A Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 fell from the sky in the rebel-held Donetsk Oblast of Eastern Ukraine today, killing all 298 people on board, and sparking a flurry of competing theories over what exactly happened.
Unnamed “senior US officials” claimed to have seen radar evidence suggesting the plane was targeted by a surface-to-air missile, though Senate Intelligence Committee officials insisted they left a classified briefing on the matter with no evidence that a missile was fired at all, let alone that it caused the downing.
It had some hawks in Congress crossing their fingers though that there was some way to blame Russia for the incident, promising “hell to pay” if Russia is ever actually implicated.
Ukraine was quick to blame the rebels of Donetsk for the shoot-down, though this allegation does not appear to be based on anything either. They cited the rebels downing military aircraft in the area with shoulder-fired missiles.
But the plane was flying at 33,000 feet, according to multiple reports, and the missiles the rebels were using on Ukrainian military aircraft have a ceiling of only 5,000 to 10,000 feet. Only more advanced vehicle-based surface-to-air missiles, like the 9K33 OSA or the 9K37 Buk are capable of hitting a plane flying so high above the warzone.
The rebels aren’t believed to have any such capabilities. Indeed, such missiles would not be high priority for them, since they are much harder to use than the portable shoulder-fired variety, and their primary utility is in hitting low-flying Ukrainian warplanes and attack helicopters.
Both Ukraine and Russia’s militaries do have such capabilites. Still, there is no evidence which, if either, actually may have used such a missile, nor any conceivable reason for either to do so.
Ukraine had conspicuously deployed a 9k37 Buk to the warzone earlier, making much of such deployments as a deterrent to a potential Russian invasion of the east to defend the rebels, who are largely ethnic Russians. Russian officials blamed the Ukrainian military for the shoot-down, though as with everyone else offered no evidence for that claim.
A no-fly zone was imposed over the area by the Ukrainian military, but only up to a level of 32,000 feet, meaning the Boeing 777 was flying well above that limit when it was lost.
The actual truth behind what happened to Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 is likely not to be known for awhile, and the desperation among assorted factions to hastily blame a convenient foe is likely to hamper any reasonable investigation.
If it was shot down it is difficult to avoid seeing the government in Kiev as the top suspect. Given that this happened over Ukranian airspace and that only the Ukranian military has the capability to hit a plane that high up in the air. If it was not an accident, then why would they launch such a missile when the guerrilla army they are fighting in the East is ground based and has no air force? Then they must have thought the target was Russian….
Accident or not, these lost lives are directly attributable to the US-sponsored coup. Obama and his lackey Nuland should be hauled before international war crimes tribunals.
In my opinion, it is an Israeli false flag operation to divert attention from the war crimes being committed in Gaza. The Ukraine government it picked and run by the Neocons AKA as Victoria Nuland. Remember the USS Liberty and all the other Israeli false flag operations. Google them.
It's sickening to read comments everywhere that already blame Putin with the greatest confidence. As if Putin personally pulled the trigger. As if he had anything to gain from this. Astonishing how successful the demonization of Russia has been by the world-wide neocon media establishment.
It's puzzling why on the one hand it's claimed that flying above 30000ft is perfectly safe, which is why Ukrainian airspace has been filled with passenger aircraft all throughout the conflict, and now we're told that anyone can get his hands on missile launchers and successfully hit an aircraft flying at 33000ft. Military aircraft have already been hit recently, why weren't measures taken then?
I have my doubts that we'll ever find out the truth, again. This was became political the moment it happened. I for one am not expecting anything resembling objectivity from the Western establishment media.
> now we're told that anyone can get his hands on missile launchers and successfully hit an aircraft flying at 33000ft.
Sure not.
The US patriot system is of a similar complexity. You don't just find a "patriot truck" in the woods with the key in the ignition and put it into commission. You need a trained team to get this running.
The possibility exists that a less-than-well trained team, possibly recently recruited from a milita, but given authority to launch on need got a bit twitchy and decided to remove the dot on their air surveillance radar screen.
The Russians are likely to not be twitchy and be at least reasonably trained.
The Ukrainian army or their stand-in is likely to be very twitchy and quite possibly untrained.
Separatists are unlikely to commandeer the battery.
Guaranteed the Ukrainian government forces did this. There was a Nato exercise in the area! They'd be watching the war zone like hawks. They know who did it, and have the tracking info to prove it. So if there was any involvement from Russia, they'd have the evidence, and they'd be trumpeting it all over the place. So it's not the Russians. And the anti-Kiev forces lack the ability.
Unless the Nato forces themselves did it. They were right there, and officially "monitoring commercial aircraft":
http://www.voanews.com/content/reu-nato-black-sea…
The illegitimate Ukrainian government claims to have the "evidence" that the separatists did it- the intercepted recordings between troops and a leader where they talk about hitting a passenger plane, plus some twitter post where they boast about it. And since apparently Ukrainian citizens are somehow representative of Russia, Putin is responsible, or some such thing. I wish we could apply that "logic" in the US. It would make the Mexican president responsible for all sorts of things.
Even if the Russians shot down this plane – which I doubt – it would probably be as a result of a tragic mistake. I can't see anybody intentionally shooting down a civilian plane, not even the fascists in Kiev.
What then would be the difference between this plane being shot down, and the Iranian plane which was shot down by U.S. on 3rd of July 1988 with a loss of 290 civilians on board?
Let me explain to you what is the difference. The Iranian plane was shot down by the Americans, and since the Americans are the good guys – it's O.K.
You see, the good guys are allowed to make a mistake.
But if a plane has been shot down by the Russians (any kind of Russians: rebels, regular soldiers from Russia proper etc), that's because the Russians are evil.
Only the "good guys" are allowed to make a "mistake", otherwise the side that started all this mess is allowed to milk this tragic accident any which way they see fit.
" I can't see anybody intentionally shooting down a civilian plane"
I can. The conflict has already killed hundreds, if not thousands of civilians (much is outside of western media interest) in bombings and outright massacres. The conflict was started by the same "mindset" that set off Iraq and Afghanistan war.
You could be half asleep and still wonder if this means they found the missing MA plane from months ago.
Who stand to gain more military hardware and money from Washington as a result of this plane being shot down….? Just saying.
In an odd coincidence:
TWA 800 went down the same day 18 years ago (July 17 1996), and even then:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800#Live_…
Part of the Ukraine Airforce order of Battle!
156th Anti-Aircraft Artillery regiment (Donetsk and Luhansk oblast. Buk-M1)
there were Buk-M1 in the region all along if it was the rebels who had it that's where it came from!
Only way that it can be shown it wasn't the rebels is to ascertain if all missiles available are accounted for!
It had some hawks in Congress crossing their fingers though that there was some way to blame Russia for the incident, promising “hell to pay” if Russia is ever actually implicated.
Ah, the time when USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian Airbus and the only "Hell to Pay" was that the crew got a medal for bravery.
We are all Malayisan Airliners now!
New York Rep. Eliot Engel, the top Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said that if Russia is involved, NATO should reconsider the country’s status in the organization.
“It would be very, very serious,” Engel said. “I think that what [Russian President Vladimir] Putin has been trying to do is try to resurrect the old Soviet Union, and I think that NATO’s formula for the last several years has been that Russia’s a partner. I think the equation has totally changed.”
LOL
Mr Ditz's careful avoidance of a claim that Ukraine was responsible speaks volumes! Since only Ukraine has transport planes in the area, even if Ukrainian forces kisidentified the plane as a military transport, they would have assumed it was one of theirs, all the more so as it was flying towards, not from, Russia. The Russian military are incompetent enough to think it was part of a Ukrainian plot to conquer Vladivostok, but I doubt if even they would have fired on it. The rebels are the obvious culprits, but how they got such equipment is a good question. Being amateurs, they may not have realised what they had and simply fired off a rocket to see what happened. Russian military contractors would have such equipment, but they too have no reason to shoot down a civilian plane. Unless … Putin has made such a monumental fool of himself, and the rebels have made such a monumental nuisnace of themselves, that they are now a liability to the neocons that manipulated them. The whole thing might be designed to discredit both, bring an end to the fighting and maybe even destabilise Putin.
> Being amateurs, they may not have realised what they had and simply fired off a rocket to see what happened.
This is empatically NOT how these machines work.
> Putin has made such a monumental fool of himself,
Michael Kenny Talking Point #1. Repeat ad nauseam.
> and the rebels have made such a monumental nuisnace of themselves, that they are now a liability to the neocons that manipulated them
"Neocons manipulating rebels". That's a new one.
I think that people may be missing a vital clue.
Why did the Kiev junta deploy a high performance surface to air missile system in S.E. Ukraine in the first place? The separatists have no aircraft.
Good point.
Ukraine shot down a Russian passenger plane from 35000 feet, in October 2001, and attempted to cover it up for quite some time before admitting responsibility.
The Siberian jet was transporting Jewish Russians from Israel, and the Israeli government was hindered in their investigation.
In the 2001 case, the plane was accidentally shot down by an incompetent Ukrainian military. There is little evidence that the pro-Russia factions have anti-aircraft missile systems with this range capability, but the Kiev forces had recently displayed one in their arsenal against the rebels. Just as there would be zero advantage to Russia to down a plane full of Dutch passengers, Kiev stands much to gain if the western press does its usual Russophobia coverage. And of course Biden and Hillary and the Neocons are already blaming Russia…
Ukrainian authorities said to have arrested to rogue airforce members.