The deputy premier of East Ukraine’s breakaway region headed to Belarus today, and rebel officials say they’re eager to negotiate a settlement of the ongoing war, with a goal of comparative autonomy instead of their previous pushes for secession.
But it takes two sides to make peace, and as usual, Ukraine’s pro-West government is spurning the calls for talks, insisting the war over the nation’s impoverished east is actually the start of a “great war” for all of Europe that must be won militarily.
Ukraine had rejected peace talks in the past on the notion that they were about to win the war, but now seem to be in retreat from the east, withdrawing from the Luhansk airport and falling back from the border areas in the face of a counter-offensive.
Russia has been calling for Ukraine to adopt a federalist system as a way of resolving the war. The Ukrainian government insists the whole war is Russia’s fault, and that they want Western support for their massive war against Russia.
The US has been pushing Ukraine not to accept negotiated settlements, and the EU has piled on with threats of sanctions against Russia if they don’t forcibly disarm the rebels and end the rebellion.
After months of fighting and an estimated 2,600 dead, the rebel push seems like it can be solved the same way as ever, with an agreement for federalism. The Ukrainian government, however, seems less negotiation-minded than ever, and seems willing to keep pushing the narrative of a world-changing, albeit stalemated, conflict to avoid making moderate concessions.
qualifications for politics in Kiev, low IQ and inability to shut up
Kinda like neocons.
…and the willing servitude to the US leash.
pentulum
“qualifications for politics…low IQ…”
Quite the reverse, for the greater your knowledge, surely the greater your ability to be deceitful.
Greater knowledge of what? There's plenty of not-so-bright people who are very deceitful.
I disagree. The "knowledge" is not necessary. Low IQ, it is neither here nor there. The REAL requirement is to be sociopath that looks at his own interest first and foremost, and has ZERO conscience doing whatever dirt is required to achieve it.
You have it about right I would say. Even those with average IQ's would surely understand that this is all about Nato's ambitions to infringe more and more on Russia's borders. It's (nato's) ambitions on Ukriane was naturally responded to by Russia because of the absolute necessity of holding onto the Crimea. Only a sociopath would attempt to maintain that Russia wouldn't be provoked out of necessity. – luv from Canada
I don't know. There are an awful lot of very bright people who buy the Western propaganda. They were all very good A and B students K-12 and into college, all 17 years indoctrinated with the belief that the US always wears the white hat, American exceptionalism and all that. They learned those wrote lessons extremely well but were never taught to think critically.
It'll be up to Ukrainian families to put an end to this, to not send their kids to die for nothing, and of course for the young people to refuse to join or desert when possible. As the heads of the Donetsk National Republic say, there's lots of graves with Ukrainians that the Ukrainian government wants to sweep under the rug. Poroshenko's unwillingness to negotiate could be the beginning of his undoing, hopefully, as the DNR's army keeps succeeding.
And all this just so Poro and Arsenic can ingratiate themselves with the eurocrooks. Surely they'll have cushy jobs expecting them…on the other side of this after they caused unnecessary deaths of thousands they can waltz into the europarlament and be received with a standing ovation.
:…waltz into the europarlament and be received with a standing ovation…"
They usually don't honor those who fail to complete the mission and bring dishonor (and sunshine) to the elites and their political designs.
Everything that USG touches turns into either evil or Neo fascism, everything the USG/ English are touching turns into a catastrophe for the people, Iraq, Syria, Libya and now Ukraine is their latest.
The problem is, Kyev is listening to wrong advice — and they will lose a lot. Russia no longer cares for the retoric coming out of Western capitals — the rest of the world is on their side.
Kyev is today in grip of right-wingers. and no compromise is possible. The problem they face is the typical well organized guerrila. State sends tanks and heavy artillery to atack populated areas and civilians, while they are surrounded by flexible and mobile groups in the woods, country-side and the network of small country roads. This is how it came to be surrounded. This is precisely how the rebells managed to get to Novoazovsk, and how they have encircled Mariupol, without bothering to get in. The long term does not work for Kyev, and for their western sponsors. They need to take NOW what these regions are offering — the more they refuse to accept even the most modest demands — the harder will be positions not just inside the rebel-held areas, but among 10 million Russians living in Ukraine. They are now watching on the sidelines, but are seing writting on the wall — there will be no life for them if the nazi Svoboda, Fatherland and Right Sector win this one. The outcome of all of this may end up splitting Ukraine. If the war widens, and Kyev gets its wish — Russia will step in to protect the civilians, and they will have to take out Ukrainian armed forces, and establish dominance accross the swath of Ukraine — from Northeast to Southwest — all the way to Odessa. This will be the way to separate the warmongering Galicia from the rest of Ukraine, and then Kyev can so whatever it pleases. NATO will not intervene and enter war with Russia over Ukraine. NATO will huff and puff on how to punish Russia, but with the rest of the world pretty much fed up with the West destroying free trade, there will be no traction anywhere.
Autonomy OK, but what East Ukraine should really demand is the pus-filled head of Victoria Nuland.
I'd settle for a public apology by Nuland's State Department sponsor, Hillary.
Things are going quite well for the Ukrainians, so its not surprising that they are holding out. Putin is being forced more and more into the open, and thereby once again exposed as a liar. Indeed, one wonders if there really was a "rebellion" at all in Donetsk and Lugansk or whether Putin didn't simply send in merceneries to grab the territory, as he did in Crimea, but this time, have them pretend to be local Russians and recruit a few local screwballs and street thugs as window dressing. By calling a parliamentary election for 26 October, Proroshenko has beautifully wrongfooted Putin. If the people of Donetsk and Lugansk are not allowed to vote at all or if the election there isn't certified to be free and fair by international observers, then the "rebels" will have admitted that they don't beleive they have popular support. Since only Ukrainian citizens are eligible to be elected, the fake "rebels" will be sidetracked and unless supporters of the "rebellion" win substantially, they will demonstrate their lack of popular support. Obviously, the Ukrainians will concede nothing until after 26 October!
"Things are going quite well for the Ukrainians"
Only in your fantasy world.
They way things are going, they might well concede everything to the Don. You know it makes sense for Russia.
Which Ukrainians is it going well for? Definitely not the ethnic Russian Ukrainians for Poroshenko is slaughtering them as they sleep in their residences and trying to ethnically cleanse Eastern Ukraine of them. Poroshenko is a stooge of the West and the neo-nazi groups (Svobodoa and right sector) of Ukraine.
dude, what have you been smoking and may i have some?
You have the propaganda down almost perfectly. But relax, the propaganda war has already been won in the US and nearly won in Canada too. It's the rest of the world that hangs in the balance and will need to be won over before the US/Nato makes any serious pre-planned advances on Russia's borders now. That may not be so easy.
Canadians, asa whole, do not buy into the westrn propaganda. We see our government for what it is and will be changing it soon by voting. A pity we can't use Molotov cocktails on Parliament to expedite the dismissal of our nutjob Prime Miinister, Harper.
Have a look at the map of areas controlled by Eastern guerillas — and then talk. Also, things are going so well for them, that tens of thousands opt for "missing in action", or outright defection, to staying in a nazi-controlled army. Have a look at what is going on in Kyev — where American beloved Yatzenyuk attacked a deputy in Rada who dared to speak against random destruction of Eastern cities, townships and villages. Random destruction of apartment blocks, hospitals, administrative buildings, water facilities, electric power plants, factories, including diary plants, bread plants, chemical plants — anything that will make it imposible for people to live. She was attacked and asked to "KNEEL BEFORE THE UKRAINIAN ARMY". Oh, mighty creatures are these nazis empowered by NATO — they ask deputies to KNEEL before them! It seems to me the people all over the West are no different then people who lived in Soviet Union. Neither understood how the process of isolation works. While Soviet Union was deliberately put into economic blocade, partially it was their fault as well — not realizing that stoically bearing isolation was OK. But now, in an attempt to blockade Russia, West is blockading itself. As if nothing was learned from the unsucessful blockade of Iran. By spraying economic sanctions all over the world, West is depriving itself of trade and the contracts that are beneficial to long-term health of economy and political standing. This time, Russia can methodically "respond" to sanctions — but in fact, cutting off West from the Russian sectors of economy that Russia wants to reorient to different markets. They will now get the same products from China — identical in every way, except for the brand that Western countries afix to those products, and then sell at a huge profit to Russia and others. Ban on agricultural products is a very simple strategy — reorientation to Asian, African and Latin American markets, allowing those countries to sell more favorably, and not be dependent on Western markets and their control of prices. That will be the case with all subsequent "sanctions", where the West will increasingly cut itself of markets, as well as off the cultural influence.
West controlled part of the globe is in flames, and trade is destroyed. From South Africa to East and North Africa, throughout Middle East, accross Pakistan and Afganistan — all chaos, destruction, huge floods of refugees. I would not call this success — no matter how many more square miles Israel acquires for its settlements by grabing land from occupied people.
In the end, Russia may end up carving up Ukraine — which will be the best outcome. The chance that nazis in power in Kyev will EVER voluntarily step down in any elections — is fantasy. Europe is divided into US and German camps — and the new "rapid reaction" force is made up of countries that US controls. It is getting pretty much obvious. And when Russian counter-sanctions hit, they will hit those countries full force, but not others. And the Eurasian trade will continue benefiting countries that want cross-continent trade and integration, while those that want to be stuck in the past, and in self-isolation can go back to more simple times.
if you don't want to lose to kiev/EU/US, you got to believe in the goddevil and act as goddevil commands you to act.
even tho the organized religion [in nature totally political] and 'god' have been around for three to four millennia, it brought us nothing but anguish quarrels, anger, hatred, etc.
I would like to know only. Is Ukraine government run by intellectually handicapped clowns, or retarded monkeys??
Anyone know?