On Wednesday, Hamas offered to release all remaining Israeli hostages in exchange for a permanent ceasefire and full Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip.
Hamas spokesman Hazem Qassem made the offer in a statement outlining the Palestinian group’s conditions for a second phase of the ceasefire deal.
“We are ready for a second phase in which the prisoners will be exchanged in one go, within the criterion of reaching an agreement that leads to a permanent ceasefire and a complete withdrawal from the Strip,” Qassem said, according to Al Jazeera.
The Times of Israel reported that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s demands for the second phase include Hamas being disarmed and removed from Gaza, which Qassem rejected. Netanyahu also wants the Palestinian Authority not to be involved in Gaza.
“The occupation’s condition of removing Hamas from the Gaza Strip is a ridiculous psychological war, and the withdrawal or disarmament of the resistance from Gaza is unacceptable,” Qassem said.
Hamas is releasing six Israeli hostages on Saturday, twice the amount initially agreed to under the ceasefire deal. Qassem said Hamas was doubling the number of prisoners to be released “in response to a request from the mediators and to prove our seriousness in implementing all the terms of the agreement.”
On Thursday, Palestinian Islamic Jihad will release the body of one Israeli captive, and Hamas will release three bodies, including Kfir and Ariel Bibas, who were only aged four and nine months when kidnapped during the October 7 attack on southern Israel. Hamas said in November 2023 that the Bibas children and their mother were killed by an Israeli airstrike in Gaza.
The Mujahideen Brigades, the armed wing of the Palestinian Mujahideen Movement that operates separately from Hamas, said that it has been “preserving” the bodies of the Bibas family and confirmed they would be released on Thursday.
Amid the negotiations for the second phase of the ceasefire, Israel continues to kill Palestinians in Gaza. Palestinian security sources told Al Jazeera on Tuesday that since the truce went into effect on January 19, Israel had violated the ceasefire 266 times, killing 132 Palestinians.
Excellent!!!
There will be no phase two.
That works for Bibi.
Its commonplace to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization, however, anyone who has been following the conflict can conclude that the Palestinian resistance has been the good actor in all of this. Even Egypt which claims to act as a "neutral" mediator secretly wants the destruction of the resistance. What Israel hasn't accomplished on the battlefield, it will not accomplish in negotiations even if they go back to fighting.
The "good actor" committed a pogrom on Oct 6,killing 1500 Israeli civilians. The response cost 50,000 Palestinian lives,and rended Gaza a wastland. The only victors were the ideologues.
I know you have to have a knee jerk reaction to recycle old garbage. However, the world is seeing today in the hand over how the resistance humanely honored the bodies Israel killed compared to how Israel deals with non-yehud dead. Stark difference.
Look in the mirror man. Hamas made the handover of dead children into a propaganda event. They threatened to cancel the return of the bodies if the ICRC did not participate in a “ceremonial” signing. They handed over locked coffins with keys that did not work. These are despicable human beings who know no limit to their depravity. Don’t worry. As they say in Israel: “we will not forget and we will not forgive”.
"Depravity" is the gunning down of innocent women and children.
Innocent?
The Nova festival goers were enjoying a ‘music festival’ Rave … 300 were killed
The facts
1. The Nova festival goers (20-40 year olds) were mostly off duty soldiers and reservists. Conscription is mandatory. A few would have had light firearms. According to Israeli rules of engagement they can target unarmed resistance fighters even if innocent civilians are around.
2. The Nova festival had a permit to end on October 6th but a last minute extension was granted despite military concerns over security. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-25/ty-article/.premium/idf-allowed-rave-later-attacked-by-hamas-despite-key-officers-concern/0000018c-9d78-ddc3-a1bf-bf7edca30000?utm_source=chatgpt.com
3. It was negligently held close to the border fence, within simple rocket range needlessly endangering many lives, not to mention the callousness of "celebrating" while 3 miles millions of innocent people live in an open air prison.
4. Festival goers were killed by Israeli gunfire, the Hannibal Directive and by a helicopter gunship. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/10/07/unanswered-questions-hang-over-october-7-in-absence-of-official-inquiry-one-year-on_6728497_4.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com
5. What tends to damn Israel most is that as of February 2025, the Israeli government has not initiated an official state commission of inquiry into the events of October 7, 2023, including the attack on the Nova Music Festival. Much less any independent International inquiry with access to all the evidence.
6. In short, because of Israeli negligence, delay in arriving, killing its own people, Hamas stumbled upon the festival as part of a larger operation.
@tzatz:disqus@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
Deflection …
How did it make you feel to see Omer kiss the heads of the Hamas fighters?
How did it make YOU feel to see IAF jets buzzing over the Beirut crowd attending Nasrallah’s funeral ceremony?
It’s a rhetorical question …. eh?
Beep … Beep
I'll tell you exactly how it made me feel. Proud!
Proud that the "mighty, invincible" Israel is so broken that what it could not accomplish on the battlefield –where men are measured– was relegated to petty expressions of Narcissistic Injury & Compensatory Aggression, Cognitive Dissonance & Symbolic Victory, Bully Syndrome (Aggression After Humiliation), Revenge Fantasy & Psychological Warfare, Deflection & Projection of Weakness, Power Projection as a Coping Mechanism, Cognitive Dissonance & Manufactured Victories, The "Wounded Predator" Syndrome, Projection of Weakness Onto the Enemy.
I love all of these little western constructs to try to explain a simple reality; The flyover of Nasrallah’s funeral and the rhetoric that followed are not acts of strength but acts of psychological insecurity, aimed at maintaining the illusion of dominance. This is a classic case of a militarily superior power struggling to accept a battlefield reality, and instead of adapting, it engages in symbolic theatrics to preserve its own self-image.
We Muslims are indebted to the Children of Israel for the so many lessons they teach us. Observing their history and their present predicament increases our faith, makes us proud to be Muslims and insures us of inevitable victory.
Look at what the Quran says about Pharaoh and the children of Israel. These are Pharaoh's words
"Indeed, they (the Children of Israel) are but a small band. And indeed, they have enraged us. And indeed, we are a cautious army." Q. 26: 54-56
In today's context Hezbollah are the Children of Israel and Israel is Pharaoh.
And this will be the result of Israel's arrogance:
"So We expelled them (Pharaoh and his people) from gardens and springs. And treasures and an honorable station. Thus it was, and We caused the Children of Israel to inherit it." Q. 26: 57-59
In today's context Netanyahu and Israelis are Pharaoh and his people, and we the Muslims (and Christians) who are indigenous to the land are the "Children of Israel."
For 32 years Hassan NasrAllah haunted Israel in life, and haunts it now in death.
It made me feel very proud to see Israel confounded again and again… and again…
After all, Israel abuses it's prisoners, tortures them, punishes and humiliates them, prohibits them from family visits, withholds food, water and privileges, holds them in solitary confinement, threatens them and their families, rapes them, tortures them and kills them.
Now answer my questions. How did it feel to see Omer kiss the heads of his captors? How did it feel to see those cute plump little Israeli army girls come out all smiles and waving to the crowds? How did it feel to hear one of them –in Arabic– thank her captors for protecting them from Israeli bombs? How did it feel to see those two soldiers who are expected to be freed in the next round be allowed to see their compatriots being released as they wait they're turn? How did it feel to hear 85-year-old Yocheved Lifshitz speak well of her captors, and see that iconic video of her turning around and waving to them in poetic terms of endearment? How did it feel?
These are not rhetorical questions.
@tzatz:disqus@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
A man with a gun to his head isn't free to express himself.
I agree but that's not the point @disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus. The point is Hamas preserved their lives under the most difficult of conditions, all of which were created by Israel e.g., bombing and blockade of food, water, etc. If these conditions didn't exist we would say it was similar to Stockholm syndrome. Hamas didn't take them captive to harm and humiliate them, they took them captive to trade them for Palestinian prisoners who are harmed, dehumanized, tortured, raped and killed.
The reason he kissed his captors' heads is because he had a paradigm shift. He could have been your son; raised to hate Arabs and Muslims. He encountered something radically different.
It makes sense of course you stole their land, displaced and killed them so you are always afraid that some day you will be made to pay for it so you deflect by projecting everything bad in you against those you oppress.
@tzatz:disqus@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
Exceedingly weak. No one is convinced by any of those points.
The basic issue is that you support a terrorist group that illegally occupies Gaza and that targets a US ally for murder and destruction. You can try to wave that away but that fact remains at the core of everything you say.
I dare say most rational people are actually convinced. It's difficult accepting anything from someone who backed out of a debate out of fear of losing.
Hamas is labeled a terrorist group by Israel, most of the West and its lackeys. In sheer numbers they are a minority of states and a small portion by actual population of the world. In other words the overwhelming majority of the world does not see them as a terrorist organization. In addition, large numbers of people in those countries that label Hamas as a terrorist organization sympathize with them as freedom fighters (even some young American Jews). Furthermore, even if they are viewed as a terorist organization, its enough that Rabin is reported to have said "If I were a young Palestinian I would've joined Hamas."
Hamas does not illegally occupy Gaza. It was voted in by the Palestinian people. When Fatah/PA refused to give up power and it detained and tortured Hamas members, Hamas went to the preventive security forces just to teach them a lesson. They fell like a house of cards and abandoned their posts. Hamas took what was rightfully theirs.
Israel has done nothing but harm the US. It is a strategic liability that has cost the US a loss of money needed at home to take care of its own population. It has hurt the US's standing in the world when every year some 180 countries vote for the two state solution and the US vetoes it. Israel stole uranium from the US to make nuclear bombs. It spies on the US and steals national secrets.
Stop lying that Hamas wants to murder Israelis. Its a liberation movement. Being the stronger occupying power, Israel gets to decide if the conflict is violent or peaceful. Israel a little violent Spartan state decided the conflict will be violent and bloody a long time ago. We were yeoman farmers, minding our own business before Israel came along.
At the core of everything I say is "It's the occupation 'brilliant'." Israel is failing in its occupation, its failing in its "genocide." Israel just succeeds at failure.
@tzatz:disqus@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
Yes I saw the report in Jerusalem Post. Its like "terrorism." and asymmetrical warfare. Hamas doesn't have access to to the concentrated media, so they have to amplify their own humble media wing.
I don't know anything about the keys not working. When your captives are being bombed maybe these things get lost in the chaos.
These are despicable human beings who know no limit to their depravity.
Seriously? Israelis were glued to their TV's thanks to aljazeera that they shut down in Israel. The world actually saw the dignity the Palestinian resistance give to the dead of the enemy. Miles away from what Israel does.
Remember Shireen Abu Akleh
Don’t worry. As they say in Israel: “we will not forget and we will not forgive”.
Where did I hear that before? O yeah those childish shirts the Palestinian prisoners were made to wear which they later burned.
@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
Oh and by the way Hamas did put out a statement saying they took humane care of the bodies and rightfully blasted Israel for killing them in the first place. I think the world tends to believe Hamas more than Netanyahu and comapny.
The other day, I watched a clip of Finkelstein. And he made an important observation. The Israelis are more deranged and sadistic than even the Nazis. They delight in the cruelty, they post the evil deeds and mockery on social media and most of the culture cheers.
The Nazis tried to keep the death machine quiet. If you wanted to know, you did. But the horrors were not done with the same cheerleading fanfare. (I am paraphrasing).
The Israelis are deranged psychopathic lunatics (my words). Not all, but the prevailing culture.
It is deep mental illness to support the rape of prisoners, shackled and defenseless, by guards. People who have not committed crimes aside from being Palestinians. Toddlers and children being shot in the head by snipers. It’s all wrong and medieval. It’s a strike to any advancement of civilization.
Thanks for the disclaimer at the end. Do you see how previous to Oct. 7 Israel had a monopoly on suffering, the Shoah was supposed to be the worst thing that ever happened in history, certainly modern history. However, Israel's actions shows that man's inhumanity to man is a human "condition." With all the Israelis have done to Palestinians, we as Muslims don't view them as extraterrestrial evil, etc. They are merely depraved human beings. We treat them as our religion teaches. History has seen the likes of them and the future will see others regardless of their race, religion or creed. Islam serves to tame the human soul
I’m not religious, but forgiveness only happens after the assault or wrong has ended.
Delusional … but at least everyone knows
Can you do 15 minutes of standup?
Welcome @tzatz:disqus. Is that an invitation? Where would you like me to do the 15 minutes of stand up?
@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
These are despicable human beings who know no limit to their depravity.
Talk about the fucking pot calling the kettle black. Man, you really are a piece of work. Now, let's talk about the dead children under the rubble or those whose corpses have been devoured by wild dogs.
At least the dogs aren’t starving … eh?
Neither are the gazans from the looks of it … eh?
BTW … Is the famine over?
Yes, troll, the dogs are well fed. Nice humor. I take it you're a citizen of Israel. You sure sound like one anyway.
Did you see those 3 Israelis released a while back? Quite different from other hostages that were released. You don't think there are literally thousands of Palestinians that look the same or are already dead? Or are you one of those brilliant fucks who sees a gathering of people who aren't starving and thinks that must mean NO ONE is starving.
Starvation / Famine / Disease / Genocide
ALL lies … of the Hamas propaganda machine
The TRUTH is Hamas will be destroyed before the War is over …
Count on it !
Right, and those 80,000 tons of bombs dropped, and the aid being cut by 80% (on a population already food insecure before the slaughter) was just a figment of my imagination.
Yes …
Gaza had ‘high end’ Malls / ‘high end’ restaurants / ‘high end’ beachside condos
The Hamas terrorists did not lack for weapons … nor did the population lack for food
YOU’VE been hustled … mark!
Right. It was a resort even before Trump wanted to make it a resort. And when Israel "mowed the grass" every couple of years, they avoided all those luxurious areas.
Not enough food? I must be lying, right?
In early 2006, Dov Weisglass, then a senior advisor to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, explained that Israeli policy was designed “to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger.” In 2012 it was revealed that in early 2008 Israeli authorities drew up a document calculating the minimum caloric intake necessary for Palestinians to avoid malnutrition so Israel could limit the amount of foodstuffs allowed into Gaza without causing outright starvation.
Yeah all of it happened but ultimately the Israeli plan failed. When it was going on Israel denied it. When it failed it said it wasn't true. Usually genociders conceal their intent. Israel didn't.
And you say Hamas will be destroyed. I encourage you to go apply for an advisory position to Netanyahu. He needs your brilliant analysis because multiple high-ranking Israeli military and intelligence officials have informed Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that Hamas cannot be completely defeated or dislodged through military means. In fact outgoing Israeli Secretary of State Tony "Bloody" Blinken said Hamas has nearly replenished all of its fighting force.
Israeli Military Intelligence Division (Aman):
Assessment: In February 2024, Aman concluded that the Israeli army would not be able to completely dismantle Hamas and that achieving this goal is not realistic in the foreseeable future.
Source: The Times of Israel
Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari, IDF Spokesperson:
Statement: In June 2024, Hagari stated, "The idea that we can destroy Hamas or make Hamas disappear is misleading to the public."
Source: The Wall Street Journal
Tzachi Hanegbi, National Security Adviser:
Comment: Also in June 2024, Hanegbi expressed skepticism about eliminating Hamas, stating, "Hamas is an organization that cannot be eradicated."
Source: Haretz
@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
And you are one sick puppy
@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
Clearly you have nothing except childish insults to back your support for Hamas. Sad.
You are quite perceptive @disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus (Just out of curiosity. Are you the brightest among your family members?)
When you and your buddies act up like children, its only appropriate to treat them that way. Actually I am not being fair to the children because when they act up and get slapped on the wrist, they get it and then they go off and play. You guys just won't get it.
@tzatz:disqus@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@ashrafnubani:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
Now that’s funny
Welcome @tzatz:disqus I am glad you are amused. It looks like you are one of those oldies who does one-liners in support of the Zionist cause, but nothing else. Welcome.
@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
The "good actor" wants to share credit for the pogrom with the cowardly Israeli retreat, the ensuing chaos, the Hannibal Directive and the utter failure of the Israeli security apparatus that led to the death of so many soldiers and settlers. And someone had a good point about the rave festival which was mostly Israeli reservists and again because of Israel's failure to protect, stumbled on it. Does Israel have any queries about killing an unarmed Hamas fighter sitting at the dinner table with his family?
That a fucking lie. There weren't 1500 civilians killed, and you know it. And considering the number of security personal present, whether on duty or not, that made the Hamas attack completely legitimate. At least based on Israel's rules of engagement. And if the "good guys" can kill 300 civilians to get one Hamas battalion commander, then Hamas should be able to do the same.
It’s an existential war … it won’t end in a ceasefire or peace
Whether true or not it doesn't have a damn thing to do with what my comment was about.
Your LIES are a justification for a ‘War Atrocity’ / a ‘War Crime ‘
Denial and obfuscation is all you got
YOUR hatred of the Jews / Zionists / Israelis is based on your own ignorance … eh?
I don’t care why … eh?
I based my comment on what the Israeli newspapers reported.
From Haaretz:
Partial data by Hebrew media covering the civilians — killed by thousands of invading terrorists and by some of the thousands of rockets fired that day at Israeli cities — reveals that they include two infants, 12 other children under the age of 10, 36 civilians aged 10-19, and 25 elderly people over the age of 80, accounting for 75 of the 764 civilians.
There weren't 1,500 civilians killed. That is a bald-faced lie. And that is what I responded to. But since you know that's the truth, you bring up a bunch of bullshit
Using a partial accounting from a Haaretz article is called … ‘taking information out of context’
BESIDES … Haaretz is an anti-Zionist newspaper
BESIDES … it was Hamas that initiated a cross border jihadi raid intent on killing / destroying / terrorizing Israelis … pretentiously named ‘al Aqsa Flood’ and Hezbollah was supposed to attack from south Lebanon simultaneously and get more support from other Iranian proxies in Syria / Iraq / Yemen / Iran / WB
OOPS … it failed miserably and the IDF has been mopping the floor ever since 10/7/23
It wasn't taken out of context. Proof being you had to badmouth the source, Haaretz. There was approximately 300 military personal (reservists/off duty) on hand.
The rest of your comment is just repetitious hasbara trolling bullshit that you think somehow justifies Israel's blatant brutality. And since there was those 300 military personal present at the music festival, the Hamas attack was justified based on Israel's very own rules of engagement.
Huh?
Hamas crossed into Israel in a surprise jihadi raid … intent on killing / capturing as many Israelis as possible … that’s the ONLY TRUTH
The response to the jihadi RAID was a Declaration of War against Hamas … a War that has not ended until today
It will end when Israel decides to stop … not before
Did I say Hamas DIDN'T cross into Isarael? No, I didn't. What I did say was that based on Israel's rules of engagement, the Hamas attack was justifiable. If Israel can kill with impunity and do so on the basis that they are targeting "terrorists", Hamas can do the same. There is no denying that there were military personal at the music festival whether they were on duty or not. And once more, using Israel's rules of engagement, they were fair game. And if you think Israel didn't provoke the attack, then you weren't paying attention to how Israel has treated the Palestinians in Gaza since Hamas was elected as the Palestinians representative. Here's a description:
There is also the popular trope that Israel benevolently ended its occupation of Gaza in 2005 only to come under repeated attack by Hamas. But while Israel withdrew military forces and settlers from Gaza, it has remained an Occupying Power by virtue of its continued control of the strip. Nothing and nobody go into or out of Gaza without Israel’s permission. Gaza remains, as it was described in 2004 by Head of Israel’s National Security Council Giora Eiland, “a huge concentration camp.”
Nothing goes into or out of Gaza without Israel’s permission? That’s obviously false
Hamas triggered an Israeli military response by committing the jihadi MASSACRE on 10/7/23
There’s nothing left to say … there are plenty of Israelis to quote besides Eiland / Haaretz
If Oct 7th was a MASSACRE then Israel's response, which made that look like child's play, is indeed a genocide/ethnic cleansing/ collective punishment. Take your pick, they're all war crimes.
An why don't you give me some of those quotes. Maybe form Netanyahu or Smotrich. Here's a couple of doozies:
Netanyahu: “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” Netanyahu told a meeting of his Likud party in 2019. “This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”
“Bezalel Smotrich, leader of Israel’s Religious Zionist Party and the current finance minister:The PA is a liability and Hamas is an asset. On the international playing field in this game of delegitimization, think about for a second, the PA is a liability and Hamas is an asset. It’s a terrorist organization. Nobody will recognize it, nobody will give it status at the ICC [International Criminal Court] and nobody will let them push resolutions at the UN [causing us to] need an American veto,” Smotrich said in 2015.
International Law terms are rendered meaningless by islamist / jihadi actions
Use of international law must be restricted to Western liberal democratic countries vs other Western liberal democratic countries
Barbarians must be fought without mercy and ‘extreme prejudice’
Now you're just babbling bullshit. It's like debating with a pigeon.
There’s no debate … there’s just reality
The ‘international system’ was devised without input from muslims … none of whom are liberal or democratic
So … what’s left is crushing them on the battlefield until full surrender
Fahrshteist?
The Rapporteur to the drafting committe of the UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and the first chairperson of the UN Commission for Human Rights, was a Muslim (Charles Malik of Lebanon). Another member of the drafting committee was Jamil Baroody, a Saudi Muslim. Muslim regimes were also involved in the drafting of the Geneva Conventions.
And if you think you’re going to “crush” 2 billion people “on the battlefield,” that thing you’re doing that you think is thinking isn’t.
2 muslims … 👏👏👏
The thing is:
•the Saudi is a laughable excuse to ‘pad’ a committee … a Saudi cannot share values that are Western liberal values
•the chair of UNCHR is exactly the point … sitting as chair of an organization that subverts its name by virtue of ‘having numbers’
The pals are a sick sociopathic society … their dispersal by force or by agreement is looming
They’ll be around long after you’re gone.
non sequitur
Hey … if makes you feel good … belch your bile
More babble.
Deflection … next
Deflection from WHAT? And that's your game. You started with my reply to jake. Or are you jake?
YOU’RE an apologist for the Hamas thugs … full stop
That’s YOUR game …
Bullshit. I'm just comparing them to the real terrorists, and you have no rebuttal other than hasbara talking points.
The ‘real’ terrorists … says everything to me
The REAL TERRORISTS are Hamas and the gazans who are their willing accomplices p
Hamas didn't drop 80,000 tons of bombs on a mostly civilian population packed into 141 square miles. Hamas didn't cut the aid going into Gaza by 80% on a population that was already food secure (no matter how hard you try to deny it). There is NO comparison as to who the real terrorists are.
Hamas is a vile islamist / jihadi arab / muslim terrorist organization that ruled Gaza since 2007 … it pushed the PA out in a coup … it rules as a mafia gang
The death toll in Gaza was LOW in comparison to what any other Military force would have achieved … the destruction was all part of Hamas’s strategy including using booby traps in residential buildings and tunnels everywhere
Gaza is finished as a base for Hamas … that was yesterday and yesterday’s gone
Fahrshteist?
I don't back Hamas. But in comparison to Israel, they are boy scouts. Once more, Israel dropped 80,000 tons of bombs on a mostly civilian population squeezed into 141 square miles. 70% of the buildings were leveled. I don't have to say anymore. Compare that to what damage Israel suffered. You can't because it would be futile. Israel is the real terrorist and has no peers.
War isn’t ‘proportional’ … LMAO
1200 dead Israelis MASSACRED in medieval barbaric methods … was the trigger + hundreds of IDF Soldiers killed
Gaza is a cesspool of islamists who support Hamas … their fate was sealed when Hamas & willing gazans stormed into Israel
Israel is not turning the ‘other cheek’ … only VIGILANCE and military might keeps the enemy
at bay
What Hamas did in Israel pales in comparison to what Israel has done in Gaza. The numbers don't lie. You can ignore them, but they won't go away. Terrorism is terrorism. And, once more, Israel has no peers.
You’re averting your eyes from the barbaric assault on babies / children / elderly / women raped & mutilated / men killed & tortured … in an orgy of medieval-style MURDER
The issue is way beyond WAR … this is DEPRAVITY … the jihadis / islamists have no humanity … ‘jihad for the sake of allah’ gives these louts their power to kill
Never forget / Never Forgive
I’m not diverting my eyes from anything. Depravity speaking, Israel has dwarfed what Hamas has done. The numbers don’t lie. Your problem is you think I’m defending Hamas, when all I’m doing is comparing them to Israel. And Israel doesn’t look good in comparison. So, you can keep bringing up atrocities that both sides do in any war and that won’t change the fact that Israel has done them at an astounding level that pales anything Hamas could even hope to do. There really is no denying that. Again, the numbers don’t lie.
Using your mistaken belief in the term ‘proportionality’ when applied to war is ONE of your issues
Right. When you are the king of terrorists backed by a superpower, you don’t have to concern yourself with proportionality. /s
The term does NOT mean the same in terms of the laws of war … John Spencer teaches that in his classes at the War College
Sucks to be on the other side …
Bullshit. When you're 'rules of engagement' include killing 300 civilians in order to kill one Hamas commander, you are crossing the line into terrorism. When you have open fire zones where you kill anything that moves, that's terrorism. And if "the other side" did it, you'd be creaming TERRORISM. Right after claiming it was another HOLOCAUST.
YOU have not been in a war or studied the laws of war
John Spencer has …
War sucks … but the MASSACRE on 10/7/23 by Hamas targeting babies / children / elderly / women raped & mutilated / men killed & tortured brought War on Gaza
NEVER FORGET / NEVER FORGIVE
I don't have to have been in a war to know what terrorism looks like. And no matter how many times you repeat what Hamas did, it won't change the fact that what Israel did in response was literally thousands upon thousands of times worse. Nothing Hamas did, or even was capable of doing, comes close to being comparable to what Israel did. Nothing. And since Hamas is on the designated terrorist list of the US state department, Israel's actions should land them on that same list. But at the very TOP.
Nah, he’s just noting that Israel acts exactly the same way, only on a larger scale.
Nah …
Israel is a sovereign state that was attacked in a vile jihadi raid meant to terrorize Israeli civilians
Except that those principles of “international law” are supposedly the bedrock OF “western liberal democracy” in the context of the existence of the Westphalian Model nation state. If one goes, so does the other.
YOU just said it yourself … the arabs / muslims didn’t have a role EXCEPT as an exception
Ottomans didn’t care about the ‘model’
Those liberal democracies abutting muslim states MUST DEAL DIFFERENTLY with muslim majority countries … eh?
There are ALWAYS exceptions to models / rules
They had a prominent role.
Not as prominent as the major powers that came out on top in World War 2, but that was by design. It wasn’t just non-westerners who got less say. If you weren’t American, Soviet, British, French or Chinese (and even that last group got pushed out a little), you were at the kids’ table.
It was October 7. And it is chock full of lies, each one there to "justify" the destruction and slaughter by Israel since then. America is once again being played like a fiddle by the war criminals in DC/Tel Aviv! Plus, it is NOT a "pogrom" when you are trying to get hostages to get prisoners released that have been extrajudicially kidnapped by Israel. The "pogrom" is what Israel has done since O7, to the tee!
Really what Israel has done since 1948. Killings and expanding territory little by little ever since for "Greater Israel" And they are almost there, all the need now is destroy Iran. The other 6 Arab nations have already been rendered useless wit US help.
It was all outlaid in the Nineties as prof Sachs explains so well.
your entire comment is jihadi / islamist propaganda
Total bs
You exist as a Jew Hater … your entire comment is jihadi / islamist propaganda
@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus "you exist as …" is a subtle way of saying you shouldn't exist. I don't like this person very much.
Utter nonsense. Hamas kidnapped a 9 month old child, who was alive when he was brought into Gaza. How in an sketch of the imagination can you justify such actions as "good actors"? Kidnapping a baby, resulting in his death, is the ultimate act of barbarity.
As for Egypt, it is well-known that they are at war with the Muslim Brotherhood, which Hamas is part of. The Nazi-trained and inspired Muslim Brotherhood seeks the destruction of the Egyptian government, which is why Egypt doesn't support them or allow crossings to open with Egypt.
The basic issue – which you ignore – is that Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of not just infants and toddlers, but the entire nation of Israel. Until they drop their goal of exterminating all Israelis, why would Israel stop fighting them? Israelis want to live.
I suggest you read my other comments here and elsewhere. We went over this numerous times. The taking of the elderly, women and children was a result of Israeli cowardice and failure to protect.
You call Israel good but it kills, and kills, and kills….. Anyway that's all irrelevant since it was Israeli bombs that killed the captives, not Hamas.
Gaza is not MB, Palestinians are not MB. The Egyptian government is not only hostile to Palestinians, it is at war with its own people.
Stop lying about Hamas. Neither Hamas nor Palestinians want to kill anyone, much less children. (That seems to be a direct trait of Israel and the sick Israeli public that either supports it or ignores it). The only reason resistance exists is because European yehud along with western colonialism decided to remove and take the place of the indigenous population by force and killing them. Yes Hamas wants to destroy the state of Israel. The world wants to see the Zionist entity disappear. The Israelis get to decide how the dismantling will take place, peacefully or otherwise.
Why shouldn't Palestinians and Israelis live? The problem is Israelis have been living at the expense of the Palestinians.
@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
1. "Read comments" isn't a convincing argument. It's meaningless.
2. No, abducting the elderly and babies is not "Israeli cowardice". If that is your moral position, then you've already lost. Who kidnaps and kills a 9-month old, then holds his corpse as random? Only the most grotesque, depraved individuals. And now you try to shift the blame – which has disgusted the entire civilized world – and say it is somehow Israel's fault. You truly are shameless.
2. I never said Israel was good or justified the killing of civilians. War is a terrible thing, which is why you should avoid it if possible.
Hamas had the chance to invest billions of dollar in the people of Gaza; instead, to chose to invest in the killing of Israelis, which triggered a war. Hamas didn't surrender and renounce violence, which would have ended the war. They didn't change their charter or make a peace deal, like the PLO. In fact, their charter states they will never agree to peace.
3. The claim that it was Israeli bombs that killed the captives is unproven; however, it is irrelevant, as the two toddlers wouldn't be in Gaza if not brutally abducted by Hamas.
4. Gaza is controlled by Hamas, which is part of the Nazi-trained Muslim Brotherhood. This is a well-known fact.
5. Lying? Show a lie or apologize for a false statement.
6. Some Palestinians seek peace, some do not. The Israeli Arabs are living peacefully in Israel; they actually enjoy more freedoms than in any Arab country. The Palestinians in the West Bank have reached a peace agreement with Israel; and the Palestinians in Jordan are peaceful. However, we have only to read the charter of Hamas to see that they are dedicated to one purpose: the destruction of Israel – "every inch". We see the attack of Oct 7 and subsequent events. So, your statement is false, that "Hamas does not want to kill anyone". They wanted to kill 1,200 Israelis on Oct. 7, and would have killed many more if they could.
7. Claims of "colonialism" are inaccurate, as Jews were the indigenous people, not Arabs. You can't colonize your own land.
Was Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat an "indigenous person"? Maybe you think so; but he was born in Egypt to an Egyptian family; he served in the Egyptian army and even spoke Arabic with an Egyptian accent (how embarrassing). Yet, you would tell me he has a right to control Jerusalem, which (according to the Ottoman census) had a Jewish majority since the 1860s…
8. No, "the world" does not oppose Israel; in fact, no one supported Hamas after their attack on Israel. Even the Arab nations stayed out of it, and do not want Palestinian terrorists in their country – especially Egypt and Jordan. Jordan was almost destroyed when they allowed large numbers of Palestinians in; not by Israel, but by the same hateful, violent people you defend when they kidnap babies from their cribs and murder them.
Sick.
@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus you are getting better at lumping Zionist propaganda all in one go after it has all been responded to and dismantled.
So how about we have a dialogue on Zoom for say one hour on a proposition we coordinate on. We will invite everyone here and others. 10 min opening statements each, 2 rounds of 5 minute rebuttals each, 10 mins of questioning each other (30 second questions 2-3 min answers). 10 min of audience questions and 5 min closing statements. And if you prefer you can call on anyone else to take your place.
What say you?
@tzatz:disqus@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
I present facts, you present nothing but your opinions, which are never based on a single verifiable fact or source.
However, rather than refuting my facts, you call them "propaganda", and merely hand-wave.
There is no point in repeating this same behavior online. I will present verifiable facts, you will present none, just opinions based on nothing substantial.
So, if you can demonstrate some actual debating skills, then there is a basis for a debate, but so far, that is not the case. Simply listening to your opinions is a waste of time, especially as you responses lack any credibility.
As I expected. "Bawk bawk Bawk"
@tzatz:disqus@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
On Judge Nap today Jeffrey Sachs said Trump must prove that Net is not “playing him like a fiddle” (Trump had used this image for Zelensky playing Biden) and must refuse Zionist plans to eradicate Hamas etc. If not, he will entirely capsize his administration and his ambition to be the world's greatest negotiator. Despite delivery of all the MOABs Sachs seems optimistic Trump will not oblige Netanyahu. And pigs fly in your dreams, Mr. Sachs.
I will try to watch but you know it could be psychological ops on Trump. You know, tell the bully your a wimp against Netanyahu so he goes out of his way to show he's not being played like a fiddle. There's no doubt that at the end of the day those bombs are meant for the Muslims of the region but Trump can't afford a war that gets out of hand in the Middle East right now. Does anyone think the Arab and Muslim peoples in the Middle East are sitting around twiddling their thumbs? Everyone is preparing for the next round, and Israel didn't do so well last time around.
Everyone lost;the next round will se a few nukes go off
Yep, history repeating itself. Like Masada, an Israeli nuke will only lead to suicide for Israel. Think about it. They drop a bomb and (Let's say a few bombs, one on Iran, one on Gaza, one on Syria, one on Turkey for good measure) hundreds of millions killed. The Muslim population is nearly two billion and growing. Masada was heroized by Josephus but like the Roman soldiers cleaning up afterwards, we in the rest of the civilized will marvel at the sadistic/ masochist nature of this Zionist entity.
Delusional. You support Hamas – so, don't claim you are part of the "civilized world". You're not.
We teach life, Sir!
You support the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas, which were trained and inspired by the opposite of life, the German government of Adolf Hitler. As such, you have no idea what life is.
We teach life.
I have a better idea. Don't drop nukes. What if one happens to go off prematurely?
Try looking inward, fix what's wrong and share with your buddies.
Don't be so quick to brush it aside. Trump hates to be ridiculed or being taken advantage of, and may just do a 180, as he has done so often about other things.
Watched a religious channel last night (try to get all around news from all over) where some MAGA big wig – sorry can't remember his name but they showed his books written and his organization) was concerned about Trump making mistakes with the cease fire in the first place and now being skittish about attacking Iran.
It will all depend now where Trump finds the greater brownie and boasting points for himself.
"It will all depend now where Trump finds the greater brownie and boasting points for himself."
This is THE problem with Trump.
Trump was right about the "dictator" Zelensky. How can he be so wrong about another "dictator" mass murdering innocent people right before our/his eyes? He will never take the "final step" until he stands up to Nutty yahoo and Israel and says, "NO MORE!"!
He’s already walked back the ‘dictator’ Zelensky bs … Netanyahu is the democratically elected PM of Israel
What YOU want Trump to do is NOT going to happen … full stop
YOU’RE an anti-Zionist without ANY qualms about being anti-jihadi / anti-islamist … making you a boring anti-Judaism HATER
And thus @disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus you are sub human and deserve to be exterminated with the people of Gaza.
@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
Both presidents (Biden and Trump) support Israel because it is a US ally. The only requirement of a US ally is that it supports US interests, which Israel does in the Middle East.
Hamas is not a US ally and they oppose US interests. Many groups related to Hamas actively supported US enemies, even during war. The Muslim Brotherhood supported the German government during WWII, as did the Grand Mufti, a Palestinian leader. Yasser Arafat supported the USSR in the Cold War, and many Palestinians rooted for Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War.
So, if people support US enemies, why would the US care about their fate?
Why shouldn't Israel eradicate Hamas?
Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. Israel is a US ally that provides advanced military technology; Hamas is a designated terror group that staged a coup and illegally occupies Gaza, and Hamas murders and kidnaps American citizens.
Hamas is part of the Muslim Brotherhood, which was supported and trained by the Nazi government of Germany in the 1930s/40s. Hamas even has Nazi-supported documents in their charter. There is a direct line from the hatred of the Nazis to the hatred of Hamas.
Israel made the mistake of tolerating Hamas. They left Gaza, did nothing when Hamas staged a violent coup taking over Gaza, and allowed billions of dollars of aid to reach Gaza. Hamas took that aid and used it for tunnels, guns, ammunition, bombs, military computers, etc. – so they could slaughter as many Israeli men, women, children, and babies as possible.
So, the time for compromise is over. Hamas will be liquidated – to the last man. That's it.
Exactly … 👏👏👏
Oh no @disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus where did you pick up @tzatz:disqus?
“Reputation, reputation, reputation! O, I have lost my reputation! I have lost the immortal part of myself, and what remains is bestial.”
Shakespeare (Othello, Act 2, Scene 1)
This line reflects how, when people feel weak or exposed, they desperately cling to alliances to preserve themselves.
@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus @
It's very simple why Hamas is being absurd.
1. Hamas is dedicated to Israel's destruction. That is in their charter, and was demonstrated on 10/7.
2. Hamas conducted a war crime, stealing people and holding them hostage under barbaric conditions, where many have already died. No Red Cross visits or other civilized contact.
3. Hamas offers to return the human beings they kidnapped, if Israel allows Hamas – the organization dedicated to their destruction – to remain in power.
4. It makes no sense to make peace with an organization whose aim is to destroy you.
5. So, either Hamas surrenders, or the war continues, except this time, with full, unrestrained US support. Trump would be happy to see Hamas quickly liquidated and the Palestinians re-located.
Exactly … 👏👏👏
1. Yes all options are on the table.
2. Yes, however, reasonable jurists can conclude it was done in self defense.
3. It's worked so far. As long as there is an occupation Hamas will continue to exists no matter what Israel does.
4. Negotiations are had with enemies. Israel claims it doesn't negotiate with terrorists but has negotiated over, and over and over again…
5. Yes, let's see what happens. Last time the Houthis were the wild card surprise. Let's see who joins the fray the next time around.
@tzatz:disqus@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
1. False. Only one option is "on the table": this is clear from the charter and actions of Hamas. The only goal is the complete destruction of Israel. Hamas – and you – continue the war against Israel that started in 1947. Like those fighting the Crusaders, you hope that the Westerners will eventually grow weak and go away. That won't happen, so there is only continued war.
2. False. No one – anywhere – has justified atrocities as "reasonable". This position only brings shame and disgrace to those who believe it.
3. Hamas is the only group that is occupying Gaza. They were not elected and they grabbed Gaza in a violent coup. They have no legitimacy, even among most Palestinians.
4. What's your point?
5. No, there are no "surprises". Israel now have the full support of the US, and after a break, they will clear out Gaza. Trump and Netanyahu both are tired to giving Hamas a chance; regardless of how many chaotic parades they have, they have no future.
The Muslim Brotherhood – the parent organization of Hamas – got their start with support and inspiration from the Nazi government of Germany. The MB translated Hitler's "Mein Kampf" into Arabic and distributed it throughout the Arab world. Like their teachers, the MB and Hamas will fail in the long-term.
1. Have you heard of the "hudna"?
2. Explained in a way you can understand. A PROFESSIONAL fight takes place (Imagine the venue is the international community). The fight is between a professional 200 pound boxer (Israel in this case) and a skinny 14 year old kid weighing 100 pounds (the Palestinians in this case). The promotors, the officials and the judges let the fight go one (Imagine that's the US, the UN and other nations). In the first three rounds the professional boxer toys with and pulverizes the boy, but beaten badly and bleeding he makes it to the fourth round. In the fourth round the 14 year old takes out a pocket knife from his shoe and slashes the boxer's thigh with it. He severs an artery and the boxer becomes enraged swinging wildly in the air looking to kill the 14 year old. (and by the way he cries "bloody murder," "genocide," "terrorism," you name it). At this point the referee (imagine that's the world's conscience) stops the fight. The Judges (the US) call the fight and disqualify the 14 year old for breaking the rules (after all how dare he break the rules (rules based order) by using a knife to protect himself against the 200 pound boxer (i.e., Oct. 7th))?
3. Hamas won legislative elections. Fatah/PA would not handover the government in Gaza and detained some Hamas members. Hamas went to the Preventive Security building just to teach them a lesson. They fell like a house of cards and Hamas took what was rightfully theirs in fair and free elections. Yes they govern a brutally blockaded, open air prison which is very difficult on the people, however, the people know who is blockading them, mowing the grass with them and withholding food, water, electricity, fuel, etc. Actually Hamas is more popular now than it has been since its existence.
4. Despite the conflicting narratives of the Parties ALL Palestinians have been willing to accept a two state solution, including Hamas. The deranged Zios keep saying its to buy time to destroy Israel. There is no such thing as guaranteeing a "forever solution." The Palestinians would guarantee a generational cessation of violence. What future Israelis and Palestinians do once we are gone is not in our control. Palestinians have been willing to give up 78% of what is historically their right, but Israel who steals more and more all the time was never ready (and is not ready to give up one inch for a state to the Palestinians). Thus the blood shed that Israel continues to engage in in ever growing savagery and pace.
5. LOL. The cowardly, bully child hiding behind his mother's skirt. Like at Masada, Israel is doomed. The use of nuclear weapons is suicide for Israel. They are outnumbered, the morale of the Arab youth is way beyond those tik tok army dual passport carrying European yehud.
Before you clear out Gaza don't forget to get your captives.
@tzatz:disqus@disqus_ohiofcav3e:disqus@siu1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5vtdhrdjht:disqus@ashrafnubani:disqus@disqus_kafpepsmys:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_dw0pwv6cnf:disqus@disqus_yqfz1jqkbt:disqus
“Hamas won legislative elections.”
In 2006.
And has refused to hold elections ever since.
Nor exactly. You know the situation of the Gaza Strip and the blockade. Hamas has repeatedly tried to reconcile with Fatah to reform the PLO, enter in to a unified national front and hold elections. However, this is an impossibility for at least two main reasons.
1) the PA, established under the Oslo Accords, is deeply tied to the U.S. and Israel for its financial and security survival. Its security forces coordinate with Israel under the framework of "security cooperation," the PA serves to manage the occupation rather than resist it.
2) Egypt, Jordan and the other Gulf countries treat Hamas as a security threat. They all want to see Hamas destroyed. They have never been sincere in hosting sincere mediation.
Hamas has repeatedly been willing to enter in to agreements that would lead to a national unified front, however, Fatah always reneges or is forced to pull out due to pressure from their financial masters, the US, Israel and the sellout Arab regimes.
Below are most of these attempts.
Cairo Declaration (2005):
Prisoners' Document (2006):
Mecca Agreement (2007):
Sana'a Declaration (2008):
Cairo Agreement (2011):
Doha Agreement (2012):
Gaza and Cairo Agreements (2014):
Cairo Agreement (2017):
Fatah-Hamas-PIJ Agreement (2020):
Algiers Agreement (2022):
Beijing Declaration (2024):
Every time elections are attempted Fatah renegs like they did in 2021 using Israel's prevention of Jerusalimites taking part in the elections as an excuse. When they see hamas is lower in polls they call for elections when Hamas rises in the polls they scrap elections.
Its kind of difficult to hold elections with the occupier on your neck and your partner is a traitor for the occupation.
On this score Hamas has shown that it is not just looking for power. It is a resistance movement with a mandate to resist the occupation and establish a state. By default, its capitalization of the armed resistance insures its post liberation rule. Therefore, it doesn't need to impose itself on the Palestinian people.
Finally, as a resistance movement, Hamas cannot afford security breaches, which is why they have, at times, cracked down on dissent within the Gaza Strip. Israel and Fatah have attempted to undermine Hamas through infiltration and covert operations. In response, Hamas has imposed strict security measures to maintain control. These precautions, while controversial, ultimately played a role in enabling the group to plan and execute the October 7th attack.
Islamist / Jihadi obfuscation …
Have you heard of LOSING? Cuz that’s what the arabs / muslims have been doing for over 100 years
In this context its merely a state of mind. No matter how weak the Muslims are, they are winning. A hundred years ago they were approximately 180 million and roughly let's say 10-12 percent of the world's population. Today they are nearly two billion and 24 percent of the world's population. Their book has been preserved, their language has been preserved, their lands are contiguous, their natural resources are plentiful, when fair and free elections are held Islamic movements win or do well.
What I know is that a nuclear armed Israel was forced into a ceasefire by a ragtag army of besieged Palestinians who ran up to tanks with EID's, stormed Israeli positions barefooted and took their weapons. I saw and heard Israeli Knesset members cry like little babies out of despair. Don't quote me. Israeli politicians said its been a humiliating defeat.
@knappster:disqus@tzatz:disqus@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
Global Warming won’t be kind to the arabs / muslims …
Food insecurity / climate change / a new plague / wars (internecine wars) are ALL coming fast and furious
The thought that ‘liberal democracy’ will continue unchanged as demographic changes take place … is silly
‘Things are gonna slide in all directions
Won’t be nothing you can measure anymore’
Ch-ch—change is inevitable
Israel, US and the West will not be immune. Events that are caused by man's decisions can be reformed. Things that are not in our hands, like natural disasters don't cause us despair.
Cool …
What you describe is a mass delusion, and a recipe for continued decline.
Yes, the remnants of failed empires can inflict pain and suffering on women and children, but other than that, you are falling further and further behind the rest of the world (the EU, China, India, etc.).
Show me the scientists, the discoveries, the diseases cured, the contributions to human progress. Not in the 10th century, but today. How many have won the Nobel Prize, or contributed anything useful to the human race?
So, you can attack the US, Israel, Germany, and other countries and murder innocent women, children, and babies, but that is just a sign of weakness, not strength.
Here we go again. Your racism is so glaring. As of February 2025, out of over 950 Nobel Prize recipients, 17 have been Black, representing approximately 1.8% of all laureates. These awards have been in the categories of Peace, Literature, and Economics. Notably, no Black individuals have received Nobel Prizes in the scientific fields of Physics, Chemistry, or Physiology or Medicine.
Take a shot at this one you racially biased individual. Once you have answered that, I will show you the scientists, discoveries etc.
@knappster:disqus@tzatz:disqus@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
Again, you have nothing except personal slurs.
No, it's not "racism" to state the facts. The Nobel Prize simply is a metric showing that the Arab world is falling behind.
When you look at the remarkable discoveries in optics, physics, math, etc. – they all occurred 500-1,000 years ago.
Look at Hamas as an example. They were getting (and Israel was allowing) billions of dollars of aid to reach them. Instead of investing in education, and discovering new medicines or building computers, they put their money toward war, revenge, and violence. Well, you can blame Israel and talk about "colonialism" or whatever, but the successive people are now living in rubble – something that could have been avoided by simply not attacking their neighbor. Even North Korea is capable to avoiding war.
@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus I still can't figure out if your ego and your worldview have been so thoroughly decimated and you just can't bring yourself to admit your wrong (some book described some people as "stiff necked") or perhaps your mother dropped you on your head when you were a baby (and in that case it's not all your fault).
Regardless, this is for the rest of humanity.
The Nobel Prize is a narrow metric of advancements in various disciplines developed by the West for the West on the backs of humanity, it has nothing to do with whether religions and peoples are intelligent, violent, progressive, bad, good etc.
And you never answered why blacks don't do so well? Are they backwards too?
So that's all nonsense.
What you are pathetically insinuating is that the West, liberalism, Democracy, Secularism and the "tribe" are enlightened, progressive, masters of the world. And Muslim/Arabs are violent, backward and anti human.
Again, I challenge you to a debate. Let's do it on this topic:
"Western Liberalism vs. Islam: Which Provides a Better Foundation for Human Dignity, Happiness, and Progress?"
If you are able to debate intelligently, I will commit to not engaging in any ad hominem attacks. @knappster:disqus can moderate if you accept and he agrees.
What say you?
@knappster:disqus@tzatz:disqus@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus
My role as “moderator” is to delete guidelines-violating content, not to referee debates as such. I also have a strong opinion on the subject that wouldn’t lend itself to neutrality.
Lol. Oh, I don't know? I think you'd make a great moderator. As far as I know you're not A zionist or a Muslim. You critique both all the time. And you're expected to keep time and give equal time. Just because Israel is a product of secular western liberalism, I'm not going to hold it against you.
LOL. Oh, I don't know about that? I think you'd make a great moderator. As far as I know you're not a zionist or A Muslim. That Israel is a product of secular western liberalism wouldn't be held against you. All you have to do is keep time and equal time at that.
I’m not a Zionist.
Vis a vis formal affiliation, I’m a member of a Pauline “Christian” church, but not one that’s all pro-Israel all the time (we’ve had Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. guest speakers and are an “all are welcome” kind of congregation).
Vis a vis specific religious belief, I’m somewhere between Unitarian Universalism and Universal Sufism. With respect to the latter, I suspect many Muslims would consider it guilty of bid’ah.
Lol, regardless you seem to be a straight shooter. As a Christian you are a person of the book (a term of endearment) and your a brother in humanity.
Thanks. I’m all about the brother in humanity concept. But I still won’t moderate a formal debate. If you guys want to have one, and want a moderator, and want to do it here, I suggest picking someone less strongly opinionated, probably from outside this forum, to come in and moderate it. I’ll just interrupt with comments 😀
That I am sure you will do. What say you @disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus?
We choose a topic, decide on a format and agree on the medium. Do you want Zionism, MB, Hamas, 1948, biblical claims, Israel a strategic asset, or a strategic liability, Western Liberalism v. Islam…. ?
One hour: 10 min opening statements, two 5 min rebuttals each, 2-3 questions of each other (10 Mins), 5 mins of questions from audience and 2 min closing remarks each.
Arguments will require a cite to primary and secondary sources.
What say you, Alexander? And if you have a replacement that's fine, or if you want a co debater (you share the same time of course) I will accept that too.
What say you?
I’m not a Zionist.
Vis a vis formal affiliation, I’m a member of a Pauline “Christian” church, but not one that’s all pro-Israel all the time (we’ve had Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. guest speakers and are an “all are welcome” kind of congregation).
Vis a vis specific religious belief, I’m somewhere between Unitarian Universalism and Universal Sufism. With respect to the latter, I suspect many Muslims would consider it guilty of bid’ah.
I’m not a Zionist.
Vis a vis formal affiliation, I’m a member of a Pauline “Christian” church, but not one that’s all pro-Israel all the time (we’ve had Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. guest speakers and are an “all are welcome” kind of congregation).
Vis a vis specific religious belief, I’m somewhere between Unitarian Universalism and Universal Sufism. With respect to the latter, I suspect many Muslims would consider it guilty of bid’ah.
Exactly … nubani is a racist muslim
It is a mentality mired in a long-dead past. We see this in Hamas. They could have used their billions of dollars of resources to build a prosperous society for the people of Gaza, but instead diverted their money to fantasies of violence, war, and revenge.
Hamas seems pleased with their attack on Israel, but is Gaza a better place now than on Oct. 6?
But clearly Hamas (and supporters of their illegal, criminal occupation of Gaza, like this fellow) haven't learned a thing.
Bravo … 👏👏👏
Hamas is dedicated to one primary goal: the destruction of Israel.
They also state – in their charter – that peace is impossible, and negotiations are foolish.
So, a "permanent ceasefire" is, by definition, impossible, and it would be entirely to the advantage of Hamas. It just means letting the group that wants to destroy Israel have more time to destroy Israel. Why would any country agree to that?
The charter has been updated. Because that cuntry will have no choice.
The changes were mostly cosmetic and they did not recognize the right of Israel to exist. As we saw on Oct. 7,
And while the revision said that Hamas would respect the 1967 borders, this was just another lie; firing missiles into a country and crossing their border to slaughter their children is not respecting national boundaries. Even North Korea doesn't cross their border with South Korea.
So, clearly you want to talk away the reality of Hamas, so that they can destroy Israel, your goal. You might as well be honest; Hamas (and you) aren't fooling anyone.
The 1967 ceasefire lines are not borders. The borders of Israel and Palestine are set in UNR 181, which was passed in 1947. They have not since changed.
UNR 181 was a plan that was rejected by many of the parties involved and it is not the issue, which is what Hamas says in its defining charter.
Regimes are free to make any arrangements they want, even without the blessing of 34 mostly European countries that voted for UNR 181 in 1947 – which included no Muslim-majority nations. Also, many of those that voted no longer exist, including the USSR, the Byelorussian SSR, the Ukraine SSR, and Czechoslovakia.
Israel accepted the borders in UNR 181 as a condition of UN membership and has never re-negotiated those borders. Occupied territory outside the UNR 181 borders is just that — occupied territory outside of Israel.
Yes, I understand that you and about two-three other people actually believe that. But the issue was the future of the War in Gaza, and Hamas said they will "tolerate" 1967 borders, not UNR 181 borders, and they claim that is a concession, although their actions suggest they will not respect even UNR 181 borders. The Palestinians also reject UNR 181 in terms of Jerusalem, which they claim is Palestinian territory.
By the way, UNR 181 does not refer to Palestinians anywhere; it only refers to "Arabs".
There are no “1967 borders.” There are just 1967 ceasefire lines. The borders of Israel and Palestine were set in UNR 181 and have never since changed, full stop.
UNR 181 was a plan that was never implemented, and General Assembly Resolutions are not binding; there is no obligation for member states to follow them (unlike those of the Security Council).
The UN isn't a world government; they are a debate society created by the United States to further the goals of American imperialism. Clearly, Israel does not follow the suggestions of the UN, including the return of refugees and the status of Jerusalem as a corpus separatum.
The idea of the UN running Jerusalem is absurd, as its main talents are in the areas of corruption and the sexual abuse of females.
If the UNR 181 plan was never implemented, Israel is not a UN member state. But every time I look at the General Assembly, Netanyahu seems to be ranting at it with cartoon pictures of bombs, etc.
Pick one: Israel’s borders were set by UNR 181 and Israel accepted those borders as a condition of UN membership; or
2) It’s not a UN member state. It’s just a little rogue statelet hanging off a real state’s teat — to the US as Abhkazia is to Russia.
1. UNR 181 was never implemented. That's a simple fact; the plan was rejected, so it's not a question of my opinion.
According to the UN, "There was not, however, compliance with the provisions of the Partition Resolution. The territorial boundaries were determined de facto by the outcome of the conflict situation in Palestine rather than by the provisions of the Partition Resolution."
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-196128/#:~:text=There%20was%20not%2C%20however%2C%20compliance,conditions%20to%20exert%20effective%20control.
There is also the view that UNR 181 was not legal, as it violates the UN charter, because "The Partition Resolution, it is claimed, as a partition of the country against the will of the overwhelming majority of the native population, was a flagrant violation of the principle of self-determination and therefore illegal."
2. Israel is a UN member state, according to the UN.
https://www.un.org/en/about-us/member-states#gotoI
3. As to being "a real state," what does that even mean? When did anarchists start talking about "real states"?
However, in terms of economics, Israel has a GDP of $513 billion, which is larger than Iran or Egypt. So, claiming they are some sort of tiny parasite existing off of the relatively meager support of the US (<1% of their GDP) lacks credibility. By the way, the GDP of Abkhazia's is $439.6 million, so 1,000x less than Israel.
“UNR 181 was never implemented”
Well, that simplifies things, then. To the extent that the UN is the arbiter of “legitimacy” (I reject that notion, but most people don’t seem to), Israel is therefore no more “legitimate” than Hamas or Black September.
Actually, no. You are confusing the existence of a nation with the UN approved boundaries. These are two separate issues. The world is full of disputed boundaries, yet we still say that India, Pakistan, Russia, Ukraine, the UK, France, Italy, and the United States exist as nations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes
Clearly the UN recognizes Israel as a nation, since it is a member of the UN, and Jordan and Egypt have treaties with Israel (treaties are agreements between nations). However, the boundaries of the state of Israel are disputed (by some). The world is full of disputed boundaries, yet we still say that India, Pakistan, Russia, Ukraine, the UK, France, Italy, and the United States exist as nations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes
Hamas is not recognized as a nation, even by the Palestinian Authority, the recognized representative of the state of Palestine. Like Boko Haram, ISIS, and Al-Qaeda, they are stateless group with no international recognition. They illegally occupy territory that belongs to the State of Palestine. Black September was a criminal gang that no longer exists and which never controlled any territory.
The UN approved boundaries are the boundaries Israel agreed to.
That agreement has never since been modified.
The borders in UNR 181 remain Israel’s borders.
That’s just a fact.
You don’t have to like it.
It’s a fact whether you like it or not.
It's not a question of what I "like".
An agreement without enforcement is meaningless. Clearly, Israel doesn't support 181, as they claim Jerusalem as their capitol and have adjusted their boundaries.
Russia agreed to follow the UN charter, which forbids wars of aggression, and it agreed to respect Ukraine's borders. Clearly they didn't, but they haven't been expelled from the UN. That's the real world.
So, the "fact" of Israel's borders being defined by 181 are simply ignored as outdated, and superseded by agreements between Israel and Jordan, Egypt, and the Palestinian Authority. Plus, several nations have moved their embassies to Jerusalem (Guatemala, Honduras, Kosovo, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, and the United States), which demonstrates a lack of recognition from the 77-year-old document prepared by a few European countries (many of which don't even exist anymore).
And as noted earlier, what right did anyone have to decide who controls the territory of the British Mandate? Under the rules of the UN, making decisions that a majority of people oppose is illegal.
The “legitimacy” of Israel as a state within the current Westphalian Model international apparatus is entirely predicated on and delineated by UNR 181 and Israel’s acceptance of UNR 181 as a condition of UN membership.
If Israel doesn’t support UNR 181, Israel opposes its own existence as a state within the apparatus that it claims membership in.
If Israel wants to go it alone and throw off the shackles of that apparatus, it needs to also give up any and all privileges or protections that come with membership in that apparatus.
If you were a Palestinian, would you recognize the right of Israel to exist?
The Likud charter doesn't recognize Palestine's right to exist. The charter calls for Jewish sovereignty from the river to the sea.
October 7th, as devastating as it was to Israel was not an existential threat. Israel's response brought it closer to its own destruction.
For three decades the PA dropped it's drawers and bent over for Israel, but couldn't achieve a state. Hamas lobbied some rockets over the border to get some attention.
And why do you ignore the harm, violence and killing Israel does?
Why don't you ever quote this from the Charter?
16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.
@knappster:disqus@tzatz:disqus@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@SIU1968:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_5VTdHrdJht:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@oded_samuel:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus