US officials continue to get more shrill in their accusations against Russia about the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17, and push for further hostile actions against Russia in retaliation for blame which is based primarily on secret evidence, and a handful of photos of extremely dubious origin.
Paradoxically, even as the US continues to assert its absolute certainty of Russian guilt, the narrative surrounding what exactly happened continues to morph wildly around, as they hope to settle on a story that people will buy.
We’re only a couple of days on from allegations that the rebels, who were previously not believed to have the 9k37 Buk vehicle allegedly used in the shoot-down, were suddenly claimed to have seized a Buk from the Ukrainian military.
Today, the State Department has revised the story wholesale, claiming a convoy of 150 Russian vehicles shipped to the rebels only last weekend, including the Buk and massive numbers of other advanced weapons.
Both stories are problematic. In either case, the fact that no public statement was made as to the rebels getting these new, dangerous weapons until long after the plane was already shot down, meaning the US and Ukraine kept the important information to itself. It also makes little sense that Ukraine’s military began making significant gains against the rebels immediately after the rebels got a huge influx of advanced weaponry.
That the rebels weren’t believed to have the technical expertise to use the Buk is also still a problem, for while Ukraine claims Russia secretly trained them in the use of the complex weapon, it’s hard to imagine that such training began long before an apparently extremely recent shipment.
Ultimately, the consistency of the story seems to matter less, particularly to US politicians, than the hope it will paint Russia in a negative light, as the war drums are now beating, and officials are determined to take advantage of that as the opportunity presents itself.
Obviously nothing Washington says is believable. Being more familiar now over the last decade with how the USG works, this whole incident smells like an Operation Northwoods.
Paul Craig Roberts has some interesting analysis of this on his website, PaulCraigRoberts.org
Why USA getting even?
You tube "Bush, Blair found guilty of 911 false flag war crimes in Malaysia tribunal PressTV 111122 "
Indeed. DC has completely blown its credibility, as far as I'm concerned. This was a perfect segue from one administration's bunch of lying bastards to the next. You can't lie over and over with impunity and expect to be believed IF ever you suddenly start telling the truth. And judging by the Russian's most prudent behavior in it's own backyard with regards to the lying and meddling Obama Admin., I'm more inclined to believe them, than the Obama fools.
Do a search for "USA: 5 Billion to Ukraine Recently". Note the Chevron symbol in the background of the video. The USA (Kerry) blathers on about the rebels in Ukraine being a pawn of Russia, but there is more to all this than that.
While your looking see what Job the US Vice Presidents son has in UKRAINE!
So we can as long as malaysian Airlines do not change MH for MA it will be chased by missiles.as MH stands for Missile Hit Airlines or MH17.strange huh….. Twice hit airline in one year…
think BRICS:
CNN Transcript: FAREED ZAKARIA GPS
BRZEZINSKI: My sense is that the European public opinion is aroused. This humanitarian issue is so tragic, so painful, so cruel and so unnecessary that the Europeans are beginning to be moved. But each of the major European leaders has a role to play. Chancellor Merkel has to face the fact that her predecessor, also a chancellor, was one of the creators of Europe’s dependence on Russian energy supplies.
Does Europe want to become a satellite? I think President Hollande has to face the fact that he cannot now, at this moment, be sending advanced arms to help Russia. Prime Minister Cameron should face the fact that the city of London has become a Las Vegas for Russian financial transactions that are self-serving.
***There are responsibilities these leaders have to face and they have public opinions which I think are becoming increasingly aware that this is truly a moment of decisive significance for the future of the system — of the world system…
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1407/20/fz…
"Does Europe want to become a satellite?"
Translation:
"They already are OUR satellite!"
"the city of London has become a Las Vegas for Russian financial transactions that are self-serving"
Translation:
"It is better they stay the Las Vegas for American financial transactions of the worst kind! Hey, you want a container of CDOs?"
sure they are satellites but of DC and DC's interests trump any local interests. Why DC never wins wars because it will not see local players as any thing but pawns.
The USG suffers from hubris. Since 1970 with Trident-1 and NAVSTAR (GPS) they have been working to replace MAD with Disarming First Strike Capability according to missile engineer Bob Aldridge -www.plrc.org and his great books. If we have got a chance, it's mostly because of the great missile engineer Bob Aldridge and his research. Bob Aldridge on the new US missiles in Romania, Poland and on 32 ships in the Mediterranean Sea: "Whether they are on ships or land, they are still a necessary component for an unanswerable first strike." The Russians may adopt Launch On Warning and we'll commit Suicide by mistake. Bloody crazy fools in the Pentagon !
I would challenge you, Jason, not to make the very mistake of which you accuse US politicians, where the consistency of the story matters less than the ongoing narrative. You too are committed to a narrative, and your eagerness to identify a way out, any way out, for the rebels who certainly could have done this, speaks to the trap any observer of war faces.
One always wants to sympathize with the victim, but the victim is sometimes very close to the perpetrator, if not at the start, then certainly by the time things get rolling.
And once you take up identifying with the cause of the victim, you're emotionally invested, and it becomes a wrench when facts arrive that might put that victim in a bad (in this case, very bad) light. It's human nature to then experience cognitive dissonance, and push back against the facts.
The trick is to always remember that nice people don't fight wars.
The fact that they took up arms against Kiev in response to a coup doesn't make these rebels good guys. As time goes by they begin to look more and more like a pack of opportunistic, homicidal maniacs who quite enjoy what they're getting to do these days.
You of all people, Antiwar of all sites, should have the perspective to be on nobody's side. Because there may be no good guys.
I always have a problem when using the word "they." The exact reference sometimes gets lost. When you say, "…fact that they took up arms against Kiev in response to a coup…" it's important to remember that until the neonazies in the US-approved new government in Kiev started using weapons and jackboot tactics to stop the move by the Russian-leaning residents of the eastern oblasts to separate from the EU-leaning part of Ukraine, there was little violence. Case in point, the peaceful (generally) repatriation of Crimea to Russia. If the coup-enabled government in Kiev had decided to talk to the separatists instead of beating and shooting them when trapped in a burning building they (the new government) set on fire, I'm sure there might have been an entirely different situation today. But the government in Kiev didn't pursue that option.
I posit that they (the separatists in the eastern part of Ukraine) have been forced into defending their homes and their lives against an oppressive and dangerous government who want things to go their way or else.
But I will admit that one of the major issues regarding this conflict is the sloppy attempt by the US government to manage the narrative that the American public hears and how that narrative can be used to then manipulate the population – which has been proven to be way to susceptible to manipulation.
Islamization of Middle East and militarization of Europe starting with Ukraine preparing for war with Russia is the idea. Barack Hussein Obama and his association, cooperation with Saudis, Qatari, and all other Islamic dictatorial states, particularly with Muslim brotherhood and their affiliated terrorist organization have become what is ISIS, ISIS and its creation was when Sunni Muslims terrorists groups were used by Bill Clinton and Madeline Albright in Yugoslavia, later Afghanistan was given to Osama Ben laden by George W.Bush to have his own Islamic sanctuary, later the branches of Al-Queada were used in Iraq and now they calling themselves caliphate regime in Syria, Iraq and having their eye on Spain and rest of Europe. Libya was the beginning, Syria and Iraq is not the end, all that talk with Iran is about Iran and for USG and EU how to get the Iranian regime to be changed, weak up America, weak up US Democratic Party members and those whom sympathize with US Democratic Party thinking is their best alternative, the far right politicians within your party selling the American values to Saudis and others doing them a favor while you left in the dark. Close the Democratic Party there is no democracy coming out of this deceptive and fraudulent political entity of vulture capitalism in cooperation with stone aged regimes and AIPAC and Neo fascism all over.
Interestingly just before the election members of the Ukraine coup leaders went and celebrated the Ukraine WWII SS Division as patriots, but what would one expect from neo Nationalist Socialist what we shouldn't ever have expected was that the United States is actually giving these people BILLIONS of dollars to overthrow a Government! We have seen America, Australia and a number of other countries make claim that the RUSSIANS gave the separatists the weapons but of course they were part of the usual complement of the Ukraine order of Battle and the Ukraine has another three or four Regiments, of these missiles! Not given by Russia at all, if America thinks that Russia should be punished for the Ukraine Government leaving them behind, then of course the US Government should be punished because Weapons they supplied to Iraq are now being used by Terrorists that even Al Qaeda say have gone to far!
On 16 July, elements of the Polish 1st Mazur Artillery brigade with 12 152 mm howitzers arrived in Odessa by ship. They are supposedly on their way back from Afghanistan. Now there's a mighty coincidence. I wonder if they will actually make it to Poland. If they don't it looks like NATO has just gone into the proxy war against Russia.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4c1_1405672523
This whole scenario is absolutely insane.
First " Bama accuses Putin of being responsible because he supposedly supplied the freedom fighters with the missles that supposedly downed the passenger plane. He says as much as that Putin is responsible for the end use of any weapons given to anyone.
Question: does this mean that "Bama is responsible for the actions of ISIS since they captured weapons that the USA/CIA gave to the rebels in Syria as well as the Irag military???
Question: wouldn't you think that someone on the ground would have seen a rocket launch either visually or on radar??
Why isn't anyone asking whether the USA/CIA had any drones within striking distance of the airliner?
The USA is without a doubt involved in this tragedy primarily to create more unrest in the Ukraine and the Middle East in general and secondly to blame Russia for everything so they can impose more sanctions to de-stabilize Russia.
I believe "Bama was pissed that Putin made him look like an idiot ( which isn't too hard) many time and this is his pay back.
It is another "false flag" which the USA is famous for.
Turn the page and don't be fooled by the USA.
Were the US Spy Satellites turned off at the time? Methinks not:
https://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/07/20-5#.U…
Is it really necessary to repost a comment one hour later? I assure you that most of the people who read and comment on this site have above average reading comprehension and retention skills.
You made your point – an interesting one, I agree.
But that's just this old Curmudgeon's opinion…
My mistake – not sure how it happened. Thanks for pointing it out. Am I able to delete the repetition my end?
no problem – you should be able to "edit" the comment – and then just delete the text.
Cheers
“The Ukrainian army was worse than the German Nazis, slaughtering our peaceful citizens in their sleep. It's all the fault of fascist America, which wants to spark a new global war so that they can explore for shale gas here, take over Russia and the rest of the world"
"…as they hope to settle on a story that people will buy."
Sounds like they've hired Wolfowitz and Feith from the Office of Special Plans to massage the facts, again. It's all about BSing the American people – who have proven over the years to be easily manipulated.
The problem with propagandizing the American public is that they're so pathetically stupid that the propagandists get really sloppy and lazy after learning that Americans, in the aggregate, are incapable of any skeptical and critical thinking. On the other hand, the kind of sloppy propaganda that DC churns out is always good for an eye roll and a laugh.
Sec. Kerry was on CNN yesterday and characterized the pro-Russian soldiers at the crash site as "drunken separatists." Yes, they are separatist, but evidence is needed to back up the claim that they were drunk. What evidence does he have that they were drunk? Was a sobriety test done on them to prove they were drunk? Kerry with his supposed "expertise in international diplomacy" should know better than to accuse anyone, especially someone from another country, of being drunk without any evidence to back it up. My guess is that he characterized them as "drunken separatists" because of the age-old stereotype that Russians are all a bunch of drunks. Injecting cartoonist stereotypes into a propaganda campaign to make it stick just goes to show how desperate the man is to, once again, sell a flat-out lie to the American people!
Butcher Benjamin Netanyahu was also on CNN yesterday and stated specifically that "6 million" Israelis are under attack from rockets being fired from Gaza. Yes, he's kinda right, there are about 6 million Israelis living in Israel, but that's only true if you don't include the million and half or so Arabs also living in Israel. So why did he selectively choose to mention "6 million" Israelis? He did this so that American viewers would conjure up ghastly images of the Jewish holocaust in Nazi Germany and then apply them to what's going on in Israel today. Only a butchering war criminal with a twistedly evil mind could cook up such vile and dishonest propaganda! The irony in all this is perfectly transparent: it is not the Jews but the Palestinians being gassed in the concentration camp, and it is the Jews that are gassing the Palestinians, just as the Nazis did it to the Jews over 70 years ago.
Everybody knows Russians are just drunken louts, raping and pillaging their way west. </sarcasm>
As reported by Robert Parry in Consortium News ( http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/what-did-us-… ) the the US CIA analysts believe that the sat picture is of Ukrainian troops – though they haven't ruled out Eastern Ukrainian troops in dark uniforms – with "… imagery showed what looked like beer bottles scattered around the site…"
What Kerry did was to impose HIS interpretation of the CIA sat images to fit a narrative, of course, since the CIA hasn't officially come to a definitive conclusion as to who the troops were.
I'm not basing this comment on fact, just the reporting of Robert Parry, who historically has been very good and decidedly impartial and inclined to speak truth to power.
Robert Parry:
What I’ve been told by one source, who has provided accurate information on similar matters in the past, is that U.S. intelligence agencies do have detailed satellite images of the likely missile battery that launched the fateful missile, but the battery appears to have been under the control of Ukrainian government troops dressed in what look like Ukrainian uniforms.
The source said CIA analysts were still not ruling out the possibility that the troops were actually eastern Ukrainian rebels in similar uniforms but the initial assessment was that the troops were Ukrainian soldiers. There also was the suggestion that the soldiers involved were undisciplined and possibly drunk, since the imagery showed what looked like beer bottles scattered around the site, the source said.
Not amazing if you look at photos of the Ukrainian "army". Undisiciplined irregulars galore.
What I'm trying to work out – through all this propaganda obfuscation & insanity – is why McCain visited the Ukraine less than 7 months ago. I can't quite see it as a holiday destination. So, who financed his trip? Did he negotiate any arms deals? On whose authority did he go there?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2524179/J…
"…whose authority did he go there…"
He's…Senator John McCain!!!
Congresscritters are spooling out contradictory allegations about Big Bad Bogey Putin as a distraction for their Zionist paymasters, while Israel continues to pound civilians in Gaza.
I'm going to try to dig out the links from a number of days ago.
I had read that the reason the plane was diverted from its customary flight path was because of a severe storm. Can anyone dig up the weather radar in central Europe for that date?
Also, buried in a news article berating the separatists and Russia was a one-sentence paragraph that said the plane disappeared from radar in the area of the town of Kremenchuk in central Ukraine rather than eastern Ukraine. Not being a weapons expert, I have assumed that that was where it was hit (or exploded from other causes, like TWA-800, ahem) and that perhaps the plane's forward momentum carried the debris further to the east.
Just some thoughts.
The weather at the time was fine. The explanation is bs. The data is (or was) archived at FlightRadar24.com. I don't have a full link to hand.
I'm not a flight analyst nor do I play one on TV, but, I would think that a plane flying at 33,000 feet, going at the speed they usually fly (250mph? 350mph? I don't know) that if the plane breaks up the trajectory is going to carry pieces for a rather long distance…miles, for sure. But, just a guess.
The Russian military have produced evidence that suggests two fighter planes were tailing MH 17 and a third unidentified aircraft climbed rapidly from low altitude to about the same level as MH 17 then turned and descended. Shortly after this MH17 disappeared from radar. The Russian has satellite photographs of Buk systems in suitable places. The Ukrainians claimed no other aircraft trailed MH 17. The Russians are aware the US satellite and AWACS data will exist and have challenged them to show their evidence.
A civilian aircraft was deliberately shot down in the knowledge that all would die, as a false flag against Russia. No either Ukraine did this alone, and the US will supply its data, or the US and Ukraine are complicit and the data will be kept secret. The Ukrainians have also confiscated the records of air traffic communications with MH 17.
There is a video showing what is supposed to be a Russian Buk system heading back to Russia, it was actually filmed at 95 Horkoho Street, Krasnoarmiis'k, Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine. It is actually traveling north west deeper into Ukraine. It is carrying 3 missiles instead of the full complement of 4.
“The Ukrainian army was worse than the German Nazis, slaughtering our peaceful citizens in their sleep. It's all the fault of fascist America, which wants to spark a new global war so that they can explore for shale gas here, take over Russia and the rest of the world"
~ Nicolai Kalegin of Slavyansk
(Source : Financial Times – "Bitter residents of Slavyansk pick up pieces of shattered city" – July 13 2014)