A high-level British general has warned that sending 14 Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine could leave the British military “temporarily weaker,” The Times reported on Monday.
Gen. Patrick Sanders, Britain’s chief of the general staff, said sending the tanks would leave a “gap” in the British military inventory and would make it hard for London to meet its NATO commitments. According to numbers from early 2022, the UK has 227 Challenger 2 tanks, compared with over 6,000 main battle tanks that the US possesses.
“Ukraine needs our tanks and guns now. I know they will put them to good use. And there can be no better cause,” Sanders said in a video posted on the British Army’s intranet that was leaked to the media. “Giving away these capabilities will leave us temporarily weaker as an army, there is no denying it.”
The Times cited “defense insiders” who said Sanders’ comments were likely an effort to make sure the British Defense Ministry replaces what it sends to Ukraine. “There is no doubt that our choice will impact on our ability to mobilize the Army against the acute and enduring threat Russia presents and meet our Nato obligations,” Sanders said.
“It is vital that we restore and enhance the army’s warfighting capability at pace to reinforce our combat credibility and retain our position as the leading European ally in NATO,” he added.
The UK currently plans to upgrade 148 of its 227 Challenger 2s into Challenger 3s, which would cut the rest of the tanks that won’t be upgraded. But British Defense Secretary Ben Wallace said he’s reconsidering the plan in light of the situation in Ukraine.
“Even as we gift Challenger 2 tanks, I shall at the same time be reviewing the number of Challenger 3 conversions to consider whether the lessons of Ukraine suggest that we need a larger tank fleet,” he said.
Britain’s pledge to send 14 tanks to Ukraine falls far short of the 300 the commander of Ukraine’s armed forces said he needs to have a chance of pushing Russia out of Ukrainian territory. Poland says it’s ready to send 14 German-made Leopard tanks, a plan that needs to be signed off by Berlin.
The Challenger 2s will be the first Western-made heavy tanks provided to Ukraine, marking a significant escalation of military aid to Kyiv. Russia has strongly warned against the move, but the Western powers no longer seem concerned about the possibility that sending the tanks could escalate the war. The Kremlin said Monday that any British tanks sent to Ukraine “will burn.”
Britain’s foreign policy is clearly NATO first, British people last. I hope leaving the EU so you can have this “independent” foreign policy was worth it. Even the EU ruled by hawks are sending their own tanks….
Don Julio:
Again you vote someone down and do not even bother to say why. I’m sure we would all like to know why….
If I remember correctly, less than two years ago the UK made the decision to deactivate its armor units and get out of the tank business (much like our Marine Corps). So, while I am against any weapons going to the Ukraine- period- the argument that sending these tanks would make the UK ‘weaker’ seems a bit hollow. They already did that to themselves.
” I am against any weapons going to the Ukraine” That is interesting, so you just want to let Russia come in and kill Ukrainians at will and take what ever land they want. The citizens living in Ukraine disagree with your idea.
If knowing that the weapons going into Ukraine were insufficient for Ukraine to win the war with Russia, I would imagine the citizens of Ukraine might think differently. When the US/NATO readily admit to not wanting direct confrontation with Russia they might realize that they are being used as cannon fodder and therefore not be so willing to die.
Interestingly, one of the underrated criteria in Just War philosophy is probability of success. A war is not just, even if all the other prongs of the theory are met, if the cause is either futile, or if disproportionate means are required to achieve success.
That whole Just War nonsense is someone idea how to justify not obeying the 5th commandment. You know “Thou shall not kill”.
Tell that to our Cadaver-in-Chief, who pretends to be a practicing Catholic.
Centuries of moral philosophy dismissed in a childish, one line blog comment.
The point is, Kenny, that your boys in the Ukraine are “killing” too, as well as the Russians. If it were all as simple as a simpleton like you makes it out to be, there is no reason why the Ukies shouldn’t just refrain from killing as well as the Russians.
And, don’t get back to me about how it isn’t that simple, how there is a moral difference, etc, because you just said that any kind of attempt to think about it in a more sophisticated, educated manner is just “nonsense” and “someone [sic] idea.”
Run along now, the adults are talking.
‘thou shalt not murder’ is the 6th commandment.
the 5th commandment is ‘honor thy mother and father’.
hilarious that the 1st commandment is ‘thou shalt not have any other gods than me’.
Drive-by war monger can’t even get that right! LOL!
Nope, the citizens of Ukraine will fight to the bitter end. They know the alternative is very bad for them. They want their freedom from Russia. And the more civilians Russia kills the stronger the Ukrainians desire will be.
So, they ignore not being armed enough to win the war like you ignore them not being armed to win the war? Got it.
Just…OMG.
You want Ukrainians to die to “strengthen them”?
Where the f*ck you comin’ from?
maybe he knows about a secret commandment
And millions of people worldwide would disagree with your assumption that Ukraine is going to best Russia; the very idea is ludicrous. The only good thing for the Ukrainian people would be to have their egotistical, self-serving “leader” agree to negotiate an end to this sh*tshow.
People are DYING because the United Snakes wishes to “weaken Russia”.
I have to wonder at the lack of wisdom on our elected officials part. For myself, personally, I have no desire to see WWIII. The operative word is ESCALATE and everyone knows what that leads to.
500,000 Germans signed a petition to stop this too (machine translation):
Open letter to Chancellor Scholz
we welcome the fact that you had so far so carefully considered the risks: the risk of the war spreading within Ukraine; the risk of it spreading to the whole of Europe; indeed, the risk of a 3rd world war.
We therefore hope that you will return to your original position and not supply, either directly or indirectly, further heavy weapons to Ukraine. On the contrary, we urge you to do everything you can to help bring about a ceasefire as soon as possible; a compromise that both sides can accept.
We share the judgment of the Russian aggression as a breach of the basic norm of international law. We also share the conviction that there is a principled political and moral duty not to retreat from aggressive force without a fight back. But anything that can be derived from this has limits in other precepts of political ethics.
We are convinced that two such boundary lines have now been reached: First, the categorical prohibition of accepting a manifest risk of escalation of this war into a nuclear conflict. The delivery of large quantities of heavy weapons, however, could make Germany itself a party to the war. And a Russian counterattack could thus then trigger the mutual assistance case under the NATO treaty and thus the immediate danger of a world war. The second borderline is the level of destruction and human suffering among the Ukrainian civilian population. Even justified resistance to an aggressor is at some point unbearably disproportionate to this. https://www.change.org/p/offener-brief-an-bundeskanzler-scholz
It takes courage to standup to aggression. The Ukrainians have it and so does most Germans. These 500,000 Germans do not.
It takes more courage to stand up to insanity and widespread propaganda.
“Silence becomes cowardice when occasion demands speaking out the whole truth and acting accordingly.”
― Mahatma Gandhi
“The simple step of a courageous individual is not to take part in the lie. “One word of truth outweighs the world.”
― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn..
“But I suppose the most revolutionary act one can engage in is… to tell the truth.”
― Howard Zinn, Marx in Soho: A Play on History
“In a room where people unanimously maintain a conspiracy of silence,one word of truth sounds like a pistol shot.”
― Czesław Miłosz
… it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or anyone else.”
― Theodore Roosevelt
And you are operating from the point of view that war in Ukraine is just a US/NATO propaganda event. It is not. It is about Russian aggression. Any argument that Russia is acting in self defense is just stupid. With 6000 nuclear warheads or so, what does Russia have to fear from Ukraine?
It’s a US proxy war.
What is the point of this kind of “drive by” comment? Do you think we haven’t already heard that encapsulated BS, like, ten million times already? We don’t buy it, Kenny. And you have read, if you are paying any attention at all, our reasons for not buying it, many, many times. What does it add to the conversation for you to simply reiterate the standard, “short form,” MSM, NATO, Ukie line in this way?
I am operating in reality. Come join me.
From March:
Ex US official admits Ukraine conflict is NATO ‘proxy war with Russia’
Former US State Department official Eliot Cohen stated openly that the conflict in Ukraine is a NATO “proxy war with Russia,” and called for using the country to kill as many Russian soldiers as possible, “the more and faster the better.”
2022-03-24
“When you’re at war, you’re at war,” the saying goes, and if so, you have to accept the implications. So too in the present circumstance. The United States and its NATO allies are engaged in a proxy war with Russia. ~Eliot A. Cohen
US Army Europe Commander Ben Hodges that the US should aim for “breaking the back of Russia.” A recent New York Times editorial also invoked the prospect of “bringing Russia to its knees.”
Obama defense secretary Leon Panetta says NATO is in a “proxy war” with Russia
Leon Panetta, the former US secretary of defense and CIA director under Barack Obama and White House chief of staff under Bill Clinton, said Thursday that the United States is involved in a proxy war with Russia in Ukraine.
Lot of courage it takes to hang up a flag and cheerlead as grandpas and teens are dragooned into the trenches to fight with rifles (if they are lucky enough to have one, and to have been trained on how to use it) against artillery. What are you yourself doing, Kenny, that “takes courage?”
This situation is easily set to escalate. I’m not in the mood for another world war but these folks don’t know when to stop….
Unfortunately, Donna, I can see no other conclusion 😔
hilarious that the UK thinks that they need 227 tanks.
knock yourelfs out limeys
Never fear! I am certain an equivalent value of killing machine will be delivered as soon as supply chain issues allow. Any ‘shortage’ will be temporary. After all, there is no end to taxpayer money, right?