.
Why believe that these claims, but only these claims, are correct/honest?
Because the evidence supports his statement. However the basis of his statements focus on more spending on ammunition.
They will fight to the last Ukrainian and they will fight to the last US dollar. When the US collapses the oligarch’s will flee to another host to bleed dry.
How else will NATO fight to the last Ukranian?
More expenditures in an effort to plunder.
Some comments here suggest we are now seeing the West move back to the idea of an endless insurgency in Ukraine, to bleed Russia for having won.
Well, Putin knows that too. He has dealt with it, in Syria and in Chechnya. He is completely ruthless and bloody minded about it, but he does win the insurgency too.
That is perhaps the worst possible thing that the West could do to Ukraine, throwing it into that. They could have had Minsk 2, they could have had the Turkish deal last March.
Perhaps the EU will welcome the vast outpouring of refugees that will never leave. See how it was in Syria, and realize that Ukraine was twice the size, with no Turkey or Lebanon to absorb any of it.
Who employed the nazi Stoltenberg to decide the fates of the world anyway? Does he think we don’t know his hand in the NATO provocations ? The other way around, this freak would be citing R2P and be done with it.
“The other way around, this freak would be citing R2P and be done with it” – that’s exactly how it works. Some people call it double standard but actually it is a kind of the racism or Nazism. The essence is the same.
So basically NATO finally confirmed what Russian sources have been saying for MONTHS. And also confirmed Russian sources saying that Russia is gaining territory in Ukraine
Right now Russia is flat out winning. NATO thinks that 5x NATO artillery production is sufficient to even up the odds, Russia estimates 10x.
Either way, it is looking like the rest of February and all of March will be brutal for Ukraine. The announced military support that NATO talks about supplying Ukraine with would lead to an even more brutal April and May. It is not clear when unannounced military assets will show up, or where.
US Tells Americans to Leave Russia ASAP!
Martin Armstrong points to April 23-24 as an important timeframe.
“Stoltenberg Says Ukraine Using Way More Munitions Than NATO Can Produce The NATO chief says the war is depleting the alliance’s stockpiles”
Russia has natural resources, an educated populace, and factories. Russia produces 298,000 artillery shells each month and maybe more nos that their factories are working 24/7.
America produces 15,000 artillery shells a month.
One Russian factory produces 80 tanks a month and then there are several other factories.
America does not make new tanks they just re-manufacture older M1 tanks to a buyers specifications.
Even with America’s dumbed down education you can see the disparity.
Some Euroatlantic elites are begging for a war with Russia, raindancing for it. As if destroying Russia is a requirement for a new Messiah to come to Earth and secure their perpetual mastery over the globe.
Macchiaveli’s wisdom applies to this moment. He said:
“Challenging an established system and forcingva change will bring about all the enmity of those who stand to lose, and bring about only a lukewarm support from those that stand to benefit from it.”.
Russia stood up to the existing order, by design or circumstances. And is challenging existing Western “rules based” order. Those who benefited from the order are sticking together in amimosity to Russia, even by damaging themselves. They are aware of stakes, and are all in.
But the rest of the world that stands to gain from the dismantling of pseudo-colonial “democracy” only
half-heartedly in. With the exception of China that gets it. Most other places are either with Russia but keep on transactional relationships with West, or are with West and keep on transactional relationships with Russia.
Will the awarenes change? Will it become clearer what is at stake ? Will many countries go through crisis that will pit the legacy systems pro-Western by default or by bribery and bring a more nationally minded elite foreard? Or oust national interest minded to restore cimpradir system of West bestowed privledges to those that serve?
Best example is Pakistan, where old comprador style elite suceeded by bribery to orchestrate a Parliamentary coup and oust natiinalist minded Khan. Now Pakistan is back in its role of warlord communuty that rents its subjects into Western militancy, Good old days of American organizinng militant groups to penetrate vulnerable Afghanistan, and through it, penetrate Central Asia, Russia, China.
Millions of poor are at US disposal. Pakistan solves its employment problem,
And while fighting on European front. Russia is trying to get India to wake up and get involved in shoring up weak Afghan government to prevent new militants to take hold.
Biden is probably the most energetic president when it comes to world wide investment in new versions of al-Qarda or ISIS. He is still using these brand names that exist no more — taking time to formulate new terrorists, new “plucky” resistance or “freedom fighters”.
Where is all this money coming from?
Anyone noticed the shockingly long times to get doctors appointments or heavens forbid needs a hip surgery? There are consequenes to money going into militancy .
Assumptions that militancy is the only solution to coexistence in this world is a real problem.
For elite — no sweat. They do not feel it on their skin.
The US is actively recruiting Islamists for terrorist attacks against Russia. The use of jihadists to achieve Washington’s goals is a constant theme of the last few decades.
The US instigated an Islamist uprising in Russia-allied Syria that eventually led to Al-Qaeda’s Al-Nusra and ISIS taking large swathes of territory and murdering civilians for years.
The weaponisation of jihadists appear as Jens Stoltenberg admits that the alliance has depleted stocks of munitions and NATO is loosing the war.
Arrest Biden et al. and present them to the Hague.
Nothing new about that. They did the same 30 years ago in Chechnya.
The 155 round is one of the most used artillery size in the world. There are plenty of rounds in South America and the far East just waiting to be purchased.
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