The European Union is backing off its sharply divisive plan to implement a price cap on Russian gas, according to Reuters. There were major concerns leading up to an emergency meeting of EU energy ministers in Brussels on Friday, but the overriding fear was Moscow would respond by cutting all gas exports to the continent. This comes ahead of winter with energy prices already soaring as a result of the Washington-led sanctions campaign intended to isolate and cripple Russia’s economy. The campaign has backfired with the ruble rallying against the dollar and mounting inflation plaguing the United States and Europe.
The G7 recently announced a plan to impose a maximum price on Russian oil by early December. This policy has been pushed heavily by US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen. Analysts have warned it could see Moscow cut production in response, possibly raising global oil prices to a "stratospheric" $380 per barrel. The Kremlin responded to the G7’s announcement by indefinitely closing the Nord Stream 1 pipeline which brings natural gas from Russia to Germany. Moscow said it would cut exports to any country attempting to implement the restrictions. Natural gas prices in Europe are already ten times what they were last year.
On Wednesday, the EU said it would be making a proposal to cap the price of Russian gas. European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said the provocative measure was necessary to punish Moscow and deprive it of further revenue to fund its war in Ukraine. Russian President Vladimir Putin then threatened to cut gas exports to Europe completely if the policy was adopted.
However, a minimum of 10 EU states opposed the plan including Germany, Italy, Poland, and Greece. The Czech Republic was advocating that the plan not even be discussed at the ministerial meeting. This month, Prague saw massive demonstrations of 70,000 people, across the political spectrum, protesting against NATO’s proxy war in Ukraine and rising energy prices caused by the anti-Russian sanctions blitz. As the cold winter approaches, such anti-government protests are expected to become more frequent. At any rate, the bloc sanction would have required unanimous approval which appeared highly unlikely.
There is now talk of a generalized price cap on gas which would not single out Moscow. Since February the Kremlin has cut 80% of gas exports to Europe. This alternative plan hopes to prevent further Russian retaliations. As the Financial Timesreported, the "general gas price cap could be passed with a qualified majority. Hungary, Austria and the Netherlands are opposed to any kind of cap. Proponents of a limit on the price of all gas imports suggest setting it above current prices in Asia and the US to ensure international traders have an incentive to send shipments to Europe."
Next week, the ministers are expected to discuss a "windfall plan" whereby governments skim "excess profits" from energy producers operating wind, nuclear, and coal-fired power plants and "recycle" the funds into households. The argument is these producers have been able sell their energy at record prices as a result of sky-high gas costs, and these "windfalls" could be used to reduce consumer bills.
“Taking some of those excess profits and recycling them back into the households makes sense,” Irish Environment Minister Eamon Ryan said on Friday.
Connor Freeman is the assistant editor and a writer at the Libertarian Institute, primarily covering foreign policy. He is a co-host on the Conflicts of Interest podcast. His writing has been featured in media outlets such as Antiwar.com, Counterpunch, and the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity. He has also appeared on Liberty Weekly, Around the Empire, and Parallax Views. You can follow him on Twitter @FreemansMind96.
What a shocking change. Just this morning US was talking about India and efforts to make it accept the cap!
There is still so much confusion on gas, but also the issue of insurance for ships carrying Russian crude slated for December.
Chaos seems to be the key word. But the famous oul cap seems to be history.
And thank goodness for that. The US is rapidly losing its clout as WINTER approaches. The European Nations are not that stupid to cut off their noses to spite their faces.
With the knife we supply to them. Maybe there are some smart politicians in those countries.
Just not enough, from the left Dr. Wagenknecht delivered a great passionate speech against the sanctions and the insanity of it all in the BT in Berlin.
They are like little children; incapable of thinking clearly or accepting responsibility for their actions. I certainly hope the Baltics, along with Poland, as the chief instigators of “sanctions” and “support for Ukraine” feel the economic pain the worst. A whole pack of politicians that need to face the music.
I think the Baltics are less likely to suffer than Germany, France, Italy and Hungary (the least eager to apply sanctions) as they have been preparing for longer and have alternatives.
For the sanctions to be effective Germany, France and Italy have to be torn down, it would be the end of the EU which looks like that is the intention. But it will also be the end of NATO, the Biden people appear to overlook that. They would be alone to attack China alone and without NATO’s help.
I could imagine an economic melt down of the wider global economy set off by the crisis in China, the energy crisis in Europe or even some US thing that I’m currently just not aware of, but I don’t see any one in EU deliberately deciding to do their economy permanent damage by sabotaging the EU itself.
But then no one imagined that UK would leave so…
Even should this come to pass, I do not see NATO breaking down, what circumstances do you envision that would bring this about?
But on the China issue, I think that the contribution of the ‘other’ NATO members would be mostly on the moral level – the ability to project power is very limited in Europe, and they are already stretched.
There are sanctions against some 30 nations, some are decades old like CUBA, Iran, and now almost a decade against Russia. They even sanction Afghanistan and Venezuela, and the allies if they don’t implement sanctions were the USA dictates it. Weaponizing nations economies has become the rule. If they sneeze they get sanctioned.
At the end of this war between Russia and NATO, if the keep going like this, no matter how it ends, the global economy is likely to come crushing down on all of us.
Only the ones on Russia are as I see it justified.
Yes it seems to be the new ‘normal’ – the Iran thing being the most recent and clear case – for many of the other countries there have unfortunately been less opposition against sanctions.
It is not a war between Russia and NATO (yet) and it is not likely to become one lest the Russians attack a NATO country.
I’m not at all convinced that this war will cause a global economic collapse – but together with all the other problems it might just – so not entirely convinced it will not either.
There is however no way to get the toothpaste back in the tube as I see it, or rather as I understand that the politicians in Europe, the US, Canada, Australia, South Korea and Japan sees it.
They can’t end the sanctions without starting the stop watch on China taking back Taiwan and they can’t cope with all the problems currently on their plate plus a world plagued with SMO’s popping up all over the place.
De facto NATO is involved in Ukraine, they funded armed and trained the Ukrainians, NATO held military exercises and kept the NATO troops on a continuing basis in Ukraine because permanent stationing of NATO
troops is illegal.
Biden is doing all he can to provoke Russia to attack a NATO member, like accidentally dropping a bomb on polish soil. American troops have been stationed in Germany, Green Berets in Baumholder and HQ has been moved from Vaihingen, close to Stuttgart, up north closer to Ramstein the AFB and Landstuhl the big US hospital.
Biden aims for regime change in any way he can get it.
Biden met with Zelensky when they were still in Afghanistan in March and again in fall, they prepared for that. Fake insistence for NATO membership was used to provoke Russia, knowing that is was a taboo with other NATO members.
Biden is a liar, at least as good as Trump.
NATO trained Ukrainian troops and are now training far more, they are now funding them to a very large degree, but between 2014 and 2022 that was not a large scale program and AFAIK not a NATO program.
Regarding NATO troops stationed in Ukraine do you have any actual proof of this, just asking because unless you are talking about a very small number of clandestine specialists, NATO troops being stationed anywhere is a thing we learn about very fast as they are not able to keep such a secret.
I think you are dead wrong, Biden and indeed all the NATO members have gone out of their way to avoid having NATO directly involved – as in nearly endless delays in supplying heavy weapons and aircrafts – NATO entering this conflict is Putin’s best scenario and not high up on anyone’s wish list in the West.
I think he would like to stop short of getting into actual war with the Russians, it is about the only way the US could conceivably lose.
I think you will find that while many Ukrainians are willing to consider neutrality there was a majority wish for NATO membership in Ukraine – that said there was no way Ukraine could join NATO – not while they had a conflict with Russia over Crimea, so the Russian fear of Ukraine joining NATO were blown out of proportion.
Putin has to negotiate with Biden, Zelensky has no authority, Biden is the man in charge, Zelensky is the guy who throws Ukraine and the people under the bus. He is paid well for that, he has a big bank account and expensive property in Europe and his tickets to get out with his wife.
The war is USA/NATO v. Russia. Ukraine and NATO are cannon fodder, proxies for the USA.
At no time did the Ukrainian people want NATO membership, Only the neo-Nazis, the Azov people wanted that.
The people voted for peace.
Ukraine was de facto NATO, but they could not have nuclear weapons and permanent NATO troops in Ukraine.
This may be how you see it, there is a massive mandate in Ukraine for continuing the war, so that is not how the US or Biden sees it – and that is what matters to Biden and the leaders of EU – none of which would be happy to have Biden negotiate with Putin.
This is not about Zelenskyy as such, and if you are implying that he is corrupt tp the bone, one wonders why the Russians would not just have offered him money to surrender.
As I said not how the Ukrainians see it not how the other NATO members sees it and not how the US electorate would see it – and NATO is not providing cannon fodder Putin is by forced conscriptions in the Donbas.
I want to play your game too. What you said is wrong.
Michael64 Renate Littlejohn • 3 hours ago
Putin has to negotiate with Biden, Zelensky has no authority, Biden is the man in charge, Zelensky is the guy who throws Ukraine and the people under the bus.
This may be how you see it, there is a massive mandate in Ukraine for continuing the war, so that is not how the US or Biden sees it – and that is what matters to Biden and the leaders of EU – none of which would be happy to have Biden negotiate with Putin.
He is paid well for that, he has a big bank account and expensive property in Europe and his tickets to get out with his wife.
This is not about Zelenskyy as such, and if you are implying that he is corrupt tp the bone, one wonders why the Russians would not just have offered him money to surrender.
The war is USA/NATO v. Russia. Ukraine and NATO are cannon fodder, proxies for the USA.
As I said not how the Ukrainians see it not how the other NATO members sees it and not how the US electorate would see it – and NATO is not providing cannon fodder Putin is by forced conscriptions in the Donbas.
If you want to play my game you have to be able to use the features of the site – otherwise you are just presenting parts of my argument – but if you want to present what I say again and again without your take on it – then I guess that makes me happy.
You are in BS territory now.
No I’m trying to tell you how these matters are likely to be seen in the US and EU – if you disagree you are free to argue the case.
“Only the ones on Russia are as I see it justified.”
You said it, the self-sanctions against Russia are exactly the bullets in the head of the EU and NATO.
I do not see these sanctions as self-sanctions.
Even the fact that the Russians have chosen to respond by stopping gas supplies to Western Europe is not on any scale a bigger problem than to allow the Russians to invade Ukraine with no sanctions applied.
There is no alternative to ending the dependence on Russian energy anyway so the pain would have to come very fast anyway – it was already scheduled for 2030 now it has merely been moved forward by about 7 years.
The alternative costs of having China taking back Taiwan alone would make the cost of ending dependence on Russian energy small fry – add to that the costs of having most countries in the world arming themselves for the coming conflicts and you may get a picture of why sanctions on Russia is by far the cheaper alternative.
The only entity that can legally sanction is the UN. Washington‘s sanctions are nearly all illegal.
German companies now pay 8 times more for energy than their competitors in the US or Asia. That will lead to a deindustrialization of Germany and other EU countries. To understand what that means, you can have a look at the Morgenthau plan.
Once the prosperity is gone, the EU will fall apart. Most are in it only for the money. If Nato suffers a defeat in Ukraine after the defeats in Afghanistan and the Middle East, countries will lose faith in Nato’s ability to defend their security.
Putin greatly expanded Russian influence in the greater Middle East with a relatively small military mission in Syria. Leaders in the Golf, Iran, North Africa and even Israel have come to respect Russia while losing faith in the West. The same will happen worldwide if the Russians can bring to an end the war the US started with the coup in Kyiv 8 years ago.
The US/UK Empires need constant war to survive by divide and conquer strategies. Russia and China need peace to prosper. US/UK warmongers are running scarred because Putin is bringing China and India together. The US/UK desperately need another war.
Absolutely true if it is a situation that is going to persist – but then that is unlikely.
Again correct, but then there is no way that the EU is going to keep using gas at those prices so this is not going to persist for more than a couple of years at most 5.
NATO can’t suffer a defeat in Ukraine as NATO is not fighting in Ukraine – or have you missed that point? NATO is stronger and would get even stronger (as in having more popular support) if the Ukrainians lose.
While I would like to agree with much of what you write here, the notion that the US started a war with a coup in Kyiv 8 years ago is so wrong that I simply can’t.
Russia is too corrupt to prosper, but otherwise fairly accurate.
Wrong again, UK and the US have had plenty of opportunity to turn this into a war between them and Russia – they have shied away from doing so at each occasion.
As for them fearing that Russia is bringing China and India together – yes that would frighten them – on that we agree.
Once the factories are gone, they won’t come back. With the Ukraine war, Western dominance/prosperity comes to ends after 5 centuries. Thank you Ukraine /s
Sure, but then factories are not likely to be gone as the EU is not likely to let things develop without intervention – there are ways to address such imbalances.
As unbelievable as it is, but the deindustrialization of Germany and with it the EU is self-inflicted sanctions of Russian energy to benefit the big oil giants, the 7 sisters.
Sanctions, economic warfare , suicidal. Can it get any better????
Forget what happens in Ukraine militarily, the real war is in Europe against the people in advanced economies now.
It is unbelievable because it is not true.
Said by an economic illiterate.
Trolling must be difficult when you have nothing to say.
Come back when you have something constructive to say.
The US is forcing EU members to sanction other EU members if they break sanctions against Russia or Iran.
American threats of sanctions against Germany is why NS2 prevents the operation of the pipeline, not Russia. The Germans are losing either way, they should have backbone and open the pipeline, they have nothing to lose. Could it get more bizarre?
NATO nations have national interests too, now Biden is coercing them just like Bush did but when that power is gone, NATO will break apart I think, but no one can tell.
NATO was created to fight Russia, if Russia is gone Europe will be in ruins too, they will be in no shape to fight China and would have no obligation unless China invaded the USA. Japan would not be likely to fight against China just for American interests.
Germany lost its sovereignty because of WWII, I really don’t see how Germany could regain its sovereignty short of WWIII. Nobody wants that. Nobody wants a revival of German nationalism.
I don’t think Germans want that either. They were quite happy to be prosperous and to be nice and generous neighbors. For many years they were the paymaster for the EU. It is nice to be in a position to give.
But the Anglo-Saxon always feared Germany and Russia. George Friedman from Stratford wrote a lot about it too. The Bismarck Germany was getting too powerful, while the UK was losing its colonial empire, and the US was another industrial power. That was the real trigger for WWI. To eliminate Germany, next chance was WWII, Germany was saved because they needed Germany against Russia, now this is the third chance to eliminate Germany.
They do not want to lead and hide under a rock if they can.
Whatever objective people think the Ukraine war has, the objective of separating Germany and Russia has already been achieved. Of course, it might destroy Germany, but why should the Americans worry about that?
The axis Moscow-Berlin-Paris against the Iraq war greatly worried the Americans. There were many in Western Europe (especially Germany, France, Italy) who wanted better relations with Russia. Putin wanted an economic area from Lisbon to Vladivostok. That was Europe’s last chance for survival but it would have made the Americans superfluous. The means to prevent that was the Ukraine war.
It is now the last chance to eliminate Germany for good, a little late since Moscow joined Beijing and other Asian countries. They can now lean back and watch Germany’s and the continents self-destruction.
Self-imposed sanctions against Russian energy will do it.
We don’t know if it is corruption, coercion, stupidity or insanity, it is bizarre how a successful EU is self-destructing led by Germany on orders of the US. They shot themselves in the head, all on order of the US neocons, the morally and intellectually bankrupt American corporate elite, the MIC, the oil giants, big finance, all war profiteers. All with help of MSM and their trolls in print and electronic media.
All of that is public knowledge too.
You appear not to understand neither politics nor economics so I guess it is not possible to get you to see why there was and is no alternative for any of the EU countries.
For those who are blind to how the public in Europe responded to Putin invading Ukraine, perhaps – for those of us that know, there was never any alternative to what EU has done and what EU would have done even without encouragements from the US.
Just as the US is about to sacrifice Ukraine, it’ll also sacrifice Europe for expanding its Empire. I don’t think they intended to destroy Europe. It will happen because they believed in their own propaganda about the weakness of the Russian economy. Now they can’t turn back.
Sanctions never work, still American decision makers fell for the idea that the unprecedented sanctions will cripple the Russian economy to make Russians topple their own government, which would lead to the dissolution of the Russian Federation and access to Russian resources for corporate America.
That could have extended the lifespan of the US empire for a little longer.
You said it, they believe their own propaganda and that removes them from reality, and they can’t make decisions without reliable information und common sense judgement.
Spot on , they came close to controlling Russia`s resources when Yeltsin was in power , Putin spoil`t the party and the yanks have never forgiven him for it , he kicked them all out , including the likes of Obramovich who was told how much money he and his ilk could get out of Russia with , the plan is still to trash the Russian Economy and render the Russian Military impotent by keeping the Ukrainians fighting for decades , but with limited man power Ukraine will lose , infantry win wars all way`s have all way`s will.
NATO would fold like a paper tiger againstRussia & China. They would lose all their important cities if they dared attack. How many cities would France & England lose B4 they surrendered… France would not want to Lose Paris nor England Lose London. What other NATO members have Nukes except U.S. so all of Russian and China bombs would go there. YIKES..!!!!
It occurred to me that the war has changed, it has become economic warfare, another well practiced US war fare method. Europe is on the path of self-destruction with self-imposed sanctions against Russian energy. They shot themselves in the head.
Not at all true. Baltic states now live of European corporate investments and US help mostly through financial instruments, But the unvestments are dwindling and emigration from those countries highest in Europe if not world. The Baltics implented a unique mortgage system where one cannot go into foreclosure allowing bank to recoup loan value. Even after bank takes over the prooerty the owner still is responsible financially to the bank that did not recover the full amount of principal and interest. Salaries, retirement pay are all attached to recover bank’s loss. This is why young people flee ti avoid life debt trap.
Baltic states leadership is the generation of Cold War anti-communists and dissenters in Siviet Union financed by the West. And who are these people? Descendents if Nazi cillaborators un Lithuania, Latvia and especially Estonia. After the war they were quiet and afraid of retaliation in former Soviet Union, West thew them a kufe jacket by funding their “anty-communist” activities, press, support from diaspora. And naturally at tge endcof Cold War they were rewarded.
Anti-communism served its ourpose, and soon thereafter they were free to hate. Russian population was and is abused because they are Russians — the people who defeated Hitler. Thus destructiin of WWII monuments. Of course tBaltucs sees those as the minuments ifvan enemy who destroyed their beloved Third Reich. Sane in Ukraine. The entire WEST Ukraine was Hitler’s ally. And today, trying to punish 2/3 ofvUjrainian population for fighting with Soviet Army. How likely is this to suceed with all our help? Do you think US does not know who is Stjepan Bandera? That Zelensky does not know who the hero of Ukraine was?
Back to Baltics. Their inflation rate s ABOVE 30%. The elite consisting of hateful people who are mouting of Western values, but mentalltly stuck in WWII loss to Russia — cannot move on. They are total dependency of the West. This is why they want NATO trouos. That would be their economy and an insurance policy to elites.
It is ironic that Ukraine wants into the EU, like the Baltics, to get their share of the EU’s prosperity at the very moment this prosperity is being destroyed by a shift in the global power balance caused by the Ukraine war.
Adding insult upon injury, Ukrainian Bandera supporters want Europe to be grateful to Ukraine for allegedly defending Western democracy against the “Orcs”.
Thus, Ukraine, in addition to destroying Europe’s peace and prosperity, also undermines Europe’s so-called Western values by exporting it’s brand of ultra-nationalism including state terrorism, a hit list for dissidents, censorship and an unprecedented campaign of disinformation.
The EU swallowed a poison pill by integrating Eastern members who do not accept the EU’s values. Ukraine will be the last nail in the EU’s coffin. The EU’s founding fathers must be turning in their graves because of the perversion of the EU’s founding ideas, which were to overcome nationalism and not fan national hatred.
But if you look at the statements of Ukraine’s far-right leaders, it all makes sense, because they see Ukraine as the base for “the last crusade to bring the final victory for the white race,” in the same way the Jihadists see Afghanistan (or Syria) as the base for spreading the Islamic caliphate across the whole world.
Both are psychopaths who serve the US Empire as fighting force because Westerners are too fat and lazy to do the fighting themselves.
And Bianca, you are so right,
Europe is on the path of self-inflicted economic suicide, they shot themselves in the head when they sanctioned Russian energy which they need for their economy to survive.
The Russians will win that part of the war too. They did win the military part already.
Sure… Not!
You are right, they are poor states and depend on the EU for a living, they all went neoliberal with their economies and hate Russia.
Yes, every day the butter clarifies, separates the barbarians from the Xtians.
The three Baltics are really poor but are willing tools for provoking Russia, but Russians know that is all they can do, they are poor and don’t have much to lose. They are on the losing side for sure.
Yes the Baltics are poor – still a lot richer than the Russians on average – as for them being on the losing side – that would seem even an more remote chance.
They are willing proxies for the US the real instigators of sanctions, brutal economic warfare with gigantic human rights abuses, starvation and denial of medical care for millions of people, irreversible brain damage caused by malnutrition on millions of children. Economic warfare is as evil as any warfare with bullets and chemicals.
The long time of horror for parents watching the slow painful starvation death of their children. Bullet or bombs are more humane than that.
Yes, president Biden, you are an evil war criminal, Putin does not do that, you do.
Powerful indictment. They give no thought to this, just “collateral damage”, Rumsfeld’s “stuff happens”.
And I also think, Putin does.
National security is a real issue for Russia. We must not forget. Hitler invaded Russia, the Russian people lost more than 20 million people. The US opposed nuclear missiles in Cuba, nuclear missiles in Ukraine amounts to the same problem for Russia, just much bigger.
Sanctions are war, hunger and lack of medical treatment equals bombs and bullets. Destroying a nation with economic sanctions replaces the bombing of infrastructure and hunger replaces the bullets, it is less bloody but as savage as bombs and bullets. War is war. Why does Biden sanction Venezuela, Cuba, Afghanistan, Iran? All sanctions are illegal and really war crimes. Sanctions are warfare.
And target to most effect the poor, old, infirm, women and children, … a disgraceful and cowardly crime.
Yes, that is war, regardless of what shape or form, it never fails.
“There is now talk of a generalized price cap on gas which would not single out Moscow.”
Anything BUT diplomacy.
Do you think that Putin is ready to negotiate his withdrawal from all of Ukraine including Crimea, I do not and that being the case there would seem to be no room for diplomacy – the western powers are very unlikely to be willing to lift sanctions on Russia before the reason that sanctions were initiated i.e. the annexation of Crimea is reversed.
There is one Western Power that makes 95% of the decisions.
That does not address the question at all.
In your misplaced (as usual) opinion.
You were replying to:
And your reply was:
How does saying that the US (I’m guessing) is responsible for 95% of sanctions address the question of whether Putin is ready to negotiate the Russian withdrawal?
If you had included a reference to what you were replying to, perhaps even you would have been able to spot the lack of connection.
Hogwash!!!!!
Do you think that Putin is ready to negotiate his withdrawal from all of Ukraine including Crimea, I do not and that being the case there would seem to be no room for diplomacy – the western powers are very unlikely to be willing to lift sanctions on Russia before the reason that sanctions were initiated i.e. the annexation of Crimea is reversed.
And your reply was:
There is one Western Power that makes 95% of the decisions.
How does saying that the US (I’m guessing) is responsible for 95% of sanctions address the question of whether Putin is ready to negotiate the Russian withdrawal?
If you had included a reference to what you were replying to, perhaps even you would have been able to spot the lack of connection.
Hogwash!!!!!
Please learn how to use the features of the site – what you do here is only to further the case for you not only not being able to debate in a civilized manner, but actually being unable to argue any coherent position.
Maybe there should be sanctions on the US for stealing Syrian oil and until our withdrawal? Along with our total withdrawal from Iraq and Libya.
Yes I guess anyone wanting to side with Assad could join?
Are there US occupation troops in Libya – I was not aware, if there are then sure, again any coalition of countries that sees the issue like this would be free to apply such sanctions.
Stop clogging up the comments by copying and pasting comments from the previous post, moron!
Reading skills challenged?
No but your memory skills evidently are approaching those of Biden.
😂
Memory probably better than yours, but I quote the people whom I answer to make it clear what each paragraph is an answer to and to leave a trace when people delete their comment – a not infrequent thing to have happen.
People can’t delete their comment here. Try again!!!
They can block and delete others.
Perhaps in your imagination people can’t delete their comments here. In the real world, they can.
Thomas I think by mistake you replied to me when you meant MICHAEL64.
Frankly, I do believe Michael64 is trolling.
A link I posted was removed as spam. I reposted it, it disappears. A troll can do that.
It is about the EU energy policies blocking Russian energy by williamengdahl.com , Armageddon
You can delete your own comment just look to your right see the -/* block another user.
He responds to all questions and comments in an organized manner and that bothers you?
That makes you the real moron.
You’d be kissing his ass if he was Pro Putin.
But he is a trolling against Putin and is pretty good at it.
“Yes I guess anyone wanting to side with Assad could join?”
How neocon of you.
Yeah, Wars ….WTF Its siding against the American war, theft & occupation. When did you become so anti Assad? What did he do to earn your displeasure…???? All I see is him trying to fend off another U.S. takeover. Do you think that he has the Syrian people for or against him..???? We all know what outside forces are against him. Our No.1 Welfare Queen calls the “Shots” at him, and do you approve of us stealing his oil too….??? **** I’m afraid to ask you on Ukraine. Seems like wars R you too these days!!!!!!!
Was that directed at me for calling HIM a neocon? If so, you can’t be serious!
Do you think the “western powers” are ready to negotiate what might have precipitated the invasion and the annexation? Like 30 years of provocations?
Why not take Putin up on his offer to negotiate, that is the only way to find out?
It is the USA who is unwilling to negotiate. As you say if Russia is not ready to give up everything, accept total surrender there is nothing to negotiate about. Total victory for Biden no less. At what price?
That is up to the Ukrainians neither the US nor EU (or NATO) is actually at war with the Russians.
They do not have a mandate to negotiate.
With the little exception that to negotiate Biden would be acting over the head of the Ukrainians like Chamberlain did with Hitler over the Sudetenland – so not a good look at all.
Also it would be pretending that the US could actually dictate what the Ukrainians should be willing to live with – again no mandate so not living up to the democratic values the US wants to uphold – not that they always do, but that it looks very bad for any President who does not.
Then what is stopping Zelensky to negotiate, take Putin up on it and find out ?
I did forget, Boris Johnson on his last visit to Kiev told Zelensky not to negotiate they, BIDEN was not ready yet, and Zelensky followed orders he stopped.
The US does not pretend to dictate, the US is in charge. And Democratic values under Zelensky is a joke, talking about it is just BS.
As I understand it, it comes down to the idea that the Ukrainian public currently believes that they will prevail and hence they are unwilling to compromise.
Zelenskyy is a politician, he knows that the Russians have only offered to negotiate a peace on Moscow’s terms, so he is holding out for better terms – it is negotiations from a distance if you like.
Nothing to suggest that Zelenskyy was about to negotiate – have you been following the Ukrainian press you would know that entering such negotiations presently would be political suicide.
We see this fairly differently, the US has not so far entered into negotiations and I strongly doubt that they will – to do so is to concede involvement on a level that they are not currently interested in.
Was there anything in Zelenskyy’s presidency up until the end of 2021 that implied that he was not going to be in a democratic election at the end of his term?
Yet Zelensky is till listening to his US, UK and Nato partners advising him not to return to the table. Yes it’s up to Zelensky indeed.
Nato, US and EU are funneling tremendous amounts of weapons, funds and even training Ukrainian troops. It’s ignorant to say they “aren’t at war”. It’s one obvious proxy war in which it’s the Ukrainians who are paying dearly.
As the Ukrainians are seeing it they are winning, why would they negotiate, before the Russians are offering a better starting position – there is no pressure internally in Ukraine that forces Zelenskyy to start negotiations quite the contrary.
It is not ignorant to say that they are not at war, it is accurate – there are no war emergency programs in any of the NATO countries so it is simply not the case that they are even treating it as a war.
There is no desire in Ukraine to end this war and the sentiment is currently that they will prevail – and that was before September. So if you follow the actual sentiments on the ground in Ukraine you would know that they do not consider that they are being sacrificed in a war that is of little interest to them.
Your response was incorrect and without merit, Michael64
Michael64 The Emperor • 2 hours ago
Yet Zelensky is till listening to his US, UK and Nato partners advising him not to return to the table. Yes it’s up to Zelensky indeed.
As the Ukrainians are seeing it they are winning, why would they negotiate, before the Russians are offering a better starting position – there is no pressure internally in Ukraine that forces Zelenskyy to start negotiations quite the contrary.
Nato, US and EU are funneling tremendous amounts of weapons, funds and even training Ukrainian troops. It’s ignorant to say they “aren’t at war”. It’s one obvious proxy war in which it’s the Ukrainians who are paying dearly.
It is not ignorant to say that they are not at war, it is accurate – there are no war emergency programs in any of the NATO countries so it is simply not the case that they are even treating it as a war.
There is no desire in Ukraine to end this war and the sentiment is currently that they will prevail – and that was before September. So if you follow the actual sentiments on the ground in Ukraine you would know that they do not consider that they are being sacrificed in a war that is of little interest to them.
Which parts of it is it that you think are without merit or incorrect – just asking because I can find the articles in the Ukrainian press to substantiate how they see this and that is what is being debated here.
Would that be the Ukrainian press that Zelenskyy nationalized early in the war, about the same time he outlawed opposition political parties? That Ukrainian press there?
yes it would, are you contesting that the Ukrainian press reflects fairly accurately the national sentiment? Just asking because the polls taken even by foreign pollsters come to the same results, perhaps because Zelenskyy nationalized the press and outlawed some opposition parties.
What we debate here is how the Ukrainians feel about the war not if it is fair or right that they should feel like that.
I’m not debating how “the Ukrainians” feel about the war. I’m pointing out that we do not and cannot know how “the Ukrainians” feel about the war.
I suspect Russian forces are getting a much less friendly reception than they expected, but between the natural fog of war and the “propaganda duel” in which even supposedly “free” press has picked its side and shows its bias, it’s not possible to get trustworthy information.
If someone is claiming that there is Ukrainian opposition to the war then though I would agree with the general idea of what you say, I would attempt to estimate what we can surmise about the subject.
So as you point out the Russians have likely met with a less warm reception than they expected – this is reflected in the low number of people welcoming them – the lack of videos from their side depicting such welcomes tells a lot.
The Ukrainians have few problems shooting such videos from their phones when liberation territory from the Russians – yes it could be propaganda, but then why the paucity of such videos from the Russians.
A number of other factors seem to indicate that this is actually so and not just propaganda:
– The resistance movement in the areas taken by the Russians.
– The protests against the Russians in Kherson at risk of their lives
– The lack of such protests against the Kyiv government
– The absence of large scale defections or even early surrenders by Ukrainians tired or unmotivated to fight
Any one of these factors would be explainable but together they paint a picture that gets harder and harder to claim is just propaganda.
To see where the propaganda is playing a clear role – look no further than the claim that the Russians are suffering from very poor morale and motivation – was this clearly the case we should have expected larger number of Russian soldiers surrendering.
Wait so now they are winning? My this is dizzying indeed. Weren’t they winning from almost the beginning that’s what the impression was at least.
There is no pressure, period. Zelensky is relaying to his people that they are winning if that was the case they wouldn’t need to put any pressure on Zelensky to negotiate or anything of the sort. Not to mention opposition or differing thought would be tried or captured by Ukraine’s SBU. Ukraine is at the moment a closed information system. The government dictates to the media what’s going on. And so far they’ve been winning the entire time for the most part.
They themselves are not at war, but that’s the very essence of proxy war. Making the locals fight amongst each other instead of the main powers. So they can pretend nah we aren’t at war. If I was listening to only one side and thinking uncritically I can see why the peoples there would think so. It’s easy to sway the sentiment when you control the media for the most part. And banned/exiled any contradictory information.
This is the first Ukrainian offensive that actually takes back territory that the Russians were not already planning to vacate.
They who? The west are not applying any pressure and they would have no mandate to do so.
This is very usual for even democracies when faced with an invasion, Russia having no one invading it is much worse so…
It is the Russians fighting the Ukrainians – the people of the separatist oblasts would not be invading Ukraine if they were not forced to do so by the Russians.
That is I guess exactly why you risk 15 years in jail for even calling it a war in Russia – the Ukrainians have no such absurd laws and no they are not just putting people with opposing views in jail – you have to do more to get that treatment.
It is that is why the Russians are not out on the streets in even higher numbers to protest the war, in Ukraine you are in easy reach of all media and yes even the Russian ones, as most Ukrainians understand Russian the idea that they are just uninformed is harder to sustain than that the Russians are in a worse position.
So no I do not believe that this is the only reason that the Ukrainians are confident that they are not losing the war – that is more likely down to the fact that a much larger neighbor has failed to defeat them over 6 months of fighting.
The Crimea is not annexed, there was a referendum, the people are Russian speaking and voted overwhelming to be part of the RF.
You just said that something didn’t happen, then explained how it happened.
Sorry, what do you refer too?
The annexation of Crimea at the request of its voters.
There was a referendum, the majority of voters supported to join the RF. Maybe I did not express myself well, it all happened after the regime change in 2014.
What if there would be a referendum about the Golan Heights in Golan? The Israelis did annex the Golan with approval of the USA.
I would not be surprised if the Israelis are the majority now anyway.
Yes, there was a referendum in Crimea on whether to request annexation by Russia. And then Crimea was annexed by Russia.
It was annexed then there was a referendum held by the occupying forces – bit the other way around – we in the west do not acknowledge this as a lawful way to acquire territory.
Well, you acknowledged the annexation of the Golan Heights in Syria. But Israel did that, so it is ok.
No it most certainly was not OK and EU and many others have implemented ‘sanctions’ on Israel for this and other reasons – are you unaware of this?
Do you have a link? I am not aware of any sanctions against Israel.
There are not many as the EU nations can’t agree on it, but there are some:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93European_Union_relations
None of them specifically based on the Golan issue though.
The annexation did not occur until after the referendum, and the referendum was used as the justification for the annexation.
Annexations is merely the codification of a particular area’s status in law. It can be hostile or friendly, and it can be recognized or not by other polities.
For example, in most areas of the US, if a large city wants to annex a suburb, both parties have to consent by referendum or by actions of their respective city councils. That was, formally (I’m not going to address whether the process was honest and fair), the process in Crimea. There was a referendum on whether to ask the Russian Federation to annex Crimea, then the Russian Duma did annex Crimea pursuant to the result/request of the referendum.
An example of a hostile annexation would be the Golan Heights. Israel has occupied that area for decades, and then just announced it was annexing the area. The people who live in the area, or who previously lived in it before its military occupation, weren’t asked. Neither was Syria, of which it was a part. And most polities around the world don’t recognize the annexation as legitimate.
Yes I guess I put it wrongly what I meant to say was that the referendum was held after the Russians had taken the territory – which is the central point when it comes to judging if it was a referendum we could ever acknowledge.
But thanks for pointing it out, it is important to be as precise as possible in these matters – and I certainly should have been more precise as the point that we cannot accept the results of such a referendum is important the process matters.
Yes that is obviously worse, though do you know how many Ukrainians had left Crimea by the time the referendum was held? I only know that about ½ a million Russians have moved to Crimea post 2014.
The same holds true for Ukraine – i.e. Ukraine was not asked and Ukrainians borne in Crimea were not asked to cast their vote either
Nor should they – not the Golan Heights nor Crimea – recognizing that kind of land grabbing can only lead to more wars.
The Russians have offered to hold another vote under international supervision. This NATO has rejected.
Naturally it has been rejected – you cannot accept a post hoc justification for taking territory from your neighbors – then every nation could engage in that kind of policy shifting the population about or threaten them to do as they pleased.
If the objective is self determination, a new free vote is the internationally recognized method for determining that whether you like it or not. But of course the objective is not self determination for Ukrainians, Crimeans or anyone else. It is to expand the empire and steal other people’s resources while crying crocodile tears about the victims of your enemies. It’s a bit rich for a gangster state like the USA, which illegally invaded Iraq and many other countries, and BTW engaged in massive, napalm-backed population shifting in Vietnam, to start preaching to terrified Russians in Crimea when and whether they can exercise self determination and independence from people who sent their recent ancestors to concentration camps.
Indeed it is, but that has to come before the power that you supposedly want to join invades and is the power that holds and controls the referendum.
Yes that is very much the Russian position – the US has not acquired new territory since the end of the cold war (or WWII if I’m not remembering totally wrong).
The US is not the driving force on this, there is any number of eastern states in Europe who will tell you the exact same story.
The sanctions are hurting Western Powers more than Russia.
Petro Rouble anyone…???????
I try to post this link again, twice I posted it and it disappeared.
It is an article by F William Engdahl about the European self-inflicted energy Armageddon. It is not spam.
http://williamengdahl.com/englishNEO31August2022.php
All three versions of your comment got classified as spam by Disqus (probably because they include a link, even though that doesn’t always trip the spam filters) and I only just now saw them. I approved this one and deleted the previous iterations.
Thank you.
Yes, but only in the short term. In the long term, Russia will suffer hence the many Duma members now speaking up against Putin. Many of which will soon be found dead by mysteriously falling off balconies like it’s been happening lately.
Do you think Zelensky is ready to negotiate anything? from the beginning he didn’t want to negotiate and has killed anyone who would compromise or make a deal.
Why should Russia withdraw from Crimea or DPR/LPR, the peoples in those areas want nothing to do with corrupt Ukraine.
In addition shouldn’t the deal also include Nato reverting back to the 1990 members and stop it’s encroachment.
No I do not think he is willing to negotiate anything other than the total Russian withdrawal from all of Ukraine including Luhansk, Donetsk and Crimea – this being the case and the Russians only offering negotiations on Moscow terms there seems to be little reason to spend time trying to negotiate.
Can you name anyone that Zelenskyy has had killed? Just asking because I can name a good lot that have met with a sudden end in Russia after saying critical things about the SMO.
Because they invaded these places in violation of agreements that the Russians signed and because the cost of keeping these areas are higher than the value they represent.
Who invaded? the DPR/LPR people who wanted to separate and did not agree with the trajectory of Ukraine, they invaded? Russia invaded once it has concluded that Ukraine has violated the agreements.
Ah so you are in agreement that they shouldn’t negotiate unless Ukraine is granted everything they want, got it.
You can’t invade your own country.
My position is not relevant to this. I was outlining the positions of the Ukrainians and how the western leaders have very little incentive to push the Ukrainians to enter into negotiations.
But for the record I believe that the Russians need to completely leave Ukraine before the west should consider lifting sanctions – we did not apply sanctions for 8 years following the annexation of Crimea only to lift them as a reward to Putin for invading Ukraine.
Doing so would massively increase the likelihood that China would take back Taiwan and many other nations would carry out similar land grabs in the following chaos.
> You can’t invade your own country.
Great to hear. I think the west will lift its sanctions least they find better alternative, too bad they don’t want to touch nuclear energy with an 11-foot pole. The sanctions lifted will not be “a reward” to Russia, but rather a sigh of defeat that you cannot sanction countries you don’t like. Seems that sanctions at least now are a double-edge sword.
> Doing so would massively increase the likelihood that China would take back Taiwan and many other nations would carry out similar land grabs in the following chaos.
I agree with you here, but I think China would still take back Taiwan, whether we like it or not. China is using the Ukraine Invasion as a guide and building/modifying upon it to suit their needs.
Why?
It does not matter what we try to justify lifting the sanctions on, what matters is that it is a sign of defeat and that by itself would be enough for others to take advantage – so no basis for lifting the sanctions short of actual defeat – do you think that the west is defeated?
I also think that there is a serious risk of that – the point being that lifting the sanctions would make it a near certainty while keeping them on would make it somewhat less likely though far from a non issue.
Maybe a really cold winter will put an end to this mess. Nothing like freezing in the dark with nothing to eat to bring people to their senses. Or perhaps Russia will tire of fighting with the gloves ON and take them OFF. It could end VERY quickly in that scenario, one way or another.
Winter and darkness will affect both sides however, Ukraine is fighting for necessity and the other for Putin’s ego. Let’s see Who quits first.
Russia fights with gloves on? Lol.
If you are talking about not following rules, Ukraine can reciprocate.
Very good point on NATO rollback. Maybe NATO roll back and Viktor Yanukovych back as president, with Nazis out of government, sanctions on Russia lifted and Crimea election to chose its future. The 2014 coup cannot be undone. Perhaps an outline of a possible peace accord. EXCEPT FOR THE BAD OFFICES OF Zeleensky…… And what do with large area of Russian current occupation… And all the spilt blood…???????? Someone needs to win, or crush the other side.
You and your diplomacy.
Russia wants all. That’s not diplomacy. Russia violated the Minsk Agreement after violating the Budapest Memorandum. That got us here. Part of a long coming plan to establish a corridor to Crimea and to take as much land as possible for profit. Dont be so naive.
Yes Russia, and Russia only, was obligated to follow the Minsk Agreement and the Budapest Memorandum. And there was no encroachment or no coup or no sanctions or no war games on Russia’s borders. Nothing. Just the second coming of Hitler. But close your eyes and history starts in February of 2022 in Don’s fairy tale world.
And you can stay in the Past catering to Putin’s paranoia. Ukraine is a free country and can have alliances with any foreign country it wants. Encroachment? I think now we know why, Russia cannot be trusted. They go Hitler on anyone who won’t be part of their team.
And once again you have nothing, so you downplay Russia’s legitimate security concerns as Putin’s paranoia. How can one argue with you if you refuse to acknowledge the obvious by just ignoring the last 30 years? If the same circumstances would have happened on my country’s borders, my country would have reacted in a way that would have made Russia’s incursion into Ukraine look like a Boy Scout jamboree. And it is my country that is willing to sacrifice Ukraine to destroy Russia which you continue to cheer on while chastises me for wanting diplomacy.
Whatever happened to simple common sense and decency, people with a sense of responsibility? These people are mad, they are lunatics, how else can one explain such bizarre actions? They don’t even hide their madness, they act as if it is normal.
Good riddance to this brain-dead idea. The Western allies have been continuously shooting themselves in the foot with sanctions, “going green”, this among other things.
Nothing wrong with going green. Sanctions are stupid.
It depends on how going green happens. if it’s forced that’s dumb.
You could say that climate change is forcing a green agenda
What moron came up with this idea?
WOW… Did they really capitulate so quickly after all the Bravado & Bluster.. I am waiting to see what shoe falls next!!!!!!!
I agree with the plan to tax windfall profits and send back to households. However pushing a peace deal and ending the proxy war should also be included.
The event`s leading up to the war in Ukraine just show`s you how the E.U Political Elite are under the HEEL of the Americans , if they had the gut`s they could have prevented the war , instead they will follow the Americans ORDERS even if it means trashing their own Economies and putting millions of their citizens in poverty , just to extend the life of the failing U.S EMPIRE.
Our Treasury Department is in the hands of this woman who first had no clue about the severity of inflation and has now dreamed this price control cap on international oil.
Its is a double edged sword in which Russia will win and Europe will loose regardless.
If Russia sells at a lower price, their volume of sales will increase. If Russia does not sell, their volume will decrease but the price will rise.
Classic Left:
“You followed the rules we set out, you broke no laws, and you made money from it? That’s bad! We’ll take the money! But if you have LOST money instead because of our new rules, we wouldn’t give you any. It only goes one way.”
————
When supply is reduced, in this case energy is reduced because of EU decisions, then those who still sell the supply will make more money thanks to the price increase. That means they have more money with which to produce more of the product. And it means other people can get into the business because prices are now so high that they’d make a profit, which they didn’t before. There’s also more money to invest in research on how to produce more, and more efficiently.
But if you take away the extra money, then you don’t get more supply.
Putin must enjoy watching the idiots on the other side, grasping for straw after the child fell down the well.
Neoliberal economics, they deregulated the industry and are making big profits now, that is what it is all about. The deregulation is a boomerang it is coming back to hurt national economies, which is natural someone had to lose to make the profits for the industry possible.
Short term Oil price elasticity is roughly 1:20. A 1% change in supply or demand results in a 20% change in price.
About 100million barrels a day are produced/demanded at current prices. Remove 3% of supply and BAM 60% price increase.
That 1:20 ratio was for the pre-corona period. It may have changed, but as a rule of thumb useful. Also, demand curve is not a straight line – but as rough approximation thr 1:20 works.
Russia has already told them that no “capping” customer would get any Russian gas. See also Sahra Weigenhart’s comment to the German Parliament on stupidity!!
10% inflation for all of the west, 85% profit windfall for Russian gas. How are those sanctions going? Our politicians are simple minded fools who will break the backs of the people they represent to they can help Ukrainian Nazi’s.
What are these European leaders smoking? You can’t will the price of something lower; that’s fantasy. Idiotic fantasy.
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/markets-by-sector/precious-metals/gold/the-new-world-alternative-order/
The New World–Alternative Order. Martin Armstrong.