Ukraine is at odds with its Western backers over the missile that landed in Poland and killed two people. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Wednesday that he’s confident the missile didn’t come from his country even after NATO, Poland, and the US said it was likely fired by Ukrainian air defenses.
“I have no doubt that it was not our rocket,” Zelensky told reporters, adding that his assessment was based on reports from his military commanders. “I believe that it was a Russian missile based on the credibility of the reports of the military,” he said.
Zelensky also called for Ukraine to be allowed to conduct its own investigation. “Can we not say the final conclusions? Do we have the right to be in the investigation team? Of course,” he said.
Speaking to the Financial Times, a diplomat from a NATO country expressed frustration in response to Zelensky’s comments. “This is getting ridiculous. The Ukrainians are destroying [our] confidence in them. Nobody is blaming Ukraine and they are openly lying. This is more destructive than the missile,” the diplomat said.
When news of the missile hitting Poland first broke, Zelensky and his top advisors framed the incident as a deliberate Russian attack on a NATO member, and implied that the military alliance should take action. Any NATO strikes on Russia would mean World War III, which could quickly spiral into nuclear war.
Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba even said the idea that a Ukrainian missile hit Poland was a “conspiracy theory” being spread by Russia. “Russia now promotes a conspiracy theory that it was allegedly a missile of Ukrainian air defense that fell on the Polish theory. Which is not true. No one should buy Russian propaganda or amplify its messages,” he wrote on Twitter on Tuesday.
But the following day, NATO confirmed that it was likely a Ukrainian missile. “Our preliminary analysis suggests that the incident was likely caused by a Ukrainian air defense missile fired to defend Ukrainian territory against Russian cruise missile attacks,” NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said.
Poland reached a similar conclusion, and the US said it hadn’t seen any evidence to contradict that it was a Ukrainian missile. The missile landed in Poland as Russia was launching massive strikes across Ukraine targeting infrastructure. While they recognize it was a Ukrainian missile, NATO and the US say that Russia “bears ultimate responsibility,” but there’s no sign there will be an escalation, and Stoltenberg said he sees no threats from Russia.
Poland was considering calling consultations with NATO allies on the incident under Article 4, but Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said that probably won’t be necessary. “Most of the evidence that we have collected so far shows that there will probably be no need to invoke Article 4 this time,” he said.
It is more likely that the missile was Ukrainian than Russian. Russia has no motive to attack a farming village in Poland. Likewise if Ukraine wanted to plant a false flag, they would probably strike a more strategic target. But it would be stupid for Ukraine to attack Poland, their staunchest supporter in NATO. We may never know all the facts. But the most likely explanation is that a Ukrainian missile went off course and landed in a rural area near the border.
The hopeful news is that the reaction of the US and NATO countries indicates that they don’t want to escalate to an open war between NATO and Russia, at least not at this time.
So, why is Zelensky lying?
He wants more money to siphon off to his bank in Chile, or his villa in Italy.
Zelensky uses the media to drum up foreign support. Spectacular accusations, both real and fictitious, no matter how one-sided, serve that purpose. This one fell short because he tried to finesse NATO into doing something they don’t want to do, and because the decision-makers know better than to take him too seriously.
But, there’s also the fact that a large contingent of the Washington Deep State want to get it on with Russia, kinda the prelim for the big bout with Beijing, that has to be got over, the logical next step for any serious neocon. They and Z believe the whizz-bang robot weapons in the US arsenal could deliver a knock-out.
Yes, but why is he insisting on the fairy tale after it has been exposed as such? Usually, the Kiev regime either lets the BS die a natural death, and even, occasionally, as with the “Ghost of Kiev” nonsense, actually owns up to the con, but has some kind of excuse for it. Here, the excuse has already been agreed upon by NATO, Poland, the MSM, etc. IE that Russia is ultimately “to blame” even though the missile was Ukie. And yet, Z is still going on and on about how the missile was Russian. Again, who does he think he’s fooling? Biden, Poland, and NATO say it was not. Nobody believes him, not even the most crazy pro Ukie cheerleaders.
I disagree , the missiles where deliberately targeted to fall where they did to cause as little damage as possible , altho 2 people where killed , the plan was to get a knee jerk reaction from the US luckily it failed .
Of course we don’t know all the facts. You can’t trust anything any government says about military matters, especially in time of war. But I still think the most likely explanation is a stray Ukrainian missile. Cui bono? Yes, Ukraine has a motive to get NATO to invoke Article 5. But I doubt the Ukrainians would plant a false flag killing Polish citizens without Poland being in on it. The Poles are genuinely pissed off about the attack and I don’t think Ukraine would risk alienating their strongest supporter n NATO. I could be wrong, but if the Poles are treating the incident as an accident, that is what it probably was.
The fact that a missile hit in Poland is not nearly as important as the fact that a NATO diplomat said that Ukraine is openly lying. This is the first time I’ve witnessed NATO telling Ukraine that there are limits to what it can announce.
And why is Zelensky doing it? He must know that he is not fooling anyone. Poland says Russia didn’t do it. That, by itself, is pretty telling. And NATO as a whole, and Biden, are saying the same thing. So, what’s Z’s play here?
“Play”? As in piano?
The stories if him on drug, combined with a sense of euphoria that a missile fell in Polish territory — made him giddy. He knows in the long run he cannot win, and HAS to find tjevway to get NATO involved. He is unhinged and dangerous — actually thought that Oolsnd was going to lie for him,
This could be actually worse. US must know that Russia is telling the truth — that there were no military activity by Russia at that lication. US can monitor Russian Kaliber missiles fired from Black Sea.
And this means that someone by mistake or on purpose fired that missile from S-300, a ststem Ukraine kept since it was part of Soviet Union. Russian missiles and S-300 missiles are two very different things.
Also, if indeed they used to to send a barrage of missiles to intercept Russian incoming from Southeast – radar would see them from about 100 miles out, and track them for a while before firing, The unexploded is most likely falling in the southeast direction. Zelenski has much explaining to do.
The problem is — next time it can be worse. Zelenski cannot negotiate -/ he has no skills. Acting can take him only so far,
I have to say this makes the most sense. Zelensky IS becoming unhinged, for whatever reason (drugs, euphoria, delusions, desperation, who knows).
Coke, bro. Coke
As someone who snorted on a very few occasions as a young woman, I can assure anyone who hasn’t done so how silly one gets when one indulges.
I wish I had recordings of those conversations 🙄
There needs to be a missile flying for an air-defense to try to intercept it. Missile need to fly over Polish territory for this “accident” theory to be true. Russian Kalibrs fly from east (and south-east) to west so any missile trying to intercept them would fly east.
The only logical conclusion, it was deliberate attack on Poland.
Ukraine has many missiles from the soviet/ Russian allies era, including the Buk II missile system that shot down MH17….. There were 4 air regiments of the Buk II system in Ukraine’s order of battle at that time, some 1000 plus missiles! Ukraine’s Air traffic control routed that aircraft over an area that was know to be actively shooting at Aircraft at lower altitudes. Now be clear I do not trust any of the actors in this scenario, Not Russia Not Ukraine not the so called rebels, nor NATO each has their own little criminal enterprise to protect!!
Yes, but Russia lacks motive here, no?
“The stories if him on drug, combined with a sense of euphoria that a missile fell in Polish territory — made him giddy.”
‘Eh, a missile hit Pola-?Spread da news! The Russkies are bombin’ Poland! THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!‘
And two people died. And a rather stupid operation, There were no Russian missiles in that area at the time S-300 fired a single missile in north-westenly direction. All Russian missiles are coming from Black Sea, south-easternly direction.
It is of course pissible to be a mistake, as only one was fired, an unusual set ip for S-300, a Soviet era system.
Zelenski just does not know when to stop.
Any thing make him giddy!
Remember early in the conflict that a memorial to the Jews in WW2 in Kiev was supposedly hit by Russia on purpose and he called on all Jews worldwide to condemn this attack – it was never hit! It was all a hoax as an independent reporter report who videoed that the monument was untouched. So this big headline news varnished down the memory hole.
We have to ask how many of these ‘attacks on civilian homes’ in Kiev are not the result of Ukrainian defense rockets going wrong.
Zelenski is mere puppet of the Pentagon and only now they see slowly that he is a war monger, a liar and a comedian.
Love your posts.
Zelensky knows that he can say anything with no consequences.
When S-300 anti-missile rockets miss, land and damage buildings, Zelensky’s henchmen take pictures of it and claim it’s the Russians who bombed the buildings.
Zelensky claimed that Russia shelled a Turkish-built mosque in Mariupol with zero consequences for that lie.
Zelensky claimed that Russia shelled a WWII memorial to dead civilians with zero consequences for that lie.
Zelensky can have a Greek nazist do his on-screen introduction to the Greek parliament and it’s immediately swept under the rug.
Zelensky can shell a nuclear power plant, and the media say it’s Russia. When UN inspectors say it was Ukraine, the media bury it.
Zelensky’s henchmen packed civilians into the theater in Mariupol where Azov had its headquarters in the basement, hoping they’d be hit, and no one said anything. They placed their artillery next to bomb shelters, hoping the shelters would be hit, and no one said anything.
Zelensky’s conscripts set up camp in an empty school or hospital, and when the Russians fire at their positions, they declare “Russia is firing at schools and hospitals!” There are no consequences.
Yes, but in all those instances, he did not have the USA, Poland, NATO and the western MSM saying it wasn’t true. Just the opposite. I agree there won’t be consequences for Zelensky for persisting in this particular lie. But I don’t see the upside, either.
“why is Zelensky doing it? He must know that he is not fooling anyone…So, what’s Z’s play here?”
I’ll tell ya what it is, philadelphia – this is a two-step to make Ukraine’s military the fall guy for what is Zelensky’s latest, escalation-crazed attempt to drag NATO into WWIII:
‘I have complete faith in my military’s report’ will become ‘I (rightfully) had complete faith in my military.’
i.e., ‘It was the military’s error, and all I did was virtuously believe in my guys…And how could they, or I, believe otherwise, since Ukraine was excluded from the investigation site – a national insult! – forcing me to go on the dubious word of NATO, the US, and Poland.’
Is that going to fool anyone? That might explain the initial lie, but once Poland, NATO, and Biden said “no,” why would he still rely on his own military guys, even if he did in the first instance? No one thinks that Poland, NATO and the US military are less competent than the Ukrainian military, in general, and when it comes to this particular “investigation.”
heck, i dunno, sounded good when i wrote it – maybe he’ll blame it on being excluded – he’s certainly bitten the hand that feeds him a lot – on largely correct assumption that u.s. will cut him tons of slack since ukraine has its own useful function for u.s. foreign policy…including ukraine’s supposed privilege to negotiate as a u.s. excuse to prosecute a war it wants to go on…
…will this affect citizenry u.s. view of Z? who knows – has z’s lying on the missile even been covered by the mainstream press?
I’m sure most know that Zelensky is doing his best to draw NATO into the war and NATO is aware that Russia is no longer playing so unless you really want an escalation, you need to keep Zelensky in line unless you really want to start a shooting WW3
He is in line. Completely and totally subjugated. Volodimor cannot make a single move without explicit approval from the imperials.
He even looks like someone’s poodle.
He is trying to wag the dog!
One wonders why he wants his country turned into a vast crater by his attempts to initiate WWIII.
It’s not his country. Not his people. He is not an ethnic Ukrainian.
And nobody in Russia. Nobody sane anyway will ever think of a nuclear strike on Ukraine. They will make another Atlantic-Pacific canal in north America and wipe England from the map before attacking Ukraine.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/adda6508196173983e17372855cd5fc4ae5f4913a2bd23f0c690329f72297f7b.png
It is not Zelinsky we must keep in line.
It is our own warmongers, who are largely in charge in DC and our media outlets, and expanding this war as fast as they can.
Why not both?
I see him as more a tool than a principle, without any true agency of his own.
However, you are correct to the extent he is a real player in this.
Perhaps I underestimate this TV comic playing at being wartime President of the most radical extremist sort from the fever dreams of foreign neocons.
Right, the West fully backed him in claiming the Russians were shelling the Nuclear plant they occupied. The West even claimed Russia was fiendishly behind the 22 Us Defense Dept. bio-weapons labs in his country. They even suggested that it was Russia sabotaged its own Nordstrom 2 pipeline. It’s established fact that Washington is down for the most outrageous preposterous stretchers, so the only thing that differentiates this one is the “article 5”, … I guess?
Yes!!!! The heretofore. “golden Boy” with luxury real estate bonanza, might just be a “Junior Bubba Warbucks” guiding his country into the maw of death and dersruction for this cut off the billions in donations from the malvent originators of THIS effort to “Weaken Russia” ….. oblivious to how much it will weaken Ukraine & the copious Ukrainian blood that will be spilt. A ll for the greater glory of The American Empire and to ensure its “Full Spectrum Dominance” into perpetuity.
Speaking of missiles, just wanted to give a shout out to NASA on their successful launch.
As Bernie would say, “this is yuuuuge!
Whomever fired the missile, Eastern Europe tourism just went down the toilet.
So they are clutching at straws… What else is to be expected. What is their savior to be if not Nato? Such false hopes spring from hopeless situations. It is as if Zelenski is missing then part about the consequences from Russia, were NATO to come in on Ukraine’s side. Russia will want to end any NATO intervention quickly, and she certainly has the means. What will there be to restrain Russia from going really big, perhaps on some NATO backwater as a demonstration of what those NATO Gnomes can expect if they do not QUICKLY declair neutrality? Maybe its me that is deluded, but as far as I am concerned, when Doltenburg straight armed Russia’s attempt to negotiate a peaceful path out of this dangerous thicket Obama, Clinton, Nuland created mess, it was game on, no holds bared. The U.S. & NATO squandered their military dominance with The Great War on Terror. Russia and China built formidable deterrence while the West was DISTRACTED chasing Arabs for their Neocons. Hubris precedes a great fall, and the hubris in Washington is as thick as a London Fog!!
The problem with Z he was told by the usual suspects he could defeat Putin and reclaim Crimea ect ect and being the FOOL he is , he believed it . now he is between a rock and a hard place .
Christopher Miller, Financial Times Ukraine correspondent, on Twitter:
The missile that hit Poland did not come from a failed interception of a S300 defense system. Take a look at the crater, this is NOT a surface to air impact. They lie and they lie to cover up their lies.
I believe it was a false flag to trigger article 5 and take us to WW3. The fact that Zelenski knew nothing about it could imply that a foreign entity did it. US comes to mind.
Very doubtful that Ukraine would deliberately attack Poland, their staunchest supporter in NATO. It is obvious that the Poles were not part of a false flag operation and Ukraine would risk making an enemy of Poland. The target had no strategic value. Most likely explanation is an accident. Probably a Ukrainian missile strayed off course.
Ukraine have on several occasions staged false flag hits on their own population. Clearly on this occasion its a false flag that went wrong. With satellite data the US know exactly where the missiles came from and given the number of military persons in the know wouldn’t dare lying.
It could well of been a US HIMAR hit especially given the distance it travelled.
There is no possibility for a Ukrainian missile strike from West Ukraine aiming at Russian troops? They do not have missiles that can travel 500-800 km. Hence the BS story of the S300 failed interception.
That’s a good sign. Perhaps Ukrainian “ultra-nationalists” will finally take care of their task masters.
“Zelensky also called for Ukraine to be allowed to conduct its own investigation. “Can we not say the final conclusions? Do we have the right to be in the investigation team? Of course,” he said.”
I guess since this clown says he wants to be just like Israel, he must think the US would blindly listen to any internal investigation that exonerates Ukraine regardless of facts. You know, like Israel. Silly clown doesn’t understand that first you have to own congress.
Another Dog and Pony show from the TV actor and his clumsy crew.
“While they recognize it was a Ukrainian missile, NATO and the US say that Russia “bears ultimate responsibility” but there’s no sign there will be an escalation, and Stoltenberg said he sees no threats from Russia.”
This will be the next ‘go to’. No responsibility by NATO’s encroachment or 30 years of provocations from the west. Once again, history began on Feb 24th, 2022.
From another post on antiwar.com: https://thegrayzone.com/2022/11/15/blowback-italian-azov-tied-nazi-terror/
Now search for “Russian-built missile” in Google. You get a ton of media articles that simply say “a Russian-built missile” landed in Poland, without mentioning that it was fired by Ukraine.
(Ukraine often fires S-300 missiles that miss the target, which often land and damage buildings, and this is then photographed and blamed on Russia.)
Here’s the New York Times last evening, long after it had been established that the S-300-fired missile was from Ukraine:
Oh, be still o faint heart!
Zelensky lying???
This cokehead has been lying from day 1, trying to stir up war, atks on Russia, laundering money, etc, etc.
Will be waiting for buyden, blinken, and nod dleman to kick him to the curb, um to his mansions if he survives.
“Zelensky also called for Ukraine to be allowed to conduct its own investigation. ‘Can we not say the final conclusions? Do we have the right to be in the investigation team? Of course,’ he said.”
Sorry, lil’ Z. – grown ups only allowed. Too much at stake – can’t have yr Azov boys tagging up the wreck with “ZZ’s” to prove Russia must have fired it so it’s WWIII time.
This tactic was used in 2014 that killed 300 people and they got away with it. Not this time.
Right – and probably according to Zelesnky, the Poles started WWII by attacking Germany and the Soviet Union.
“Based on the CREDIBILITY of the reports of the military,” he said.
Ha, ha, ha, now, there is something to laugh at!
Zelinsky needs to drag NATO into this war.
He’s trying. He’ll do anything. He’d even attack NATO in a false flag. If this was not that, then that will come soon enough.
Remember the Tonkin Gulf Iincident and WMD in Iraq? There are many more too. So one more is a real danger.
Alexis Mercouris (from The Duran) notes on YouTube that the “Russia’s missile” claim started with Associated Press. And their proof was that “a senior anonymous official” in the Biden administration said it.
As Alexis points out, they keep doing this to attack Russia. “Anonymous official” lends credence because of the word “official,” it gives authority, when it is in fact no proof. And because the official is anonymous he doesn’t have to defend his statement when it is false. And he can do the same thing over again.
In fact, the media could use the same “senior anonymous official” every time.
And what is “senior” and “official” anyway? I remember when there was some big “story from inside the Trump administration” by an “anonymous top official”. The media were all over his article. Eventually he was exposed, and it was some mid-level guy in one of the departments.
From Moonofalabama:
A factual assessment:
OSINTtechnical @Osinttechnical – 19:41 UTC · Nov 15, 2022
The missile(s) that impacted Polish territory near the Ukrainian border very much looks like a 5V55K from the S-300.
The 5V55K is an old Soviet produced missile
(1978/82) for the S-300 air defense system that the Ukraine is using
against Russian cruise missiles. Its nominal range in air defense mode
is 75 kilometer. If it fails to hit its target the debris is likely to
fall at somewhat around that range. Przewodow in Poland (50.47099 lat,
23.93432 lon) where the missile landed, is some 70 kilom
https://www.moonofalabama.org/15i/polstrike-s.jpg
(click on image to make a tad larger)
I do not think there is any question as to the intent of the missile: it was ukrainian, fired north towards Poland,, out of the question that interception was the intent.
The hysteria that followed from some nato parties was extremely provocative and dangerous; the firing of this missile (and flight path) was monitored by nato surveillance systems no doubt almost immediately, what is going on here?
The motivation of zelensky is obvious but what about the other parties including most importantly the us warmongers in state.
“Ukraine At Odds With Western Backers Over Missile That Hit Poland A diplomat from a NATO country told Financial Times that Ukraine is ‘openly lying’ as Zelensky still denies a Ukrainian missile hit Poland”
Voldomort Zelensky has been lying to America and Europe since he took office.
From the shoot down of the Malaysian Airliner to atrocities against civilians in various towns Ukraine is always lying.
His government of Ukrainian criminals hired the Syrian “White Helmets” to coach Ukraine’s criminal fascists in creating false flag operations for Western media propaganda.
In addition, Ukraine has been waging the dog since 2014.
Ukraine’s news releases are all parodies at this point – they openly lie about pretty much everything, and much of the “free” media choose to parrot them. Why would you ever trust Nazi’s anyways.
“based on the credibility of the Ukrainian military” ….
He must have an incredible military.
“We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
…. attributed to republican Karl Rove who denied ever saying that
Italian police foil plot by Ukrainian neo Nazi Azov Battalion. Five members of the Ukrainian neo Nazi organisation “Order of Hagal” were arrested on Nov 15th while an additional member currently fighting in Ukraine with the Azov Battalion was being surveiled.
The four Nazi’s have been accused of plotting terrorists acts in Italy. The Ukrainian accomplice fighting with Azov Battalion in Ukraine had arranged for an explosion in a busy shopping center.
Italy had refused to fund and arm Ukraine due to its internal neo Nazi control of the government. This appears to be a response from the Neo Nazi controlled government as the Azov Battalion and Right Sector neo Nazi paramilitaries have been incorporated into the Ukrainian DOD.
Gonzalo Lira says thank god for 2 potato farmers in Poland. They took photo’s of the missile debris and impact site. This lead to the back down by NATO. Poland has now criminalised taking photo’s of missile crash sites.
Poland and Ukraine are desperate to start a war. Now remind me again who started WW1 and WW2. Ohhh that’s right Poland.
“Now remind me again who started WW1 and WW2. Ohhh that’s right Poland”
You forgot to specify “in my imagination.”
If I had to guess, all the NATO and Russian decision makers, including the Polish ones, know that Ukraine intentionally sent the missiles to Poland as an attempted false flag attempt.
Furthermore, no doubt the Russian decision makers communicated some terse intense threats should there be more.
I am seeing a different approach to Western decision makers based on just a few articles. It seems to be a step closer to it is time to end this farce.
Americans calling for the use of nukes seemed to have changed the debate. Many Americans called Russians (sub-human) orcs that fateful day. And nuclear annihilation is not all it is cracked up to be.