Having sent growing numbers of troops into eastern Syria explicitly to
control the oil, President Trump now says he is seeking a deal with Exxon Mobil or “one of our great companies” to go into occupied Syria and take the oil.
Trump has long suggested that in his view, the US should be able to just
take oil from countries it is involved in militarily, as a way to
recover some of the costs of his various wars. Trump said on Sunday that
the oil is valuable and “we should be able to take some also.”
That Trump is sold on this idea is one thing, but convincing a US Oil
and Gas Major to go along with the operation is another thing. The legal
basis, particularly internationally, of taking Syrian oil without
Syrian permission, and keeping US military forces there to keep Syria
from stopping them, is going to be complicated, to say the least.
Trump’s conviction that legally it’s probably fine, after all, doesn’t
mean the US company, whichever it turns out to be, wouldn’t get sued in
the US or internationally for looting Syria’s oil.
These huge multinational companies are notoriously risk-averse about
conflict, and would likely be so about joining the president in an
oil-taking scheme of this sort. That means while Trump continues to war
to keep the oil, he’s going to face a big job selling the idea to any
company.
Typically it does come down to the oil, Venezuela and Iraq can attest to the influence it has on Foreign Affairs.
It’s not so much about the oil, it’s about refusing the natural owners of their property. Don’t worry Americans, you’re next, once they are done with everyone else, they will come for you. Parasites can’t stop feeding.
Got that right.
But as Greg Palast proved, it’s also about the oil – or precisely who controls its price. The first order George Bush gave after the Iraq war was that Iraqi oil sold under the occupation would respect the OPEC oil price guidelines. That came directly from Jim Baker and George Bush Senior and the oil companies as an order to Bush Junior. The neocons wanted cheap Iraqi oil. They didn’t get it.
The only provider of electricity, much needed to extract oil there, is the Syrian state thanks to it’s control over the Tabka and fuar dams. All refineries are also under Syrian control and just a little sabre rattling from tens of thousands of Shia PMU militias in the area as well as the local Arab population under US occupation and it’ll be the most expensive oil on the planet and the most unnerving place to be, in the middle of the desert, for the occupation.
True. This is why the Afghan pipeline the US invaded Afghanistan for (along with the heroin) never happened.
If Russia, China, Iran and Syria don’t want the US to have the oil, the US ain’t having the oil. Period. End of story. Regardless of what Trump “wants”.
The real question all Proud Amurican war criminals should be asking is this:
How did American oil get under Iraqi… I mean… Syrian sand?!?!
Conoco discovered it, bought the concessions to it and then spent billions to develop the fields and build refineries. That’s the answer but for some reason nobody talks about it or the fact that Trump already killed 200 Russians protecting these fields or that Obama allowed ISIS to use the fields while Turkey helped smuggle the oil to Europe.
It’s funny how nobody on any side of this wants to go to the trouble to find these things out. Trump is happy to let his base think he’s just willing to loot and plunder and he will say as much over and over. The left is happy to let their base think Trump is just going to plunder too, when in reality, ownership of these fields is far more complex.
Assad can refuse to allow these companies access to these fields but will he? If he does the fields will be destroyed rather than turned over and he will not get funding from the West for any type of rebuilding. Billions of new dollars are needed to get these fields back up to full production. Assad doesn’t have it and neither does Russia. And Conoco is an “American” company but it’s owned by people all over the world. If they get screwed on this then Assad will find himself in the same position as Chavez was. He will have to rely on investments from China and Russia because nobody else in the world will deal with a country that goes back on it’s agreements.
The Trump plan seems to imply that Conoco or any other company produces oil and sells it to the federal government which sells it to reduce the ballooning deficit. A far more secure reduction of the deficit is to take our armed forces out of Syria and bring them home. Trump’s plan may actually increase the deficit.
You aren’t trying to imply that all this accomplishes is giving another large paycheck to the MIC… cause Trump is totally going 10 rounds with the MIC…
What I imply is that when you subtract the costs of this plan from its benefits for our nation the result will be negative.
More like…trump is buying rounds for the MIC….
Well yes, giving both the MIC and Conoco a check, that’s always part of the goal. It’s basic imperialism, Gunboat diplomacy at it’s worst and taken to an extreme based on events on the ground. By the way the US has gotten oil concessions in Iraq recently as well. Trump doesn’t hide the fact that he’s working for the oil companies, he hired Rex Tillerson to expand into Russia but that was a dead end because of “Russiagate”. Too bad it would have been good for our economy if the had gotten concession in Russia to do business.
Trump doesn’t pretend that the oil companies are separate from our government or our economy as a whole. He honestly sees the oil companies as “America”. When he says make America Great again he absolutely includes oil companies and the corporations who sell weapons. He’s all over it, when it comes to making sure they profit. He knows who butters the bread in Washington. But it IS a large part of the economy and he’s doing everything he can to boost the GDP. You and I find that distasteful or rather disgusting right? But who’s living in the real world? Me and you or Trump? F’ed up isn’t it?
Trump’s a straight up imperialist gunboat diplomacy kind of guy. They used to call that the “Realist” form of foreign policy. It’s not even close to being a non-interventionist but it’s still a step better than straight up neo-con’s who think they can re-invest the world if they blow up enough regimes.
Trump let’s people think what they want to think, especially when he’s talking to his base. I’m not sure he has a “plan” at all. He seems to be playing it by ear to me.
Ok, an american entering into an agreement with Syria, does not make those oilfields “american”. They are subject to the contracts that were signed. Those oilfields were developed with the agreement of the Syrian government installed by CIA coup in 1949.
pfft you and your details.
“Those oilfields were developed with the agreement of the Syrian government installed by CIA coup in 1949.”
There have been at least two coups since then. So why would the agreement be valid if one of the parties is no longer there to benefit from it or enforce it?
The last successful coup occurred in 1966. Eventually Assad came to power. The issue here is did the Assad government at any time have an agreement with Conoco or any other oil company to drill and produce oil in Syria and is such an agreement still in force?
Of course they had a deal, who would believe that they were over there pumping oil for forty some years without a deal in place? I’m sure they were paying something for the oil or taxes on it as it was sold, whatever. But they absolutely had a deal in place. For one they have to make re-investments all the time. Who would do that without an agreement? Nobody.
I know more about the deals in Libya under Ghadafi. Foreign companies had to form partnerships with the national Libyan oil company. Profits were shared. Occidental Oil was the first US oil company which made such a deal with Ghadafi. That deal rocked the oil business.
It’s “valid” because the other corporations and banks in the world have the ability to enforce it in a similar way as they have in Venezuela. If Assad takes the fields, he will be sued in court and if he doesn’t pay they will blackball him and that’s if they don’t simply destroy everything on their way out.
As for no agreement? You really think they didn’t make a new agreement with Assad or his government and that they were just there pumping oil with no agreement and no taxes or cuts for the Syrian government? That’s not how it works. I 100% guarantee that they did in fact have an agreement in place while Assad was in power. How else would it work? Like I said, they were not there pumping oil out and selling it without giving the Government their cut as part of whatever agreement they made.
None of it is morally “Valid” and we sure as hell shouldn’t have troops protecting Conoco profits.
Yes, the Conoco issue complicates an already dense situation. So why did President Trump mention Exxon Mobile and Chevron when Conoco has the original agreement? Most likely he had not asked for advice and did not know the real situation in Syria.
It seems that Conoco has two choices. Give up or return full bore to Syria. In the first case the civil war will continue unabated and Conoco may get nothing. In the second case it is in the interest of Conoco that the civil war of Syria ends and that the company can return to produce oil under a stable government which now means Assad+Putin. When viewed through that lens it is obvious that President Trump’s plan is not in the interest of an American company and its stock owners.
Who knows why Trump said Exxon or anything else for that matter, they might own some of the fields too, it also might be Trump’s just a big picture guy, that’s the CEO mindset in action. If you have ever met one of them they are all kind of like that, they pay no attention to details at all. They probably don’t have time for it. I agree with you on Conoco’s options. I think they will pump billions into it if Assad takes this area back over. That’s if Assad gives them the option. I think he will, he’s pragmatic and knows how things work. If Conoco gets the concession Trump will declare it a victory. (It’s still BS that we have troops protecting the profits of Conoco)
But even if he leaves this area he still has troops in Syria that he will probably use to bargain with Iran over. “Get out and we will get out”.
All the western (US puppets ) countries are sanctioning Syria, there are sanction on medicine, food, oil and rebuilding material.
No money is given for refugee/camps in Syria, return of refugee to Syria, no rebuilding.
only SDF held territory are given money from the west.
The west still works for regime change in Syria and will continue to fund their terror groups they call moderates, rebels and opposition.
The west are not even allowing western captured terrorists in Syria to come home to their countries and stand trial.
Give us just one piece of evidence other than US state chest thumping propaganda that “we killed 200 Russians”. You can’t because it’s debunked fake news. 200 were killed all right but only 20 if those where Russian wagner people, the rest were Syrian nationals.
OK, whatever you say. But it’s a distinction without a difference. Or as we used to say, “Same Difference”.
What a wonderful argument in defense of imperialism.
It is imperialism at it’s worst. I’m not defending it, I’m defining it. And I certainly don’t think we should have troops there defending oil companies.
Probably should’ve started with that.
Why? Is it a requirement that I virtue signal with every post? LOL Would that somehow change the information I provided and make it better or something? All I did was provide some context for you guys, I didn’t think I needed to prove my anti-war goods every single stinking time. Jeeshh lousise. (As if being anti-war or not would change the info either)
None of this really matters. We do not need Middle Eastern oil. We have plenty here, are a net exporter, and have stable petro trading with Canada and Mexico. Western military operations in the Middle East have always been morally repugnant. Our role in the Israel-Palestine Conflict is also outrageous. But now we have no strategic need to be there. Unless you support staying forever (and if you do, you can shove it real deep right on in there), there will be a power vacuum when we leave. Iran will fill this vacuum. There may be war between them and Saudi Arabia. And of course the nuclear rogue states of Israel, India, and Pakistan are disturbingly close to this area. The US will not tame the middle east. We will not tame Afghanistan. A brewing Shia-Sunni clash is not something we need to be in the middle of.
But we all know that non-interventionism is NOT isolationism. Let’s be a diplomatic power, inviting representations of warring factions to talk as the normal course of the outbreak and persistence of political violence. If they refuse, well, JQ Adams said what again?
“Wherever the standard of freedom and independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will recommend the general cause, by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.”
We have no reason whatsoever to be on the wrong side of the world.
The USA has been stealing Iraqi oil for years, but this is never reported. That was the main reason for the American invasion and endless occupation, and yes, Exxon-Mobile is a major exporter of oil from Iraq. Here is a short summary.
Kill, kill, rob & steal. US “values” on display.
Exxon Mobile? EM does not want Syria. It wants Siberia and the Arctic.
“The legal basis, particularly internationally, of taking Syrian oil without Syrian permission, and keeping US military forces there to keep Syria from stopping them, is going to be complicated”. Really? his is plain and simple illegal and possibly a war crime. But our “opposition” party, the Dims snd their supporters suffer from TDS and want to impeach him based on a conspiracy theory of Russian/Ukrainian collusion????
Oh, I get it. What is our oil doing under their sand? USA is a Rougue State.
As I understand the Geneva agreements on this issue an ‘occupying force’ of Syria can take the amount of crude oil and refined products which it needs for its own forces within Syria. Exporting it or giving it to other forces for pay or free is illegal. If exporting that Syrian oil and its products is done then President Trump would do almost the same that Saddam Hussein tried to do with Kuwait.
Saddam was a ruthless dictator, but the masses of Kuwaiti people cheered his troops as liberators. 70% of the people of Kuwait are non-citizen expatriates, mostly indentured foreign workers without rights. In 1991 they were mostly Palestinians. I don’t think anyone in Syria supports the American presence. Not even the Kurds anymore.
I am no expert in international law. But when we occupy another country that has not attacked us, then we commit war of aggression, which is a war crime.
BTW, I am so relieved that our president Trump is better than Saddam!!!
Even the analysis of cost vs. profit by a total non-expert like me suggests that this is a dollar-losing scheme which no responsible oil company will touch. President Trump will have to go with wild-catters. And even they cannot give one drop of Syrian crude to Trump for free because that may get them into jail.
we are officially https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6e4ceee80d35e403fe9a7d9297cc353be313c63c9645d0ba7acaaddfbb05447a.jpg back in the middle ages. steal what you want for god and country…My how times have not changed with ‘civilization’.
Times have changed… we pretend we aren’t plundering barbarians in order to allow our ‘educated’ population to pretend its better than all their filthy ancestors and backwards neighbors.
Its been that way everywhere when more than 5 people get together. God loves us best and everybody else is less than human…
I believe there was a quote in one of Eric Von Lustbader’s novels where a ninja said something to the effect that “civilization” was just a term invented by the Greeks (or maybe it was the Romans) and the Chinese in their respective hemispheres to justify their domination of everyone else. Sounds right.
Greeks called themselves ‘humans’ and everyone was a barbarian. Anywhere you go,no matter the time frame, you will see the same thing; Our team is blessed, and you are not. Once one decides that one team is worthy and others are not then its easy to claim the evil you do as good for a good cause while the other side is evil,have horns and tails…Demonize. Its an old trick, works very, well. anyway each of us thinks our ‘family’ is more important,worthy,has more value and that same concept is manipulated to use us for doing bad things,but for a good cause. Your hero is the other sides terrorist and visa versa. Its really friggin simple and basic…
We’re ending these endless wars and bringing our oil home. The troops are staying but we’re bringing home the more important commodity. The fact this guy has an approval rating on the north side of single digits is astounding. Our collective IQ must be that of room temperature.
Legal and energy experts have censured US plans to tap Syrian oil fields, with a senior fellow at Brookings Institution saying it shows the world that Washington wants to “steal the oil.”
https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/10/28/609758/America-steal-Syria-oil
Russia should attack immediately and destroy all American positions in Syria. Kill the oil thieves!
Yeah! Thermonuclear war is an obvious choice of deterrence against thievery….
Russia won’t do that – directly. What they and Iran and Syria can do is make sure those fields get regularly attacked and the pipelines blown up so no oil goes anywhere. No amount of US military there can prevent that.
I was assigned to a petroleum unit for three months in Vietnam. I ran a radio coordinating oil delivered from Shell Oil tankers in Vung Ro Bay to the pump station on shore which pumped the oil 16 miles over a pipeline to Tuy Hoa air base.
Every night the pump station closed down – because every night the Vietnamese guerrillas would blow up a section of the pipeline. And even if they didn’t, the local villagers would break the pipe just to get some oil for their cooking needs. LOL And we couldn’t go out and fix those breaks at night because we might get ambushed. So breaks were only fixed during the day.
Trump is just being his usual delusional self if he thinks there is any way the US is going to get any Syrian oil if Syria, Russia, China and Iran don’t want it to happen.
I know they won’t do that because Putin is too weak. But it would sure be nice to see America get a good beating
If American oil companies are nervous about just going out and stealing some other nation’s oil, then Trump is approaching the wrong oil companies – he should ask some Israeli firm – they would have no qualms at all.
Right. Which is another reason Israel wants the US to get rid of Hezbollah – so Israel can dominate Lebanon and get all that offshore gas they’re currently arguing with Lebanon about which is worth “billions and billions” (to quote Carl Sagan.)
Like Genie Oil and Gas who’s board is stacked with neocons like “Dick Cheney”?
For example? (Or is this just hatred of Israel talking…?)
The oil fields, where we have stationed the Special Forces, is already owned by an American Oil company. Conoco Phillips discovered this field decades ago and bought the rights to it, they then spent billions developing it and building refineries in the area. They are not the only US company to own fields in this area.
We already killed a couple hundred Russians mercs from the Wagner Group while protecting these fields. We also looked the other way as oil from these fields was trucked through Turkey while it was still controlled by ISIS. Russia bombed the Trucks and eventually Trump took the fields back from ISIS with the help of the Kurds. It was after this point in time that the Russian Mercs tried to take it from us and got wiped out while Russia looked on.
If you look at the series of events you can see that Trump wasn’t joking about taking the oil, nor was he talking about simple plunder. It’s a bit more complex than that. But no matter how you cut it, we are using special forces to protect the profits of Conoco Phillips and other oil companies. But again look at the time frame. Trump immediately on taking office stop arming the “moderate rebels” but he continued to flood the Kurds with Weapons so they could help him take these fields back. He then stationed troops to protect those fields from attack.
Eventually Assad will take over security of this area and most likely the Syrian Government will make a deal with at least some of the American Companies because they will need their investment money and because they can threaten to destroy their property on the way out if they don’t get the contracts renewed. Trump will brag about how he got Assad to hand over the oil, when in reality the US companies discovered the fields, paid concession for the fields and then developed these fields decades ago.
No we shouldn’t be using troops to protect oil fields, this is imperialism at it’s worse. First get the fields taken by ISIS and then they risk more lives protecting them from all comers? Utterly Ridiculous.
Not that simple…first, all fields belong to Syria, whether Kurds, ISIS, russian mercs , US, occupy them. With civil war, it was, as is usual, first with the most guns owns the field. Russian mercs, were paid for taking fields, same as US mercs. Fact is, US has no legal basis for being in Syria protecting anything. If conoco, or trump, want to hold the fields, they can hire their own mercenaries to grab them, then deal with the Syrians. This “americans developed them so they are ours” seems to only apply to “some” americans. Don’t suppose this reasoning would apply to say, the Black Hills, or slave reparations.
There is some analogy between the Syrian oil fields and the sugar plantations in Cuba which Castro nationalized. Every Syrian government can terminate claims by foreign companies on Syrian oil fields at any time and nationalize Syrian oil. That government can then compensate these companies with Syrian money.
“they will need their investment money and because they can threaten to
destroy their property on the way out if they don’t get the contracts
renewed”
Russia, China, and Iran will say, “Feel free. We will replace anything you destroy – and we have more than enough money to fund Syrian oil production. And we will back that up with our military.”
The risk is that Trump will try to militarily call that bluff.
I predict massive terror raids again US multinational oil companies in coming days.
If some want higher oil prices, they’ll get them soon.
I hold that remaining in Syria and occupying its oil fields with our military is a colossal blunder because you either have to stay there by hook or by crook or by both or eventually leave meekly.
What Trump is saying about Syrian crude, in addition to being illegal, is highly impractical. I wonder if he even looked at where the wells are and the difficulty of getting the oil to market. Just a way to please his xenophobic base and keep US forces in Syria for the benefit of Bibi and his American supporters.
This entirely depends on whose military controls the fields. If the US military is sitting on the fields, then obviously the question becomes what does Russia think about that? And China, too, since they have an interest in Syria. Assad, of course, will want those fields back under Syrian control.
If Russia decides to aid Assad in retaking those provinces with the oil fields, then it becomes a question of what Trump does then.
What some oil company wants is irrelevant. What Trump “wants” is irrelevant, too – except to the degree that he is willing to risk WWIII with Russia over the issue.
Given that Trump is a ranting, delusional narcissist, this should concern everyone.
I expect, however, that this will be decided via negotiation between the US, Russia and Syria, with possible recourse to the UNSC. In the end, Assad will get the oil fields back under his control and the US will be forced to leave those provinces. I don’t see Russia or Syria accepting anything less. It just might take a couple years to get it done without military action.
What a silly idea! All that is needed is to talk to Syrian government that would not mind letting a foreign company restore the fields to a working capacity, and share the profit. Then, no military would be necessary, so much cheaper — Trump should appreciate that!
Trump, the Thief-in-Chief….Bring the oil home and leave the soldiers abroad!
The lunatic has escaped the asylum.
We do not need Middle Eastern oil. We
have plenty here, are a net exporter, and have stable petro trading with
Canada and Mexico. Western military operations in the Middle East have
always been morally repugnant. Our role in the Israel-Palestine
Conflict is also outrageous. But now we have no strategic need to be
there. Unless you support staying forever (and if you do, you can shove
it real deep right on in there), there will be a power vacuum when we
leave. Iran will fill this vacuum. There may be war between them and
Saudi Arabia. And of course the nuclear rogue states of Israel, India,
and Pakistan are disturbingly close to this area. The US will not tame
the middle east. We will not tame Afghanistan. A brewing Shia-Sunni
clash is not something we need to be in the middle of.
But
we all know that non-interventionism is NOT isolationism. Let’s be a
diplomatic power, inviting representations of warring factions to talk
as the normal course of the outbreak and persistence of political
violence. If they refuse, well, JQ Adams said what again?
“Wherever
the standard of freedom and independence has been or shall be unfurled,
there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes
not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to
the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator
only of her own. She will recommend the general cause, by the
countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.”
We have no reason whatsoever to be on the wrong side of the world.
We did it to American Indians, why not the Syrians,,after all they did beg Johnny Boi, Obama, and hillary to invade,,right? Did we not also do the same type of thing to African Black slaves , use their labor to make cotton growers rich, as well as Southern farmers??? Why get upset over more of the same? Iraq, too,!,, did they not invite us to invade their nation over non-existent WMD and to rid them of the order Saddam kept in place,,take their oil too!!! Trump has his head far up his azz, and so do his advisors and chicken shi# Generals. 🙁
The US provided weapons to rebels for the purpose of overthrowing Syria’s leader. Some of those weapons fell into the hands of terrorists, including ISIS. ISIS threatened the region, but was defeated by Kurds and Shiite militias who received behind the front support from the US. This all happened despite the fact that Syria never authorized any of these forces to be in their territory.
Now, after the fact, Trump is justifying claims on Syrian oil by saying that the US should be able to recover some of the costs it incurred. Moreover, he proposes to do this by giving it to a private company that has no right to be there without receiving any guarantees that a single penny will ever find it’s way into the US Treasury.
Is that about right?
The Russians report that we are stealing it right now, but the $$ are going to private military contractors and special forces “patriots” So Trump just wants in on the action.