After Ukraine’s failed counteroffensive, US and Ukrainian officials are looking for a new strategy for the war against Russia as political leadership in both nations is determined to keep the conflict going.
The New York Times reported on the discussions and said the US wants a more conservative strategy of Ukraine holding the territory it currently controls and building up its forces. The US strategy also involves Ukraine building up its military-industrial complex to become less reliant on Western aid.
US officials told the Times that Ukrainian officials have unrealistic expectations of what the US can continue to provide. “They are asking for millions of rounds of artillery, for example, from Western stockpiles that do not exist,” the report reads. “American officials say Ukraine will have to fight on a tighter budget.”
The report said the Ukrainians are looking to go on the attack in some way to get the world’s attention. US officials are open to supporting more long-range Ukrainian attacks on Crimea, which always risk a major Russian escalation.
To form a new strategy, the US has been dispatching a three-star general to Kyiv to spend lengthy periods of time in the Ukrainian capital, breaking from the policy of not sending military advisors to Kyiv. Lt. Gen. Antonio A. Aguto Jr., who oversees support of Ukraine from a base in Germany, has taken on the role.
The report said the goal of the US strategy, known as “hold and build,” would be to create enough of a threat to Russia that Moscow would be open to negotiations either next year or in 2025. But from Russia’s perspective, time is on their side, as it’s clear the West’s war fatigue is growing.
The US and its closest NATO allies discouraged peace talks in the early days of Russia’s invasion that could have resulted in a complete Russian withdrawal from the territory it captured in exchange for Ukrainian neutrality. This was recently confirmed by David Arakhamia, a member of Ukraine’s parliament who led the Ukrainian delegation to Istanbul during peace talks with Russia in March 2022.
Arakhamia also confirmed that then-Prime Minister Boris Johnson visited Kyiv in April 2022 and told President Volodymyr Zelensky that even if Kyiv was ready to sign a deal with Moscow, Ukraine’s Western backers were not. “When we returned from Istanbul, Boris Johnson came to Kyiv and said that we would not sign anything with them at all, and let’s just fight,” Arakhamia said.
Now, Ukraine stands to lose much more in any future peace deal as Russia has annexed the territory it controls in the oblasts of Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhia, and Kherson.
Are you bloody kidding me?…… I’m bloody exhausted with all this flipping sh-t! Give it a bloody rest already. Even Peace Activists need some flipping downtime….
Donna, I done did told you. Evil never sleeps.
“Angry red, drips from the sky and thru the puckish haze emerges, the hideous grotesque shape of man, standing naked, the nature of our beginning.”………
This was the answer to the question:
How can we justify the continuing money laundering after the loss became apparent?
Umm, you have to be a really slow learner to still think creating threats to Russia will turn out the way you hope.
And it ignores that there was a peace deal in 2022 that the US/UK kiboshed.
Lavrov works for the US/UK?
That would certainly explain a lot.
Do you bother to read this site?
He likes to pretend the negotiators were rouge and were negotiating things on their own without the principals being involved at all. Somehow Zelensky was unaware of Ukraine agreeing to things on an initialed (by both parties) draft.
“He likes to pretend the negotiators were rouge and were negotiating things on their own without the principals being involved at all.”
On the contrary. The principals are clearly involved both in telling the negotiators what they can give up and must demand, and in signing off on any agreement between the negotiators.
That doesn’t mean the negotiators are robots. They drive the best deal they can drive, then they go to their principals for approval, rejection, or changes.
With respect to the Russian demand for veto power over Ukrainian military operations, it’s possible that Zelenskyy told them they could give that up and then backed out afterward, or that he told them that they couldn’t give that up but they did so for draft purposes then kicked it up to him because there was an impasse otherwise, or that he just didn’t think any such demand would be made.
My GUESS is that it was the first of those three possibilities, and that he either intended it as a poison pill in the first place or was pressured by his western masters to back out.
But the fact remains that Lavrov rejected the draft agreement as so modified the day before Johnson even arrived in Kyiv, so all this nonsense about Johnson flying in at the last minute to kibosh the draft agreement is just that — nonsense.
With respect to the Russian demand for veto power over Ukrainian military operations, it’s possible that Zelenskyy told them they could give that up and then backed out afterward, or that he told them that they couldn’t give that up but they did so for draft purposes then kicked it up to him because there was an impasse otherwise, or that he just didn’t think any such demand would be made.
You keep ignoring the magnitude of that single issue. The fact that it was even allowed to be negotiated means Ukraine was willing to move on that issue. So, I’m sure there were parameters on how far each parties’ negotiators were allowed to go. No way the draft would have been initialed if those parameters were violated by either side. You downplay the significance of that draft being initialed to make your point which is my main disagreement with you. Someone is lying or someone didn’t negotiate in good faith.
Yep.
And every time I notice (usually when proofreading) that an Antiwar.com author has yet again ignored the indisputable fact of reality that Lavrov publicly, live, on television rejected the draft agreement on behalf of the Russian Federation, I send a note. That’s not the kind of correction I’d be entitled to make on my own authority.
You have it wrong. There was an agreement in March. Boris Johnson killed it. Then in April a different agreement was presented that Lavrov didn’t agree with:
There was a draft agreement between negotiators in Istanbul.
The negotiators then took it back to their principals for acceptance, rejection, or change.
Zelenskky wanted a change (no Russian veto power over Ukrainian military operations, just a majority vote of the guarantor states).
Lavrov publicly, live, on television, rejected the draft based on that change demand.
THEN Boris Johnson arrived in Kyiv.
On November 24, Ukrainian parliamentary deputy Davyd Arakhamia caused a stir when he said in a TV interview that during the peace talks between Russia and Ukraine held in Belarus and Turkey in February–March 2022, Moscow’s delegation offered to end the war in exchange for Kyiv vowing not to join NATO.
“They actually hoped until nearly the last moment that they could press us into signing this agreement, adopting neutrality. That was their biggest priority. They were willing to end the war if we took on neutrality, like Finland once did, and gave assurances that we wouldn’t join NATO. That was essentially the main point. Everything else was cosmetic and political embellishments about ‘denazification,’ the Russian-speaking population, blah blah blah,” Arakhamia said.
WEEKLY NEWSLETTER
When asked why Ukraine didn’t agree to Russia’s terms, Arakhamia was resolute:
First of all, to agree to this point, we would have to change the [Ukrainian] Constitution. Our path to NATO is written into the Constitution. Second of all, we did not and still do not trust the Russians to keep their word. This would only have been possible if we had security guarantees. We couldn’t sign something, walk away, everyone would breathe a sigh of relief, and then [Russia] would invade, only more prepared this time — because the first time they invaded, they were actually unprepared for us to resist so much. So we could only work [with them] if we were 100 percent confident that this wouldn’t happen a second time. And we don’t have that confidence.
Moreover, when we returned from Istanbul, Boris Johnson came to Kyiv and said that we wouldn’t sign anything with them at all, and that we should just fight.
“Moreover, when we returned from Istanbul, Boris Johnson came to Kyiv and said that we wouldn’t sign anything with them at all, and that we should just fight.”
Yes, he did.
The day after Lavrov publicly rejected the agreement.
Sorry, rejecting a reconfigured agreement that altered a tentative agreement is not the same as ending peace agreement negotiations, period. And Germany said Ukraine had to ask permission to sign anything.
“rejecting a reconfigured agreement that altered a tentative agreement is not the same as ending peace agreement negotiations, period”
True. And after Lavrov rejected the draft agreement, Johnson arrived to pressure against further negotiation.
Germany said all was up to the US. The US instigated the proxy war. They did not want peace and it has jackshit to do with Lavrov.
Did I say any differently?
The truth is awful enough without making shit up.
If we could, we would invite Lavrov for dinner. It would be lovely to host a person with intelligence.
Peace talks between Russia and Ukraine see progress as Lavrov suggests ‘hope for a ‘compromise
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/16/peace-talks-russia-ukraine-lavrov-zelensky/
Boris Johnson wanted no peace negotiations. He ended them.
What about the rest of the witnesses? They are liars! /s
What “witnesses?”
What happened happened. It is entirely possible to decry the US/UK/EU/NATO pressure on Ukraine without pretending that things which happened one way happened a different way.
Who pretended?
In the article I linked. Clearly they knew permission had to be granted by the US even though they agreed to terms.
Witnesses, including former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennet, Turkish foreign minister Mevlut Cavusoglu, Erdogan party leader Numan Kurtulmus and reports in the Ukrainian media about the activities of Boris Johnson, have all entered their testimony into the public record of the US and UK “blocking” negotiations and putting an end to the tentative settlement to the war that had been initialled by both Moscow and Kiev.
In an October 20 interview, former German chancellor Gerhard Schröder, who, at the request of Ukraine, played a central role in the Istanbul talks, added his testimony that, in the end, “the Ukrainians did not agree to peace because they were not allowed to. They first had to ask the Americans about everything they discussed.”
Boris Johnson is not an American — he renounced his US citizenship years ago.
Now you’re just being ridiculous. He’s a lapdog. And what Schröder said makes sense, they made a tentative agreement, went back and the US said no, so they sent Ukraine back with shit Russia would never agree to, sabotaging, and then Boris killed the idea of negotiations altogether.
You just repeated pretty much what I said … after calling it ridiculous.
No you claimed Lavrov stopped the deal.
I did not say Lavrov “stopped the deal.” I said Lavrov “rejected the draft.” There’s a difference. Lavrov was willing to continue negotiating. It wasn’t until the next day, when Johnson arrived in Kyiv, that the Ukrainian interest in negotiations seemed to disappear.
Lavrov rejected the draft because Zelenskyy insisted that it be changed to require a majority of guarantor states, rather than unanimous consent for — in other words, a Russian veto on — military operations and exercises on Ukrainian soil.
Was that change an intentional “poison pill,” pushed on Zelenskyy by the US/UK/EU/NATO? Possibly.
On the other hand, without that change, the draft amounted to an agreement that Ukraine return to its prior status as a Russian imperial satrapy, so maybe no pressure was required.
I don’t think neutrality non Nato is defined as your belief.
“Russia has final say over all military operations on Ukrainian territory” is not “neutrality.”
True but Nato is not neutrality.
And the chances of Ukraine getting into NATO were zero.
Snd yet they put it into their constitution?
Bloomberg:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-12-06/oil-prices-how-russia-punched-an-11-billion-hole-in-west-s-sanctions-regime
You don’t need more understanding of economics than you might get in a high school introductory class to know that it’s a fool’s errand to attempt to use sanctions to prevent a major producer from selling needed products to a world of willing buyers. Well, you shouldn’t.
Amazing how they ignore the human capital they are wasting.
What trash we have called leaders, the nations elite. If they had only some common sense, but they don’t even have that. The only value they know is more money, characterless, spineless pig-heads. They should hang from the tallest trees.
Defense of Ukraine IS common sense. There’s a lot of Russian “human capital” laying in the fields and cities of Ukraine. Perhaps you should ask Putin to withdrawal?
https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-lost-87-ground-troops-had-before-war-ukraine-cnn-2023-12?op=1
Any rational person by now knows the Ukraine is in ruins, a failed nation, Zelensky is running around begging for more money and bullets. Ukrainians are using old men, women and children to protect what is left of Ukraine and are destroying and put in ruins what is left in the process. That you call common sense??? I call it insane.
Common sense statesmen would have avoided the catastrophe, Ukraine would now be neutral, at peace and prospering like Austria and Switzerland and now look what the USA/NATO accomplished. President Putin and Russia won and the thinking world knows it. The demented Biden and the insanely stupid Democrats and Republicans lost, Biden lost the election unless the voters are bat-shit stupid and crazy.
Recall the circus with Zelensky and the Ukrainian flag in congress and the standing ovations for Zelensky? Are you proud of Nancy and Kamala waving the Ukrainian flag in the American congress?
The Russians know what war is, they had real realistic goals, they expected a sane and rational administration in DC, they found out, there was not and is not rational, competent government. Biden is busy and concerned with his next Botox treatment, not his mental condition.
Hahaha. Calm down and take a breath! You are absolutely wrong with all of your Putin propaganda. Have a Scotch and rethink your BS.
I think it’s a really bad facelift, fwiw.
https://johnmenadue.com/ukraine-is-the-latest-neocon-disaster/
Jeffrey Sachs Jun.29, 2022
President Putin is a competent and great stateman with an 80% approval rating, he will be reelected in March and Biden and the Democrats will be the losers in Nov. 2024 unless the voters are nuts.
Wrong.
And I was right when I called you a Putin fluffer before. Lol
I trust my judgement, I judge Putin based on what is public knowledge, just as I judge Biden.
Biden, the demented old man, with decades in public office never grew intellectually and spiritually, he was and still is a little man, after money, and without a soul. Look at the people he picked for his cabinet, he counted votes, not competence and character, people who would serve the nation.
Putin who has pulled Russia and the Russian people up, he is a servant of the people and the country. He is a real patriot, look at the people who serve the nation with him, Lavrov compared to Blinken. Putin has a well deserved better than 80% approval rating after years of serving the Russian people.
After three years in office and decades in congress what does Biden have to show?
He is a known warmonger.
What brought this on was the coup in 2014. Obama and Biden have blood on their hands for causing the civil war between Kiev and the Russian speaking Ukraine citizens. For a while after the coup, Biden was the Tsar of Ukraine, directing events. Obama said not to underestimate the ability of Joe to “f*ck things up”. Well, Mr. “Hope and Change” certainly had that in his persona. Libya comes to mind. The “surge”that extended the war in Afghanistan also comes to mind.
“The Maidan revolution of 2013-2014 began on November 21, 2013 when Ukraine’s then Kremlin-backed president Viktor Yanukovych suspended talks on an association agreement with the European Union that had been in the pipeline for months, in favour of closer ties with Moscow.
Moscow hailed the decision of the former Soviet republic and welcomed it into a customs union with other former Soviet republics.
But pro-EU Ukrainians were horrified.
Hundreds of demonstrators gathered that night at Ukraine’s central Independence Square, known as Maidan, to protest Yanukovych’s decision.
A brutal crackdown on the protests days later caused them to flare.”
That is from a Barron’s article. (Not exactly a lefty magazine!)
And most here know that Yanukovych f**ked-off to Moscow out of fear after the crackdowns.
Pure propaganda.
No, it is not common sense, only for you if you are a war profiteer which our national economic and political leaders are. Most likely Lloyd Austin is on a retainer by Raytheon. We have a totally corrupt government, scandals after scandals. Wake up, the Ukraine is nothing but rubble, or would you say the Ukrainians are better off now? Now you want to continue to defend rubble by creating more rubble.
Ukraine is another failed state, like Libya, Iraq, and Afghanistan and others, soon the US will join them.
To throw good money after bad is about as stupid as it gets for the average working people. It does benefit the top 10% or so, not the working middle class, they pay the bill.
After WWI the forced humiliating Treaty of Versailles wiped out the German middle class, their wealth, property, and businesses and tilled the soil for Hitler. The devastated middle class made Hitler possible, he was one of them, they are the kind of people who support Trump now, they have real and justified grievances just no real leadership like the civil rights movement had. The nations elite let them down, they only want more money for themselves, greed motivates them.
You’re so far off base it’s not even worth responding. The American “middle class” doesn’t support Trump either. The white-trash and racists do. Check with your Russian handlers and make sure they provide you with accurate info in the future.
I agree with what you say here, but I think the middle class people in America who are supporting Trump are kidding themselves if they think Trump is going to save them.
I agree with you, they have no credible leadership, to believe Trump makes them feel better, there is nowhere else to go. Both parties let the middle class down, many don’t even have affordable health insurance. He talks like he is one of them, he is a good conman and sometimes, accidentally he spills the beans and tells a truth. He has no coherent policies either, he is all about Donald and nothing else, a narcissist.
Hmm, interesting.
The top news channels in Russia just started talking about hanging enemies of Russia.
You’re just repeating Russian propaganda sh!t here.
The only chance the U.S. gets its goal of eternal war is for Ukraine to retreat and go into defensive mode and become a business for munitions. Then they can shell back and forth for eternity. But that’s just a last hope. More likely Ukraine is done. But it’s the sole goal that drives U.S. thought. If Ukraine can’t continue to be a money redistribution scam for military contractors, it becomes useless to them anyway. Despite what nonsense they feed the dweebs, they know full well Russia isn’t dumb enough to want to govern hostile lands with further expansion.
Then Russia should pull out of Ukrainian territory?
Lol
Then Ukraine needs to leave Donbas and Crimea alone?
I’ll agree with Donbas but nope on Crimea.
If we actually had any, they need to dispatch a diplomat not a general from a military that goes from fiasco to fiasco.
Recognizing just how weak the US eternal war system is, we can all agree to begin paying down credit cards and restricting purchases to necessities that are not wrapped in plastic we are expected to dispose of.
We are heading for a fall and it’s frightening.
The nation needs a reeducation to learn again how to live decent life in an economical way, without the unneeded throwaway things that fill the nations garages while the cars are parked outside.
I forgot, our economy depends on CC purchases, because the MIC earns the real money in the form of profits.
You hit the nail on the head, That’s why people will begin paying off credit cards and planting gardens.
The US strategy, known as “hold and build?” …Wait! Is that like “Biden’s Build Back Better Plan?” …What was that about by the way? Did he build infrastructure or civilization? …No? …BIDEN BUILT WARS BETTER?
The late 2021 “Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act” appropriated $110 billion for roads/bridges, $66 billion for rail, $7.5 billion for electric vehicle chargers, and $73 billion for electric/grid infrastructure.
How much of that actually gets efficiently spent on those things is another question, of course.
I haven’t seen any of it happening.
You need a magnifying glass to find the crumbs, that is all they allocated over 10 year period.
Here’s modern country building style
http://www.china.org.cn/photos/2023-12/12/content_116873203_2.htm
More importantly, WHEN is it spent. Money can be appropriated all to h*ll.
Looks like on paper they allocated it over a ten year span, they just don’t mention the 10 year time frame. That is not much when the discretionary defense spending is more than a trillion in a fiscal year.
NYT’s Neocons must have watched the Garland Nixon show:
https://www.youtube.com/live/pI6ISsAOiYM?si=Ljcpv-3ZjwLGvtK7
Strategies must always be based on relative power. If your opponent is known to have more manpower and potentially, or actually more power to produce weaponry, then there are only two strategies. Negotiation or a desperate offensive/counteroffensive.
Maybe the Biden neocons knew it but in their arrogance they refused to believe it, delusion of grandeur is known to do this to people.
Looks like they lost.
Biden is taking hostages to get what he wants, and little details like Congress not approving sending more arms to Ukraine won’t stop him from continuing to send arms to Ukraine. This recently from CNN:
“Administration officials say without new approval from Congress for more aid, the US will be forced to tap its own stockpiles, potentially impairing American readiness. ”
Biden is right, dictators must be stopped, and he is one.
Another US General, who has never fought in a “real war” against a peer/near peer enemy, or even against one capable of fighting back, arriving to “advise” Ukraine on strategy. The blind leading the blind. Why in the world would anyone listen to another US wannabe amateur?
These beribboned clowns had their chance to show “the world” what they could “accomplish” for 20 years in Afghanistan and Iraq. And besides world class powerpoint presentations, losing uncounted amounts of weapons, devastating numerous wedding parties, “righteously striking” children and goats, and lying before congress, they accomplished nothing.
The Ukrainians would be better off asking the Taliban for military advice.
These clowns accomplished huge disasters where ever you look. They are the same people in control of the European governments in UK, Germany and France and the USA.
How else is it possible to have such incompetent governments in all those nations at the same time? I would add Sweden and Finland, both had a one time leader to win elections to give up the neutrality and request NATO membership. NATO is a sinking ship, why would they give up neutrality without public debate? It really smells of corruption. The US political and economical elite is known to meddle in other nations elections as well as they do at home in the USA.
“After Ukraine’s failed counteroffensive, US and Ukrainian officials are looking for a new strategy for the war against Russia as political leadership in both nations is determined to keep the conflict going.”
Hey Dave D., Why does it always have to be about Ukraine and the West? It was Russia who invaded a sovereign country. No difference with Israel invading Palestine and all of your articles are fueling support for Hamas and Palestine.
So for balanced/objective journalism, how about something like this as an example:
“After Russian failed invasion of Ukraine, Putin and Kremlin officials are looking for a new strategy for the war against Ukraine as political leadership within Russia is determined to keep the conflict going.”
Because they too, are determined to keep the conflict going. Heck, where is the entirety of their Army right now?
Nah, that would be too antiwar. We won’t see articles like this from you here.
I mean, i have been visiting and reading antiwar.com since 2001. It is the reason I left the Republican party and became an independent. I have valued the objectivity of this site and I was getting a lot of that until you came in and the Ukraine war kicked off. Now this has become an anti US site. I’ll still come here to counter the pro dictators/anti US idiots but you are making it hard. BTW, I used to recommend this site to many folks, especially in the military, now I won’t dare doing that. F NO.
First time I’ve ever heard anyone characterize Antiwar.com as “objective.” It doesn’t pretend to be. It’s very much a viewpoint-based site, and a big part of that viewpoint (apparently big enough to often outweigh another big part, “foreign policy realism,” lately) is Rothbardianism, which tends to assign a special ring of hell to all things US-related.
though it has never been like this before. It has just gone off rails lately.
But that’s good to now. I appreciate the clarification.
You should be one of the lead writers here. I’d take your anarchism 100 times over. At least you equally call all ideologies’ BS out.
It takes one to know one.
BTW, Don, what is your ideology?
Do you support the massacre of the Palestinian people, if you don’t please explain why not. Have the courage to show your color and why you believe what you believe, and based on what?
Shut up and type.
That’s your job.
Don, Tim, Jake (all three reside in you) just be cool. I know you can do it. You just cannot stop being you, popping up everywhere.
I think before I type.
I take notice, I got under your skin. Sorry about that, but you asked for it.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I’m unlikely to ever be a lead writer here. I’ve got my own separate writing gig. Antiwar.com gets (and sometimes chooses to publish) the foreign policy related material I produce in that gig, but I don’t think I’d do a good job of writing all foreign policy all the time. And we’ve got some fine writers getting the job done.
It is an objective point of view based on reliable actual facts and a moral compass.
The government in Tel Aviv and DC are trained and paid liars spreading the official narrative removed from any rational thinking, even there outrageous lies are obviously unbelievable.
I recall the Israeli spokesperson Regev several years back because he was an outstanding atrocious liar, I forgot what he was lying about, but never forgot his audacity.
Thomas, can you name one Biden government spokes person you would trust to be honest, for whom you would put your hand in the fire, just one?
Shut up, fluffer.
I got a good / better response from Thom Knapp.
Your comment is just a Russian fart in the wind.
Did he mention Russia in his post? If he did, I must have missed it. Imaginary?
Did you just make this up or is it real journalism?
“After Russian failed invasion of Ukraine, Putin and Kremlin officials are looking for a new strategy for the war against Ukraine as political leadership within Russia is determined to keep the conflict going.”
I call you up on objectivity
On what do you base the failed Russian invasion?
How do you know they are looking for a new strategy, who told you that?
Why do they want to keep the conflict going? What would be the reason and benefit? Russia has won the war.
No good journalist would leave so many open questions.
Russia won the war, even MSM tells the public that Ukrainians failed and Zelensky is asking for more money and they are short of real soldiers.
Gaza, to make it short, Biden talks out of both sides of his mouth, Botox Joe must go. This nation can’t take any more, he and the neocons are too stupid among many other things.
THIRD PARTY. It is the only way.
Just not likely, the people in power will not let it happen. The Citizen United decision confirmed the corruption of our government, all three branches, not anyone better than the corruption in Ukraine, or Afghanistan and others, just as bad.
“The report said the goal of the US strategy, known as “hold and build,” would be to create enough of a threat to Russia that Moscow would be open to negotiations either next year or in 2025.”
Russia has always been open to negotiations. It was Zelensky, backed by the U.S. and Britain, who said no to any negotiations as long as Putin is President of Russia.
The pit that the U.S. has dug for Russia is the very same pit that the U.S. will fall into.
How about asking for negotiations before we all go bankrupt!
Zelensky wants all your money!
Poster: “Slovo Putina.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/12/13/ukraine-has-figured-out-a-new-way-of-winning-battles-start-by-grounding-russias-drones/?sh=7521a43e4c55
US, Ukraine Looking for Capitulation in War With Russia