Ukrainian forces on Monday pushed further into the Kharkiv oblast as more Russian troops withdrew from the area and the northeastern counteroffensive continued to show success.
Ukrainian forces pushed all the way back to the Russian border in some areas of northern and northeastern Kharkiv. Vitaly Ganchev, a Russian-installed official in the region, said that Russia’s forces were outnumbered by eight to one, a sign that Moscow was caught off guard by the counteroffensive.
Ganchev also said that about 5,000 civilians fled the region into Russia’s Belgorod oblast, which borders Kharkiv. Russian officials reported that there was some shelling inside Russian territory and that the village of Logachevka in Belgorod was evacuated due to the attacks.
The Ukrainian advances have put more pressure on Russian President Vladimir Putin to escalate the war, which he has framed as a limited “special military operation.” On Sunday, Ukraine reported power outages in several eastern regions as a result of Russian strikes on electricity infrastructure, signaling a potential escalation in the war.
Russia has avoided carrying out a so-called “strategic bombing campaign” in Ukraine, a tactic the US and its allies often employ that involves massive airstrikes on civilian infrastructure to cripple a country’s transportation and power grids.
The Kremlin on Monday downplayed Ukraine’s success on the battlefield and insisted Russia would still achieve its goals in the war. “The special military operation continues. And it will continue until the goals that were originally set are achieved,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said when asked about the counteroffensive.
Putin delivered remarks on Monday, but they were focused on how Russia has handled the US-led sanctions campaign. “The economic blitzkrieg tactics, the onslaught they were counting on, did not work – this is already obvious to everyone, and to them too,” he said.
The official name for Switzerland is Schweitz. So why was it necessary to change Charkov/Kharkov to Kharkiv? Because Zelenskiy demands it? This is a weird kind of infection.
You just showed your ignorance on International Relations and on this region for that matter. You should Thank @RedDouglas:disqus for the assist.
Because when a language uses an entirely different alphabet, there are usually numerous ways to spell things when you transcribe it other ways. Same reason that there are about 20 different spellings of Gaddafi — none of them are wrong, they’re just different ways of transcribing from Arabic.
I can’t tell whether the Ukrainians will hold the territory they have liberated. But the effectiveness of the Ukrainian offensive signals the defeat of the Russian invasion. The Ukrainians are proving that they are a bona fide nation. Asymmetric wars of national resistance are determine by hearts and minds, not force of arms or dollars and cents. By that measure the Russians have lost the war. The only relevant question is question is how long will it take Russia to find a leadership capable of recognizing the need to withdraw from Ukraine.
Russia’s economy appears very intact though, and they still hold large areas of territory, and they have the ability to cut off electricity & gas for all of Ukraine this winter that would push a massive refugee crisis on Europe in the middle of an economic recession & energy crisis. Furthermore, Russia’s only used a small part of its military and very much has the capacity to escalate.
Economy intact and military still strong?
Yeah, right. I will tell you a story in about 3 months.
Julio still angry because the “big push to take Kherson!” resulted in 4,000 dead Ukies and many times more wounded, a complete disaster.
But hey, Russia moved out of an area with no industries in order to gather more forces for a bigger battle in western Donbass. “Russia defeated! Forget Kherson and 300-500 dead Ukrainian soldiers every day!”
I’m not angry, why would I be? I’m having a beer right now and having a good time.
I’m sure Ukraine took casualties but 4K is a desperate number surely reported by your boys up in the Kremlin.
But don’t forget the Orcs are taking heavy casualties too.
The real disaster will be when Ukraine retakes Kherson. At which point the excuses will rain here within the RED TEAM.
When they invaded the “experts” were saying the Russian economy would collapse within a week. What’re you expecting to happen in the next 3 months?
Show me one, only one Expert that said that.
What the collective said, was that it was going to work but that it would take time.
In 3 months, let’s reconvene here and share data.
The mass media was full of stuff saying the Russian army and/or the Russian army’s collapse was imminent in the first week of the invasion, that Ukraine only had to fight on for another week and Russia would be forced to withdraw. I presume it came from propagandists rather than experts, but that’s the nature of the mass media and “fact checkers”, they don’t differentiate.
Everything you say was true of the US during the Vietnam war. None of it mattered because the Vietnamese retained their will to resist. They demonstrated that in the Tet offensive just as the Ukrainians are demonstrating their will to resist the Russian invasion in their current offensive and the Ukrainian military successes leading up to it. Nixon escalated in Vietnam. By every tactical and strategic measure the US won the war. The US had 58,000 casualties. The North Vietnamese army and the VC had an estimated one million casualties plus about a million civilian casualties in the most horrific bombing campaign since the terror bombings of Dresden, Hamburg and Hiroshima. But in the end the Vietnamese won because they continued to fight back.
The Russians can prevail in battle whenever they can concentrate force at a given time and place. But their enemy is the Ukrainian nation and every Russian success builds the resistance that will eventually overcome the Russian will to subdue another country.
No matter who wins the battle of Khartiv, the Russians have lost the war and will eventually withdraw from the land bridge and possibly from the Donbas in defeat.
The flaw in the comparison is that before the Vietnam war, the average American didn’t know Vietnam even existed. Americans didn’t really care about Vietnam, the war was sold as a way to stop communism. Unluckily for Ukraine, their country is very much central to Russian history and mythology – the Kievan Rus being an origin story of the Russian Empire Nixon could withdraw without any serious loss of popularity. The same is not true of Putin. I think both southern and eastern Ukraine are very much in Russia’s sights and they might well have the will to take and hold them permanently.
I agree. Ukraine and Russia are more like Ireland and England where the Irish fought for 900 years to get their freedom. To this day most Irish still speak English and very few know Gaelic. Doesn’t make the Irish loyal to England.
Ukrainians have resented Russian chauvinism for nearly as long as the Irish. Putin’s invasion is strenghtening the Ukrainian national identity. It is adversity, not ethnicity that creates nations. Ukraine is rising.
I think it’s closer to England and Scotland. Ireland isn’t central to England’s origin myths. Scotland is – the kings of Scotland became kings of the United Kingdom. There’s a natural barrier between England and Ireland, the sea, but there is no natural barrier between England and Scotland. There is also a Scottish independence movement, but it is very questionable whether England will ever let Scotland go in practice.
If Scotland votes for independence England would never fight a war to keep Scotland. They learned their lesson in Ireland and India. But Russian chauvinists like Putin don’t recognize Ukraine’s right to self determination nor do double alpha males who rise to leadership in imperial states appreciate the limits of coercive power.
I don’t think the UK government will allow another referendum on independence, I think they will use force to prevent one taking place – the same way the Spanish government forcefully prevented the 2017 Catalan referendum.
Most countries in the would don’t allow their regions to become independent – Ukraine itself wouldn’t allow Crimea to secede, and had been violently attacking the Donbas republics for the last 8 years to prevent them from seceding.
Wrong, dude. I have friends in Ireland whom I visit, and IRISH GAELIC is a required subject for schoolchildren.
Irish is the native language of most of those residing in western Ireland. There are very few road signs, etc. in English.
Ireland’s census found that that 1.7% of Irish speak Irish at home and about 10 percent speak it weekly or daily.
It is a required subject, but the Irish folks I know say that very few people speak in any practical way. There’s even a funny skit about it from an Irish comedy team. https://youtu.be/ydSNgr97gSY
Ukraine isn’t Vietnam. Aside from a small group of fanatical ultra-nationalists, most Ukrainians want to live and not spill their blood for what is a very pointless war that could have easily been prevented if outside powers hadn’t pushed Ukraine into it.
The Ukrainian officers are said to lead from behind. In other words, soldiers unwilling to fight get a bullet in the back. Fear is a motivation too, but it’s not a great way for “winning hearts and minds.” Many Ukrainians move into the Russian-held territory if they get a chance to cross the frontline on the green border.
The Azov network of ultra-nationalists, aka Nazis, has maneuvered into key positions in the security forces via its Centuria organization, from where the extremists control the army.
“their enemy is the Ukrainian nation”
You mean the nation where the majority opposed the 2014 coup? The “will to resist” – you mean they force people to be conscripts, you call that “will”? They cut off the bank accounts and assets of anyone who criticizes the war, without a trial. Zelensky has banned all opposition parties and TV media and newspapers. You call that “a will”? It’s a dictatorship forcing tens of thousands to die.
And all you got was one area left by the Russians. Practically no casualties, no equipment left behind despite a false Ukie video that is actually from months ago. A disastrous failed push to take Kherson where the Ukrainians were massacred. Russia has moved its forces from up north to Donbass, and you think that means “Russia is defeated”.
Reminds me of the soccer game where Argentina scored 8 goals, and Brazil only 1. You obsess over that one goal.
If you’re not going to let go of your Vietnam analogy try turning it around and seeing Ukraine as like South Vietnam with shaky politics and demographics and massive US backing against an enemy who isn’t going to surrender, except the enemy in this case actually has four times as many people and overwhelming firepower. Also watch “Hearts and Minds”, though not over dinner.
Well except the Ukrainians are doing the fighting the US is sitting this one out with the exception maybe of the odd phone call in the guess where the ammo dump is game.
You left out training, logistics, and tens of billions in weapons and cash, not to mention massive sanctions, a rabid culture war, and I expect some actual shooting. Except for all that the US is “sitting this one out”, as you say. And we’ll see what happens when Ukraine runs out of bodies.
I bet Russia breaks first. I agree we are giving essentially infinite financial and material support just not bodies. JB has done a very nicely calibrated job of keeping us in it enough to win it but out of it.
If the two sides are US/EU/NATO/Ukraine and Russia, neither side is likely to “break.”
The Russian empire will get some of what it wants — LPR, DPR, and a land corridor to Crimea, not to mention the solidification of an eastern trade bloc that makes it less reliant on sanctions-happy customers.
The US/EU/NATO empire, including Ukraine, will get some of what it wants — an expanded NATO both de jure (Finland and Sweden) and de facto (Ukraine), some captured European energy markets, etc.
Both sides will pay a price for their gains, and the decline of both empires will be accelerated somewhat. How much the acceleration will affect either side, it’s hard to predict.
One area in which both sides “lose” is that the Russian empire has outed itself as, aside from its nukes, a third-rate military power. It won’t be able to throw its weight around as much after this. And as a result, the NATO/EU states will dial back their plans to throw a lot more money at US “defense” contractors for weapons they now understand they don’t need to take on the weak sister to their east.
There will be SOME spending to replenish what they’re sending to Ukraine, but not the bonanza that they were expecting. From what I can tell, the Russian fiasco was as unexpected in DC and Brussels as it was in Moscow.
Russia already broke. Releasing jail prisoners and asking African countries, Syria and North Korea for soldiers.
UKr side has foreigners fighting for them too. I suspect in the next few days Kherson surrenders and that will be awkward for the Russophiles to explain.
When Ukraine runs out of bodies, they’ll be more Ukrainians lined up to defend their land against Russian soldier forced to fight for Putin’s ego war. If they still need more, they’ll start a Jail Prisoner Release Program (fight for freedom deal). But the latter is really the last resort, when you don’t have anything else to throw to the frontlines.
Oh, wait, that’s what Russia is doing. Hm, is it that they ran out of bodies first?
Earth to John!
The US is “sitting this one out”? 😆
We are spending less than half of what we spent every single year in Afghanistan. We can afford it, don’t you worry.
NO. We CANNOT afford it, not when Jackson , Mississippi does not have drinkable water.
Not when people cannot afford to purchase lifesaving medications.
Not when hundreds of thousands have no place to call home.
Not when are bridges and roads are dangerously deteriorating.
Not when seniors are forced to scrape by on insufficient Social Security payments.
Not when inflation is at record highs.
I want MY taxpayer dollars to assist THESE situations, not a prick piano player nor IsraHell.
Those problems existed all through the era when we dropped 6 trillion dollars on the middle east. Terrible as it is we see better value in dead Russians than in clean drinking water for poor Blacks
Damn, trying really hard to belittle our involvement there John. An “odd phone call”. Good one.
and $$$ and equipment and training.
First, the Kharkiv thrust by the Ukrainians is a propaganda boost but no significant military victory. The Russians withdrew from non-vital territory, in an orderly manner, in the face of a locally superior Ukrainian force, without significant losses in material and personnel, while degrading the advancing Ukrainian force with air power.
As to your Vietnam/Ukraine comparison: There is limited validity comparing Viet Nam to Ukraine. Viet Nam had a long national history and homogenous culture. Ukraine has no long history as a country and no coherent national identity. Ukraine is/was a house divided, with the two halves — eastern Ukraine and western Ukraine in conflict.
When the Russian-inflicted “pain dial” has reached the critical point, US/UK/EU will fracture, Kiev will surrender, and the artificial “country” Ukraine will be carved up into its parts. Hungary, Poland, and Romania will get the ethnically Hungarian, Polish, and Romanian parts. Russia will get the Russian parts. And Galicia will remain as the rump and occupied Banderista Ukraine.
Or perhaps the desperate, Neocons, incapable of accepting defeat, will cross the line into nuclear annihilation.
Interesting times.
It is but a flesh wound!
The proper military analogy is not USA vs Vietnam , but rather USA vs CSA in the American civil war. Close geographic proximity, similar military traditions, similar discrepancy in starting military power. The BIG difference, which so far seems decisive, is foreign support for Ukraine compared to no support of the Confederacy by Europe. Remember that the North struggled early on in subduing the South. But eventually won a bloody war of attrition.
Let’s hope the Ukraine-Russia war has a much shorter duration and a different ending.
A very interesting analogy. The American Civil War was determined by hearts and minds. At first the Confederates were much more motivated than the numerically superior and better armed and better supplied Union troops. Despite their advantages, the Union was losing until General David Hunter armed the slaves. When they saw his success other Union General’s followed Hunter’s example. Eventually the highly motivated 200,000 Black troops, ostly former slaves, turned the tide of the war against their masters. The Union was also helped by a massive work stoppage, tantamount to a general strike, by the slaves remaining on the plantations that ruined the Southern plantation economy as much as Sherman’s raid.
Are you dresming? The areas in question are populated by Russiansceho had to flee as the crazies are jnown for brutality tiwards civilians. This blitzkrieg was accomplished the same way others were — throw soldiers into artillery and have them invhigh enough numbers to move forward. There is no Ukrainian nation — the fantasy reoeated over and over and over,
Russia knew weeks ago of the plans, and chose not to reinforce. How do we know that? Because two weeks ago civilians were told to evacuate to prepared shelters. Why they chose not to reinforce? Who knows.
But to be so easily lledvto believe that there is a united Ukraine — seriously. It is divided by natuinalities, religion and differing loyalties. This Humpty Dumpty will not be easily put back together again.
If the Russians knew the counterattack was coming two weeks ago why did they leave the soldiers there to be slaughtered , captured and routed by the Ukrainians? Your theory makes no sense.
Putin lovers here are on full damage control.
I put another candle in front of my Putin poster.
It’s your boy. You should.
Russian military doesn’t seem to care that much about its soldiers. I guess in WW2 they could get away with it now not so much.
Agree, and there is no “Ukrainian Army”, only a NATO Army of Ukro-Nazis.
Wait until the real numbers in dollars we have invested in the war come out to the U.S. population. There is another set of books for that.
“There is no Ukrainian nation”
Root cause for the war. It’s why Russia is losing.
That’s how the Russians planned to win the hearts and minds of Ukrainians… by telling Ukrainians they don’t have a nation.
How’s that working for Russia now? Russia has further united Ukraine and the West.
You hatred for Ukrainians is so obvious hence your excuses on behalf of Russia’s incompetence.
30% of Ukrainians are Russian first speakers. Virtually none are supportive of a “nationalist” movement that deems them second class citizens. Such a movement isn’t sustainable.
Just because they speak Russian doesn’t mean they want to be Russian, what percentage of Americans in 1776 spoke English?
Over 97% of the Irish are English first speakers and about 1.5% speak Irish at home. So does that mean the Irish want to be park of the United Kingdom. Africans often speak the languages of their former colonial powers also. Ukraine went throufh150 years of cultural genocide and forced assimilation under the Czars and under the commisars it was necessary to know Russian to fully participate in economic and educational life in the USSR. There are still economic and cultural advantages for Ukrainians to speak Russian. But Russian speaking Ukrainians are still Ukrainians.
Like Ukraine, Ireland is trying to revive the Irish language.
The only Russian speakers treated as second class citizens are those who don’t want to integrate and assimilative the Ukraine’s way of life. Those who want Putin to govern them instead of a Ukrainian president. Self inflicted pain if you ask me. If you love Russia so much, you can walk over. Plenty of land to get settled. Ukraine is a beautiful place full of beautiful hard working people who want nothing but peace and prosperity for their country.
I guarantee you, Russias are treated ten times better in Ukraine than Ukrainians are in Russia. Many DUMA members (parliament) are on the record saying that Ukrainians are subhumans, and that sentiment is shared among many Russians. I have seen it and lived it.
In 2013, I was in Siberia with my Russian friends. At some point a bunch of bikers (White Supremacists), pulled over and walked over to check on me. They thought I was Ukrainian and wanted to beat me. Just cause. The only reason they didn’t was cause my good friend told them I was a professional MMA fighter and that they could be the ones getting hurt. It worked.
It has been apparent since 2014 that Kyev wants the Donbass and the Crimea, but not the people living there. I have also noticed that Zelensky prioritizes land over his own people. In Mariupol and Lysichansk, for example, some of his orders clearly implied suicide. The numbers killed and wounded in his “victory” in the Kharkiv area and his stalemate in the Kherson area are staggering.
The sudden withdrawal of Russia from the Kharkiv area shows the opposite. Russia minimized the loss of people by yielding land.
These things will be remembered by the survivors on both sides, long after the conflict has ended.
Yes the Ukrainians want all of Ukraine.
“liberated” “invasion” Your media have taught you well. The area the Kiev regime took was of no strategic value and has no industries. Russia had already started pulling out of it, which is why the Ukies dared go in. There was only light Donbass militia there, and the withdrawal was executed perfectly – no troops encircled, no equipment left behind. Despite the fake Ukie video of “look at this equipment!” which was actually from Odessa months ago.
Now the troops that had been gathered in Kharkov are out in the open and they are being shelled by Russia – nice of them to come out.
The oblast was taking fire from west of it, so just staying there was as meaningless as standing still on a bridge. You either go forward if you intend to take the next area, or you go back to your side. Russia positioned themselves behind a river that is much easier to defend.
Russia has moved most of its forces from up north to Donbass where the Ukrainians are expected to attack with their main force. But of course the media won’t tell you any of this.
Kiev loses 300-500 per day for months, they lose more and more territory, and they lose 4,000 dead and many times more wounded in Kherson because of Zelensky’s insistence on an offensive. BUT they take some towns with no industries and no strategic value, and the media go “RUSSIA DEFEAT!”
Are you even aware of Ukraine’s economy falling apart? And they have now suffered at least ten thousand more dead and wounded in Kherson and south of Kharkov. Ukraine is bleeding 7 billion per month and only get about 1.7 billion. They are printing money constantly to make up for it, causing massive inflation. Russia’s tactic is simply to wait for the winter until Zelensky or whoever replaces him is forced to negotiate.
“Your media have taught you well. The area the Kiev regime took was of no strategic value and has no industries. Russia had already started pulling out of it, which is why the Ukies dared go in.”
What is the media you follow, perhaps mine is not reliable. Please share with the group. No, seriously.
You are delusional.
The Kharkiv Oblast has not strategic value? So it took Russia 6 months and thousands of casualties to figure that out. What didn’t they move those troops to the areas of real value from the beginning?
I know why, Because the Kharkiv Oblast has Grain Rich Lands and huge deposits of Natural Gas.
Isn’t going to happen. Hardliners in the Russian administration and its military will not let that happen. They are not happy that Putin did not order the Russian version of “shock and awe” that we prevailed on Iraq in 2003, knocking out electricity, water.
Hard as you want if all you have is dead, captured or fleeing soldiers with which to enforce you will, well good luck. Failure is an option. If the attempt to seize Kyiv in the first days of the war had suceeded ( I know it was never the plan) It would go down in history as an epic victory. The attempt failed, and now Ukraine has effectively infinite resources backing it up Russia has lost they need to go home preserve what they can of their steadily diminishing resources.
The war isn’t won by holding on to every village at all costs. That’s a recipe for disaster. The Russians had the choice of consolidating the frontline by drawing back to more easily defended positions or substantially increase their troop strength in Ukraine.
For the time being, the Russians chose the former so as not to escalate the conflict from a limited military operation to what would more resemble an actual war. Obviously, if Nato decides to escalate, the Russians too will have to escalate, but rushing into escalation is a sign of weakness rather than strength.
The choice of hitting the electricity grid for preventing Ukrainian troop movement seems a sensible step. I can’t believe the Russians allowed Ukrainian troop movements and Nato weapons supply all this time because they didn’t want to hit dual use infrastructure. That’s the first thing the Americans do in every war irrespective of civilian suffering.
Another one on damage control.
Whenever Russia took territory you celebrated it and called it a success, but when Ukraine reclaimed the land, it is special military planned withdrawal.
When did Russia care about escalating this war? Please, they have been escalating it since day one.
You and your Pro Putin team are delusional.
I wouldn’t want my son or grandson to be in an army where the CIC sacrifices thousands of our troops to avoid blacking out an enemy city. In this country that would be an inpeacheable offense. I find it hard to believe the Russian people would support a leadership with such a strategy.
The US/UK have a tradition of targeting civilians going back to WWII or before. The Russian army fights the enemy army and not the civilian population.
I don’t really understand why you believe that your constitution requires you to slaughter the civilian population.
“The Russian army fights the enemy army and not the civilian population.”
The Russians are so nice, aren’t they?
Russia has been shelling indiscriminately Ukraine since the beginning of the war (Plenty of Evidence). Most of the artillery shelling is unobserved, meaning, the artillerymen don’t know what they are shooting at and without forward observers. Not to mention all the missile strikes in hospitals, schools, residential areas and others.
Yes, come back with the BS that Ukraine was hiding military hardware inside those. Nice try because I’ve seen a lot of videos with Russian tanks marked with Zs and Vs in residential areas.
Have the Ukrainians done similar attacks? Yes, but the abundance of these perpetrators come from the Russian side.
Have you… Have you read anything about the Russian army during World War II?
I remember that the Nazis were trying to eradicate the Slavic sub-humans in Russia to make Lebensraum for the Arians by killing more than 20 million Russians.
Interestingly enough, the Nazi propaganda about the raping Russians is resurrected today. The lies about Russian soldiers raping to deaths 6-months old babies are so absurd that the Ukrainian who invented them was fired from her job in Kyiv.
The Ukrainian ultra-nationalists who have been trying to make Lebensraum in Donbass by massacring and ethnically cleansing Russian-speakers, on the contrary, have released rapists from prison to use their skills on civilians.
The US, after having conducted a life-experiment by testing two different designs of the atom bomb on civilian centers in Japan, had planned to use that know-how by dropping 300 nuclear bombs on the Soviet Union to kill about 400 million people. Dr. Mengele would have been horrified by that degree homicidal viciousness. Fortunately for mankind, the Soviets acquired atom bombs before the US/UK could build enough bombs and carrier system to carry out their plan. The Anglo-Saxons are skillful at making others suffer, but they are very sensitive about suffering they may have to endure.
Wow, you’ve really bought into Russia’s attempts to pass off their atrocities in WWII as a myth, huh?
Unfortunately for the anti-truth crowd, there are numerous accounts by Russian soldiers themselve detailing them. Solzhenitsyn — a decorated Red Army commander — wrote about it in his poem “Prussian Nights.” “(The little daughter’s on the mattress / Dead. How many have been on it? / A platoon, a company perhaps? / A girl’s been turned into a woman, / A woman turned into a corpse.”)
And Vasily Grossman, a war correspondent attached to the Red Army, wrote in his book “A Writer at War: A Soviet Journalist with the Red Army, 1941-1945,” “Horrifying things are happening to German women. An educated German whose wife has received ‘new visitors’ – Red Army soldiers – is explaining with expressive gestures and broken Russian words, that she has already been raped by ten men today. … Soviet girls who have been liberated from camps are suffering greatly too. Last night some of them hid in the room provided for the war correspondents. … A story about a breast-feeding mother who was being raped in a barn. Her relatives came to the barn and asked her attackers to let her have a break, because the hungry baby was crying the whole time.”
Russian film director and playwright Zakhar Agranenko, who fought with the Red Army, wrote in his diary (per Beevor’s “The Fall of Berlin 1945”) that “Red Army soldiers don’t believe in ‘individual liaisons’ with German women. Nine, ten, twelve men at a time — they rape them on a collective basis.”
Soviet interpreter and writer Elena Rzhevskaya, who was at the Battle of Berlin, wrote that “on the route to Germany, rape had become acceptable.”
No one is saying that the US and the Germans didn’t do terrible things in WWII. But stop pretending the Russians were innocent of atrocities and oh so careful with civilians. (Incidentally, I’m not writing this for you. I know you’ll keep sticking your fingers in your ears. I’m writing it for anyone else reading this, who might be open to actual evidence.)
I’m not saying that at all. I’m just stating the uncontested facts of history in the knowledge that you can’t conduct like a pacifist or saint when you are up against Nazis and terrorists. Your personal attack just shows that you don’t have any arguments. I don’t read Russian and I never followed Russian media, I just note the obvious contradictions in the Wester narrative.
That’s not even close to what you said. You said the “raping Russians” was a myth. You said that Russian army always took pains to minimize civilian damage. I pointed out primary sources and proved you were wrong, so you moved your goal posts.
War may not be conducive to “behaving like a pacifist or a saint”, but it certainly doesn’t necessitate such pervasive gang rape that it horrified many of their fellow soldiers.
What I said was that there is a clear tendency in UK/US wars to target civilians rather than fight armies for the simple reason that maritime powers cannot fight continental armies, while the Russian army tends to fight the enemy army.
There are atrocities committed on both side, but even had the Russians raped every single German woman it would hardly compensated for what the Germans did to the Russians. And I know for a fact that the vast majority of rape allegations against the Russians are lies that have their inspiration in Nazi propaganda.
Regarding the present conflict, there is no doubt whatsoever that most atrocities are committed on the Ukrainian side.
I will not read somebody’s post who starts by insulting me with unfounded allegations.
Literally nobody is saying that the Nazis didn’t do anything bad. But there’s no point in continuing a discussion with somebody who puts forth strawman arguments and shifts the goal posts constantly.
“… an army where the CIC sacrifices thousands of our troops …”
But that’s not the case. The Russians have been exceedingly careful to minimize the loss of their own soldiers (while at the same time limiting civilian casualties and damage.)
The UN just assessed Ukrainian civilian casualties:
https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/08/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-22-august-2022
“From 24 February 2022, when the Russian Federation’s armed attack against Ukraine started, to 21 August 2022, the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) recorded 13,477 civilian casualties in the country: 5,587 killed and 7,890 injured.”
In my view, this is a remarkably low rate of “collateral damage.” It should be tough to argue that this is an indication of “Russia Bad”, especially compared to the US way of war: leveling entire cities without regard to civilian lives.
In the end, all this armchair blabber is nothing; events on the ground … everything.
Time will pass. The fog of war will lift. Reality — the new reality — will be revealed.
We shall see.
You may want to read what you posted. Because you left out this part:
“ OHCHR believes that the actual figures are considerably higher, as the receipt of information from some locations where intense hostilities have been going on has been delayed and many reports are still pending corroboration. This concerns, for example, Mariupol (Donetsk region), Izium (Kharkiv region), Lysychansk, Popasna, and Sievierodonetsk (Luhansk region), where there are allegations of numerous civilian casualties.”
Thanks for the heads-up. Indeed, I did not read that far and as you say, I should have included that caveat.
Nevertheless, The Russians have taken pains to minimize the Ukrainian civilian losses.
” I can’t believe the Russians allowed Ukrainian troop movements and Nato weapons supply all this time because they didn’t want to hit dual use infrastructure.”
They didn’t “allow” Ukrainian troop movements ant NATO weapons supply all this time. They’ve tried and failed to stop Ukrainian troop movements and weapons supply all this time.
What I’m saying is that the Russians did not previously prevent Ukrainian troop movement or Nato Weapons supply by knocking out infrastructure as in the present case. They could and should have done so before.
Looks like lots of Mercs in that push.
I wouldn’t leap to conclusions. Russians get steamrolled in ethnic Ukrainian territory the same way Ukrainians get steamrolled in the Donbass. Both sides need to stay in their own neighborhoods and stop trying to force people to stay in a broken marriage by the barrel of a gun.
In all serious, y’all haven’t begun to see serious hard Russian style of war.. 1940s Russia would have bombed the Ukrainian president and pelosi when they shook hands for a photo. Y’all really don’t know what total war is.
First off, Russia expected that the real war would be between Russia and the West (NATO, U.S.A.). It was figured into their calculus after the coup in 2014 and the feeding of weapons to the illegal government in Kiev. The MIC constantly looks for a war to cash in on. Well, they got one.
Interesting video of Russia State TV program discussing the War.
At 1:15 the Duma member basically rules out Diplomacy with Ukraine. Two other members who are speaking out and telling the truth may unfortunately soon be found dead from an accidental fall from a balcony.
https://youtu.be/1uQlsQxN_bs
In Syria we have CIA paid jihadists, in Ukraine we have CIA paid Nazis.
The loving and caring Ukrainian Nazi’s are shelling a nuclear facility using British-made Brimstone missiles and US M777 howitzers. These are good guy weapons lovingly crafted to only do good in the world.
They also attempted to kidnap the IAEA party visiting the NPP nuclear power plant. Nuclear terrorism makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
NATO has tens of thousands of troops on the front lines, They are being paid US$20,000 a month with lots of heavy equipment supplied, trillions is being spent.
Dont forget, In Russia Wagner Paid Nazis
The Russian objectives were clearly stated, Disarm and DeNazification. Ukraine is clearly an unsustainable drain on the economies of the West. This war of attrition is bleeding out the Western economies, resources and weapons.
Edit:
Exactly how does Russia Denazifies Ukraine. Was that ever clear. They made up that term and have no idea what it means nor what it implies. The Wagner Group has Nazis, just saying.
But I think Russia will quit first. Russia always attacks countries when their economy is doing great, then pulls out when its economy crashes. I’m pretty sure it’ll crash before the West’s. Give it sometime and you’ll see. EU is already moving away from the Russia’s gas station.
So everyone on the Ukrainian side is a “nazi” because many of those in the Azov Battalion are.
I’m not pro-Kiev in this. But this argument doesn’t convince anyone outside of those who desperately want to believe it.
Nationalist movements generally do provide cover for Nazis. I would argue a country with at least 30% of the population not in favor of the movement presented problems for it from day one.
Everyone wants to believe Ukrainians are all Nazis because 1) there are a LOT of pro-Russia sentiments on this site, and 2) Russia paints pretty much everyone who opposes them as Nazis.
Yes, Russia was an essential force in defeating Nazi Germany in WWII. But Russia has a looong history of resting on its WWII laurels by calling pretty much anyone they don’t like “Nazis.”
Check your fire, Jon. That statement is fratricide with the RED TEAM here.
The Azov battalion are neo Nazi white supremacists, i am talking the real thing, Stepan Bandera and the ethnic cleansing campaigns of WW2. The people who overthrew the government in Ukraine are Nazi’s supported and funded by Western governments who placed these atrocious people in power.
Can we assume Russia is also planning another retreat/regroup out of Kherson?
Will it be a Goodwill Gesture this time or a withdrawal to come back stronger?
Could it be that they never intended to permanently occupy that territory? Asking for a friend.
Neocon guy as usual having no information, that’s nice. The Allied side started withdrawing from an area where they were taking fire from the west, and the withdrawal started before the Ukies went in, which is why they dared to go there in the first place. There was only light Donbass militia there, not Russian forces. The Russian artillery and Donbass militia are now on the east side of the river from where they can kill hundreds of Ukie soldiers every day with artillery, as usual. Nice of the Ukies to come out from Kharkov. The oblast has no industry for them to take and no strategic value.
Russia has instead concentrated its forces from up north to Donbass because that’s where Ukraine will make a push into an area that actually matters. Of course you don’t know this because you only watch CNN. Glad I was able to help.
That’s also why Russia pounded the Ukrainian power grid, as most of their trains run on electricity, and they need those trains to move forces down to the Donbass area. But you didn’t know that either.
I support Ukraine and that makes me a warmonger? What does supporting Russia, the invading inept force makes you? A peacekeeper? GTFOH.
For starters, Kharkiv Oblast has Grain Rich lands and huge deposits of Natural Gas which Putin is after.
If Kharkiv Oblast had no strategic value, why did Russia lost so many cannon fodders keeping it for 6 months. Why not put those troops where they were needed from the beginning.
Russia strategy is a failure and you are here putting out BS excuses.
This again. No, they had already started to withdraw from the area before the Ukies went in. Why do you think they dared go in? Because the Russians had been withdrawing. They need more forces down in Donbass where the Ukies are planning their real push, which will cost them thousands of dead soldiers, after already losing 3,000 in Kherson.
“Caught off guard” when even ordinary pundits knew for weeks that Ukraine was gathering forces in Kharkov? Really?
U.S. satellites would no doubt see that the Russians were gone, and that’s why the Ukies could just send a few soldiers to towns and villages while advancing, because they knew there were no military units there.
The area was only guarded by light Donbass militia. They withdrew – Russia did a perfect withdrawal, which is something taught at the military academy, but the public never likes it. No Russian forces were encircled, practically no one was killed, no equipment was stolen – the Ukies just had a false picture of “look at all this Russian equipment!” which was from down south months ago.
The area has no industries and no strategic value unless you plan to walk past it to take Kharkov, which the Russians didn’t. It is hard to defend and they were constantly taking fire from the western border. There was no point in holding it. Now they are behind a river which is much easier, and they can start the usual bombing of Ukraine’s forces from there. Before those forces were in Kharkov, now they are out in the open.
I thought the Mighty Red Army had plenty of troops to finish the job in Ukraine. Perhaps they need to release more prisoners or ask North Korea for more troops.
BTW, Ukraine doesn’t need solely US satellites, Ukraine is full of Ukrainians and they have a real time national network (cel phones).
Stop spreading Kremlin propaganda.
well here we go > is this the reality of the ukraine situation?
“”Ukraine is not fighting this war against Russia. In reality, it is the United States with a mercenary army. America is supplying the weapons, the logistics, the tactics, and many highly-trained troops.””
https://tsarizm.com/analysis/2022/09/13/ukraine-is-not-fighting-russia-america-is-with-a-mercenary-army/
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certainly i cannot tell what is what from the safety of my los angeles suburb hide-out
People need to get a clue… Start here:
Clarity In Small Dozes. Or Why I Do Not “Do” Sitreps.
https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/09/clarity-in-small-dozes.html
In Other News.
https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/09/in-other-news.html
Betrayal
Instant Gratification Blitzkrieg.
All the Russians have to do is to watch how Biden and his crew of neocons SLAUGHTER their European NATO allies economically.
They demolish the NATO economies yet want more money and expect them to take care of the refugees from the ME and all over and provide military supplies to Ukraine.
The hegemon is doing self-isolation, self-destruction. Asia and Africa and the continental Europeans are turning against them. That is more than half the global population.
Sounds like a fair assessment to me…