In the wake of French President Emmanuel Macron’s comments about Western countries not ruling out sending troops to Ukraine, a European official speaking to Financial Times pointed out that Western special operations forces are already in the country.
“Everyone knows there are Western special forces in Ukraine — they’ve just not acknowledged it officially,” a senior European defense official said.
The Discord leaks revealed last year that as of March 2023, there were 97 NATO special operations soldiers in Ukraine, including 14 Americans and 50 British troops. The leak confirmed earlier reporting from The Intercept that said US special operations forces were on the ground, along with CIA operatives.
It’s unclear if the number of NATO troops inside Ukraine has changed since the Discord leaks, but the comment from the European official confirms that they are still there in some capacity. Macron’s comments also drew attention to the tens of thousands of foreign fighters who joined Ukraine’s Foreign Legion. At least 50 American citizens have been killed fighting in Ukraine.
French officials have insisted Macron was not talking about sending a large number of troops to fight in Ukraine, suggesting he was talking about training missions. Many NATO members distanced themselves from the remarks and said they weren’t planning to send troops, but Macron received support from Lithuania, which said it was discussing sending troops for training.
“We are talking about sending training missions, instructors. The decision would be made on a multilateral basis,” said Lithuanian Defense Minister Arvydas Anusauskas.
In response to Macron’s comments, the Kremlin said that NATO troops inside Ukraine would make a direct Russia-NATO conflict “inevitable.”
Children, sing it:
Dancing on the brink of thermonuclear Armageddon!
Better yet, look up the music video by the Cranberries, sung by the late Dolores O’Riordan – ZOMBIE. One of the best, in my humble opinion, anti-war songs.
Recently I listen to Bob Dylan, Masters of war.
“Let’s dance in style, let’s dance for a while
Heaven can wait, we’re only watching the skies
Hoping for the best but expecting the worst
Are you gonna drop the bomb or not?”
– Alphaville
NATO has trained, supplied, and commanded Kiev’s military since 2014. That’s no secret. Of course there are tens of thousands of NATO military in-country.
Make no mistake – NATO is fighting the RF.
Great, glad they are helping, otherwise there would be no Ukraine by now.
Free and Indepedent Ukraine vanished in 2014.
… and losing.
Of course they are losing. Even if they employ all their nuclear arsenal, they can’t win this war. It was clear from the beginning. Only ignorant people could hope to defeat Russia.
Not so sure of that. NATO (pop. @700 M) with a $31 T GDP and 8 years to train, equip, prepare, provide IRS, and a ground force of 3/4M troops, vs. the RF (pop. @150M), a GDP of $1 and 1/2 T, and unprepared for war on this scale. ??
Only ignorant people hope to defeat Ukraine.
Correct: losing ground. Putin’s GOP lapdogs have made sure of it — so far. However — you ignorant toolbag — losing battles doesn’t mean losing the war. (See: WWII, Pacific Theater — early 1942.)
You keep fantasizing about US aid being the difference between Ukraine winning and losing this war. And your even bigger fantasy is that Russia will allow their ass to be pinned against the wall before an all-out major war breaks out.
No. All-out war means the end of Russia. (Putin knows this.) US aid turned the tide earlier and may do it again. Ukraine is currently in a “shell deficit” and requires more artillery ammo. Russians have the gear and momentum advantage right now but that could change. (New leadership on the Ukrainian side might change things on the battlefield.)
“All-out war means the end of Russia.”
It actually means the end of human civilization as we know it.
Perhaps; but Putin knows what happens if he decides to escalate. He would be better off pulling back but he’s not going to do that. So, what should we do next?
Mind our own business and give Americans the peace dividend that they never got after the end of the cold war. If there’s anything left to give in our hollowed out country.
There’s plenty to give if the GOP will slow us to tax the rich and corporations.
Ok:
https://www.newsweek.com/congratulations-democrats-you-just-passed-massive-tax-cut-rich-opinion-1651262
Also Bill Clinton oversaw the reforms in the late ’90s that, while slightly raising the corporate tax rate, loosened restrictions on capital flow which allowed corporations to offshore profits which they promptly began doing. Don’t take this as defense of Republicans as they are worse in this regard, but Clinton fundamentally changed the party from a liberal party that worked for the poor and middle class to a neoliberal party that worked for the professional class, the very wealthy, and corporations.
Agreed! (I’m not a Clinton fan at all.)
That’s exactly what I say about Russia.
Why can’t they mind their own business and give Ukraine peace.
You talk about peace but yet ignore other state actors (Russian comes to mind) of depriving other countries of that very peace.
That’s not peace.
@Rational Thinker The Russian armed forces have been prudently escalating since UK Bojo & the US regime torpedoed peace negotiations in march 2022. They’ll do well capturing Odessa.
“What we do next”? Who’s ‘we’? The US regime and it’s vassals should f*** off.
Oh, no! NOW Russia is REALLY gonna start fighting!
Lol
Odessa is a key city. Capture this and the peace talks will begin.
Russia won’t stand a chance trying to take Odessa. They need a functional Naval Fleet which they don’t anymore.
A real peace could also begin if Ukraine decides that Transnistria is full of Neo Nazis, then invade, annex the land, take all the ammo depots, and run a sham referendum. Repatriate all the separatists that want to live within Russian law.
That’s good Karma.
Yes, they probably would.
But the Russians are about as likely to capture Odessa as they are to capture Omaha.
@Rational Thinker All out war means the end of the world.
And opposition to the US regime war against Russia in Ukraine is growing in Europe among the people.
Sure it is.
Super Huge. I see it everywhere I go in Europe. Lol.
You are making sh!t up there.
US aid has never turned the tide. Russia’s initial incompetence turned the tide. The aid continued throughout, including the ill-advised counteroffensive. And there was never meant to be enough aid. The US has said that part out loud. An all-out war means the end of a lot more than just Russia and world leaders know this including those in Washington. So, the only way of finding out who is bluffing is to get Russia’s ass up against the wall. Reality says the US will back away before Russia does, and we won’t get to that point. Ukraine, after all, has never really mattered to the US. But I’m sure they’re willing to do add another $60 billion to their “investment” (weakening Russia) as long as Ukrainians are willing to keep dying.
So, US weapons did nothing for Ukraine? Got it.
We will find out about the rest of your theory soon because Ukraine and NATO aren’t going to walk away from Ukraine.
They didn’t do enough. They were never meant to do enough. And they will never do enough to provoke a major war.
Again. We’ll see.
Yes, we will. Either WW3 or the US backs off. At best for Ukraine is the continuance of the status quo. A stalemate.
Or Putin is deposed or something else…
That’s you thinking Putin is the most hardliner in Russia again.
I’m under no illusion that he is. I just say bring on the next one and figure out how to deal with him/her.
You certainly implied that you think he’s an out of control dictator. It’s always “Putin this, Putin that” and never about the Russian Federation.
Both can be true.
Which would probably mean they are on the same page regarding Ukraine. That’s been my point whenever people talk as though removing one man will immediately turn things around. Think Biden/US.
Well, it’s usually pure speculation but I’ve never believed in “the devil you know” philosophy. I’d rather keep changing them out until you find one that works.
Those weapons did a lot on the Russians. The Reason Ukraine is sill a country.
Indeed. A few of us have said from the beginning of this that:
– Giver than Russia has stated and acted in a way that indicates this is an existential war for them, and
– Given that Russia has far more soldiers, weapons, and infrastructure for war, and
– Given that in the last instance, Russia could fall back on the largest nuclear force in the world,
Then extending this war has NOT been a case of being Ukraine’s friend and helping Ukraine win but rather a VERY cynical exercise in MICIMATT aggrandizement at the EXPENSE of Slavic lives and facilities.
From one twitter user but also expressed in the New Yorker, wsws, and multiple other sites including antiwar:
Maria Mateiciuc
@MariaMateiciuc
I just got back from Ukraine, where I was visiting some friends.
Everything we have heard about what’s happening in Ukraine is a lie.
The reality is darker, bleaker, and unequivocally hopeless. There is no such thing as Ukraine “winning” this war.
– By their estimates, they have lost over one million of their sons, fathers and husbands; an entire generation is gone.
– Even in the Southwest, where the anti-Russian sentiment is long-standing, citizens are reluctant or straight-up scared to publicly criticize Zelensky; they will go to jail.
– In every village and town, the streets, shops, and restaurants are mostly absent of men.
– The few men who remain are terrified of leaving their homes for fear of being kidnapped into conscription. Some have resorted to begging friends to break their legs to avoid service.
– Army search parties take place early in the morning, when men leave their homes to go to work. They ambush and kidnap them off the streets and within 3-4 hours they get listed in the army and taken away straight to the front lines with minimal or no training at all; it is “a death sentence.”
– It’s getting worse every day. Where I was staying, a dentist had just been taken by security forces on his way to work, leaving behind two small children. Every day, 3-5 dead bodies keep arriving from the front lines.
– Mothers and wives fight tooth and nail with the armed forces, beg and plead not to have their men taken away. They try bribing, which sometimes works, but most of the time they are met with physical violence and death threats.
– The territory celebrated as having been “won back” from Russia has been reduced to rubble and is uninhabitable. Regardless, there is no one left to live there and displaced families will likely never return.
– They see the way the war has been reported, at home and abroad. It’s a “joke” and “propaganda.” They say: “Look around: is this winning?”.
– Worse, some have been hoaxed into believing that once Ukrainians forces are exhausted, American soldiers will come in to replace them and “win the war”.
There is no ambiguity in these people. The war was for nothing – a travesty. The outcome always was, and is, clear. The people are hopeless, utterly destroyed, and living in an unending nightmare.
They are pleading for an end, any end – most likely the same “peace” that could have been achieved two years ago. In their minds, they have already lost, for their sons, fathers and husbands are gone, and their country has been destroyed. There is no “victory” that can change that.
Make no mistake, they are angry with Putin. But they are also angry with Zelensky and the West. They have lost everything, worst of all, hope and faith, and cannot comprehend why Zelenky wishes to continue the current trajectory, the one of human devastation.
I didn’t witness the war; but what I saw was absolutely heart-breaking.
Shame on the people, regardless of their intentions, who have supported this war. And shame on the media for continuing to lie about it.
10:37 AM · Jan 6, 2024
·
6.6M
Views
https://twitter.com/MariaMateiciuc/status/1743658029893984735
@Caliman This comment of yours seems to me not being consistent (at least in spirit) with your comment above that I commented upon in a somewhat unfriendly way?
No worries … I thought I was being sarcastic enough before, but I guess not.
Why are you tankies clutching-your-pearls about this? Of course NATO troops have been in Ukraine since 2014. Media has been continuously talking about Ukraine using NATO tactics. There’s NATO equipment everywhere. Did you think there weren’t NATO advisors with every Patriot battery? (BTW, ANOTHER Su-34 was shot down! I think that’s 12 now — Su-35s included in that.)
Hasn`t done much good has it and most of the NATO equipment is now scrap along with dead Ukrainians and the weak kneed NATO cannon fodder will suffer the same fate , any one who thinks Russia can be defeated is quite frankly DELUSIONAL .
Don’t know about all that. I keep seeeing destroyed Russian armor and eliminated meatwave bodies all over the front. Add in the best Russian fighters/fighter-bombers dropping out of the sky and the Black Sea ships becoming Submarines. You mean THAT invincible Russia?
“I keep seeeing destroyed Russian armor and eliminated meatwave bodies all over the front.”
Got any links?
“Russian fighters/fighter-bombers dropping out of the sky and the Black Sea ships becoming Submarines.”
It’s amazing you have discovered that in war equipment is destroyed. Were under some illusion that in a shooting war there will be no losses? No one here has claimed that Russian assets are “invincible.” What people have claimed is that Ukraine will lose this war. Of course there is always the chance that some kind of internal crisis will force Russia to withdraw, but that seems to be a very flimsy hope upon which to hang predictions of a Ukrainian victory.
Plenty of YouTube and Telegram videos are available.
Here’s an easy one to find:
https://twitter.com/Getty776/status/1762453654416900153?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1762453654416900153%7Ctwgr%5Efc6fffd7f21b412268e8d61de8ccfa7b4ba2f466%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstories%2F2024%2F2%2F28%2F2226249%2F-Russian-stuff-blowing-up-Alleged-UFO-allegedly-spotted-over-Ukraine
Yes. Plenty of people say Russia can’t lose but they offer no evidence that it is inevitable. (Their “feelings” about it don’t count.) There’s plenty of evidence in history (which, you know, I’ve provided) that a larger foe can be defeated. So, if the US provides the weapons, the Ukrainians may be victorious. Arguing about it doesn’t make anyone correct — until it happens. I know you want peace but neither side is going to oblige you (or me).
“Got any links?”
Dude, are you serious?
Do you just watch RT news and TASS?
There are thousands videos showing Ukraine taking out Russians troops and equipment.
Ukrainians record most if not all of their attacks on Russians.
I think I need to start posting videos here. They are graphic but if you haven’t seen sh!t, nor the rest of the Russian team here.
From “Russian will take Ukraine in 3 days” as you guys were claiming here before 22 Feb 2022 to two years later “Ukraine will lose this war “while at the same time Ukraine is holding the line and fighting the Russians at a near peer level, that’s formidable.
You: Ukraine will lose this war
Also you: Of course there is always the chance….
Hmm, You may want to change that WILL to MIGHT.
@Rational Thinker You appear to think the US regime is doing something good with its war against Russia in Ukraine? As a European, let me tell you I want the US regime to do only one thing in Europe: f*** off. In the US, regime change is necessary. Go take care of that, people
So, as a European, you are unaware of the European countries that are also assisting Ukraine? (Seems like your out of the loop a bit.)
Of course I know. After the news of Macron’s remarks came through, I e-mailed 28 parliamentarians (I translate):
“Apart from Messrs B. and Van H., is there really no one among the 150 members of parliament who is not crazy about the West’s war against Russia in Ukraine? Nobody who speaks up? – Forgive my words, but this is serious!”
In fact many European politicians are more despicable than the US regime. They loudly make plans for NATO, while it is US soldiers that would do the bulk of the fighting.
All that and yet, Russia is struggling against a poorly trained and equipped midget army of 37 guys.
Your bragging of Russian destroying all of the NATO equipment delivered is actually a huge embarrassment.
The so called second strongest army in the world cannot even take small villages.
You Putin lovers are the delusional ones.
“Of course there are tens of thousands of NATO military in-country.”
That’s almost certainly not true.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Got any?
Dissident51, I love you but that sentence, “That’s almost certainly not true.” Do you have any evidence to support your claim? Or are you splitting hairs as to whether they are western mercenaries and not actual uniformed “NATO military?”
The NATO, being a fake defense organization, and seeing itself not directly involves in Ukraine, is aggressive & cruel enough to send some of its regular forces to Ukraine disguised as foreign mercenaries…!
Let’s review how meaningful discussion works. It is the person making the initial claim — about “tens of thousands of NATO military in-country” — who bears the burden of providing evidence. My expression of skepticism is not something that requires evidence, at least not unless the original claimant produces substantial and credible evidence for the original claim.
Common sense should tell everyone that the claim is probably untrue. Realistically, it would be impossible to keep the deployment of “tens of thousands” of troops secret.
“Or are you splitting hairs as to whether they are western mercenaries and not actual uniformed ‘NATO military?'”
That’s not splitting hairs. That’s a gigantic fundamental difference. If you don’t understand that, I don’t know what to tell you.
I never pretended to understand anything. In fact, countries pushing for nuclear war are hard for me to understand. But, it’s great that you feel the urge to point out such “gigantic fundamental difference” while neglecting “gigantic fundamental” nuclear threats to our entire existence. You just want to keep us honest, scientific, and accurate, while countries are actually pushing us into WWIII and nuclear war. You’re correct, I don’t understand.
“You’re correct, I don’t understand.”
Yes, I think I am.
From now on, your new label is Dissident Hair Splitter 51. Man, I thought Thomas was up there in terms of using technicalities to miss the entire point. Congratulations, you may have taken him over.
Well, NA, it’s up to you, but I think it would be a good idea to rethink your conclusion about hair-splitting. And as for believing that the difference between unknown numbers of mercenaries and tens of thousands of NATO troops is a mere technicality . . . you should definitely rethink that.
I would argue that it is splitting hairs given that any payments to mercenaries are ultimately coming from NATO countries. It’s a distinction without a difference. Just to point out again the relevant history: the U.S. in particular has pattern of behavior where they use mercenaries advised and trained (if they are not already ex SF) by American SF units. So if you want to be a pedantic simpleton then yes mercenaries are technically not NATO military, but they most certainly and undeniably are their proxies.
On the other side of the conflict supporters of Ukraine never failed to claim (probably correctly) that the Russian military was in Ukraine after 2014 waging war against the Ukrainian army while Russia claimed they were private military contractors. See how that works?
The only distinction that can really be made is “did these guys go on their own accord, being signed up by either the Ukrainian government or by a private corporation working under contract for the Ukrainian government”, or “did these guys go because they were sent there by a NATO government or government affiliated agency”?
Because the US military is quite simply a MERCENARY military. NOT a “national” military. We hire people who need money to go and fight. We hire foreign nationals to go and fight. Our government pays semi-“private” corporations to hire US military to go and fight as “private contractors” all the while paying the bills. It’s all a sham.
Like the “mercenary” Flying Tigers. Simply US military personnel “seconded” to a shadow organization for the purpose of fighting for a foreign government in a war we can pretend we’re not part of.
I think the correct description might be:
Sheep Dipped NATO military volunteers
😂
You love a complete stranger /blogger here??
Lol
The mercenaries are mostly from NATO countries too. Most of them are coming from Poland, next after Poland is US, third place in number of the mercenaries belongs to Georgia. Yes, it looks there were tens of thousands of them. Now, maybe, the number of NATO mercenaries in Ukraine is less than it was one year ago, but still a lot.
There’s a difference between mercenaries and “NATO military.” It’s an important difference.
NATO =North American Terrorist Organization who deal in DEATH DESTRUCTION &CHAOS .
And Russia is the Messiah.
Hypocrite!!
Tens of thousands? Come on, tell the truth.
There were millions and guess what, Russia eliminated every single one of them.
Fcking millions.
All Russia has to do now is just drive into the rest of Ukraine. Piece of cake.
Lol
In January 2022, there were over 10,000 English Army “Trainers” in country. Think that number has decreased ?
Bullshit. Show credible evidence of that claim.
Yeah and losing AGAIN lol. lost in Vietnam , lost in Afghanistan , Iraq a failed state , Libya a failed state , the most power full military alliance in the history of war fare gets it`s ass kicked by a bunch of ragged assed hill billies armed with AK47s and RPGs
The entire sh!t Russian Army is in Ukraine. Is that not news to you, Mr. Peace?
Are you too a self claimed Peace Activist?
The Ukrainian Civil War began in 2014. Roughly 40% of the population of Ukraine are fighting against the Kiev/NATO regime
The CIA has been there 12 years. U.S. Special Forces are there. Our bombs, etc, are there. And people to berserk about the “unprovoked” attack by Russia!? Before that, we turned down their asking to be a member of the Western Alliance, a co-member of even NATO! Encircling for 31 years (pedal to the metal by Clinton). Total FUBAR!
Bullsh!t.
Anywhere there is discord of a military or economic nature you can be sure the US is in the middle and fomenting death and violence for our advantage.
Not FUBAR … we needed a great enemy and Russia was the nostalgic and available choice, until China could be demonized enough to serve.
Since Ukraine is getting its ass handed to them, then it must be true that western forces are there as losers once again.
UA should have relied on the Taliban or Viet Cong instead…
What Ukraine?
There’s no Ukraine. The entire country was taken by Russia on 25 February 2022.
They took it on 3 days, remember?
Lol
And do you know who is also in Ukraine and not helping but destroying the country and stealing land?
You guessed it right.
The Peaceful Putin’s Army is.
Also very plausibly, according to Aaron Bushnell, actively engaged with the IDF in their genocide project in Gaza.
There’s no secret about that, either. It’s another “everyone knows” and the US and Israel don’t even pretend it isn’t happening.
OF COURSE Lithuania wants the commitment of NATO troops to be on a “multilateral basis”; a warmongering beggar nation, with ONE mechanized brigade and no tanks, and no intention of paying for any more than that, egging on other people to do the fighting and dying for them. Letting those belligerent miscreants into NATO in the first place was a huge mistake.
I don’t know about you Javy, but I’m ready to go to DEFCON 1 to defend Lithuanian independence, I can tell you …
As goes Vilnius, so goes Omaha …
@Caliman I’m ready to kick the US regime out of Europe, and preferably rip Washington off the face of the Earth and throw it in a black hole.
(Sorry for those of you who may happen to live in Washington, nothing personal).
You didn’t think he was serious, I hope.
@wars r u. s. Ow … he fooled me, I guess. Below I did notice inconsistency with Caliman’s other comments …
This place is like a chat room. You get to know where people are coming from after a while. Caliman’s a good one. Most are.
America and it`s NATO LACKEYS can send who they like Putin will still win , lets face when was the last time the NATO NUMPTIES faced a military of equal standing ? , WW2 was it ? .
The Russian military should seek them out and eliminate them all .
We must stop being frightened and start being fierce
Since Russia invaded Ukraine, politicians in the west have done a wonderful job of informing Putin of what they have, what are afraid of, and what they are not willing to do. They are not willing to spend too much on defence, not willing to put boots on the ground, and not willing to give enough power to Ukraine to win. Embedded journalists provide up to date information about Ukrainian ammunition stocks and troop movements, they report on how troops are short of artillery ammunition and casualty figures. Russia doesn’t need an intelligence network when our people do the job for them.
https://ukrainetoday.org/we-must-stop-being-frightened-and-start-being-fierce/
I don’t think anything the politicians and journalists in the west have told Russia anything that Russia didn’t already know. What amazes me is that the leaders of western countries habitually fail to act on such critical shortcomings.
On January 16th, shortly after France announced a security agreement with Ukraine and promised to send SCALP missiles and Caesar Self Propelled Howitzers, Russia launched a missile attack on Kharkiv which included a building used by 80 French mercenaries.
Russia knows that France is directly involved in the war. They will be treated as the enemy. Indeed, foreign mercenaries might be sought out to send a message to the countries that sent them.
What did Macron think would happen to those soldiers? Does he actually believe that Russia will ignore hostile actions taken against them because France, or any other country, pretends that it is not actively engaged in harming Russian soldiers and Russian civilians?
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s going to be called a duck. Macron isn’t kidding anybody.
A question: Every morning I check into this site and every morning there are posts 8-9 hours old, removing any impetus to comment on stale news. Where do these posts come from? Eastern Europe?
Most — not all, but most — material on Antiwar.com tends to be posted overnight. Why? I have no idea. Our HQ is in San Francisco, but we have people scattered all over the country and world. Dave’s daily video news roundup is usually posted at oh-dark-thirty and covers the previous 24 hours.
We’re not, for the most part, a “breaking news” site, and any given item is likely to be “fresh” — that is, in the news cycle — for a lot longer than 8-9 hours.
From a comment section standpoint, I kind of like it, because there are people in here all day long pointing subsequent developments in the posted stories, which can be more fun and enlightening than just picking apart what they’ve been fed.
Thanks Thomas. I’m not really complaining, just noting that responding to someone who made a comment 8 hours ago acquires a certain irrelevance if the comment is meant to be a retort or even a correction – or an update. I base it on the fact that very few people who posted something 8 hours previous actually respond. It’s just the nature of the beast.
Time zones are an inconvenient truth when it comes to having a conversation. My wife’s friends and relatives are almost exclusively in Europe (9 hours) 😉
British soldiers in Ukraine helping fire missiles, Olaf Scholz reveals: German chancellor criticised for ‘flagrant abuse of intelligence’ that could endanger UK personnel on the ground and help the Russians
“His assertion is a gift to Russian propagandists, already forming a key part of Russia’s effort to undermine Nato cohesion and support for Kyiv during this critical period ahead of US and UK elections.”
“Scholz is absolutely frightened that any of these Taurus missiles could be used in an attack against a politically sensitive target, either in Ukraine or Russia.”
“This is a flagrant abuse of intelligence deliberately designed to distract from Germany’s reluctance to arm Ukraine with its own long-range missile system. This will no doubt be used by Russia to ratchet up the escalator ladder.”
“Thanks a lot Scholz, you F wanker.”
https://ukrainetoday.org/british-soldiers-in-ukraine-helping-fire-missiles-olaf-scholz-reveals/
Of course there are NATO sf in Ukraine. Just like their were Russian sf in Ukraine assisting the Donbas rebels after 2014. It’s all part of the game. I remember reading several times (in non American press) that Russia has claimed to have killed NATO sf troops. Here is one recent example:
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/01/26/french-mercenaries-killed-in-ukraine-paris-calls-out-a-russian-disinformation-operation_6466963_4.html
That’s a propaganda story about an adversary’s propaganda. Nothing about it should be taken too seriously.
I’m sure there are French mercenaries in Ukraine. There are plenty of mercenaries in Ukraine. I would be amazed to learn that they are on the official French payroll, because even Macron isn’t quite that stupid.
And French mercenaries aren’t “NATO special forces.”
Accuracy counts. And these threads are drenched in fantasy and sloppy thinking.
That’s a good description of the news item. If you think assuming the USA and it’s allies don’t have any sf in Ukraine is fantasy you are not a student of history. It’s not confirmed, but of course these sorts of things are not officially confirmed until decades later. My point being that suspecting that there are NATO sf in Ukraine isn’t some wild conspiracy theory when seen in the broader context of American military practices over the last 50 years or so.
“If you think assuming the USA and it’s allies don’t have any sf in Ukraine . . .”
Did I say or imply that I think that? No, I did not and never have. You made it up.
I’m getting really bored with the poor reasoning and lame-ass, high-school-level argumentation around here. Actually, “reasoning” like yours in this post would get you tossed from any decent high-school debate team.
You did imply that when you said:
“I’m sure there are French mercenaries in Ukraine. There are plenty of mercenaries in Ukraine. I would be amazed to learn that they are on the official French payroll, because even Macron isn’t quite that stupid. […] Accuracy counts. And these threads are drenched in fantasy and sloppy thinking.”
If that is not what you meant when you wrote than I guess I was wrong and we can agree that NATO countries more likely than not (given historical patterns of behavior) have sf units operating in Ukraine. I think the problem with you is that you seem to like to play games instead of just coming out and saying what you actually think. That’s not debate, that’s called dissembling. Either way, I don’t think you have much of a leg to stand on here as you are devolving into ad hominem.
“You did imply that when you said:”
Learn the difference between implication and inference, Frank. You’re responsible for what you infer. You don’t get to decide what I have or haven’t implied.
I’m tired of this stupid exchange.
See you’re still playing games and won’t give a straight answer as to whether you think there are sf in Ukraine. I’m sorry that my objections to your inconsistent reasoning have exhausted your mental abilities.
I’m blocking you now, Frank. I’ve reached my limit of tolerance.
Can’t tell from that picture if Russia was giving the French the finger or if it were actually the finger of God?
I heard today that Russia had captured three villages, hopefully they can bring this war to an end soon, and stop the U.S. sanctioned killing. Also, with McConnell told it’s time to go, it seems that his push for more money for Ukraine has sealed his fate, and it will be harder, one would think, from here on out to push through the additional funding for the Ukraine war.
Three villages?? Yoohoo!!!. The war is almost over.
Great job by the used to be “second strongest army in the world”
You know what I heard today, that Russia has lost 10 planes / $750M in 10 days and 13 this year.
Now, that’s what you tankies call air superiority.
I know, I know, Russia has millions of aircrafts.
Lol
The Special Operations Command was established in the 1980s so the NSA/White House can deploy military forces without sending requests through the Pentagon where Generals and Admirals may object to illegal operations.
https://youtu.be/NXlkuDlw3pE?t=22
Where the hell did you get that statement from?
It cannot be more wrong.
“Macron received support from Lithuania, sending troops for training.”
New York City has a population of over 8.8 million people.
Lithuania has a population of 2.8 million people and they are pushing for NATO and American troops to be inserted into Ukraine. A Chihuahua dog trying to wag Americas tail.
Perhaps New York City should become a NATO member.
If Ukraine loses, NATO fights Russia – Pentagon chief
https://ukrainetoday.org/if-ukraine-loses-nato-will-fight-russia-pentagon-chief/
https://geoconfirmed.org/ukraine/dd9205e3-5f75-4145-272e-08dc330cac67
Russian Strikes On Ukrainian Targets Using Coordinates.
GeoConfirmed
@GeoConfirmed
2 Years.
2 years ago Russia conducted a full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
2 years ago the first map was published.
30000+ GeoLocations are conducted by 100+ volunteers, 27800+ are mapped.
And 20+ investigations are conducted.
This is the war in 4min20 sec.
https://geoconfirmed.org/ukraine
Looks like Dissident51 packed it up and went home. Deleting your account and all your comments is quite the scorched earth tactic.
His or her account and comments haven’t been deleted.
For some reason all their comments are gone. I can’t see them. I guess there is a function where you can stop individual commenters from seeing your comments?
Edit: I see when you block someone they can’t see your comments. What a coward. I guess they don’t like it when their BS and incoherence get pointed out.
In case you are keeping score we now have an admission that NATO sf are currently in Ukraine by the Germans. I wonder what the folks who were playing games by criticizing suggestions that we had sf in Ukraine while also refusing to say that we didn’t have sf in Ukraine. Neat game those hacks are playing.