British Defense Secretary Ben Wallace confirmed on Thursday that London is providing Ukraine with longer-range missiles, marking another escalation of NATO support for Kyiv.
The UK is sending Storm Shadow missiles, which are air-launched and can be fired by Ukraine’s Soviet fighter jets. According to CNN, the Storm Shadows London is sending Kyiv have a range of 250km (155 miles).
Wallace said the Storm Shadows are “now going in, or are in the country itself,” signaling some have been delivered. He didn’t specify how many London is sending. “The use of Storm Shadow will allow Ukraine to push back Russian forces based within Ukrainian sovereign territory,” he said.
The Kremlin called the news “extremely negative” and vowed to respond. “This will demand an adequate response from our military, which will, naturally, from a military point of view, find corresponding solutions,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said.
US officials have welcomed the British move but have said it won’t mean the US will be providing Kyiv with the Army Tactical Missile Systems (ATACMS) it has been requesting. ATACMS have a range of up to 190 miles and can be fired by the HIMARS rocket systems.
The current munitions Ukraine has been using with the HIMARS have a range of up to 50 miles, although there have been reports of Kyiv using Ground Launched Small Diameter Bombs (GLSDB), which can hit targets up to 94 miles away. The US first pledged the GLSDBs for Ukraine in February.
The provision of longer-range weapons to Ukraine risks a major escalation as they can be used to target Russian territory. Ukrainian officials have insisted they wouldn’t use them for attacks inside Russia, but leaked Pentagon documents have indicated President Volodymyr Zelensky would want to.
Ukraine and its Western backers also don’t recognize Crimea as Russian territory, meaning targeting the peninsula is not off-limits. Attacks on Crimea can be just as escalatory, as even Secretary of State Antony Blinken has acknowledged the peninsula is a “red line” for President Vladimir Putin.
The longer the range the smaller the Ukraine.
That’s not how warfare works but you can go ahead and Tell yourself that.
That’s how Russia works and that’s all you need know.
And that’s why they getting a new asshole now.
Oh, you emigrating?..
You must be that guy who takes those tight angle shots in porn movies. Because your insight on new asshole is remarkable.
LOL. I see your POV. LOL. Dude, I can’t stop giggling.
Who cares what anyone of them has to say, they are thugs, Biden is demented, Zelensky needs cocaine to help him think, neither Biden nor Trump are fit to be president.
Good old Victoria Nuland appears to be in charge, and maybe the establishment should consider Nuland for presidential candidate, she is a perfect Russophobe and never doubts her convictions, no matter how often she fails. She would be a super candidate for the nations establishment. They could always count on her. There is no one better qualified than she, and she wears both party hats and has decades of experience, she knows how to do regime changes too and blow up pipelines.
Can there be anyone more qualified than she is, PNAC is tailored for her. Only she knows how to win a war in Ukraine, they should turn it over to her.
No one could work better with Zelensky than she could. They even see eye to eye regarding Crimea.
I think the Eurpeans might remember when she said F the EU when they objected to her starting WWIII by helping protestors over throw and elected government in Ukraine?
The campaigns have outstanding sales departments, they know how to sell anything, even a Nuland for president.
The administrative buildings in Kiev were captured by far-right militants immediately after Yanukovich removed the riot police from Kiev. He did it because three foreign ministers of NATO (none of them was from America) signed with him an agreement to do so in order to avoid a bloodshed. According to that agreement, the foreign ministers of NATO guaranteed the removal of the far-right militants from Kiev as well. The European representatives of NATO cheated Yanukovich. The “F… EU” was about the appointment of pro-American prime minister in Kiev, not about anything else.
Ok you are clearly more knowledgeable than I am. I know enough to know there is truth to your statement.
It all was coordinated with the Obama /Biden people too. Yanukovich had agreed to new elections also, instead he had to run for his life, another broken agreement. Democratic politicians have no honor, they can’t be trusted. Elections mean nothing.
I don’t think this is a partisan issue, it’s an elite corruption and drunk on power issue. We have technology now that enables them to spread misinformation, disinformation and propaganda to the entire world as they are tethered to their “smart” phone and are bombarded with so much information the average attention span is down to 8 seconds. Every part of the world, it seems there is a power grab and concentration of wealth and power unseen in human history. I’m not sure how we see our way out of this, but we need to before were all drinking radioactive water and can’t leave our homes.
I totally agree with you, the elites make the wars, it is the most profitable business, that is what wars are all about, and it is why Biden and the neocons want to continue as long as others get killed.
The problem is not the technology. The problem is that Western media has become Nato’s propaganda agency. Instead of coitizing the government, the media has become a major driver for the war propaganda.
The media is owned by like 5 rich families, and it has everything to do with technology. Smart phones, it’s like having a brain washing device attached to you. Look around, the train, the streets, the crowds, the restaurants. People aren’t even really there, they are looking at their smart phones.
True! The Americans wanted Yatsenyuk to head the transition government while the Germans wanted Klitschko. The Europeans played the role of junior partner in the 2014 regime change. In the end, the Americans always get their way and the Europeans have to pay for the mess created by the US.
By the way, after the appointment of Yatsenyuk as prime minister, few billions $ Ukrainian budget money disappeared. Yatsenyuk, as we learned later, became $ billionaire but most of stolen money went to other people. Not difficult to guess that those people were Americans. Also they made a temporary head of state Turchynov who ordered the use of the army, including Ukrainian air forces, against civilians in Donbass. Actually it was Turchynov who started the war between Kiev regime and Donbass people.
That’s interesting. I always suspected that the security forces must have had a role on the coup, but never found material evidence. Most of the security forces, including police, SBU, general staff, etc., seem to have tolerated the Maidan violence, but cracked down hard on peaceful anti-Maidan protests.
Do you have any good links to proof for Turchynov’s role in the coup?
Turchynov was acting president of Kiev regime from the first days of the coup until June 7 2014 when they made Poroshenko the new president of Ukraine.
On April 13 2014 Kiev regime announced “anti-terrorist operation”. Actually it was a military operation against Donbass people who never recognized the legitimacy of the coup. The air forces first were used by Kiev regime on May 2 2014 when Ukrainian army begun offensive against town Slavyansk in Donetsk oblast. Some Ukrainian helicopters were shot down and the offensive failed. So, May 2 2014 is the beginning of the full scale war between Ukrainian army and the armed Donbass resistance. On May 26 began the battle for Donetsk airport. So, by the time when Poroshenko was elected, there was already a full scale war in Donbass. Before the election Poroshenko promised to terminate the military activities and start the process of reconciliation between Donbass and Kiev. He lied of course. Zelensky used the same trick before the election 2019. Once got elected, both Poroshenko and Zelensky were taking orders from Washington.
Not to forget, the USA controls the EU and NATO and really all international institutions, even the ICC and they are not even members, how else would they declare Putin a war criminal and not Biden and his neocon cabal?
Umm..he doesn’t send cruise missiles at residential area’s like that POS Putin, maybe?
That is what the neo-Nazis, the Asov thugs do. There is plenty of evidence of war crimes they committed. But you can’t know that, MSM does not report it.
I don’t think saying Nazi Asov thugs do it is the same as saying Joe Biden is doing it. In politics and war, enemies make strange bed fellow.
True, the Obama/Biden people knew Asov people are neo-Nazis, and Joe Biden and his neocons know of the war crimes the Azov battalions are committing and make no effort to stop it, that makes them accomplices to war crimes. The Nuernberg tribunals set the standards , that goes for Americans too.
I’ve never once on here, defended Joe Biden’s war in Ukraine, I’ve stated he was part of the administration that set the framework for it, and he’s the guy that didn’t have any interest in talking to Putin before he invaded to make a deal. I think he wanted this war, and him and his son have been setting themselves up to profit it from it for over a decade. I think the Bidens and Zelinski’s are like pigs in the trough, getting rich rich rich. On the other hand, the same can be said of Putin and his reaction and subsequent attacks on civilians. Two wrongs equal a larger wrong.
What you know about Putin is the result of years of demonizing Putin, the Russian people and Russia on the whole. Credible sources know of Putin’s accomplishments and his honesty. Read his speeches and listen to other sources and then judge for yourself. Putin has no yacht, there is no evidence only allegations, he is entitled to live in beautiful historic buildings, just like Biden lives in the WH. The truth is that our government can’t be trusted, they told us deliberate lies of WMDs in Iraq, and the incubator babies, and the Gulf of Tonkin and much more. Research your sources, our government plants stories in the NYT and WP and others.
Civilian casualties are relatively low in Ukraine, compared with Iraq. Follow the money, who profits? Zelensky is a traitor, he is committing treason , he is selling the country , BlackRock J. C. Morgan and Goldman Sachs and other banks too big to fail. They are making a killing, the war profiteers, buying the Ukraine from Zelensky, Biden and his cabal know how corrupt Zelensky is. Same song as in Afghanistan when the president needed a truck to transport all the $$$$ bills he took with him. USA/NATO officials are a very rich bunch of criminal people.
Forget about Trump, he is a small fish compared to them.
Come on let’s be real here. He’s brutal and assassinates his own competition for power, marginalizing anyone or group that stands against him or in his way. He’s an ideologue that suppresses minority religious groups, ethnic groups and gays. Putin, in my opinion is greedy, corrupt and drunk on power. He was and operated very rationally for many years, offering hope that we could normalize relations. Then the Balkins War came with the Clintons, and it became a witch hunt by they Clintons and whatever power in our government they could muster against him. Some of that was deserving frankly, but the Clintons are also corrupt and self serving. Absolute Power corrupts all. That’s something I truly believe. And in Russia, Mr. Putin has a vice grip on it.
Oh dear, who killed JFK and his brother and why? How do you know Putin is brutal, who told you that? Biden in my opinion is a deranged war mongering old man. Not fit to be president. A man obsessed with delusions of grandeur, why else does he think he can take the nation to war against China? His dementia is the real danger and the fact that the neocons all are really nuts.
Putin is a statesman, Biden is not. Biden calls other heads of state names, mature people don’t do that. He is a liar and lacks diplomatic manners. He is unable to have a press conference and cant give coherent answers. He must go, the sooner the better. But where is a real man/woman to replace him. RFK Jr would be able, but our Russophobic establishment elite will not allow it.
BTW we know nothing about religion in Russia and their culture, it is none of our business, they don’t tell us what we have to believe, they too are a sovereign nation, very well educated people and they owe us no explanation why they believe what they believe. Take your nose out of other people’s home, hostile strangers are not welcome.
Your conclusion is really strange, on one hand you try to be objective but then you don’t have the courage to stand up for the conclusion you would have to come to, you repeat the demonizing without evidence of Putin. You can’t explain your bias, it is in conflict with some of your objectivity.
It is like being a little pregnant.
I have no problems understanding that Putin is a brutal ex KGB with little regard for human life based on his actions. It’s not my job to research those items for you and list them here, it’s your cross to bear with your own self conscience. My conscience is clear.
You do not need to do research for me. You do know the evidence on which you based your judgement and I do know mine. The KGB and CIA are much the same, or not? I understand that President Biden has little regards for human life, based on his actions.
Yes, our own CIA and government absolutely have it’s own corrupt lawless elements, I’m not denying that. It’s why I’m here, to stand against their forever wars and for peace. For finding common ground with Putin, which they claim to be impossible. I will say, it is impossible if you never try.
It is why I speak up. It is all I can do. We, the people, must demand to see some good will on our side, I can’t see any.
You see, in a game of chicken with nuclear holocaust, even if you don’t trust your foe, you find a peaceful resolution because, you must. Sanity, must prevail, even if those men and woman creating this conflict are irrational or insane. I’m honestly afraid Biden has dementia and our military and intelligence are literally calling the shots. It’s a game of Russian Roulette but with an arsenal of tactical weapons that can destroy the planet 1000 times over.
That is my fear too and all of it could have been avoided. It is the Russophobes in the State Department, the PNAC leftovers who are the problem. They show no introspection at all. After all their failures they have learned nothing. What is left to destroy in Ukraine, what about all the young lives lost? Does it ever cross Biden’s mind?
Reading the posts here I was reminded of the monument for the victims of 9/11. The Russian people and Putin donated a beautiful, meaningful monument with Bush’s and Putin’s name, the locals removed Putin’s name in Mar. 2022, what a small mindedness.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_the_Struggle_Against_World_Terrorism
Putin is exactly what you’d expect to get when one set of corrupt oligarchs decides finally suppresses another set of corrupt oligarchs to take the whole ball of yarn at the end of a post-regime-collapse free-for-all:
A “former” member of the “state security” apparatus who’s good at re-creating himself in the country’s residual self-image (e.g. the magical retroactive “secret baptism”) while ruthlessly suppressing any and all opposition to his masters’ monopolization of the country’s resources.
The up side to that, internationally, was that he wasn’t especially interested in expansionism. He had to be pushed hard, both by external and internal forces, even to directly confront the slow disintegration of the Russian empire vis a vis Ukraine.
The down side is that he’s between a rock and a hard place. He got into a war against forces he can’t beat, but also can’t surrender to unless he wants involuntary retirement at best and more likely a dirt nap. That’s a bad place to put a guy in, especially if that guy owns a bunch of inherited nukes.
By your standards every CIA official is a criminal, former president Bush was director of the CIA, former Secretary of state Pompeo was CIA director, Panetta and many others, at the moment it is Mr. Burns, a former ambassador in Moscow. The CIA is a criminal outfit and high level politicians are directors of the syndicate, that makes them criminals in your judgement, right?
Level headed, objective and fair minded US officials understand that Russia has justifiable concerns about border security and any other head of state would have done what the Russians did. Putin has the full support of the Russian people, like it or not.
What I don’t understand is how one can hate people one does not even know, how can Americans hate people on the other side of the globe, people who did nothing to them? Russians are not at the door in Washington, Americans are at the door in Moscow. But of course that is just Russian propaganda.
“By your standards every CIA official is a criminal”
Absolutely.
I wasn’t pretending that Putin is any worse than e.g. Bush, Obama, Trump, or Biden.
They’re basically quintuplets, brothers from other mothers.
A lot of Americans drink the American regime’s Kool Aid.
You obviously swill the Russian regime’s Kool Aid by the gallon pitcher.
I don’t care much for Kool Aid. When I wake up every morning, I want the smell of coffee.
Please explain the Russian cool aid. Do the Minsk agreements exist or not? Did the Obama/Biden administration fund and organize the regime change 2014? Did NATO fund arm and train Ukrainian troops to NATO standards or not? Did Russia advocate a neutral Ukraine or not? Did the Biden people respond in proper diplomatic way or not? When Zelensky did negotiate in March 2022 with promising success, did Boris Johnson not tell him to stop it because they were not ready yet?
Besides all that, Putin reached out many times, he helped to destroy Syrian chemical weapons together with Obama, many times he reached out and the US kept slapping his outstretched hand. Russia presented a very beautiful memorial to this nation to Bush in the name of the Russian people, in memory of the 9/11 victims, a very thoughtful memorial. and artistically a great display. It was hardly reported in MSM.
Actually to me it is the most meaningful monument to 9/11.
/www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/putins-name-covered-up-on-9-11-memorial-in-new-jersey/3598954/
“Do the Minsk agreements exist or not?”
Yes, they “exist.” And they were basically just a holding action on the part of Ukraine and Russia for them to build up their forces instead of actually implementing them.
“Did the Obama/Biden administration fund and organize the regime change 2014?”
Yes.
“Did NATO fund arm and train Ukrainian troops to NATO standards or not?”
Yes.
“Did Russia advocate a neutral Ukraine or not?”
Russia advocated Ukraine as a Russian satrapy like it had been instead of a US satrapy like it became.
“Did the Biden people respond in proper diplomatic way or not?”
That’s a question without content. How one responds is a function of what one hopes to achieve. If you assume, as I do, that Biden was hoping to bait Putin into having a gigantic brain fart and doing something idiotic like invading Ukraine, the diplomacy did indeed achieve that goal, didn’t it?
“When Zelensky did negotiate in March 2022 with promising success, did Boris Johnson not tell him to stop it because they were not ready yet?”
So I’ve heard.
But how does any of that conflict with anything I’ve said?
Where is the Kool Aid you talk about?
“You obviously swill the Russian regime’s Kool Aid by the gallon pitcher.”
Putin does not compare to Bush, Obama, Trump or Biden. Putin is a real statesman, I don’t care what you want to think he is.
USA/NATO nations never before had such low class government as they have now and had for several decades going back to Clinton.
Putin is a chekist who lucked into the tsardom because he picked the winning gang of oligarchs instead of the losing gang of oligarchs to work for. And until taking the bait in Ukraine, he was generally fairly measured and competent in his foreign policy, which has always centered around slowing the terminal decline of the Russian empire. Russia could definitely have done worse.
You’re correct that he’s a “statesman.” Not sure why you consider that a compliment, though. States are overgrown street gangs with delusions of grandeur.
Good leaders pick good teams, compare to Biden. That is why I would never consider Biden a statesman. Putin is a man of integrity, prove me wrong.
https://original.antiwar.com/david_stockman/2023/05/14/why-rfks-candidacy-matters-to-the-conservative-cause/
Basically the diplomatic note to Biden at the end of December 2021 was a repeat of the already agreed and signed Minsk accords, which the arrogant Biden/Nuland/Sullivan, and Blinken team willfully ignored, they were not willing to respect the other side’s position. The ignorance and immorality of the Biden people is simply unbelievable.
Biden or Trump is exactly what one expects when corrupt plutocrats decide who the candidates will be from which the lemmings may pick their elected officials and president. In any honest election with well informed voters neither Trump nor Biden would have become president. The corrupt corporate elites and party establishments decide, not voters. The system is not made for fair elections. Election campaigns are all about public voter manipulation. The government is there to protect the privileges of the rich not the people. For example, Banks will be bailed out at the expense of home owners who could not afford their mortgage to start out with and were forced to pay for mortgage insurance to protect the mortgage companies, while they could always file for bankruptcy or foreclosure or something like that.
Maybe he could just drop bombs on people, war is war, ask the Americans. They bomb maybe that is less painful.
Biden uses drones and hellfire missiles that is fast and painless in seconds.
Russians have managed to keep civilian casualties relatively low, while the Ukrainians kill their own people.
The EU countries including the UK are nothing but US LACKEYS , they backed the coup in Ukraine altho they new it was a bad idea , then the yanks blew up NS2 again they went along with it , and the reason NATO solidarity , i have no doubt if actual evidence is produced to show it was the YANKS it would be the end of NATO .
End of NATO? Perhaps as an offensive aggressor, but certainly not as a united force against communism and authoritarian regimes. On the other hand they have become bullies, and nobody likes a bully. China, is also becoming a bully. So there’s going to be a fight, whether we like it or not. And the outcome of that fight, will likely determine whether NATO gets absolved or stronger.
Every regime change the US made was to remove elected left leaning governments to be replaced with fascist dictators. I know of no exceptions.
Biden is a bully, no diplomacy, he only knows extortions, and military threats and actions, and sanctions.
NATO has been nothing but an aggressor, it protects big private global corporate business and the right to exploit other nations resources. Any time a head of state wants to nationalize national natural resources they face regime change, see Iran, Venezuela, Libya, and many more, it is either MY WAY or the HIGHWAY. Now it is Russia on Biden’s plate and of course China and markets, and economic competition which is true in regards of Germany.
This is the third time the Anglo-Saxons attempt to destroy Germany. The pipeline sabotage is part of it. It hit the Germans and the Russians, two enemies of the US/UK.
It is a complex issue.
We can call her Queen Victoria Nuland. She is the US’s equivalent of King Charles III.
Is he as meanspirited and ruthless as she is? She is hard to beat in that game.
Russia:
Hot dog! New targets!
The Kerch bridge is about 300km from Ukrainian airspace. So they would have to fly 50km into occupied space in order to launch I don’t think they can get away with that.
Boy, when that island finally sinks, it won’t be pretty.
I was wondering why so many Ukrainian SU-25 jets have been shot down in the last couple of weeks. I’ve noticed at least 5, and that is substantial because they were rumored to have only 16 of them left.
Russia sold quite a lot of SU-25 to different countries. Now Americans collecting them and sending to Ukraine.
Ukraine and its Western backers also don’t recognize Crimea as Russian territory, meaning targeting the peninsula is not off-limits
Kiev would bomb Crimea simply because Crimeans have chosen not to be part of Ukraine. U.S. would bomb Crimea as a means to hurt Russia.
No, they cannot be easily mounted and fired by Ukraine Soviet era jets…! The Soviet jets need to be extremely modified which then creates other flying issues…! So I see these missiles start collecting dust…!
“I see these missiles start collecting dust…!”
And maybe they did. But according to the Russian Ministry of Defense, not for very long.
They must have used a European jet for that attack inside Russia…!
The UK is itching for a colossal beatdown. Russia should have a strategy in place to exert pain on these mendacious war mongers who “think” that repercussions do not exist…
“British Defense Secretary Ben Wallace – that London is providing Ukraine with longer-range missiles, marking another escalation of NATO support for Kyiv.”
Another retard from NATO and the UK!
The US and UK leadership really want Russia to launch their nukes. The American and British people need to ask them why they are doing that.
In what scenario does committing suicide answer the problem of facing set backs in an invasion of Ukraine – is it that our argument is that the Russians would rather die than risk losing the territories that they currently hold in Ukriane?
How many more dead Ukrainian soldiers do you think it will take to win back the territory Russia currently holds?
Constantly upgrading weapons for a proxy war will eventually lead to a response that will cause global suicide.
Ask yourself why any leadership would want that.
I cannot know, I trust the Ukrainians have some idea. I do not expect them to have to take it all, as I expect the Russians to fold when they realize their position and their future prosects.
So do you subscribe to the notion that the Russians would rather all die than having the situation of 2013 – it sounds rather unlikely to me.
The kind of leadership that knows that if you give in to bullying then you can expect only more of it and from more opponents – or to put in a different way, by standing up to Putin now we minimize the risk of what is actually, the way you put it, nuclear blackmail. Where you suddenly have changed the role of nukes from being primarily defensive to also being offensive – that will lead to more land grabs by nuclear powers and more nuclear proliferation – then more land grabs etc. etc.
In other words while the Russians might just be so suicidal that they would rather die than live like they did before they decided to annex parts of Ukraine, the likelihood that they would actually do so is smaller than the risk of future nuclear war if we allow nuclear weapons to be used to blackmail nations to territorial conquest.
The Russians didn’t use nuclear weapons to acquire any land in Ukraine. But they have made it abundantly clear that they aren’t off the table if the US / NATO continues upgrading the weapons the Ukrainians are using. Suicidal would mean continuing to upgrade those weapons for a lost cause
Not surprised you never mentioned the Minsk Agreements. But that is to be expected when all you do is repeat the MSM / Pentagon propaganda which completely ignores them. I also doubt you have much support in Ukraine for your program “to fight to the last Ukranian.”
Allowing the Russian nuclear blackmail would be allowing the Russians to take territory using the threat of nukes – so the fact that they have not used the, is irrelevant, if the threat of using them changes our choices. Therefore we will not allow such threats to end our support.
Why would I mention the Minsk agreement(s) I was making a point about nuclear threats – and for the record I’m not for forcing the Ukrainians to fight, I’m for supporting them as long as they want to continue to fight.
Again, the Russians didn’t use nuclear weapons to attain territory. But continuing to escalate a proxy war to the point where Russia would have to use nuclear weapons is an insane argument, especially when it isn’t in the interests of the west or the Ukrainian people to do so.
The failure of Ukraine to abide by the Minsk agreements is the reason for the current situation so your ignorance is duly noted. If you really want to support the Ukranians maybe you should demand Zelensky reinstate the elections he just cancelled, so the people of Ukraine can say for themselves if they want war or peace.
“But continuing to escalate a proxy war to the point where Russia would have to use nuclear weapons is an insane argument”
The insane argument is that it’s possible to escalate a proxy war to the point where any side “has to” use nuclear weapons.
It’s entirely possible to just lose a non-existential war of choice and fuck off, without resorting to nukes. The US did it in Vietnam and Afghanistan, to name two.
If the Russians use nukes over Ukraine, it will be because they CHOOSE to use nukes over Ukraine, not because they “have to.”
If they used the threat of nukes then they did use nukes – just not by firing them.
Russia does not have to use nukes if the Ukrainians do not invade Russia and does not prevent the Russians from command and control of their nukes.
I know that this is one of the excuses used by Russia, but there is absolutely no evidence that the failure of both parties to implement the Minsk agreements made an invasion necessary.
What elections? The ones in October? If so it is going to be a bit late for this issue.
If they used the threat of nukes then they did use nukes – just not by firing them.
The land Russia currently controls wasn’t taken by using the threat of using nukes.
Russia does not have to use nukes if the Ukrainians do not invade Russia and does not prevent the Russians from command and control of their nukes.
Trying to invade Russian controlled territory populated by a civilian population that is mostly Russian, and that didn’t want to be part of Ukraine after a US sponsored coup is tantamount to invading Russia.
I know that this is one excuse used by Russia, but there is absolutely no evidence that the failure of both parties to implement the Minsk agreements made an invasion necessary.
It is already fact that the west didn’t have any intention of allowing Ukraine to implement the agreements, which gives Russia even more justification to use nuclear weapons if the west continues its escalation.
What elections? The ones in October? If so it is going to be a bit late for this issue.
It’s never too late to seek peace. But apparently you have no problem with Zelensky impressing Ukrainians to serve as cannon fodder while denying them the right to vote for someone who might seek peace.
Quite right but now you are or were proposing that they could hold on to these newly annexed territories by using the threat of nukes – hence…
No it is not, taking back the territory that the Russians had recognized as Ukrainian for 23 years and have now occupied for 9 years is not comparable to attacking Russia – and the Russians know that they will not get international, not even Chinese, recognition of this.
If the Russians want to commit suicide then there is not much we can do about it – allowing them to get us to accept nuclear blackmail is not going to happen – so their choice.
I have no problem with the Ukrainians fighting an invasion – holding an election during an invasion with the number of displace people is a very big ask – and I cannot remember any democratic state which has managed to hold an election while very significant parts of the country were occupied and very significant parts of the electorates had fled to other regions or countries.
If the Ukrainians are very opposed to being in the army then they retain the Afghan option of fighting very poorly or surrendering in droves – nothing is indicating that the Ukrainians are minded to give up the fight.
Quite right but now you are or were proposing that they could hold on to these newly annexed territories by using the threat of nukes.
Ukraine won’t win back anything with conventional weapons because they don’t have the soldiers to do it. Sending more of them to their death won’t force Russia to give up the land they now control.
No it is not, taking back the territory that the Russians had recognized as Ukrainian for 23 years and have now occupied for 9 years is not comparable to attacking Russia – and the Russians know that they will not get international, not even Chinese, recognition of this.
The Pro-Russian separatist regions that are the subject of the Minsk Agreements have every right to secede from Ukraine, especially when the legally elected Ukraine President those regions supported was overthrown by a US led coup. International recognition is meaningless to the people of these regions who voted to be part of Russia.
If the Russians want to commit suicide then there is not much we can do about it – allowing them to get us to accept nuclear blackmail is not going to happen – so their choice.
The US / NATO will also be committing suicide if they escalate the situation to a point where Russia is justified in using nukes. Apparently you and our feckless leaders have no problem that millions of people in America and Europe will also needlessly die because of a dispute between Russia and Ukraine, which has zero to do with the security of America or Europe. But what’s really insane is using the fallacy of not yielding to nuclear blackmail as the reason for their deaths.
I have no problem with the Ukrainians fighting an invasion – holding an election during an invasion with the number of displace people is a very big ask – and I cannot remember any democratic state which has managed to hold an election while very significant parts of the country were occupied and very significant parts of the electorates had fled to other regions or countries.
So who is doing the fighting if significant parts of the electorate have left the country? lol I guess we should feel sorry for the people who couldn’t afford to leave and are now being impressed into the Army to serve as cannon fodder. Maybe they would like an election so they could vote for someone who isn’t obsessed with getting them killed because the US / NATO wants Ukraine to fight to the last man.
If the Ukrainians are very opposed to being in the army then they retain the Afghan option of fighting very poorly or surrendering in droves – nothing is indicating that the Ukrainians are minded to give up the fight.
See your statement about most of the electorate leaving the country. And if you need to use impressment to get recruits
then people are opposed to being in the Army. You also can’t surrender when you’re being blown up by bombs and artillery
Fine, so why did you mention it as a threat?
No they do not, not according to international law and that was not what happened anyway – this has been admitted by Igor Girkin and just recently by Putin when he decided to recognize the Russian soldiers who had been fighting in Ukraine since 2014 – there was in other words a Russian intervention in a part of Ukraine – that does not lead to the right of those oblasts to leave and they did not hold referenda to decide upon this by majority before the Russian intervention which displaced people – so no way to get this recognized not even by the Chinese.
You have just said that the Russians will not use nukes – seeing as the west will never send in forces nor supply the Ukrainians with ukes, and certainly not invade Russia are you now contradicting yourself?
It has everything to do with our safety – as I stated if we allow nuclear blackmail to be met with success then we are on a path to nuclear war! But not to worry you have just stated that the Russians will not use nukes even if they are losing in Ukraine (otherwise you are admitting to nuclear blackmail). I for my part and our leaders for theirs are fairly relaxed about the Russian nuclear threat – as using nukes solves no problems for them but only adds a lot more problems.
Are you really this challenged??? It is primarily the women who have left but also a large part of the men over 65 you know they have the right to vote?
There is no evidence that the Ukrainians are very unhappy with the war or desperate to end it on the terms they can get now.
See my explanation about who has left the country and notice that being blown up by the artillery is not a threat to most of the Ukrainians – they do not have the shells to do this – your Russian friends do however.
So no there is no evidence to support this absurd notion you have that the Ukrainians would rather not fight – if they were suffering that kind of bad morale the Russians surely could have achieved more – or what is your explanation for the Russians losing more territory than they take just about every month since August 2022?
Fine, so why did you mention it as a threat?
I didn’t say it was threat.
No they do not, not according to international law and that was not what happened anyway – this has been admitted by Igor Girkin and just recently by Putin when he decided to recognize the Russian soldiers who had been fighting in Ukraine since 2014 – there was in other words a Russian intervention in a part of Ukraine – that does not lead to the right of those oblasts to leave and they did not hold referenda to decide upon this by majority before the Russian intervention which displaced people – so no way to get this recognized not even by the Chinese.
You can keep ignoring the Minsk agreements but it isn’t going to work.
You have just said that the Russians will not use nukes – seeing as the west will never send in forces nor supply the Ukrainians with ukes, and certainly not invade Russia are you now contradicting yourself?
I didn’t say that, but you certainly implied it with by saying if they want to commit suicide.
Are you really this challenged??? It is primarily the women who have left but also a large part of the men over 65 you know they have the right to vote?
So they can’t vote because they left the country? Keep digging that hole your in. lol
There is no evidence that the Ukrainians are very unhappy with the war or desperate to end it on the terms they can get now
Does that include Ukrainians being impressed into the armed forces or those of fighting age who could get out of the country? lol
So no there is no evidence to support this absurd notion you have that the Ukrainians would rather not fight – if they were suffering that kind of bad morale the Russians surely could have achieved more – or what is your explanation for the Russians losing more territory than they take just about every month since August 2022?
Absurdity is ignoring the fact that Zelensky has silenced any opposition to continuing the war, and also ignoring the fact that Russia never had any intention of controlling the entire country, per the Minsk Agreements
Your very first comment in that thread was:
Your third:
If that is not mentioning nukes as a threat as a consequence of delivering weapons to Ukraine when is it? – Try sticking to what you have actually written and not deny facts that everyone can see.
Whether I ignore it or not matters not one bit, that everyone else ignores it tells you just how relevant they are – not even Putin have mentioned them as a viable way out.
I see now that you did not actually say that the Russians were not going to use nukes you only said that the Russians would not lose territory because of the Ukrainians getting conventional weapons – denying the reality that we have observed since August.
No funnily enough making it possible to check which of the refugees far from all have documents are entitled to vote is not an easy task – you appear quite oblivious to the task of organizing democratic elections – is it that you do not live in a democracy?
Yes it does – soldiers have been impressed into military service in many democracies and a fair few of them have been very reluctant to risk their lives, that does not mean that the attitude of those have meant that the whole nations have wanted to end the fighting on the terms available from the enemy – you do know that the Russians are not volunteers or don’t you?
This is not ignoring anything Zelenskyy has done, if what he had done had not motivated the soldiers to fight then they could like the Afghans before them fought a lot less hard, poorly motivated soldiers fight poorly – as can be seen on the Russian side – even enjoying a massive advantage in the air and in artillery they have failed to make progress since August, they have lost significant territory.
Your very first comment in that thread was:
The US and UK leadership really want Russia to launch their nukes. The American and British people need to ask them why they are doing that.
That’s not a threat. It’s a statement concerning the inanity of continuing an escalation of a lost cause that could result in the use of nuclear weapons.
If that is not mentioning nukes as a threat as a consequence of delivering weapons to Ukraine when is it? – Try sticking to what you have actually written and not deny facts that everyone can see.
See my first response
No funnily enough making it possible to check which of the refugees far from all have documents are entitled to vote is not an easy task – you appear quite oblivious to the task of organizing democratic elections – is it that you do not live in a democracy?
So because it’s not easy just forget it? lol Here in the USA we’ve never cancelled elections during wartime.
Yes it does – soldiers have been impressed into military service in many democracies and a fair few of them have been very reluctant to risk their lives, that does not mean that the attitude of those have meant that the whole nations have wanted to end the fighting on the terms available from the enemy – you do know that the Russians are not volunteers or don’t you?
No – people are not impressed into military service in most democracies. Forcing people into the armed forces when refusal to serve means death by execution isn’t what happens in a democracy.
This is not ignoring anything Zelensky has done, if what he had done had not motivated the soldiers to fight then they could like the Afghans before them fought a lot less hard, poorly motivated soldiers fight poorly – as can be seen on the Russian side – even enjoying a massive advantage in the air and in artillery they have failed to make progress since August, they have lost significant territory.
Cancelling elections and forbidding any discussion of seeking peace talks hardly qualifies as motivating soldiers to fight. Ukraine isn’t Afghanistan, where soldiers could come and go as they please. So any Ukrainian forced to fight has no other choice, but his motivation will only be self-interest and not in defeating any enemy, ala the soldiers on Snake Island.
Russia certainly has massive military advantages but aren’t they using them to their full extent, so why would Ukraine want them to? Any responsible leader would try to save his people from further harm, but Zelensky isn’t doing that when he allows the USA / NATO to keep escalating the situation with more weapons that are quickly destroyed. There are no winners in war, and many more countries and people are realizing it. It’s time for Ukraine to do the same.
‘You ere losing and if you are not then nuklear war will be the consequence’ – That is the definition of a threat!
But then the US has never been invaded during election times and has never had millions of refugees displaced internally as-well ans externally.
It is called conscription and it does happen in democracies it happened in the US during the Vietnam war so even when the nation was not at threat – your knowledge of history also seems deficient – and btw neither in Ukraine nor in Russia where they also have conscripted soldiers did refusal mean that the death by execution.
Quite – right – but then it has not led to the Ukrainians seeing a growth in desertions – there is an ever growing number of Russian desertions – do you think that Zelenskyy caused that?
That is not how things were in Afghanistan either – moreover it is not how things fell apart in Afghanistan – they did so because the units were not willing to fight hard risking their lives for something they did not believe in.
If this was the case they would surrender every time there was a chance to do so, and they would fight very poorly the rest of the time – neither is the case or the Russians have much less motivated soldiers.
According to your theory the Ukrainians do not, and they are not motivated to fight the Russians, so this is not a problem. According to mine they are motivated and not failing to resist even when doing so is not narrowly aligned with their self-interest. So which is it?
You ere losing and if you are not then nuklear war will be the consequence’ – That is the definition of a threat!
That’ your definition
But then the US has never been invaded during election times and has never had millions of refugees displaced internally as-well ans externally.
Elections were held during our Civil War
It is called conscription and it does happen in democracies it happened in the US during the Vietnam war so even when the nation was not at threat – your knowledge of history also seems deficient – and btw neither in Ukraine nor in Russia where they also have conscripted soldiers did refusal mean that the death by execution.
Impressment is not conscription, and there were many exceptions to who could be drafted during the Vietnam War. You obviously also have never heard the terms ” conscientious objector ” or “draft dodger.” People who refused to serve were not forced to under threat of execution, which is what happens in Ukraine.
That is not how things were in Afghanistan either – moreover it is not how things fell apart in Afghanistan – they did so because the units were not willing to fight hard risking their lives for something they did not believe in.
War in Afghanistan has been going on for decades. It is also a bad comparison to Ukraine, especially when you have ethnic Russians being the majority in certain regions of Ukraine.
If this was the case they would surrender every time there was a chance to do so, and they would fight very poorly the rest of the time – neither is the case or the Russians have much less motivated soldiers.
You can’t surrender if you being blown up by artillery and missiles. But even if they are motivated why let them get massacred when they don’t have the manpower or equipment to prevail. There’s no shame in a ceasefire and peace talks to stop
According to your theory the Ukrainians do not, and they are not motivated to fight the Russians, so this is not a problem. According to mine they are motivated and not failing to resist even when doing so is not narrowly aligned with their self-interest. So which is it?
I don’t have a theory. I’m just observing the facts on the ground. The Japanese were the most motivated soldiers in WWII, and their strategy was to kill as many Americans as possible, even when they knew they were losing. All that did was get two of their cities destroyed by nuclear bombs. Most of the world doesn’t want that History to repeat itself.
The US/NATO could not escalate this if the Ukrainians were not motivated no amount of smart new arms can force soldiers who only act in their own narrow self interest from being very poor soldiers and losing just about every battle they are in – that is not what we are observing, not on the Ukrainian side at least, the argument could be made that it is what we see on the Russian side outside Bakhmut.
The US and other NATO countries aren’t being destroyed, Ukraine is. I doubt most Ukrainians want that to continue.
There are however some who lose more than others, and your Russian friends are doing their very best to motivate the Ukrainians to fight – talking on Russian state TV about how many millions of Ukrainians they have to kill after winning the war.
Ukraine has the same type of propagandists, and they will all disappear after hostilities end. The longer the situation goes on the worse it will get. Why continue the suffering and deaths of soldiers and civilians on both sides? Both sides need to seek a ceasefire and peace talks. If you’re against that then you’re just a war monger.
The Ukrainians are not losing, and the only case where the nuclear blackmail becomes even remotely relevant is when they are actually winning.
Yes when the civil war was all but over and no significant part of the Northern States were occupied – but do not let that confuse you.
Then soldiers are not being impressed in Ukraine either – they are being conscripted.
We have and they are usually given some penalty/punishment.
Ethnic Russians were only the majority in Crimea.
The Russians manage quite fine to surrender and fight very poorly – and as for the Ukrainians not having the manpower or the equipment – how about letting them decide – as long as the number of Ukrainians surrendering or deserting is below the Russian numbers they are at a better place to win – they are currently killing the Russians in higher numbers than they are being killed and the Russian promises of killing Ukrainians who fail to be Russian enough after the end of fighting does kind of motivate the to fight even longer.
The Japanese were losing almost an order of magnitude more than the US and fighting a bigger nation – the Russians are losing 1.8 times the Ukrainians and failing to recruit new soldiers – the Ukrainian fight is nothing like the Japanese. NB these are the figures the Ukrainians and the US believes – which is what counts in this debate – as we cannot know the real figures.
You believe this without any substantial evidence based on facts on the ground – what facts there are is that the Ukrainians have much higher morale much fewer desertions and surrenders – and your only explanation for this is that the fairly sparse Ukrainian artillery is being used to convince Ukrainian soldiers not to give up – good to see that you stick to facts on the ground rather than absurd theories.
These were Russian propagandists – and their words are what motivate the Ukrainians – can you find me the Ukrainian propagandists with access to state media who are arguing for ethnical cleansing of the Russians after the war is over?
I’m not against ceasefire talks the Ukrainians are free to decide if and when they want to participate in such talks as far as I know they are currently talking with the Chinese – if the Ukrainians decide to make peace on any other terms than the full restoration of the January 2014 borders I am however for the west continuing sanctions to the furthest extend we can – simply because doing anything else is to invite others to copy the SMO – and I’m against war.
The Ukrainians are not losing, and the only case where the nuclear blackmail becomes even remotely relevant is when they are actually winning.
No one wins in war, and your nuclear blackmail excuse is just that, an excuse.
Yes when the civil war was all but over and no significant part of the Northern States were occupied – but do not let that confuse you..
Most of Ukraine isn’t occupied, and locating those who left the country in mass wouldn’t be that difficult. Stop making excuses for Zelensky’s despotism
Then soldiers are not being impressed in Ukraine either – they are being conscripted.
Videos show differently.
We have and they are usually given some penalty/punishment.
Yep, a ride to the front without training. lol
The Russians manage quite fine to surrender and fight very poorly – and as for the Ukrainians not having the manpower or the equipment – how about letting them decide – as long as the number of Ukrainians surrendering or deserting is below the Russian numbers they are at a better place to win – they are currently killing the Russians in higher numbers than they are being killed and the Russian promises of killing Ukrainians who fail to be Russian enough after the end of fighting does kind of motivate the to fight even longer.
They aren’t deciding. TheUS / NATO is
The Japanese were losing almost an order of magnitude more than the US and fighting a bigger nation – the Russians are losing 1.8 times the Ukrainians and failing to recruit new soldiers – the Ukrainian fight is nothing like the Japanese. NB these are the figures the Ukrainians and the US believes – which is what counts in this debate – as we cannot know the real figures.
Have you ever heard the term “Lies,damned lies,and statistics.” ?
You believe this without any substantial evidence based on facts on the ground – what facts there are is that the Ukrainians have much higher morale much fewer desertions and surrenders – and your only explanation for this is that the fairly sparse Ukrainian artillery is being used to convince Ukrainian soldiers not to give up – good to see that you stick to facts on the ground rather than absurd theories.
See previous response
These were Russian propagandists – and their words are what motivate the Ukrainians – can you find me the Ukrainian propagandists with access to state media who are arguing for ethnical cleansing of the Russians after the war is over?
Fears of ethnical cleansing is what caused this situation, which is why there should have been pressure from the US / NATO on both parties to finalize the Minsk Agreements. Any future peace agreement needs guarantees that ethnical cleansing won’t happen. Any Russians who call for that kind of action should face the consequences for doing so. The same applies to Ukrainian citizens.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-complaints-to-un-about-ukrainian-spy-chiefs-hate-speech/ar-AA1bmq2Q
Hopefully a peace agreement can be reached where compromises are made for the betterment of both countries
The city of Luhansk/Lugansk was repeatedly hit this week. It’s 81 miles from the front and evidently has no air defenses. So, it’s possible that the US provided GLSDB weapons have already been used.
Another possibility is Ukraine’s own GROM 2 missiles.
“Ukraine and its Western backers also don’t recognize Crimea as Russian
territory, meaning targeting the peninsula is not off-limits”
Umm . . . “No member of the United Nations recognizes Crimea as Russian territory, meaning targeting the peninsula is not off-limits.”
Fixed, no charge.
“No member of the United Nations recognizes Crimea as Russian territory”
Incorrect. Afghanistan, Armenia, Belarus, Bolivia, Cuba, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, North Korea, Nicaragua, Sudan, Syria, Venezuela, and Zimbabwe all recognize Crimea as Russian territory.
As, of course, does a 14th UN member state: Russia.
Oops!
You have to be careful with that rules-based order thingie.
The Russian MOD is fighting a very successful war of attrition disarming NATO (Ukraine was disarmed in March 2022), tank by tank, artillery by artillery, air defense by air defense. Russia now will fight NATO to the last European.
At the May 9th Victory Day Parade Vladimir Putin has included the De-occupation of Ukraine as an objective of the SMO. The SMO now will achieve De-Nazification, Demilitarisation and De-Occupation of Ukraine.
If the Ukrainian people want their sovereignty back then they need to remove NATO who has illegally occupied Ukraine since the coup in 2014.
NATO overall has accumulated the following equipment losses;
424 Aircraft, 231 helicopters, 4117 UAV’s, 421 Anti Aircraft systems, 9119 tanks inc. APC’s, 1100 multiple rocket launchers, 4806 rocket launchers and 10167 military automotive equipment.
What the empire looses in the Ukraine, they loose for the final Russian attack on NATO. Russia has shown they will pre-emptively attack to defend the Motherland when the time is dictated by events on the ground.
Russian Territory? As in the regions they illegally annexed from Ukraine?
Exactly how was it illegal? International law allows for self determination and the protection of people from ethnic cleansing and genocide.
I can agree a vote for self determination should have been considered. It’s been clear to me that there would be a war over it. It’s equally clear Biden wanted that war and helped set the pretext. None the less, there was no such vote, and it seems they want to settle this with bombs and blood. I do feel bad for the people of Ukraine and the regions Russia occupys. They are all just pawns in the game, sacrificed like lambs to the slaughter.
There actually was a plebiscite (vote) and over 90% support to join the Russian Federation. Russia annexed Crimea after that plebiscite.
Yes they are all just pawns in a greater game. Russia however operates within international law in this game. A game they will win.
Obama/Biden/Nuland set this war in motion. they knew what they were doing. Obama used ethnic cleansing and genocide as a means to control the ballot box and ensure the rabidly fascist anti Russian minority in Ukraine could maintain power, totally evil, totally illegal, the Hague calls it the supreme international crime, the crime of aggression.
The map, prior to his invasion, make it illegal.
I dissagree, When the people of Crimea saw the flags of the OUN proudly flying in Kiev after the violent overthrow of the government, (now that is illegal under international law) they left Ukraine and requested protection from Russia.
Russia had 20,000 troops in Sevastopol so the forces necessary to protect the ethnic Russians in Crimea were already in place.
Ukraine has not been a sovereign state since the illegal coup and the attack on the ethnic Russian population in the Donbass that followed was nothing more than a campaign of ethnic cleansing and genocide.
In these massive human right abuses committed by neo Nazi/Fascist military forces in the Donbass we clearly see that Russia operated within international law in protecting the people of Crimea.
As I have mentioned before, when they say they’re “considering or they’re sending,” it’s not like Amazon delivering packages–it means IT IS ALREADY F&CKING THERE! https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-ukraine-used-storm-shadow-missiles-britain-attack-luhansk-2023-05-13/
That is what luterally what Wallace said:
The Russian MOD is fighting a very successful war of attrition disarming NATO (Ukraine was disarmed in March 2022), tank by tank, artillery by artillery, air defense by air defense. Russia now will fight NATO to the last European.
At the May 9th Victory Day Parade Vladimir Putin has included the De-occupation of Ukraine as an objective of the SMO. The SMO now will achieve De-Nazification, Demilitarisation and De-Occupation of Ukraine.
If the Ukrainian people want their sovereignty back then they need to remove NATO who has illegally occupied Ukraine since the coup in 2014.
NATO overall has accumulated the following equipment losses;
425 Aircraft, 231 helicopters, 4135 UAV’s, 421 Anti Aircraft systems, 9159 tanks inc. APC’s, 1100 multiple rocket launchers, 4813 rocket launchers and 10193 military automotive equipment.
What the empire looses in the Ukraine, they loose for the final Russian attack on NATO. Russia has shown they will pre-emptively attack to defend the Motherland when the time is dictated by events on the ground.
On May 13, Germany announced that it would supply Kiev forces with a military aid package worth nearly $3 billion.
The German Ministry of Defence said in a statement that the package will include 30 additional Leopard 1A5 main battle tanks, 20 new Marder infantry fighting vehicles and more than 100 other smaller armored vehicles, as well as 200 surveillance drones, four new IRIS-T SLM air defense systems with 12 IRIS-T SLS launchers, numerous anti-aircraft missiles and 18 wheeled howitzers, possibly RCH-155, along with ammunition.
The new weapons promised by Germany will not change the balance of power in favor of Ukraine. However, they will prolong the conflict in the country.