The Polish government has rebuffed an offer from Germany to deploy Patriot air defense missiles to Poland by suggesting that they should be sent to Ukraine instead, which would significantly escalate NATO involvement in the war with Russia.
Sending the Patriots to Poland would require deploying German troops to operate them, which would mean direct NATO intervention in the war. German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht rejected the idea on the grounds that Ukraine is not a NATO member.
“These are Patriot systems that are part of integrated NATO air-defense planning. That’s why it was possible to make this offer to Poland,” Lambrecht said. “Any proposal that deviates from that must now be discussed with NATO and with our allies.”
Germany made the offer after a Ukrainian air defense missile landed in Poland, killing two people. Poland initially suggested that it would accept Germany’s offer for the Patriot deployment, which would also involve German warplanes flying near the Ukrainian border.
The Polish rejection of the German offer highlights the tensions between the two NATO members. Poland has been a major supporter of Ukraine, having sent hundreds of Soviet-era tanks to the country, and has criticized the German government of Chancellor Olaf Scholz for being too hesitant to arm Kyiv.
The Polish government faced domestic criticism for its suggestion that the Patriots should be sent to Ukraine. Rzeczpospolita, a Polish daily newspaper, said the decision was “shocking” since it “would involve NATO in a direct clash with Russia, something the alliance has been trying to avoid from the beginning.”
73 thoughts on “Poland Rebuffs Germany’s Offer to Deploy Patriot Missiles”
“Sending the Patriots to Poland would require deploying German troops to operate them, which would mean direct NATO intervention in the war.”
That should be “Ukraine” and not “Poland”
The Polish action seems to hark back to March, when NATO proposed Poland transfer fighter jets to Ukraine, and Poland – not wanting to be a Russian target – counter-proposed the planes go to a German US/NATO airbase for transport to Ukraine – after which the US/NATO backed out.
Warplanes and NATO anti-aircraft counter-fire on the Ukraine border? Too much of a brinkmanship provocation, and too accident-prone – plus, again, that makes Poland the NATO ‘front line’ – as the US idea of Poland delivering fighter jets would have.
So – again – telling Germany to deliver the weapons too Ukraine? Poland knows Germany won’t do that, just as the US/NATO wouldn’t send planes from Germany before.
2/27 – give old warplanes to Ukraine, sez EU (Guardian)
late Feb – Russia: ‘any country airfield planes later used by Ukranians – country is part of war’ (Guardian)
3/5 – Biden met w/Poland, “trying to find a way” for Poland to transfer planes (NYT)
3/6 – Poland/Slovakia – no potential ‘plane deal’ (WSJ)
3/7 – Psaki – ” “We are not, certainly, preventing or blocking or discouraging Poland” (WSJ)
3/7 – Blinken – Poland had “green light” to send warplanes. (Forbes)
3/6-7 – Zelensky asking for planes and, again, NATO No Fly Zone (Forbes), which US and NATO said no to;
3/8 – Poland offers planes to US German airbases; (WSJ etc.)
3/8 – US rejects idea, no, it says, that would entangle NATO/US in a war action
It seems that the Poles never stop trying to produce a false flag provocation for getting Nato forces into Ukraine.
The Ukrainian missile hitting Poland was most likely a false flag incident too. They go to any length to get NATO involved.
The S-300 rockets self-destruct if they miss their target to avoid unintended damage on the ground. The self-destruct function only be disabled before launch.
“having sent hundreds of Soviet – era tanks to the country (Ukraine)” and also thousands of polish soldiers.
The main concern of Poland is the establishment of good relations between Germany and Russia. Polish elite and Anglo-Saxon oligarchy interests here coincide. Thats why the rulers of US are considering Poland as their most reliable partner in East Europe. Both Anglo-Saxon oligarchs and polish Russo-phobic elite understand that the economic interests of Germany and Russia coincide, and the interests of Germany/Russia and Anglo-Saxon oligarchy don’t coincide.
The possible replacement of German pro-American elite by pro-German elite is the main danger for Anglo-Saxon oligarchy. European politics of Anglo-Saxons is about that (keep Germans down and Russians out).
After the war, the Anglo-Saxons needed Germany as bulwark against the Soviet Union because without German industry, Europe would have been much weaker economically. Now that the iron curtain has moved Eastward, the Anglos-Saxons want to weaken Germany and strengthen Poland as the driving force behind an Intermarum from the Baltic to the Black Sea as new bulwark against the Russian Federation. If the Germans have any sense they get rid of their trans-Atlantic elite and join the Eurasian countries, which would greatly benefit the German economy. Unfortunately, “good sense” seems to be a rare commodity in today’s Germany. Boris Johnson’s revelations according to which the Germans had hoped for a quick end to the war is further proof that the trans-Atlantic elite has the knifes out for Germany.
You nailed it. There’s no “good sense” in the US/UK/Anglo-Saxons either. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be relentlessly pursuing war with Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran all at the same time. I just checked outside. There’s no voters protesting in the streets. They’re out shopping, adding to their credit card debts.
“Common sense is not so common.” – Voltaire
Yes, Germany is being weakened deliberately by the “Anglo-Saxons” or whatever you want to call them. Germans are fully aware that the same evil cabal blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2. That was to cut off energy supplies to German industry, driving Germany this winter into an economic depression that they haven’t experienced since WWII. It’s anyone’s guess whether German nationalism will once again raise its ugly head.
German nationalism is as ugly and arrogant as American/British or any other nationalism is. Many people confuse it with patriotism which is different.
Our war mongers, neo-Nazis like Biden, Blinken, Sullivan, Nuland, the Kagans and all the others are as criminal as any Nazi.
that scumbag, Zelensky walks around in his olive green T-shirt, the biggest sacrifice he makes while filling his pockets with USD, funded by the American and European people .
Nationalism is dangerous. It gets countries in troubles they do not need.
German nationalism is German. It is and always has been quite different from British or French nationalism.
The Germans have a strong middle Europe component (one part, but an important part), that is just not like the Anglo-Saxon assumptions. They are a middle ground, not entirely on the one side.
Imperialism is an extreme form of nationalism. It’s expansionist in nature. Imperialism takes different forms in different countries. In Germany of the 1930s, it took the form of Nazism.
Maybe if anything is left of Europe Germany can turn to Russia something the British tried to prevent going back to the peace treaty of Westphalia in 1648.
I do believe Boris Johnson, it makes sense, the last time the Germans did make sense. They never expected the ally USA would stab them in the back.
I think the German public expected that the USA would stab them in the back all along. They know that Germany and the USA are controlled by the same evil cabal that brought us World Wars I and II, and all the Middle East wars of this century.
The elite does, but the public has been politically manipulated to see the USA as a friend.
The German and American people truly believe it and are friends.
It’s hard to know what the American people truly believe. In August of 2001 almost no one believed that it would be a good idea to invade Afghanistan. By the end of September, fully 80% of them were all for it. What do you suppose changed their minds so dramatically?
Next to nothing is required to change the minds of Americans. They are among the most easily manipulated people on the planet,
Yes, between the educational system and the MSM, it doesn’t take much to brainwash the dumb downed American public.
Problem is, even though Americans might be aware of how they’re being manipulated, there’s absolutely nothing they can do about it. Both major parties are in on the deception. That’s why the real perps of 9/11 are gloating about their crimes even two decades later.
Maybe it is because American oligarchy learned much better than the others how to manipulate people.
The oligarchs are intellectually and morally as bankrupt as any German Nazi was. Hitler is waiting for them to join him in hell.
American oligarchy is promoting Nazi ideology in Europe not because they share this ideology but because it is creating conflicts in Europe and makes Europe weaker and more subordinated to American oligarchy, while American MIC is making money.
At home they do the opposite because the national-socialist ideas based upon the perceived interests of the white majority can eventually destroy the oligarchy political system. Thats why they are promoting the interests of every kind of minorities at expense of American middle class.
GOVERNMENT MANIPULATION and CORPORATE NEWS OWNERS. See how all of them are goose stepping to the Deep State government narrative.
That is true for the Iraq invasion too, they needed to get public opinion on their side before it got too hot in Iraq, They made it, more than 60% supported the invasion by MARCH, just on time.
Again, the push to war in Iraq made any resistance to it futile. I was in London the night we attacked. Millions of Brits were in the streets protesting. In the USA… nothing that made it into our illustrious MSM.
When Cameron failed to get approval for bombing Syria because, after the Iraq war, there was still too much war fatigue in the House of Commons, he decided to launch a media war to depict the Assad regime as the devil incarnate. Thanks to Cameron’s media war against the British people, opinion gradually shifted to allow for supporting the Jihadists (the so-called “moderate rebels”) in Syria.
Before Western governments can launch a war they have to wage a media war against their own people because most people don’t normally want to go to war.
Germans are very naïve in this respect. They truly believe that the Americans are their friends and that they wouldn’t do anything to harm Germany.
I have the impression that Boris Johnson and Brexit Britain were particularly eager to fan the conflict in Ukraine. Perhaps the idea was that the war in Ukraine would weaken the EU after Britain had failed to initiate an EU collapse with its own exit. The EU is more affected by Angl0-Saxon wars in the ME and Ukraine because of the flow or refugees and its economic ties. But it looks like this strategy may be backfiring.
You may be right. Both the USA and UK worked together to weaken the EU. The UK while an EU member really served the USA as their undercover agent. The EU was an economic competitor like Japan and China. The US did cut the Japanese economy and even now their economy is below what it was 1986. It was economic competition that caused Pearl Harbor and they destroyed the German economy totally twice, this is the third time and now China is on the list too. Yes, wars are always about economics, and resources, always. It is Biden’s war in Ukraine, he is set to destroy Europe and China next. The US dismantled the British empire too, they devalued the British Pound so it could not compete with the USD. Yep, I think you are right.
“After the war, the Anglo-Saxons needed Germany as bulwark against the Soviet Union” and Soviet Union needed East Germany as bulwark against NATO. 45 post WW II years proved that USA were much more successful than Soviet Union in creating a decent living standard for the ordinary people. That is why by 1990 not only East Germans and Poles, but also most Russians wanted to change their political system for something similar to USA. In the last 30 years, USA political system became to look much less attractive to Russians; so, most Russians don’t want to copy USA political system anymore but are quite happy with their own one. And yet, USA want to force their political system and their values upon the rest of the world, including Russia. So, Russia and the other countries, who don’t want American values to be forced upon them, are determined to defend their own values and their own national interests.
30 years ago, the border between US empire and Russia shifted eastward, but it doesn’t mean it can’t shift westward in the future. US did put themselves in a weak position. Instead of carrying on with the peaceful competition, they started a military conflict.
They wanted really European type social-economics, what they got was neoliberal Reaganomics.
That is true for Americans at home too. The working middle-class in the Western world is losing and shrinking.
The sanction can bring down the whole global economy, making all of us the losers including the oligarchs.
As long as oligarchs are continuing to be the oligarchs and controlling their governments, they are okay.
In the early 1950s the Soviets actually offered German reunification on condition that Germany would become neutral like Austria. That was not acceptable to Western powers because they wanted to keep Germany as a vassal state. Gorbachev should never have agreed to German re-unification unless Germany become neutral. Integrating East Germany into Nato was the beginning of the slippery slope that led us right to the Ukraine war.
Since the US has become the sole remaining superpower 30 years ago, it has turned into a rogue superpower arbitrarily invading countries and toppling foreign governments because there was no other power to put a check on US expansionism. That period has come to an end in 2015, when Russia decided to back it’s ally in Syria. Russia is now completing the process of terminating the US’s monopolar moment with the war in Ukraine.
The US/West has used liberal democracy and the neoliberal economic model as an ideological basis for imperialist expansion like powers in the past would use religion to serve as pretext for imperial expansion, as for example during the crusades. In his essay “The End of History” Francis Fukuyama posits that liberal democracy and neoliberal market principles are the final stage of human development, which sooner or later all countries would accept. Thus, attributing “universal validity” to these so-called Western values, Fukuyama paved the way for Western interventionists to impose their values on all other people, who according to their belief would sooner or later accept these values anyways.
After the spectacular failure of Western interventionism during the last 2 decades, it came a bit of a surprise to me that they would get into the intervention in Ukraine only a few months after the debacle in Kabul. It seems that some people never learn.
Biden met with Zelensky soon after he was inaugurated, he knew all about the NATO military arming, training and funding and military exercises with Ukrainians including Azov neo-Nazis, not a NATO member but sharing a border with Russia and the preparations getting ready for Regime Change in Russia.
What they call now “neo-liberal” is not liberal at all. The liberalism is about the individual liberties: freedom of speech, freedom to practice whatever religion one belongs to etc. The liberals would never persecute Assange and would never support Nazi ideology.
I do agree that the conflict between American oligarchy and the states which are based upon the traditional values is religious. Actually the “new western values” are denying the old values upon which Christianity and Islam are based. And what is the most important, the “new western values” are based upon the lies and the base animal instincts. Thats why, I think, it is correct to call this new religion, based upon the “new western values”, Satanism.
In the West, we basically have two different forms of legal system (and many national variants thereof). The Anglo-Saxon world uses “Common Law” based on case law, while continental Europe (including Russia) uses “Civil Law”. Common Law recognizes the supremacy of the private (especially private capital), while Civil Law recognizes the supremacy of the State. Thus, in continental Europe, the corporations, no matter how powerful, have to submit to the interest of the State of the public good, while in the Anglo-Saxon world, the corporations use the State to their own advantage. Notice that most tax havens use Common Law. Notice also that, after Yeltsin allowed the oligarchs to plunder Russia under the neoliberal rules imposed by the US, Putin removed the oligarchs from power. Now they are allowed to make money because Putin doesn’t want to return to the Soviet-style command economy, but ultimately they have to serve the interest of the State.
The power of the corporations in the Anglo-Saxon world goes back to such institutions as the East India Company, which used the British navy to serve its commercial interests. Neoliberal ideas have spread from the Anglo-Saxon world to continental Europe because the British and the American empires have dominated world trade for centuries. But Europe still to degree has maintained its own traditions. Thus, liberalism in the Anglo-Saxon world always was closely related to the protection of private property and the free market. The right of the individual to exploit nature in Western society contrasts with collective type societies in Asia, in which the interest of society are more important the individual rights.
I wouldn’t call it Satanism, but the belief in the universal validity of so-called Western values today serves as a ruling ideology for imperialist expansion like the missionary drive of the monotheist religions used to serve as motive for imperialist expansion in the past.
When a narrow group of the individuals or, sometimes, one individual like Napoleon, see their chance to take under their own control the whole planet, they do it. The power of American financial system, supported by the most powerful military might (at least they believed in this) gives American financial elite a real chance to dominate the planet. They believe in such a possibility, and they will struggle to achieve this goal. That is clear. The idea of the full spectrum dominance would be abandoned only when the rulers of US themselves realize that it is impossible.
In older times, the religion was used for the same purpose. In 16th century, as we know, Catholic Vatican controlled all Europe, education and finance too. The richest family at the time was Medici; they owned the biggest bank and also their family produced 4 Popes in 16th-17th centuries when the power of Vatican was greatest.
So, the difference is not great. The independent states in northern part of Europe were created for the purpose to protect themselves from Vatican. First of all, to protect their own business from Vatican oligarchy. In the end it is all about the power and the money.
You are so right, they needed the bulwark that is what saved Germany, now they are stupid and arrogant and don’t ask what the world will be for the USA without Europe. They will have no friends left, maybe Israel and Canada, maybe.
That was the reason behind both WW, now is the third chance to destroy Germany and with it Europe completely.
Russia has one foot in Asia already the second foot is right behind it.
They clearly felt them “reliable enough” to accept the role of patsy for the false flag that a “senior intelligence official” fed James LaPorta; and, as clearly they were wrong. Let’s hope Poland is now disabused of the benefit of any allying with Washington/Israel.
To put his bluntly, the Poles hate the Germans, although perhaps not as much, at the moment, as they hate Russians. Not all Poles, of course, but . . .
Polish negative feelings toward Russia and Germany are cultivated by Anglo-Saxon oligarchy and also by Vatican.
So much hate is always created by deliberate official government manipulation. People do get along for the most part, there is no hate between Germans and the French anymore, it stopped when the governments decided to stop it.
Take the Americans and the Russians, to hate Russians American people had to be manipulated to make the Americans pay for the war in Ukraine for the war profiteers to make money.
Of course, it is a deliberate manipulation. By the means of the education and the media.
Agree. It’s a love hate relationship. Most the hate goes towards the old far right Germans.
The younger generations get alone but still feel the pain of history.
There are now many German Polish families so future generations will be able to further strengthen relationships.
The reparations and other issues are being discussed in a “friendly” manner.
The Poles hate everyone it seems. Except America of course. “Thank you USA!”
Well, maybe not Lithuania. Perhaps they can collaborate on annexation of Galicia and work toward reestablishing the empire. 😏
Poland wants to start a war with Russia. That is outside NATO, outside the Article 5 mutual “defense” against attack.
They want to attack Russia? Let them go. Then watch them become the next Ukraine.
Well technically they wanted Germany to start it – not surprisingly the Germans rejected the idea.
It’s not that they want to start a war with Russia. It’s that they are not going to let Russia get away without pushback with its expansionism ambitions because if Ukraine falls, Russia will do it again elsewhere, well, perhaps in 20 years when their sh!t army gets reformed
Get real, there are the polish war profiteers in the background wanting to make money and are willing to sacrifice Poland and the people.
The greedy oligarchs are everywhere, ours are called plutocrats.
Their GREED is the common denominator.
History does nothing if not repeat itself…
…especially when you forget it…repeatedly.
They would end up partitioned again between Russia and Germany.
“The Polish rejection of the German offer highlights the tensions between the two NATO members.” That’s nothing. If a 1.3 trillion euro demand for reparation from Germany didn’t highlight the tensions, then this wouldn’t.
According to the Hague Convention that determines what non-belligerents can and cannot do to remain non-belligerents, NATO countries are already belligerents.
USA/NATO started it if we are honest about it. W. Bush started it in 2008, Obama/Biden continued it, so did Trump just not enthusiastically as Biden, but Biden’s son had made good money in the process.
Actually, Clinton started it in the 90’s.
Scholz has a hard time, the USA order him to do one thing, the Ukrainians demand more weapons and Poland tells them what weapons to provide the Ukrainians.
Germany is the cow to be milked, just not much milk left after all the refugees get to the deindustrialized country. Germany is already picked to the bone, only a skeleton left.
After Merkel, Scholz is a very bitter disappointment indeed. The man appears with every situation to be completely in over his head.
I would like to have seen how Merkel would have conducted German policy in the lead up to February 2022. With her, we would at least have had someone who neither hated nor feared the Russian side.
I agree, Germany used to have outstanding statesmen after the war, even then, the USA controlled the nation, they never stopped being the occupier.
Now they raised the curtain and we can see,
the USA is still BESATZUNGSMACHT,
not just Germany, the whole of Europe, the EU and NATO.
The government serves the USA not the German people. They are as corrupt as all the other developing nations regime changes. These people are not stupid but very rich and could anyone imagine a more stupid FM than Annalena? They had a Secretary of State Genscher, Chancellors like Adenauer, Schmidt, Brandt, Schroeder, Kohl, all real statesmen, now they have garbage. .
Don’t pretend NATO is not involved.
It was the US coup in 2014 that lead to this SMO, Ukraine is not a sovereign country its a Nazi infested US vassal.
When for 8 years you supply weapons and train hundreds of thousands of troops on a countries border, its a provocation.
When you run bioweapons labs and threaten nuclear destruction its a provocation. When you place literal Nazi’s in power and free them to be as violent and brutal against you as they can, its a provocation.
When you build massive military fortifications on a countries border and attempt to ethnically cleanse an entire region of people, its a provocation. When you indiscriminately shell the civilian populations in these regions its a provocation.
When you illegally sanction them to destroy their economy its a provocation. When you blow up their pipelines its a provocation.
When you bring your ISIS proxies from ME to kill them its a provocation.
I can go on and on, but when you do these things the chances are you will end up in a war. The US knew this but they did it anyway.
The US wanted this war, it is Biden’s war now. He could have avoided it if he had wanted to.
Take the missiles, prepare for WWIII! Remember what Biden’s State Dep spokesman Ned Price said:
“This is a war that is in many ways bigger than Russia, it’s bigger than Ukraine.”
So you have no right to think about your country’s interests. After all, “this war is ultimately about LGBTQ rights!” Russia dares stand up against the U.S. Left’s cultural Marxism by banning the brainwashing of children into becoming playthings to adult men. They criticize the flood of “refugee” immigrants to the West, which is the only way socialist parties win elections in the last three decades. They also dare support the pro-Palestinian Syria and Iran. That means they oppose both Cultural Marxism for the West and fervent nationalism for Israel, the twin agenda. They must be destroyed! The war is bigger than Ukraine.
In a roundabout way we are somewhat back to 1936. At that time France had suggested the formation of a “Cordon Sanitaire” against the Soviet Union. Poland was on the forefront and Chamberlain hoped that Hitler Germany would be Poland’s backstop.
Today the idea is a “Cordon Sanitaire” against Putin with Ukraine on the forefront and Biden/NATO hoping that Poland and Germany will be Ukraine’s backstop. Both seem to be reluctant.
Not sure I understand what you are proposing, but the idea that Poland and Germany would be of the same mind regarding the SMO in Ukraine seems at odds with what I’m seeing – so just what is it that you are proposing that Poland is only reluctantly backing?
As it has every year since 2012, on Friday, November 4, the Russian Federation submitted a draft resolution before the United Nations (UN) General Assembly against the glorification of Nazism.
This resolution was adopted by a majority of countries (105 votes in favor, 52 against and 15 abstentions) during the 77th session of the UN General Assembly’s Committee on Social, Humanitarian and Cultural Issues, commonly known as the “Third Committee.”
52 ‘No’ votes: Albania, Andorra, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Cyprus, Czechia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Kiribati, Latvia, Liberia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Mali, Malta, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Monaco, Montenegro, Netherlands, New Zealand, North Macedonia, Norway, Papua New Guinea, Poland, Portugal, Republic of Moldova, Romania, San Marino, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Ukraine, United Kingdom, and United States.
This is a major jump from the previous highs of 4 ‘No’ votes, in
2013 — Canada, Kiribati, Palau, United States;
2014 — Canada, Palau, Ukraine, United States;
2015 — Canada, Palau, Ukraine, United States.
The United States is the only country that has consistently voted ‘No’ every year since 2012. Ukraine has consistently voted ‘No’ since 2014.
Patriot Missiles don’t work, so it doesn’t matter.
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