From Turkey’s initial invasion of Syria at Jarabulus, officials couched it as not just an invasion against ISIS, but against the Kurdish YPG as well. This weekend, Turkish troops pushed into their first YPG district, Syria’s Afrin District.
Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan presented this offensive as starting in Afrin, then hitting Manbij, the other Kurdish territory west of the Euphrates. After that, the troops are expected to focus on the border territory, which is all east of the Euphrates.
Not that the Turks are likely to just roll over the Kurds without substantial resistance, after years of US arming of the YPG. Indeed, already the YPG retaliated for the invasion with a missile strike against the Turkish border town of Reyhanli, killing one, wounding 32.
This is a tough position for other participants in the Syrian War. The US, in particular, is an ally of Turkey, an ally of the YPG, and also an ally of the Free Syrian Army (FSA), a rebel group which has pledged Turkey 25,000 fighters to support the invasion. Both the YPG and FSA are awash in US-provided arms, with the Pentagon having armed YPG, and the CIA armed the FSA.
The US calls for “restraint” are likely not to please anyone, however, as each group is going to see the US is insufficiently supporting them. Turkey has already warned anyone who doesn’t totally endorse the invasion is “supporting terror.”
Syria is facing a similar problem. They don’t get along with the YPG, FSA, or Turkey, but feel obliged to oppose Turkish invasions of their territory. Since Turkey tends to give conquered Syrian territory to the FSA, Syria is liable to support the YPG, who aen’t outright rebels, but rather seek autonomy.
Where did all the comments go…???
To hell?
It is not correct that Turkey tends to give territory to FSA. The only incursion Turkey conducted in Syria was clearing ISIS from Jarabulus and border townships aling the border, as a start of the campaign on Al-Bab. After meeting up with Siryan Army at the other side of the town, the corridor that blocked Afrin Kurds from going East was maintained by FSA, Turkey, Syrian Army and at times Russia. Turkey never gave any territory to anyone. As of two days ago, the largest Arab contingent of SDF, defected to Turkish forces. There is no reason to believe that beneath the aura of calmnes — US does not want to see Turkey trounced by a Kurdish force. That would be a disaster — Turkish PKK was already favored, but in the case iof Turkish losses, much more can go wrong. ISIS in Al-Bab clearly had intelligence information that caused damage to Turkish forces. If US indeed encouraged YPG in Afrin not to accept the offer that Syria and Russia provided, then they must have given some guarantees. Turkey was a step-runt within NATO. And is behind in advanced weaponry as well as training.
The Turkish Army is needed to break the hardpoints of the SDF. Turkmen DAESH skirmish ahead, then let the professional army hammers, then the militiamen step in again to sweep and clear any surviving holdouts then occupy.
In that sense Turkey does hand territory to the FSA, except that the FSA is a misnomer. Turkey never bothered to abandon the obsolete holdover from earlier propaganda when Turkey and the U.S. were more on the same page as to Syria’s fate.
Folks, you gotta read @Partisangirl at Twitter about the Syrian war and the Kurdish land-grab. (And also Sarah at @sahouraxo.) Few in the West hear about all the crahp the Kurds are doing. They sided with ISIS in Aleppo for one thing, and only switched sides late when it was clear the Syrian military would win. They allowed ISIS forces in the east to march through their territory to attack the Syrian military. They bring in ISIS fighters to their ranks.
Kurds disarmed the Yasidis in Iraq – you never hear of this. They then made sure not to warn the Yasidis that ISIS was approaching. They wanted the Yasidis killed and driven off their land, their women raped. But whenever the media mention the Yasidis attacked by ISIS, they make sure to leave out this part. Kurds in Syria attack Christian towns and drive them off their land.
You could see during the war, pictures of Kurds and ISIS (where there are also many Kurds) sharing cigarettes and fraternizing at their shared borders. Just recently, they released hundreds of ISIS fighters and armed them as new soldiers in their ranks. Armed them with Washington-provided weapons.
The Kurds in Iraqi towns forced people to speak their Kurdish language in the schools, banning Arabic. Luckily they were driven out from the territory they invaded.
In Europe, Kurds act exactly the same as Arabs in the schools and in the streets. Don’t believe the neocon propaganda about them. Of course we’re shown some pictures of the very rare Kurd women with light hair color: “Look! Kurds are like us!” There are also equally rare Arabs with light hair, but we don’t get to see that. And we are shown Kurdish women fighting with guns in their hands – the guns they denied the Yasidis – but we never get to see that women fight in the Syrian defense forces too.
The Kurd parties are Marxists who smuggle drugs to Europe. They practice female genital mutilation – you never hear about that either (or ANY reference to Kurds as being Muslims – doesn’t fit the neocon narrative). They kidnap businessmen in Turkey and extort their families. They use car bombs against those who don’t pay. They decided to side completely with Israel, a fellow land-grabber, in order to get access to the American people’s tax money. The Lobby in Washington always gets what it wants, including when they want terrorists armed.
There are ~30 million Kurds in the world, split between multiple polities both in their home area and in a global diaspora.
To characterize “the Kurds” as monolithic in any behavioral respect — political, cultural, religious — is stupid.
Yet almost every discussion does exactly that. Your conclusion generalizes then to almost every discussion of this matter is just stupid. You’re right.
Do the policy makers playing with people’s lives do any better in their understanding of what they are doing? I’ve seen no evidence of it.
And to ignore their crimes because you have generalized them in a way that declares them all freedom fighters is better? (which you constantly do.) Is it also better to go along with the plan to Balkanize Syria because YOU have generalized them all as the good guys, who deserve to take over large swaths of Syria simply because they are victims in their own homelands (which is not Syria)? Are they allowed to victimize Syrians because they themselves were victims in another country entirely?
Honestly, what are you doing? You have a chance to be a professional and instead you waste your time acting like a second rate troll. If you don’t have the energy to write a column about this then at the very least go do some research into the PKK so you don’t continue to sound like a damn idiot every single time the subject comes up.
I haven’t referred to, let alone generalized their crimes, nor have I asserted that they are all freedom fighters, nor have I generalized them all as the good guys.
All I’ve done is point out the flaw in your claim that they are a “minority trying to impose their will on a majority.”
I’m surprised you haven’t learned by now that when you’re wrong you can’t bully me into pretending you’re not wrong.
You certainly asserted more than what you claim above. You have repeatedly stated that you believe they deserve to carve out a piece of Syria as their own. I think it’s safe to assume you believe this because they are good guys, not the bad guys right? I’ve tried to explain to you that they do not all support autonomy buy you continue to talk as if they do. That’s generalizing them in the same way the person above did. And it’s a FACT that they are a minority attempting to impose their will on the majority. So the “flaw in my logic” is that it’s factual?
I have shown how the PKK operates using various techniques including purging the opposition, shooting dissidents, shooting protesters, raising villages that belonged to Arabs, etc. etc. etc. And yet you continue to support the “Kurds” taking this land as if they are one with the PKK. You don’t seem to make one bit of distinction between the PKK and the average Kurd, who for the most part isn’t in fact represented by these authoritarian, cult of personality warriors. The fact that you support the “Kurds” getting their own land and make excuses for the PKK while completely ignoring their war crimes speaks volumes whether you know it or not. In supporting their autonomy while ignoring the actions of PKK you are generalizing them.
And please don’t play the victim with me, I’m not bullying you so stop crying about it. You don’t have to sit here and troll people all day long, you choose to do that and when you choose to insert yourself into other people’s conversations you don’t get to play the victim when someone gives it back to you. As for me being wrong, I am from time to time, although the best you have ever done against me is to find a couple weak gotcha moments, this seems to be your favorite game plan. First you troll someone and if they give it back to you, you find a semantic game to play looking for a gotcha moment.
“You have repeatedly stated that you believe they deserve to carve out a piece of Syria as their own.”
Yes, if by “repeatedly” you mean “not even once, ever.”
You seem to be having an argument with your fantasies concerning things I’ve said, not with things I’ve actually said.
Here’s what I’ve said, in shorter form:
No group fenced in by the Sykes-Picot borders owes those borders any respect, nor do they owe it to larger groups fenced in the same states with them by those borders to obey those larger groups instead of setting up their own gig.
“There are areas of land in Syria, Turkey, Iraq and Iran where the
majority is Kurdish. They’re not trying to rule the majorities in Syria,
Turkey, Iraq and Iran. They’re trying to set up their own thing in
areas where they ARE the majorities, instead of letting Winston
Churchill’s cocktail napkin drawing continue to force them to be
minorities in those four countries.”
This is a quote from you. You do not do anything but speak of them as if they are one large generality where they are all on board with the same platform. You clearly know nothing about them as a people and do in fact treat them as one large whole. You try and pretend that they are only trying to take over in areas where they are a majority and you put this in the middle of a conversation in which we were specifically talking about Syria, where they are not in the majority anywhere!
Just face it, you took this guy to task for speaking in the same exact way you had just gotten done doing yourself. The fact is that you don’t know anything about them and you did generalize them clearly.
Try and be a little bit honest.
Thanks for establishing that you can’t produce a quote from me saying what you pretended I said.
This, and then much, much more. It us hard to syick to any topic in the issue of Kurds, as the conflicts in Syria and Iraq are intertwined. Also, any more detailed review of Kurds in Turkey comes up with troubling questions about their conduct, both political, military as well as organized crime. The problem is, unless you do your own research, finding a credible source is hard. Thstbis, there is some accurate reporting — but it is unconnected.
I have spent a great desl of time over the years just trying to collect accurate information in actual prewar population counts. I have never seen so much fudging information, disappearing information, false information. Ine starts to appreciate books and hard records -/ as what id hoing on now is absurd.
It is the attempt to push PKK in Iraq, promoting PKK interests over Peshmerga that resulted in Peshmerga sitting back while Iraqi government pushed them out of Kirkuk and Sinjar. It was PKK that controlled Sinjar, on US request, and demand that Barzani backs off. Barzani’s gambit was Samson’s choice, allowing Iraq to reposses territories that PKK “liberated” from ISIS.
In Syria, combination of ISIS taking strategic points, relinquishing them to Kurds, and abundant ethnic cleansing -/ was to create not Rojava as Kurds hoped, but taking entire Euphrates region and declaring DEMOCRATIC FEDERATION OF NORTHERN SYRIA. No kidding, propaganda information kn Internet since the beginning of war.
It is a fact that Kurds had every intention to take Al-Bab from ISIS, even though they are less then 10% of population. In anticipation of Hillary win, an all female brigade was set up to “liberate out land”. But Turkey beat them, and just in time. Al-Bab is strategically located, snd it would have given US a commanding position in the region.
The entire trafficking in oil to “Turkey” during ISIS hay day before Russian intervention — was attributed to bad boy Erdogan, as West did everything to split the ruling party, by favoring Davutoglu. It was Kurds in Turkey that trafficked in oil, while Erdogan had his position in power diminished, first after inconclusive parliamentary election and then formation of Davutoglu givernment. Fhe day he was sworn in, Turkey shot down Russian plane. There was so much pressure in his ruling party to give in on US demands on Syria. Today, he is in strong shape politically, and he will get support home fir battling Kyrds. Also, he is no longer alone, as strategy is now hammered out within SCO.
I agree with you that Kurds are far from being victims here, snd the neocon tales of saintly Kurds and evil Assad is not working. Especially, as Assad is in a position of being a statesman, while US is to deal with its NATO ally.
This is far from over, as US military leadership seems to have some internal disagreements. So far, neicons always prevailed. Now, it is good old ISIS to the rescue!! Suddenly showing up right under US noses — to justify having something to do, until dust settles and back to nation building. But it will not settle I am afraid. And unless US plans to bring in reinforcements after declaring victory — it will be hard to match Turkish military numbers. It is a large, but poorly prepared army that kanguished under NATO benign neglect. Tyrkey was nit allowed to own or even operate Patriot anti-missile units — when brought in in Turkey’s request. So, if the battles do not go well, Turkey anticipates the need for modernizing and restructuring its Army and Airforce.
The bottom line is — US has no population to put under arms to defend “its” area. Kurds are stretched VERY thin, Arabs are not acceptjng Kurd games with education system. Raqqa was still smouldering, and not demined, when Kurds introduced their language jnto curriculum. YS oromise that Srabs should rule in majority Arab towns — another broken promise. Bi can see why they came with the crazy border guards — that way with a small force YS can say to others to stay out, and those in — not to contrmplate sudjng with the givernment. But Arab units are defecting in large numbers, some to Turkush militants, others to government held territory.
And in the meantime, Al-Qaeda is being pounded, as no deals can be given.
You forgot to mention the Russians pulled out of Afrin, as the Kurds claimed today the Russians “abandoned” them. Looks pretty coordinated by the resident powers. Kurds get the shaft again. US policy asleep at the wheel with the hammer down.
They were asking for it when they asked for the return of Syrian government services (so they could stick Syrian flags on their buildings) but refused the return of Syrian security forces (the only way to fully legitimize Syrian sovereignty in the area and deter Turkey).
That decision can only signal tacit allegiance with the U.S. and American Kurdistan.
The Kurds have to move east of the Euphrates – they do not belong in Northwest Syria. They cannot win this battle and should get out of Afrin and get out of Manbij rather than die senselessly – because their borderlands will never be permitted west of Euphrates.
Actually the Kurds do belong in NW Syria (and across into Turkey) and have for a thousand years. That’s the tragedy.
Afrin is mountainous terrain; Afrin natives can fight quite well from there for a while.
Its the Americans who have to go home.
The Free Syrian Army is code for ISIS Lite and Erdogan is a card carrying veteran of the Islamic State’s fan club. Remember the mile long convoy of pilfered oil tankers?
I hope this sh*t-show pushes the YPG back into an alliance with Russia and Assad. It’s the only possible silver lining to this mess.
The Afrin Kurds would more easily swing to the Americans, who are giving them via the SDF the weapons to fight back. Russia and Assad offer protection, but superficially aren’t the strongest players and aren’t offering ‘independence’.
Russia probably figured out enough Afrin Kurds were soft on the U.S. and so gave Erdogan the green light. Nothing to lose anymore. After years of relative safety and protection from Russia and Syria, it was time for them to choose; Syria or the U.S.. Neutrality no longer exists; independence carries a cost.
Turkmen DAESH are loyal to Turkey; Edogan’s alliance with IS DAESH was purely for mercenary gain and they would just as easily turn on him as he did on them.
I do think Damascus would be well advised to team with the Kurds and control NE Syria but evidently there is a lack of trust. Likely the Kurds propensity towards the Americans armaments. Perhaps Damascus sees eliminating any of the factions fighters as a good thing and will just observe the carnage? In any case you know Damascus is playing the long game.
Tried, failed.
“Breaking: Syrian government rejects Kurdish PYD’s proposal to restore state institutions in Afrin” – Leith Aboufadel, Jan. 19, 2018, Almasdarnews. com.
Quote:
“… According to the source, the PYD offered to raise the flag of the Syrian Arab Republic over their buildings and to restore state institutions in exchange for their continued support in the Afrin Canton.
However, the government rejected the proposal after the PYD refused to allow Syrian security forces inside the Afrin Canton.
The government fears that accepting this proposal will leave their institutions at the mercy of the Kurdish security forces [read: taken hostage and used as human shields], who have harassed their employees in other regions of the country, including in the northeastern cities of Hasakah and Qamishli.”
First of all that little map thingy needs Al-Bab between Afrin and Manbij. The Turkmen DAESH are operating out of Al-Bab and its a critical reference. The Free Syrian Army was always a joke but these are Erdogan’s Turkmen neo-Ottoman faction of that tattered umbrella, essentially a Turkish militia, militias being that region’s version of private military contractors.
Second, Rojava’s dream of autonomy is fast becoming history. There was no way it was going to survive American intervention; that’s not autonomy, that’s client statism. The Syrian Kurds are not all Rojavans; many are greater Kurdistan statists. Libertarian Rojava is become a nice cover for separatism and statism. Rojava could only survive when Kurdish statists had no sponsor.
“Rojava: A libertarian myth under scrutiny” – Andera Glioti, Aug 5, 2016, ALJezeera. com.
U.S. mixed messaging translated in terms of diplomatic doublespeak and reverse psychology is “Here, piggie, piggie, piggie, come to slaughter”. They know Erdogan can be provoked into a quagmire that could undermine his own regime.
Whether or not His Sultanship really does get quagmired is still not clear, but his air campaign lasted less than a day and its been reported (admittedly by the Kurds, but repeated in Sputniknews) that 5 tanks have already been lost. If they were merely disabled and/or not destroyed all is not clear in the video.
“Kurds Reportedly Destroy Five Turkish Tanks Amid Offensive in Syria (VIDEO)” – Jan 21, 2018, SPutniknews. com.
If the U.S. really didn’t want Turkey to attack, they could have applied more strident diplomatic opposition, economic soft power, leveraged Russian diplomacy to convince Erdogan otherwise. And certainly not make a big announcement about staying to build American Kurdistan; usually they are more ambiguous about their obvious intentions and play the other guy’s ‘hope for the best’.
Erdogan’s been pushing to enter Afrin for most of 2017 and gotten nowhere till now.