White House National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said Tuesday that Israel will continue to hurt “innocent civilians” in its onslaught on Gaza.
“This is war. It is combat. It is bloody, ugly and it’s going to be messy and innocent civilians are going to be hurt going forward,” Kirby said when asked if the US thought Israel’s bombardment was a disproportionate response to the Hamas attack on southern Israel.
“I wish I could tell you something different and wish that there wasn’t going to happen, but it is going to happen. And that doesn’t make it right, doesn’t make it dismissible,” Kirby added.
He also reiterated the US’s opposition to a ceasefire in Gaza, claiming it would only benefit Hamas. Both Kirby and Secretary of State Antony Blinken said they were open to the idea of a “humanitarian pause” to allow more aid to enter Gaza.
Kirby insisted the US would continue to urge Israel to minimize civilian casualties, but Israel has only increased its bombardment of Gaza. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Tuesday that airstrikes launched the day before were the hardest yet.
While Kirby framed civilian casualties as a fact of modern war, Israel’s bombardment has been particularly brutal, as attacks have been leveling entire neighborhoods. According to Gaza’s Health Ministry, after 18 days of bombing, at least 5,791 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza, including 2,360 children.
Kirby cast doubt on the casualty numbers coming out of Gaza since the enclave is ruled by Hamas. But the casualty rate is believable as the Israeli side has boasted about the scope of its bombardment. In just the first six days of its onslaught, Israeli forces dropped 6,000 bombs on Gaza, one of the most densely populated places on earth. In comparison, the US dropped 7,423 bombs on Afghanistan in 2019, the most since the US started keeping a tally in 2006.
“Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind.” – JFK
Bloody well right! I am not in the bloody mood to get my ass nuked!
Nukes, missiles, they are all instruments of death. Be happy that you’re not in Gaza.
We are happy we are not in Gaza but if we don’t stop the bloody mess over there, it will eventually come to us.
And we would well deserve it.
Yes – and the very clowns inviting such calamity would clutch their pearls and ask, without shred of self-awareness, “My stars, what did WE ever DO to DESERVE this ???”
Hamas says 22 captives have been killed in Israel’s bombardment of Gaza, which has killed at least 5,000 Palestinians, the vast majority of whom are civilians.
This is confirming the point you made previously about Israel’s indiscriminate bombing possibly killing hostages. You were spot on.
It’s about power and control, not rescue.
Why would the Israelis even want to invade Gaza when all they have to do is sit back and let the bombs fly? I’m sure some of those killed were actually Hamas fighters, but probably not the very young and very old. Anyway, we don’t normally worry those groups when we or our friends are doing the killing.
Bombing won’t get at many terrorists in their tunnels.
What a dreadful existence you must have. Hope you’re not a parent.
Oh see my post above. Gaza City is below sea level so there is talk of turning it into a lake.
“we don’t normally worry those groups when we or our friends are doing the killing” – that is because of the racism.
Well.what do you expect them to do?Give us your sage opinion.
“Well.what do you expect [Israel] to do?Give us your sage opinion.”
Stop its genocidal war crime that is mainly killing innocent Gazan civilians, obviously.
They have no wish to stop the killing because their idea is to cleanse this piece of land of Arabs and give it to new settlers.
Indeed. The Israeli government feels their citizens need living space. There’s an elegant and extremely appropriate word in German but at the moment, it escapes me…
Lebensraum
And asking me that justifies what they are doing?
By the way, I was talking about the hostages. So, you’re ok with them getting killed too? I guess, between us, I care more about senseless deaths on both sides.
Once again AIPAC’s investments have paid off. Luckily they provide a list of traitors to vote against next November right on their website https://candidates.aipacpac.org/page/featured/
I’d like to see a list of those that didn’t make the AIPAC investments list. I did not see Thomas Massie’s name or Betty McCollum’s name on the AIPAC list. Any others?
Mary, I’d be willing to bet the following:
Rashida, Cori, Ayanna, Summer, Ilhan.
Not sure, unfortunately
No question, it is sad that the children get killed or hurt, because of the action of adults. It is going to get worst before it gets better. Hamas in not going to quit and Israel is not going to give up.
Well I hope you have the same attitude of shrugging your shoulders at innocent deaths when the terror attacks hit home and abroad. The world can see what is happening and they are not happy. The US empire is hated for a reason, because it is evil, not because of our freedoms.
And what is going to stop this war? Tell me how you would stop it?
The US can stop funding it. Take a stand, no more civilian deaths.
And that will stop this war? No they will keep fighting. And as long as they keep fighting, civilians will die on both sides.
Yes it would because the US has been subsidizing their military. If they want to commit ethnic cleansing, let them do it on their own dime until they run out.
Between the Gazans and Israelis, it isn’t a war, it’s a slaughter (by Israel)
The families of 1200 citizens of Israel will disagree with you.
How about that foreign concept of FAIRNESS for the Palestinian people, both those of Gaza and the West Bank? Have you a problem with that?
History did not begin on Oct. 7.
“History did not begin on Oct. 7.”
Oh yes it did!
LOL! Exactly like “history began” the day Putin unleashed his Special Operations” units!
Thomas I like your term “Big Bang”. That is exactly what happens with certain events. Oct 7 was a Big Bang between Israel and Palestinians. Only time will tell how it will end.
Of course History did not start on Oct 7, but a turning point did. I don’t have a crystal ball to tell you how this change in the curve will end. But I don’t see Palestinian coming out better off because of this war. Making your enemies hate you even more is never a good thing. And that is what Hamas did with their attack and that is what Israel is doing with their counter attack.
It wasn’t even possible for the current Israeli government to hate Palestinians more.
What about the West Bank? Is Hamas present there? No, it is not. But the slaughter of Palestinians by the IDF and settlers continues there.
Oh yes it is possible for more hatred. And as I said, the attack on Oct 7 just made things worst. And don’t forget, Hamas is mostly made up of Palestinians. I’m sure many in Israel don’t care if a Palestinian is from the Gaza, the West Bank or is a member of Hamas. They just see them as the enemy who attacked them on Oct 7.
Now, I am not saying the Israel is 100 % right, they are not. But what I am saying is Hamas attack will make life worst for the Palestinians.
No, Palestinians aren’t going to come out better off because of this war.
Nor was making Palestinians better off any part of Hamas’s calculations. In fact, they WANT Palestinians to be worse off … and they want those Palestinians to blame Israel instead of Hamas for how much worse off they are. Because until a couple of weeks ago, the Palestinians in Gaza were increasingly blaming Hamas for how bad off they were, and Hamas was having to attack protesters and execute dissidents just to hold on to power.
I got to agree with you.
What you say about Hamas is to a certain degree true, but then there’s the issue of the Palestinians in the West Bank, who have their possessions and property destroyed, who are routinely beaten and shot by settlers, while the Israeli authorities look on. Hamas isn’t responsible for policies which affect the people in the West Bank, but the same bullshit is happening there.
I agree 100%. I wsn’t trying to excuse the Israeli regime for anything at all. As with most wars, it’s a waste of time to try to find “good guys” at either side’s policy/command level.
Wars, very rarely have one “good guys”. The civil war is good example. I think the North was the “good guys” for crushing the slave holding South. Meanwhile my friends in the South think the South was the “good guys” for defending their States rights.
Back to this war, I am not in Israel, but my gut tells me despite what the official position of Israel, the average Israelis sees all Palestinians as the enemy. This is not good. When and if the IDF invades Gaza I see a very bad outcome for both sides. The hate between Palestinians and Israelis has not been this high since 1948.
“when asked if the US thought Israel’s bombardment was a disproportionate response” What would be a proportional response to the Hamas attack?
Not killing masses of civilians for revenge and ethnic cleansing. Is that so hard?
I can imagine Ed Murrow broadcasting: “This – is Gaza.”
Brings back some memories also of Cronkite
And the inestimable Peter Jennings.
Back when reporters reported, Sevareid, as well.
As Edith Bunker said “Those were the days”
“John Kirby Israel will continue to hurt “innocent civilians””
There is now a very good case to bring war crime charges against Joey Biden, Anthony Blinken, Victoria Nuland, and John Kirby.
The world needs new Nuremberg trials before these war criminals are hung.
The truth comes out. Yes, the US is evil.
The most politically incorrect fact of the hour:
International law doesn’t accord Israel the right to self-defense.
https://jacobin.com/2018/07/gaza-protests-israel-occupation-norman-finkelstein
“International Law let Hitler kill millions. International law did not present Mussolini’s actions in Ethiopia,nor has it prevented China’s conquest and genocide in Tibet. Russia is still in Ukraine.
Nor has international law kept Israel within its borders.
On the other hand, international law did set those borders. And create Israel.
As you very well know-borders change all the time.Its a question of defendable borders vs borders that will give the other guy a fair shake.
Yes, borders do change all the time, by agreement between states.
Or, in the case of a state created entirely by, and totally reliant on, a UN resolution, by the UN amending that resolution or accepting some claim that the aforementioned renegotiation has taken place.
Can you even provide an example of the Israeli regime ASSERTING any borders other than those set in UNR 181, let alone any involved party accepting said assertion?
International law did not set those borders. You keep insisting that UNGA Resolution 181 somehow has the force of law. It does not. As I repeatedly point out, General Assembly resolutions are considered merely recommendations by the UN itself.
In straightforward language explaining the process to students of the Model UN:
Emphasis added. Article 10 is here.
The Security Council did not adopt Resolution 181. And it wouldn’t have the force of law even if UNSC had adopted it. The UN has no authority to either create or officially recognize a nation. It can, of course, decide to accept or reject applicants for membership, but that is a different and separate thing.
The Security Council approved the forwarding of Israel’s application for membership to the General Assembly on the agreed to precondition that Israel would accept the borders set in UNR 181.
If UNR does not set Israel’s borders, then Israel is, at the VERY least, not a UN member state.
Israeli membership was granted based on complex and rather fuzzy negotiations and agreements. There was no explicit requirement that Israel accept the borders proposed by the partition plan.
I think you’re bobbing and weaving here. You’ve made claims that do not appear, to me, to be supported either by the UN Charter itself or by documentation I’ve been able to find. It could be a research failure on my part, of course, but I think it’s your burden to present evidence for your claim — and you haven’t.
You not liking historical facts does not make them no longer historical facts.
But by all means, don’t let me get in the way of you believing what you want to believe because it’s what you want to believe.
This is the most full-of-shit post from you in this whole exchange. You made claims you can’t support and all you have left is snark. You can do much better than this — and you should.
Israel exists because of UNR 181.
Israel’s borders are defined in UNR 181, and Israel agreed to those borders as a condition of the Security Council endorsing their application for UN membership.
Those are facts.
You don’t have to like them. I don’t have to like them. The current Israeli regime doesn’t have to like them. They’re facts whether anyone likes them or not.
Now, you’re just repeating yourself without the evidence I’ve asked for. Last post on this: Show me evidence for your claim that the Security Council made acceptance of the UNGA 181 border proposal a condition for endorsing the application. Persuasive evidence must be actual UNSC documentation. I don’t think it exists.
The minutes of the 207th plenary meeting make it clear beyond any shadow of a doubt that UNR 181 was, and was accepted by Israel as, the sole and entire basis for UN recognition of Israel.
https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/646509?ln=en
I’ll read them carefully when I have time.
What then happens if the internal document recently leaked, dealing with the expulsion of the Gaza population to the Sinai to live in the desert, is put into play via forceful purging of said population from Gaza. How will the Security Council interpret that?
I do believe that a segment of the Israeli leadership is in fact considering how such an ejection could be carried out, in which case UNR 181 would amount to a pile of crap, no?
Not asking this in response to the thread, but for myself, given what you have said about 181.
Seems to me if Israel expels or attempts to expel, the Palestinians from Gaza, all bets should be off re Israel’s membership in the UN.
Genocide? Another misused term. Are there no more Tibetans in Tibet? Are there still Filipinos in the Philippines or Hawaiians in Hawaii?
“Russia is still in Ukraine” – Ukraine was created by criminal Bolshevik gang on Russian land. That’s why “Russia is still in Ukraine”. All towns in eastern and southern Ukraine were built by Russians and even now they are populated mostly by Russians. Ports Odessa and Nikolaev were built on Russian monarchs’ order after the defeat of Turks. Before Bolshevism, no one ever mentioned those lands as Ukrainian. Thanks to Americans who installed a neo-Nazi regime in Kiev and started a civil war in Ukraine, now those lands are returning back to Russia.
Brilliant.
Israel has the right to self defense. Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank have the right to have the concentration camp liberated, the Palestinians set free. Just like the Jews were liberated from the camps. I cannot imagine being born in that concentration camp, living a life under the gun, never knowing anything else. I suspect I would have gone mad.
Or someone shows up at your door step to tell you that God promised to give him your house. He then proceeds to kill your children because you didn’t leave and makes you his slave. Then he kills you because you fought back and calls it “self defense.” That would make me mad too. https://youtu.be/0Aasvey1Em4?si=wh23gK7M-kwE1RH3
Is anybody home in DC?…. Since when has killing innocent people been the norm or acceptable?! Collateral damage? I do not choose to be repetitive but I do find our/US way of thinking entirely off center.
American “exceptionalism “ alive and well just as “freedom and democracy is embracing the world as long you don’t object to our “ freedom and democracy “ . “ Money for nothing and the chicks for free”.Hey man, great to be in America huh? Predator low life’s Buffet and Munger are watching the stocks of Raytheon and failed Boeing to make a killing (sarcasm).
“Since when has killing innocent people been the norm or acceptable?!” If the “innocent people” are Palestinians, since always. Aaron Matte’ called Biden, “Joe Genocide.”
It`s been the norm for the US since God was a lad .
Here is a small window into the Gazan/Hamas culture. This is an actual recording of a Hamas terrorist phoning his parents in Gaza on October 7:
https://videoidf.azureedge.net/9f3e1e9f-4c64-4de2-9f1b-b5ee464a9717
Hello
Hi dad
I’m calling you from Palestine
Open my WhatsApp now and you’ll see the killed people
See how many I killed with my bare hands. Your son killed Jews
God should look after you
Dad. I’m talking to you on a Jewess’ phone
I killed her and I killed her husband
I killed 10 with my own hands
Dad. Open my WhatsApp and see how many I killed
I killed 10…10! Their blood is on my hands. Let me speak with mom.
I wish I was with you
Mom. Your son is a hero. Kill, kill,kill
Kill them…
My mother gave birth to me for Islam
A son excitedly calling his parents to brag about all the Jews that he has murdered…and his parents are so proud of him
How anyone can trust Israeli criminal regime? It is not much different from Kiev regime.
I know you get most of your information from Der Sturmer but do your own investigations
or Kiev.
Or Washington regime. Or Moscow regime. Or London regime. Or Beijing regime. Or Paris regime. Or Pyongyang regime. Etc., etc., etc.
Or an old Native American Tribe regime.
Or the regime embraced in the opening scenes of the Movie 2001.
Like Bibi said about many of the Palestinians being killed were terrorists? Many, of over 6,000, means that a lot of innocents died so he had no problem with the rest not being terrorists. That’s lot of dead people to be flippant about. Don’t pretend this shit is one sided.
Have you read this?
Israel’s Kristallnacht
https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/10/25/israels-kristallnacht/
Thanks for the post.
Thanks. It brings me back to that 3 day warning from Egypt before the attack. “They had been waiting for this” is very applicable for this present-day situation. The previous altercations with Hamas just didn’t produce enough outrage to allow for the complete leveling of Gaza. The number killed in the Hamas attack did. Game on.
Here’s a large window into Israeli/Zionist culture:
https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/israels-culture-of-deceit
Israel lied about 40 beheaded babies. It lied about the hospital bombing and it lied about a humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
In fact, former PM Yair Lapid openly admitted that objective reporting “serves Hamas”:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1716837744612151480
So much for Israel’s credibility, eh?
Not bad. Pretty much everything you said here is a lie. You should apply for a job with the Hamas Ministry of Information
Hey, when your own bigwigs tell us objective reporting “serves Hamas”, the game is over.
You lose.
So next time you lie, try harder. Why don’t you show the entire clip.
https://youtu.be/gQQ7EvR6GPU
Yep we r seeing in real time the lies of incessant lying by the state of israel
Claims of pure integrity like the 40 beheaded babies. Hamas operatives talking amongst themselves about how pij bombed the hospital mass rape and various documents found on hamas members
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0ee9e00dd3ec409b621cbdbdb10f2511e50c1f997ee7e92ced66efe3cd8cae7c.jpg
And we should believe this why?
Believe what you want.
Does that same website also have the United Flight 93 recordings of all the people who called their loved ones with an equally convincing, “Hi Dad, it’s me, your son, John William Smith – you believe it’s me, right ?”
Because I’m as equally inclined to believe this transcript you’ve posted, as I am to believe those U-93 calls were genuine.
Your inclinations are of no interest to me. Fortunately the perpetrators were so proud of their heroic slaughter that they documented and broadcast it in real time.
“Your inclinations are of no interest to me.”
Nor should they be; I’m expressing my doubt that the ‘recording’ and subsequent transcript are legitimate.
(BTW my wife loves your ’25’ album, even after I convinced her you wrote “Hello” about me after we broke up)
Time is an illusion.
Thankfully, it’s also on my side.
Nice tune!
6000 bloody bombs on GAZA??? Under Israel’s guidance??!
Is this another kind of holocaust?…
And that was just the first 6 days.
No, it depends on the victim.
It’s only a “holocaust” if someone else is doing it, to the US and Israeli elite.
By holocaust they mean the killed Ashkenazi. Killed Slavs are not counted as holocaust, though the number of killed Slav civilians was much greater.
Who’s “they?” The “elites?”
In the US, at least, a lot of emphasis is placed on Roma, gender/sexual minorities, the mentally disabled, and religious minorities like the Jehovah’s Witnesses as victims of the holocaust. I’ve seen a lot more pink triangle t-shirts than Star of David t-shirts among “holocaust remembrance” couture.
Glad I don’t live where you do! Where we live nobody protests anything beyond the price of fuel and property tax add-ons.
Charity and assistance are provided by the local churches and volunteers.
The wider world is ignored to the degree that is possible.
And in conversation, we tend to avoid both religion and politics. Voting, also not discussed, takes care of the latter – because it, like religion, is nobody’s business!
Well, my street sounds a lot like where you live.
But I live near a city with a major university, at which my wife works, so there’s always plenty of protest action.
And, back in the day, I lived in St. Louis and was frequently part of said protest action. I lived about four miles from Ferguson, you may have heard of it. Moved away before that particular unpleasantness, but a number of friends were there for it — including an anti-Zionist Jewish friend who usually did the “legal observer” thing to video police abuses and so forth. Hedy Epstein, whom I did not personally know but saw a time or two, was in on those protests as well.
My husband is Jewish, my best friend is Jewish… Do not stain those who are excellent human beings WITH YOUR:
CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.
Unfortunately America and it’s European lapdogs don’t really have much moral authority on this issue given the past 22 years of murder and mayhem (really 100+) perpetrated against the developing world by Western military and intelligence establishments. The rest of the world is quickly turning away from the American Empire. De dollarization is the only answer and way to avoid a nuclear war. The world needs to stand up and reject the USD as a reserve currency and the Empire will collapse from within. This will also give the American people the impetus they need to clean house, so to speak.
The Hamas attack has had the effect of opening the eyes of the world as to the conditions under which the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank live, the cruelty Israel can inflict, the stone heart of the Biden administration as well as previous administrations. Too long the West has allowed the concentration camp in Gaza to exist. For 75 yeas long.
“The Hamas attack has had the effect of opening the eyes of the world as to the conditions under which the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank live”
I’m not seeing much evidence that any such thing has happened. I’ve not encounterd so much as a single person whose position on the Arab-Israeli conflict seems to have changed since October7 or because of the current situation.
Hundreds of thousands of people have hit the streets.
. . . in Gaza, most were wounded or dead when they hit the street.
I’m talking global protest. The msm is suppressing that news for the most part.
Thousands of people have hit the streets.in the fall of their collapsed homes and apartments.from the indiscriminate bombing of Gaza. I wonder what they are thinking!!!!!
Worldwide protests. Hundreds of thousands in NY, the same in the UK. People in France etc
Tens of thousands demonstrate in Germany against the genocide in Gaza
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/24/eobp-o24.html
Canadian unions urge pro-war Trudeau government to push for a “ceasefire” in Gaza
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/25/krrd-o25.html
Thousands protest across New Zealand against Israel’s genocide in Gaza
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/25/lvlq-o25.html
Australian workers and youth speak out: “The people of Palestine are a symbol for workers everywhere”
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/25/wgtw-o25.html
Millions throughout the world protest Israeli war crimes
What’s happening:
Thousands protest in Australia against Israel’s war on Palestinians
Thousands protest in Malaysia and Indonesia against Israel’s war on Gaza
Over 150,000 protest in London against Israel war on Palestinians
Tens of thousands protest Israel’s war in cities throughout Britain
More than 15,000 in Chicago protest against Israeli assault on Palestine: “If we see children and families getting killed we must talk about it”
At protest outside White House: “The IDF is killing people while the western powers and media are complicit”
Protest in Dearborn, Michigan: “I’m here to stand up for humanity”
Protest in New Orleans suburb: “The American politicians and lobbyists … they are giving Israel billions and billions a year to commit a massacre basically.”
Thousands in New York protest genocidal onslaught on the Palestinians by Israel
Mass protests erupt internationally against Israeli war on Gaza
Open letter from Harvard employee opposing persecution of students protesting Israel’s assault on Gaza
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/15/hzvk-o15.html
Yes, hundreds of thousands of people have hit the streets.
And those hundreds of thousands of people who have hit the streets didn’t hit the streets because they changed their minds. They hit the streets in support of the same position they held on October 6.
How do you know this? Did you go and ask opinion?
Personally, I haven’t met anyone who has changed their minds. And I would imagine that the US media’s onslaught of one-sidedness made some who were sympathetic with the Palestinian cause, before Hamas’ attack, change their minds also.
That may be, but I think the tide is turning. A few years ago, other than Palestinians and activists, the average person would have been clobbered with “antisemitism” that would have stifled any action on the streets.
But people are going anyway now. I think more people are less well off and have empathy for those underfoot. Unions coming out in support is new. Younger people too. Younger people aren’t glued to state tv like older people are.
That could be true and hope it is. My sampling is based heavily on old fucks like myself. I’m still trying to tell some of them that the US didn’t “send” Iran $6 billion.
You’re good people.
Thank you. Same.
For the sake of clarity…Can you define ELDERLY?… ;-]
I said older people, Donna. The ones who grew up more with tv than the internet.
That’s why our government is trying every method possible to censor content on the net. Because a large percentage have abandoned cable and tv. They want all avenues for thought control.
Or grew up with a TV at age 12 a novelty 😉
I’ve changed a few. Drop in the bucket, but something.
Yes, I did.
Among the people I know who had opinions on Palestine/Israel before October 7, their opinions were unanimously unchanged after October 7. One person I know who was always “not my circus, not my monkeys” before seems like he probably mailed in Likud membership dues afterward.
Small sample, but I suspect larger polling on the general question won’t shift noticeably, and among the kind of people who are willing to “hit the streets,” not at all.
I meant did you go to protests and ask and obviously the answer is no.
Open your eyes.
My eyes are open about 17 hours a day.
The King of Jordan, al Sisi in Egypt, Saudis, Abbas, ….
Feel free to elaborate on how any of them have different positions now than they did on October 6.
Very publicly snubbed and/or condemned the action of Washington/Israel vis a vis Palestine.
Cowardice all too frequently rises to the top.
Here you are, again, the referee who also wants to play in the game. Integrity requires that you do one or the other. You are a moderator or you are a commenter. I’m disappointed that AntiWar allows you to play this game.
I am a moderator, and I am a commenter.
You don’t have to like it. That’s how it is whether you like it or not.
I replied to a comment that you made to someone else’s comment. You make frequent comments. You ask questions. You make evaluations. These are not done to ensure that the comment guidelines are enforced, but to shape the discussion. That is participating in the comment process. You being dishonest in claiming to be only a moderator. You are like a judge who hasn’t the integrity to recuse himself in a case where is is both judge and litigant. You are compromising your position as moderator.
“You being dishonest in claiming to be only a moderator”
I do not claim to be only a moderator. I am a moderator, and I am a commenter. Those are two entirely different functions.
ALL commenters “shape the discussion” by commenting.
There is no need for “recusal” because there’s no “litigation. If a comment violates our guidelines, it gets deleted, and the commenter may be banned. Disagreeing with me doesn’t violate the site’s guidelines.
The only reason I’m a moderator at all is because the choice was: 1) Someone agrees to be a moderator; or 2) There is no more commenting at Antiwar.com. I was willing to be a moderator, but not willing to stop being a commenter. You’re welcome.
All cowards and traitors trying to placate the streets without changing anything. NOT A D…. THING.
You are so wrong. MANY Israelis who believed in co-existence and 2 states no longer believe that this is possible. The left had been weakened in this regard over the last few years but this heinous mass slaughter was the last straw. They are no longer willing to risk the lives of their children by gambling on a free Palestinian state
Netanyahu and his ilk never wanted a two state solution and have done everything to undermine one.
And now we can see why they were right. After Oslo, there was jubilation in Israel because so many felt that there would finally be peace. The Palestinians have done everything they can to destroy that. “They do not miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity”
https://remix.aljazeera.com/aje/PalestineRemix/the-price-of-oslo.html
Probably, under the circumstances, the two state solution is a reasonable solution but we shouldn’t forget that Satanyahu and his folk are colonizers on Arab land. Most Arabs never agreed with the decision of Stalin and Roosevelt to create Israel on Arab land. Why they should? The bulk of Ashkenazy ethnos lived in Lithuania, Poland, East Germany, Belarus, West Ukraine, Moldova. It is criminal to use a mythology as a justification for colonizing a land which belongs to other people.
Well opening the eyes is the first step, seeing something is another thing altogether.
X/Twitter is less restrictive in its allowance of content than it would have been prior to Musk’s takeover. That said, there’s still some evidence of manipulating visibility there, but nowhere near as bad as it is on other soc media platforms.
Also, the overreach of establishmentarians in their purge of anybody more than slightly sympathetic to Palestinians is as subtle as a sledgehammer. That’s getting more attention as well.
Relatively speaking, there’s increased visibility both of the conflict and its attendant history. Among dems, the needle has moved notably further toward pro-Palestinian sentiment.
I presume you write this from your comfortable home in central Florida. However there are millions “worldwide who cannot go out of their homes who cannot encounter & will not be able to find any one whose so much as a single person whose position on the Arab-Israeli conflict seems to have not changed since October7 or because of the current situation.” The only question is how much and how far in which direction these things have altered their thinking.
It’s very easy to remain “neutral” from the safety of one’s own home, eh?
Zapp Brannigan : “I hate these filthy Neutrals, Kif. With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me.”
Kirby is a redux of Goebbels. or simply a reincarnation. Heartless,souless perv…
A more Micky Mousey version, definitely.
Micky ain’t that bad. Chuckie maybe.
🙂
I’m conducting a poll. Which would look better on Joe Genocide and Satanyahu: Kill 100,000 or 1 million Palestinians?
The answer is All of Them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/17fbr5b/funeral_procession_attacked_by_security_forces/
“John Kirby: Israel will continue to hurt “innocent civilians””
There is now a very good case to bring war crime charges against Joey Biden, Anthony Blinken, Victoria Nuland, and John Kirby.
The world needs new Nuremberg trials before these war criminals are hung.
The world needs to recognize that it it time for Iran to get its finger out of this.
Oh go to hell, you paid Israeli apologist..
unpaid.
Well, they should pay you.. apologists for genocide are few and far between, I would hope.
Would be nice if no country was allowed to help either side. In any conflict.
So you were opposed to the French helping America in the revolutionary war?
wars r u.s. may be old — I don’t know.
But I’m reasonably certain he’s not THAT old.
LMAO. You made a funny. There aren’t enough going around these days 😉
I don’t recall. I was young then.
I have not seen any evidence that Iran has its “finger” in this. I would think Iran would want to keep its fingers as far away as possible from such a dangerous plot against the Nuclear armed Jewish State.
Well here’s your chance at a Pulitzer, jake roberts ! Compile all your data, your evidence, your research into a volume, publish it, and WHABAM you are now a game-changer in the world of international politics !
All you’ll need is data, evidence, and research. Easy peazy ! As they say, “Every walk to the outer solar system starts with a single step.”
hahaha someone actually holding federal officials accountable. That’s a good one!
The best we can hope for now is to vote in a perfect storm of gridlock like we are seeing now in the house. Individually none of the jackasses may do anything to help us, but if we get enough of them pulling in different directions we just may derail this train yet.
“someone actually holding federal officials accountable. That’s a good one!”
This is no time for cynicism: there is resistance along a number of fronts – and the more individuals act, the more domestic electoral pressure Democrats will be under:
“Biden narrowly secured [Michigan] 2020, thanks in part to the 35,000 Muslim and Arab voters.”
https://www.newsnationnow.com/politics/2024-election/arab-americans-boycott-biden-israel-stance
“‘I will never vote Biden’: Some Muslim Americans in a key swing state feel betrayed by the president
Muslim and Arab Americans say their support was critical to Biden’s winning Michigan in 2020. Some warn they won’t back him again over his blanket support for Israel.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/muslim-arab-americans-rage-biden-michigan-israel-gaza-rcna121513
I will say that the only Republicans I will ever vote for are ones that deny the 2020 election results. I don’t think they are correct, but they are at least calling the legitimacy of the federal government into question and that is better than nothing.
April 25, 2023: President Joe Biden running for re-election: “You don’t have to be Jewish to be a Zionist, and I’m a Zionist.
“There is now a very good case to bring war crime charges against Joey Biden, Anthony Blinken, Victoria Nuland, and John Kirby.”
Yes:
“GOING ALL-IN FOR ISRAEL MAY MAKE BIDEN COMPLICIT IN GENOCIDE
Human rights lawyers warned Biden that his unconditional support for the war on Gaza may implicate the U.S. in Israel’s crimes.”
h ttps://theintercept.com/2023/10/19/israel-gaza-biden-genocide-war-crimes/
It’s OK, it’s doubtful that Biden is aware of what is happening beyond his place behind the desk.
If you question Israel’s number of killed on Oct 7, you’re accused of going with a “narrative”. Now it looks like Kirby is going with a “narrative”.
As the Israeli “Final Solution” for Gaza proceeds we are seeing what the costs are. Thousands of CHILDREN have been killed by indiscriminate bombings. Their homes obliterated, and food and water cut off. It seems the Israelis have recreated the horrors of the German Reich that they experienced or an aproximate reenactment or state brutality in a monumental way..
Watching my U.S. government play a supporting role in this genocide sickens me to the core.
Even Erdogan, who together with Satanyahu supported neo-Nazi Kiev regime, is outraged.
The moral vacuum of the Biden administration is abysmal.
What do these people do in system of law?
Nihilism has overtaken the decadent West, expressing itself in the US by the gun fetish, the culture of death, and the warfare state.
From welfare to warfare.
The old Great Society “Guns and Butter” terminology.
The phrase goes back to American policy as it entered the First World War, then infamously used by Nazi leader Hermann Göring in 1936 – “Guns will make us powerful; butter will only make us fat.”
With the obesity pandemic making a large chunk of young people unfit for military service, maybe it’s a blessing, but Hermann was prescient with his understanding of what butter does.
Hah, you know what’s funny, having heard that “Guns and Butter” expression in passing over the years, I always thought it was an old-timey “trueism” regarding good investments (‘the two things people will always buy, are…’)
Nihilism is a kind of liberalism. In 19th century, authority of Christian Church diminished and many people started to feel themselves free from any morality imposed upon them by Church. It looks, in The West, this process is passing at the moment the no return point. The lie and murder are legalized.
“…any morality imposed upon them by Church.”
And what was this ‘morality’, exactly ? I hope you don’t mean the Ten Commandments (the final, most popular version; not the other two sets), because 70% of those are not terribly useful for society.
The essence of it is to treat each other as brothers, the way we ourselves want to be treated.
A good notion … but one the Egyptians, and Confucius (if not others), came up with – centuries before “the Church” said it. It’s not original to Christianity.
Yes, cultural laissez faire, anarchism, bellum omnium, … but in the past restricted to the educated urban elite. Post WW I it gradually came to encompass all the core institutions of the West -gender, family, school, church, … gov’t, army, news media, arts & culture, all reduced to vehicles (monetized) for individual personal gain/consumerism. All the transcendent lattices (truth, beauty, goodness, justice, love, selflessness, …) that go to form a meaningful society/culture are deconstructed leaving only pleasure/pain.
“This is war. It is combat. …”
Precision bombing hospitals!
Hospitals can be VERY hard to hit from a great safe distance away, mind you.
Can’t be too hard. They had hit it just previously with a “roof knocker” worning shell.
That reminds me of the old Allied superstition (WW1 era I believe) about it being bad luck to light three cigarettes off the same match. The first glowing cig gives the German sniper a direction; the second point of light gives him the range; and the third smoker loses his head.
So they herd everyone to the south claiming they are giving warnings to civilians to leave the north before bombing. Then they bomb the south:
Israel intensified its overnight bombing of southern Gaza, where officials said record numbers of Palestinians had been killed again, as violence flared elsewhere in the region and a showdown loomed at the U.N. on Wednesday over desperately needed aid.
Health officials in the Hamas-run enclave said many of those killed were in the south, where hundreds of thousands fled after Israel warned them it would attack the north to wipe out Hamas after its killing spree in Israel on Oct. 7.
I propose the following verb for what is done to Northern Gaza: “Dresdenizing”.
Incredible. What we are seeing is the ultra Zionists, who now govern Israel, openly explaining the true nature of their project, without any nuance or shame. As anyone who has studied Zionism realizes, the project is (and always has been) to ethnically cleanse Palestine of its native inhabitants in order to make way for Jewish settlors reclaiming their heritage, as prophesized in the Bible. One has to ask if this makes Netanyahu the long awaited Messiah.
Satanyahu is the same messiah as Hitleryahu.
have not seen any evidence that Iran has its “finger” in this. I would think Iran would want to keep its fingers as far away as possible from such a dangerous plot against the Nuclear armed Jewish State.
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Prophesized by the Bible ? , yep a book they write themselves over a 2,000 year period , the truth is they have no claim on Palestine , the fate of the Palestinian People was sealed in 1917 with the BALFOUR DECLARATION of the BRITISH ESTABLISHMENT who promise the JEWS a home land in Palestine , the promise was made to ROTHSCHILDS you can guess what for ,
“…yep a book they write themselves over a 2,000 year period…”
And there’s the self-fulfilling ‘prophecy’ in all its mundane glory.
I’ve got a prophecy too : some time tomorrow (or possibly the next day) I will enjoy an orange-flavoured Slurpee from 7-Eleven.
Good ! Now all I have to do is actively work to accomplish all the steps necessary to do the thing I’m setting out to accomplish….and prophecy miraculously fulfilled !
True, Israel will not stop, and what it insists on doing has killed thousands of civilians, and will kill countless more.
Guilt is shared by its enablers, such as Kirby. He even admits it.
Absolutely unacceptable. This government is morally corrupt to it core.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1be1e5504a9837801fe7136f9f757f8eea92497f3cd87bcc65c9afb5c0f91779.jpg
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4728318836fecb51b2a0a435efb69c1b4f4b69a380896315d58c28e97d5af432.jpg
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The usa and his lil’ psycho buddy israel
Sure is a ‘Christmas Story’ folks,eh?
ho ho ho…bombs away!!!
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f5201724d1c3e173f35631c1fbba6423e29eecf32f2ce08baf8378c706cb1f71.jpg
Dozens of foreign journalists gathered at a military base north of Tel Aviv on Monday for a screening put on by the Israel Defense Forces: 43 minutes of footage from Hamas’s Oct. 7 attack on Israel, in which 1,400 people were killed and more than 200 others taken hostage.
Graeme Wood, a national correspondent for The Atlantic, attended the screening and wrote about his experience in an emotionally raw piece, “A Record of Pure, Predatory Sadism.” He spoke on Tuesday about what he witnessed, and the impact it has had on him as a journalist and as a human being.
He said has not seen anything quite like the footage that he was shown by the IDF this week.
“I hope that I am not permanently changed by what I saw,” Wood said. “There are consequences to seeing horrible things, to seeing the murder of innocent people, the dismemberment of innocent people, and there are certainly changes for any person who sees these things, but we’re not just any reporters,” he added, pointing out the journalists in the room are accustomed to such grisly footage.
Still, they were visibly distraught by the harrowing images of Hamas terrorists hunting, torturing, and murdering civilians — including women, children, and the elderly.
“Part of being a professional is thinking through those things in advance so that the way they affect you is not permanently damaging,” Wood said. “It will, unless you’re a sociopath, disturb your sleep, haunt you.
”https://www.mediaite.com/news/i-hope-that-i-am-not-permanently-changed-the-atlantics-graeme-wood-describes-witnessing-footage-of-hamas-atrocities/
Oh, please. It’s obscene for supporters of Israel’s ongoing genocidal campaign to push terror porn in an effort to drum up support for the slaughter.
You “can’t handle the truth.”
I wonder – did the IDF’s little propaganda piece also include a scene where Palestinians morph into rats & scurry away ? I seem to recall an old German film where some other ethnicity was shown doing that…
“Der ewige Palästinensisch” — In their hateful fever dreams.
I can only imagine the IDF’s prop-piece had the same high-energy narration as in News Reels before WW2 era movies.
“Dateline : Gaza ! Our boys in blue & white take the fight to the {racial slur toward Arabs} on the front lines ! Take that, Hamas ! Here’s some IDF artillery sending a little {cliche stereotype Arab food} for the {different racial slur toward Arabs} to chew on ! Remember, moral soldiers of the IDF ! God Is With Us !”
Tell Graeme Wood, the national correspondent
for The Atlantic.
I live on the Pacific coast. His ocean is of little interest to me. Well, apart from lobsters. Dud-a-chuck ? Did-a-chum ? Mmm, tasty lobstrosities.
This is so tragic that families are being destroyed for policial reasons. Where are the peacemakers in all this? Washington is failing humanity.
I think you need to recalibrate what “Washington” means to you.
“combat” Adm Kirby? No, just cowardly slaughter.
Kirby is a waste of skin, he is American advocating for bombing women and children.
Stop funding it, stop sending military. Stop pretending this isn’t your killing of civilians. Stop pretending you have no control. Stop pretending you aren’t war criminals.
We are the evil empire.
With our blessing.
If Washington dangled the prospect of Israel being cut off from all US assistance you could count the time in minutes before the IDF stood down and returned to its barracks. That’s what it takes- as long as we continue to support Israel and give them a pass to do whatever they want, that’s exactly what they will do. The question is: how many Palestinians have to die before some nation- ANY nation- stands up for them and steps in between them and Israel?
There is a serious deficit of courage and decency in the leading cliques in virtually every part of the world. If there were no nuclear weapons and if there were a nation with military resources to challenge the Hegemon, we would still have the same problem: a willingness to sacrifice for the benefit of the powerless.
Instead, we have a Secretary General of the United Nations with only his voice to back him up. In Europe, we have a crowd of cowards with no character whatsoever, beyond that possessed by Hungary and Serbia, two outcasts from the EU/NATO cartel. In Russia and China, two nations trying to catch up to the Hegemon, but too rational to take the Hegemon on – because the only dialog the Hegemon knows, is the dialog of threat and force.
The US government regards Israel as a useful tool. Respect for another’s religious rights and the right to exist is nowhere in the cards.
“I wish I could tell you something different and wish that there wasn’t going to happen, but it is going to happen. And that doesn’t make it right, doesn’t make it dismissible,” Kirby added.
Sure as f*ck sounds like he is dismissing it. And if he doesn’t think it’s right, why isn’t he suggesting the US take action? Is it because we have a policy of not getting involved in conflicts on the other side of the planet? And where are Kirby’s crocodile tears?
He’s funding it. And notice how he softens impact to people being hurt and not killed?
https://internationalman.com/articles/doug-casey-on-the-middle-east-conflict-and-what-comes-next/
Nice Article on that whole mess.
I would like to remind Mr. Kirby:
The White House , is OUR HOUSE. If this military madness continues, the people will take their house back and will only allow PEOPLE in, who are sane with a strong moral conviction.
A worthy dream.
Like the first occupier” G/ Washington? They all do it! https://www.usnews.com/news/national/articles/2008/06/27/town-destroyer-versus-the-iroquois-indians
The crimes of us presidents:
https://youtu.be/ANHw2qytXGM?si=v5DKQVNbS06rTnAY
Here’s Jewish Voice for Peace’s page for quick and easy letters and phone calls demanding the US demands Gaza ceasefire:
“Refusal to Back Cease-Fire Is an Endorsement of Israel’s Genocidal Attack on Gaza”
h ttps://www.commondreams.org/opinion/refusal-to-back-cease-fire-is-an-endorsement-of-israel-s-genocidal-attack-on-gaza
Again – though it counts for little, hope folks will write and call their reps – Jewish Voice for Peace’s ‘action’ software makes it fast and easy – and faster in future since you can ask it to remember yr name/email/zip.
Copy and paste yr lttrs into another file and you can do it daily in 60 seconds – less time than for most posts on antiwar:
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource-type/action-alerts/
“I wish I could tell you something different and wish that this wasn’t going to happen, but it is going to happen. And that doesn’t make it right, doesn’t make it dismissible,” Kirby added. (excerpt)
I hope you feel the same way Admiral. When some day American cities are bombed out of existence. By those who survive this carpet bombing onslaught in Gaza and through out the Middle East. By Israel with U.S. satellite intel, weapons and munitions.
https://sputnikglobe.com/20231025/former-idf-commander-turning-gaza-into-lake-with-sea-channel-might-be-lesson-for-hamas-1114483742.html
January 1, 1948: Ben-Gurion diary, “There is a need now for strong and brutal reaction. We need to be accurate about timing, place and those we hit. If we accuse a family – we need to harm them without mercy, women and children included. Otherwise, this is not an effective reaction . . . There is no need to distinguish between guilty and not guilty.”
1948: Jewish forces drove seven hundred thousand Palestinians onto exile; 531 Arab villages destroyed.
June 1948: Ben-Gurion: “We must prevent at all costs their return.”
The Israeli government is refusing to accept released hostages. These people are worth more to Israel as captives.
Israel rejected to provide equipment for hospitals in Gaza for the release of 50 further hostages.
WE ARE ALL BEING LIED TOO to facilitate ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Link?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/21/hamas-says-israel-refused-to-receive-2-hostages-israel-calls-it-propaganda
Another he said, they said, that doesn’t stand to logic.
Why would Israel reject TWO hostages when there still are reportedly TWO HUNDRED?
What does Israel gain with a rejection like that?
Nothing.
So, who benefits from this story, bingo, Hamas.
I don’t know the truth, but the story doesn’t make sense.
And it is very interesting with all the worldwide media support no one else is reporting this.
Just to be clear, I wasn’t attempting to support Doom Sternz’s claim as necessarily true — just providing a link to one of the stories he seemed to be referencing, because you asked for one.
Based on the dueling statements, my hypothesis is that the Israeli regime wants all hostage releases to go via the Rafah crossing under the aegis of the International Red Cross or whatever, so that they’re not portrayed by their domestic “hardliner” opponents as “engaging with” Hamas in any manner other than shooting, for which they could be called “soft on” Hamas.
Yep i understand you didn’t necessarily supported the information, you just supplied the requested link which i thought was helpful. People can make up their own mind what the information means.
Western MSM will not report the truth.
John Kirby said “And as I think you’ve heard us say, a ceasefire right now really only benefits Hamas. That’s where we are right now.”
These people are psychopaths, monsters.
A ceasefire would of course benefit ALL people living on the planet including people living in Gaza and all Israeli’s under threats of Hamas missile fire.
It is important to also recognize the attacks by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum. The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation.
They have seen their land steadily devoured by settlements and plagued by violence; their economy stifled; their people displaced and their homes demolished. Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing.
But the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas. And those appalling attacks cannot justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people.
Hamas was created by Netanyahu as a counter to Yasser Arafat’s PLO. Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people.
In the same way that ISIS is a US proxy to occupy the ME. ISIS does not represent the people of the ME.