Saudi Foreign Minister Adel Jubeir lashed out at the international community in general, and the western media in particular, for its “hysterical” reaction to Saudi Arabia’s murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. The Saudis have already confirmed killing Khashoggi in a premeditated act.
Jubeir, however, says it is unfair for the world to assign blame to Saudi Arabia before the final Saudi investigation is complete. This is, again, in spite of Saudi Arabia having definitely been to blame for the murder.
The Saudi investigation appears to be open-ended at this point. Initially, they offered a preliminary report admitting that Khashoggi was killed in the consulate in Turkey, claiming Khashoggi had picked a fight with a Saudi kill-team.
When that report was mocked by many, mostly on the idea that Khashoggi had started a fight with 15 people at once, a secondary version was offered claiming they’d threatened to drug and kidnap him, then choked him to death.
Saudi officials are eager to keep trying to offer different versions of the murder until they find one that does the least damage to the kingdom’s international reputation, but having admitted in each version that they definitely killed Khashoggi, it’s hard to see how they’re going to escape blame outright.
I do not understand thus article at all. It is a mixture of blaming the entire country for the murder, to making fun out of initial reports. Initial reports were not unlike many other reports of an event that is partial iand it does not hold water.
If we make an assumption that THE ONLY WAY MURDER WAS COMMITED IS BY AN ORDER FROM CROWN PRINCE HIMSELF, then no other explanation is possibe other then “Saudis did it”.
This is silly. Somebody did commit murder. Some individuals were linked to the entry into consulate, and most likely suspects. Who gave order, remains to be seen. How was journalist murdered l, remains to be seen. What happened to the body, remains to be seen. Did “Saudis do it? “. Sure l, ONE OR MANY SAUDIS DID IT. But who?
So if we can dispense with “Saudis” did it, would be appreciated. If the question is — Did Saudi Arabia fund terrorist organizations? Then the answer is yes. It was the decision by the state and its ruler. Then, Saudis really did it! As for the case of a missing journalist, the incremental information released was not helpful, and they should from the beginning resisted to provide partial information before investigation.
More and more it looks like MbS enemies, as it would have made no sense to wreck the conference that MbS and Kingdom worked hard to pull off. Such theatrjcal murder would make sense if one tried to wreck the conference and the reputation of the Kingdom. That is akin to Putin ordering the murder of a former spy in England after eight years living openly in UK, and just before World Cup.
It may not be such a bad idea to wait for the investigation. Given that it occured on Turkish soil, the investigation requires coordination with Turkish authorities.
Errr, “the” Saudis did it is pretty much the same as “some” Saudis did it, esp when the hit team in question, whose names and identities we already have, appears to have several members of the crown prince’s retinue on it. The prince acts on behalf of the nation; that’s why it’s important to choose a sane and prudent prince. The cretinous foreign minister is simply trying to find a soft place to land this plane wreck. Lastly, the murderer is not normally allowed to investigate himself.
You confuse me even more. How come you are so sure that anybody acted in the behalf of the Prince? If course, we have zero evidence of that. And all other circumstances point away from the head of Saudi government (Crown Prince), as the myrder occured right before the critically impiortant investment conference. Now if I assume that Prince did it, then why? I can see inly one reason, and that would mean a deliberate, grotesque and impossible to ignore act of trying to degrade US-Saudi relationship. To cause a rift on purpose, and then in response to our just as predictable jumping the gun — pull back funding from myriad islamic cults, armed with udeoligy and weapons. Then pull from Yemen war, let US and UK find another dummy to fight for their control of Bab Al Mandeb. Find a deal with Iran. I can easily find arguments for “Prince did it”. But I do not think Crown Prince and Saudi royal mentality work this way. They prefer slow and conservative changes. Pushing US away in this manner majes zero sense. And even less sense makes the idea that just for personal whim, Crown Prince orders spectacular killing — knowing Turkish capabilities of detection.
It looks like the act is a oremeditated, and well timed, act of undermining and weakening Crown Prince. There is a reason Pakistan supplies soldiers for “security” purposes, as many Saudi National guard outfits are controlled by British military. It is not shocking that some high level advisors were dismissed. We know their titles, but seldom their functions. One of them wirked on Yemen issues, another — Qatar. Hardly portfolios that deal with security and special ops. Thus us just internal repositioning.
I am nit a cheerleader for any country other then our own. But I never allow myself to be hearded into a sheep pen, by loud and biased proponents if various agendas. In this case, Criwn Prince was declared bad and reckless from day one. And accused if all if hus predecessor’s decisions. He was in Nayaf’s administration on behalf of King. But Saudi system is clear. Nit even King can interfere in running the country, unless he gets backing from the Council, the top Saudi tribal body. And King got the approval — to oust Nayaf, US favorite, and install his son. Thus, take with a large grain of salt anything that comes from globalist megaphone. They have an agenda — Yemen, Iran, support of groups that undermine Iraq, Syria and Lebanon.
I blame Saudis for many historic sins, going back to massacre of Shia Hollybsites in Iraq back during Ottoman time. They acted on behalf of British Empire to reshape Muddle East, and continued to feed other empirial ambitions. Their product, Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden served US interests in Afghanustan, then served them again when Saudis opened hundreds of schools in Pakistan, raising army of tens if thousands students (Taliban), to move in and destroy what was left if secular governance in Kabul. Then, both were sacrifices, in irder for US to move in and take control directly. Saudis funded extreme ideology in Syria, Iraq, Egypt, and back in the day, Chechnya, Inguishetua and Dagestan. Not to mention opening schools and mosques in Europe and US. Many Islamusts in Africa, especially the “rebels” that we helped to oust Gadhafi. And on it goes. The latest surreal accussations of Iran as THE world’s buggest supporter of terrorism is an inverted reality nobody is buying — and Saudis found themselves isolated. With no friends but US and Israel. Change if Criwn Orince was to end that. Sausi sponsired terrorists in Syria and Iraq were crushed, first the variety of Salafi groups, and then Salafis under united ISIS flag. Iran helped Iraq and Syria to defeat them. And niw, many are crawling to Turkey for feeding and protection from Damascys. But their fate will be to defeat YPG and then incorporate back into the state. With the exception of Al-Qaeda funded by the West, and ISIS leftovers under US protection in Al -Tanf — Saudi sponsored groups are gone. Prince is no reformer, but a Machiavellian type. He used socially popular causes, such as women druving, attending sports events or going to movies — as a tool to beat back Wahhabi establishment, just as he took their money to support Salafi groups world wide.
We cannot be cheerleaders for anyone’s cause, but ours. And to do it, one must look at events without a oreexisting bias, to avoid falling into somebodybekse’s agenda.
Look only at the byline of Yemeni news wire, Saba.net, English version. The site belongs to real Yemen, the one with starving babies, not the one in exile. It says, America killing Yemeni people. Not Saudis killing Yemeni oeople. Because they, with starving population, know very well whise war it is. Snd are nit bothering to blame Saudis. I do not buy any crocodile tears in Congress or media. They can blame Saudis, but force them to continue war, snd alliw UAE to take iver South, knowing full well that south, like the city of Mukkala is where Saudis actually have support among Southern secessionists. Both North and South agree kn going separate ways, but US/UK will not have ut. This oartition wiuld leave port if Hodeidah in Northern hands, US/UK enemies, and Aden in hands of Saudi secesdionusts. Not a good scenario for control if Bab Al Mandeb. So, UAE with help if YS mercenaries eliminated politicians backing Saudis. Thus, forcing Saudis to take Hideidah from the North and make it landlocked. Whatever the price, including starvation. Saudis are faced with Hibson’s choice. Get control if Hodeidah, ir walk away with nothing — risking US wrath and blicking Saudi shipping to Asia, and Asia’s to Europe.
There is so much riding on this conflict. Kashoggi murder is just one more pressure point.
And this us why not jumping to conclusuons matters.
Imran Khan announced after coming back from Riyadh that ge wants to mediate between Iran and Saudis kn Yemen. Some financial assustance from US to Pakustan got cancelled — pronto. Somehow, Ivdo not think we win butting heads with Saudi Arabia. They close ranks, and we are left knly with further agressive actions. Trump method was better. Personal relationships to safeguard US interest. The problem arose when US interest gets blurred by Israeli regional policy.
This is to be continued.. At some point Saudis and Turkeybwill go for a reveal. It may be protracted, depending on many items sitting on the Middle East Chessboard.
One can never be sure of anything, obviously. However, in a tightly controlled dictatorship like SA, very very little happens w/o the knowledge of the top person. Very bad things happen to people who exceed their authority and embarrass the boss. That logic plus the fact that the 15-man hit team involved some of the prince’s top people leads reasonable minds to conclude it was per orders.
As for Saudis “prefer slow and conservative changes” nothing in the past couple of years indicates that this young prince is that kind of Saudi leader. The attack on Yemen, the kidnapping of Harriri, the slap down of Canada over innocuous tweets, etc. all point to an entitled spoiled prince with far too much power for his wisdom.
Lastly re making sense … does the attack on Yemen makes any sense? The kidnapping of Harriri? The embargo of Qatar? “Making sense” only makes sense when the other side thinks and calculates like you do. I think the prince was so blinded by his power and money that he genuinely thought this little murder (of which there must be hundreds ever year that go unremarked) was no big deal.
He did not attack Yemen. If you mean by it starting and conducting the war, from its beginning in 2011 to the day Muhammed bin Nayef was ousted as Crown Prince in June 2017. From that time, war us stalemate, with US enforcing bliocade of Hodedah and Saudis stuck with a worst of all positions. They can a/ try to occupy Hodeidah. The size of the city making it unrealistic unless a deal is struck eith defenders, b/ try to go behind Hidedah to cut it off from the highlands, causing another starvattion, or c/ try to storm Yemen highlands by ground forces —- guaranteed impissible unless all Yemenis are exterminated. In the meantime, YS gas stabbed Saudis in the back by ketting UAE take over South Yemen, with the help of US assasins targrting tribal leaders and parties loyal to Saudi sponsored Yemeni government that had its strongest support in the South! What do you do when your one and only ally stabbs you in the back? Find allies. Get out of unwinnable pisjtion — but what if you cannot afford to lise this much? Loss of both Aden and Mukkala on the South, and Hideidah in the norrh — soells geopolitical trouble for Saudis. But it is not quite a win for US yet, as for as long as Yemen North (Zaidi Temeni, not Houthis) controls part of straits by the virtue of territorial waters — nothing will be solved.
I am really surprised to hear that Imran Khan will be mediating between Iran and Saudi Arabia on Yemen! He said it, and cannot be unsaid. But given a non existent real influence of Iran on Yenen, and given a vast array of differences that divide Saudis from Iran — thus sjgnals that US will not be asked to solve Yemen crisis. And that Saudis are fishing elsewhere. If you take into consideration that Iran does not blame MbS for Kashoggi, and instead pins it to his enemies, some ground is being cleared. MbS indirect praise of Qatar, and joking with Harriri on his kidnapping — it does look like many are in the possession of a memo we did not get.
While I would love to play devil’s advocate with you about giving the benefit of the doubt about the kill order, I simply can’t accept that the head of a monarch, an inexperienced control freak and the one that extorted money from his uncles and cousins by imprisoning them a Ritz would have no knowledge about this hit.
I hate to be in a position to defend anyone, least of all Saudi Arabia. The amount of sheer evil spewed from that country in the last 30 or so years, cannot be overstated.
Because all of that was done with the cllise cooperation with US establishment both Demicrat and Republican, it makes me curious what on earh can one Crown Prince do after being appointed to that job June 21, 2017??? Thus, ruling a little over one year!
And finding the virtual ocean of duplicity and lies in our media, and even a clever description of his career in Wikipedia — a description that virtually skips over the two year rule of Crown Prince Muhammed bin Nayef!
Winders never cease. This “impetuous” prince has actually a mn interesting CV, provided one learns how to follow dates and who was in charge when. Somehow, blame this prince has become the leitmotif that defies the reality. And this is hiw we easily become useful idiots. And I understand why this happens. Who has time to research everything? But I do blame indeoendent researchers for lazy way out. Sure, Saudis have spread terrorism for decades, and feels good to finally let them taste some discomfirt! But what if the rouge prince is simply being disobedient and the kingdom needs to be brought back in line, serving as terrorist udeoligy factory and financier of “rebels”, from Syria to Libya, from Itaq to Pakistan. What if the ousting if our favorite Nayef is not firgiven nor firgotten, so it is time to cut this one to size before he gets any stronger? If only looking at the array of critics — I kniw I do not want to be in their company.
Fact. Yemen war was well under way BEFORE MbS father became a King in January 2015. Before King Salman was appointed, US and Saudi Arabia collaborated in a slew of global activism. Besides Yemen, let us remember Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria. King and Allegiance Council appointed Muqrin fir Crown Prince, MbS for Defence Minister.
But that met with fierce US lobying. That trio was dangerous to US “antiterrorism” agenda. And the Council and King relented, sacked helpless Muqrin, and appointed US antiterrorist partner, Muhammed bin Nayef in April 2015. This opened two years of our man Nayaf promiting Salafi movements in Syria and Iraq, culmunating in founding of ISIS. He ruled until June 21st 2017. Under his watch terror in the Middle East explided. Let us remember that Nayef and his father were dreaded heads of the Ministry of Interior — Saudi version of FBI and Homeland Security combined. These were the agencies involved in ligistics of international operations in the name of “counterterrorism”. Keep in mind that Defence Minister operates only within directives set by Crown Prince. Not even King could interfere, unless the Council backs him up. And following several Yemen missdventures, losses of Saudi Salafist groups in Syria and in Iraq, and a reckless ultimatum to Qatar — accusing them of terrorism — Council was slarmed and decided to sack Nayef. That was accomplished end of June, 2017. Immediatelly after sacking Nayef and appointing his son the Crown Prince, the King travelled to Moscow in first ever Saudi King visit. Deals were cut, oil, agriculture, defense. Joint research fund in energy set up.
Wikipedia claims that Saudi Srabia trued to undermine US shale by lowering prices. Not true. It was done in US request to bankrupt Russia, Iran and Venezuela. An aside, US shale production is still not profitable at any price. It is still based on financing new drilling to pay for previous loans. All is well fir as long as credit is rolled over. And Saudis did not admit “loss” when they enlisted Russia in cutting production. Serious problem started shen MbS cut powers if Religious Police and tackled the Saudi deal with Wahhabis of 1979. Bottom line, funding for various militants collapsed, and MbS turned to other Islamic countries, not just Gulf and created an Antiterrorist organization. This was to balance eorking inly with US antiterror institutions. But Saudi Arabia has been played off UAE. Nit fir the first time. Look carefully at Harriri kidnapping, and fingerprints of UAE ruler were there. What was the reason for his “visit” of UAE while istensibely kidnapped. Tiday, UAE gas been oractically given Yemeni South — with the help of US mercenaries.
MbS has fixed Qatar problem by eliminating conditions, snd the current enemy status is an agreed status quo. MbS even praised recently Qatar’s economy. Just before Kashoggi murder, MbS opened a fast rail line between Mecca and Medina. Unweiled details on economuc zine stretching from Saudi Arabia to Jirdan and Egypt. The tourist zone actiss archipellago of 50 islands under international standards for tourist industry is already planning to start issuing turist visas in 2019. When you add all the sicial changes, MbS is very popular. But he is bringing also a serious setback into expected Saudi role in policing Middle East and spearheading pressure on Iran.
One can look at details and ask a reasonable question — why is he so dangerous to certain agendas, that a way had to be found to expoise him to attack. Claiming that he was the architect if Temen war, he kidnapped Harriri, efc.
Look at Canada fiasco — what possesed Canada to interfere so crudely in the case of two individuals. It looks like Saudis took advantage of Canadian clumsiness to end wheat purchase. There are better deals to be had elsewhere.
Given the high energy in economic and sicial changes, and investment forum coming — I lean towards the idea that the crudely executed jn plain view crime with spectacularly lousy coverup was the work of internal conspirators auded no doubt by the same interests that are asking fir MbS head.
But a word of advice to thise asking for his ouster. King is not demented — as it was claimed during Natef’s rule. The wishful thinking is so transparent and over the top that will backfire. There us no shortage of potential conspirators. Nayef has nany in the Interior still loyal. It us now up to the Council to decide just how deep the rabbit hole is.
Maybe they’re saying you killed Khashoggi because you killed Khashoggi. That’s how it works, isn’t it?
You, who?
When in doubt, blame the media. Who does that sound like?
Perhaps the prince should have just mailed a bomb to the Washington Post, that way, it could be blamed on “just a mentally deranged individual”