President Biden arrived in Israel on Wednesday and backed Israel’s claim that it did not bomb the Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza City on Tuesday, saying it appeared the “other team” was responsible.
“Based on what I’ve seen, it appears as though it was done by the other team, not you,” Biden told Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. “But there’s a lot of people out there not sure.”
Israel claims the blast at the hospital was caused by an errant rocket fired by Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), while Palestinian officials say an Israeli airstrike caused the explosion. Both PIJ and Hamas have strongly denied the Israeli claim.
Later, Biden was asked how he came to that conclusion and claimed it was based on “data I was shown by my Defense Department.”
Initial reports of the hospital blast said 500 people were killed. Gaza authorities on Wednesday said the death toll was 471. Suhaila Tarazi, director of the Ahli Arab Hospital, said the death toll was in the “hundreds” but could not confirm about 500 people were killed. “It could be more, it could be less. There are so many body parts that no one can really tell,” she told AP. “We are all losers in this war. And it must end.”
Photos of the aftermath show the hospital was not leveled by the strike, and the high death toll is attributed to the fact that thousands of Palestinians sought refuge there and were sleeping in the courtyards. Israel had ordered the evacuation of Gaza City and other areas of north Gaza, which is home to 1.1 million Palestinians.
The American Friends of the Episcopal Diocese of Jerusalem (AFEDJ), a non-profit that raises funds for the Ahli Arab Hospital, described the cause of the blast as a “direct airstrike hit” and said hundreds were killed but did not attribute blame.
Israel had also warned the hospital to evacuate in the days leading up to the bombing. Archbishop Hosam Naoum, the head of the Episcopal Church in Jerusalem and the Middle East, which runs the hospital, said hospital managers were warned by Israel three times since Saturday to evacuate.
The Israeli military acknowledged the warnings were made but claimed it was part of an effort to get people out of north Gaza and insisted the hospital was not a target. However, the hospital was hit with rockets on October 14 in what the AFEDJ described as an “Israeli rocket attack.” The New York Times said it verified videos posted after the October 14 attack that showed artillery shells that are typically fired from howitzers Palestinian groups in Gaza have not been known to use, and Israel frequently fires artillery from howitzers into the enclave.
Once again, Israel has the receipts, Hamas outed.
What receipts R you referring to..?????
Evidence produced, do some research.
Since you claim there is evidence, show us.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/israel-presents-evidence-it-claims-proves-it-did-not-bomb-gaza-hospital/ar-AA1ir971
“The audio and the transcript have not been independently verified.” The only “evidence” you’ve presented is that you’ll swallow anything Israel bukkakes down your throat and ask for seconds
The truth is we don’t know.
The audio and the transcript have not been independently verified.
He showed the press a map of what he said highlighted the locations of these failed launches – also not independently verified.
It has been submitted, and will be reviewed, meanwhile from Hamas nothing, but apoplexy.
What about the deleted tweet from an Israeli official claiming the Israel had hit the hospital?
Or was that tweet “faked” by someone else?
Fog. The photos are out, the hospital stands, fake news and lies once again all designed to foment more bloodshed.
What evidence? That Israel said they were prioritizing destruction over precision and are now acting accordingly? Or their claims that a lack of a crater absolved them? Not all modern munitons leave craters in their wake and Russia isnt the only one with thermobaric arms. https://english.nv.ua/nation/informnapalm-says-russians-may-have-used-thermobaric-weapons-on-olenivka-russia-ukraine-war-50260086.html
Question, who does this benefit?
And who has the longest history of staging atrocities for propaganda narratives?
Wise up.
Question, who would this make look bad? And who has the longest history of disproportionate responses to any flare up between Hamas and Israel? And who threatened to level Gaza? And who bragged about dropping 6,000 bombs on Gaza thus far?
“Question, who does this benefit?”
Hamas.
“And who has the longest history of staging atrocities for propaganda narratives?”
Israel, by far, if for no other reason than that Hamas has only existed since 1987 — 33 years after the Lavon Affair, an admitted Israeli plot to commit terror attacks in Egypt and blame them on the Muslim Brotherhood, communists, etc.
Time change things, compare Hamas lies with Israel’s since 1987 to be relevant.
You asked a very specific question.
You got an absolutely correct answer to that question.
If you wanted an answer to a different question, maybe you should have asked that different question instead of the question you asked.
From 1987 forward who lies the most Israel or Hamas, that is my question.
I’ve never conducted a media count to see which one’s lips move the most. But for any given statement from either organization, I’d take even odds on it containing one or more lies.
In the Gaza charter there is language to effectively eliminate Israel and Israelis, so no, I don’t trust anything they say except that.
So they’re only truthful when you WANT to believe them, then.
That explains a lot.
It’s clear from their participation here that they are not a good faith actor. They are a pro Israeli troll incapable of objectivity and currently frothing at the mouth because their vaunted IDF got it’s nose bloodied.
They are internationally recognized as a terror organization, have committed numerous atrocities and blatantly proclaim destroying their neighbor is they’re overriding goal.
They say that openly and in their Gaza charter. So, yes, I believe that.
And because their sole purpose is destruction, not peace,
I don’t believe anything else they say. Why is that so hard to believe?
Just common sense.
What evidence, for example, have they given to show Israel was responsible for the hospital bombing?
They are not recognized by a large majority of the world as a “terrorist organization”. Only the collective West.
Oh… so all the authoritarian regimes recognize them, all those without a free press,
BUT the democratic govts with free press do not.
There is a clue in there for you, see if you can find it.
I am referring to the majority of Asia, South America, Africa and the Middle East. The United States and it’s lapdogs (the EU, Canada, Australia) follow the lead of their master.
Who tells the biggest lies?:
Israel signed the Oslo accords.
Hamas said Israel had no intention of fulfilling its obligations.
Every Israeli PM and government pledged adherence to the two state solution.
For 25 years Israeli governments have been warning that Iran aless than a year away from developing a nuclear weapon.
Israel tells the biggest lies and the most lies compared to Hamas.
Arafat said to his people-we will take what we can now and take the rest later.
The Gaza charter calls for eliminating Jews and Israel. With neighbors like that, you know everything they say is a lie.
Hamas no longer adheres to the anti-Semitic parts of the old charter.
How do you know? The sneak attack last week or so says you’re not paying attention.
The Gaza charter? I don’t think that’s a thing. You probably mean the Hamas Charter? I think you are making a Fruedian slip here showing your cards insofar as you equate all Gazans with Hamas. That’s how you can justify collective punishment in your perverse head. You Israelis are shaping up to be as brutal as the Nazis that gave the justification for creating your state.
Hamas is the ruling party, it’s their charter for Gaza. Gazan’s were given ample notice to get out of harm’s way unlike those who suffered the Hamas sneak attack.
As you yourself point out, vis a vis Hamas’s charter, those who suffered the Hamas sneak attack had 36 years’ worth of notice to get out of harm’s way. How is it that a couple of days’ worth of notice makes murder OK and 36 years’ worth doesn’t?
Gasa’s warning, eminent.
Hamas warning, opaque.
You treat it as crystal clear when you find it convenient, then pretend it’s “opaque” when that’s more convenient.
Is there anything you handle consistently or have any standard other than “it justifies what I FEEEEEEEEEEL” for?
Don’t play dumb,
Israel gave Gazan civilians over 48 hours to get out of the northern sector.
Hamas surprise attacked infants, women and children with no such warning.
Hamas gave Israelis 36 years to get out of Palestine. With many prior attacks to accentuate the message. And with open public warnings on October 1st and 2nd that the al-Aqsa incursions were a “red line” for war.
That doesn’t excuse Hamas’s crimes, nor do “warnings” excuse any crimes committed by Israeli forces.
Define Palestine geographically as you see how it should be and why, if you would.
I have no opinion as to what it should be.
As to what it is, it’s a geographical region including the internationally recognized states of Jordan and Israel (the latter of which has borders set in the instrument of its creation, never since amended, UNR 181), with the remainder set aside (also in 1947, also by UNR 181) for a Palestinian Arab state and Jerusalem as an international city.
Non-Jordanian Palestinian Arabs do not seem to have formally declared the state and set about getting other states to recognize it until 1988. But per UNR 181 it does include Gaza and the West Bank.
Well apparently, Hamas does, their slogan is “From the sea to the river.”, hum, sounds pretty clear to me they have no intention of any co-existent relationship with Israel.
So, what does warnings to Israel to get out of “Palestine” over the last 36 years even mean?
You tell me you don’t know,
and I wonder if any of those infants, children, young adults who were slaughtered or are hostages now had any idea?
Probably not.
If Hamas raided your house and slaughtered your family over some ancient grievance,
I wonder what you would do.
No matter what the past was about, it cannot be changed,
but the present can be changed. Slaughtering non-combatant, infants, children and women is the stuff of a Genghis Khan mentality.
I’m not a Jew, don’t even know one, but this barbarous, malignant, thing call Hamas must be put out of its misery to my way of thinking.
PS: latest news feeds other than Hamas indicate the explosion at the hospital was not ON the hospital but on the parking lot adjacent and with the small amount of collateral damage (small crater) and actual damage to the hospital it is highly unlikely anywhere near 500 people were killed.
Shaping up to be an incompetent missile accident by Hamas but they quickly ginned it up for maximum propaganda value to all spur on more bloodshed.
—–
they have no intention of any co-existent relationship with Israel.
So, what does warnings to Israel to get out of “Palestine” over the last 36 years even mean?
—-
Exactly what you just said it means. They have no intention of any co-existent relationship with Israel and have been telling Israelis, every day since 1987, “get out of Palestine or we will kill you,” and attempting to do so.
So how can you in any way support these monsters?
Which monsters? I’ve never supported Hamas, and it’s been a long time since I’ve supported the Israeli regime.
The monsters who perpetrated the slaughter of 1300+ innocent Israelis.
As you yourself point out, vis a vis Hamas’s charter, those who suffered the Hamas sneak attack had 36 years’ worth of notice to get out of harm’s way. How is it that a couple of days’ worth of notice makes murder OK and 36 years’ worth doesn’t?
When were the last elections again? So you are arguing for collective punishment as has been the fascist Israeli government’s stated position, correct?
Was the gutless sneak attack against infants, children, woman and defenseless men that slaughtered 1300+ “collective punishment”?
I have seen no evidence that Hamas murdered women and children, have you? If you have any evidence I’m up for looking at it. Either way, even if Hamas has slaughtered women and children that still wouldn’t morally justify collective punishment of the entire Gaza strip. This is a very simple moral calculus, but I’m afraid you are illustrating the moral depravity of the current Israeli leadership.
So you’re saying they DON’T really want to eliminate Jews and Israel?
I’m saying that is the only thing I believe about them
because everything else they say is designed to attain that goal, which opens the door wide for any lie they want.
Their cartoons say otherwise.
Does it? Horror and fury directed at Israel is certainly bad for Israel, and it could conceivably, in the long run, enhance world support for the Palestinian cause. It’s not clear to me, though, that Hamas itself stands to benefit. It seems pretty likely that, when this battle is over, Hamas will have few important supporters anywhere, no matter what Israel does or doesn’t do.
That’s a fair point. But in the moment, anything that makes Israel look worse than Hamas benefits Hamas, or at least accrues toward Hamas’s anti-Israel goals.
Yes, the folks indiscriminately dropping more bombs on Gaza in a week than the US used in some years in Afghanistan can be relied on when they say “sure we may have sent 6,000 munitions into Gaza, but munitions 6,001 was definitely not us!” https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-gaza-strip/card/israeli-air-force-says-it-has-dropped-6-000-bombs-on-gaza-QK1aSnupiGqytMVO86PU
Yeah the receipts for the ordnance they used to blast the hospital in Gaza. No surprise though since they are abandoning precision in favor of destruction https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/11/israel-abandon-precision-bombing-eliminate-hamas-officials/
Sorry, the evidence is overwhelming supporting Israel’s innocence in this matter.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/israel-presents-evidence-it-claims-proves-it-did-not-bomb-gaza-hospital/ar-AA1ir971
“The audio and the transcript have not been independently verified.” In other words the “evidence,” according to Israel alone, supports their claim
Israel “alone” gathered it and is now presenting it.
Independent reviewers will evaluate it.
So far, it checks out more comprehensively than Hamas’ hyperbolic “days of rage” BS.
Speaking of statements from Israel they initially took “credit” for the strike before thinking better of it. Guess they figured we were dumb, but not THAT dumb https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/18/what-is-israels-narrative-on-the-gaza-hospital-explosion
Israelis have and submitted audio of Hamas admitting the accident.
Israelis have shared audio they claim is that admission. If and when that audio is actually submitted to qualified independent experts, in a form that permits conclusive analysis, you can post that ten-word sentence again and it will be true. It’s not true now.
And your post isn’t responsive to Argon’s post or to the Aljazeera story it links to.
I’m willing to wait for the experts, it just takes time, meanwhile aljezeera as your source is hilarious.
Oh, now you’re willing to wait. Promise?
That you dismiss Aljazeera as “hilarious” would tell us a lot about your understanding and biases relating to ME issues, but we already know.
Where are Hamas’ receipts?
Amazing how they got that intelligence so quickly and yet had a 3 day warning from Egypt about something big happening before something big happened. Makes one think.
Dramatic new footage appears to show rockets fired over a hospital in Gaza just moments before a deadly explosion last night, which Hamas claims has killed more than 500 civilians. A video clip aired on Israeli television shows a salvo of rockets being launched before explosions rock an area reported to be the site of the Al-Ahli Hospital. Channel 12 News claimed the video was ‘proof’ that a rocket fired in Palestine malfunctioned mid-air before crashing down and bursting into flames. Local TV station footage.
I wouldn’t put it past the IDF to use the nearby fire of rockets as an opening of plausible deniability to murder women and children sheltering in the hospital’s parking lot.
Regardless of the truth of this matter there is ample evidence of Israel committing war crimes against the Palestinian people. Only a hasbara troll or moral midget would be defending the collective punishment going on in Gaza. Israel is losing any support it might have had. Of course the media and Western establishment will support them.
Where is your evidence?
Their past behavior. We have 75 years of murderous, dehumanizing behavior by the Israeli fascists (e.g. the ones calling the shots in the military and government). Got it sporto?
The whole “hospital attack” is fake news fed to the deranged, like yourself.
Did you read my comments, sporto? I’m reserving judgment on who was responsible. Try to keep up.
Israel has the most vivid imagination. First they were sure it was Hamas misfiring a rocket in the parking lot. After it became clear that over 500 people cannot die from one misfired rocket, story B emerged. Now it is SIME OTHER GROUP with a missile by mistake hit hospital.
The other two hospitals were also a mistake?
OK stroker.
You are quite the fascist, aren’t you.
In other words,no one should disagree.
With what?
Projection.
Yeah, you got me I’m a fascist who wants peace talks, the implementation of the 2-state solution, and the end of apartheid in Israel. I’m a fascist who believes that collective punishment is immoral. I’m a fascist with Jewish children. I’m a fascist who has been antiwar their entire adult life. I’m a total fascist…..
I think you need to get some professional mental health care as you seem to have some kind of cluster 3 personality disorder as evidenced by your inability to empathize and your delusional thinking. You need to get diagnosed by a professional so that you can start on the path of managing your mental health disorder and stop hurting the humans around you. Good luck my friend.
NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, Just common sense required……
Joe Biden said it so it must be true! Sadly most Republicans and RFK will adopt just this line of thinking . . .
To be clear, I roundly condemn Israel’s collective punishment of the Palestinians. That being said, there is a certain amount of hypocrisy coming from the Western MSM. When the USA was destroying northern Iraq and eastern Syria there was nary a peep from them about collective punishment or war crimes. Same with the NATO destruction of Libya. Those were all framed as moral crusades against terror. It should not be surprising to anyone who has been paying attention for the last 20+ years that the Western establishment would support Israel 100%. Especially if it gets the neocons any closer to their wet dream of destroying Iran.
Absolutely. It’s only a crime when “someone else” does it. If Israel actually did it, and I believe they did, and expect proof will be forthcoming, then that is heinous and an atrocity; but people who still haven’t acknowledged the US bombing of the Al Firdos bomb shelter in the Gulf War that killed 483 civilians, mostly women and children, have no right to point fingers.
Meanwhile, every errant russian bomb that goes off in Ukraine is justification for world war 3 according to the same US media and political apologists.
Can you imagine if Iran was carpet bombing children? We would be doing a regime change before you could say “I’m the decider.”
Absolutely.
Last 20 years ? , try the last 70 years , as for Iran the Democratically Elected government was over thrown by the yanks in 1953 until the Iranians got their act together and kicked out the puppet government .
Yes, yes, but back then it could be justified (not really) in the context of the cold war. Either way, yes I would argue going back to the Philippine-American War and Spanish-American War.
The US fleet is in the Eastern Mediteranean to deter Hezboallah attacks on Israel and prevent WW3.Too many casualties inflicted by terrorists, and Israel will quite justly nuke Iran.
Israel will not nuke Iran. The danger is there, but that would mean the end of Israel as well as Iran. Israel knows this and will (I hope) behave accordingly. Either way, if the U.S. wanted to calm things down and de-escalate, engaging in some diplomacy and calling for a cease fire would be a good start.
I’m afraid it’s too late for that, Frank. The entire Muslim world is viewing this as a crusade by the West.
Israel is a tiny country- roughly the size of New Jersey- and it wouldn’t take many Russian Tu-95’s to turn it into Gaza. I expect if Iran goes from Israeli missiles, Israel goes as well. The operative part is that even with every nuke in Israel’s arsenal turned up to 11, the much larger Iran will survive as a nation. Israel, not so much.
But Frank:
It was “worth it!” According to rotting corpse Albright.
This is the same “Biden” who thinks he marched with MLK and has claimed any number of obvious and deranged falsehoods? That “Joe Biden”?
Someone should show Joe the difference between Hamas rocket explosions and the hospital event and that the former don’t have the weapons to instigate the latter even if they wanted to.
But didn’t the same crew claim that Russia blew up its own pipeline … until they couldn’t?
There must be proof of this. Assertions are not enough.
How do we know Israel has bigger and more explosive rockets than Hamas?
effed up america- dysfunctional
Last week Biden was parroting a report of beheaded babies that was totally fabricated so his pronouncements are meaningless.
From the same playbook chapter that said Saddam was having babies taken from incubators.
Go find the burned babies on line-easy enough.
Yeh probably faked by the WHITE HELMETS remember them LACKEYS of the British .
Yes,no Israeli children were bound and burned alive.That could not happen because.No fingers chopped off,no nude women paraded around after defilement,no no no.
Line up the pictures of dead babies, Jewish and Palestinian beside each other. They all count. There are a lot more killed by the “good guys” and we pay for them to do it, and lie for them to cover it up.
lol…. how about those babies killed by an out of control stork in Memphis. stupid sheeple yankees
And “Huns” bayoneting babies in Belgium in 1914, complete with lurid drawings.
His pronouncements have a purpose to spread the lies in the world.
Meanwhile,his election chances have greatly improved.
Sadly true.
So Israel killed 3,000 Palestinians in attacks on Gaza besides this one https://www.newarab.com/news/death-toll-destruction-israel-exceeds-all-gaza-wars, they hit this hospital before on October 14th https://afedj.org/ahli-hospital-struck-by-rocket-fire/, the reason this hospital had so many people in it was due to their strikes on their homes elsewhere in Gaza, and they have struck other hospitals in Gaza during this campaign killing 15 healthcare works before this attack https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/18/what-is-israels-narrative-on-the-gaza-hospital-explosion.
But we are supposed to believe that this wasn’t them now? You’d have to be confused and senile to swallow that, which is why it makes perfect sense that Biden would accept it.
Time for the Jerichos.
Much ado about the lack of a crater and that supposedly clearing Israel of wrongdoing. Of course not all modern military munitons leave craters, particularly certain thermobaric ones. https://english.nv.ua/nation/informnapalm-says-russians-may-have-used-thermobaric-weapons-on-olenivka-russia-ukraine-war-50260086.html
Hamas may not have any but the US and Israel sure do. Of course suggest any of this to the mainstream media and they’ll take it as proof of Russia bombing the hospital
It was not a thermo baric weapon.
Sure, Hamas attacked themselves. Just like how Russia sabotaged Nord Stream II and Palestinians shot Shireen Abu Akleh.
https://x.com/AGHamilton29/status/1714561416298914276?s=20 Real time video footage from this morning
It looks like they did indeed do just that.
There were 2 videos posted last night that showed the rocket launch and then the explosion on the ground.
It was not really clear what exactly had happened until we see it was the parking lot that got hit.
Cars and trees burning.
Biden blew up Nordstream. I have no idea who Akleh is.
Israel has indeed killed a bunch of civilians bombing rocket launches and real or suspected positions.
Cause Islamics always use human shields.
I just don’t see them bombing this hospital parking lot. The only people who would benefit from that would be Hamas and their supporters.
You and the X poster you cite are using fragmented and unverified images to support a claim that wouldn’t be proven even if the images were verified. It’s dishonest. You should stop.
Verified by who? No UN or Red Cross can get in there to verify anything.
Those are indeed that hospital parking lot
Are you having difficulty reading for meaning? Nah, you just imagine that you’re clever enough to baffle us with your bullshit. You aren’t.
Your two replies to my post do not in any way challenge or refute what I wrote. Not even a little bit.
Easy to see you won’t let any evidence interfere with your beliefs.
LOL. Looking in the mirror, Zionist?
zionism gooooood.
Psycho!
Zionism is for old people.
Zionism is rapidly fossilizing, getting brittler. lotsa cracks and crackpots.
https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1714609125236129929?s=20
The credit for the photographer looks to be in the lower right corner..
She was a journalist killed by Israel. But of course first they blamed the Palestinians for it https://www.npr.org/2023/05/11/1175403626/palestinian-american-journalist-shireen-abu-akleh-was-killed-a-year-ago#:~:text=A%20year%20ago%20today%2C%20Palestinian,of%20a%20long%2C%20deadly%20pattern.
Thank you.
“Islamics”? Do you mean Muslims or Arabs?
Thanks for sharing the murderous Zionist POV!
Do you still think Israel bombed this hospital?
Until I see clear evidence to the contrary, yes.
As another poster noted in reply to you, it’s not the 1st hospital that Israel has attacked and not the 1st time Israel has lied to try to cover up its crimes.
The difference between you peeps and me is you don’t care if its true or not. You only care that it helps your “Side”.
I’m not at all interested in your arrogance and conceit
You blow it out your ass and call it a symphony.
That’s a good one, DreamJoe! May I use that?
Please do. Glad you enjoyed the humor in it.
This is not an argument in favor of your POV. Bye.
Israel hit the same hospital three days ago knocking out two floors – that’s from the UN watch.
Thanks
I just don’t see them bombing this hospital parking lot. The only people who would benefit from that would be Hamas and their supporters.
Why is that an issue? The US wouldn’t stop backing Israel if Israel flat assed admitted to bombing the hospital. Then it would be back to the original claim that it was being used as an ammo dump or Hamas was hiding there using human shields. The benefit to Hamas would be inconsequential. As long as the US gives Israel “unwavering” and “ironclad” support, the carnage will continue.
LOL!
If you had no idea who Shireen was, I’d say you have very little business commenting here!
You don’t appear to be very well-versed in world events.
Hamas shot themselves in the foot
Oh.
Were you there?
Oh.
Were you there?
Forget national news monopolies. The people need to generate reliable intelligence no matter who did many wrong acts, whether via malice or mistake.
Israel is known to have lied at the time of the many occurences of worst crimes only to admit later.The mute reactions of EU, UN,and US at the time of eventual admissions of the old crimes contrast in clear relief to the initial reaction to the actual victims .
Thats what serial criminal like Israel achieve .
Keep on committing crimes every day ,blame victims, generate victim -blaming and move on to next crime .
For the crimes that would really offend the US, they are allowed to just keep on lying no matter the proof.
See USS Liberty.
See nuclear weapons.
See the Nakba.
Also, Mark, please see Rachel Corrie and Shireen Abu Ahkla.
It was pretty clear last night that something hit there.
But not an aerial bomb.
Video on the scene in daylight shows that cars in the parking lot burned up. The Buildings are still standing.
Get a grip people..
NYT published a headline with a photo of destroyed buildings somewhere else.. They have not retracted it yet have they?
Same for AP.
You should consider doing more careful research before popping up to lecture the world about your understanding of this incident. Start by reading this, and examining the photos, from the organization that operates the al-Ahli Arab Hospital.
https://www.abmission.org/appeals/emergency-appeals/al-ahli-hospital-emergency-appeal/
I will..
I did. You are calling that proof? Of what? 2 photo’s ?
I get my information mostly from people I have been following for a long time.
And as we learned during the Proxy war in Syria and Iraq, Lies travel much faster than the truth.
https://twitter.com/AGHamilton29/status/1714561416298914276
UPDATE: 18th October 2023
Devastating news. Hundreds killed in strike on the Al-Ahli Hospital in Gaza.
I have looked at a lot of war footage and pictures over the years.
There is no weapon that anyone would bother to put on an airplane and drop that would not at least blow up some cars and knock down trees.
“I have looked at a lot of war footage and pictures over the years.”
Oh, well then . . . 🙄
“There is no weapon that anyone would bother to put on an airplane and drop . . .”
What?
“. . . that would not at least blow up some cars and knock down trees.”
Are there weapons used in air strikes that might do terrible damage and kill many people while not destroying every car for a long distance around (although burning some) and not toppling all the trees within some arbitrary range? Of course there are.
Keep your day job. You aren’t qualified for the big step up to remote bomb damage assessment. And you should limit your hasbara activities to forums where the participants aren’t too bright or well-informed.
Interesting … so you’re saying that
Ayman al-Zawahiri is still alive and that the US was lying about killing him?
Oh my… You are creative, I give you that.
The US lies about most everything especially the Pentagon.
I am speaking about this particular incident.
😈
WHICH hospital? There were THREE HOSPITALS destroyed by Israel, Fitst one — ordered to ecvacuate, then obliterated by 13 direct hits.
Secind hospital — the one Biden disputes PRESUMABLY hit GARDEN AND PARKING LOT. An errant misdile presumably from another (not Hamas) group.
It is not possible to damage tge hospital to such a devree by — first claimed a Hamas rocket, and now by sime another muddile wielding group. Why change of story? It was obviouds that over 500 people killed did not cone from a rocket missfire in a parking liot.
To make point clear today Israel fired on the THIRD hoslita by a tank sbell. Second floor operating rooms and intensive care destroyed.
It is cmear that Israrl wants to destroy all kufe support facilities so Palestinians cannot return to the City, As a government spokesperson explained. UN cab built a tent city In the southern desert to house Palestinians.
Ckearly, no Arab countries will collaborate. Jordan cancelled meeting with Biden. It was for tge best. Tvere arw still around 3 mil Palestinian refugees in Jordan from previous Israel ohases of ethnic clensing.
Dark days.
US always backed every anti-Russian lie. Why it should be different with Arabs?
On a side note, as Mr. Rogers said, when you see scary things in the news look for the helpers. Right now Ahli hospital can use all the help any of us can give it https://afedj.org/tragedy-at-ahli-hospital/
Such a great & meaningful quote – thank you !
Its all just big lies after big lies.
Israel’s intelligence couldn’t stop Hamas’ attack even with a 3 day warning from Egypt but now they have proof that it was Hamas that did this in a matter of less than a day. Sure.
Here’s a time line. I know some people don’t like the source but they actually have coverage from the ground:
Israel’s spin about hospital massacre quickly comes apart
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israels-spin-about-hospital-massacre-quickly-comes-apart
Israeli officials and supporters have been putting out false and contradictory statements in an effort to deny responsibility for an airstrike that killed hundreds of Palestinians at the al-Ahli Arab hospital in Gaza City on Tuesday.
But the attempts at spin have quickly come apart.
Actually initially an Israeli government spokesman said Israel hit the hospital because it was hiding munitions and later deleted the tweet. Then the claim was Hamas hit the hospital but Israel still felt the need to claim (falsely) that the dead weren’t that many – I guess to go along with the notion that it was simply a misfired Hamas rocket. Otherwise why be like, Hamas did this horrible thing but it wasn’t so bad…the statements don’t add up.
Mixed opinions:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061
Still, the intelligence was swift. They had transcripts of conversations amongst the “jihadist” very quickly. And yet, with a three-day warning prior to the invasion, nothing? And we’re talking about Mossad. I just don’t buy it regardless of who was to blame for the hospital blast.
I don’t buy the stupid graphics and the tape was proof of nothing. Unnamed random people, are you kidding me? Plus the tape didn’t actually claim responsibility it was “someone said it was us”.
If there was a neutral party examining the aftermath I might change my mind. I just like to put all information out there.
I might not have worded that correctly. I don’t buy into that either. I was just going by what our government and MSM feeds us and how they ignored the differences of how quicky intelligence was gathered for the hospital blast and the lack thereof after Egypt’s warning. But I do find it hard to believe that Mossad couldn’t have gathered intelligence on what was happening based on how much time the warning was given before the attack.
Have we ruled out the possibility that IDF or Mossadi’i agents at the Gaza hospital perhaps found the uncharred passports of the Hamassian engineers who constructed the missile ? That’s how the 19 Hijackers on 9/11 were ID’d so quick.
It begs the question did the Zionists ignore the warning so they could carry out the operation to rid themselves of Hamas for good ? , like the Americans who will kill their own to get what they want .
That was my implication.
I’ll file Biden’s claim with other USA claims like “we know it was separatists that shot down the Malaysian Airlines flight over Ukraine but the evidence is classified” or “we know Assad used chemical weapons but the evidence is classified”.
That which can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
I dont believe The Mad King either.
An Israeli soldier Didn’t shoot Aljazzera reporter.
SloJo is a corrupt moron.
An American “expert” on CNN today claimed, with a straight face, that “Israel doesn’t bomb hospitals”.
He is just doing what he is getting paid for. The truth be damned. Gimme some $$$.
Lemme guess. Because a ‘missile’ isn’t exactly a ‘bomb’ it’s a true-ism in a very pedantic sense.
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/attacks-health-care-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories-12-15-october-2023
I’m sorry, I was unable to access the website.
Same Biden who told the word he had “seen” evidence of “beheaded babies”, before his staff corrected his claim.
But, this denial is typical of so many others; the US is a master of denying and deflecting responsibility (as in our “righteous strike” that killed 10 kids, or our “elimination of the ISIS number 2” who turned out to be an 80 years old goatherd and grandfather of ten, and on and on)
Israel has an entire department, and huge budget, that issue “Hasbara” (propaganda), and pays for thousands of individuals to search news sites and post pro-israeli opinion, and attack anti israeli posters.
I don’t know who blew up the hospital; but I suspect it was Israel and that the truth will eventually come out; and when it does, there will be crickets.
Israel has an entire department, and huge budget, that issue “Hasbara” (propaganda), and pays for thousands of individuals to search news sites and post pro-israeli opinion, and attack anti israeli posters.
A few popped up right here just recently.
There will be measurements made in all directions. Pacing the blast distances, pacer 1, pacer 2, etc. Measurements and impact point are related. Examine photos; If Hamas mistakenly did this because a missile meant to attack Israel misfired, truth must be told or victory will slip away.
Bullcrap…! Hamas rocket cannot level a hospital building…!
Here some footage for the supporters of Hamas here.
https://youtu.be/wAFDI63yvNQ?si=UG9h1h7sYWUoq9POY
Anyone surprised that Don Julio went from resisting invasions and occupations to justifying them?
Me either. He supports what he is paid to support.
Of course we can trust U.S. intelligence? Right. The same people who didn’t see 9/11 and didn’t see this coming.
Also the same people who have killed at least a million (probably closer to 2 million) innocent people post-911.
The same Intelligence that claimed definitive evidence of Saddam Hussein’s WMDs? THAT American intelligence?
There are different levels of intelligence. Understanding people intent and secret planning not so easy. Tracking a rocket with unjammed radar very easy.
Intelligence had little to do with it, small i and capital I. It’s just a made up take out of necessity because it is stirring up the Arab world on the eve of an unpredictable invasion into Gaza.
Yea, so I guess we should continue funding the ‘Intelligence agencies’ with hundreds of millions of dollars since they do such a good job of monotoring their own citizens, other nations, not so much.
Can we trust Hamas any more?
Not all Palestinians are HAMAS; and the claim that Israel did it comes from American Friends of the Episcopal Diocese of Jerusalem, per the story; not “HAMAS”.
And yes; I would believe anyone over Israel, until actual proof is provided, as they have lied about everything since the state was formed, and are still lying about the USS Liberty incident. They have an entire government department dedicated to Hasbara – government supporting disinformation and lying.
Since we like to call HAMAS “terrorists”, let’s remember that the pre-separation Irgun and Stern Gang, among others, were themselves terrorists; blowing up hotels, using car bombs against civilians, carrying out ethnic cleansing in palestinian villages, and that Menachem Begin himself was a participant in the bombing of the King David hotel, that killed 91 people, including many arab civilians. That’s the “founders” the modern day Israeli state heroizes.
They differ from HAMAS only by degree and the passage of time.
Not all Palestinians are HAMAS True. But all Hamas are Palestinians.
So what?
That’s a completely pointless comment. Especially in the context of the original article.
No more than we can trust the U.S. or Israel intelligence.
The yanks know who did it because they have spy satellites over the war zone , just as they had photo imagery of the passenger plane shot down over Ukraine which to this day they refuse to release because we all know it was the Ukrainians who shot it down.
The same people that promised America that the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was a simple ‘accident’?
Given the video evidence I’ve seen it could go either way (i.e. a failed rocket launch or an Israeli strike). That being said, with the moral depravity evidenced by the IDF I could see them attacking the hospital’s parking lot filled with women and children as a target of opportunity with the nearby rocket fire providing plausible deniability.
Hamas rockets would barely blow up a section of that building … 500-pound bunker buster bombs, however …
From what I understand, and I am open to being corrected, the hospital is intact and the deaths were a result of all the people sheltering in the parking lot where the munition hit. The other possibility is that it was an airburst and a portion of the deaths were from inside the hospital due to shrapnel.
https://x.com/AGHamilton29/status/1714561416298914276?s=20
Real time daylight footage from this morning
https://x.com/AGHamilton29/status/1714561416298914276?s=20
Real time daylight footage from this morning
The hospital is not intact. It wasn’t entirely leveled, but it is not intact.
Many of the casualties were indeed suffered by displaced (by the Israeli assault and threats) people seeking refuge outside.
https://www.abmission.org/appeals/emergency-appeals/al-ahli-hospital-emergency-appeal/
It still seems more plausible to me that given the state of the building the majority of deaths were from the parking lot. I don’t see 500 people dying inside the hospital from shrapnel, but I will reserve judgement until we get a clearer view of what happened.
I’m not aware that anyone with credibility has claimed that all or most of the fatalities or injuries were to people inside the buildings. Indeed, representatives speaking for the Anglican agency that runs the hospital have made statements that seem to indicate that many were outside, where large numbers of Gazans displaced by Israeli bombing, warnings and threats had gathered.
Ok, I have been busy today so I haven’t had much time to do any in depth reading. I’ve just looked at some photos and some of the available video evidence. Prima facie I don’t see any compelling argument for why it could not possibly be the Israelis given that I have read multiple reports of them targeting hospitals and clinics since the bombing began. Like I said I reserve judgement on this particular issue, but to me it is inconsequential for proving the larger picture of the atrocities being perpetrated by the Israelis.
Once they come out with the phony call interception, it’s about three lies too many not to believe they did it. https://x.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1714775482283991172?s=20
Biden did not blast Nordstream after he threatened to. Then Nuland GLOATS its just a piece of junk on the bottom of the sea. Biden denies any responsibility. Next Seymour Harsh outs the operation to blast it on substack. The news oozes out after midnight on a few non mainstream news sites. Next morning, on CBS, NY Times, NBC, ABC & NPR. I listened to the entire BBC news cast that morning, but not even a hint on this, one of most impotent news stories of New Millennium. One of the top nuclear superpowers destroys one of another nuclear superpower’s principle source of income. Surely an existential threat and possible spark to set off a nuclear war. Now it’s that same liar in front of the whole world trying to lie his way out of another way less dangerous situation. One wonders if ANYONE who is paying attention with an IQ above 47 believes him.
“…and possible spark to set off a nuclear war.”
May future history recognize and canonise the unthinkable patience of the Russian. Stanislav Petrov, Vasili Arkhipov, and the current leadership of the Russian Federation.
(I would say his name but, like ‘Beetlejuice’, uttering P—n would draw out the First Prime of the Tequila Twins and give him an opening to spout his pithy Russophobic one-liners in unrelated space)
You will be surprised just how many SHEEP will graze on every word he say`s
“Based on what I’ve seen, it appears as though it was done by the other team”
I’m not gonna make fun of his poor eyesight.
But since he landed in Israel, what did he really see?
1. Briefcase of full of campaign cash?
2. Year supply of best defense attorneys for Hunter?
3. New blackmail?
I don’t think he’s even that coherent anymore. He’s just reading a script and poorly at that.
Did anyone else witness him being interviewed upon his return trip from Israel yesterday?
He was mumbling. Just mumbling.
Horrific to think that this geriatric is “leader of the free world”.
A man with a huge up swinging the poles.
Do you live in the US? You can’t possibly be that much of an Israeli firster to want him re-elected.
Does not matter what you or I want.I would love to see someone better- maybe Tusi G. And you will not define me.
You define yourself every time you make a comment. Israeli firster couldn’t be more accurate.
The “other team” comment is so callous as to boil one’s blood. At least PRETEND like you (Pres. Biden) notice or care it’s actual humans dying.
This is not some literal version of the NFL’s biannual 9/11 Bowl (Jets vs. Patriots).
He sees the Presidency. 70% of Americans black Israel.
83% percent don’t give a damn what takes place in the middle east.
I wonder what he handlers allowed him to be told.
He could easily be lied to, because he is a vulnerable “senior.” Such people in decline are targeted for cash by con men all over the country.
I just want to point out that the “Hamas Charter” that everyone talks about is no longer in effect. Hamas updated that charter in 2017.
Do you have a citation for that? Hamas has certainly issued statements that seem much more moderate, but I’m not aware that the charter has been revised to eliminate the call for the destruction of Israel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter
I should have been more careful with my writing, but Hamas has never accepted Israel’s right to exist and has never abandoned its commitment to armed opposition to the Israeli state. It has, as I said, softened its language and moderated its interim goals. And that’s all that the Wikipedia article and the cited references indicate. Those are good things, as far as they go, but in the context of the real world in Gaza, they don’t go very far, as this month’s horror show demonstrates.
Also, it wasn’t clear in 2017 that the document presented then was an updated charter or something else. The document doesn’t call itself a charter or a revision.
Here’s what Reuters had to say at the time: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinians-hamas-document-idUSKBN17X1N8
The devil, as always, is in the details.
There’s an article by Ran HaCohen from 2006 on the recognition angle.
https://original.antiwar.com/hacohen/2006/04/24/why-we-cannot-talk-with-hamas/
Right. As HaCohen said then, Hamas’ public refusal to recognize Israel’s right to exist wasn’t a good reason not to talk with them. Israel and Hamas are known to have engaged in talks, of course, mostly apparently through back channels that are or were secret.
I still don’t think there’s any publicly-known evidence that Hamas has revised its charter in a way that indicates willingness to recognize Israel’s right to exist.
That may be true, wars are chaotic. That said, the IDF has lied in the past, the Pentagon has lied in the past, Hamas probably has lied too.
An independent investigation is needed to establish once for all who is responsible for the hospital bombing. You can bet that both Israel and the United States would never agree to this. The United States will oppose any attempt to establish an independent investigation. Ask yourself why.
Only Switzerland can do that.
Where’s the evidence?
Well the yanks would say that wouldn`t they , the fact is without the backing of the yanks the Zionists would have been forced to the negotiating table 40 years ago and there would now be two states and probably no wars .
UK Channel 4, yesterday. Five minutes.
https://www.channel4.com/news/who-was-behind-the-gaza-hospital-blast-visual-investigation
..the MOSSAD’s MOTTO..which is displayed around their emblem is..
BY DECEPTION thou MAKE WAR..
911 EVERYONE..ENDLESS WARS..HOMELAND SECURITY… PATRIOT ACT..etc..
ISRAEL is MORDOR
…and I don’t believe for a minute that 1400 Israelis are dead..where..show me the bodies
…BY DECEPTION THOU MAKE WAR
MOSSAD’S MOTTO
You know that if there were a large pile of dead ravers as the media reported that it would be splashed all over every new channel on the planet.
..and we’re to believe that Hamas had a year to plan and unlimited resources..and their plan was to fly in with the most loud, obnoxious inefficient devices..hit a PEACE FAIR..and kill woman and kids…take hostages..attacked NO MILITARY targets..and bring unending bad publicity and death and destruction on Gaza and your cause..THAT WAS THEIR PLAN??
While the notorious Mossad didn’t know a damn thing that was about to go down. But we’ll believe them when they figure out who bombed the hospital within hours after it happened.
…and almost EVERY REPUBLICAN..is seeing who can grovel and suck ISRAELI BALLS the best..where was all this fight when the deep state lock is down.destroyed business and kids..FORCED DEVILS DOSE into our bodies..MASK…OPEN BORDERS and DESTROYED CITIES..BROKE CITIZENS..nothing…but for… IS REAL HELL..
their frothing at the mouth
The US have continued to cover Israeli actions. Remember the Liberty.
“ At least 20 Egyptian soldiers were burned alive and buried in an unmarked mass grave during the Six Day War, Ynet’s Yossi Melman revealed on Friday.
The incident was initially classified but was declassified 55 years later”
The Jerusalem host 07/08/2022
“ Israel was founded on lies. The lie that Palestinian land was largely unoccupied. The lie that 750,000 Palestinians fled their homes and villages during their ethnic cleansing by Zionist militias in 1948 because they were told to do so by Arab leaders. The lie that it was Arab armies that started the 1948 war that saw Israel seize 78 percent of historic Palestine. The lie that Israel faced annihilation in 1967, forcing it to invade and occupy the remaining 22 percent of Palestine, as well as land belonging to Egypt and Syria.
Israel is sustained by lies. The lie that Israel wants a just and equitable peace and will support a Palestinian state. The lie that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. The lie that Israel is an “outpost of Western civilization in a sea of barbarism.” The lie that Israel respects the rule of law and human rights.
Israel’s atrocities against the Palestinians are always greeted with lies. I heard them. I recorded them. I published them in my stories for The New York Times when I was the paper’s Middle East Bureau Chief.
I covered war for two decades, including seven years in the Middle East. I learned quite a bit about the size and lethality of explosive devices. There is nothing in the arsenal of Hamas or Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) that could have replicated the massive explosive power of the missile that killed an estimated 500 civilians in the al-Ahli Arab Christian hospital in Gaza. Nothing. If Hamas or Palestinian Islamic Jihad had these kinds of missiles, huge buildings in Israel would be rubble with hundreds of dead. They don’t.
The whistling sound, audible on the video moments before the explosion, appears to comes from the high velocity of a missile. This sound gives it away. No Palestinian rocket makes this noise. And then there is the speed of the missile. Palestinian rockets are slow and lumbering, clearly visible as they arch in the sky and then tumble in free fall towards their targets. They do not strike with precision or travel at close to supersonic speed. They are incapable of killing hundreds of people…”
https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/israels-culture-of-deceit
“ The Israeli military dropped “roof knocking” rockets with no warheads on the hospital in the days leading up to the Oct. 17 strike, the familiar warning given by Israel to evacuate buildings, according to al-Ahli hospital officials. Hospital officials also said they had received calls from Israel saying “we warned you to evacuate twice.” Israel has demanded that all hospitals in northern Gaza be evacuated.
Following the strike on the hospital, Hananya Naftali, a “digital aide” to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, posted on X, formerly Twitter: “Israeli Air Force struck a Hamas terrorist base inside a hospital in Gaza.” The post was quickly deleted.”
https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/israels-culture-of-deceit
The US also backs various lies about Nordstream Pipeline.
The problem is not just the lies, it is the credibility pass given to them by those who know full well it is lies. We LET them lie to us, we KNOW they are lying to us, and then we PRETEND it is not happening.
Again. One more in a long list.
There is no accountability for lies, mismanagement, and killing. They just go on their way leaving mayhem in their path, and we smile and express “doubts” about the lies.
USS Liberty.
“ ISRAEL’S HUSH-UP MACHINE was in overdrive in March while this writer was in the Middle East. A story resurfaced that Egyptian prisoners had been executed in both the 1956 and 1967 Israeli-Egyptian wars, which is certainly true. Israel then changed its story to say that the prisoners were Palestinian fighters and not Egyptians. With each successive day the stories became so confusing that, except in Egypt itself, the allegation received less and less coverage. So it’s time for a refresher review of Israeli atrocities.
In the words of the late Israeli Gen. Moshe Dayan: “The declaration of the State of Israel in 1948 was at the expense of ethnically cleansing 513 Palestinian villages, creating over 700,000 Palestinian refugees and expropriating their lands, homes and businesses in 78 percent of Palestine…There is not one single place built in this country that did not have a former population.”
Here are some events of the mid-20th century that should be emblazoned in the minds of Americans. An early atrocity is described on the Web site of Deir Yassin Remembered, : “Early in the morning of April 9, 1948, commandos of the Irgun, headed by Menachem Begin, and the Stern Gang [both Jewish extremist terrorist groups] attacked Deir Yassin, a village with about 750 Palestinian residents. It was several weeks before the end of the British Mandate. The village lay outside the area that the United Nations recommended be included in a future Jewish state. Deir Yassin had a peaceful reputation and was even said by a Jewish newspaper to have driven out some Arab militants. But it was located on high ground in the corridor between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem…
“By noon over 100 people, half of them women and children, had been systematically murdered. Four commandos died at the hands of resisting Palestinians using old Mausers and muskets. Twenty-five male villagers were loaded into trucks, paraded through the Zakhron Yosef quarter in Jerusalem, and then taken to a stone quarry along the road between Givat Shaul and Deir Yassin and shot to death. The remaining residents were driven to Arab East Jerusalem.”
That evening Irgunists and Sternists described the operation to foreign correspondents. “They said that 25 members of the Haganah militia had reinforced the attack and claimed that an Arabic-speaking Jew had warned the villagers over a loudspeaker from an armored car.” This was duly reported in The New York Times on April 10. A final body count of 254 was reported by The New York Times on April 13, a day after they were finally buried…”
https://www.wrmea.org/2007-may-june/israels-hush-up-machine-in-action-denying-story-israel-executed-egyptian-prisoners.html
Whenever The Israeli Government trots out Mark Regev, their resident propagandist, to tell us that Israel does not bomb hospitals as he did a couple of days ago you immediately know it’s a lie. Mark Regev is to Netanyahu what Joseph Geobbels was to Hitler.