Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov on Tuesday openly offered Ukraine as a venue to test NATO weapons against Russia in an online conversation with the director of the Atlantic Council’s Eurasia Center.
Reznikov said that Ukraine “is essentially a testing ground” for the advanced weaponry the US and its allies are pouring into the country. “Many weapons are now getting tested in the field in the real conditions of the battle against the Russian Army, which has plenty of modern systems of its own,” he said.
The Ukrainian military chief made the offer in a fresh pitch for more Western arms. “We are interested in testing modern systems in the fight against the enemy and we are inviting arms manufacturers to test the new products here,” he said.
One weapons system that is getting its first use on the battlefield in Ukraine is the Polish Krab artillery system that was provided by Warsaw. “So, I think for our partners in Poland, in the United States, France, or Germany, it’s a good chance to test the equipment. So, give us the tools. We will finish the job and you will have all the new information,” Reznikov said.
The Western response to the war in Ukraine has been a boon for US arms makers, who are making money sending weapons into the war zone, replenishing NATO stockpiles, and selling arms to European countries that have decided to boost military spending.
Kyiv has been asking for more advanced arms than it has been sending, including F-15 and F-16 fighter jets. Ukrainian pilots would need to be trained to fly the US aircraft, and the House version of the National Defense Authorization Act includes $100 million to go towards that training, although the massive spending bill has not yet been finalized.
And the NATO weapons will be market tested when they are sold off by corrupt Ukrainian brokers on the dark market. Even if it means selling them off to Russian buyers who will then test them on the Ukrainian battle ground. Maybe that is what Reznikov meant in making the offer.
You have no idea what you are talking about. There is no evidence that Ukrainians have sold any weapons. Rather, they are using them to kill the Russian invaders.
It would surprising if US weapons shipped to Ukraine weren’t making their way onto the black market.
Ukraine had a reputation for corruption and for black market arms deals long before this war, and the fact OF the war creates circumstances under which it’s easier for weapons to disappear without a reliable accounting of where they went. “Yes, we fired our entire quota of shells today rather than loading half that quota in the back of a truck and selling ammo and the truck to some guy for a fat stack of cash. Oh, by the way, one of our trucks got blown up.”
Even assuming an absence of corruption at the regime level — and that would be a foolish assumption — all armies of any size hemorrhage gear into black markets even in peacetime. In wartime, even more so.
In other words, you don’t know a thing about Ukraine, but decided to draw a conclusion based upon a vague “reputation” multiplied by an assumption. Thanks for your contribution. ;o)
There is zero evidence that any weapons from NATO have ended up on the black market. If the Russians had that evidence they would certainly publish it – yet their propaganda is conspicuous by the complete absence of any supporting evidence.
This should hardly surprise – there is a strong level of patriotic commitment in Ukraine, grown even stronger as Russian atrocities have become known. No doubt there are Ukrainians who might like to profit from the war, but they will have great difficulty in escaping the scrutiny of those that do not. All Ukrainians understand that these NATO weapons are vital to their survival.
I know that Ukraine is a country, and that there is corruption in every country.
I know that Transparency International’s corruption index scores Ukraine at 42 on a scale of 0-100, where higher is better.
I know that the US government has a habit of throwing billions of dollars in cash and goods in various directions, both domestically and abroad, without very much accountability for where that money and those goods end up. See, for example, the pandemic “Paycheck Protection Program,” in which as much as 75% of the expenditures ended up taken in frauds and errors.
I know that in war, stuff disappears and shows up in places other than where it supposedly went. I’ve watched that happen personally.
Do I have “evidence” of any particular black market transaction in the weapons the US is sending to Ukraine? No, I do not — nor did I claim to.
But if none of that stuff is ending up on the black market, it will be the first time in history in any country that it hasn’t. And I do know enough about Ukraine to know that its government, its armed forces, and its population is not comprised 100% of saints and angels.
Wow, so yet more vague “reputation” multiplied by “assumptions”. and that is your only contribution to the debate. Jeez…
If the Russians had any evidence at all of NATO weapons ending up on the black market, they would publish it, to back up their propaganda. We can be quite sure therefore that they have none. As I wrote above, anyone who wants to sell these would have to get past many patriotic Ukrainians who know that they are vital to the survival of their country. No doubt it will happen sooner or later, but so far there is no reason to think it has.
” it will be the first time in history in any country that it hasn’t”
Yet another of your sweeping assumptions with no support, but no, things don’t always end up on the black market.
Logic’s no more your strong suit than history is, is it?
Logic’s no more your strong suit than history is, is it?
I’ve explained the (rather obvious) flaws in logic your posts. If you disagree, feel free to say why.
You’ve explained nothing. You’ve just whined that it’s unfair to notice that corruption exists.
Liar. I explained in detail why your “logic” was lacking. I pointed out firstly that there is zero evidence that any weapons from NATO have ended up on the black market. If the Russians had that evidence they would certainly publish it – yet their propaganda is conspicuous by the complete absence of any supporting evidence.
I also pointed out the difficulty that any venal Ukrainian would have in diverting NATO weapons, since its widely known how important they are to Ukraine’s survival. There is a strong level of patriotic commitment in Ukraine, grown even stronger as Russian atrocities have become known.
You haven’t attempted to answer any of these points. If you feel you can, then post your argument. Or, just write abusive replies as you are doing – it makes it obvious to any reader that you can’t think of anything else to write.
Yes, it’s true that if you argue with something I didn’t say, my “logic” will be lacking in response to your points. All I said is that it would be surprising if US/NATO weapons shipped to Ukraine WEREN’T ending up on the black market.
Between 2013 and 2017, the Small Arms Survey estimates 300,000 small arms alone disappearing into the black market from Ukraine. Do you think all illicit arms traffic suddenly, magically stopped on February 24, since when weapons of all sorts have been flooding into a country at war?
Black markets are resistant to propaganda about “strong levels of patriotic commitment.” Those who traffic in them as a matter of course are interested in profits, not in some particular regime’s victory or defeat. And in a country full of refugees, conscripts, enemy soldiers, etc., there will also be plenty of people who have to decide whether they’d rather have a heavy machine gun or enough money to keep a roof over their head and food in their belly.
“If the Russians had that evidence they would certainly publish it”
What, like this?
I can’t force you to live in the real world instead of the fairy tale world you choose to occupy (like the Russian hasbara-equivalent crew in these comment threats). But I don’t have to pretend with you, either.
For readers who may be taken in by Thomas Knapp’s reliance on fake Kremlin propaganda, the RT site he refers to was debunked within a couple of days:
https://www.newsweek.com/misleading-posts-russia-ukraine-weapons-smuggling-propaganda-newsweek-fact-check-1725107
Hi Thomas, thank you for ceasing your merely abusive posts and attempting to make an argument.
You are trying to draw an analogy between black market trade in small-arms with trade in NATO supplied heavy weapons. No, the former does not provide any support at all for the latter. There is a world of difference between them.
You then tried to inform readers that the Russians have provided evidence of NATO arms being offered on the black market, but your information is just fake Kremlin propaganda – see below. Only the naïve would be fooled by it.
As I wrote above, if the Russians did have such evidence they would surely publish it. The fact that they have not (as well as their peddling of obviously fake “evidence”) shows that it is just not happening, for the reasons I outlined above.
I can’t force you to live in the real world instead of the fairy tale world you choose to occupy (like the Russian hasbara-equivalent crew in these comment threads). But I don’t have to pretend with you, either.
“The Western instigation of the war in Ukraine has been a boon for US arms makers, who are making money sending weapons into the war zone, replenishing NATO stockpiles, and selling arms to European countries that have decided to boost military spending.”
Fixed
Great Zeus. We are NOT “pouring in advanced weaponry”; overwhelmingly, the EU is providing soviet-era junk to ukraine (in exchange for the US and German promise to “backfill” their “generosity” for free), and the US is scouring it’s warehouses for old, near expired munitions in order to justify placing new orders for new stuff. HIMARS is not “new”, nor “advanced”; it’s just a multiple launch rocket system that has been in use for over 35 years (the launcher, not necessarily the truck its mounted on) updated periodically for improved guidance systems. The only thing “new” about the Krab is the chassis; otherwise, it’s just another 155mm howitzer, less sophisticated than the German supplied Pzh 2000, which, as it’s name implies, is already 22 years old.
I know the overweight, poorly conditioned, limp wristed fanboys in government, NGOs, and the media are all getting woodies salivating over things that go “Boom”, but they have no clue what they are talking or writing about.
You have an interesting writing style Javy… Perhaps you do already write but if not, you would do well writing political commentary on such events… though, I should add, you may have offended some of our gay readers/posters…
Hah. Thanks!
Ah, yes, “send us more Wunnderwaffen”, the never-ending refrain. This is why they lost the war – relying on NATO weapons and training – not to mention the basic military balance between Ukraine and Russia.
The oligarchs that have controlled Ukraine for the last 30 years have impoverished the country. The country essentially lives off its Soviet time infrastructure. Millions of Ukrainians have been forced to seek jobs abroad. Ukrainian women work as sex slaves in Europe. Thus, it makes sense that the oligarchy now wants Ukrainian men to be slaughtered as guinea pigs for Western arms manufacturers or as test subjects for Pentagon biochemical experiments.
Right! This is incredible, advertising their eagerness to use their own population for guinea pigs in a A-level killing test with Russia. Forget Adolf & the Band, these are your New and Improved Nazis.
Lavrov offers the United States as a testing ground for Russian weapons.
Lavrov is very generous, isn’t he?…
Of course, “battle tested” is a selling point. If you can show your weapons systems taking out Russian equipment and personnel it is a definite plus.
I wonder if Capitalism can survive nuclear winter?…. Ya know, reaping in the profits during apocalyptic warfare?!…
I guess we’d better enjoy global warming while we can, Donna!
Little tiny cockroach capitalists. Now that’s a thought.
Best Alex realize now that you ain’t a-gonna win an argument with Thomas 😉