Washington and its allies are pressuring Hezbollah to withdraw from the Lebanon-Israel border to reduce tensions. An Israeli Defense Forces official recently explained to Newsweek that Tel Aviv is preparing for war in Lebanon but does not want to conduct those operations at this time.
According to the Financial Times, “The US, the UK, and France are exploring ways to convince Hezbollah to pull back from the Lebanon-Israel border in a diplomatic push to prevent a full-blown conflict erupting between the militant group and Israel.”
A Western diplomat said, “You need to get Israel and Hezbollah to stop fighting first, and you need to get Hezbollah to acquiesce.”
Hezbollah and the IDF have traded fire regularly since October 7. Hezbollah’s leader says the group’s goal is to prevent Israel from unleashing its full military strength on Palestinians. Israel has killed civilians, journalists, and politicians in southern Lebanon. Israeli forces have also used American-provided white phosphorus against its neighbor to the north. The US has ratified protocol 3 of the international treaty which bans use of such incendiaries, but Israel has not.
The Western nations are presenting their proposal for implementing UN Resolution 1701. 1701 calls for Hezbollah to withdraw from a large region of southern Lebanon between the border and the Litani River. A Lebanese official told FT that 1701 could be a framework for an agreement, but there are several hurdles to overcome.
“What the Israelis are trying to do is use their war in Gaza as a lever to try to pre-empt us or pressure us — it won’t work,” the Lebanese official said. “So what we are saying is let’s think constructively, put 1701 on the table and see who is violating it, and let’s try and reinvigorate its implementation.” Beirut explains Israel violates 1701 by using Lebanese air space, often to attack Syria.
Another issue for Beirut is the relative weakness of the Lebanese Army compared to Hezbollah.
An IDF official signaled that Israel is preparing for war with Hezbollah. The official told Newsweek. “We will not return to the situation that was on the 6th of October in the north. It means we will not allow our civilians neither in the Gaza envelope nor on the Lebanese border to be under this threat.” The military official continues, “We are prepared for that. We are on alert for that. We have the people, the personnel that is exactly ready for that, but we don’t want to do that yet.”
Kyle Anzalone is the opinion editor of Antiwar.com, news editor of the Libertarian Institute, and co-host of Conflicts of Interest.
“An Israeli Defense Forces official recently explained to Newsweek that Tel Aviv is preparing for war in Lebanon but does not want to conduct those operations at this time.”
DC: “our masters need more time to prepare for their war of extermination against you. Would you mind obliging them by leaving them free to wipe out Gaza first?”
The only organization that has purposefully engaged in civilian shelling would be Hezbollah against Israeli civilians, an unprovoked act of terrorism Israel and the IDF have subsequently responded appropriately too. The only reason there have been some civilian casualties during Israel and the IDF’s proportionate and reasonable self-defense justified response has been Hezbollah’s well-documented strategy of hiding behind civilian infrastructure. As the world comes together to condemn unjustifiable terrorism and support Israel, we can only wish the brave souls of the Israeli Defense Forces godspeed in their mission. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ed9112b4c5c8c5729d5baa2f96211dee4b78f2ec67356c543edc2704e409b28f.jpg
Every single dishonest and despicable post like this is doubling down on evil and stupid. You couldn’t be doing greater damage to Zionism if that were you intent.
The “post” you’d call “dishonest and despicable” has been backed up with credible sources and information. As such, the accusation you’d appear to be attempting would certainly appear to be false. Reminds me of the whole episode three thing anyways.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1f3bf3ee80c028855c0aef8a6941190bfdea44ec42606385e6256680427fc856.png
“As the world comes together to condemn unjustifiable terrorism and support Israel, we can only wish the brave souls of the Israeli Defense Forces godspeed in their mission.”
You spelled “US and vassal states,” “retaliation for genocide in Gaza,” and “cowards who can only fight from the inside of an armored vehicle” wrong
Most “Arab” governments privately want the terrorist and genocidal organization known as Hamas eliminated: https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2023/11/16/many-arab-governments-would-like-to-see-hamas-gone. There is quite a world of difference between major historical genocides (the largest genocide in the history of the world directly inspiring the creation of the state of Israel, in order for “never again” to be more than just a slogan) and a government attempting to protect its population from a terrorist and attempted genocidal strike, in which some civilians appear to have unfortunately lost their lives due to the terrorist and genocidal organization known as Hamas putting innocent civilians in danger by hiding their weapons, personnel and equipment near them, almost always either without consent or under coercion, and then after purposefully putting them in clear and consistent danger attempting to use some of the unfortunate consequences they have specifically been attempting to create and bear full responsibility for to attempt to influence both the public and the media. Israeli and the IDF demonstrate far more resolve than any Hamas terrorists hiding behind civilian infrastructure on a daily basis. As such, Israel and the Israeli Defense Forces have and would continue to hold the absolute moral high ground throughout their justified self-defense operations in the region and beyond.
“Most ‘Arab’ governments privately want the terrorist and genocidal organization known as Hamas eliminated . . .”
Most Arab governments, almost all of which are either absolute monarchies or authoritarians unresponsive to their citizens, are cowed and dominated by the US and dependent upon its support and assistance.
Almost without exception, the populations of those nations strongly support the Palestinian cause and oppose the Zionist occupation.
“strongly support the Palestinian cause ” Big difference between “cheerleading” and real action.
Assuming this would be correct (its not, regionally support for terrorist organization like Hamas and Hezbollah has been both slowly and rapidly declining: https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah), numbers don’t make right. A non-insignificant portion of the U.S. population would be in favor of abortion on-demand, the desire for a “personal choice” to murder and kill millions of individuals unable to defend themselves. They remain and continue to remain absolutely unequivocally objectively wrong no matter how many they can succeed in converting to their numbers and delusions. Hamas is a terrorist and genocidal organization. Israel has instituted a proportional, measured, justified self-defense response. This is and continues to be the reality of the situation.
Is it better to be the fuckee or the fucker. We shall soon see.
Read – Redirection by Sy Hearsh . That article from 2007 when AIPAC was planning and asking ” to do an Iraq on Iran ” explains how Arabs were browbeaten , scared, and forced to assume a clear hostile posture to Iran, Hizbullah, and Syria .
Gadi Taub in Table presents the same age old bolierplate self serving argument thst Arabs want Hamas, Iran, Hizbullah be crushed .
No fact checking, no reference to public poll, to mentioning of clear earlier prior to 2007 positiins of Arab to Iran, no mention of Hamas diplomatic relation with Arab countries ( vs the forcing of relation with Israel by US) , no mention of active Israeli sabotaging of Iran – Saudi relation and killing of Soleimani who was at the time of killing was trying to get done what China did, no mention of Chinese mediated Iran Saudi treaty .
What ever suits Israeli wet dream is presented to America and is offered as reality . Next Israel asks- why arent you working on this instead of appeasing Iran.
“In this imaginary tableau, shared by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel is in an unspoken but deep alliance with the Sunni Arab states, who want to see Hamas crushed and Iran and its proxies relentlessly attacked. What these rulers say in public, so the story goes, is miles apart from what they say in private. In public, of course, Arab leaders are breathing fire about Israel’s mad amplification of the Dahiya Doctrine in Gaza. In private, these Arab leaders are reportedly telling U.S. and Israeli insiders (but seemingly no one else) that they heartily approve Israeli’s operations.”
D Hendrickson 12/13/2013
Responsible Statecraft
The so called state of Israel was promised in the British Establishment BALFOUR DECLARATION OF 1917 , obviously omitting to inform the Palestinian People of the plan , the invasion by Zionists of Palestine was pre-planned .
I will put is simply. You are full of it.
only wish the brave souls of the Israeli Defense Forces godspeed in their mission
He’s still saying that? I wonder what his excuse will be for the IDF killing those hostages. I had to put him on ignore since I was getting nauseated every time I read his repetitive bullshit.
I tried “Flushing” but the slime and smell are still intolerable.
In Israel , age group of 18-44 form the base of the combatants be ,they ate either in active duty or on leave who could be called at anytime.
Israeli intelligence that often foments triuble,causes assassination, and spreads false information and orchestrates terrorism hidebehind civilian dwellings .
Its civilians are armed to the teeth and these arms are supplied by IDF who guide and help them – evict Arabs, destroy Arab neighborhood ,decsecrate churches and masques , build apartheid road, steal harvest, bulldoze enture Arab neighborhood , flood Arab streets with sewages . There is no innocents . They are armed thugs .
As far as I can see or read from Non inflluenced US sources the entire world with the exception of the few US flunkies left has taken the Gaza situation as a threat to humanity. It is only a matter of time before this blows up in the faces of Israel and the US. I am eagerly waiting for this to happen. It might even force some political change in the US.
The US has forfeited its right to exist.
I am 81 years old and have has a pretty good life.It is ok with me if the US bites the dust. They deserve it
First they exterminated the Native Americans. Then they imported millions of Africans to serve in the cotton fields when they were not being hanged. After waging wars on the remaining Indians they took on the Spanish and Mexicans in search of property and power. After a few world wars brought about the destruction of the British Empire,America was created as the savior of the world. It did not work out that way. Oil the fuel and death of Mankind was found. The rest is relatively recent history.In its greed the US has brought about the possible and probable destruction of civilization. Is it possible to avoid this calamity? Only the Shadow knows.
The Native Americans were treated horribly-but they are still here,not exterminated. Britain,Spain, and Portugal,the Arab lands,all practiced slavery. Oil has enabled mankind a high standard of living.The food you eat was all provided by oil. do you think Chinese hegemony will be kinder?
“The Native Americans were treated horribly-but they are still here,not exterminated”
There are no “the” “Native Americans.” There were a whole bunch of different “tribes”/”nations” of them, some of which were indeed exterminated. The Spanish (mostly through spreading disease) killed off the Potano people who lived on the land where I rent, about 400 years ago.
I’ll be 81 in January. This war shit has been going on all my life and I’ve had enough. It’s plain to see; The US government has nothing at all to do with democracy, old timer buddy.
let us of speak of Russia’s pet Chechnyans
““In 1979, [Rafael] Eitan and [Meir] Dagan [both brass in the Israel Defense Forces] created the Front for the Liberation of Lebanon from Foreigners, and ran that fictitious group from 1979 to 1983. In 1981 and 1982, Ariel Sharon used that Front to conduct a series of indiscriminate car bombings that killed hundreds of civilians.”
From The book of Ronen Bergman’s Rise and Kill First.
“The objective of this massive ‘terrorist’ car bombing campaign was to ‘sow chaos’ amongst the Palestinian & Lebanese civilian population” and, in 1981-82, to provoke the PLO into resorting to ‘terrorism,’ thus providing Israel with an excuse to invade Lebanon.”
——————————————————————————
2006 war was also an attempt by terrorist nation Israel to divert attention from its internal problem and use the kidnapping as excuse – a kidnapping that was started by Israel before Lebanese militia responded by capturing Israeli citizen .
Mirror edge quote
[The only organization that has purposefully engaged in civilian shelling would be Hezbollah. . . ].
If you really believe this you meed some serious help.
Israel has purposely oppressed and shelled civilians as well. They could have walked into there with tanks and stormed the tunnels, They just took the easy way out by shelling civilians, women and children, The souls of which will curse them in hell.
All sides are corrupt and killing Gods creation in numerous ways worldwide from fear and for gain.
I think they failed the test.
Yes,walk in and have terrorists shoot down from six story buildings.Eliminate the buildings,and they can’t shoot down on you.
With 100,000 or more missiles pointed at them, well dug in combat bloodied fanatical terrorists itching to go,Israel has every right to prepare, and if necessary to destroy their enemies.
You could say Israel has been preparing for an attack on Hezbollah therefore Hezbollah has every right to defend itself.
Ain’t precedent a fickle b*tch…!
Hezbollah is a terrorist organization,whose stated aims include killing every Jewish person on earth. Thems the facts.
As they should. Their previous unprovoked shelling against Israeli civilians that forced the Israeli and the IDF to respond appropriately against Lebanon was a decision the Iranian backed Hezbollah militia has been entirely responsible for, with any subsequent responses possibly causing similar amounts of casualties due to Hezbollah’s well documented “strategy” of hiding behind civilian infrastructure. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1cc448097cbd1561985ad078c702b481a82e44677da15ba9cd19e5f29fc3923e.jpg
No action taken against Israel by Palestinians and their allies, at any time in the past 75 years, is unprovoked. In individual cases, it might be reasonable to discuss whether such action is legal, or moral, or wise, but it is all provoked.
Except no. No one would have any right to be “provoked” in order to commit terrorism against innocents by the existence of a legitimate state, much less one that has existed for nearly 80 years at this point in time. If you’d attempt to subsequently define “provocations” as “at this specific point in time I’d have an issue with this”, the definition would be meaningless given it applying to quite literally anything of somewhat relevance. As such, Israel and the IDF continue to hold the moral high ground throughout their justified self-defense counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations.
It doesn’t matter whether you or I or anyone else thinks provocation conveys rights to commit terrorism. Provocation such as that engaged in by Israel over many decades does, as it always has and always will provoke resistance and, when other avenues are foreclosed, violence in response.
So don’t bother with the endless and ridiculous tales of the evil Arabs who have no right to act as they do. They believe they do have that right and most humans, always and everywhere, who have been treated the way the Zionists have treated the Palestinians have believed the same.
If you want it to stop, stop the brutal ethnic cleansing and apartheid policies that constitute the provocation. Zionist apologists are the last people who should be talking about “rights” in this mess.
Except no. Israeli governmental policy toward “Palestinian Resistance” has taken every possible step toward “reconciliation” and general de-escalation, with Israeli security forces even pulling out of Gaza, granting the region effective self-government, their ostensible goal, yet terrorist attacks and calls for genocide from these organizations did not cease. Israeli Security Forces routinely allow children hoping for “martyrdom” to attack their tanks and personnel, strikes against known terrorists use special forces instead of explosives for fear of civilian casualties, something that results in far more military casualties, yet this muted response wouldn’t qualify as self-defense? If killing were truly the reasons for this conflict, wouldn’t the conflict cease when Hamas became the de-facto government in Gaza and gained controlled of the entire territory of Gaza without an Israeli Security presence? Additionally, the claim that Israel would be an “apartheid state” or have ever engaged in any of the policies you might claim it would is simply not representative of the reality of the Israeli state or its policies: https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalreview.com%2F2021%2F05%2Fno-israel-is-not-an-apartheid-state%2F%3AaFK6T6N9vRjBoqUz_d9wgZPAlIc&cuid=3974901. Additionally, I’m actually very far from being an “apologist” for Israel or “Zionism” as a whole, as well as being very much not being in favor of the current Netanyahu government as well as some of its attempted policies. As such, it continues to be perfectly reasonable and acceptable for both me and others to continue discussing the rights of the innocents Israel is defending through their justified self-defense operations.
You aren’t nearly slick enough to dodge the truth: You’re an apologist for genocide and everyone here knows it.
Also, you should learn about paragraphs.
You’d say after your previous “response” was a single paragraph. But sure, if being an “apologist for genocide” within this parlance would correlate to supporting a government protecting its population from terrorism and acts of genocide, you’d fail to have explained what would be wrong.
Mirrors edge, you appear to be pro war on an antiwar website. You encourage no one. Your visable with your motivations
“You’d say after your previous “response” was a single paragraph.”
Structurally, it only needed to be a single paragraph.
Diss is correct, tho – your Comment(s) would have better narrative flow, and be decidedly more read-able, if you tapped the ol’ “Connecticut carriage-return” (the ENTER key) now & again.
Skimming your “Except no. Israeli governmental policy…” brick of text, I instantly see six places where a section-break would be useful, almost required.
I really enjoy the combat between you two. You are right andv hev is wrong and ignorant. It is not a discussion or a fair fight. Only one person has truth on his side. Please keep it up,I need to laugh.
It seems Israel has only halfway taken those actions when it benefited them in some way.
I wonder what would have happened if Israel aknoweledged Palestine and lifted them up above other middle east countries like we did saudi arabia in the old days.
We probably would have a functioning Democracy in the ME not something the US would ever permit.
Leaving Gaza and the West Bank and returning the 750 Thousand living on Palestinian land to Israel would be a good start. Then we could talk about the right of return and the hanging of Netanyahu and the rest ofvthe leaders of Israel.
I suggest you return your home to the Native Americans.
Wendell lives in Guam. Ain’ no Cherokee there.
Netanyahu doesn’t deserve to die for thinking Hamas would stop being the terrorist and genocidal organization it would be. The Jewish people have inhabited the area of “Gaza” (Judea) for far longer than self-identifying “Palestinians” (technically almost exclusively part of the Jewish “ethnic group” according to genealogy: https://www.science.org/content/article/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry) continuously, and have until very recent history when the terrorist and genocidal organization known as Hamas committed ethnic cleansing in the territory of “Gaza” (Judea). Your attempted “argument” is irrelevant anyways, as if the territories you would be referring to would truly be “Palestinian” how would the Israeli government have jurisdiction there anyways. I’m getting tired of you calling for violence against people who, while they may make some mistakes, are simply attempting to prevent terrorism and genocide against the survivors of the largest genocide in the history of the world.
Seriously your lack of paragraph-breaks is starting to irk my OCD.
Let someone bigger than you beat you up amd call you names untill at near death and last resort you pick up a baseball bat , . . . Then have them say “see he has a weapon he is dangerous!.
The whole point to the provocation arguement is that if Israel had acted in history instead like a neighbor in true faith and charity, we wouldn’t be at this point where both sides are now wrong.
It only takes the actions of one side to change direction.
Except for this metaphor to have been accurate, they’d have had to have used the baseball bat (missiles) to indiscriminately attack and assault the other individual for decades, with their indiscriminate use of the baseball bat (missiles) and other weapons of destruction (pipe bombs, improvised mortars) forcing them to defend themselves after the worst atrocity (genocide) in the history of the world was committed against them. Israel has done precisely what you’ve described with a visa work program, the program being used by Hamas to gather intelligence on the targets it committed terrorism and acts of genocide against. There is quite a difference between being “pro-war” and believing governments and their people have a right to defend themselves from terrorism and acts of genocide. As such, Israel and the IDF continue to hold the absolute moral high ground throughout their self-defense justified operations.
Killing over 4000 children to soften a target is not the moral high ground, calling people animals is not either, you seem to confuse justifcations for abominations with ethical war justification.
This is not an answer for peace and never has been. Do you not expect the parents of these dead children to hate Israel for the rest of their lives?
Or will that future war for revenge be one sided justification in your mind as well.
All this horrid killing of mass inncent people in such manner will only create endless war. Where is the peace? There is none when killing thousands of peoples children is met with. .
Meh. . . Whatever.
And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will wax cold.
What a true statement in todays world. Many will not make it at the emd i think.
I read this somewhere. I think the lawlessness it talks about was old laws such as not killing etc. Lawlessness definitly abounds in this scenario. And killing children without remorse seems to prove love has waxed cold for some.
See, Mirror Sedge ? Volunteer Who did much better with their spacing. Not 100% perfect but so much better than yours !
aesthetics rant ends
Your right of course. On October 7th, a member of Hamas, the enter key, broke into the kibbutz. It did things, things I can’t repeat here. I can’t bear to look at it anymore on any sort of keyboard, anytime I‘d find myself even glancing at it I break into a cold sweat. As such, I hope you’d understand the unique circumstances behind this situation.
Hey, take a moment, regain CTRL, maybe drink a TAB and if you really need to, ESC for a while.
October 7 was quite bestial,and restarted this mess. Hamas hid behind children,using schools hospitals, and mosques as shields,retreated to their tunnels and let the people of Gaza take the beating. what remorse hoes Hamas show?
Thus, I guess, you justifying
“…(the IDF killing) children, (targeting & destroying) schools hospitals, and mosques, (flooding) tunnels (without knowing who’s in them) and (slaughtering) the people of Gaza. what (morality) need (the gov’t of the ASI) show?”
This line of sick pseudo-justification continues to be false, misleading, and such should be treated with the scorn and condemnation it deserves. The only organization that puts civilians and civilian infrastructure in danger is the terrorist and genocidal organization known as Hamas that knowingly attempts to hide in civilian infrastructure in an attempt to cause civilian casualties specifically due to their and only their actions, with them bearing full responsibility for every casualty that has occurred in this terrorist and genocidal conflict of choice. Civilians aren’t allowed in Hamas military tunnels, was there supposed to be some sort of attempted point there. Maybe you shouldn’t be attempting to criticize Israel for the actions the terrorist and genocidal organization known as Hamas has been very well documented to have committed while openly publishing in its charter its goal of genociding the Jewish people: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/understanding-hamas-s-genocidal-ideology/ar-AA1i0jaZ?
I mean, FFS, look how much better this looks, Mirror Sedge :
“Except for this metaphor to have been accurate, they’d have had to have used the baseball bat (missiles) to indiscriminately attack and assault the other individual for decades, with their indiscriminate use of the baseball bat (missiles) and other weapons of destruction (pipe bombs, improvised mortars) forcing them to defend themselves after the worst atrocity (genocide) in the history of the world was committed against them.
Israel has done precisely what you’ve described with a visa work program, the program being used by Hamas to gather intelligence on the targets it committed terrorism and acts of genocide against.
There is quite a difference between being “pro-war” and believing governments and their people have a right to defend themselves from terrorism and acts of genocide.
As such, Israel and the IDF continue to hold the absolute moral high ground throughout their self-defense justified operations.”
Much of the red in that map isn’t part of Israel.
Haven’t we already done this. Okay, you’d have specific personal opinions, such as “statism is terrorism”, as well as “I believe the U.N. charter should cause this to happen”. The U.N. was founded to guarantee the safety and security of the world, if any of their resolutions would run counter to that goal it would be them that would need to change, not Israel. Israel not maintaining security control of the territory of “Gaza” (Judea) through a false belief that the terrorist and genocidal organization known as Hamas would cease its terrorism and acts of genocide against the survivors of the largest genocide in human history is precisely the security situation that allowed Hamas to arm for, plan and ultimately commit the terrorism and acts of genocide it has. As such, the repeated attempted criticism against individuals pointing this is misleading, false and unappreciated.
Israel was created by a UN resolution.
The UN was founded to prevent genocide such as the Holocaust from ever occurring again. It is quite precisely its primary purpose for existing in the post World War environment, and as such any action it could take that would not adequately prevent such genocide from ever occurring again is illegitimate according to its own founding documents and ideals.
The UN has so far failed to prevent the genocide occurring in Gaza.
Its also failed to end child hunger and starvation in over 50 years of lip flapping
That is true. Worthless as tits on a bull.
Here’s their 2021 scorecard.
See pg 18: In 2021, UNICEF reached 335.9 million children with services to prevent stunting and other forms of malnutrition, a 38 percent increase from 2020 and exceeding the target of 300 million. Nearly 5.5 million boys and girls with SAM were admitted for treatment through UNICEF support, with 𝐚𝐧 𝐨𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐥𝐥 𝐫𝐞𝐜𝐨𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲 𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝟖𝟖.𝟗 𝐩𝐞𝐫𝐜𝐞𝐧𝐭.
https://www.unicef.org/executiveboard/media/10681/file/2022-AS-2021_EDAR_Data_Companion-EN-2022.04.26.pdf
Agreed. But it has also done a lot to mitigate the problem via UNICEF and other programs.
The UN is packed with representitives of nations. These countries control shipping barges, entire farming industries, food processors, manpower, and militaries, And still they do nothing when its in their power to end starvation tomorrow.
They have more than enough tools to take wasted food in overfed countries and feed the world. Yet promises and speaches are the mainstay
Hollow promisses for 50 years and still a child starves to death every 12 seconds. Its a discrace to humanity.
I hate the UN. Its votes to let war criminals reign and lack of action to eleiminate world suffering. . . A neutered dog in z worldwide dog and pony show.
OK yeah it does a few little things. But then thats what it should make itself out to be and quit promising its something else. 50 years are now wasted and gone over relying on something that it never was.
It has never answered world problems and it never will.
Case in point, 4000 children dead and half a million people starving and not one positive action to stop it.
They will wait till the killing fields are long past before rising up with half hearted actions and endless speeches.
Its now or never and they choose never. Thats the UN.
I see the UN as an altruistic body that relies on consensus to get anything done, and only if the nations with vetoes allow it. They do what they can.
I posted a link elsewhere here that demonstrates that they do quite a bit. For example, in 2021 UNICEF saved 5 million children who would have died of starvation, and assisted 335 million people who were hungry but not yet starving.
I’m not the kind of person who is inclined to shut down an organization that is doing good on the grounds that it isn’t doing good enough.
You seem to want an organization that will solve all problems. But such an organization would require absolute power. And that is not something I’m willing to give to anybody.
Fair enough, so we dont rely on the UN to stop war crimes.
Who then?
I don’t think there is an answer. The best tool we may have is the 𝘧𝘦𝘢𝘳 𝘰𝘧 𝘢 𝘳𝘦𝘤𝘪𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘱𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘦. For example, Russia did not use cluster bombs against AFU troops until after Ukraine started using them against RF troops. Since they were supplied by the US, the US can expect them to be used against its own troops in the next conflict, not just by Russia, but by 𝘢𝘯𝘺 foe. If the BRICS countries were to form some kind of alliance similar to NATO, the US might discover that it too could be targeted with sanctions and weapons shipments to proxies.
Israel is discovering that Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthi’s are more formidable than anticipated. But the greatest weapon those groups may have is the sympathy of most other countries. That could impact the trade of much-needed commodities.
“For example, in my imagination, Russia did not use cluster bombs against AFU troops until after Ukraine started using them against RF troops.”
Fixed, no charge.
Provide evidence.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/putin-warns-ukraine-against-using-u-s-supplied-cluster-bombs-saying-russia-has-its-own-sufficient-stockpile
BTW I noticed that Malasia will not allow ships destined for Israel to used its ports.
The UN has no weapons to stop the US and Israel from killing with impunity.
It’s complicated. The UN can’t wage war. But if the Security Council agrees, and members comply, war will ensue. Prime example is the Korean War.
From Encyclopedia Britannica
Although the U.S. military led the United Nations’ expeditionary force, its involvement was tied only to a UN Security Council resolution, because the UN itself cannot declare war.
Only there is no genocide in Gaza.
No, just 20,000+ civilians dead from indiscriminate bombing that has not harmed Hamas, and the use of starvation as a weapon.
If this was happening to Israelis, I have little doubt that YOU would be screaming attempted genocide.
How do you know it hasn’t harmed Hamas?
If they have harmed Hamas in any significant way with indiscriminate bombing, they would brag about it all over the media.
Have you seen anything to the contrary?
Absence of evidence is not the same thing as evidence of absence.
I suspect that neither side wants to talk about exactly how much Hamas has been “harmed.” It’s likely a good deal less than the Israelis would like and a good deal more than Hamas would like.
Nonetheless, the destruction of innocent life has been horrific.
What they are doing is like blowing up an ant hill just to kill the queen. It probably won’t work, and if it does work, the survivors will likely be more determined than ever to find a new queen.
Agreed. But the US vetoed the Security Council Resolution demanding a ceasefire.
I think everybody knows that if the US doesn’t cooperate, it doesn’t matter what the UN says. Conversely, if the US does support a UN resolution, action WILL be taken. US participation in the UN is supposedly intended to gain consensus. But consensus doesn’t seem to matter when it comes to Israel.
True. Therefore, any action it takes should be aimed at either enforcing UNR 181, or repealing UNR 181. As long as Israel continues to occupy/operate outside its borders, something like genocide is inevitable.
Israel was not created by a UN resolution — the UN has absolutely no authority to create nations.
Nor, despite Mr. Knapp’s endlessly-repeated assertions — are Israel’s borders defined by UNGA Resolution 181. The UN has no authority to define national borders. Do a few-second thought experiment:
* The United Nations is a creation of the victorious Allies of WWII.
* Those Allies had substantial control of the shape of the UN Charter and continue to have effective control via their Security Council vetoes (together with their other coercive powers).
* Do you really think that any of those Allies would have permitted the General Assembly to have the authority to define national borders? Do you really believe that the 193 Member States of the UN would be members if membership required accepting that the organization — or the Security Council alone! — has the authority to define boundaries or create nation states?
These notions that float endlessly around here are preposterous. A few moments’ reflection by anyone with a grasp of the reality of international relations should make that clear. A review of the UN Charter should make it clear. A review of the history of the world since the founding of the UN should make it clear: The UN cannot and does not create nations or define the borders of nations. It can propose, encourage, negotiate, etc. but it simply does not have the authority that many here believe and insist that it has.
“Nor, despite Mr. Knapp’s endlessly-repeated assertions — are Israel’s borders defined by UNGA Resolution 181”
Israel agreed to the UNR 181 border “recommendations” as a condition of admission to the UN. At no point since has it declared or negotiated new borders.
QED, the borders it accepted and has not since changed are in fact its borders.
Neither of those claims is true. I’ve told you so multiple times and challenged to provide documentary evidence to support your claim. You have not done so; you simply keep repeating it.
The specific conditions and requirements for Israel’s admission did not include a mandatory acceptance of the partition plan borders. Instead, it involved negotiations and discussions within the UN. The exact terms and conditions of Israel’s admission to the UN were decided through diplomatic processes and agreements, which did not explicitly hinge on the acceptance of the partition plan borders. If you want your argument to the contrary to prevail, you should be providing a citation to support the assertion that acceptance of the borders was “a condition of admittance.” If that were true, there would be official UN records indicating that such was the case. If you think they exist, find them and show us.
“At no point since has it declared or negotiated new borders.”
Please. At every step of the way, beginning with the 1949 armistice lines, Israel has treated as its territory areas greatly exceeding the 1947 partition proposal. And it has made it abundantly clear for decades that it has absolutely no intention of remaining within or returning to the territory within those boundaries (which it has never confined itself to). You are pretending that an obvious fiction is somehow a real thing.
You should put up or shut up. Find evidence that the UN has the authority to determine national borders and present it. Find evidence that acceptance of the 1947 proposal was actually a condition of Israel’s admittance and present it. In both cases, the only dispositive evidence would be official UN documentation. I’m still waiting.
I’ve provided the evidence multiple times. Their agreement is even mentioned in the resolution for admission (“Recalling its resolutions of 29 November 1947 and 11 December 1948 and taking note of the declarations and explanations made by the representative of the Government of Israel before the Ad Hoc Political Committee in respect of the implementation of the said resolutions”).
You wishing that the “documentary evidence” didn’t exist and pretending that I haven’t presented it multiple times doesn’t change the fact that it exists and that I’ve presented it multiple times.
Throughout its history, Israel has had precisely one declared and internationally recognized border, and that border was defined in UNR 181.
None of that amounts to evidence for the specific claims you have made and I think you know it. I doubt that most of the participants in these exchanges have sufficient background knowledge or expertise in reading and interpreting the kinds of documentation involved to judge the disagreement we’re having. I think you are capable of the necessary research and assessment but are unwilling to go there. Too bad.
We’re not having a disagreement. That would imply argument from premises based on facts. Me noticing/documenting facts and you stomping your foot and insisting that they’re not facts because you don’t want them to be facts doesn’t rise to that level.
The UN is a neutered dog, it barks and does nothing.
It created good jobs for diplomats
Your metaphor is broken. A neutered dog can still bite; it just can’t f**k around.
Toothless dog is better. The U.N. lacks its own army with which to bite, while veto-wielding members of the UNSC certainly f**k around as it suits them.
Wrong. There is nothing historically controversial about how Israel was created. Here is the United Nation’s detailed account of the partitioning of the British Mandate in 1947.
https://www.un.org/unispal/history/#:~:text=In%201947%2C%20the%20UK%20turned,Read%20more.&text=After%20looking%20at%20alternatives%2C%20the,(II)%20of%201947).
You need to read more carefully. You should re-read Knapp’s claims, my responses, and the UN material you cite. Please pay careful attention, in the UN piece, to words like “envisage” and “propose.”
You should also be aware that the website article you cite is a descriptive narrative by UN communications staff. It is not the text of a resolution, nor is it the text of an official administrative action based on authority delegated by the Security Council or the General Assembly. That is, it is not the sort of evidence that matters in resolving this disagreement.
Your expression, “historically controversial” doesn’t meaningfully apply to the disagreement under discussion. This is a disagreement about fact. Knapp believes — perhaps you do as well — that the UN is somehow authorized to define national boundaries and that it did so in the case of Israel. He further claims that acceptance of those boundaries was, specifically, a condition of admission to UN membership.
There is no official documentary evidence to support either of those claims and, by their very nature, there would have to be such documentation if they were accurate.
“There is no official documentary evidence to support either of those claims, other than the UN resolution admitting Israel to the UN explicitly supporting both of those claims.”
Fixed, no charge.
You are correct that in most cases, the UN does not set “borders.”
Israel is not most cases. Its entire existence is a direct result of a UN resolution — a resolution which assigned its borders, and which it retroactively accepted as a condition of UN membership.
That’s just an historical fact of reality, and no amount of dancing around pretending otherwise will change it.
You’re still bobbing, weaving and dodging. If you aren’t going to support your claims with actual evidence, I’ll just conclude that you’d rather double down on bullshit that either do the work to substantiate your position or finally ad mit that you’re wrong.
Basically, I think you’re utterly full of shit on this one.
If the Israelis had not fought off their enemies,all UN resolutions would have been moot. The UN sat by time and time when Arabs attacked Israel.
What I meant by “historically controversial” is that there is no controversy about the fact that Israel was created by UN Resolution 181.
You may not think that the UN had the authority to create a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Nonetheless, it did.
Which was created totally out of a sense of guilt for the killing of 6 million Jews by the Nazis who had a lot of support for appeasement especially in the US with the business partners of Germany and the support of the CIA and the Dulles brothers.
What territory comprises Israel is not a matter of my “specific personal opinions.” Israel’s borders are and always have been defined by UNR 181, not by me.
IMHO you need mental help.
Thank you. There is a big difference between what Israel claims to be part of Israel and what actually IS part of Israel.
It is now.
Lebanon/Syria/Palestine/Iraq/ ETC., do NOT trust the USA/Israel, as they have heard nothing but LIES coming from them. The Deviancy practiced in USA/Israel, is what drives them to hate, destroy Arab Countries. The want all people like themselves and those in the EU, UK, Canada, who promote deviancy in their populations to infect the world and some are saying NO. Israel does not get to tell Lebanon, Palestine, Syria what to do and the only reason they do, is because WEAK America is supplying the weapons.
First you treat them like crap like a schoolyard bully. Then when the little guy stands up against you you point at him and say “See. . I told you so!”
Unfortunatly the world is not that stupid.
Most parts of South and Central America have had the benefit of Americas genorosity. Next on the table is Africa. It will only stop with the end of Capitalism,Imperialism and Militarism of the US which will never happen.Humanities doom is approaching quickly and I personally don’t see a solution.
Communism and socialism have failed,as did Monarchy. China is planning to “do” aarica.
“Communism and socialism have failed…”
Half-truth. All Communists were socialists; not all Socialists are communists. Many socialist countries thrive; the six remaining communist countries are in varying degrees of steadily-still-existing.
“…as did Monarchy.”
Those monarchies with ceremonial powers are still extant and stable; those who rule countries as the de-facto government…are still extant and stable.
Even in Commonwealth countries, like mine, I hear much support for the monarchy. I hear the Union Jack’s to remain. I see Namatjira in custody. I see Truganini’s in chains.
The US, the UK and France such neutral and trustworthy Parties.
I’m pretty sure that no one in Lebanon has forgotten that the US blessed Israel’s savage assaults there in 1982.
They ended up ending their campaign of precision strikes in Lebanon against Hezbollah due in part to their fear of causing civilian casualties. As such, the statement and the implication you presumably have attempted to have made could not be further from the truth of the situation.
Israel besieged Beirut, subjecting it to effectively indiscriminate bombardment from land, air and sea, because it didn’t want to sustain the casualties it knew it would suffer if it sent in ground forces. There’s no real argument about that.
In the wake of the siege, following the evacuation of PLO forces and despite a ceasefire agreement, the IDF guided and supported its proxy “Lebanese Forces” (a reactionary Christian militia) in the massacres in the Sabra neighborhood of Beirut and the adjacent Shatila refugee camp. Among other things, the IDF blocked the exits of the camp to prevent refugees from escaping the massacre and fired flares to provide illumination for the massacre at night.
This is all widely-known and generally-accepted history. You might be convinced otherwise (if you aren’t a baldfaced liar), but the world knows the truth.
Either you should be engaged in remedial reading of the relevant history or . . . you should simply be ashamed of yourself.
That wouldn’t appear to have actually been what occurred. Israel performed a tactical encirclement of some refugee camps, publicly stating they had the names of known terrorists who could be there. Some others have since claimed the security operation subsequently done within those areas had been handled improperly, however, international organizations such as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International still call for investigations of the incident, proving the validity of the claims you’ve attempted to have made is still at best unproven and unconfirmed: https://www.encyclopedia.com/humanities/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/sabra-and-shatila-massacres
Have you no shame?
Read this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre
Read every word. Follow the links and read the material there.
The article states there have been significant concerns over the security situation, however, it uses language like “believed to” and “an independent commission” when referring to perceived Israeli complicity in the events. If there were to have been an organization that would have been complicit in events that could have occured, it would have been “Phalangists”, one of whom after being asked “ …why they were killing civilians… [said] that pregnant women will give birth to children who will grow up to be terrorists”. It was precisely over concerns involving these events raised within the Israeli government that then-current Israeli defense minister Ariel Sharon subsequently resigned. U.S. and Canadian foreign policies reflect the view that while incidents that may have occurred within the refugee camp would be absolutely appalling, this would not be a genocide, nor should Israel hold primary responsibility for what could primarily be an intelligence failure. That a force Israel would have been attempting to back could have committed unfortunate incidents would not invalidate their primary response in protecting their citizens from the terrorist Iranian proxy organization known as Hezbollah indiscriminately shelling their people. As such, Israel and the IDF, taking every reasonable measure to prevent civilian casualties as well as significantly restructuring when it could occur against their best efforts, continue to lead a moral justified response protecting their people after the largest genocide in the history of the world against them.
There is no chance that he will read anything accurate and critical of the US and Israels positions.
That’s interesting, considering I both read the article and am actually critical of both the state of Israel and the U.S. (such as with Israeli “judicial” reforms, U.S. “interventions”). Israel would probably be much better off without Netanyahu in a leadership position in the country.
It is too late to ditch Netanyahu, The damage is done, He has had support among the Israel power structure. If anything is going to change there needs to be political change in the US. Neither Trump or Biden is qualified to make any decisions about anything of substance.Biden will kill us with Oil pollution and Trump will create a fascist state. Take your choice.
I have read quite a bit about the Shatila refugee camp horror. Flares were used by the Israeli to illuminate the the areas as the massacre continued. Oh heck, let Wikipedia explain the horror and the ruthlessness of Sharon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre
I mean what he said was so ridiculous, are you sure he wasn’t being sarcastic? …No, no, no. Now I remember. He’s the guy in Foggy Bottom with his smoke and mirrors.
I agree, now they think nothing of killing women and children to further their cause. A true definition of evil.
Mirror you are DREAMING!!!
The US fools no one these days. They all know. Its just that some still fear them or fear a world without them. . . . But really no one is fooled by them, Its all political blah blah at this point
“A Western diplomat said, ‘You need to get Israel and Hezbollah to stop fighting first, and you need to get Hezbollah to acquiesce.’”
The West needs smarter diplomats. 🙄 I don’t think acquiescence is going to be an easy sell to Hezbollah.
Hezbollah will not back down. They can’t because they will lose their position as being the biggest threat to Israel. Not sure if it makes sense for Israel to attack Hezbollah with a war attrition going on in Gaza. Eventually Hezbollah will need to halt firing rockets at Israel. If they don’t Israel will be forced to attack.
Hezbollah is begging for war.
They might just get it and the same Russia and Hamas supporters here will be blaming it on Israel and US as usual. .
I see hundreds of rockets from Hezbollah and Iran raining down on little Israel and their mighty Air Force,IDF and their 100 Nukes.. Most of the Arab nations and Russia as well as China know what a threat to world peace and prosperity is being waged. The thick headed politicians in Israel and the US are not listening. Too much armament money is at stake as well as a load of Racism.
In other words,you want to seek Israel nuke its enemies.
US Pushing Hezbollah To Withdraw from Lebanon-Israel Border
wait, what? …. uncle sam = hey yalls bastards take 3 or 4 steps back so that our little brother can expand his yard into yall boys’ yard. what. what.
Wait what?
Isn’t that what Russia wants Ukraine to do as well, to withdraw from their own fcking land so the big brother can come back for more, and you support that?
But but…..
“…Russia wants Ukraine…”
Had we a dollar for every time you leap in with a pointless non-sequitor, Donald “Russia/Putin (verb) (noun)” Julio, we’d have antiwar.com’s donation drives funded well into 2031.
Your Whataboutism somehow manages to make your position even weaker without you having made any real point at all. That should violate Conservation of Energy, but if you’re inside the event-horizon of a Russia-hatin’ black hole, conventional physics as we understand them might not apply.
OMG “whataboutism” man you are the man.
son of bitch!
what
You need to open up other neural channels in your brain, instead of the only one which always ends up with Russia Russia Russia.
They can do that and do it at the same time they’re pushing Putin to withdraw from Crimea. I now get their brilliant plan. After that, they plan on pushing Hezbollah to withdraw from Lebanon and Putin to withdraw from Russia. …And China to withdraw from China.
US Pushing Hezbollah To Withdraw from Lebanon-Israel Border
wait, what? …. uncle sam = hey yalls bastards take 3 or 4 steps back so that our little brother can expand his yard into yall boys’ yard. what. what.
“This was presented as an act of unprovoked aggression by the Western media, which stripped the attack of its context. In truth, the military operation was the latest flare-up in long-running, if small-scale, hostilities between Israel and Hizbullah since Israel ended its two-decade occupation of south Lebanon in 2000. Those tensions have focused on a disputed corridor of land, known as the Shebaa Farms, claimed by Lebanon but held by Israel.
In addition, after withdrawing, Israel maintained and exacerbated the state of hostilities by refusing to release a handful of Lebanese PoWs, by failing to hand over maps of the hundreds of thousands of land mines it laid during the occupation, by repeatedly shooting at, and killing, Lebanese shepherds who strayed into the Shebaa Farms area, and, most significantly, by violating almost daily Lebanese sovereignty by sending warplanes and spy drones as far as Beirut.”https://www.counterpunch.org/2006/09/25/human-rights-watch-still-missing-the-point/
Only a lunatic or a fucking moron would believe that Israel did not have this coming ten times over.
The true voice of love and peace. Lean to accept.
Title should be Lip flapping and innuendo, . .
An Israeli Defense Forces official recently explained to Newsweek. . .
According to the Financial Times. . .
A Western diplomat said. . .
Hezbollah’s leader says. . .
A Lebanese official told Financial Times that. . .
Beirut explains . . .
An IDF official signaled that Israel is . .
Everybodys talking at me, I cant hear a word the’re saying, only the echos, echos, echos. .
Lets remember folks, this is all just the words of those who have proven that they can not be trusted
I hate repetition but… The BEST way to AVERT WAR is by utilizing PEACE.
EVERYONE NEEDS TO SIT THEIR ASSES DOWN AT THE PEACE TABLE AND MAKE PEACE.
DISCUSS THE ISSUES OF MOST IMPORTANCE TO EACH AND EVERY SIDE and WORK IT THROUGH.
Weren’t you cheering the Houthis for attacking a ship last week?
“Way to go Houthis”
You are the most f up peace activist.
I will need a link, Donald, to this alleged comment.
Because when I follow DV’s name link into Disqus, observe Donnatella’s Comments over the past 10 days, Alt-F “Find” the word “Houthis” :
a) I only get that word in the article titled Netanyahu’s National Security Advisor Says Israel Ready to Act Against Houthis,
and b) even the word “Houthi” itself only appears in the article title US Threatens to Kill Yemen Peace Deal Over Houthi Attacks on Red Sea Shipping.
In fact, looking back a MONTH, DV does not appear to have used the word “Houthi” in a Comment. Or even, “way to go”.
So, Donald, please provide the article title you allege in which Donnatella Versace Volatile made this Comment you quote. Lest you seem to be dishonest. Again.
there is no link – he tries his damned-nest to hurt Donna’s feelings but she is a big girl and you mess with her at your own peril.
right dear? yes little son, you are correct.
what
what
After a while and after going through the records of the past as well as the current behaviors , you realize that someone might look exactly like you anatmocially but they are not in a fashion or format think or perceive like you.Instead of animal who uses instincts and impulses ,they use the distortions and perversions of logic,memories,and histories . Dissimilarities between animal and them end there .
You can never trust them and allow them to the areas that are vitally important to you for safety,growth,and peace.You have to be just though, as you are to the rest of your people ,and impose peace on them.
The only issue that matters to the Palestinians and the prisoners in Gaza is their own state returned to them from Israelie conquest and occupation. The only thing that matters to Israel is the extermination of all the Arabs on what they believe should be greater Israel. This is non negociable on both sides.
Israel exists-get used to it.there is no “greater Israel”.
Definitions, jake “sully” sullivan. How (and where) ‘Israel’ is defined very much depends on who you ask.
1948 lines ? 1967 lines ? Current lines ? Biblical lines ?
As the saying goes, “If you want five answers to the question, ask four people who live in the area.”
There are no biblical lines. And even if they do exist, it needs a 3rd party arbitration to certify.
“Well, Judaism says everything from the Euphrates to the Mediterranean belongs to the Israelites. And Christianity independently agrees. And Islam disagrees which means Christianity and Judaism are correct…so…attestation by multiple sources !”
(imaginary; yet still not the dumbest religious-apologist rationale for something I have ever heard)
How convenient, Judaism says so and western sock puppets with a pocket full of cash also agree. Therefore it must be a fact.
Yes, Hezbollese forces – pull back from your border with the ASI so the IDF can enter Lebanese territory at full speed when they ‘wisely’ decide to open a second front.
And if you (and the Hamassian Regulars in Gaza) could go ahead and stand out in the open wearing Napoleonic-era brightly-coloured uniforms in long symmetrical firing lines, that would make this kind of lopsided warfare MUCH more fair for the overwhelmingly more powerful attacking forces.
So you prefer an all out Hezbollah war,or a long slow low intensity war.You prefer Israel to use nukes,destroy Lebanon and its masters. Hamas will find new patsies to throw away their lives,making their masters rich, and then start again.
Quit fantasizing about nukes getting dropped on Lebanon. That’s not happening.
I’m not sure how you can try (and fail) to read between the lines of what I said AND completely miss what I actually said.
My point is that certain self-proclaimed regional (ASI) or world (USA) ‘super-powers’ have this exceedingly queer habit of demanding that their enemies conform to rules and conventions that are only of benefit to the so-called ‘super-power’.
“Oh how UNFAIR it is that (Hezbollah, the Russian Federation) is allowed to position their military assets anywhere within their own borders that they want (while Desert Shield was Perfectly A-OK Of Course)…or that our vastly weaker enemies (post-2003 Iraq War II militas, the Talibanese) don’t make their military forces super-obvious for us to snipe from 1000’s of miles away !
“HOW are we supposed to easily kill our enemies if they don’t want to be easily killed by us ? This is against the rules we made for the game, guys ! C’mon !!!”
Nice try. Israel’s longtime goal is to seize the source of the Litani River. Water is the most valuable resource in the region.
One must hope that Hezbollah has acquired weapons that can ruin the Israeli airforce. Taking out and destroying this capability has to be the main focus.
Israel good,Hezbollah bad.
Clearly Israel is looking for a pretext to launch a war against Lebanon. If there isn’t a pretext then a false flag will be used.
Not at all-it would be extremely costly and dangerous in terms of lives and economics, and probably necessitate nuking.