Most senior US officials want to keep supporting the proxy war against Russia and are not looking for diplomatic off-ramps despite Ukraine’s faltering counteroffensive, Washington Post columnist David Ignatius reported on Sunday.
Ignatius writes: “I heard this same sentiment across all levels of the US government in recent days. The summer has been frustrating and, in some ways, disappointing for Ukraine and its Western backers. But rather than look for a quick diplomatic exit ramp, most senior US officials appear more convinced than ever of the need to stand fast with Kyiv. The United States, in their view, cannot be seen to abandon its ally.”
US intelligence has determined Ukraine’s counteroffensive will fail to meet its core objective of severing Russia’s land bridge to Crimea, but the US is still pressing Ukraine to push harder and concentrate its forces to make a push toward the Sea of Azov in the south. Ignatius said the US thinks Ukraine could still do some damage to Russian forces but doesn’t expect a “decisive blow.”
“That means a continuation of this grueling war into 2024 and beyond, and a continuation of the heavy casualties and emotional trauma for both sides,” Ignatius said. “US officials believe strategic patience remains the best weapon against Russian President Vladimir Putin, who still thinks he can outlast Ukraine and the West.”
As the Biden administration is expecting to keep fueling the war for years to come, US officials are considering ways to provide Ukraine with more forms of support. One idea is to send more types of widely-banned cluster munitions, which can kill and maim civilians for decades after the war. “There’s growing backing in Washington for providing rocket-launched cluster munitions, for example, which could strike deeper than the artillery-fired versions the United States began supplying last month,” Ignatius wrote.
Ignatius said US officials are expecting Ukraine to increase drone attacks on Russian territory as its forces are struggling on the ground. On Friday, Russia’s Defense Ministry said Ukraine launched 42 drones on Crimea, and Ignatius said the attack “is a foretaste of what’s ahead.”
Since Russia invaded Ukraine last year, the Biden administration has discouraged diplomacy and fueled the conflict by pouring tens of billions of dollars worth of weapons into the war zone. Ahead of Ukraine’s counteroffensive, Secretary of State Antony Blinken rejected the idea of a ceasefire even though reports indicated the US did not believe the Ukrainian assault would be a success.
US intelligence has become an oxymoron. Many of the people who work for our Federal government lack the critical thinking skills to effectively run this country. It is increasingly becoming a complete disaster.
But …. its not a disaster for US defense contractor’s bottom line which has greatly improved since February 2022.
Their profit is our loss.
Right, they’re robbing us of education, health care, infrastructure, green environment, ….
Everything we need. Everything. Ike made a few mistakes, but not his warning about the MIC. George Washington warned about a large standing army that was a danger to Republican governance. Adams warned about seeking “monsters to destroy”.
But they only warned off “monsters”, that is big powers. They continued to enforce and expand against small countries.
Heck yeah! Yahoo! Corks are popping! Companies are buying back their shares like nobody’s business. Yowza!!!!
I have never thought of calling intelligence services an oxymoron due to intelligence being in the name, this is the first time I’ve seen it. Well done.
Next year, yes, but there are serious doubts about beyond.
It is understandable why US rulers are so exited about their idea of defeating Russia in Ukraine. If they could defeat Russia, BRICS also could be defeated. And other way around: the defeat of NATO in Ukraine makes BRICS the leading geopolitical organization. It was already announced by BRICS leaders that only those countries can be the members of BRICS who are not participating in the sanction war against the other members of BRICS. The list of candidates to BRICS is long and it will be much longer. All of them are denouncing US international leadership.
As long as we have the Fed printing press, there will be continuation.
NATO has already lost; 466 Aircraft, 247 helicopters, 6152 UAV’s, 433 Anti Aircraft systems, 11527 tanks inc. APC’s, 1144 multiple rocket launchers, 6079 field artillery and 12463 military automotive equipment. Approx. $1 Trillion of NATO hardware.
The AFU committed its last reserve brigade with western equipment to its disastrous so called counter-offensive. It will get ground up just like the forces it is replacing. Approx. $1 trillion of NATO support. Keep in mind Ukraine was the biggest and most equipped NATO army in Europe and Russia just mauled them.
NATO has already won and will win even more … hundreds of billions of $ in new and replacement orders … which is NATO’s primary reason to exist.
NATO might be able to outspend Russia (if voters put up with irresponsible spending during hard times). But Ukraine cannot continue sacrificing its male population indefinitely. Ukraine is already drafting men aged 18 to 60 and preventing all males older than 16 fleeing the country.
I agree … this is going to be a relatively short, though very lucrative, grift …
Exactly what happened in Germany when the Red Army mauled the NAZIS they even put children in the front line , anyone who thinks Ukraine is going to beat Russia needs to get their head out of their ass .
In the end, Germany turned to putting kids with weapons to defend the Motherland.
Russia is working on that. Need some evidence?
Whoops…
https://twitter.com/georgewbarros/status/1696222625955983830?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1696222625955983830%7Ctwgr%5Ea7e4d945d9be0ae1d4db62743f9cb4e1b217ba92%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstories%2F2023%2F8%2F28%2F2190142%2F-Ukraine-Update-As-the-Surokivin-Line-starts-to-crumble-the-general-who-made-it-is-still-missing
Uh huh…
https://twitter.com/georgewbarros/status/1696222625955983830?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1696222625955983830%7Ctwgr%5Ea7e4d945d9be0ae1d4db62743f9cb4e1b217ba92%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstories%2F2023%2F8%2F28%2F2190142%2F-Ukraine-Update-As-the-Surokivin-Line-starts-to-crumble-the-general-who-made-it-is-still-missing
The Neocons will support this war to the last Ukrainian boob who will die for the good of America’s defense contractors.
The money laundering operation will continue unabated. Fify.
“And beyond…” what? The grave?
Russia could level every government building in Kiev if they wanted to, but don’t. This is how they are repaid, Zelensky doing everything he can to attack Russian government buildings, airports and train stations.
The attacks against train stations, airports etc in Russia are by definition terror attacks. Will the U.S. classify Ukraine as a terrorist nation?
(Terrorism: terrorize a group or a people with violence and the threat of violence to make them change their behavior or change their political opinions, to weaken their support for their leaders, to hold up a victory for your own side, sometimes to make an enemy overreact which can then be used by your side’s messaging, to improve your faction’s standing in relation to other factions on your own side, without the aim of the attacks being to provide material or at least no significant material advantage in the conflict.)
Moscow has a population of 12 million, close to 20 million if you count the surroundings, and the drone attacks are pinpricks. They don’t scare anyone, being late for work is a bigger problem.
However, the attacks do anger Russians who see that their side is simply protecting Donbass from invasion, then see how the Ukrainians keep shelling the civilians in Donetsk with U.S. artillery shells even now in war time, attack Russian cities as much as they are able to, and send groups across the Russian border to kill villagers. The killing and hostage-taking of villagers is glorified on Ukrainian social media and held up as “resistance to Putin” in Biden-loyal media.
No wonder Russia’s military gets far more than 1,000 new recruits every day. While Ukraine’s army is depleted, Russia’s is stronger than when the war began. Russian officials are now giving strong hints of an offensive in the coming weeks.
So keep it up, send the drones, and prove Russia’s government right.
“Russia could level every government building in Kiev if they wanted to, but don’t. This is how they are repaid, Zelensky doing everything he can to attack Russian government buildings, airports and train stations.”
Yeah, why is Zelensky attacking a peaceful country. It’s not like that country invaded and annexed their land and has been destroying their civilian infrastructure since Feb 2022.
Another one who has no idea as to what is going on like how did this war start ? , who was behind the Coup in Ukraine , who said F the EU ect ect ect , thats the problem with many posters they are just SHEEP who graze on the Western Propaganda , unable to think for themselves .
Oh i do. It started with Russia never accepting Ukraine being is own nation, weaponizing natural gas flow to the country and blackmailing them since 1991.
I’d rather be a western sheep than a Russian one like you.
I can speak my mind in the West. You cant in Russia. And here you are selling us Russian propaganda because you dont have a choice.
You never make sense, you are just wasting time.
Just ignore him. He is the same. Day after day after day. Puts you to sleep reading him.
And you are the sane pro Russia blogger here pretending to be antiwar.
I dont put you to sleep. I hurt your dreams.
See, i dont let you spread your Kremlin propaganda here. I call your BS out each time and you hate that.
So bring it on, shoigu.
“Russia could level every government building in Kiev if they wanted to, but don’t”
“Russia could level every government building in Kiev if they wanted to, but don’t.”
Of course Russia could do that. In a big hurry. How could that not be obvious to you?
Well, yes, if Russia wanted to use nuclear weapons, it could do that.
Otherwise, not so much. The Ukrainians have pretty good air/missile defenses.
It’s not a matter of taking the gloves off. The gloves have been off for 18 months now. It just turns out there’s not nearly as much iron in the fists as most people assumed before they came off.
That’s simply wrong. And it’s odd, because you seem to have a good understanding of military matters.
Ukraine did have pretty good air defenses, but Russia has been picking them off regularly since just after the truck bombing of the Kerch Strait Bridge and they are now seriously degraded. And the US-NATO hasn’t been able to come close to alleviating that problem. In any case, Russia has always been capable, and is probably more capable now than previously, of massive saturation attacks, on Kiev, for instance, that would thoroughly overwhelm Ukrainian AD.
“The gloves have been off for 18 months now. It just turns out there’s not nearly as much iron in the fists as most people assumed before they came off.”
I don’t understand how any knowledgeable observer can conclude that Russia has been fighting an all out, gloves off war. That is clearly not the case and it seems quite obvious why it is not happening. Russia is being careful. The Kremlin doesn’t want a hot war with the US-NATO that could easily become something much worse for everyone — everyone — than the mess we’re already in.
The careful, measured approach is working. Much of the annexed territory is securely under Russian control and it doesn’t look like Ukraine is capable of taking back any appreciable portion of it. The most important result of the failed “counteroffensive” over the past (nearly) three months has been massive losses of Ukrainian troops and materiel. Russia is fighting a slow, steady war of attrition and Ukraine is attrited.
Let’s pretend for a moment that your assessment is correct, that there isn’t nearly as much iron in the Russian first as many thought there was, and that what we’ve seen and are seeing is the very best Russia can do, with the gloves off. If that’s true, it is also true that Ukraine and its sponsors and masters have proven themselves utterly incapable of overcoming the blows of that feeble Russian fist.
The feeble Russian fist still hasn’t secured Donetsk oblast, where it supposedly enjoys the support of the population, after 18 months.
That’s not because it hasn’t tried.
It’s because it hasn’t been able to.
And every godddamn day for the last 18 months I’ve heard “oh, you REALLY pissed them off, the GLOVES ARE ABOUT TO COME OFF.”
At some point, “oh, they’re just not really TRYING yet” stops sounding plausible.
“And every godddamn day for the last 18 months I’ve heard ‘oh, you REALLY pissed them off, the GLOVES ARE ABOUT TO COME OFF.'”
You’ve never heard that from me, nor will you. I very much doubt that Russia has any intention of taking the gloves off and fighting a no-holds-barred war. But it seems clear to me, as it clearly does not to you, that it is choice, not incapacity or inability, that drives Russia’s operations.
We’ll know the Kremlin has changed its collective mind when we see a general mobilization. Let’s hope we don’t.
“Of course Russia could do that. In a big hurry. How could that not be obvious to you?”
‘Fraid it is not obvious to me either, Dissident – in its proxy war, the US and NATO have provided truly vast quantities of materiel…including antiaircraft/missile defense systems that, as I understand it, actually do provide considerable air protection.
Anyone making that claim needs to be prepared to support it, not simply wave it away, imo.
It’s simple: Every credible estimate of Russia’s stockpiles and production rates of missiles of various kinds, drones, etc., including estimates by Ukrainian and Western intelligence agencies, make it clear that Russia can easily assemble and launch a saturation attack (you can look up the term) sufficient to overwhelm Ukraine’s air defenses at virtually any location. It’s not really even a controversial claim.
Russia hasn’t done that to, e.g., command and control and other key government targets in Kiev not because it can’t but because it has decided not to. No doubt there are lots of reasons for that decision, probably including not wanting to deplete stockpiles and simply not wanting to destroy more than necessary, but it’s clearly a matter of choice, not of inability.
“Russia hasn’t done that to, e.g., command and control and other key government targets in Kiev not because it can’t but because it has decided not to. No doubt there are lots of reasons for that decision, probably including not wanting to deplete stockpiles”
a/ If it can’t be done w/o “deplet[ing]” finite “stockpiles” – used for what Russia’s military planners evidently see as the strategic priority of defending taken territory, and – presumably – preparing for future offenses, then it cannot – as a practical matter – be done.
To underscore this: it might be possible technically; but, as a practical military goal, your own reasoning suggests that concentrating all its long distance firepower on Kiev would unacceptably “deplete stockpiles” needed elsewhere.
b/ Therefore – if such an attack is never going to happen (and I think you think it never will) – it becomes essential to ask: Why the hell would anyone declare ‘Russia could flatten Kiev if it wanted to!’ in the first place? What is the argumentative purpose of that counter-factual.
What’s really behind it, I believe, is an impatient fantasy of Russian omnipotence, and an impatient fantasy of victory – of ending this ‘forever war’ by
smashing ‘the Ukrainian political nerve center.’
c/ But – to my knowledge, this kind of rah-rah-ism is not even a part of Russia’s public strategic or political discourse: Russia’s talking about the long haul, which, imo, is realistic, due to the US/west’s extreme investment in fighting this war to the last Ukrainian.
Rather, it is an idea of a narrow slice of more-or-less ‘modern communist’ western citizens who project their older vision onto the post-communist Russia.
Upshot: the whole conjecture is wrongheaded.
d/ Last: even technically, could it be done? Well, that is still arguable. To my knowledge, you are not a military expert, and basically base your argument on ‘back of the napkin’ math, with no evaluation of the specific strength of Kiev’s current anti-artillery defenses, nor of what your ‘invincible super-strategy’ of ‘saturation bombing’ would look like on the ground, or politically:
not the duration; and, therefore, not what counter-measures the West/Ukraine would respond with; not what the west’s proxy military would do elsewhere during such an attack; and not political impact – either on ‘western opinion,’ or on Russia’s allies in such an attack on a populous city.
Stop making shit up. No one said that it “can’t be done.” Except you.
Hardliners in Russia wanted full on “shock and awe” from the beginning.
Amen
“Zelensky doing everything he can to attack Russian government buildings, airports and train stations.”
Advance thanks for linking to a Russian government or news source stating Ukraine “attack[ed] Russian…airports and train stations.”
“No wonder Russia’s military gets far more than 1,000 new recruits every day.”
Advance thanks for supporting an otherwise worthless claim. Two claims, actually – the #’s and the motives for joining.
That’s it. Keep pouring money and weapons into the jaws of defeat! Will the USA ever rid itself of the military madness and its agents? What’s to stop them when after every war that the USA “loses” the strategy of waging war is considered a “mistake” instead of a “crime initiated by lies”? Lack of accountability is slowly eating the heart out of the USA body!
Been at it for over 200 years… Haven’t learned anything yet. So, when are they going to learn?
Trick question?
You have to realize the MIC is a large part of the US economy , nearly every state in the US has a weapons manufacturer so people arn`t really going to be calling for a end to for ever wars are they you don`t bite the hand that feeds you .
Right you are! Can you imagine how much worse our trade deficits would be if we didn’t export war materiel all over the world?
All a “trade deficit” means is “we’re getting a lot more for our money than we’re giving them for theirs.” Exports are a cost, the price we pay for imports.
That said, we’d probably be much better off economically if we were making things useful in a peacetime economy rather than stuff to kill people with.
It would be cheaper to buy the oil for a fair price than go to war in order to control other nations oil only to profit the nations oil giants and drill and drill destroying our environment. Education, and parks, and housing, and public transportation, and quality daycare, and early childhood development, all of that is job creation, and improvement of quality of life, not only money.
Peace and prosperity go together. Look at Sweden, Switzerland, Finland, and Austria, all are neutral countries with high standards of living and quality of life.
Ignatius said
Russia’s Defense Ministry said Ukraine launched 42 drones on Crimea, and Ignatius said the attack “is a foretaste of what’s ahead.” He forgot to mention that none of the 42 survived Russia’s countermeasures.
Eventually, Ukraine will discover that using drones against protected targets is a waste of drones. They have already discovered that Russia retaliates after such strikes with considerably more destruction.
The nature of war has been changed by the use of drones by both sides. I have little doubt that they will evolve into more deadly versions. They are particularly good for attacking moving targets. But Russia is upgrading its artillery to do the same, and can build drones as quickly as Ukraine. Ignatius should be told that no plan survives first contact with the enemy.
“Senior US Officials Expect to Back Ukraine Against Russia Into Next Year and Beyond”
I expect a Christmas present delivered by a 20 year old elf with a skimpy outfit.
The American political and Democratic system is dead. That is all.
money money money money!
US tax payers must be soft in the head trillions spent on war mongering while they exist on being one pay check away from bankruptcy , millions with out health insurance ect ect ect .
US officials are corrupt, they are bought and paid for by the MIC and other corporate war profiteers. That is the only explanation for the total denials of simple COMMON SENSE POLITICS with a sense of responsibility and a conscience. Only criminal minds can do as they do, they will go on committing genocide on the Ukrainian people for money and power. No opposition in congress or in MSM, that tells what kind of corrupt government we have. We do know that Biden and Trump are crooks. But their personal crimes shrink compared to the continuing genocide of the Ukrainian people, the total destruction of their nation, the war crimes in continuation of Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Gaza, and more. Wherever NATO is involved they leave an ocean of blood and death. Our so-called democratic leaders are the children of devils, unspeakable evil.
It is time we call the evil what it is. The USA/NATO PROVOKED THE WAR, THEY REFUSE to engage in DIPLOMATIC NEGOTIATIONS WITH RUSSIA, the door is wide open and they refuse to go through the door.
Only people without character, integrity, and conscience can act like this.
There are no war crimes in Gaza-tragedy yes-but terrorists must be hunted down.
Sorry to say it, the Gaza-tragedy is genocide, if we are honest with ourselves we know it. The Israeli and Palestinian Semite people used to live together in Palestine when Palestine was a British colony. Now it is a war between two Semitic people over land like all the other nations fight for land. The Palestinian people have every right under international law to fight for their rights against an occupier, and the Israelis, the occupiers, are being judged by their actions like any other nation. It is national, not ethnic and not religion, it is a human rights question.
One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.
Off topic.
So far, the Russian position for negotiation seems to be “give me everything I want, and I’ll go away, except for from the places I want … and for now.”
Which is the same as the US/EU/NATO/Ukraine position.
“We graciously offer you a ‘neutrality’ that leaves us in possession of both territory that’s arguably seceded from you, and of territory that we conducted a fake ‘referendum’ allowing us to ‘annex,’ as well as with complete veto power over all your future national defense activities” is not a serious offer of “negotiation.” It’s a demand that a rump Ukraine return to its former status as a Russian imperial satrapy.
And therefor hundreds of thousands of people will continue to be thrown into the maw.
Yep.
That’s what politics inevitably leads to, sooner or later.
“It’s the universal soldier and he really is to blame. . .” Buffy St. Marie
You do know, the Russians did offer neutrality, they wanted no land at all, Mearsheimer and others have said that over and over, they had offered it in Dec. 2021 when the Biden gang turned it down, ask Jeffery Sachs, he spoke with the Biden people and they told him no, no diplomacy. Don’t make up fairy tales. Now after the baby fell down in the well you want to change the game. It is de facto a US/NATO war, Ukrainians were thrown under the bus, because Biden is determined to get regime change and break up of the RF. It is Biden’s war. The Minsk agreements offered neutrality also, the US did not support the agreements. You are dishonest, you twist the facts to suit your narrative. NATO IS A PROXIE organization to fight and pay for American hegemon interests. After Ukraine the Biden gang will use Europe and NATO as proxies to fight Russia and China for American hegemon interests, if he can, he could win the election. And Nuland would replace him as the next president.
Merkel blurted out that Minsk I & II were stalling measures. Subterfuge not???
The US did not participate in the negotiations, Putin knew what Merkel & Holland knew, but I think Putin thought they would support to implement the agreements. But the cowardly Europeans let him down again.
From outside looking in, that is what I think.
Putin made the big mistake to trust the Europeans.
They knew and Putin must have too because the USA did not participate in the negotiations, that must have been a signal. Putin may have trusted or hoped the French and Germans would help to back-up the implementation. Some day the historians might get the documents, but not in our life time.
Merkel was and still is a politician, she never risked political capital, she is a coward. She does not have the courage and integrity to speak up and tell what really happened. She could help to end the slaughter, but she does not have the courage to do what her conscience tells her she should do.
“Neutrality” wasn’t Russia’s to “offer.”
The only way one state gets to dictate to another is by force of arms or the threat thereof.
Which is exactly how it came out.
I’ve been VERY clear that the US and NATO tried to provoke Putin to war (and he took the bait) at Ukraine’s expense. And I’ve never said anything BUT that NATO is a US proxy. The only one who’s being dishonest here is you in continually attributing to me the exact opposite of the positions I actually hold and clearly state.
You’re just pissed off that I don’t pretend your gold-plated tin god is some extra-special-super-glorious-unequaled “statesman.”
Nuland wouldn’t want to be president. She prefers to exercise power from behind the throne, like Kissinger or Shoigu.
Neutrality is an agreement WITH other states they share borders. It takes at least two to make peace, neutrality works the same way, it takes at least two.
Why do you obsess over the word statesman? You think Putin is a thug and I see in him a statesman, so what? I did explain why I think he is a statesman, you don’t have to agree.
“You think Putin is a thug and I see in him a statesman”
I see in him a statesman, too.
It’s just that “statesmen” is a variety of “thug.”
I would say you should trust your own judgement and ignore the governments narrative it is nothing but lies, lies and more lies.
I agree 1000%.
And that recommendation is valid with respect to ALL governments.
But I have the courage to back up my conviction.
But you, as is your habit, you want it both ways. Statesman is not plural, he is or he is not, he can’t be a pick out of a variety show.
Mearsheimer’s of the opinion Putin had no other choice than to invade Ukraine. I’m no Mearsheimer but if a hostile nuclear power can put nukes on your border & within 5-10 mins of your capital, is on record intending a regime change, and has published a colorful map of the 7 states it will make “decolonizing you” what about that three-fer is alluring as opposed to an existential threat to your nation state.
As to Putin’s extra-special-super-glorious-unequaled “statesman” – he’s credited with negotiating BRICS to a consensus of 6-new members from a start of none-3-10. Is consensus – or negotiation for that matter – even in the US’s postmodern diplomacy dictionary?
George Brennan predicted what we have today. He said Russia would be provoked into doing something.
“Mearsheimer’s of the opinion Putin had no other choice than to invade Ukraine.”
Yes — because Mearsheimer’s version of realism is a iron law of “great power politics” that he believes players of that game have no ability to stray very far from. And he may be right. That supposed iron law is why he is also of the opinion that Chinese expansionism will necessarily end in war between China and America, for the same reasons: The Americans will feel threatened and reluctantly lash out because they have “no other choice.”
There are other versions of foreign policy realism, of course. Like Thomas Pepinsky’s:
“Russia is not a great power. It is obviously a declining power … Given this, it is not NATO’s responsibility to protect Russian state security interests. It is Russia’s responsibility to give wide berth to NATO, recognizing — as every realist should — that the strong do what they will, the weak do what they must …. Invading Ukraine was a stupid strategic error made by a declining power that does not understand The Tragedy of Great Power Politics (the title of a Mearsheimer book).”
I personally have no strong moral opinions on the Russia/Ukraine war other than that war is bad. I’d be quite happy if the populations of both countries rose up, hanged their “leaders,” and made peace. If peace is made by their “leaders,” I don’t give a tinker’s damn how they divvy up the people they consider their livestock or the land they consider their ranches. I dislike Zelenskyy and Biden at least as much as I dislike Putin, and maybe even a little more.
Putin was in a bad situation, and handled it badly. Par for the course with “statesmen.”
I’d be quite happy if the populations of both countries rose up, hanged their “leaders,”
Well, you’re going to have half your wish fulfilled.
Unlikely in the short term.
6 new members of an organization that has done nothing.
The signed Minsk agreements were
The Minsk PEACE AGREEMENTS. 2015
Russia offered PEACE in return for Ukraine to not enter any military alliance against Russia AND provide the Russian speaking Ukrainians equal rights, autonomy, the right to practice their orthodox religion and speak and teach in their language. It was to stop the civil war and turn Ukraine in a neutral state like Austria.
Zelensky run his election promising PEACE but after the election he tossed the peace agreement with the silent consent of the Biden warmongers.
Ukraine could have been a second Austria.
Putin offered the same conditions again in Dec. 2022 two month before the conflict, Biden said no, Jeffery Sachs called the Biden people trying to convince them to accept the offer, again at the beginning of March 2022 Zelensky was close and initialed negotiation of a new agreement with Russia, but the infamous Boris Johnson came to stop it, Biden was not ready for a settlement Zelensky was told.
The cowardly Europeans stood silently by, Biden paid them well for that by blowing up their LG pipelines, so much for the alliance, an act of war against a member, Germany.
“Putin offered the same conditions again in Dec. 2022”
Actually, Russia’s demands were greater – basically, rolling back a quarter century of NATO encroachment.
But Ukrainian neutrality and the protection of ethnic Russians was at the heart of it, and would have satisfied Russia:
as I remarked recently, no surprise that, as reported on these pages, NATO unofficially floated the ‘Russia keeps the east but we NATO-ize the rest’ idea – vs. Ukraine getting back territory, extending NATO has always been the US’s core foreign policy goal.
I meant Dec. 2021, my typo. No big deal, just for the record.
You seem to be leaving out one key element of the Minsk agreements: Referendums in Luhansk and Donetsk.
Referendums which could not be held until and unless monitors from the OSCE certified the conditions were safe on the ground for voting.
Which those monitors couldn’t do, because the separatists refused them access to the area.
Merkel and Holland said the agreements were never meant to be implemented. If they had they could have taken care of the Referendum. Were there is a will there is a way.
“Which those monitors couldn’t do, because the separatists refused them access to the area.”
Were conditions “safe on the ground” for voting or for monitoring voting?
I’m ignorant of this – would like a link.
“Were conditions ‘safe on the ground’ for voting or for monitoring voting?”
We’ll never know, because the separatists made damn sure that couldn’t be investigated.
The OSCE Special Monitoring Mission status reports are available here.
Its daily and spot reports are available here.
THAT ORGANIZATION TOO HAS BEEN INFILTRADED BY AMERICAN CIA AND LIKELY UK MI6 people too. THERE ARE NO TRUSTWORTHY INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTIONS LEFT. EVEN THE UN has lost all credibility, only the UN rapporteurs can be trusted, they resign when their reports get changed and edited, it happens.
We know it wasn’t safe because the Sector Right Nazis said they wouldn’t recognize the cease fire or the legitimacy of Minsk.
They couldn’t accommodate the OSCE because the Ukrainians wouldn’t live up to the ceasefire which was the precursor to all the other elements of the agreement which the West and Ukraine now admit was not signed in good faith.
Neither side “lived up to the ceasefire.”
And no one signed Minsk “in good faith” unless it was perhaps the OSCE (“the west” was not signatory at all — the signatories were the OSCE, and the Ukrainian, Russian, and two separatist regimes). All of the involved regimes were just playing for time to win the war there.
Maybe Putin was the only one who wanted peace earnestly? In my opinion the really twofaced people were the neo-Nazi Ukrainians and the neocon Americans, the regime change before was not meant to make peace with Russia, that was not on the Obama/Biden minds and certainly not the intention of the warmongering Nuland. The goal of the neocon & neo-Nazi mafia was and still is total control of the Russian natural mineral resources.
The Europeans knew the twofaced Americans could not be trusted and so did Putin. But hope grows eternally. The continental Europeans of the time did not want war on their continent and that includes Putin.
There was a referendum before the Russians took military action to end the civil war and the killing of Russian Ukrainians.
Yr way more coherent, evidently knowledgeable, and reasoned on military strategy.
1/ “The Russian position for negotiation”? So what?
It’s a truism that in negotiation both sides go in w/maximalist demands – vs. making a “serious offer of ‘negotiation'” before sitting down.
This matters because, as you surely know, “Russia’s position” is used to rationalize US opposition to – and obstruction of – negotiation.
2/ “[A]nd for now”? Advance thanks for supporting an otherwise worthless claim.
3/ “complete veto power over all your future national defense activities”? No nuclear superpower will give another nuclear superpower the power to lay nuclear missiles on its border, if it has the power to stop it. But beyond the ‘neutrality’ issue – ie, the main rationale for invasion…
…advance thanks for supporting an otherwise worthless claim about what “national defense activities” Russia would or would not agree to in negotiations.
Yes, parties make maximalist demands when going into negotiations. And real negotiations aren’t possible until at least one side is willing to start backing off on its maximalist demands. So far, neither side has been.
I’ve posted video of Lavrov’s extended interview statement on Russia’s rejection of the Ukrainian draft proposal (the day before Johnson arrived) here before. You can easily find that video if you look for it (I found it on Chinese state media). In it, he explicitly states that one of the primary grounds for rejection was that Russia required unanimous consent of guarantor states to the ceasefire agreement (including Russia) for Ukraine to conduct military exercises, while Ukraine’s position was that consent should only be required from a majority of the guarantor states. And Russia wasn’t going to accept any draft that didn’t give it that veto power.
“So far, the Russian position for negotiation seems to be ‘give me everything I want, and I’ll go away, except for from the places I want … and for now.'”
What do you mean by “so far?” For years leading up to the 2022 invasion, Russia tried relentlessly to negotiate a mutually-acceptable security arrangement. The US-led West responded by relentlessly pushing hostile military forces ever closer to Russian borders, culminating with a brazen effort to turn Ukraine into a proxy threat on Russia’s most sensitive border.
Even after the invasion began, Russia offered a negotiated resolution that would have resulted in its withdrawal to pre-invasion borders. It seems that Ukraine was prepared to accept that deal, until the West killed it.
Now, after a year and a half of US-NATO’s relentless prolongation and escalation of the war, Russia is no longer willing to withdraw and has made that clear. No one should find that surprising or difficult to understand. No one should imagine that Ukraine is capable, or will be capable, of changing that reality. And no one should imagine that Ukraine’s sponsors and masters are capable of changing that reality by force of arms or economic warfare — at least not without triggering an even bigger disaster than we have now.
“For years leading up to the 2022 invasion, Russia tried relentlessly to negotiate a mutually-acceptable security arrangement.”
Yes, they did.
For meanings of “mutually acceptable” including “we demand it and you concede it.”
Thomas, why do you twist and spin the facts? No wonder your conclusions are illogical.
Who broke deals and treaties, the ABM agreement, who ended it Bush or Putin, Iran, Trump or Putin. All the nuclear agreements are gone because of American presidents breaking agreements.
We are back to square one ” MAD”
Name an agreement Putin broke, he reacts but he never broke a treaty, only Americans do that.
Did I ever claim he broke a treaty or agreement?
Since I’ve made no such claim, why would you ask me to prove what I’ve never said?
Thomas you are so right, in fact you never made any claim against Putin, you only call him a murderous thug because he is being demonized for decades for no good reason. He was made the enemy and has to be demonized without any questions asked, all for the same reason Russia and China are being declared our adversaries without any credible explanation. The manipulation of voters by professionals like Frank Luntz at work.
You don’t have the courage to take a clean stand, always adding the disclaimer immediately.
You make allegations without evidence so you can say you never said what you only implied.
Why did you have to add the last propaganda pure sentence?
A meaningless word salad.
Russia has tried for 30 years to be accepted. We (U.S.) turned down their request to be part of the Western Alliance, be an equal. President Clinton began the solicitation of nations to become a part of NATO. “Not one inch East” became, “I didn’t mean that”.
Senior US Officials Expect to sacrifice your money and children to Back Ukraine Against Russia Into Next Year and Beyond.
Not if Russia pulls the fuk out in the name of peace as the so called “adult in the room” you kremlin supporters lead us to believe.
Wretch………………arrrrgghhhh!
Of course! Unless the Ukrainians “win” in 2023 (and, don’t forget, “winning” is defined by them and the US/NATO as retaking all of the 2014 Ukraine, including Crimea, with other goals, like reparations, war crime trials, etc, also allegedly being non negotiable), then the war, for US political purposes, if no other reason, MUST continue into next year. Indeed, the Biden Admin. probably figures that it cannot sustain electorally any kind of “defeat” for the Ukraine before 11/24. So, the war MUST last not only into next year, but all through the year as well. Again, unless, somehow, the Ukraine achieves something that can be sold as a “win” before then.
Dont forget the one who threw his entire Army in Ukraine and has ruined millions of lives.
Dont be pretending your boy Putin is the victim.
Yawn……………………………………….ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Yawn away, loser.
You’d be all over it if i was criticizing West, US and Ukraine you fake antiwar douche.
You hate what i stand for and oh BTW, im not going anywhere. Im here to expose your BS. Mr.” I support the invasion and annexation of Ukraine.”
Don’t forget, the UKRAINIAN PEOPLE ARE THE
VICTIMS.
Ukraine will end up like all the other US/NATO abandoned nations, another failed state. It may well happen before the Nov. elections next year. The Russians will decide it, most likely not Biden/Nuland and company.
Do you have anything to say about the one who invaded and annexed?
Im sure you dont. Everything is going according to SMO plans.
The US is the invader, it started in 1992 when Clinton expanded NATO breaking the agreements made with Russia. Russia was no threat to the US. USA/NATO is using Ukraine to for cannon fodder to serve the interests of the US hegemon which is regime change and control of natural resources in Russia. USA is the aggressor not Russia. Ukraine lost its sovereignty when the neo-Nazis jumped in bed with the Obama/Biden regime change in 2014. Biden/Nuland are evil warmongers and the members of congress are corrupt Hippocrates, morally bankrupt people.
Zelenski had a visit from the CEO of Blackrock. There is an interesting article about what they want. From The American Conservative: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/blackrock-plots-to-buy-ukraine/
“The summer has been frustrating and, in some ways, disappointing for Ukraine and its Western backers.” I feel bad for the dead Ukrainian soldiers and their families. Reminds me of Greta and the children in Africa. (Sarcasm)
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1faac7d28089c4301ff24bf92f05a5e137318bdc6087cc0f68eb362f08738a88.jpg
Hope the creator of this expose of child labor used to create lithium batteries didn’t make or distribute it with a laptop using a lithium battery…
…cause that would make the creator corrupt, hypocritical and complicit in the evil they virtuously criticize…
…leading me – even further than the original pic – to the nihilistic view that every action is corrupted, and that there are no innocent.
Of course! This is just another life and money draining forever war for more power and money in Wash. and the war industry. Simple.
This suits Russia who understands that the West has declared war on them. The BRICS now control 40% of the world GDP and 50% of the world oil and gas production. Interest rates in the West will only increase as the US dollar gets downgraded further. Keep in mind that the BRICS+6 will not be purchasing US treasuries, so who will?
The big game for Russia is to continue the SMO and slowly but surely grind down the West. I repeat Ukraine was the biggest and most equipped NATO army in Europe and Russia just mauled them.
The stupidity of the West, the US/NATO establishment’s realpolitik is mind boggling. The US hegemon is cutting the throats of it’s allied NATO nations who are supposed to fund the costs and the killings to protect the hegemons interests. What does the hegemon expect to win? Rubble and destroyed societies and economies is all that will be left to win.
The Biden crew of IDIOTS blew up the NS pipelines, to destroy Germany economically and with it the EU. It is a declaration of war against the biggest European ally.
Most NATO members are also EU members. Washington must be a certified insane asylum, and the Europeans are crazy and corrupt cowards. The CIA must sit on the bench next to them giving idiotic orders to say the least.
The moral issues we don’t even touch.
“Senior US Officials Expect to Back Ukraine Against Russia Into Next Year and Beyond”
Moloch is hungry.
The idea of “severing the land bridge” is given up more easily because it never really made sense in the way it was used politically. It was a talisman, not a real “center of gravity” that could change the war.
What would Ukraine do after it inserted a dagger-like force separating the larger Russian forces? It was a self made trap.
It was like the Battle of the Bulge, a massive effort to drive toward something that would not make a real difference even if they got there, and likewise with little prospect of ever getting there anyway.
This was politics, spin, not real strategy. So if it fails, what we see is just more spin. That is all there was anyway.
Those who actually expected it to make a difference were self-deluded, that the Russians would simply collapse when pressed and run off. That was the fantasy that Hitler indulged for the Battle of the Bulge, expecting drive to somehow collapse the Western Allies politically.
The point of the Bulge offensive was to deny the Allies the port at Antwerp, making it harder to supply the allied offensive and allowing the Germans to defeat split foes in detail. It was never going to work — the Wehrmacht was just far gone at that point and the Russians were advancing from the east — but if you were Hitler, with perhaps a … skewed … idea of what forces you had left, it wasn’t completely illogical.
I suspect the idea of cutting the land corridor was to give the Russians a Hobson’s choice — they could pour everything into defending Crimea, while having to supply it via sea, air, and the single Kerch bridge, or they could pour everything into trying to hold the Donbas, but not both. And they’d likely have prioritized Crimea by far, giving the Ukrainians the opportunity to reclaim Luhansk and the parts of Donetsk currently held by Russia.
I don’t think THAT was ever going to work either, for the same reason — Zelenskyy and his commanders seem to have an unrealistic idea of what their forces can accomplish — but it also wasn’t completely illogical as such.
I expect the Russians to secure Donetsk, and to hold it, Luhansk, Crimea, and possibly the land corridor when the war returns to frozen conflict. “The Donbas” will become another 38th parallel or Nagorno-Karabakh or Kashmir sore spot for the foreseeable future.
Not to forget, Biden and his people too have unrealistic ideas.
Absolutely. The US foreign policy establishment is divided into two camps, both of them evil and stupid:
One camp thinks that the US should strive to be the world’s only superpower, an empire that encompasses the globe, whose every demand is law, etc.
The other camp believes that’s already true, and wants to keep it that way.
The second camp — Biden’s advisors all seem to be in it, and probably Biden himself if he has any brain function left at all 00 is probably more dangerous, because it believes it has more to lose than it actually does.
The US as a superpower/empire peaked at the end of World War 2. It’s been in military decline ever since, throwing good money after bad in misguided wars that always end up in, at best, stalemates (Korea) and at worst ruinous defeats (Vietnam). The “victories” are all either just little worthless showpieces (Grenada, Panama), or else turn into losses after long and expensive occupations.
And even if any of that had been “successful,” it still would have been a stupid and evil idea.
Hubris is the sledgehammer breaking the backs of empires. Sooner or later delusion of grandeur catches up with them.
“The United States, in their view, cannot be seen to abandon its ally.”
They blew up vital LG pipelines of their ally Germany, an act of war against an ALLY, all to destroy the German economy and the other EU member states.