A NATO official has suggested Ukraine could cede some territory to Russia in exchange for joining the Western military alliance.
The comments were made on Tuesday by Stian Jenssen, chief of staff for NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg, and reported by the Norwegian newspaper VG. “I think that a solution could be for Ukraine to give up territory, and get NATO membership in return,” he said, adding that it should be up to Ukraine when and on what terms to negotiate.
Jenssen said the issue of Ukraine’s status after the war is being discussed within the alliance and that some countries have raised the possibility of Kyiv ceding some territory. The comments come as the Ukrainian counteroffensive is stalling, and Western officials are admitting it’s very unlikely to succeed.
The comments mark the first time that a high-level NATO official suggested Ukraine might have to cede territory to Russia. The US and NATO have backed Ukraine’s demands for peace, which include Russia withdrawing from all the territory it has captured since invading, as well as giving up Crimea, which has been Russian-controlled since 2014.
Jenssen’s suggestion drew a sharp rebuke from Ukraine. “Trading territory for a NATO umbrella? It is ridiculous,” Mykhailo Podolyak, an aide to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, wrote on X. “That means deliberately choosing the defeat of democracy, encouraging a global criminal, preserving the Russian regime, destroying international law, and passing the war on to other generations.”
Podolyak said the war could only end if Russian President Vladimir Putin is defeated. “Obviously, if Putin does not suffer a crushing defeat, the political regime in Russia does not change, and war criminals are not punished, the war will definitely return with Russia’s appetite for more,” he said.
Russia would likely not go for any post-war settlement that involves Ukraine joining NATO as long as it can keep fueling the war since one of its main motives for invading was Kyiv’s alignment with NATO.
Russia will burn the Ukraine to the ground if they attempt to join NATO. It is the reason Russian troops are in Southern/Eastern Ukraine now; to bring the Ukraine to the negotiating table so they can declare their neutrality and Russia can claim ‘job done’ and withdraw. The Ukraine has much more to lose while Stian Jenssen has nothing to lose. The West is exploiting the Ukraine and could not care less about the Ukraine.
No, but Russia will burn England and US to the ground. Ukraine is part of Russia and Russia is part of Ukraine. Always been and always will be. Historically, all attempts to conquer Russian territory ended up tragically for the conquerors. It will not be any different for the Anglo-American empire. Invasion and occupation of Ukraine was the largest geopolitical failure for the empire.
No doubt what you say is true. Let us hope/pray it doesn’t ‘go nuclear’. The West is greedy and foolish and Putis is a serious man made deadly by the love of his country. The West underestimates his resources and will at their peril.
Putin will be deposed or eliminated. That is the likely outcome.
He is no doubt on the Biden-Haspel “kill list”. But they had better not leave any fingerprints.
If you can’t quit, please try to cut back on your drug use. You’re hallucinating.
Ukraine is manifestly not part of Russia … it was (forcibly) part of the SU and before part of the Russian Empire. But Ukraine now exists and will continue to, and I don’t think Russia is stupid enough to want to conquer her.
What needs to be determined are proper borders, that’s all, and that will be settled soon.
That’s ridiculous propaganda. Kiev used to be Russian capital. Ukraine is Russia
Ukraine, as a separate entity, was created by the Soviets.
Eastern Ukraine (Malorossiaya) was Russia proper before 1917.
Naturally, ukro-nazzis try to murder anybody who reminds them of the historical facts.
I do not think the Russian Federation wants Western Ukraine but they clearly will take Eastern Ukraine militarily.
“The” Ukraine identifies you as a Russian troll, D-bag. Ukraine WILL be in NATO when the war ends. (Most likely when Crimea is reunited with the rest of Ukraine and they give Russia the Donbas.) Live with it.
You must live somewhere where marijuana is legal.
I do. It make the Russian disintegration more enjoyable to watch.
What disintegration? Russia’s ecomomy just passed Germany’s to become the fifth largest ecomomy in the world. Too much drug use can blind you to reality and cloud your judgement.
You keep injecting that Copium, friend!
https://news.yahoo.com/collapse-ruble-could-impact-war-172737046.html?src=rss
Hahaha
And you must live somewhere where hating Ukraine is legal.
That would be described as a free country with ability to have free thoughts.
Do you know how stupid that sounds?
Almost comically stupid.
No is not, you can hate/discriminate Ukraine/Ukrainians verbally or physically all you want in Russia and nothing will happen to you. You say anything negative about the government and your ass is going to jail at the very least.
But yes, that’s stupid to you.
Now come back with a Tucker Carlson spin.
Why not put some of that in there so people know what the f*ck you’re talking about?
And I don’t know why you brought up Tucker Carlson. I don’t follow anyone who’s worried about woke M&M’s.
You are in favor of the concept of thought crime. Very Ukrainian. The Ukraine made it illegal, years before this war, to discuss the issue of “separatism”.
I do. Everywhere in the world it is legal to hate the Ukraine, except Ukraine. You must live in the Ukraine if you thing that should be illegal.
Please. Don’t give us that enjoy the good herb a bad name.
Yea, my state of Maryland just legalized it recreationally, edibles work for me. Julio should try a big joint might bring him a moment of clarity on this war and get a grip on reality.
Sorry, I did not mean to infer that everyone who indulges makes crazy statement but people who smoke too much do say goofy things. I had friends growing up who just couldn’t ‘handle’ it and got really goofy.
No doubt. Goofy people do goofy shit. As an advocate, I just have a problem with the stereotyping.
Even Blinken says Crimea is a red line. WW3 before Crimea goes back to Ukraine.
Crimea = Ukraine. (Live with it.)
I see you do read certain Blinken quotes. But sure, it’s just that simple.
I honestly don’t care if Crimea is part of RF or Ukraine as long as people are happy.
I don’t either. Russia does.
Not that much from my perspective. They just don’t want Anglo-American occupation of Crimea. They were perfectly happy to lease the Sevastopol base from Ukraine before the coup.
And I said “Russia does, based on exactly that. So, I’ll stick to Russia does because they have no choice.
Got it but Kremlin isn’t Russia.
And you forgot to close your quote. That bugs me immensely. Probably even more than single (or multiple) open or closed parenthesis.
The USA, the Ukraine, what’s the difference. Why are you so ‘triggered’ you name call?
The Russia is in Southern/Eastern Ukraine to keep Ukraine from joining NATO? I thought it was to de-militarize and de-nazify Ukraine.
The Russia idea of bringing Ukraine to the negotiating table has failed.
Do try to keep up.
In March 2022 Putin hoped to bring Ukraine to the negotiating table but it is not his intention any more.
This SMO is very expensive and, since Putin is not interested in taking over the Ukraine, he would be happy to negotiate Ukraine becoming neutral like Austria. If they attempt to join NATO, which is an existential threat to Russia, the fighting will continue. If the deal is right, he will negotiate.
Putin is a lawyer and an economist who speaks with remarkable precision about his intentions. So, I believe he will do everything in his power to prevent the Kyev regime from continuing its efforts to erase the culture of ethnic Russians, particularly in the Donbass. He understood, from the very beginning, that this would require the demilitarization (including NATO) of the current regime in Kyev.
A lot of things have happened since he laid out his goals for the Special Military Operation. But I do not believe the goals themselves have changed. Ukraine will, in my opinion, continue to exist in some form. But its military will be defanged; the thugs who overthrew the government of Ukraine will be prosecuted where possible; and the foreign entities of the West, who sponsored regime change in Ukraine, will never be given the chance to do it again.
All four occupied regions of Ukraine voted to join Russia. According to election officials, 93% of the ballots cast in the Zaporizhzhia region supported annexation, as did 87% in the Kherson region, 98% in the Luhansk region and 99% in Donetsk. If the Ukraine persists, there may be more of southern and eastern Ukraine that gets incorporated into Russia. It’s up to the Ukraine at present.
Yes. I think the 2012 Parliamentary Election Map illustrates what the people of Ukraine sought before the ultra-nationalists overthrew the government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Ukrainian_parliamentary_election
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/2012_Ukrainian_parliamentary_election_-_List_results.svg
Yes. I think the 2012 Parliamentary Election Map illustrates what the people of Ukraine sought before the ultra-nationalists overthrew the government in 2014
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Ukrainian_parliamentary_election
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/2012_Ukrainian_parliamentary_election_-_List_results.svg
NATO officials either don’t understand or pretend they don’t understand what this conflict is about. Europe needs a new security agreement which could guarantee the security for every European country, including, of course, Russia. That is what Putin was talking about in December 2021. American military infrastructure should be removed from East Europe, not only from Ukraine but also from Poland, Rumania and other NATO countries which joined the alliance after the collapse of USSR. As long as NATO leadership is ignoring the legitimate security concerns of Russia, no one in Europe can be safe. And not only in Europe. A big nuclear war is quite possible.
The only reasonable way to solve the territorial quarrels in Ukraine, is the referendum in each oblast where such problem exists.
The USSR and Russia have always wanted a demilitarized, neutrlized, buffer zone between it (and its allies) and US-led NATO military allies. A great zone of neutrality, from Scandanavia, through Germany and Austria, and into the Balkans, is what Stalin wanted after WWII and what Putin wants now (except that Putin is even more reasonable, and will settle for less). That state of affairs would have led to a much less volatile Cold War and would lead to peace in Europe today. It has always been “the West” (from the founding of the USSR, through the Cold War, and until today) that has refused to go along with it.
The attempt to expand NATO into a neo Cordon Sanitaire right up to Russia’s most intimate borders a la the 1920s is obviously the first cause of the war in the Ukraine. This gross, provocative expansionism is completely obvious to most neutral observers, and only eludes the most deluded consumers of Western propaganda.
If only they had kept to the Minsk Agreements.
Seems like NATO led the Ukrainians down the garden path. But what will the Ukrainians think of this in the future?
Exactly! Given the absurd destruction as a result of not implementing the Minsk Accords, we can only ask Why ?
Because war/separation/chaos were always the plan?
What other plans would you expect from the World’s only https://williamblum.org/books/rogue-state/ ?
By sabotaging Minsk Agreements, French and German leaders betrayed not only Russian and Ukrainian people but also their own people. France, Germany and the rest of EU are paying very high price for it.
I think the important point here is that NATO is openly floating the idea of a reduced Ukraine as an endpoint to the war. That is a big change from the original idea of driving Russia back to the pre-2014 borders. It is further evidence to me that the US and NATO are experiencing Ukraine fatigue and just want it to be over.
The Pentagon knows the Russian Federation will eventually crush Ukraine. They’ve known it from the start.
Yes, the geopolitical goal is to prevent or at least slow down emergence of a new USSR.
The Pentagon knows now but they did not know it from the start.
I doubt that the Biden administration just wants it to be over. It appears fully committed to sacrificing Ukraine and Ukrainians to the cause of weakening Russia. Also, of course, if the Republicans can credibly accuse Biden of “cutting and running” in the face of “Russian aggression,” it would likely be a serious problem in next year’s election.
I don’t think anyone in US is worrying about sacrificing too many Ukrainians. They are worrying only about sacrificing too much of their money. It is not so easy to convince American taxpayers that their money are well invested. On the other hand, as the democracy is failing, it is also not a big problem for US leadership what the taxpayers are worrying about.
The money is not all that significant. A couple of hundred billion dollars in a five trillion dollar budget, derived from a 25 trillion dollar economy, is not all that much, in the great scheme of things. Symbolic, mostly.
What the Admin. is afraid of running out of is political support. A losing or even stalemated war is not a selling point, come Biden re election time. But either “we won” or “we got the best deal possible” might well be enough to neutralize any attacks re Ukrainian policy (hawkish, dovish, or otherwise) from Trump, Desantis, or whomever.
I’d agree but we got that whole China thing going.
Yeah, but one of the major goals of provoking the disaster in Ukraine was to get Russia out of the way in preparation fighting China. Leaving a strong, perhaps stronger, Russia as a strong ally of China was not part of the plan.
I think the Biden Administration does want it over with before next year’s general election season starts, say, by Labor Day, 2024. A stalled, endless war is always a hard sell, even if no “American boys” are dying. And, to forestall an opportunistic attack from the Republicans re “cutting and running” from “Russian aggression,” the Admin might seek a negoitated settlement, and tell the Ukraine they can sign it or go it alone. Maybe the Baltic states will pick up the slack!
With a “peace with honor” agreement signed, Biden can draw a line under the whole sordid affair. A war that’s over is not much of an issue. And “Who lost the Ukraine?” is going to sound pretty hollow coming from the Republicans, as their party has provided the only opposition to the war.
Plucky Lithuania to the rescue!
You could be right about electoral politics. However, failing to “weaken Russia” sufficiently would leave it as a strong ally for China in the coming fight against the evil commie behemoth. And whatever story is sold to the credulous American electorate, a negotiated settlement that has Ukraine ceding territory to Russia would seriously damage the image and credibility of the fading hegemon. The neocons would be horrified.
Obama reportedly told a fellow Democrat, “Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to fuck things up.” Even Obama may be surprised at how thoroughly he’s done that now.
“US and NATO are experiencing Ukraine fatigue” – sure, some people do but the leadership of US looking only for a possibility to have a break for rearming Ukrainian army and start a new offensive against Russia. They hope this conflict will last many years.
They have themselves in a bind: if Ukraine is unable/unwilling to give territory for NATO membership and Russia cannot accept any Western expansion, the consequence will be escalation – the limit of that is world war. Everybody needs to reflect on this.
https://patternofhistory.wordpress.com/
The cowardly Neocons have no desire to provoke WWIII, no, what they want is perpetual (conventional) war so they can keep selling their killing machines. When it’s clear Ukraine is defeated, the US / NATO will simply abandon Ukraine just like South Vietnam and Afghanistan.
The cowardly Neocons have no desire to provoke WWIII, no, what they want is perpetual (conventional) war so they can keep selling their killing machines. When it’s clear Ukraine is defeated, the US / NATO will simply abandon Ukraine just like South Vietnam and Afghanistan.
Comment from Medvedev was amusing. What kind of “Ukraine” are they willing to occupy? It certainly wouldn’t be a Ukraine with Kiev, Kharkov and Odessa. I doubt even detached parts of west Ukraine will be allowed to be occupied by the Anglo-American empire. This is really pathetic attempt to steal just a little bit territory after a complete failure to conquer it.
Ceding territory to Russia is not the same as allowing the US to occupy parts of fascist western Ukraine, although who knows what the Galician nazis might agree to?
I doubt western nazies want to continue to the war on their territory so neutrality is the best solution. Anglo-American occupation would simply mean they will become targets for Russia.
In any case, imperial occupation of Ukraine is simply isn’t realistic.
Let’s not get all “worried” that the NATO membership is a real offer.
They have to make the concession about territory loss to be less jarring with a want but that want won’t happen.
It, however will bring everyone along to agree to the loss of territory and at the end NATO membership will be put off with a “very firm promise” or a “assurance” it will happen in the future which won’t be exactly true but good enough to get everyone to sign.
That’s the dumbest idea so far. And Russia won’t accept it.
tour de force of projection.
Podolyak’s mouth is writing check his country can’t cash. When US/NATO leaders realize the Ukraine has outlived its usefulness, they will stop arms and aid shipments and cut Kiev loose. Zelensky himself will be lucky if he doesn’t have a fatal ‘accident’ to keep him from talking and naming names (ironically, the safest place Z could probably run to would be Russia).
Yes, your prediction is highly likely.
He committed too many crimes against Russians, particular against the people of Donbass.
He better pray that Russians will get to him before Cossacks do
Yep. In Russia Volodimor have a much better chance to remain alive.
Russia will take Odessa and all of Novorossiya or New Russia Eastern Ukraine plus Karkiev.
“I would like to remind you that what was called Novorossiya back in the tsarist days – Kharkov, Lugansk, Donetsk, Kherson, Nikolayev and Odessa – were not part of Ukraine back then,” Putin said. “The center of that territory was Novorossiysk, so the region is called Novorossiya. Russia lost these territories for various reasons, but the people remained.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/04/18/understanding-novorossiya-the-latest-historical-concept-to-get-worried-about-in-ukraine/
I thought so too, but now it seems unlikely. The lines appear to be stabilizing in a WW1 manner.
At this point in the war, the Russian Federation does not care what the collective West thinks, says or does. Ukraine will be pacified militarily. Thanks to the insane Neocons, many more Ukrainians (and Russian soldiers) are going to die. Most likely, in due course, Russia will sever what’s left of Ukraine from the Black Sea creating a land-locked, failed “Rump State” totally dependent on those who drove it to madness.
Once more showing NATO expansion is the root driver and foreign policy goal for the US in this war: that…
…for all the US’s denials of ‘NATO’ as a major factor of Russia’s invasion…
…and for all the US’s sanctimony about Ukraine’s ‘right to determine its peace’…
…and for all the US’s Russia-baiting outrage at any citizen call for supporting peace negotiations vs. prolonging a bloody frozen conflict…
…that expanding NATO is the fundamental US stake in this war – just as it was in the months leading up to Russia’s invasion, when Russia’s written demand for Ukrainian neutrality was summarily rejected by the US as a ‘non-negotiable’ it refused to discuss.
So half of Ukraine is gone? So half its young men have been slaughtered, or come back missing arms or legs? That is ok with the US. Just as it is ok with the US if the death and dismemberment continues for “as long as it takes”…as long as it takes to get whatever remains of Ukraine into NATO – the US root foreign policy stake and goal.
Right. Half of Ukraine in NATO is half more than was in NATO before the SMO started. Such an outcome would be a success, as imperialists reckon. Think of the big, global, imperial map, such as used to be produced when the sun never set on the British Empire. Well, under Emperor Biden’s watch, half of the Ukraine, which was in Russia’s orbit for centuries, is our newest province. Paint it red, or blue, or whatever you like. But in the history books, that chunk of ground will have a year in Biden’s Admin. next to it. Just like Clinton has his next to Poland. And Jimmy Carter has the Persian Gulf, and so on and so forth.
Ukrainian lives? Why would they matter? Did the lives of any of Britain’s “native” allies matter all that much to them, as they expanded around the world, setting brother against brother, and both against their European competitors? “Allied,” really, client, troops have always been expendable, from the days of Alexander, Hannibal, Ceaser, Edward I, until today. Ukrainians teenagers and grandpas dying for that little bit of glory for Biden et al is par for the course.
At this point Russia will demand a lot more than acknowledgment of it’s territorial possessions. It will demand the extradition of the leadership in Kiev to face prosecution for war crimes. This is why Kiev can’t and won’t be a negotiation partner with Russia.
If there is to be a peace, an overthrow of the regime in Kiev is the precursor. Either the Ukrainians revolt or the US throws Zelensky under the bus – maybe a combo of the two.
Removing Volodimor will not change anything in occupational regime of Ukraine. He is less than a puppet. He is a cardboard cutout for the cameras. They may kill him just to blame Russia and make him into a martyr but this will not end the occupation of Ukraine. In fact, it is more likely that imperial parasites will use WMDs in Ukraine when their occupation is threatened and when they are removed, they will implement scorched earth policy. In any case it isn’t looking good for Kremlin because they are still playing games with Anglo-American imperial filth.
In fact, it is more likely that imperial parasites will use WMDs in Ukraine
Then perhaps the precursor to peace is a revolt right here in the good ol’ USA!
Ukraine will be begging for what was offered way back in March of 2022.
March 16, 2022. Russia and Ukraine announce significant progress towards a peace agreement mediated by Turkey and Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett. As reported in the press, the basis of the agreement includes: “a ceasefire and Russian withdrawal if Kyiv declares neutrality and accepts limits on its armed forces.”
Yes, that was a good offer, but Z obviously had other instructions.
‘Ukraine will be begging for what was offered way back in March of 2022.’
Dude, drop that line. It’s false and you know it. That negotiation was for Putin the cheater to take it all and render Ukraine as another Belarus. That’s not negotiations.
That’s what you’d wish to see but no, Ukraine will beg with their guns.
I don’t ignore history. That’s your game. But here’s more history. Again.
March 28, 2022. President Zelensky publicly declares that Ukraine is ready for neutrality combined with security guarantees as part of a peace agreement with Russia. “Security guarantees and neutrality, the non-nuclear status of our state — we’re ready to do that. That’s the most important point … they started the war because of it.”
“That’s what you’d wish to see but no, Ukraine will beg with their guns.”
And why would I wish to see that? I don’t live in Russia or Ukraine, and I have no ties to either place. I don’t like one country more than the other country, or one leader more than the other. You use the same tired bullshit excuse that somehow equates this disaster to a sporting event that requires loyalty to the home team regardless of the circumstances. What I do want is to see is that people stop dying for some noble cause that isn’t based on reality. Their very own supporters have made that abundantly clear with their acknowledgement that they were basing the success of Ukraine’s counteroffensive on HOPE and COURAGE and not the actual weaponry that would be needed to make that counteroffensive a success. But you choose to ignore that too.
No comment from Washington yet!
My first thought; This sounds like someone who is more concerned with NATO influence than he does the lives of Ukrainians. He’s saying “Peace is only possible if NATO grows”.(Isn’t he special..)
I will say this, Russia might very well go for it. Why? Because Ukraine is no great prize for NATO, they would be buying a Pig in a Poke. This would, in the long run, weaken NATO. It comes with the danger of weapons closer to Moscow, but lets be honest, our weapons can reach Moscow from Poland and if NATO launches from anywhere, it’s WWIII.
I wouldn’t be so sure that Putin wouldn’t agree for a number of other reasons as well. This war is costly, Ukraine could become a NATO member but with stipulations on what weapons systems can be deployed there or in Poland other arms control agreements could come with it. Furthermore, 20% of Ukraine could easily be called a Win by Putin and welcomed by a war weary public.
But, isn’t his main goal not to have NATO on his border? Well maybe, but that ship has kind of sailed anyway hasn’t it? And do we know if that was really ever a big concern, it might not have been you know? That might always have been open to negotiation, provided it comes with certain agreements on weapons deployments.
How about his demand to De-Nazify the county? He can claim he’s done just that, just tell the public the estimates of how many of them were killed in the fighting, his people wanted revenge for the Odessa fire and other crimes, they got it and then some. He’s certainly killed a ton of them and it’s doubtful the right wing will continue to have as strong a grip on the country after the war, especially not as it’s going to be a grifter state dependent on Western money which will likely want their distance from that type of optics.
These Nazi’s were our pawns, easily discarded, most of them are dead and their ideology wasn’t organic, it was pushed on them from our side, making it just as easily shifted away from, if not turned into a scapegoat and blamed for the war.
I suspect that once what is left of Ukraine is fully owned by the West that the Bandera statues will come down one way or another, it won’t happen overnight but sooner or later it will. They need to do business with the West, who is now fully educated on who he was and what his followers have done. And Like I said, the right wing militias will make good scapegoats, because it’s in large part true that they helped bring about the war, useful pawns or not. These militias thought it was fun to go hunting in the Donbass for Russians for years after the 2014 coup, they have now paid a high price and so did their country. I also think the whole Nazi claim was at least somewhat propaganda, in that it was included in Putin’s demands as a way to rally his people and to let the world know that Ukraine wasn’t all sugar and spice and everything nice. (not to mention that wars against ideologies rarely ever succeed so why bother trying, when it’s education not bombs that help?)
This is just NATO finally realizing that the defeat of ‘Ukraine’ (NATO) is inevitable. Ukrainians, who have been counting on NATO, are outraged about having fought to the last 20k soldiers to stop the eastern (and probably southern) part of their ‘country’ from divorcing them.
And Russia will not accept NATO in any part of Ukraine. That is a red line for them as CIA director, William Burns, told the Bush administration back in 2008, when Burns was Ambassador to Russia.