Ukrainian Commander-in-Chief Gen. Valery Zaluzhny acknowledged in comments to The Economist that the war in Ukraine is a stalemate and that there will “most likely” be no Ukrainian breakthrough.
“Just like in the First World War, we have reached the level of technology that puts us into a stalemate,” the general said. “There will most likely be no deep and beautiful breakthrough.”
Ukraine gained no significant territory in its counteroffensive that was launched back in June. Media reports and the Discord leaks revealed that the US, Kyiv’s main backer, did not think Ukraine would have much success, but the Biden administration pushed for the counteroffensive anyway.
Zaluzhny discussed changes he tried to make during the counteroffensive. “First I thought there was something wrong with our commanders, so I changed some of them. Then I thought maybe our soldiers are not fit for purpose, so I moved soldiers in some brigades,” he said.
After the changes failed, Zaluzhny said he looked to a book published in 1941 by a Soviet major general that analyzed World War I. “And before I got even halfway through it, I realized that is exactly where we are because just like then, the level of our technological development today has put both us and our enemies in a stupor,” he said.
Zaluzhny said that both sides can always see the other coming, thanks to modern technology. “The simple fact is that we see everything the enemy is doing and they see everything we are doing. In order for us to break this deadlock, we need something new, like the gunpowder which the Chinese invented and which we are still using to kill each other,” he said.
Despite his assessment, The Economist report said Zaluzhny believes the fighting should continue. “Nevertheless, he insists that Ukraine has no choice but to keep the initiative by remaining on the offensive, even if it only moves by a few meters a day,” the report said.
The interview was published after a report from Time Magazine revealed that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s closest aides believe he is “deluding himself” into believing Ukraine can beat Russia. “We’re out of options. We’re not winning. But try telling him that,” one of Zelensky’s aides said.
“Ukrainian Commander-in-Chief Gen. Valery Zaluzhny acknowledged in comments to The Economist that the war in Ukraine is a stalemate and that there will “most likely” be no Ukrainian breakthrough.”
AAAAND he’s fired.
““Just like in the First World War, we have reached the level of technology that puts us into a stalemate,””
So NATO just gave them Bren guns and chlorine gas shells, plus trenching shovels ?
“i had no choice”. always wrong.
Getting the shitload of ammo and money sent to Ukraine only to be destroyed or stolen is a blessing for the arms industry.The more weapons are destroyed the more have to be made before the next conflict{sic} probaly against China,Iran or North Korea + some places in Africa and South America. The merryground of death and destruction must go on or the US economy collapses and the citizen at home take to the streets amid panic and poverty.
Destroyed and stolen? Ha, you meant used to destroy Russian troops and equipment?
in the famous words of Joe Biden”give me a break”
Well, keep on getting your news from the Kremlin. They are fighting the perfect war. Zero loses with Ukraine only fighting with 7 soldiers and no guns.
In 3 days Russia will take over the entire country. Lol.
Delusional .
Holy straw man Batman!
And paper straws, too, that turn to mush after a couple minutes.
I hope there’s a very special section of hell reserved for the various politicians who have attempted to mandate those damn things.
You are tedious. Come on, admit it. You’re in, what 10th grade? Ninth?
He graduated from the ‘Opportunity Class’.
There are already citizens on the streets in panic and poverty. I guess maintaining over 900 bases worldwide and always being at war will eventually eat at a country trying to be an empire.
“There are already citizens on the streets in panic and poverty.”
Ummm…Where exactly?
Have you been to NYC or Chicago recently? How about San Francisco or Seattle? Or any major metro in the USA? War pigs such as yourself are deaf to the carnage your neocon, supremacist policies inflict on the USA.
Here check this out:
OMG! HOMELESS PEOPLE! Posting a video of (most likely) racist cops does not reinforce your position. I’ve recently been to NYC, Chicago, and Philly and there’s homeless there. There’s crime as well. Just like there’s always been, you f**king idiots!
You’re the jackass that said “umm, where exactly”
You’re right! Some cities are full of carnage!
Lewiston, Maine, for instance!
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/28/1209247819/maine-mass-shooter-body-found-update
The whole country is full of carnage you ignorant fool. Nice try bringing divisive wedge issue bs into the conversation, though. See here:
https://muse.jhu.edu/article/847227/pdf
“Standardized mortality rates for the homeless population were found to be from 8.6 to 16.1 times greater than comparison groups.”
The difference is that those deaths are invisible because it’s inconvenient for the power structure for those types of deaths to be highlighted in the public consciousness. Imagine if we had more wisely spent a fraction of the money (7 trillion) that the neocons had us flush down the toilet into corrupt contractors, sweetheart deals for their buddies, ect. during the GWOT.
We could have eliminated homelessness and given every American high school graduate a college education several times over. But no, you and your depraved philosophy now argue that we should continue this theft (as President Eisenhower framed it) by continuing to fund wars all over the globe.
“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. […] This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.” -President Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1953
You scum have never seen a war you didn’t like or a covert military action you wouldn’t support. Shame on you.
First: Homelessness is not carnage. Homelessness is a serious issue but it only becomes a real issue for right-wingers when there’s a Dem in the WH.
Second: “Carnage” is mass shootings not car-jacking and shop lifting. I was clearly pointing that out but right-wingers want to ignore that.
Third: Now that you’ve found out homelessness exists, I’ll ask again: what have you asked your congressperson to do about it?
First, yes homelessness is carnage as evidenced by the review I posted illustrating that homelessness causes deaths.
Second, you selectively apply the word carnage so that it doesn’t implicate your preferred elites, why is that? I don’t ignore gun violence, but that’s not the topic of this conversation. Try to stay on topic.
Third, the same as I always have: to stop funding endless wars and to spend that money at home helping the less advantaged and educating our youth. How about you?
I’ve done the much of the same and feel the frustration but right-wingers aren’t letting anything change to help fix homelessness.
However:
1) Massive slaughter, as in war; a massacre.
2) Corpses, especially of those killed in battle.
3) The flesh of slain animals; heaps of flesh, as in shambles.
So, brush-up on your definitions.
You didn’t answer my questions, what are you asking your congresscritters to do about homelessness?
Try getting a quality dictionary instead of using the google. It’s a French loan word from the Latin carnaticum – tribute consisting of animals or meat
The first “modern” usage implied the flesh of slain animals or humans. The fact that they were slain by (or in tribute to) an indifferent fascist system or crazed madman with a gun matters not.
slain /slān/
noun
1) Past participle of slay.
2)Those who have been killed.
3) People who have been slain (as in battle).
Try again, chief.
You can’t even read your own definition, see 2) Those who have been killed.
In this case by a fascistic state hellbent on war and indifferent to the plight of the poor and least among us. You are twisting yourself into pretzels here and it’s pretty funny to watch. On one hand you are agonizing over homeless people, while arguing for more war, while trying to deny that homelessness is deadly to those who are in fact homeless, and all the while quibbling over semantics. You don’t know shit about fuck and it’s showing.
Am I?
Killed and died are two different things. I have to assume you lack the intellectual capability to differentiate the two. (Your lack of understanding what words actually mean has been exposed in this thread for sure!)
We are a VERY rich country. We can fund homelessness AND destroy an enemy. Stop acting like a child or the underdeveloped toolbag you are. You’re embarrassing yourself.
So if I work at a concentration camp and I don’t actually shoot you in the head or herd you into a gas chamber but you “die” from being in a camp I didn’t kill you? You just died? Ok, good to know what level of moral simpleton I am dealing with here. Not surprising, but thanks for spelling it out so starkly for everyone to see.
It should be clear to anyone who takes a few minutes to think in moral terms of how policies with known outcomes could be termed killing. Another example we could think of that is in our legal system is negligent homicide.
Once again you find yourself defending the establishment from accusations of killing poor people. Any normal, thinking person can look at the situation and understand the fact that when those in positions of power institute policies that end up in the death of human being and that these deaths are a reasonably knowable out come of said policies then those people can be said to have participated in a killing or negligent homicide (if that is what it will take to float your semantic boat). Now I could go on further, but it would be a waste of time with a neocon scumbag like yourself.
Here’s how incoherent you are:
You: “Ummm…Where exactly [are there citizens on the streets in panic and poverty]?”
Very next comment: “I’ve recently been to NYC, Chicago, and Philly and there’s homeless there.”
Your privilege is showing and it’s very ugly. Speaking of racism:
https://doi.org/10.1007/s40615-023-01521-9
From YOUR article:
“Between 2007 and 2017, across all types of sheltered homelessness, whether individual, family, or total, Black, American Indian or Alaska Native, and Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander individuals and families were far more likely to experience homelessness than non-Hispanic White individuals “
So, it’s a serious issue NOW? Seems like it was a big deal in 2007 as well. What were you trying to get your congressperson to do about it then?
Same as now, I was against spending our tax dollars on the GWOT, were you?
Go to YouTube, put in homeless camps, you do know how to work the T.V. right? If not, get in touch with your buddy Julio, he might be able to help you.
Homeless. Yes, Bill. Has homelessness become an issue MAGA-types like you are willing to tackle now?
What should congress do about it?
I’m not a MAGA type person as I don’t believe it matters who is president, NO ONE is going to make America ‘Great Again’. it’s well past that point. However, with people like the mummy in the White House the collapse and fall is escalating. Won’t be long before there is a global reset, and guess who is going to be calling a lot of the shots, it’s not the U.S.
OK, Putin puffer!
Frankly, I don’t care about Putin other than I believe that his replacement would probably be much more aggresive and dangerous that Putin. However, I will say that he makes much more sense than the so called leaders of the West, and unlike you, seems to be a ‘rational thinker’.
C’mon, Bill. You know you want him!
In just about every U.S. city.
HOW DARE YOU RUSSIANS DESTROY OUR CRUISE MISSLE WITH YOUR SHIP!
Hahaha.
https://www.newsweek.com/crimea-satellite-photos-minsk-black-sea-fleet-1840551
Oh well, the mighty Red denies this stalemate claim.
Because as usual, everything is going according to their plans and objectives that not even them know what those are.
“No, it has not reached a stalemate,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters. “Russia is steadily carrying out the special military operation. All the goals that were set should be fulfilled,” he added, using the Kremlin’s name for the full-scale military intervention
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/11/02/ukraine-says-russian-attacks-easing-around-embattled-town-a82974
Zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Finally you cite a source ! A source that tells us something everyone already knew and agreed with – that the Russians see the situation differently.
Speaking of denial, looks like things aren’t going well for Team America and their “counteroffensive”? Seems as though mighty Red is doing ok with attrition. Lots of great target practice and observing minefields do their job must be satisfying.
Please let us know how eastern Ukraine, Crimea, etc. will be reclaimed by actor Zelensky. Still waiting to hear back on that from previously made requests.
Another topic that’s being discussed widely is actor Zelensky’s eventual and predictable demise as supreme leader/military commander. Many believe this is his final act. Team America can only BS so much.
I’m thinking NATO neutrality and peace talks may have been a better option, but, hey, everyone makes mistakes don’t they?
Just wondering when the collective EU will send Biden a “f*ck Nuland” memo?
Nah. Just keep killing those invaders and smoking all their gear around Avdiivka.
Which will eventually fall like Bakhmut. Heavy, heavy Russian losses, but it will fall.
Remember, Putin doesn’t give a $hit and winter is coming. Come on now, you really think Zelensky is a match for Putin?
Growing dissent in the EU will slowly cutoff supplying Zelensky; it’s already happening.
Biden’s aid packages are getting smaller and smaller and will eventually be at the token level because we know you just can’t quit cold turkey. Of course, a diverting ‘David vs. Goliath’ narrative will expound the ‘successes’ and valiant efforts of Ukraine.
Reports of mass corruption, misdirected/pilfered funds, weapons being resold on the black market vs. getting to the front line, etc. will be stifled. Ukrainian top brass will be fired. The usual, but notice how much more is being reported by mainstream media.
With high certainty, the reality, along with Ukrainian battlefield casualties is staggering.
Ukraine will most likely exist, but it will be a smaller Ukraine. And, Zelensky will be no where in sight as he will either flee or be assassinated.
Biden/Blinken can also thank Mr. Netanyahu for his little “distraction” as well.
Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock…….boom!
“Zelensky will be no where in sight as he will either flee or be assassinated”
His fate is dicey. His fear of Azov is partly responsible for his “delusion” about a possible victory, but at some point the non fascist elements will reassert themselves. Then Zelensky will also have to be worried about getting assassinated from that direction as well. His best bet is to go on another fund raising tour right around the time there is a coup in Kiev. That way he can slink away to Italy or North America to spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder.
And yet, those pesky Ukes keep beating the s**t out of the Russians.
We’ll see how it goes…
Sure, but there are a lot of casualties on the Ukrainian side as well.
Do you really think actual Ukrainian casualties, equipment losses, etc. are being factually reported? Top dollar they are staggering and the facts can’t be reported. Yet. I get it.
Just as with the reporting of this summer’s “counteroffensive”. After the initial bravado, the reports started trickle that maybe things will take a little longer. 4 months later, we all know it was a (very predictable) failure.
Same with the initial BS that this wasn’t an American proxy war or the Nordstream pipeline (remember Russia blew it up first, then is was the Skipper and Gilligan on a 3 hour tour in a Polish sailboat…..come on now), and, so on.
At least with Russia, we all knew Prigozhin was done after his final tirade. And there was no hiding that. It was just a matter of time.
Ukraine, unfortunately, is f*cked and it didn’t need to be this way. Supplies will dwindle and that will be it. A supporting narrative will accompany this to make everyone feel better and justified, but the fact remains that Ukraine will be a much smaller version than it currently is.
Sure, son.
Easy there tiger, easy……
Yep, it’s a war. The fact that you aren’t up to speed on the pace of this war says a lot about your mental acuity. Russia is now on a probing offensive all along the front with a more concentrated offensive effort in Avdiivka. You understand that when one goes on the offense, especially against a well entrenched enemy one will most assuredly take heavy losses, correct? So it’s not some big gotcha that Russia is losing men and equipment. I mean have you seen the amount of men and equipment that Ukraine has lost over the last 4 months?
Yes. I know. It’s war. At least you’ve admitted Russia is taking heavy losses. They ARE on the offensive with asinine tactics (which is what’s causing those losses.) Your boy has little respect for his troops but they’ll keep dying for him.
The stalemate on the Western front of WW1 eventually resulted in a cease-fire. To which country will Putin flee?
There is no stalemate, only the weasel word to cover defeat, while there’s a prospect of stealing $60B more.
Lukashenko, who wouldn’t dare break wind without his imperial master Putin’s permission, says there’s a stalemate too.
After the classic USM fashion Ukraine is FUBAR. The US has assumed all the burden of the war, except the suffering, all the burden of the Gov’t probably even including the thievey, and even the private economy (buying seed for the farmers). Russia is unwilling to sacrifice men and wealth on a poverty of Ukrainian targets preferring to default temporarily to the greater pursuit of bleeding NATO white in the certain knowledge that, like Afghanistan, the Ukra-Nazis will in the not too distand future be kissed-off by their great Friend and Russia can mop up the remnant unable to flee.
Meanwhile Putin and his brain trust are happy to encourage the West’s illusion of stalemate.
There’s a stalemate for now, but the longer the war drags on the chances increase for the war to become un-stalemated. This is assuming of course that the US and Europe can’t resupply Ukraine to the extent needed to hold off the Russians and also assuming that the Ukrainian potential for further mobilization is indeed as moribund as some commentators and analysts claim.
Keep flogging that. It gets more persuasive every time you repeat it!
That’s a pretty twisted variation on the famous informal logical fallacy, appeal to authority. 🙄
Ignoring for the moment your imagined version of the Putin—Lukashenko relationship, neither Lukashenko’s claim nor Zaluzhny’s credibly describes the situation for most of us here who have been paying attention to a wide range of sources over the course of this conflict.
It doesn’t look like a stalemate at all. It seems, rather, that Russia has taken and is holding much of what it said were its territorial goals, Ukraine has been able to do virtually nothing to change that reality and appears increasingly less able even to make credible attempts. And its Western sponsors are clearly unable, and seemingly not all that eager in any case, to maintain the flow of support which has mostly enabled many tens of thousands of Ukrainians to be killed and maimed in a futile misadventure.
The refusal or inability to understand that Russia has been fighting a patient, methodical war of attrition, rather than the shock and awe war for television that Westerners have come to expect (and to lose) is blinding many to reality.
Unclear – how and where did Thomas use the “appeal to authority” fallacy ?
If I had posited Lukashenko’s claim that there’s a stalemate as and argument that there’s indeed a stalemate, I’d have been engaged in the appeal to authority fallacy.
Merely pointing out Lukashenko’s claim that there’s a stalemate, not so much.
Personally, I don’t interpret the mutual claims of stalemate as evidence of a stalemate, but rather as evidence that the parties are angling for a way to get into peace talks without either party appearing to have conceded defeat.
He used Lukashenko’s assertion that a stalemate exists as evidence that one does exist. Thus, Lukashenko is presented as an authority on the question under discussion and his statement substituted for evidence. The appeal is sometimes acceptable, e.g., when the question is one of fact or special analysis and the authority is one generally recognized as having the knowledge to provide an accurate answer. In such case, it’s still a logical fallacy, but may be useful.
In this case, Lukashenko certainly isn’t universally, or even generally, considered an authority on military analysis, so there really isn’t a solid argument for the usefulness of the citation.
I called the usage twisted because Knapp is appealing to the authority of one for whom he has repeatedly shown contempt.
“In my imagination, he used Lukashenko’s assertion that a stalemate exists as evidence that one does exist.”
Fixed, no charge.
You mean you just tossed in the “Lukashenko says so too” (paraphrased) as a point of information, or something? OK.
Yes — I find it interesting that “not at the top of the totem pole, but reasonably important” people on both sides of the conflict are claiming a stalemate.
What I did NOT do was claim that Lukashenko’s commentary matching Zaluzhny’s is evidence that what they’re both claiming is true. THAT would have been “argument from authority.”
To me, the question is: Why are both sides farming out the floating of “stalemate” claims to middle management?
Because that’s clearly what’s happening. Neither of those people would make a public statement of that type unless 1) they were acting on their principals’ orders in doing so, or 2) doing so was part of an attempt to rebel against or pressure their principals. I’m not seeing any evidence of the latter.
The best tentative conclusion is that both sides want to wind this thing down, but neither side wants the move to do so to be seen as an admission of defeat.
Stacking evidence toward a thesis. It’d be on you, Diss Area 51, to either provide evidence discrediting Lukashenko as a reliable witness OR to provide better evidence from a more credible source(s) that refutes the stalemate claim.
I don’t think you understand my posts in this exchange.
I am more interested in the semantics of your discussion with Tha Knapster (what a great site that was; like Pirate Bay but more whimsy).
Structure, Soundness, and Validity of arguments – plus evidence, of course – are of supreme interest to me.
Thank you for the clarification. Perhaps a very loose case for that fallacy, as I would allow that Lukashenko should be in a position to offer ‘expert testimony’ supporting the assertion.
Especially when a tactical or strategic “stalemate” cannot be definitively demonstrated.
“. . . as I would allow that Lukashenko should be in a position to offer ‘expert testimony’ supporting the assertion.”
It is in the very nature of the appeal to authority that the one making the appeal, and perhaps those who agree, believe that the appealed-to authority is sufficiently expert to offer dispositive evidence. As I said, that may be useful, albeit still a logical fallacy, when said authority is generally accepted as having such expertise. I’m not aware of any claim that Lukashenko has such expertise in battlefield analysis.
Let’s drop this.
There will be a Russian “break-in” though.
Europe hoping for a another mild winter. Might not be so fortunate this time around. Can’t count on the U.S. to step up deliveries as the mummy man in the White House depleted the U.S. reserves. “European energy stocks are insufficient to see Europe through the winter, and the US’s strategic reserves are depleted. There is no better time for this OPEC+ cartel to force prices higher, and by recently cutting the supply of 1.3 million barrels of oil per day that is precisely what the Saudis and Russia are doing. Heating oil and diesel prices are likely to rise strongly as well, if only because Russia has stopped exporting these distillates. The relevance of diesel is that over 95% of all European distribution logistics are delivered by diesel power, increasing the production and delivery costs of all consumer goods”. From Alasdair Macleod. The Future of Fiat.
The Europeans are reaping the consequences of their blind obeisance to the Butthead in chief in the WH.
And yet, NATO has expanded!
Whoops. Wrong again, Bill! You keep trying though, son!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/european-energy-companies-looking-at-storing-gas-in-ukraine-as-eu-nears-full-capacity/ar-AA1jj2wa
Also, your boy doesn’t seem like an energy expert. (Use the Google Machine more! Hahaha.)
“Alasdair Macleod is a former stockbroker, investment manager and executive director of an offshore bank in Guernsey. He is the head of research at Goldmoney, a platform for investing in gold and other precious metals.”
So what’s your point? His articles speak of more than money but how it effects world politics. As far as your ‘cough’ news coming from MSM, I believe anything they say as much as I’m holding the winning ‘Megamillion’ ticket tonight. As far as those supplies go, if they even exist, they will empty out real fast if there is a rough winter.
YEAH! Those reserves — if they exist — will empty out soon if there’s a rough winter! TAKE THAT, Europe!
Hahaha. F**king child! Right-wingers have such an underdeveloped psyche. It’s like arguing with a 5 year old.
That’s why you all adore Putin. He’s like a daddy to y’all! Yikes!
Well, in his defense, compared to US leaders, President Putin does seem like the only adult in the room.
Hahaha. OK.
Yeah, that’s the adult who sent his entire army into Ukraine killing over a quarter million of his own troops plus hundreds of thousands of wounded.
A true adult.
That’s a dumbass dictator who thought he could be Putin the great.
You are such a fluffier.
“…killing over a quarter million of his own troops…”
Ahhh, the way Bush II killed more “of his own troops” sending them into Afghanistan and Iraq than people were killed on 9/11 ?
Once AGAIN Donald, your garbage arguments come back to bite you in the duff.
Obviously you have turds for brains.
“Hahaha. F**king child!”
Says the grown man displaying the antics of a teenage boy.
Your rapier wit has slain me!
So the Europeans plan is to store extra gas in a war zone?
Perhaps read the article?
I did. As I said they think it is a good idea to store excess gas in a war zone. It’s almost like they want Russia to hit those reserves so they can drum up more war hysteria in Europe.
OK, then. We’ll see.
“Also, your boy…”
Really? Kinda what I would have expected to see on trash talk Political Wire from the regulars. Not too many people here care for the kind of crap you’re spreading. Just sayin’.
I like to engage the Tequila Twins. I find alternate realities in the minds of others a most intriguing study.
Denial, son.
But y’all keep referencing a gold peddler from Guernsey!
Hahaha.
I love that he blocked me! F**king coward!
Europe will be just find. You are dreaming for the worst to happen.
Keep on selling your discounted sh!t gas to China and India.
How’s that market going?
Here is a great post from @Slavyangrad on Telegram.
p.s. The Special Military Operation is definitely NOT a stalemate. The strategy of attrition is working just fine.
Zelensky’s downfall
Hitler killed himself in 1945, though it was
obvious to anyone and everyone who could have honestly advised him that if the war had not already been lost in 1942, it was clearly lost by 1943.
Yet he clung on for two or two and a half more years rather
than surrender when beaten. The only practical outcome of this was
dragging hundreds of thousands to millions of German and Slavic lives down with him.
As the war approached the end, this dragnet grew to encompass Western Europeans and of course, Jews from anywhere in nazi
occupied territories. By the final days, he was maneuvering units which did not exist and fabricating ones he needed onto the map, right up until he threw civilians into the front and justified it simply as, “If they die, they weren’t worth living.”
Well, here we are again. A year and a half after Zelensky had already lost this war he clings on. Ukrainian civilians are being thrown into the front, marginally “trained men” aged an average of 40+, and Zelensky is now ordering units personally which do not exist
The psychology both men possess is that of a gamblers. Hitler believed in the magical powers of the “superior race”, Zelensky likewise believes in the magical powers of Western armament.
Denial to the end, consequence of countless lost. Gambling addicts will always reach into coffers they cannot afford to lose, but will happily spend them in the moment.
@Slavyangrad
And plenty of dead Russians and burned-out Soviet-era equipment.
Which are being replaced. Who’s replacing Ukraine’s burnt out tanks and other NATO equipment that was destroyed by the Russians?
Americans with Abrams.
All 31 of them?
Perhaps some of the 3,000 in storage?
Ok, well let me know when they get there. The first tranche of 31 took about 10 months. Here from the NYT reporting announcement back in January:
“Over the past month, Pentagon officials had expressed misgivings about sending the Abrams, citing concerns about how Ukraine would maintain the advanced tanks, which require extensive training and servicing. And officials said it could take years for them to actually reach any Ukrainian battlefields.”
The problem seems to be getting them out of mothballs and into working order and the problem training and maintenance would still be a concern. Maybe they are already currently doing so, I don’t know. I guess we will know for sure when we can begin counting the burning hulks in Russian drone videos. Ukraine is running out of time and men to run the tanks.
NYT is now an acceptable a source! (I’ll have to remember that!)
Way to keep the argument on track Sporto. You really are funny. Quite the simpleton. When caught in a contradiction where you might have to admit that Ukraine may not be in the best position you dissemble, change the subject, or bring up some culture war bs to muddy the water. Your mental gymnastics are stupendous.
Ukraine is in the best position that could be expected.
You offer opinion pieces from the NYT as fact. (That doesn’t warrant a reply.)
dissemble /dĭ-sĕm′bəl/
intransitive verb
1) To disguise or conceal one’s real nature, motives, or feelings behind a false appearance.
2) To disguise or conceal behind a false appearance. synonym: disguise.
What was I disguising?
Definitions are hard, aren’t they? Did you mean to say I was “deflecting”?
See what I mean. Now you want to quibble more about semantics. Here’s the relevant part again. I suggest you read it carefully:
When caught in a contradiction where you might have to admit that Ukraine may not be in the best position you dissemble, change the subject, or bring up some culture war bs to muddy the water.
I even bolded the key part to keep it simple for your feeble mind.
Ahhh…You DID mean deflecting. Got it.
I did answer: Ukraine is in the best position it could possibly expect to be in:
1) Russia IS a much larger country, with a much larger population.
2) Even though their gear has been shown to be mostly obsolete they have a lot of it.
3) Russia had all of last year to build fortifications that have proven effective.
Considering all of that:
1) Ukraine has done VERY WELL since they changed tactics for Western style to attrition warfare.
2) They have eliminated A LOT of Russian personnel and equipment.
3) They have proven adaptable (unlike the Russians).
4) They continue to advance. (Avdiivka may prove to be Bakhmut or it may prove to be Stalingrad.)
Fact is, you don’t know for sure and I don’t know for sure but my comments are backed up with current war maps and yours come from the Russian MOD and/or their stooges.
Clear and concise enough now?
You are deluded.
1) Yes, and that’s why short of some internal collapse Ukraine was never going to win.
2) Yes, much more than Ukraine
3) Yes, why did Ukraine give them the chance to build those fortifications? Could it have something to do with the fact that Russia had destroyed Ukraine’s offensive potential which it has never truly regained (given it’s poor showing over the last four months where it has failed to gain back significant territory).
1) How have they in any sense “done VERY WELL”? They have lost up to 90,000 men over the last 4 months and countless irreplaceable pieces of equipment.
2) Yes, personnel and equipment that Russia can replace. During the same time interval Ukrainian losses have been at a (conservative) 5 to 1 ratio and I believe the Russian MOD puts it as high as 10 to 1.
3) I would say that after pulling back in late 2022 and fortifying its frontline Russia was adapting to the situation on the ground and overall that adaptation to an attritional model has worked very well for them.
4) They continue to “advance” into prepared positions where the Russians can promptly destroy any armor that is moved into develop said position. What part about defense in depth do you not understand? How many times will you need it explained to you before it sinks into your thick skull?
“Fact is, you don’t know for sure and I don’t know for sure.”
This is the first sensible thing you have said.
“war maps”
Which show incremental advances into prepared positions. You take that as evidence of progress when in fact it is no such thing. Otherwise your opinions are based on fantasy analysis by neocon bull shitters.
“ Which show incremental advances into prepared positions.”
Which is the only thing YOU said that was accurate. (Keep getting your talking points for the Russian MOD, son. Maybe you’ll be right at some point.)
Keep on avoiding the points I make. Once again since you refuse to address them here they are:
1) Yes, and that’s why short of some internal collapse Ukraine was never going to win.
2) Yes, much more than Ukraine
3) Yes, why did Ukraine give them the chance to build those fortifications? Could it have something to do with the fact that Russia had destroyed Ukraine’s offensive potential which it has never truly regained (given it’s poor showing over the last four months where it has failed to gain back significant territory).
1) How have they in any sense “done VERY WELL”? They have lost up to 90,000 men over the last 4 months and countless irreplaceable pieces of equipment.
2) Yes, personnel and equipment that Russia can replace. During the same time interval Ukrainian losses have been at a (conservative) 5 to 1 ratio and I believe the Russian MOD puts it as high as 10 to 1.
3) I would say that after pulling back in late 2022 and fortifying its frontline Russia was adapting to the situation on the ground and overall that adaptation to an attritional model has worked very well for them.
4) They continue to “advance” into prepared positions where the Russians can promptly destroy any armor that is moved into develop said position. What part about defense in depth do you not understand? How many times will you need it explained to you before it sinks into your thick skull?
“war maps”
Which show incremental advances into prepared positions. You take that as evidence of progress when in fact it is no such thing. Otherwise your opinions are based on fantasy analysis by neocon bull shitters.
Now to get back to the actual topic you claimed that the U.S. is going resupply Ukraine with more Abrams tanks to replace all the other MBTs lost over the course of the war. You made that claim without any evidence or context for how that would happen in a reasonable timeframe to be of help to Ukraine.
I then cited a NYT article that was reporting on the deliberations and final approval of 31 Abrams MBTs to Ukraine. In the piece it quoted sources as having concerns about training and maintenance. My point being that if the pattern hold and the U.S. approves the transfer of 1000 Abrams to Ukraine it would be another 10 months until they are even in country not to mention the problems the NYT piece raises.
The better question is why didn’t the White House approve way more than 31 Abrams? and what makes you think that they are likely to now approve a transfer of more in the quantity that would have an impact on the outcome of the war?
I can only speculate. Just like the ATACMS discussions, the US didn’t think they needed the Abrams or F-16s initially. I believe they were wrong.
The ATACMS have proven HIGHLY effective. Abrams may have to get into the fight before the US decides to send more but we DO have plenty of them. Same with the F-16s. We’ll have to see what happens.
The Ukes might not even need tanks anymore if the Russians continue driving theirs into the Avdiivka junk yard.
In a war of attrition losses can be expected. With a 10 to 1 kill ratio Russia has won the conflict already. Ukraine is now a zombie country staggering along before it’s inevitable fall and unconditional surrender.
Wrong.
Truth hurts!
Doesn’t it?
Oooh ! The OG_Thinker vs. Knockoff Thinker showdown !
I wondered when this would come about. Especially after last week’s “Thomas vs. Thomas” tilt, which judges scored a (6-2, 6-4, 6-2) win in straight-sets for Thomas.
Ah, THAT explains why you avoid it at all costs!
Nothing ever really beautiful about tens of thousands of dead and mutilated humans, General Butthead.
He meant to say it’s a Russian CheckMate…!
“There will most likely be no deep and beautiful breakthrough.” Begs the question, what do you consider “beautiful?” When I think about “beautiful,” the death of hundreds of thousands of human beings is definitely not what I’m thinking. A “beautiful” woman, my parents’ love, my children, “beautiful” nature, etc. I guess, this is exactly why I don’t understand anything.
Looks as if the West is about to admit defeat. Shame, tens of thousands of deaths could have been avoided if the West hadn’t refused to allow Ukraine to negotiate back in Feb. 22. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/western-officials-broach-with-kyiv-issue-of-possible-peace-talks-with-moscow-nbc/ar-AA1jmTmA?ocid=msedgntp&pc=EDGEDB&cvid=1831cf46cde046bfa0cd5c5f05900a8c&ei=56 “The Kremlin says it will achieve all of its aims in Ukraine”.
Why does the U.S. government get a say in when Ukraine ends the war? I thought that was up to the Ukrainians????
Seriously, though, this has the potential to lead to bad things for Europe. I can see disillusioned and angry Banderites turning terrorist in Western Europe. Didn’t Zelensky make some kind of veiled threat in this vein a few months ago?
Is this news from MSM? The one you don’t deem reliable until you do? Lol
How convenient.
Sooner or later even the MSM has to admit the obvious. Sorry Julio, you have about as much insight as a dung beetle.
Hey, Putin Lover, the entire thing could have been avoided if your dumbass dictator didnt invade.
Stop being a loser and blaming everything on the West.
We lay blame where it’s due – according to the facts in evidence.
Looks like your prediction of Ukrainian soldiers chasing the Russians back to Moscow was just a little off. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-forces-advance-swiftly-towards-vital-city-alarming-the-west/ar-AA1jpseR?ocid=msedgntp&pc=EDGEDB&cvid=ace25040c8824a558781e50a9f9795ab&ei=9
Not sure what prediction you are talking about but i never made such statement.
I did believe the counteroffensive would punch a hole big enough to make way to the eastern coast but kudos to the space General who built the defense line.
Interesting that it was not a ground forces commander.
Now go and shove your false statement about me.
LOL evidently your middle name is “Putin Lover”
OMG your name is Bill Putin Lover Smith.
Christ on a stick, you couldn’t make this sh*t up.
How much of Ukraine has been lost and now become an “integral” part of Russia? We never see any maps showing what the new borders in Ukraine look like. Do we effectively have a Western Ukraine and an Eastern Ukraine now?
“We never see any maps showing what the new borders in Ukraine look like. Do we effectively have a Western Ukraine and an Eastern Ukraine now?”
Amusingly, reference the election results map (the red & blue one further down in this article) :
https://original.antiwar.com/david_stockman/2022/10/09/maps-not-to-die-for/
“Nevertheless, the map below is truly the picture worth a thousand words. The dark red areas in the former Galicia, which Stalin had annexed in 1939, and which had become a hotbed of support for the Nazi SS during WWII, voted for the nationalist candidate Tymoshenko by overwhelming 90% plus margins.
At the same time, in the Donbas and the south, the dark blue areas show the presidential vote was overwhelmingly for the pro-Russian candidate, Janukovych, by 80-90% of better.
[map here]
So the question recurs. The discordant populations of the artificial state of Ukraine have shown at the ballot box during elections that were mainly free and fair according to international observers, that they wanted a divorce and partition.”
Ukraine’s Commander-in-Chief Says the War Is Lost