US war crimes in Iraq in general are a well-substantiated fact. Navy SEALs say they saw some “shocking” things, which other SEALs kill children with sniper rifles, spraying civilian neighborhoods with machine gun fire, etc.
Seeing such things was par for the course, in Iraq, but talking about it was another thing entirely. Several platoon members took the matter of war crimes by their platoon chief to troop commanders. They were immediately rebuked.
Not only did the commander tell them not to report the crimes to him, he warned them that talking about the war crimes at all would jeopardize their careers. War crimes are meant to be seen, but not heard about.
It was expected this would be the end of it, but the SEALs went around the commander, and to higher ups in the Navy that were not directly tied to the SEALs. This quickly led to a court-martial for the platoon chief.
It’s broader than just the one platoon chief. The court-martial is quickly delving deeply into the underlying culture of the SEALs. That culture encouraged both the war crimes and silence about them.
Power absolutely corrupts.
Worse than that–it becomes evil.
Corruption is kinetic “evil”.
Do we as a nation have any morality left…
Solly, of course not, this is what happens when you kill your own offspring and make it legal and admirable,,now the killers, Demoncrats, want to kill the baby after it is removed and alive,,as I have told ‘wars, this evil act is a cancer that will spread into all other areas, abortion and war will destroy all good and all morality. God is, imho, not about to bless the USA.
“now the killers, Demoncrats, want to kill the baby after it is removed and alive”
The shelf life on that particularly stupid lie was about 45 minutes. I’m beginning to wonder if you’re some kind of Planned Parenthood shill who gets paid by the post to make actual pro-lifers look like lying idiots.
No, he’s exactly like ALL the “pro lifers” I know. They define everyone based on their views on abortion.
Thomas, Really? Have you not heard and watched what the Gov. of Virginia said about what can happen if a baby survives an abortion??,,Is a baby not totally viable at 8 or 9 months when in places such as New York State it is legal to snuff out their life?? Why are you so upset with me when I speak out about the evil of abortion and the downward and steady slope of morality when it is allowed and looked on as a positive event? Why Thomas?…………………..Solly made a statement, a question, I answered it. 🙂
Yes, I heard and watched what the governor of Virginia said can happen if a baby who is GOING TO DIE in the next few hours is born: They will consult with the mother as to whether to take heroic measures or just deliver palliative/hospice care.
And yes, I heard and watched liars like you try to turn it into “killing a baby who survives an abortion.”
“Why are you so upset with me when I speak out about the evil of abortion and the downward and steady slope of morality when it is allowed and looked on as a positive event?”
I’ve never expressed any opinion, “upset” or otherwise, on your abortion views.
I just called you out when you decided to lie about the facts.
Don’t want me to notice you’re lying? That’s an easy fix: Don’t lie.
Thomas, you should never be calling me a liar, I take great caution not to mislead in any way. You owe me an apology! As to the Virginia Gov.,,from what I heard and saw the issue is what to do if the baby survives the abortion, he clearly stated, as I recall, that they would keep the baby comfortable but let it die if that is what the mother wished. Also, there was a bill in Congress to demand that doctors do all to save a baby’s life if it survives the abortion, the demoncrats would not act to pass the bill, so I believe I am right. Also in NY as well as some other states, you can have an abortion right up to the moment before delivery, and I believe in NY that state will even pay for it.
As to your calling me a liar, and insulting me, I now have to wonder, have I touched some nerve or guilt in you that you have a great fear in facing or dealing with? If you are anti-war, anti all wars, you cannot then be pro abortion, or add any “BUT’s”, to your claiming to be pro-life, to do so reeks of the worst kind of Hypocrisy. I will say I do forgive you for defaming me in the worst of ways, we all need to be forgiven for many things. 🙂
I’m not interested in arguing about abortion, even to the extent of stating a general opinion on the matter here. No, no “guilt” or “nerve” involved. It’s just not something I find relevant to this site’s content, even if you do.
You’re perfectly entitled to YOUR opinion on it, and to express that opinion. It’s not even a violation of Antiwar.com’s guidelines to lie about stuff like Virginia — but you can expect someone to notice and point it out when you do.
Thomas, I believe I am not the only one who thought that is what the Gov. meant and said, it was reported widely that that is exactly what he said and meant,,and you still call me a liar??,,,I am very dissapointed in you as I never thought you capable of such hostility. Hmm. Thomas,,there is something else going on with you, and I hope you solve it in a positive way. 🙂
Do yourself a favor and look up Scott Adams’s show on that whole controversy.
No, he didn’t advocate killing born babies. That’s just a fact.
Thomas, I know what I saw and heard him, the Gov., say. Scott Adam’s, who ever he is, is welcome to his own opinion. But thank you. 🙂
Thomas, Thank you, but I will just have to believe what my eyes saw and my ears heard. 🙂 Have a good day Thomas.
nah, that disappeared on the trail of tears and that was a bit ago
degan, Do you really think that was the defining moment?
Burning natives till their skin turned red and then calling them ‘redskins’ could be. That was done by those pious puritans. Or after the revolutionary war when washington created genocide on the 6 nations for their support of the british could be. Wounded Knee? Slavery? War of 1846? So many,too many to choose from. Do you know who deganawida was?
No. Only individuals may enjoy that luxury.
Here is another beauty that will not make headlines in the US media.
US, Afghan Forces Kill More Civilians Than Taliban – UN Report.
https://unama.unmissions.org/sites/default/files/unama_protection_of_civilians_in_armed_conflict_-_first_quarter_report_2019_english.pdf
This is the regrettable consequence of most wars. And, it’s indeed regrettable.
Think Stalingrad during WWII. Think of the six sacs of Rome (https://www.history.com/news/6-infamous-sacks-of-rome)
Civilians are all but defenseless. And, in American military doctrine and that of other countries there’s the edict that civilians are justifiable targets because they may support the combatants.
I don’t agree with that. But I believe that’s true that the military believes that.
Our wonderful senator from illinois volunteered to go to iraq and consequently stained herself in complicity,collusion as a terrorist in a war crime. Course she thinks shes an unquestionable war hero as all the boys and girls who joined and went there..She couldnt be more wrong…
While I believe that the majority of our service personnel conduct themselves with ‘decency’, the concept of decency is also highly contextual; i.e. ‘decency’ means you are permitted to kill & destroy, so long as you do so according to certain rules. Some killing is condoned, but some is not. These are, after all, ‘evil doers’ who ‘hate our freedom.’
So add up the several Iraq wars, decades of involvement more broadly in the Middle East, and the sum of the ‘decent’ killings should be shocking to us. Instead however, we take the state of being at war as a given in our nation, and instead of asking what we have to show for all of this, what the opportunity cost in terms of domestic progress has been, why it is considered ‘decent’ and worthwhile to kill all of these people for any reason, we allow it to just hum along in the background of our lives, and only briefly stop to think about it when there is killing that does not comport with certain arbitrary sensibilities. It is much more complex than that, of course, but at least consider that all the killing, decent or otherwise, is all being done in our name, with our tax dollars.
I read an article on Yahoo about the SEAL who is charged with pre-meditated murder for killing a wounded ISIS combatant. And then I read the comment section. They were 10 to 1 in favor of the SEAL and were the most disgusting comments one could possibly read. Talk about people hero worshipping out of control Rambo wannabes. It was sickening.
I’m unsure whether or not it’s hero worship. I believe that it’s more likely to be a result of very strong, perhaps industrial strength, hatred of those killed…mostly Muslims.
Of course, this is a result of the mass hysteria that followed the destruction of the twin towers on 9/11/2001. Some, less rational than me, cannot seem to let it go.
So true. The propaganda machine is so good that they have made sure that it never gets let go.
OK, let’s share some experiences, if that’s OK with you.
Without self-aggrandizement, I was a graduate student in a scientific department of a major Medical School where they sponsored several science curriculums of study. Mine happened to be biochemistry and I earned a Ph.D. in that department.
The Chairmand was an Iraqi immigrant and he had the most magnificently beautiful family any man could hope for. Because he was from the Middle East the department, naturally I think, drew in other Middle Eastern students as my fellow graduate students. And, they came from all over the Middle East, not just from Iraq.
They fit in seamlessly with the Anglo students like me and we all became fast friends (graduate school isn’t easy and it’s not intended to be. So, friends and colleagues of great intellect who are willing to listen, suggest and even work late in the night with you to ensure your experimental success are invaluable. I’m not sure I could have earned my degree without them and, perhaps, some of them mightn’t have earned their without me and the other Anglo students helping them.
They were unfailingly gentle, considerate, honorable, religious and helpful, every single one of them. And, their families were much, much more strongly bonded to one another than any Anglo family I’ve ever known including my own. It was an awakening for me.
In the process of my education, it was impossible not to come to understand the Muslim mind, their motivations, their sincerely great intelligence and that of late they’re having been run over by the Western world. It took me a bit of time to overcome all the anti-Muslim and pro-Jewish, pro-Israeli propaganda I’d long been taught. But in the end and at the termination of my graduate studies (Ph.D.) I realized I’d been misled about the nature of the Muslims by my country.
But there is one thing about them that is both a bit off-putting and admirable at the same time. Pushed, they can become ferocious.
That doesn’t concern me. I’m and ex-Marine infantry officer and a Texan, to boot. I’m exactly the same way. And, my peers and neighbors honor that errant strain in me as I’ve alone turned around several detrimental and dangerous, to the point of deadly serious, situations in both my personal life and my interactions with my neighbors…to the thanks of all involved.
No one gets a free swing at me. That’s the same way the Muslims I’ve known are. And, in that particular characteristic we are brothers.
So, then, why does my personal experience with Muslims seem so opposed to what I regrettably call the conventional wisdom here in the U.S. about Muslims? Why do so many Americans seem to believe that they are the demons incarnate and I believe they’re just normal, magnificent, beautiful, well-reasoned to the point of ingenious people who seem to honor a different religion and that there are essentially no differences between the average Muslim and the average American in practice?
I’ll use your word, if I may…propaganda. The question in my mind (and I think I know the answer, however unspeakable here in the U.S.) is that we are an occupied nation by a foreign power that benefits from that anti-Muslim propaganda.
COMPLETE FREAKING B.S.
Hatred of muslims goes back a lot further than 9/11
Walters, If you must let it go at least learn a lesson from it so it will not happen again, to you, or any others. Would you suggest also thinking badly of those who will not forget and will not let go of what the Nazis and the German people did to Jews and the rest of the world, in WW-1 and WW-2? Should we now flirt with the same thing again? But then again, few are as rational as you.
I think Shirt happens in life and that subsequent generations should realize that they can start afresh even after great tragedies may have befallen their predecessors.
I’m no Fauxopontas. But I do have Amero-Indian blood. My grandfather looked like the guy on the Buffalo nickle. The American Indians of virtually every tribe but perhaps the Cherokee (who were called the civilized Indians) were nearly wiped out through actions by the Army which could be only described in today’s terms as genocidal.
Do you think I hold that against today’s modern U.S. Army. Nope. Not a single person in today’s Army had anything to do with that.
Personally, I wish subsequent generations of, well, survivors across the world would give up the blood libel of their predecessors for wrongs done to them.
So, yes, I believe, and I’d be delighted, if those whose long dead previous generations killed in the Holocaust would FREAKING GET OVER IT.
Personally, I get tired of the belly-acking about it. Today’s Germans had absolutely nothing to do with what Hitler did. And, if you didn’t notice, the Germans at that time paid a terrible price for, not only their extermination camps, but also for their aggression.
Why in the Dickens would today’s Germans be required to carry that yoke of guilt for the actions of their predecessors when they had nothing at all to do with it?
My dear friend, if you thinking rationally you’ll agree with me.
What!! You mean they’re not all heroes?!! How can that … no, it just can’t be. We’re the good guys. Rah! Rah! America.
We live in a post-truth world. This will not end well.
The good news … when the dust settles their will be plenty of work rebuilding.
This is why American involvement in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria will come to rely less on regular military and more on CIA contractors who are not bound by those pesky rules of engagement or by international law. They can covertly terrorize civilians, torture detainees, assassinate leaders, run drugs, etc. and not be held accountable for their actions by Congress or the POTUS.
This is a real problem. A soldier is a weapon, the training is paid for by the US taxpayer. Does a SEAL own his US training ? Mercenaries should not be hired by the US to go anywhere.
Why are people so shocked? Anytime one country attacks and occupies another, there is always a “war crimes” as part of consolation prize to the loser.
Virtually everything the US military does outside of the borders of the US, is a war crime.