Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said Monday that none of Ukraine’s Western backers has “done enough” to support Kyiv in a call for more military aid.
“Ukraine is grateful to partners for their military aid, but we should remain honest with one another: no one has done enough as long as Russian boots remain on Ukrainian ground,” Kuleba wrote on Twitter.
“Arming our country for victory is the shortest way to restoring peace and security in Europe & beyond,” the Ukrainian diplomat added.
Since Russia invaded Ukraine on February 24, 2022, the US has authorized about $112 billion to spend on the war, almost twice Russia’s entire military budget for 2021. According to the Pentagon, the US has pledged Ukraine more than $24.2 billion in military equipment alone since the Russian invasion.
Support for Ukraine also includes training, humanitarian assistance, and tens of billions provided directly to the Ukrainian government, known as direct budgetary aid.
Despite the massive support, Ukrainian officials keep demanding more. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s message to Congress and President Biden during his recent visit to Washington DC was that he was thankful for the help but that it wasn’t enough.
“We have artillery, yes. Thank you. We have it. Is it enough? Honestly, not really,” Zelensky said in his address to Congress. He also said the US should send heavy tanks and planes to Kyiv, which it has yet to provide.
The foreign Minister of the Ukrainian state is obligated to campaign for whatever benefits the Ukrainian state.
As as resident of the US of A, I have different priorities.
My pocket is is being continually drained to benefit the Ukrainian state, but even more so, the Yankee Merchants of Death.
On top of all that, the ongoing conflict between the planets two thermonuclear super powers invites Armageddon.
I decline to contribute.
Nothing will be enough. And nuclear Armageddon is now discussed as not so bad. Thinking back to almost a year ago when it was viewed as never-going-to-happen, pooh pooh.
The crux of the situation is that the Ukrainians can not drive the Russian army out of the occupied territory, regardless of the support from the US, UK, and Europe. Only overt, direct NATO massive combat forces can do this.
This fact has to be faced sooner or later. And then some decision has to be made.
Or we can just wait until the Russians tire of losing far more men in Ukraine per day than they did in Afghanistan in a war that promises only to make Russia poorer.
Russian losses are not high. They are using stand off weapons to wear down the Ukraine. And they pull back from areas where the Ukies mount local, costly (to them) offensives. Russia has many, many, many more human resources than does the Ukraine. That Russia will lose a war of attrition to the Ukraine seems very unlikely.
I know you keep saying this – most experts do not believe this and the Wagner group is not even claiming this to be the case – the losses in material suggests that the Russians are losing on a worse scale than the Ukrainians – so about the only irrefutable truth in what you write here is that the Russians have about 3 times as many men that they can lose.
Just to be clear the Russians are not going to lose a war of attrition in the ‘traditional’ sense, if that is how they are going to lose the war then it is in the Vietnamese sense i.e. because the Ukrainians are willing to sacrifice the number of men while the Russians are not (I cannot say if the Ukrainians are willing to do so, but so far it seems to be the case).
I personally see it as more likely that the Russians if the loses will do so because they lose the will to fight to be poorer – the issue being that even winning in Ukraine does not in any way mean that the average Russian will feel neither safer nor richer – so losing men to be worse off in every sense of the word except perhaps pride?
Most “experts” in the Western press are part of the MIC. Their reports of massive Russian losses are not remotely credible. It is undisputed that the Russians, since the very early days of the war, are relying on stand off weapons (in which they dominate), and are not engaging in massive infantry or armor attacks. There is simply no basis for believing the absurdly exaggerated Western “estimates” of staggering Russian losses. And, in any event, as you admit, the Russians have far more men to lose to begin with. As an aside, I think you put far too much credence in off the cuff comments allegedly made by Wagner group officers. Front line officers are never satisfied with the logistic efforts on their behalf. Also, the Wagner group are mercenaries, and thus even more expendable than are “regular” Russian troops, from the perhaps cynical view of the Russian High Command.
And, in the end, I don’t think it is really about “pride.” The Russians, in my view, genuinely believe that they are being squeezed in a NATO, nuclearized, cordon sanitaire. That their security, their sovereignty, perhaps even their national existence is at stake. You might think that’s crazy, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t believe it. Russia lost a whole lot more in WWII, and yet prevailed in the end.
The Wagner group is engaging in massive infantry attacks according to themselves and taking very significant losses. The Russians engaged in massive armor attacks in the first month of the war and took heavy casualties. They have since April engaged more in stand off fights using a 10-1 advantage in artillery.
That advantage has been eroded away (by HIMARS – taking out the shells, and by tear and wear of shooting so many shells) so that they by now enjoy a much smaller advantage (still an advantage though) which is likely why they opted to vacate Kherson west/north of the Dnieper and why they have failed to take Bakhmut until now (at least).
Well we need to explain why the Russians are not advancing but either just about holding on to what they have or losing territory each month since July/August. I do not trust any of the figures for KIA or WIA, from neither side, but only look to what the sides can achieve – the mud has prevented much from happening for a substantial amount of time, so if we get frozen ground we may see if there is much capacity on either side now, otherwise we will have to wait for the dryer pre summer time.
More men to lose and a higher disregard for their safety as recently evidenced – I attach some importance to what the people on the ground say about their own problems – as this is about the best information we have outside the circumstantial evidence provided. The figures for the losses of the opponents are very heavily influenced by propaganda and just not credible.
As are the LPR DPR forces – and I expect that the Ukrainian territorial defense forces are or at least were also seen as the forces that could be sacrificed back when Popasna fell – so I expected them to complain as indeed they did.
Thus the issue now is to explain why we see so much more complaints from the Russian side than we do from the Ukrainian – I could put it down as Ukrainian propaganda, but then the question is how can they outperform the Russians so massively (we are talking about e.g. Russian soldiers complaining on videos or Russian, about shell shortages, lack of equipment or equipment quality,…) – I may be in a bubble, if so direct me to the plethora of Ukrainian videos complaining about their similar problems (I know there were some in May and June but since they have gone fairly quiet).
I am prepared to agree that the Russian military and top management may think so – nothing suggests that the average Russians (the ones who have to do the fighting) believed this before 2022 – they may believe it now (much harder to know) what evidence I have seen suggests that the elderly overwhelming supported the SMO early on but the younger much less so (still above half). By now the ones who wants negotiation are growing fast (that does not mean that they want to yield what Russia currently occupies though!).
I do think it crazy, but as you point out my opinion is immaterial in this context, but what is relevant is the they did not consider taking large parts of Ukraine essential for their sovereignty, perhaps even their national existence, before 2021 – so if they think so right now they may reconsider as time goes by (if the Ukrainians avoid striking civilian targets in Russia – not an unimportant side note).
The reason the Russians are not advancing is precisely because they are minimizing casualties. They are doing in Bahkmut and Soledar exactly what they did in Mariupol and the twin cities….standing back, bombing and shelling and droning and rocketing and missiling the dug in Ukie positions to smithereens, and only then advancing. The Himars are overhyped and of no great importance, beyond PR. And all real reports are that the Ukie arty is wearing out, that the Ukies don’t have enough shells, etc, etc. Not the other way around. You rely on “reports” from Ukie sources, from Western sources, and from bogus Telegraph and Youtube sources. All of those are just propaganda.
And, again, all informed opinion about what’s really going on in Russia (as opposed to wishful thinking/disinformation/propaganda produced in the Ukraine and the West) suggests that public opinion supports the war and supports escalation.
We could go back and forth all day. You believe what you want to believe, because you are pro Ukie. I, whether you know it or not, am not actually pro Russian. I look at all sources, and use common sense, and what I have learned from studying military history over the years, and come to what I consider to be reasoned opinions. Not cheerleading. We are not going to resolve this argument on this website. Time and events will tell. I am willing to leave it at that, and give you the last word, if you like. But I won’t be responding to anymore t’is so/t’aint so, take apart line by line, posts of yours on this thread. I’m sorry, but I don’t find that to be a productive use of my time, because, as I said, I think you are a true believer, and thus not actually open to persuasion.
That then leaves us with the question why the need to minimize casualties forces them to advance no longer and still fight very hard to take Bakhmut – if they were not still on the offensive what you propose could make sense, but trying to advance near Bakhmut while having their artillery support at a significantly lower level than it was when taking Popasna contradicts this narrative.
They are manifestly not, they have used fewer shells they have launched more (failed) attacks and they have taken less ground (at least up to the 8’th of January.
So why did the Russians then ‘opt’ to fire much less artillery shells not too long after the HIMARS got deployed? Why did they suddenly have to conserve lives by no longer taking territory or taking very little while having to vacate substantial amounts of territory elsewhere – again your narrative does not fit the picture we have observed.
You meant the Russian artillery I suppose, that statement was not based on reports from any western source, but on the Russian sources reporting the number of shells they fired – Russia artillery (like Ukrainian and western ones) wear out after a certain number of shells, and have to be re-bored – the exact same thing applies to Ukrainian artillery and much of it has to be returned from the front to have the barrels changed (as the Ukrainians have fewer guns they are meeting the same problem as the Russians even though they have fired far fewer shells.
Don’t know what you are referring to here I stated that public support AFAIK was in support of the war in Russia, are you now saying that this is western propaganda???
Take a good look at what I wrote and you might see that I do not rely on western propaganda – I reported majority support for Putin – that somehow is now western propaganda and you are not pro Russian while believing in very heavy Ukrainian casualties and few Russian ones!!! No my friend you are if not pro Russian then at the very least given to attach far more weight to Russian reports than to what very little information that can be reasoned out from the developments we are seeing that both parties agree to.
I look to the Russian sources for their expenditure of shells I look to picture evidence as to the types of equipment they use at the front and to the ORYX for photographic documentation of equipment destroyed or captured – and finally I follow RT news to gauge how the Russians news is presented (and likely interpreted by e.g. the Ukrainians).
But I agree that we are not going to resolve this argument here, that was never going to happen, but I notice that you like to think that you are not pro Russian yet you forward decidedly pro Russian views – while I have no problem admitting that I am (if not pro Ukrainian) then at least anti Putin (as in against wars of aggression with the purpose of territorial conquest) – and yet I do not forward a the western propaganda views you claim I do.
[ I have not claimed that 600 Russians were killed in the HIMARS strike, that the Russians were beaten in the Kharkiv offensive or in the Kherson offensive – or any of the other myriad of pro Ukrainian versions of events – I have instead restricted myself to what is observable, i.e. very very little territory taken by the Russians since August and fairly large amounts of territory vacated – and from that try to figure out why that would be while they are not just on the defensive as evidenced e.g. by the repeated assaults at Bakhmut ]
That’s fine by me – I’m happy that you do not mind that I address the points you make one by one.
Well I’ll not return the flattery – as I doubt you will comprehend how much back to front you have the issues – I can be ever so much against the war Putin has chosen to start in 2022 (or 2014) without buying into any of the propaganda forwarded by the plethora of YouTube channels out there – or any of the other MSM sources these are only of any use to the extend that they reveal how badly the west is doing or how many problems the Ukrainians may face.
Michael, if you continue to write tomes, I guarantee that very few here will actually read them.
Michael can’t help it, nor himself.
I have no doubt that few read them, that is part of the unfortunate dynamics of debate i.e. it takes only a few lines to write baseless assertions it takes many to show why they are most likely wrong.
Ever hear the expression “short and to the point”?
I have and every time I try it, people accuse me of ignoring points, so I try to cover the points made, short assertions often require more words to show to be wrong – if you do not like long answers you are free to ignore them.
You write too much. Discussions leave breathing space. You smother people.
You do know that you can block me or just not read what I write?
I’m not smothering people, but trying to answer each point they raise.
If I did not people like you would accuse me as you just did recently of ignoring things (specifically you accused me of “deliberate avoidance of the history post cold war is telling and pathetic“).
https://news.antiwar.com/2023/01/08/sweden-says-it-cant-meet-some-of-turkeys-demands-to-join-nato/#comment-6085816676
“most experts do not believe this and the Wagner group is not even claiming this to be the case…”
Name me five. Newspaper editors and commenters do not count, nor do active military. Obviously the Biden administration is out too. I’m speaking only of experts with demonstrated integrity.
Anders Puck Nielsen
Markus Reisner
Jürgen Wimmer
Andreras Alexa
Berthold Sandtner
Tony Radakin
4 out of those 6 are from a non NATO country.
Steven Pifer
Igor Girkin – not as such an expert with demonstrated integrity but fiercely pro Russian and yet admitting to higher losses in many actions he has knowledge about
I could find you far more, but as you are just going to dismiss them I’m not convinced that it is worth my time.
Danes, Brits, and Austrians and so on. In other words, Westerners. Some NATO, some not. But all on board with Slava Ukraine. What a joke.
See – dismissed without a second thought – Igor Girkin too – well why even bother to answer!
Plus one dissident Russian. Big deal.
I can find you a lot of Russia millbloggers that say the same, but seeing as you would just dismiss them like calling Igor Girkin one of the most pro Russian out there a dissident – it is as I say not worth my time.
Take a look at this video, for some analyists even in the West who understand about the relative losses of the Ukies and the Russians, about what is really happening at Bakhmut, about the lack of importance of the Wagner group’s alleged gripes, about the six to one Russian artillery advantage at Bakhmut, about how Russian tactics have been focussed on minimization of causualties since the early days of the war, and so on.
Also, you might consider that Western arty is not nearly as robust as Soviet/Russian arty. The Ukraine had Soviet arty at the start of the war, but that seems to have been mostly lost. Now it depends on Western arty, which wears out much quicker. And, when it does, it has to be sent back to Poland for repair. Hundreds and hundreds of miles. Whereas Russian arty, when it does wear out, need only be sent back a few miles into the mini republics or Russia proper for repair.
What you call “Russia millbloggers” are most likely plants. Western sponsored propagandists. Shadowy figures who post on YouTube and Telegraph without using their real names. Purveyors of unverified videos that have no basis in authenticity, with dubbed or mistranslated audio, etc.
Beyond that, the West is engaging in a full court propaganda offensive the likes of which have not been seen since WWII. It encompasses official statements of the Ukie and NATO governments, the MSM, the MIC dominated “think tanks,” publications, and websites, and the claims of various “experts” who are bought and paid for, or otherwise “on board” with the program. But it also includes bloggers and other social media content providers. It is no secret that the West is subsidizing these “sources” as well. Even allegedly “pro Russian” bloggers who are critical of Russian efforts are sponsored by the West, the USA, NATO and the MIC. As well as having their own internal, intramural axes to grind. Girkin crticizes the Russian war effort and the decisions of the high command. That makes him a dissident. Too bad if you don’t like it. But, you’re right, your time could probably be spent more profitably elsewhere. Why don’t you go to that place, wherever it is.
ETA: It is also standard Western racist practice to claim that its military opponents (Soviets, Chinese, North Koreans, Vietnamese, and now Russians) engage in mindless, loss of life indifferent, “human wave” attacks.
So even your very pro Russian source have the Russian advantage in artillery down from 10 to 1 in the Popasna break through to 6 to 1 now – so down by 40 percent.
No western artillery does not wear out its barrels faster than Russian artillery – the quality of Russian steel is not in general superior to western steel (often quite the opposite) and no the artillery cannot just be shipped back a few miles their repair facilities are much further back, the mini republics do not have the facilities for a as massive task.
Sure as they have been providing the standard Russian line until about July that sounds very likely.
Well how about those that were carrying the flag for the Russians until July and are still very much pro Russian announcing Russian military victories often before these are actually true?
Oh I like it, are they going to arrest him that would make a lot of Dutch and Indonesian people really happy – but then they are not because he is not a true dissident.
Not to worry I have the time to refute BS like this.
Simple nay saying….Russian arty IS more robust. Everyone knows that. And six to one is plenty good enough. Jeez. And that’s as the West sees it! No matter what your pet Russian says!
Six to one may be enough, but your claim was that the HIMARS had no impact – given the slowdown and need to deploy the strongest unit elsewhere the Russians were thrown out of Kharkiv oblast – losing Izium was quite the news issue over there.
Now your favorite Sergei Surovikin (general Armageddon) has been demoted – but still your claim is that everything is going to plan and the Russians have no trouble… well sorry that some of us who are not so gullible as to trust either side on their propaganda are arriving at a different conclusion.
Russian advance continues on the central front…Bakhmut and Soledar. Himars notwithstanding. Himars are no better than the standard Russian equivalent, of which the Russians have more, better trained troops, more ammo, etc, etc. Himars are for PR.
And, again, six to one arty superiority is plenty.
Kherson counteroffensive stalled and ineffective (city can’t be occupied). Kharkov counteroffensive also stalled, and meaningless anyway.
My “claim” is that the Ukraine is not winning. That a war of attrition is going on, one which favors Russia. Of course the Russians have some “trouble.” Few to none wars are won without any “trouble.”
And I say that without buying into propaganda from Russia, or from the West/Ukraine.
Sure – not even your Russian friends are claiming this!
From about 1:52 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAdmz1Ho8tg
Had the HIMARS been nothing special they would not have made it so difficult to resupply the Russian forces on the north western side of Dnipro and they would not have had to vacate Kherson
The point is not whether it is plenty but that it is 40% lower than when they took Popasna, are you now claiming that they were wasting ammunition and barrel life at Popasna?
Kherson has been liberated and is under Ukrainian control – the offensive is not moving on from there as the Dniepro is a barrier that neither side is likely able to cross. The Kharkiv offensive has been successful and has been on pause since the muddy season set in – currently the fight is mostly near Kremina – but yes not moving much – but then I never claimed that the Ukrainians were now dominant or that HIMARS would allow them to go on an all out offensive (certainly not in the muddy season).
I have never claimed that the Ukrainians are winning the battle of attrition based on them killing more Russians than they get killed of their own – did you think I had claimed this?
You have just dismissed all western experts as bought and payed for, and to boot any Russians who do not tow the party line – that leaves only the Russian propagandists who have not said anything that can be interpreted as critical of Putin’s SMO.
You are now descending into the realm of complete stupidity. Ten to one arty supremacy is good. Six to one is good too. So is five to one. None are wastful, but all are enough. Seriously? This is what you have come to. You are either a moron or a completely shameless troll. Take your pick.
No I’m saying that if 6 to one is fine why did they use 10 to 1 earlier – remember the claim is that the lower usage is down to HIMARS – if you have already forgotten this then….
As for the Russians having an equivalent system to the HIMARS – why have they not made the bridges over the Dniper in Zaporizhzhia useless – they are less than 50 km from Russian held territory.
Can I recommend trying to go over the debate to remember why we are bringing up subjects before claiming that your opponent is a moron – it might save you looking bad.
The Russians have total arty dominance. They did then, they do now, they will in the future. Himars or not. If you seriously dispute this, then you are stupid. End of story.
I never disputed that the Russians have artillery dominance – that would just be wrong, the point I did make is that the artillery dominance has been severely reduced (even by your estimates by as much as 40%) – I further argue that this dominance reduction happened after the introduction of HIMARS.
Now if you want to admit that HIMARS has had a significant impact just say so, and stop the feeble attempts at insults.
You made the claim that HIMARS is nothing special and that the Russians have equal systems, so why is it that they have not made the the bridges across the Dniper in Zaporizhzhia useless like HIMARS did the bridges in Kherson?
It seems to be you who have made a wrong claim and are now just trying to wriggle your way out of the pain of admitting that you were and are wrong about the significance of HIMARS – but do go on it is rather entertaining.
Imbecile.
Feeble as I predicted.
Ok Ruskielawyer. The preferred stand off weapon that The Russia is using is called cannon fodder. The Russia has many many of them. You can see them scattered all over the battlespace, falling off trucks, as well as the many unclaimed corpses in Ukrainians makeshift morgues. Probably turned into fertilizer now since there is no electricity.
The Russia KIA number is undeniably high.
What a clown you are.
Is that why we left Vietnam? Because “guns and butter” appeared to an LBJ illusion with that “Great Society” bs.
55,000 body bags, actually. The war was never LBJ’s war. It was McNamara’s war. Johnson’s mistake was trying to avoid the impression of shoving the Kennedy’s to the back when he took over. By the time he realized the whiz kids were full of crap, it was too late to get out. He was never a military tactician and he knew it. The war he helped to pursue killed him.
The US left Vietnam because the Vietnamese were willing to lose 10 men for each one the US lost and the US was not prepared to lose one for every 10 that the Vietnamese were willing to lose. Likely also because it was driving many young in the US abroad and driving a generational gap that perhaps scared the politicians.
So no mostly for very different reasons, some may be shared though.
Don’t forget too that the USA routinely exaggerated the loss of NVA and VM fighting men (while lying and minimizing civilian casualties….”if it’s dead and its Vietnamese, it’s VC”….). Just as with the current US war of imperialist aggression, the enemy’s military “body count” as produced by the US is more a product of wishful thinking, disinformation, cheerleading for “our” side, and just flat out BS than it is an accurate count or even realistic estimate.
I have not forgotten – why would I, as for the US lying in this – well I would not know, if they do it is at least a very reduced number if compared to the Ukrainian figures – as the US is not on the ground in Ukraine they do not as far as I know publish figures at all, only very vague estimates.
Anyway why would you bother with their figures, I don’t I do not even bother to pay attention to the figures published by the Ukrainians for the Russian losses – the parties involved have fairly bad incentives when it comes to these figures.
And yet you think that Western “experts” are any better than the Ukies? They aren’t. They repeat the “vague estimates” over and over again. And push those same “estimates” in the media and social media. Including the dark social media.
Western experts are not better than Ukrainian ones, but they are not subject to Ukrainian laws regarding what they publish – and if you had been paying any attention, you would know that I have not been asserting that their figures were correct, just that the Russian ones for their own losses are not, and that pro Russian sources contradict the Russian MoD regarding their own losses.
Noticing this you call them dissidents etc. well talk about denying to face the possibilities that your source for this could be wrong! And you call me a true believer – its a fairly clear case of you accusing me of what you do yourself.
Western “experts” are full of crap. And generally bought and paid for.
Yes only the Russians can be trusted. /s
Nope. The best information is when the Western governments, the Ukies, the Western MSM, Western mercs, etc admit things that are true that are not in their interest. Few and far between, but out there. Russian info does tend to be somewhat more trustworthy than Ukie, because it is more specific. But should not be taken at face value either, unless, again, it is against interest.
This is what led you to the conclusion that Igor Girkin is a dissident without credibility and that the Wagner PMC’s saying anything critical are just ‘insincere’ ?
Girkin’s own complaints about the high command mark him as a dissident. That’s different than Russian MOD admitting to losses, and the like. And you are like a dog with a bone with that Wagner thing. They are mercenaries bitching about this or that. They don’t represent the “regular” Russian army. And even that’s assuming that your dubious YouTube/Telegraph/”Russmill” bloggers are authentic, as to their true state. They seem to be gaining ground, to me!
You are systematically dismissing any other source than the ones keeping to the Kremlin script and claiming that you are not biased and even that you are looking for evidence that the Russian figures are perhaps not as claimed – that is not how this is done.
Really??? The Russians have lost territory since August – if we go month by month they have taken very small net amounts in several months, but lost very significant amounts in the rest. So while I’m not claiming that this is evidence of Ukraine gaining ground, I most certainly am saying that it is evidence that the Russians are not either.
That said they may take some amounts of territory as a consequence of Soledar likely being lost to the Ukrainians – still that would be a poor replacement for the territory lost in Kherson and the loss of Izium and Lyman.
No part of Russia is occupied. A nice good chunk of the Ukraine is. Russia is winning the war; the Ukraine is losing it. All else is makeweight verbiage.
Well by this definition Russia will be winning even when forced to vacate Crimea – right up until they leave the very last small toehold they have on any Ukrainian territory.
If that is how we define winning then we can finally agree Russia is winning, while on retreat – it kind of makes a mockery of the term winning, but if that is the definition then that is how it has to be.
I’m not so sure, if you are a native European, why you consider your yourself an expert on Vietnam.
That was my generation’s war, and it was WE who stopped it: massive demonstrations, draft-card burnings, and as Bears mentioned, the images of all those body bags disembarked at Amerikkkan locations.
Nixon campaigned on the premise that he’d end the war, which he did, eventually, though in the worst possible way.
Again, it was American youth who stopped that war and it had little to do with so-called body counts, since our government naturally lied to us about that as well. One friend who served in Nam told me that if you shot in the direction of an enemy combatant, it was considered a “kill”.
That was the reason I mentioned in the generational gap scaring the politicians.
None of tis is news to me – the reason that the young protested is the that they were not prepared to lose one for every 10 that the Vietnamese were willing to lose – as they did not see a any good coming from the war even if won.
NATO will lose , Why because joe public will not stand for the tens of thousands of NATO soldiers who will be killed by the Russian Military , high tech weapons will only get you so far , then the infantry has to go in and hold the ground they have fought for , infantry win wars , When Hitler invaded Russia not one of his high command had a clue just how vast Russia is / was which contributed to the German defeat .
When the US occupied a considerable part of Vietnam, the Russians weren’t able to drive it out. They just conducted an extended, expensive proxy war against the US until the US abandoned its occupation.
The US is a much wealthier proxy warfare regime than the Soviet Union was. It can keep this sh*t up forever.
The US doesn’t share a border with Vietnam. Nor was a large fraction of its population citizens of the USSR.
True. So the Russians may spend even more blood and treasure before giving up.
Or, they might not give up at all. Ever. Or, they might win.
Their problem being that if they win all they would have achieved is a Pyrrhic victory – as in they would have expended too much blood to achieve it and they would as a nation be much poorer with little hope of regaining their prior standards of living.
That’s possible.
You have absolutely no idea why the Russians have made this move – none.
No you are naturally right, if the Russians started the SMO to unite and grow NATO and to make the Russian economy weaker and in short supply of a lot of crucial components, and finally to make a lot of highly skilled Russians flee Russia, then they are achieving what they set out to do.
So the US plan is to spend over 100 billion a year in military aid, and 50+ billion a year to finance their government
Meanwhile, we bomb Western Ukraine and they bomb Eastern Ukraine. This sounds horrible for Ukraine, as if the US and Russia are cooperating to completely destroy every last bit of Ukraine. And both major nations will spend substantial amounts of resources to do all of this damage.
Yes, that about sums it up.
Were you under the impression that I was describing ought, rather than is?
Vietnam was eminently expendable to the USA. The Ukraine, at least the eastern portions of it, is not to Russia.
A more apt comparison might be the USA/CSA conflict. The USA spent what was, for the time, an enormous amount of men, material, money, time, opportunity costs, armies, navies, merchant marine, etc, etc. rather than just let the CSA go.
The Russians don’t see this as a proxy war. The Americans do. The Russians see it as an existential war. Same as the USA did in 1861. The USA can quit any time it wants to, and nothing will be lost, save honor (which it has almost none of anyway). Russia, if it loses, could well face dismemberment. At a minimum, it would be a weakling, limping state, at the mercy of the USA and NATO.
There are about 150 million Russians. Not having consulted many of them them (I have a couple of friends there, but don’t make the mistake of considering them representative of an entire population), I have no way of knowing that there’s any consensus among “the Russians” on the matter. That at least some of “the Russians” fled the country for various reasons (including fear of conscription), and that others have gone to prison for refusing to toe the regime’s line with sufficient enthusiasm, indicates that there’s at least not anything resembling unanimity among them on the matter.
Russia as a polity is unlikely to face “dismemberment” just because it can’t retrieve part of its lost empire, although it continuing to try to do so may well result in “dismemberment” in the form of some of its satrapies getting more independent. It’s already a weakling, limping state, and the only real question is whether it gets weaker and more lame as fast as, or faster, or more slowly than, its primary imperial adversary (the US) … and how long it can avoid “dismemberment” to its east and south.
All credible sources point to the main dissatisfaction in Russia being the loss of patience with the alleged “pussyfooting” around. The opposition to Putin appears to be more hardline than he is, rather than more dovish.
And Russians may see things differently than you do, when it comes to your second paragraph. It always tempting to believe the other side will “see reason,” and give up. Indeed, the Russians themselves may have made this mistake, at the beginning of the war. But States tend to be resilient, and to persist in wars, once started.
unanimity is a ridiculous yardstick, completely ridiculous.
Very apt comparison, PL!
This.
Maybe we should just offer to buy Russia. After all, we approach everyone in the world as if they are like us, no integrity and no self-respect.
Should be a no-brainer and fit our national character to a tee.
“Forever”, Thomas?
You don’t believe that Amerikkkans will eventually tire of having our pockets bled dry by the MIC, nor continue to accept the rampant inflation caused by the ByeDone regime?
I beg to differ. Already, Ukraine is becoming a required afterthought on the evening news, if it’s there at all. Recall that Amerikkkans have VERY short attention spans, and “war fatigue” is already beginning to set in.
There’s not a snowball’s chance in hell that the Cadaver-in-Chief will triumph in ‘24, and I have to believe that whatever opponent faces him will run on a campaign promise to negotiate an end to this fiasco and put Amerikkkan taxpayer dollars to better use.
I sincerely hope that Amerikkkans will eventually tire of all that and overthrow the regime.
But you seem to be arguing against yourself here.
Either Amerikkkans have VERY short attention spans or “war fatigue” is beginning to set in a way that portends them focusing on it and demanding an end to it.
The “war fatigue” in question will likely be like that with Iraq and Afghanistan — Amerikkkans will just get tired of hearing about it and it will roll on for as long as the regime feels like rolling it on.
Hopefully not, Thomas…
Ukraine is now a failed state , and as corrupt as the day is long , another raging success for the yanks .
“Ukraine FM Says ‘No One Has Done Enough’ to Support Ukraine The US has authorized around $112 billion to spend on the war”
Disgusting criminal looking for more free handouts to steal.
American citizens will be paying for this war for generations.
How about this? ESAD. I’m tired of seeing my public “servants” pump money down a rathole.
Your rat hole are the wallets and purses of those who profit from endless wars and blood letting around the world in DC and industry.
you couldn’t make this shit up
Will someone tell these poor bastards point blank that they are being used? Read the f*king writing on the wall.
both idiots taste the same
Sounds like corrupt, greedy politician talk. He knows it is really all done, that Ukraine can’t win and it is no more than to butcher and kill more people. He must have known it before the war started. He knew a little dog has to be very stupid to provoke a big dog just because someone with conflicts of interests says so. All he wants is more money and he will go on throwing the nations young men under the bus, as long as paid.
Such criminal types are the total USA/NATO band of war criminals, they will not stop killing as long as the money comes in.
Lol, Renate: Ukraine reminds me of a yappy little Yorkie right before the Doberman eats it for lunch.
So fitting, LOL
$100 billion just from America, billions more from NATO isn’t enough, How ungrateful can you be?
If you didn’t want a war with Russia, why on earth did you shell the Donbass for 8 years?
Stop supporting these Ukranazis already!
Ukraine troops to train in Oklahoma, Another step in bringing the war home. If I were a Ukie soldier, I’d volunteer and then either disappear into the masses in LA or get a lawyer and claim asylum using all the evidence re. the truth about the war and how it really started. https://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=ukraine+to+train+in+oklahoma&ia=web
It’s a pretty long jaunt from Fort Sill to LA.
Hell, it’s a pretty long jaunt from Fort Sill to anywhere worthwhile.
I swear to God, my old combat boots probably still have that nasty red mud ground into their soles.
Who’s to say what’s “worthwhile”, Thomas?
One of the loveliest couples I’ve ever had the pleasure of knowing were Okies. And I’d sure as shit rather live in Oklahoma than LA.
“Who’s to say what’s ‘worthwhile?'”
I am. And you are. And so is everyone else.
I don’t have anything against Oklahoma. Eastern Oklahoma as far west as Tulsa and as far south as Wister used to be the western edge of my stomping grounds. I just have something against Fort Sill. Which is in the middle of nowhere even by Oklahoma standards, which is colder than a well-digger’s ass in winter, and which has endless amounts of red clay demanding to be dug up for mortar pits.
Okaaaay Thomas!
As far as cold though, remember, I live in the Mitten 😉
Better you than me. Nothing against Michigan but I wouldn’t want to live there, and wouldn’t visit during winter. If it was up to me, we’d live within 10, rather than 30, degrees of the equator.
I actually rather like it Thomas. I believe that winter is the earth’s resting period, or at least in my neck of the woods.
And it’s the only time we have for home improvement projects, of which we have several going on at this time ( hubby is capable of just about anything.)
Once the temps hit 50/55, there’s nothing that can keep us indoors!
When I was a kid, I loved winter.
Once I became an adult, I put up with it.
Once I moved to Florida, I wondered why I was willing to put up with it for so long.
Har!
Hubby would be perfectly content to live in Florida but I suspect that I’d dislike gators, poisonous snakes and fire ants.
I guess that’s the advantage of having a cold season.
Michigan has the fewest natural disasters of any state too.
And climate change has brought about a noticeable difference in our winters; we haven’t had snow on the ground since Christmas, and that didn’t amount to much.
But mostly Thomas, I love my home and property and I’ll live here until I can no longer take care of it. The good news is I’m getting a brand-new hip in two weeks! 🙂
The only poisonous snake I’ve run across here in north Florida was a copperhead. I was concerned about gators at first, but when I pulled up a topo map of the area, the nearest sizable body of water is several miles away. That, and my wife now has a special pet gator friend who lives in a stream outside her office, and occasionally crosses the street — using the crosswalk, with everyone else. Fire ants, though, are an abomination.
We’ve GOT a cold season where I’m at — 28 degrees when I got up this morning. It’s just that we seldom get below 20, and even when we do it’s 1) occasional and split up instead of weeks at a time, 2) only really, really cold overnight, and 3) usually gets at least into the 50s by afternoon.
Yesterday, I officially stopped smoking inside the house as of kickoff in the 49ers/Seahawks game. This morning, I didn’t go outside for my first cigarette of the day until a few minutes ago. So maybe the cold will help me kick the habit!
I’m glad you love where you live. I wish that for everyone. And congrats on the new hip!
Thanks Thomas!….from one smoker to another 😉
I hate to admit it, but I have no intention of ever quitting.
The gator crossing with the light is hilarious!
Well, I don’t really like the idea of quitting, but now I’ve got Langerhans cell histiocytosis, which may improve if I stop. Looks less likely that I have the Big C, but that’s also a possibility.
God almighty Thomas I hope you’ve got a CT scan scheduled? Or biopsy?
Hubs had lung surgery a few years ago to remove a spot that wasn’t supposed to be there. It turned out to be an encapsulated infection: they found pneumonia inside of it.
It scared the bejeebers out of him and he quit.
Keep me posted on your progress Thomas. Lots of good thoughts for you 🙂
I had the CT scan, which revealed the problem.
Next, I see a lung doctor for follow-up.
Thanks for the good wishes!
Thomas please keep me posted!
Oh boo-fucking-hoo. Translation: Amerikkkan taxpayers aren’t being bled enough.
Somebody stuff a dirty sock in this fool’s mouth.
Douglas Macgregor
To start with honesty, FM Kubela knew exactly what the Ukrainians got themselves into. But the money and power that comes with it was right.
This war started way back. Ukraine lost all sovereignty with the Obama/Biden regime change. Biden knows every detail about that part of history, he had a 4 year break during the Trump administration and continued immediately with the policy the day he was sworn in. Zelensky appeared to visit shortly after the inauguration to continue. Biden knew enough to change course and pick up and start a common sense diplomatic solution. But he did not, this is Biden’s war not Putin’s. Biden is a power-hungry corrupt senile old man. He was always a big war hawk, a monstrous hypocrite. He is a killer, the leader of the gang of killers in Kiev and DC.
To just be clear, that is what it is.