An Israeli minister said Thursday that Israel would not allow any humanitarian aid into Gaza unless Hamas releases Israelis it has taken into the enclave.
“Humanitarian aid to Gaza?” Israeli Energy Minister Israel Katz wrote on X. “No electric switch will be turned on, no water tap will be opened and no fuel truck will enter until the Israeli abductees are returned home.”
The comments came as human rights groups are pleading to allow aid into Gaza to prevent the enclave’s hospitals from turning into morgues amid a relentless, indiscriminate bombing campaign. Gaza’s sole powerplant has been turned off due to a lack of fuel, and hospitals only have a few more days worth of fuel to power generators.
“As Gaza loses power, hospitals lose power, putting newborns in incubators and elderly patients on oxygen at risk. Kidney dialysis stops, and X-rays can’t be taken. Without electricity, hospitals risk turning into morgues,” said Fabrizio Carboni, regional director of the International Committee of the Red Cross.
Doctors Without Borders also issued a statement on Thursday calling for humanitarian aid into Gaza. “Millions of men, women and children are facing a collective punishment in the form of total siege, indiscriminate bombing, and the pending threat of a ground battle. Safe spaces must be established, humanitarian supplies must be allowed into Gaza,” the statement said.
On Thursday, Egypt received a shipment of humanitarian aid for Gaza from Jordan, but it’s not clear if it will make it into the besieged enclave. Israeli TV has reported that Israel threatened to bomb aid trucks that enter Gaza from Egypt.
What did Hamas expect was going to happen when Hamas killed nearly a 1000 people and captured over 100 more?
Evil is as evil does. I question if the attack was a mistake or a path forward to absolute genocide.
So two wrongs will make a right? Israel claims to be the civilized partner in this dance. Is this just because they adminster death with higher tech weapons from a greater distance. You don’t think little bitty babies are dying in Gaza at the hands of Israel right now?
At some point someone is going to have to turn the other cheek, and not escalate violence.
Israel has already turned up the wick. 1.1 million have been told to leave North Gaza. Or else.
So that will be a sad scene folks trying to load all their possessions onto carts to go die of exposure somewhere else.
They expected Israel to over react kill hundreds of civilians and with some help from above see world opinion change and stop ignoring the 55 years of brutal occupation.
Well that is not a good plan. It will just lead to death and destruction in Gaza with little or no gain.
Evil is as evil does. I question if the attack was a mistake or a path forward to absolute genocide.
Not Hamas, drive people to despair and they a care-less of the consequence, it’s Israel who expected, desired and provoked violent resistance.
https://news.antiwar.com/2023/10/08/israeli-lawmaker-says-pogroms-against-palestinians-provoked-hamas-assault/
What did the current despotic administration think was going to happen after this: antiwar.com: https://news.antiwar.com/2023/10/08/israeli-lawmaker-says-pogroms-against-palestinians-provoked-hamas-assault/
What did Israel expect to happen when it allowed fascist “settlers” to go on murderous rampages.
End all US aid to Israel.
“End all US aid to Israel” You have to know that is not going to happen. This war will only increase the ties between US and Israel.
Never say never. Israel is losing US public support rapidly.
It’s only the power of the Israel Lobby that keeps the aid flowing.
End Zionist domination of US middle east policy!
” Israel is losing US public support rapidly” Do you any data to support said claim?
“78% of those 45 and older think the U.S. should take a publicly pro-Israel stance, but just 48% of those under 45 said so.”
It gets worse for Israel as the age of the sample declines.
Support among Gen X is 20 percentage points less than among boomers, and Israel lost another fifteen points among Millenials/GenZ at 48%.
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/13/1205627092/american-support-israel-biden-middle-east-hamas-poll
The US is not blind to Israeli crimes any longer and the rest of the world is even more aware of the true nature of the crisis.
Want those stats too?
Since the year 2000, support for Israel has ranges from 51 to 64 %. Gallup polls. Comparing the Gallup polls to the newest poll does not show a “rapid” decline in US support for Israel. The Gallup poll data:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/390737/americans-pro-israel-though-palestinians-gain-support.aspx
US support for Israel may change someday, but not for this war.
Believe what you want to believe.
The generational shift away from Israel is huge and will continue to grow.
The 48% support for Israel is Americans under age 45!
Among younger segments, that number decreases further.
Support for Israel in the US is rapidly fossilizing, propped up by a seriously declining baby boom population.
You and I have a different definition of “rapidly”. As for this war, the US support is there.
Celebrate while you can, Zionist.
Change is coming and this war will only further undermine popular support for Israel.
Of course the corrupt political and media elite in the US will support Israel until such time as they and their supporters are reduced in power.
That time is coming.
It is interesting that you think that I am a Zionist. I’m not. I’m a student of history. And as a student, I think Hamas attack on Israel is a mistake. Hamas knows Israel will hit back very hard and the Palestinians will pay the price. My simple question is what will be gained by the loss of thousand of Palestinians lives in the counter attack?
Gained? Nothing directly, but the Israeli massacres will hasten the decline of support for Israel.
If you believe that Israel is the rightful sovereign in Palestine, then you are a Zionist.
As I tried to explain to you, I followed this war from a historical point of view. To me a Zionist is one who believes that as “the chosen ones” Israel has the right to exist. I don’t believe that. Just because I believe Israel will win this war does not make me a Zionist. Does your pro Palestinians support make you Anti-Semitic? What I do know is that Israel exists and they are not going to go away.
I am convinced that this war was a huge mistake by Hamas that will result in a large loss of life on both sides and massive destruction in Gaza. Is gaining less support for Israel worth all the destruction and death? And there is no guarantee that support for Israel will go down enough to matter and stay down.
The political ripples of the Israel-Palestine crisis are already hitting both US parties
Lloyd Green
Biden may be the last unalloyed pro-Israel Democratic president – but right now he sets the tone of US policy
…
The Hamas attack also shook internal Democratic politics. In California’s Senate race, Congressman Adam Schiff is the only one of the three leading Democratic candidates to voice unambiguous support for Israel. By contrast, Representative Katie Porter condemned the loss of lives on both sides. Representative Barbara Lee called for a ceasefire and offered her prayers for Israelis and Palestinians alike.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/10/biden-netanyahu-israel-palestine-crisis-us-policy
It’s really the beginning of the end of Israel’s stranglehold on US foreign policy in the middle east. I look forward to a more balanced approach in the future. Perhaps it will lead to a gradual decline in US aid to Israel.
Unfortunate, attempts at negotiation with terrorists should not have been undertaken in the first place anyways, especially under these circumstances. Hopefully if Israeli Defense Force arrive in the “Gaza” region soon these issues can be resolved.
The brave IDF will arrive as soon as the population is dead, wounded, and weak from dehydration and starvation; but still, … better beware of ‘Ukranian’ Javelins and child terrorists.
They will be accompanied by American made helicopter gunships, to mow down any stragglers. Any numbers remaining will be bombed. The West will watch and cheer. Current child death count in Gaza: 587. The West: hip, hip, hurray!!
GFY, you filthy cheerleader for mass murder!
End all US aid to Isreal.
And how exactly would Israel be committing “mass murder” when Israeli governmental policy toward “Palestinian Resistance” has taken every possible step toward “reconciliation” and general de-escalation, with Israeli security forces even pulling out of Gaza, granting the region effective self-government, their ostensible goal, yet terrorist attacks and calls for genocide from these organizations did not cease. Israeli Security Forces routinely allow children hoping for “martyrdom” to attack their tanks and personnel, strikes against known terrorists use special forces instead of explosives for fear of civilian casualties, something that almost always results in far more military casualties for the Israeli government. The U.S. government has recently stated that “As long as America Exists, It Will Support Israel”, and as such the future for Israeli and U.S. cooperation against terrorism and attempts of genocide seems only bright.
Fq your Zio-lies.
Israel is an illegitimate occupier of Palestine.
It is a murderous, racist apartheid colonialist state.
Okay, let’s take this worldview and assume your right in everything you claim: Israel is an “apartheid state”, is an “illegitimate occupier”, so on. In what rational world would that excuse the genocide Hamas has publicly called for and attempted to commit, or negate Israel’s legitimate right to self-defense and live up to the promise of “Never Again”. Hamas’s strategy so far has been to concentrate its resources, weapons, personnel and logistics in cities and around civilian infrastructure to manipulate reactionary sympathy from the press and the public. Minor political disputes can be settled without large scale atrocities and deaths of innocent civilians, and any movements that attempt to use these tactics for their political goals and policies immediately cease to be legitimate political entities. Furthermore, in my previous response I explain how Israel has taken almost every possible step toward “reconciliation” and general de-escalation in its conflict against “Palestinian” militants and terrorists, and as such the repeated claims of Israel being “murderous” do not appear to particularly hold up. As the world comes together to condemn Hamas’s unjustifiable terrorism and support Israel, we can only wish the brave souls of the Israeli Defense Forces godspeed in their mission.
If Israel is an apartheid colonialist occupier, It has no right to self-defense.
“In my previous response I explain how Israel has taken almost every possible step toward “reconciliation” and general de-escalation in its conflict against “Palestinian” militant”
You think your Zionist propaganda actually proves something?
“we can only wish the brave souls of the Israeli Defense Forces godspeed in their mission.”
Although I do not support the killing of civilians, I hope the IDF pays dearly in casualties. The IDF is terrorist force out to commit mass murder.
When you cannot support your accusations with facts and evidence, violence becomes a very slippery slope. As an example, I could make a terrible claim against something (unnamed country, Iran, you?), then ignore all factual counterattacks and rebuttals to the contrary to commit horrific and absolutely unjustifiable violence against that entity. Rules and definitions for international conflicts, war crimes and terrorism must remain consistent across geographic and ideological grounds to prevent unspeakable tragedies from occurring, for both now and forever.
Hey moron, you’re not supporting your statements with facts.
You’re just spewing Zio-propaganda.
Israel consistently violates international law. The collective punishment of Gazans is a violation. The use of white phosphorous bombs is a violation. The settlements are violations
You’re a fqing hypocrite and liar.
For the white phosphorous allegations, it should be noted that while any definitive verdict on the matter has not been reached, white phosphorus is not typically used as a “bomb”. Rather, it has been used for purposes of signaling, obscuring, or marking, such as in a shameful incident by the IDF during the 22-day long campaign between 2008-2009. That being said, while I would lose some confidence in the Israeli Defense Forces if it turns out local military leaders authorized their use in cases that could put civilians unnecessarily at risk (white-phosphorus appears to burn much more than it kills) during this conflict, this does not appear very likely due to the fact that in 2013 Israel stated that they were working on new shells that would replace white phosphorus shells with ones based entirely off of gas, and that Human Rights Watch, the organization currently accusing Israel of using white phosphorus shells, once accepted a $470,000 donation from Saudi real estate magnate Mohamed Bin Issa Al Jaber under the condition that the donation not be used to support “LGBT advocacy in the Middle East and North Africa”, showing that they can accept compromising and/or promoting certain narratives in exchange for funding. Additionally, isolated instances of mistakes and errors do not invalidate a response dedicated to ending terrorism and attempts of genocide, and as such are practically irrelevant to the moral position of Israel as a state. As the world comes together to condemn Hamas’s unjustifiable terrorism and support Israel, we can only wish the brave souls of the Israeli Defense Forces godspeed in their mission.
Who should I believe, Human Rights Watch or a vile apologist foe Zionist mass murder.
The world is not coming together to support the IDF. The world, outside the bought off Western elite, opposes Israel and supports Palestine.
Soon, the Arab nations will overthrow their quisling governments and join the struggle against Zionism.
Even in the West the writing is on the wall. The Zionists have lost the support of Americans under 45 and it will only lose more support with each passing year. I’m dedicated to helping to make that happen
Sure, votes in the U.N. while “Palestine” is an “observer state” directly correspond to an entirely different situation involving terrorism and acts of genocide. Or maybe, just maybe, these are not the same situations, while young people who were told “Palestine” was about “resistance” are seeing the realities of the issue and finally waking up to support the right cause.
“Or maybe, just maybe, these are not the same situations, while young people who were told “Palestine” was about “resistance” are seeing the realities of the issue and finally waking up to support the right cause.”
LOL. Very wishful thinking. Israel’s barbaric mass murder in Gaza will have precisely the opposite effect, emphasizing the hypocrisy of the alleged Israeli opposition to terrorism
Except I can back up my “wishful thinking” with news and sources, while you seem to simply have endless claims of a worldwide conspiracy stacked against you. Maybe one of us is much more likely to be correct on this issue. As the world comes together to condemn Hamas’s unjustifiable terrorism and support Israel, we can only wish the brave souls of the Israeli Defense Forces godspeed in their mission.
“Except I can back up my “wishful thinking” with news and sources. ”
So why haven’t you?
We can only hope that the IDF pays a heavy price for its crimes.
Nelson Mandela said Apartheid in Israel is as bad as South Africa. His grandson visited there in 2019 and said it is worse!
Israel is one giant violation of international law!
And MLK’s granddaughter supports affirmative action, despite MLK himself dedicating a significant portion of his life for people to not be “ …judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character”. As for Nelson Mandela’s statement, while he can certainly have his own opinions, given the fact that he died almost a decade ago (leading to relevancy questions), was noticeably absent with his wife and family, as well as his wife having run an abduction paramilitary facility against “black collaborators” that ended in the death of a 14-year old boy in 1989 (Nelson Mandela separated with her in 1992 and only divorced her in 1996), his opinions alone are not necessarily the moral sweep you seem to imply they are.
Your MLK analogy is inept, as Mandela and his son both condemned Israeli apartheid.
Of course I’m not surprised that a racist Zionist like you would attempt to put down Mandela.
Mandela has far more “moral sweep” than apologists for Zionist mass murder.
You initially stated that it was his grandson, so clearly one of these statements is factually incorrect.
Sure, grandson. So? You want to base your argument on that quibble?
You’re obviously a vile racist and an advocate of brutality against non-white people.
And Gal Gadot, Madonna, Dwayne Johnson and Justin Bieber all support Israel in their counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations. Its relatively easy to find celebrities famous for doing other things who support your opinions, especially when most everyone supports Israel, and as as the world comes together to condemn Hamas’s unjustifiable terrorism and support Israel, we can only wish the brave souls of the Israeli Defense Forces godspeed in their mission.
“especially when most everyone supports Israel”
You’re a pathological liar. Only 48% of Americans under 45 think the US should support Israel.
The wall of elite and celebrity support for Isreal is out of touch with the general public because they are
1. Part of the Zionist minority, generally due to religion or ethnic affiliation
2. Bought off by the Zionist billionaires who control the US entertainment industry
3. Or afraid of retaliation from the Zionist billionaires who control the US entertainment industry.
Zionism is a direct threat to democratic rights and governance in the US. It is a major part of the US spiral into oligrarchy. In time, the dual citizens and Israel Firsters will be made to pay for their treachery.
Again, you cite evidence of some youth voter disapproval from before this conflict, while not at all addressing that I was mentioning shifts in this group due to the terrorism and attempts of genocide committed by Hamas. Furthermore, the caricatured and distasteful “arguments” of “Zionist billionaires” are and continue to be false, as “Jews” only make-Up 19% of the world’s 200 richest people. As to somehow knowing the “secret” thoughts and feelings of these same billionaires, as you provide no evidence or reasoning to back up this assertion, I could simply also just make wild conspiracies to support the positions I have previously described. It also appears that there’s like only one Israeli dual citizen in a high position in the Biden administration, so they sure would be having a hard time executing all the conspiracies you seem to keep bringing up.
Here’s s fact Jack!
Since the Palestinian attacks on Saturday that have so far killed 1,300 Israelis, the bombardment of the Gaza Strip has killed 1,900 and wounded 7,696 Palestinians, including 2,000 children and 1,400 women.
Before this latest round is over, the most moral army in the world will slaughter many more thousands in Gaza.
That’s not restraint!
Also, Zionists and neo-cons, along with their born again dupes, led the effort to get the US to invade Iraq.
That was the beginning of the end for US democracy and our economy.
So to hell with the interventionists, left & right.
End all US aid to Israel!
I have not disputed that there have been and probably will be civilian casualties in Israel’s counter-terrorism operations, however, this has been due solely to Hamas and other terrorist organizations hiding their equipment, weapons, and personnel in civilian areas oftentimes through either coercion or without consent (barely half of the population of Gaza supported a statement of attacking Israel), in order to influence the media and the general world. The invasion of Iraq being almost completely the product of one person’s policy agenda (Dick Cheney, a Methodist) makes the accusations of things such as “Zionist” influence also not particularly hard to disprove. The U.S. will not end aid to Israel, as the U.S. government has recently stated that “As long as America Exists, It Will Support Israel”, and as such the future for Israeli and U.S. cooperation against terrorism and attempts of genocide seems only bright.
Your quite good at parroting the standard lies that, thank goodness, fewer and fewer fall for.
While I don’t particularly feel like going down this particular rabbit-hole, you do realize that you are currently speaking in what now appears to be one of the few locations on the internet where pro-Hamas users (aside from users like Jack, I really appreciate them!) comment? The only real public, non online-anonymity pro-Hamas strongholds in the U.S. in universities recently suffered enormous backlash, and numerous democratic lawmakers have severed their connections with the antisemitic Democratic Socialists of America organization. As the world comes together to condemn Hamas’s unjustifiable terrorism and support Israel, we can only wish the brave souls of the Israeli Defense Forces godspeed in their mission.
I’m not a “hamas supporter.”
Israel however itself, fir whatever twisted reasons, supported hamas at its creation.
I’m well aware that Zionists have been trying to criminalize opposition to Israel for over a decade and view this as their golden opportunity to muzzle the rising public opposition to Israeli war crimes.
It won’t work.
Want some more facts?
The United Nations, the World Health Organisation and the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) have all denounced the order.
In fact, the evacuation order forced the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) into making a rare public statement on Friday calling for a pause in the fighting and questioning the legality of such an announcement.
“Instructions issued by the Israeli authorities for the population of Gaza City to immediately leave their homes, coupled with the complete siege explicitly denying them food, water, and electricity, are not compatible with international humanitarian law.”
The directive from Israel can be likened to an involuntary deportation of the civilian population according to Gissou Nia, a human rights lawyer and director of the Strategic Litigation Project at the Atlantic Council.
“The evacuation order may amount to forced displacement of the civilian population, which is a violation of international humanitarian law.”
Nia told Middle East Eye that this “can also amount to violations under the Rome Statute, the treaty that animates the International Criminal Court. The ICC has jurisdiction over the territory of Gaza and the ICC prosecutor does have an ongoing investigation into the situation
Article 8(2)(e)(viii) of the Rome Statute addressing war crimes prohibits “ordering the displacement of the civilian population for reasons related to the conflict, unless the security of the civilians involved or imperative military reasons so demand”.
A forced deportation is only a genocide if it intended to erase or end a culture or people, something that is not and has absolutely not been the intention of the both the current Israeli government and the governments before it. Otherwise, its just poor policy, like eminent domain and zoning laws in the U.S.. As for “international law”, laws are typically changed and/or revised through time to better reflect both the times and lessons learned, and as such they should simply be updated to better reflect the realities of this conflict.
It’s a war crime. I cited the relevant statute.
Suddenly you’re not so interested in facts.
Your comments here are lame apologetics for war crimes wrapped in an obviously cracked veneer fake objectivity.
Your intellectual veneer is far to brittle cover the bodies of tens of thousands of Palestinians killed by Israel in the 21st century alone..
And the Geneva convention only came into writing after the second world war, yet the world acknowledges that genocide was wrong even if it occurred before then. Official “war crimes” definitions are and continue to be the product of public understanding and opinions at the time they were written, and in cases such as these need to be updated to better reflect the complexities and realties of Israel’s counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations.
I cited facts. You respond with your opinion of how those facts need to change.
You’re just another Zionist apologist for mass murder pretending to be intellectual and reasonable.
His genocidal anti-Semitism aside, Adolph Hitler would admire the nightmare that Israel has created for the people of Gaza and Palestine. He and his propaganda minister Goebbels would appreciate the massive racial and imperial hypocrisy of a media that portrays Hamas as “pure evil” and “animals” for murdering white-skinned Israeli civilians but won’t say the same for the Israeli officials and military personnel who regularly murder Palestinian civilians and who create and enforce lives of pure misery for the brown skinned masses of Gaza.
-Paul Street
“Israel’s decision to cut off food, water and electricity to the blockaded Gaza Strip is against international law, the European Union’s chief diplomat has said, after foreign ministers met to discuss a response to the spiraling conflict with militant group Hamas. ‘Israel has the right to defend itself, but it has to be done accordingly with international law,’ Josep Borrell told media. ‘Some of the actions… cutting water, cutting electricity, cutting food to a mass of civilian people, are not in accordance with international law.’ His comments came a day after Israel’s defense minister, Yoav Gallant, announced a ‘complete siege’ of the narrow strip of land that is home to two million people, saying that ‘no electricity, no food, no water, no gas’ would be allowed to reach Gaza. Mr Borrell described the humanitarian situation as ‘dire’, as 150,000 Palestinians are now internally displaced, while intense Israeli air strikes caused a rising death toll.”
Israel’s Counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations?
You turn boldly turn facts upside down in order to rationalize mass murder by Israel.
You really are filth.
the conflict between Arabs and Jews intensified in the 1930s with the increase of Jewish immigration, driven by persecution in Europe, and with the Zionist movement aiming to establish a Jewish state in Palestine.” Further:
“Jewish militias launched attacks against Palestinian villages, forcing thousands to flee. The situation escalated into a full-blown war in 1948, with the end of the British Mandate and the departure of British forces, the declaration of independence of the State of Israel and the entry of neighboring Arab armies. The newly established Israeli forces launched a major offensive. The result of the war was the permanent displacement of more than half of the Palestinian population… 75 years later, despite countless UN resolutions, the rights of the Palestinians continue to be denied. According to the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) more than 5 million Palestine refugees are scattered throughout the Middle East. Today, Palestinians continue to be dispossessed and displaced by Israeli settlements, evictions, land confiscation and home demolitions.”
“As long as America Exists, It Will Support Israel”, and as such the future for Israeli and U.S. cooperation against terrorism and attempts of genocide seems only bright.”
Administrations and elections change. Support for Israel is for fossils!
As you go down the age range in the US, support for plummets to below half
https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.npr.org%2F2023%2F10%2F13%2F1205627092%2Famerican-support-israel-biden-middle-east-hamas-poll%3Ay2d8Gj2C0-dwB8Y9I3bR6J9dDeo&cuid=18764
even pulling out of Gaza, granting the region effective self-government
While controlling every aspect of their lives with a blockade.
Travel to and from “Palestine” was restricted during this period, but noticeably while humanitarian aid and other supplies and necessities for the populations of these areas continued to be delivered, resources spent to circumvent the restrictions on terrorist weapons, equipment and personnel are implied in your comment to have been somehow unable to be spent on improving the quality of life of civilians forcibly living under these terrorist militias. Israeli forces not being in area also means they are unable to effectively stop terrorism and attempts of genocide, something we have seen the unfortunate consequences of this week. Additionally, minor political disputes can be settled without large scale atrocities and deaths of innocent civilians, and any movements that attempt to use these tactics for their political goals and policies immediately cease to be legitimate political entities.
There are natural gas reserves off the coast of Gaza, which just might be a motivation for the scorched earth response of the Israeli government.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/jul/09/israel-war-gaza-palestine-natural-gas-energy-crisis
Yes, logically, as they have control over the natural water resources, diverting all they need before allowing any to flow to the Palestinians, they will indubitably take their natural gas. We can be sure the “mowing the grass”, the slaughter is multi-factoral, … not just revenge for the “rave rapists” and “4 beheaded babies”.
Israel will not allow them to develop it. That would give the Palestinians money. Can’t have that.
I believe this is referred to as collective punishment.
Hostage taking is collective punishment, so?
Israel has plenty of hostages in their jails. Palestinians who were rounded up for no other reason than they were Palestinians. Many are kids, teenagers, detained on their way home from school. Google it.
You want aid, you know what to do, hostage taking will not be tolerated.
One day Israel will get what it deserves.
End all US aid to Israel.
Overthrow Zionist domination of Western governments!
Then ask why Israel detained kids, taking them to jail for the terrible act of returning home from school. There are adults there too. I consider them hostages. Sorry, I had to return to respond.
Hamas isn’t asking, so I doubt its anything but propaganda. Did you see anyone on the “Day of Rage” even mention it, nah.
Are you having some kind of episode, or do you just black out the other side of the story?
One side claims to be “moral” and civilized.
Demanding hostages be freed is MORAL and CIVILIED, I’m not surprised you don’t know that.
Thanks for sharing the Zionist war pig POV.
Massive bombing and cutting off water food and electricity are just more Zionist war crimes.
The State of Israel is far more immoral and vile than any Palestinian group.
Just look at the respective death tolls. Israel kills 10 times more people.
End Us aid to Israel!
Demanding hostages be freed is different than a genocidal wipe out.
Freeing the hostages and suing for peace would stop a genocidal wipeout.
Unfortunately Hamas also claimed to demand the release of prisoners who they see as hostages.
Yeah “unfortunately” after hamas’s butchery, massacres, rapes and malignant mad-dog berserker homicidal exploits, nobody much gives a puck.
There were plenty of homicides in Gaza before all of this.
When there was movement on peace between Arafat and Rabin:
As you must know, Rabin was assassinated.
Look Dread, hamas over played their hand,
they didn’t think so much video would expose the satanic depravity of their atrocities, but it’s out and in front of the world.
Your old playbook of strike, hide and lie with preset photos and narratives to elicit, sympathy and support have been shattered.
The true reveal of their monstrous vulgarity and malignancy is out.
No mercy, flatten Gaza.
Nuke the depraved Zionists and Amerika for that matter
Cry harder, Gaza will look like a pool table.
Airliners taken out,, malls blown away. Americans won’t come out anymore. Economy destroyed
Are you antiwar leiny? LOL.
My playbook? I am antiwar.
Pro Hamas is not antiwar.
You are very binary in thought. Because I am not rabidly calling for the deaths of innocent people who have suffered, and who were not involved, it makes me pro human, not pro Hamas.
What should Israel do after these horrific attacks in your “non-binary” world, Dread?
The country of the greatest intelligence skills on Earth can’t find the perpetrators but must seek revenge on innocents?
That’s not an answer.
It’s not an answer to kill every living being to find them either, is it?
Why do Western countries like ours think that money is speech and bombing is talking?
Deflection, what is the proper (no-binary) response to these atrocities?
Negotiations. Then finding the actual perpetrators and punishing them.
Do you believe hamas would cooperate in persecuting the perpetrators?
No, but if you aren’t killing everyone, you might get help finding them.
Well, we disagree. Hamas was warned to get out of the north, nobody there will get killed unless they decide to stay.
They have already been killed. And Israel targeted doctors without borders, some 16 dead, destroyed ambulances, and they have stated that a very large number of children are patients. They aren’t there to support Hamas. These are helpers, people who risk their lives every day for humanity.
Staying in the north was a bad call.
And while some of the terror leaders have met their end the infrastructure that funds and support their ideology remains.
Where is the call from Palestinians for mutual peace and justice, not there because they don’t want it.
Right. Because msm routinely covers Palestinians.
Palestinians, everywhere, have only one thing to say and it never changes, death to Israel.
So how do you find lasting peace with an adversary who refuses to engage?
You can’t even point to ONE group of Palestinians who advocate for peace.
They have been under apartheid rule.
Does it ever occur to the pious fellows at “antiwar'”
that they steadfastly advocate for the ONLY political group on the planet who consistently call for the eradication of their enemies (in other words WAR), against the Jewish state?
You cannot find one representative for Palestinians calling for peace and reconciliation.
The charter of Gaza calls for the elimination of all Jews and Israel, how is that antiwar?
The hypocrisy is stunning.
“You can’t even point to ONE group of Palestinians who advocate for peace.”
Actually, I can.
And you can knock off the ethnic slurs or be gone.
Very good, never hear of them but most commendable, nevertheless. I should have been more precise,
“You can’t even point to ONE group within Hamas who advocates for peace.”
Well, duh — Hamas is an organization explicitly dedicated to a non-peaceful political ideology and a violent approach to implementing that ideology. I also can’t point to a Hindu monastery in the Holy Roman Catholic Church, or to a pacifist platoon in the United States Marine Corps, etc.
My point, Hamas is PRO-war, so Israel ‘s only option is to engage.
Yes, Hamas and the Israeli regime are PRO-war, so they’re obviously going to see the only “option” as “engaging.”
The poster is a thread jacker.
How about NOT slaughtering innocent Palestinians in revenge? Netanyahu is proving to the world that he is no better than Hamas.
Israel ALERTED all Gazan’s to get out of the north and across the Gaza River, if they stay, they chose the consequences.
As a legal matter, Israel has an internationally recognized right to defend itself from an attack, it does not have the right to commit war crimes against a besieged civilian population. Moreover, Israel is not “defending itself” against an external aggressor, but an imprisoned internal population that also has a recognized right to resist military occupation (but not, as is evident, to kill and kidnap Israeli civilians). To adopt the Israeli-US narrative, therefore, requires “ignoring Israel’s structural violence and cruelty,” Amira Hass writes, “and the context of the Palestinian people’s ongoing dispossession from their land.”
The population of Gaza is not “an imprisoned internal population.” It is an imprisoned EXternal population. Gaza is neither part of Israel nor part of Egypt, but is imprisoned between the two.
Under international law here are three principles that apply: “distinction, military necessity, and proportionality.”
“Distinction” means that combatants should not launch military attacks that intentionally target civilians.
Hamas, obviously, targets civilians; Israel does not. Denying services to Gaza affects civilians, but it is not a military attack against them.
Moreover, Israel is not under any legal obligation to provide services to a territory whose effective government has launched a terror attack against Israeli civilians and whose stated purpose it to destroy Israel (and to kill Jews anywhere in the world).
“Military necessity,” refers to “measures which are actually necessary to accomplish a legitimate military purpose and are not otherwise prohibited by international humanitarian law.”
Blockades and sieges therefore can be legal.
Humanitarian aid can be delivered, he said, but there is no obligation to do so if the enemy would exploit such deliveries.
A siege or blockade whose purpose was to starve the local population would be unlawful but Israel’s specifically-stated objective is to force Hamas to release the hostages, that Hamas has unlawfully seized.
“Proportionality” measures the impact of any legitimate military action against the impact it has on civilians.
“Proportionality” is not about the number of casualties on either side, but whether the number of casualties is acceptable given the military purpose. In past conflicts, Israel’s goal was to stop Hamas rocket attacks. This time, Hamas carried out atrocities against Israeli civilians on a massive scale, the goal — entirely justified — is to remove Hamas from Gaza entirely.
Hence the number of Palestinian civilian casualties that is “proportionate” under international law is much higher
“Hamas, obviously, targets civilians; Israel does not.”
You are hereby fined one diet Dr. Pepper and one keyboard for making me snort my current sip of the former on my latter.
As a policy Israel does not, while Hamas proclaims their murder anywhere/everywhere policy from the roof tops.
Attempting to defend the indefensible is not a good look.
“As a policy Israel does not, while Hamas proclaims their murder anywhere/everywhere policy from the roof tops.”
Correct. The Israeli regime targets civilians while pretending not to, Hamas is truthful about it.
Why do you think that makes the Israeli regime look better than its fraternal twin, Hamas?
Hamas propaganda is not a reputable source.
True, which is why I never treat it as one.
From your last post it sounded like it was your sole source.
Perhaps to someone whose only source is Likud press releases.
Blocked for outlandish exhibitions of stupidity.
Do get your news from the Sunday funnies?
Then let Israel release their hostages in the jails.
What “hostages”? Is Hamas even calling for that, no, because there aren’t any.
You’re just another one of the hive-minds here pretending war is what you oppose when all your bile is directed at the jooows, so transparent.
The other side is honest..
Free Free Palestine! 🇺🇸
And hostage taking is collective retribution.
Then quit complaining when “collective” measures occur against your side.
I understand you value one side more than the other. But my question is why?
My side values peace over terror.
Yes, in much the same way as the young Augustine valued certain things (“give me chastity and self-restraint, though not yet”).
Maher: ‘Your Moral Compass Is Broken’ if You’re a Lefty Siding with a Regressive Terror Group over Progressive Israel
Your moral compass is broken if you side with either of the terror states involved.
Do you condemn the slaughter of those innocent babies, women and children by Hamas? Just curious?
Absolutely. I condemn all slaughter of innocents by all murderers.
Haven’t seen you download on this latest massacre, so, you know, had to ask.
Any chance I could get that in English?
You did not comment on the particular heinousness of this latest atrocity,
I thought you might have filed it under business as usual,
when it seems to be anything but usual.
“In my imagination, you did not comment on the particular heinousness of this latest atrocity”
Fixed, no charge.
So when Mossad was acting like a terrorist against the British that was for peace? But why take sides?
Not a fan of Mossad or brutalities of Israel. They have plenty to be condemned for. But in no way does that or anything else justify Hamas’s rabid dogs of slaughter.
Still, why take sides?
The side committing atrocities needs to be excoriated.
The next, if any, “atrocity” by Israel will get my full-throated condemnation,
unlike you with this, apparently.
I asked why take sides, not take side with atrocity. Either you have comprehension issues or refusing to answer.
I side with the victims of homicidal butchery and demand justice, that’s what I do.
You demand justice? Why that country specifically?
They are a democratically designed govt, personal freedom is important.
So, I answer your question and … “Either you have comprehension issues or refusing to answer.”
What was your answer?
Because “that country” has a democratically structured govt in a region of authoritarian regimes often governed by religious zealots who are opposed to human rights, dignity and personal freedom.
That matters.
I see….So you deeply care for this county’s democratically structured govt. But will you show this type of chest beating devotion for Greece? Egypt, Turkey as well?
They are not under constant terror attack, but if they were I would.
You must take a firm position and not come up with excuses. Either you support countries unconditionally for their democratic structure or you don’t.
Of course, I support democratic govts, and stand by them when they are attacked by authoritarian regimes.
Now what about you? Do you and if not why not?
What makes you think that “democratic governments” can’t also be “authoritarian regimes?”
They can, Ukraine for example, and why my support would wane if not cease completely.
I thought I was going to get Analyzed but no?
Because “that country” has a democratically structured govt in a region of authoritarian regimes often governed by religious zealots who are opposed to human rights, dignity and personal freedom.
Or genocide if you’re into the whole brevity thing…
FREE FREE Palestine! 🇵🇸
They have killed several hundred civilians in Gaza, they will not stop until they have 19 times more dead.
That is how Israel rolls.
Kinda like the Germans would kill 10 for one German.
It is a GENOCIDE happening before our eyes, this very week. Without water survival is impossible. Maybe in the end Egypt will accept the refugees but in any case Gaza will be wiped out and become the latest Israeli illegal annexation (probably with the goal of building a canal to Eilat). Our states are accomplice of this new Holocaust.
Releasing the hostages would fix that.
After Israel got the hostages back they would just resume killing Palestinians until they sate their blood lust and thirst for vengeance, or they kill off the people of Gaza.
If so Israel would loose credibility, so they wouldn’t. Your excuse is just another transparent rationale for terror.
You want water and power restored, you restore the hostages.
Well, then Israel can restore the hostages in their jails.Even kids are in their jails, picked up just because they exist. Kids have been picked up and detained on the way home from school. Kids. Yeah, Israel has their own hostages.
Keep dithering, see what it gets.
I hope you get cancer.
Enjoying perfect health at the moment.
Thats’ truly unfortunate.
It’s “lose”, not “loose” or “tight”.
Loose credibility.
You’re a moron in addition to being a racist apologist for mass murder.
Israel would lose global support if it reneged on that demand, they won’t. That’s your real fear.
I have no fear.
Death to Zionism!
dream on joe.
You have to have credibility before you can lose credibility.
Maintaining global support requires it, just a fact.
The entire globe? Ever see some of them votes at the UN?
World opinion.
As long as hamas is dumb enough to hold those hostages, world condemnation is on hold. That simple.
We were talking about Israel maintaining their credibility. World opinion being against Hamas’ attack doesn’t mean Israel had credibility of the World before that. That’s why I brought up the UN votes. The US veto has saved Israel on numerous occasions. And recently the apartheid issue is causing them to even lose more credibility.
In the moment, world opinion supports Israel for that outrage and revulsion caused by hamas. That is the point.
To flip that opinion, hamas would (IMO) have to release the hostages and sue for peace,
but they are basically irrational, mouth-frothing, cretins, so, not gonna happen.
It’s the point because you deflected from my point. I questioned Israel pre-attack Worldwide credibility. I don’t believe they had all that much. The Hamas attack didn’t retroactively change that.
I’m not talking about Israel’s pre-hamas attack status.
The shocking horror demonstrating what hamas is has eclipsed all that.
I’m talking exclusively about Israel POST-hamas butchery.
I was. And you deflected from it.
You were, precisely to deflect from my point, world opinion was affected by the barbarity of the hamas attack. You just can’t acknowledge that.
Bullshit. Reread the comments in the order they were made. My original comment was about Israel’s credibility pre attack.
My point, refuse to acknowledge, is the game has completely changed after these blood-curdling revelations.
Now if you want to discuss something else, start your own thread.
I replied to your Israel credibility claim. You deflected to “world opinion”. If YOU didn’t want to discuss it further, then you shouldn’t have responded to my reply.
Start your own thread wars r u,
the game has changed with these revealing atrocities, that’s my point
You don’t get to dictate who comments on what thread.
You don’t have to like that.
That’s how it is whether you like it or not.
LOL, you don’t get to dodge, deflect, bob and weave away from the point of this thread, these atrocities demand action.
Your original point was about Israel’s credibility. That is what I responded to. If you didn’t want to discuss it further,you shouldn’t have deflected to “world opinion”.
No, that was your original deflection. The point is these atrocities demand a proper response, what would you advise?
How was it a deflection? I replied to what you fucking said.
I wouldn’t advise to “flatten Gaza” like you, Marco Rubio, Lindsey Graham and Niki Haley suggest. Good company by the way. I don’t believe in collective punishment.
Thank you for all the things you say you wouldn’t do, and nothing about what you would.
Hamas has pretty much ensured its own liquidation, but the Israeli regime seems hell-bent on making sure that it comes out of the whole situation looking no better, and in the person of specific political figures faring no better, than Hamas.
Well, I at least agree hamas is just about over.
So….. You believe that innocent people in Gaza should be denied basic necessities for what Hamas did? By that same “logic” innocent Israelis would be subject to being punished for what the Israeli government does….. or even what some Israeli groups might do.
Terrorism is a crime. It’s a crime whether a government does it or an individual or a group/organization does it.
FREE those hostages or continue the suffering, their choice.
Those are hostages of Hamas, not the hostages of the population of Gaza. The people of Gaza do not control Hamas and cannot release those hostages.
The government of Israel is engaging in a criminal act.
The people of Hamas VOTED and ELECTED hamas.
So, by this “logic” a civilian population is subject to punishment based on whatever it’s government does.
Careful what you advocate. It could come back to haunt you.
The civilian population has been warned to evacuate and given time to do so, unlike the grotesque mongrels of hamas would do.
You elect monsters, you are in league with them.
And Netanyahu funded them.
So did Iran, what?
Netanyahu wanted to elevate Hamas so that he could thwart a Palestinian state.
He claimed not to know about Egyptian intelligence informing on a very big event coming from them. A US representative confirms that he knew.
Look closer at who benefits from this destruction and rivers of blood.
I’m no Netty fan, the theory has merit HOWEVER the full on slaughter that resulted would make Genghis Khan puke.
Describing them as animals, is an insult to animals, vermin not even close, malignant homicide insects, close.
That’s your and hamas’s problem, everybody (including Arab states) are sick of them.
The thing is maybe some of us, myself included, were insensitive to your shock and mourning and anger. But history doesn’t dissolve in one gruesome act. And being enraged is not justification for killing innocent people.
Especially when there are manipulations from psychopaths in your own government. I know this from the experience of the US government .
You will become what you despise and your soul will suffer. I’m not religious so I don’t mean in that sense. Further, you will come to be despised by the globe with the fury that matches your own, just like the US. And it won’t bring back victims.
I have no desire to persecute the “innocent” but when malignancy hides behind “the innocent” collateral damage is inevitable.
Israel has put everyone on notice so it is up to everyone to get out or reap the wind.
“Israel has put everyone on notice so it is up to everyone to get out or reap the wind.”
Interesting logic insofar as it excuses every murder of an Israeli committed by an Arab since 1948, since when the Israelis have been on perpetual notice to “get out.”
We can go back and forth over the long tortured history but it changes nothing. These recent atrocities demand a response, sorry.
You want them to jump in the ocean?
No, move south of the Gaza river like advised. Now answer my question, what would you have Israel do after these atrocities?
Mourn. Be angry, be careful. US leaders have also ignored intelligence and have used provocations for alternative goals.
The reason I keep bringing up Netanyahu is because this solves some of his problems. He could end up in prison but this jarring act of violence has brought the country together, which is entirely normal, but he lives to be a free man. He has also funded Hamas as a foil to keep sides from ever coming together. His plan and the hard right want there to be one Israel, no Palestine. Before the horrid events, I read reports of stopping people from going to the mosque. There were also videos of Israelis taking over the mosque, and right leaning factions have said they will raze it and build a temple over it. Again, I’m not religious, but for people who are deeply invested, this is seen as a strong provocation.
Ignoring intelligence, funding and promoting radicals is a long term agenda for a psychopath. I would think about that. The US did similar behind the scenes phuckery to push a proxy war in Ukraine. Or get justification for war in Iraq, and too many instances to name.
Anyway, I’m sorry for your loss.
Well I don’t disagree with most of that,
however it avoids the obvious dilemma,
whether a setup or not Hamas is a malignancy that must be extricated, so how would you do that?
That’s a much deeper problem with no easy answers. We (not you and me, but our governments) often set up the enemies they want. My perspective in this situation is about the US government.
My perspective is focused on the complicity and support for continuing atrocities funded and supported by Iran.
Iran wanted this to stop a peaceful relationship between SA and Israel.
The US funds all kinds of enemy of my enemy scenarios with some of the worst characters in the world. Many people see it as difference between cultures and it is, but the larger picture is people behind the scenes looking to take resources and maintain hegemony. But the US is a dying empire and the globe will become multipolar because some of them have been left out of the game. BTW, antiwar had an article a couple of pages back that Israel said they saw no ties with Iran on this.
OK, but we are left with these atrocities and no acceptable way to deal with them.
Why is it, do you suppose, that there isn’t one (as far as I have seen) antiwar Palestinian group advocating for peace and justice sans exterminating every Jew?
Its ‘lose’ not ‘loose’ credibility, BTW. Israel doesn’t need to worry about its credibility because the propaganda machine in the West will give Israel all the cover it needs to keep the Western peoples duped. The current situation IS Israel’s fault to the extent of creating an intolerable and sadistic regime for the Palestinians. If Jews were subjected to such conditions and struck back at their tormenters, would you call them terrorists? Remember: sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.
NOTHING justifies baby butchering, wholesale slaughter, grandma raping, torture, mutilation and incineration!
Don’t forget the babies thrown from incubators by Iraqi soldiers….Oh wait…
Touche!
Deflection, much?
Babies were not murdered, you swinish liar.
That’s just false Zionist propaganda, which is no surprise coming from a “country” built on lies, land theft and ethnic cleansing.
You and your ilk have been outed, cry harder.
The current situation IS Israel’s fault to the extent of creating an intolerable and sadistic regime for the Palestinians.
I read this. That isn’t justifying what Hamas has allegedly done. Just placing the blame where it belongs. At least in part.
Hamas chose butchery, savagery and slaughter. The aggressor sets the rules.
The aggressor certainly does. They started with a blockade.
World opinion was not shocked to it’s core by a “blockade”. But it sure was after this satanic slaughter-house raid.
True indeed, if those things happened. Remember the raped nuns of Belgium in 1914? Fabrications. But let those without sin cast the first stone. Israel has created the situation it now faces. Palestinians are rebelling against the ghetto/concentration camp conditions that Israel has put them into. If it is brutal who made them that way? After decades of brutality by Israel you expect Marquess of Queensberry standards of conduct from Israel’s victims?
I don’t need your history tutorial to divert from what is in front of us now.
The world is shocked and justifiably aghast at the mutant, depravity of hamas.
Can’t cope with history? History just confuses us with the truth? You’ve now admitted that you’ve lost the argument. Just remember this: History is what this is all about and that is why your beloved Israelis are dying, because of their history of crimes against the Palestinians, which the Palestinians DO remember. Now – get on a plane to Tel Aviv and join the IDF and have fun in Gaza. And may you meet justice.
Just a stupid deflection. Sure we can debate history but this thread is on the current situation you so desperately need to deflect from, not happening.
True, nothing — including being in IDF uniform or calling yourself a “settler” when you squat in other people’s homes — justifies any of that.
Not even a remote comparison.
Nothing justifies murdering babies, torture, incineration and rape? Yet you advocate an actual genocide against innocent babies, elderly and hospitalized. The evacuation is total b.s. just like the wholesale destruction of gaza…in fact it’s a war crime. Your bloodlust for revenge will not work.
What to do then? Admit the atrocities committed by Israel, immediately stop new settlements and return the land stolen, Netanyahu should submit to a trial in the Hague, the vetoes used to protect Israeli crimes in the U.N. should be disallowed. Israel needs to own their crimes against humanity. But that won’t happen, they are above such laws! Clearly strong arm oppression of Palestinians has falter, as will the genocidal and illegal response we are currently witnessing.
Nobody in Gaza wants peace, you can’t find one “antiwar” advocate anywhere in Gaza, they brought this on themselves.
And if the people there are deluded enough to follow hamas orders to STAY, as human shields for political propaganda purposes, that is THEIR choice.
“Lose credibility?” Not in the US. They own us.
Taken out of context.
If Hamas returned the hostages and sued for peace, Israel would have to follow their lead or “lose (worldwide) credibility”.
It would give rise to more ground efforts. The main thrust is to clear Gaza of 1.1 million. Releasing the hostages will not stop that. The current fascist administration in Israel wants that area to expand the settlements, and there is natural gas off the shores that Palestinians were not allowed to develop, that Israel would.
Their choice.
Your attitude is a perfect example why there will be many more terrorist attacks and many more dead Zionists, and not just in Israel.
Soon, nowhere will be safe for Zionists.
But hey, that’s their choice.
My “attitude” exposes the putrid malignancy of you “cause”. But hey, bring it.
Your attitude exposes your own racism and moral rot.
You and yours celebrate the deaths of Palestinians just as much as hamas celebrates the killing of Jews.
We know exactly what you are Zionist.
Thanks for sharing the murderous Zionist POV, pig.
Taking hostages and committing atrocities gives you no standing in the world.
This is the beginning of the end for Israel, not hamas.
Nah, it’s the end of hamas and likely the annexation of Israel, followed by a new ME Riviera.
Israel is rapidly losing support in the US and other Western nations.
It has a stranglehold on governments and media in the West, but that will backfire as well.
Death to Zionism!
Yeah, meanwhile watch hamas disintegrate into oblivion.
You are a monster, i.e., a Zionist.
Pffft!
Will Israel be starting another organization so they can say “We have no one to negotiate with”?
Careful, “holocaust” can only be used in one context.
I predict that the Arab states will respond by vigorously sitting on their rumps and tirelessly continuing their dedication to doing “jack-fucking-shit,” the same as they have for the last 30 years.
NIMBY is a powerful drug. Especially if they are paid off to keep quiet.
Keep waiting for your captives…! They will not be released, rather exchanged with Palestinian captives in Israel…!
Israel has plenty of their own hostages. In their jails. Even kids. All detained for whatever reason, or, because they can.
Egypt is facilitating international aid flights for Gaza at El-Arish International Airport in northern Sinai, its Foreign Ministry announced on Thursday, emphasizing the urgency of providing relief to Palestinians affected by the Israeli military blockade.
Israel is losing it’s audience.
Free Free Palestine! 🇵🇸
Israeli officials have said that should trucks carrying humanitarian supplies crosses the border, they will be bombed. Middle East Monitor: https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231010-israel-threatens-to-bomb-egypt-aid-trucks-heading-to-gaza/
Good citizen journalism, VLP!
We’re all cats in this bag…
“Humanitarian aid to Gaza?” Israeli Energy Minister Israel Katz wrote on X. “No electric switch will be turned on, no water tap will be opened and no fuel truck will enter until the Israeli abductees are returned home.”
Sure, like those things would happen if the Israeli hostages were released. Who is he trying to bullshit? Can’t have that until after the ground invasion. Gotta soften them up so they can’t shoot back. It’s the IDF after all. They like shooting fish in a barrel only.
Israel has told the 1.1 million in North Gaza to leave, or else. No guarantee they could return. Some choice. Stay and die, or, go and lose what little they have.
Voltaire: “the strong do as they may, the weak suffer as they must”.
My country has chosen to help the weak suffer.
That phrase is attributed to the Athenians prior to the destruction of Melos.
I don’t know exactly where they will go but what they will come back to will be rubble. Israel is showing its “humanitarian” side. They want the people to leave so they can level their neighborhood. Gotta clear everything out before the ground invasion.
And that’s exactly the point – they will NEVER be allowed to “come back”. Israel will not allow them to evacuate into Israel, and expects them to either sit on top of each other, in unbelievably crowded conditions (2 million people in 90 square miles) with no electricity or running water, OR (the fiendish part) get Egypt to allow them into the Sinai, where they will sit, in tents, forever, while Israel clears, and then annexes, the northern part of Gaza.
This has been an ongoing process since partition was first announced; Ben Gurion had a “proposed state of Israel” map prior to partition, that included Gaza, the West Bank, much of southern Lebanon, the Golan, and a good chunk of territory in Transjordan. Israel’s land acquisitions, and actions, since 1948 can be seen in the context of that map.
Why won’t any other Muslim nation accept Palestinian refugees?
A couple of million Palestinian refugees live in Jordan. Another million or so live in Lebanon and Syria.
So what’s a few thousand more of their Muslim brothers? Egypt said no way.
I see you have never traveled to the ME. Most of the countries are overpopulated to begin with, and there are issues with water and large areas of land that are uninhabitable. I spend part of the year in Saudi, thanks to the west’s regime change adventures, coupled with tribal disputes, there are a lot of foreigners here already. People don’t realize this, Afghans, Syrians, Iraqis, Lebanese go to these countries to escape war and economic messes. Add Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia, on and on…
And you celebrate when the corrupt theocratic dictator Mohammed Bonesaw Salman and his brutal regime shoot and kill hundreds of innocent Ethiopians trying desperately to seek refuge.
Not really surprising coming from someone who cheers mass beheadings, who waves your pom-poms for Russian war crimes in Ukraine.
So maybe running terror missions against another country isn’t a good idea? Who knew?
And that makes it the refugees own damn fault?
When the people of Gaza VOTE for and ELECT hamas as their govt, hell yes.
Did all refugees vote for Hamas? And given that Israel’s preference was also Hamas, can we place any of the blame on them?
Wow an election where everyone votes for the same party, I knew were and authoritarian but come on.
Not only did they vote these blood-thirsty ghouls in they celebrate every abomination. And IF there were some who opposed hamas, they should have got the hell out.
Voting IN homicidal maniacs is not smart for a brighter future.
In the 2006 election, Hamas received less than half the vote, Fatah nearly as much, and other parties the remainder.
Yes, but a plurality and elected. Deal with the devil …
“And IF there were some who opposed hamas, they should have got the hell out.”
There goes your dirty displacement fantasies again.
You call other people “blood thirsty ghouls, but you wrote, “Nothing will match the north Gaza parking lot.”
Projection is common among psychopaths and pathological double standards are at the core of Zionism.
Hamas has it coming, they called it in, and it is rollin!
I’ll bet that’s what the SS said when they wiped out the Warsaw ghetto after the uprising.
I guess you would probably know that.
You’re the dude screaming for blood.
GFY Hypocrite.
Bye the bye, not even the Nazis used their OWN people as human shields, LOL, hamas lower than Nazi scum!
I asked if you thought all the refugees voted for Hamas. And you answer with:
“Wow an election where everyone votes for the same party, I knew were and authoritarian but come on.”
Brilliant.
And where were those who didn’t vote for Hamas supposed to go? They CAN’T leave.
South, as instructed.
And then what? Wait to die?
Vs. staying the north, the odds are much better. Now stop dodging, what would you have Israel do in the face of these recent outrages, what and be specific?
Nice try. So, if I don’t have answers then the making of north Gaza into a “parking lot” is the answer? Or killing or displacing 2 million people, 1 million of them being children, must be the answer? But I guess if genocide is allowable then let’s just level the entire middle east, including Israel, and we can get rid of a whole bunch of our problems all at once. Destroying Gaza alone won’t do the job.
So you have no answer, no meaningful alternative, welcome to Israel.
And leveling Gaza and the 2 million inhabitants is the ONLY answer. Welcome to Israel.
Not at all.
Notifying in advance (something Hamas would never do) all non-combatants out of the north (less than 2 million people) is what we are left with.
Of course Hamas could request a cease fire, return the hostages and sue for peace,
something you would think “antiwar” types would demand of them,
but neither Hamas or self-proclaimed advocates of “antiwar” will do that.
Makes ya think maybe … they want war.
Notifying in advance that they should leave so Israel can level their neighborhoods is humanitarian in your eyes? And then what? Once Gaza is leveled what do those people do?
Blinken ruled out a ceasefire. And you can’t possibly think Israel would agree to any request for a cease fire. Aren’t you paying attention? There is a ground invasion planned. And it’s humorous that you think this will end immediately upon the return of the hostages. You’re going to get your wish, Gaza will be leveled.
Being safe vs. being destroyed is much more humane than anything Hamas has ever done.
Those people supported Hamas, Hamas commits atrocities, the support for those committing atrocities demands eliminating their support structure.
I’m not talking about Blinken,
I’m talking about you pious antiwar-iors.
Why aren’t you leading the charge to have Hamas request a ceasefire at the UN, promise the safe return of hostages and sue for peace,
WHY isn’t that your cause rather than perpetual whining about Israel?
Ok, I’ll concede. Israel’s terrorist acts are more humane than Hamas’ terrorist attacks. And you can’t possibly believe that the entire 2 million backed Hamas. In fact, people here are using the fact that at least half of the inhabitants didn’t as to prove how terrible Hamas is. And doesn’t that destroy the “human shield” excuse? Or are they willingly being used as human shields?
You can’t talk about a cease fire without talking about the US. The US could stop the bloodshed in a New York minute. I for one would certainly want Hamas to request a cease fire. Not that it would do any good, mind you. You really must be deluding yourself to think that Israel would agree to a cease fire at this point.
I have no use for either side. One terrorist group is financed by the US and the other by Iran and others.
Well, not agreeing with everything you said but I do agree that the disaster is pretty much unstoppable at this time.
After enduring the outrage of a medieval slaughter against innocents from Hamas Israel is not about to let up.
The only hope would be for Hamas to take it to the UN suing for peace while releasing the hostages as a pledge of good faith, but they never will.
Like it or not those civilians were at least warned to get out, while Hamas urges them to stay, to die for propaganda photos, typical.
PS: don’t forget Biden’s admin reinstated foreign aid to Hamas after Trump cut it off, so the US is financing both sides.
You almost admitted the truth by saying Israel isn’t going to let up but then you went right back to saying Hamas releasing the hostages is going to stop Israel’s ground invasion.
And what US foreign aid goes to Hamas? I know we support terrorists, notably the Saudis, but you’ll have to provide a link for me to believe that we also send aid to Hamas.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56665199
!!!
They voted for their Freedom, anything wrong with that? What did you vote for?
They voted to be ruled by an internationally recognized TERROR group, that carries consequence.
The IDF soldiers are terrorists in uniform committing war crimes on civilians.
And what are the Hamas hang gliderers who massacre, rape, butcher babies and children, oh, you are so quiet.
Come back when you have credible evidence.
You, like so many here, are not antiwar,
that label is just a narcissistic fig-leaf
for hiding the truth, you are just anti-Israel.
Adios
Anti-war is not anti self-defense. The Palestinians have every right of self-defense, no matter what you say, and not only with sticks and stones, no, with real guns and bullets like their oppressors use.
Not talking about Palestinians, Hamas attacked civilians with ferocious butchery and they about to get justice for it.
Supporting a group who crossing an international border to murder non-combatants is an odd form of antiwar-ism, in fact it’s a lie.
The way to stop these atrocities is to administer extreme punishment, and it is on the way
So is that an admission that you’re not antiwar, or a proclamation that you oppose Israeli forces murdering non-combatants in Gaza?
Defending your country from homicidal maniacs backed by a political structure requires war.
I’m against offensive war unlike those here who have no problem with aggression but whine like hell when repercussions ensue.
You showed your colors many times over. You don’t even know that no international border was crossed by Hamas.
The extreme punishment causes ant-Semitism, but you can’t understand that.
Nothing excuses attacks and beheading innocent children.
You really don’t get it, that propaganda has been debunked, it never happened. It was Gulf of Tonkin, and Incubator baby propaganda and more, like WMDs in Iraq and the war that followed.
The real human animals sit in Tel Aviv, DC, Berlin, London, and Paris, the leaders of established so-called (autocratic) Democracies.
You are excusing the killings and shredding the bodies of innocent children with bombs, right? As long as the Israeli human animals do it it is OK with you.
And the proud perpetrators show you on film on TV how great and fantastic the bombing is with no IDF soldiers KIA.
Hamas has ZERO credibility. Release the hostages!
The world knows the truth, you do not want to know it.
Israelis are killing young children, they have killed hundreds, thousands of Palestinian children over the decades’ slow motion genocide of Palestinians. The world of Islam and honest Christians know it and many Jewish people opposing the Israeli policies know it, that includes rabbis.
The way to stop this would require a real sense of humanity, human decency and respect for other human beings, but human animals are just that, humans without souls, pathological killers.
Words, just words, the “animals” are those who BEHEAD infants.
That is what Israelis do, they kill women and children with bombs. The Palestinian population is very young, more than 50% are women and children and old people.
Listen to the hate officials in Israel and the USA are spreading, they are the official monsters, without a soul.
“BEHEAD infants” goes in the trash bin like the incubator babies, time you keep up with the news.
Taqqya.
What does a Shiite Islamic doctrine under which someone is allowed to pretend to not be a Muslim if admitting being a Muslim might result in being killed have to do with Lysistrata’s incoherent ranting?
Islamic permission to lie to “infidels” in it’s broader meaning.
“Islamic permission to lie to ‘infidels’ in the meaning I just made up for it.”
Fixed, no charge.
Your problem is not what you know, it is what you don’t want to know and could know.
All the outrage about the stupid Canadian parliament over a 98 year old SS man and the silence of the bombings and killings of some 100 children in Gaza on a DAILY basis. Do you have a moral compass?
That shows how bonkers, to put it mildly, the public of the so called Value Democracy really is. The outstanding thing about the US empire is the trail of death and destruction they leave behind every time they lose another war.
The destruction they left on three continents in the ME is unimaginable, think about it, in Africa, Asia and Europe, nothing but destruction and blood and death and the demented old man in the WH cares only about his Botox treatments in order to smile for the cameras.
Spare me your version of history, two can play.
The issue at hand is the monstrous attack by Hamas for no damned reason other than Iran wanting to touch off a war to divide improving relations between Israel and SA.
That is the genesis of this whole mess and Hamas is the rabid little puppet Iran exploited. Whatever happens to Hamas is the direct result of their insanity.
Israeli pilots are killing about 100 Palestinian children daily, they are war criminals. But you would not know this because you do NOT want to know.
I don’t know details, but I did read that some pilots do refuse to follow criminal orders, there are orthodox Jewish rabbis who oppose the Likud Zionist politics, and many Israelis but as in most of the US/NATO democracies such people will not even be mentioned in our corrupt MSM.
A free and critical press is the oxygen of Democracy, without that Democracy will die. In France and Germany they banned pro Palestinian demonstrations. Why do they think that is necessary if they only do what is right? Killing children to serve Israeli and US interests is justified, it is profitable for the MIC.
When you play the part of Iran’s monkey, that’s what you get.
The pilots are Israeli soldiers with character and morals, something you can’t say for Netanyahu and Biden and their morally bankrupt administrations.
You start a war; you get a war. War is hell.
There are the Geneva Conventions to preserve a minimum of human decency, I see nothing of that in Gaza. The Israeli brutality has no limits and Biden and the neocon scum in the American so-called democratic government fund and support it. The people who provoke others are the aggressors.
When you think the Americans are your friend you will find out how fatal that is. The USA supports the total destruction of the ME that is not in Israel’s best interests.
I don’t accept messaging from those who support infant beheading.
Ignoramuses’ like you don’t count.
The Israelis and the USA want war with Iran they are on the way to get it.
Lehi, Haganah, Irgun, et al. all thought it was a great idea.
Maybe you don’t know, Menachem Begin was a leader of Irgun the Zionist terrorist group, and so were a number of Israeli Prime ministers.
The Zionists were much more brutal than Hamas resistance fighters. Irgun terrorists were responsible for big massacres.
The Deir Yassin massacre took place on April 9, 1948, when around 130[1] fighters from the Zionist paramilitary groups Irgun and Lehi killed at least 107 Palestinian Arab villagers, including women and children, in Deir Yassin, a village of roughly 600 people near Jerusalem, despite having earlier agreed to a peace pact. The massacre occurred while Jewish militia sought to relieve the blockade of Jerusalem during the civil war that preceded the end of British rule in Palestine.[4]
You can’t change history but you can change the present when BOTH sides decide to, Hamas refuses.
Did Biden and Netanyahu try diplomacy or even hint to willingness to end the slaughter and negotiate peace?
I must have missed it.
You “missed” the most barbaric slaughter of INNOCENT people since Genghis Khan,
if Hamas wants to negotiate, they could RELEASE the hostages and sue for peace, but mad-dogs tend not to do that.
I happen to live now, and now I voice my anger and disgust of the government committing war crimes in my name. I am a Mensch I have feelings and a conscience and a moral compass, our elected officials the legislative and executive branch of government have neither. They are war criminals from which I must distance myself. That is my right.
Fine, but not condemning the butchery of babies, women, children and the elderly in a slaughter, makes you part of Hamas.
The Israelis are doing exactly that to Palestinian children, women and elderly people , they are the butchers. They kill peaceful Palestinian demonstrators using snipers to kill or cripple them by shooting their knees. MSM does not tell you how really ugly and inhumane Israelis are.
If you were informed you would know better.
You can’t bring yourself to condemn even that, that’s what’s wrong with the world, faced with horrors and act like the Germans under the Nazis, pretend to not see.
Putin and the Chinese leaders have made constructive initiatives and diplomatic suggestion to deescalate the siege of the Palestinian people, from Tel Aviv and DC we get nothing but escalation and more hate against the Palestinian people.
There is no sense of humanity in the West, just hate and justification for their war crimes, not an inkling of a will to end the slaughter.
The siege of Leningrad lasted about 3 years and took the life of about one million people, do the Israelis intend to beat the Nazis in war crime statistics? No human rights for the Palestinians, medals for the most people killed? In what way are people like Biden and Netanyahu better than Adolf?
All the rage about the applause of the Canadians for an old SS man and the silence and encouragement of the genocide of the Palestinian people, the killing with bombs, including white phosphate bombs, of women and children in GAZA. The Israelis and their supporters are human animals.
Russia and China have their own agendas,
Hamas is the group who needs to make “constructive initiatives and diplomatic suggestions to deescalate” but no, they want this.
Did Biden and Netanyahu even try diplomacy?
I don’t think so, Biden did stop any diplomacy in Ukraine, he is not about to do any better here. If and when he and Netanyahu do, let me know. Hamas needs an opponent ready to negotiate an empty chair does not work.
Has Hamas? Without Hamas, what’s the point?
How do you know if you don’t try and find out?
Biden refused any diplomacy in Ukraine, he even stopped the Zelensky initiative, or do you know something no one else knows?
No word from Hamas about releasing the hostages, the primary and legitimate demand of Israel and all civilized people.
Any word from the Israelis to release the 5 thousand or so young Palestinian incarcerated without trial hostages? Israeli Zionists are extremely brutal people.
Any word by the Israelis to release Palestinian hostages?
Yeah, the US-client government in Egypt wouldn’t endanger billions of dollars of yearly bribes merely for the sake of fundamental decency.
We’ll see what Egypt will do now.
And it’s a shame that they’re treated as “refugees” in Jordan, which is the bulk of Palestine.
True. And half the population of Jordan is Palestinian.
In the old days before the partitions.
Maybe for the same reason nations didn’t accept some of those Germans during the Third Reich?
Oh, so Hamas like those Nazis are beneath contempt?
You are clearly beneath contempt.
LOL, dunked!
GFY
Oh, so you don’t see your statement echoes the fact that other nations didn’t accept some of those people from Germany, that ended up in the camps?
Wanna compare numbers of refugees accepted by different nations?
Oh, so you don’t see your statement echoes the fact that other nations didn’t accept Jewish refuges from Germany?>
Your deliberate misinterpretation gets you nowhere, a rational response would be more constructive.
Because the answer is obvious, nobody wants deranged, psychopathic zealots in their country.
We have a deranged pathological liar for president, anything is possible.
Well, Lysis gets one right.
And yet here you are.
We could take them, we have lots of empty flyover land, the Muslim nations already have millions of Palestinian refugees, Europe also is full of refugees. The Gaza refugees some 80% are already 3rd or fourth generation refugees.
We already have too many illegals, homeless drug debilitated, so, no.
But you support creating more refugees all over the globe including Latin America. The US and NATO are stoking war all over the globe, they are the real human animals that includes the Israelis.
Biden is all about war, not even a hint to want peace and end the slaughter and shredding of the little baby bodies with bombs and bullets, never a thought about all that, all he knows is war, and all that comes with it, how evil.
Mature, and humane people are only on the other side, Russia and China.
Can you understand how traumatized Palestinian children are? What happened to your humanity? Be a Mensch, for God’s sake.
No “humanity” for how traumatized Israel children are? Interesting.
The US isn’t “creating “refugees in SA, Biden is luring them.
And yes, the Biden admin /NATO are absolutely responsible for the Ukrainian mess, so stop voting for the establishment candidates.
And if you “think” Russia and China are the moral beacons of the world MOVE there then tell us.
They don’t have to be perfect, but they have to show character and human decency and that they do. They are statesmen with a moral compass. They can only try to make it a better world, more war is not the way to go. Biden does not get that, he goes to church and that is about it. He has no soul and the same goes for Netanyahu.
Condemn murder or we are done here.
You start and I will follow you, actually you should follow me. I have condemned murder, war crimes, loud and clear. You defend the killings as long as they are Israelis DOING the killing. If they do it, you label it self-defense. In your eyes Palestinians have no rights, no justification for self-defense. They do not even have basic human rights, not even their children, they are human animals, according to the Israelis and you.
You’ve been outed.
I will not vote again, ever. It is useless, I know we have fake democracy, so why vote?
He doesn’t include the Americans held hostage to be set free? How come?
Since Egypt isn’t opening their border, Israel has come to accept the only solution is the final solution.
Sisi is in a bad spot, can’t feed his people, currency problems, water/food supply issues, he has been literally begging citizens there to stop having so many children because the economy can’t support them. Keep in mind that is with a lot of them working in Gulf countries and sending money home. Israel wants those natural gas offshore deposits, plus clearing the pesky natives will open up Gaza to developers….Resorts, high priced waterfront apartments, tourists, etc…
Even more delusional than your usual rantings if you believe that BS.
It is understandable that no country, with their own problems, would automatically accept over a million refugee all at once. But given the situation, Israel wants that strip and wants these people out of their. The question now comes down to will they play NIMBY as they watch bodies pile up at their border?
Come to accept?
Hmm.
Translation! We will starve out your women and children until we get ours back. Three minutes without air, three days without water, or three weeks without food. People die! GET IT? So much for the suffering of fellow human beings. Does not matter if their women and children.
This seems to be a case of “punish the victims”.
The hostages, yeah.
Even if all captives freed, Israel will follow the example of the USA and renege. That is the trouble with lying. No more trust.
crime against humanity
Israel Created Hamas
1. Israel definitely preferred and encouraged Hamas, because doing so weakened the Palestinian Authority and undermined progress toward a two-state solution.
2. Jimmy Dore is not a reliable source, nor is he a competent analyst.
Dore is not always right, but he is more reliable than MSM. The real horror is the fact that a comedian is more reliable than MSM in print and electronics.
Is it just me… Or is this Nazi-esque?
It is not just you, Gaza is a bigger concentration camp then Auschwitz was. Some 3 million people live in Gaza, almost half of them children, the Israelis claim 6 million died in the holocaust. I mention it to point out the size of the Gaza war crime. Denying water, electricity food and medication, and bombing civilian targets are war crimes.
Yes, let’s starve and thirst millions. That’ll teach them.
Do they want to beat Hitler’s 3 year siege of Leningrad?
Something they would be proud of?
Comparing Russian resistance to Palestinian? Wont last 3 months.
Why not, I will add the Jewish resistance against the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto also.
Another false equivalency.
In what way is it false?
Tell me how long did that resistance in Warsaw last?
The point is the motivation and the will to resist. What else can one expect?
They did what one would expect, fight back, they had nothing to lose.
Really? Then Israel should first release the 5,000 Palestinian political prisoners it has.
Israelis have been blocking any humanitarian treatment of Palestinians for decades, really war crimes against civilians, in
collusion with the US and the Europeans. Together they ganged up on the Palestinian people, they are the real human animals and are not likely to act humanely.
Will it make any difference if the hostages are released, or, exchanged for the Palestinians sitting in jails,also hostages? From what I have read, some of the hostages Hamas has are IDF soldiers.
And now Israel has turned the water back on in Gaza in some locations, which they will undoubtedly point to as proof of their ‘goodness’. More likely, Israel saw the worldwide backlash of bad PR it was getting and knew they’d better walk it all back pronto.
The Rafah crossing to Egypt will be opened soon as well; this only after it went on network news that Americans in Gaza could not get out as the evacuation roads were being bombed by Israel.