With US officials blaming recent rocket fire in Iraq on “Iranian proxies,” the national security advisers were pushing hard again to attack Iran. President Trump rejected the proposals, according to officials familiar with the situation.
Trump told officials that he didn’t want to attack Iran in the middle of the coronavirus pandemic, believing it would make the US look bad. Iran is one of three nations hardest hit by the virus.
Iran’s struggle with coronavirus is at least in part because US-imposed sanctions are making it hard for them to import medicine and equipment. Having the US attacking them outright over unproven allegations of rocket attacks likely would’ve made them look worse.
While some were presenting this as a “shift” for Trump, in practice he has repeatedly resisted calls for reckless escalation against Iran, objecting to actions that would kill too many people. While he’s wanted sanctions and general hostility, Trump has stopped short of starting any huge wars with Iran.
The idea being to let the most vulnerable people in Iran die from lack of medicines and drugs to fight the virus because of sanctions and then attack a very weakened nation. The US is a ghoul that has no honour and no inhibitions when it comes to murdering whole nations.
In such times when we have bern asked to isolate — we need to ramp up compassion. Give me ugly survivalism any time. I cannot stand the bureaucratic barbarism with supposedly human intentions.
So true ,dear heart, however I am a firm believer in “karma” and know that our bad actions towards others will return to haunt America and our people. I wish we could stop our lawmakers from taking these stupid and bad actions.Hopefully “they” will suffer the most.
There is a behavioral/psychological foundation to Karma. It is analogous to Greek Nemesis.
The arrogance and the utter belief in their God-omnipotence, result in some people not having enough sense to take basic precaution. For as long as it was the matter of mere money, the system they rigged took care of them, making them feel invincible.
Like Hillary Clinton, being oblivious to using her e-mail with no regard to computer viruses, today, the same folks may believe they are immune to real virus. Then it was Russia’s fault, now China’s. Always some other culprit. Vietnam, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Iran, Venezuela , Cuba, whoever. Never to contemplate that it could be our fault. There is nothing we could improve.
In re “karma”…read Twains short story…”The Bad Little Boy”…his opinion on trust in “karma” for justice. How’s Cheney doing? Kissinger?
Oh, and whatever Clinton did “wrong” with emails, is common, and is occurring now in the current administration.
If Karma were executed immediately, and always in this world, you might have a point. What was it someone on this site said — “If Karma worked, Lindsey Graham would be in a Gulag.” Karma has demonstrated itself in my life, I can see many of its results, good and bad, for some of the things I have done. The point is, Karma is not immediate in its effects. That according to the third of its three laws:
1. You reap what you sow.
2. You reap more than you sow.
3. You reap later than you sow.
Look at the state of the world. The only explanation I can come up with is that we have empowered the violence of the state, and is coming back to us. Keep that in mind next time you ask the state to “do something.” The results are always messed up, not because the state’s leaders are Republicans, but because they are violent, and violence is their only tool.
So, this karma thing has been in effect for a long time. How’s it working out ? A system of law, at least has a method of justice. Whether man implements it, remains to be seen.
I wasn’t suggesting to not have any enforceable law. In a voluntaryist society, you could set up or support any law enforcement agency you wished to. In order to avoid violating the non-aggression principle, it would have to, at a minimum:
1. Not be able to enforce a monopoly on its role as a law enforcement agency.
2. Not be able to force anyone to subsidize (i.e. through, effectively, taxation) its activities.
Even if I were an absolute pacifist, and held that even retaliatory violence were never appropriate, I would consider this system morally superior to our current system of states, precisely because they could not force me to be a partner to the violence.
Having tried to get a community of 60 homes to maintain a private road…just no.
So on this private road, say there are 5 separate sheriff companies, separate court systems, jails. Each sheriff company spends it’s time trying to put competing sheriffs in their jails, until one survivor prevails. Water districts ?
Perhaps you could link me to a volunteerism community model in the modern age ?
“Having tried to get a community of 60 homes to maintain a private road…just no.
It may be quite difficult in the current system of things. But the current system is not anything close to a free market. As a rough ballpark figure, I would say the current system is at least 45% socialist, 45% fascist, and no more than 10% free market. Since all of us have been conditioned our entire lives to accept this system as a given, with our only choices politically being between different candidates who wish to be given the power to rule us, yes, I can see why you might have reservations about creating a system where nobody rules. We’ve all been taught in our “public” schools that the state is necessary, a force for good, even, in some ways, a deity. In my opinion, however, we’ve got the wrong god.
“Perhaps you could link me to a volunteerism community model in the modern age ?”
Sorry, no modern state would allow such a system to exist.
I thought it would be impossible too. Even after reading Rothbard and accepting his moral arguments for a stateless society, I just didn’t see how it could work. Then I read a delightful little book named “The Market for Liberty” by Morris and Linda Tannehill. It explained how market processes could provide roads, a justice system, a law enforcement system, even “national defense.” It is worth reading if you ever have the time or inclination (not expecting you to, you generally have to be searching for something like that to really want to investigate).
Basically, private law enforcement agencies would have an economic incentive to not war with each other. They would settle disputes through arbitration, thus, eliminating the need for a “Supreme Court.” As Rothbard points out, such “wars” between law enforcement agencies would be bad for business, to say the least, so they would have an incentive to settle disputes peacefully. And, it is my belief that those who seek a truly honest living, even in law enforcement or a justice system, are, generally speaking, on at least as high a moral plane as those who now seek government “service.”
Another point we should consider is that abolition of the state would not occur in a moral vacuum, it would only occur if a majority of people accepted the non-aggression principle. What voluntaryists are seeking goes far beyond simply politics, we are advocating people take seriously the idea of self-restraint with regard to the use of violence.
Wars will not end until the state ends, as warfare (violating the rights of people in other nations) is what gives the state the excuse and support for violating the rights of people at home.
Just because we have always done things the same way, does not mean that that way is necessarily the best way. At one time, the idea of a Constitutional Republic was considered quite radical and “out there on the fringe.” At one time, the idea of the Earth not being flat was considered, not only wrong, but a heresy punishable by death. Sometimes you have to think outside the box.
I will check out the book. I am curious about the libertarian plan. I worked libertarian. My own buisness, bid jobs within the market, won or loss on performance. I didn’t fare well, I am a craftsman forced to be a business man, not the other way around.
The problem, is the map with the big arrow that says..”You are here”….in order to reign in militancy, it requires a large inspection and enforcement polity to do so. The inspection systems were a casualty of the Iraq war, they were devastated. Perhaps this was part of the plan.
“Perhaps this was part of the plan.”
I don’t know. It almost does seem to be planned, doesn’t it?
Yes, because if the Iraq inspection program was allowed to work, it might have spread. Maybe ultimately to the US itself. Can’t have that now.
This is why I believe the MIC likes a nuclear North Korea. More “defense” spending in the long run. So, they keep up sanctions to pressure “enemies” to arm themselves.
“Maybe ultimately to the US itself.”
I can’t even imagine the federal government allowing such a thing. They do everything in their power to keep even American citizens in the dark about such things.
Yes, it is difficult to imagine. As you said “only when a majority of people believe in the non aggression principle”..I believe that to be true already, maybe always has been.
The problem is the tools…we continue to mass produce tools of aggression, and destroy systems which lead to peace ..the inspection systems.
Naturally it is in the MICs interest to discredit, upend, and defund any inspection or non aggression type treaties. Can’t have that. In the case of Iraq, they blew it out of the water.
Another way of describing “karma” is “what goes around comes around”. Some people believe that if you wish bad things on other people it will come back on you threefold.
“Some people believe that if you wish bad things on other people it will come back on you threefold.”
Not sure of the exact multiplication factor, but, I agree with the basic idea that wishes for personal ill only reflect back on the wisher.
But sometimes the wisher gets so frustrated with the people he/she is wishing ill will towards, that he/she is just blowing off steam. I have personally wished ill on people like Pompeo or Bolton but in reality I have a hard time killing insects.
I didn’t say I was innocent. Many times I have wished, if not outright ill on politicians, or even our military, at the very least failure. War brings out the worst in people, even those who oppose it.
“Hopefully ‘they’ will suffer the most.”
History has shown that some despots, such as Mussolini or Nicolae Ceaușescu, did sort of get what was coming to them. However, history has also shown that whatever Karma there is, good or bad, is not predominantly executed in this world.
What? It is because we do not want to look bad? Not because any thought of war against country that did nothing to us is disgusting?
Or is it because we are in the middle (or beginning) of an fast spreading epidemic? And economy cratering? And people suddenly out of work with nothing to live on? Or sailors on ships in danger of infection? Or submarines? Or bases around the world? Or incompetence that is severely rationing testing?
But now even with the clever by half game of no-test-no corona, just by the STRICTEST guideline of testing all those who have bern in the direct contact with a confirmed case — cases are jumping.
Still games go on — one of such mandatory test of a Ryker inmate resulted in positive test.
What now? By the established criteria — all those in his housing unit SHOULD HAVE BEEN TESTED. But no, they were only CHECKED FOR SYMPTOMS — and isolated if having symptoms. Those without symptoms, of course could be positive — and spread the infection to other inmates and staff. With all these “conservative” testing — number of cases in NYC just jumped by 1,000 in a matter of hours.
Well, there are cynical perspectives that embrace the idea that COVID-19 may be useful final solution to the non-productives of society.
People with loved ones in the hospital should pay special attention to the IV.
I’ve only seen it done in hospices; deny the IV, allow supplemental O2, and the elderly euthanize themselves with dehydration, unwilling or unable to drink normally.
I do not like cynicism and do not get along with cynics too well.
But I never close my eyes to pretend not to see.
It is what it is.
It may have nothing to do with evil intentions, but everything with smug stupidity of people used to a world in which bureaucracies survive by promoting stupid and pliable.
It is mighty easy now to be “cool” and “advanced”, to declare that testing is overrated, that we actually know what we are doing.
Why ascribe things to evil intent when stupidity, rigidity, adherence to bureaucratic cover your behind norms is the motto of the day.
And if there is a plan under “do not any crisis go to waste”, we will see it soon enough.
Read Naomi Klein’s book “Shock Doctrine”. It describes very clearly how a crisis can be taken advantage of.
Also, “Crisis and Leviathan” by Robert Higgs. It demonstrates how big government emerged by obtaining power to fix “crises,” real or imagined, the real ones often being the result of government actions to fix previous crises. And how, once the crisis is perceived as over, the government never relinquishes even half of the power it obtained.
Cynicism is a kind of closing of eyes; just the opposite extreme of denial.
From “This isn’t happening”, to, “We can’t do anything.”
Either way, what’s actually denied is the need and responsibility to act.
Good for Trump. His max pressure campaign was diplomatic and economic, not military. Also alarmingly destructive, but still a far better alternative than a shooting war.
A shooting war with Iran would ruin the U.S.A. politically and economically right now. The Mullahs in Iran know that too as do America’s frenemies.
Iranian public unrest is such that, the Theocracy may see advantage in a unifying war with a home turf advantage. Increasing polarization between Theocracy supporters and everyone else mirrors the rest of the world where ruling elites are finding their prerogatives increasingly at odds with their Peoples.
Self-interest. Iran demonstrated that they can kill thousands of U.S. serviceman in a short period of time.
Actually, the initial protection for Iran against U.S. attack was Pepe Escobar’s N-Option, the quadrillion dollar oil derivatives bubble recently unwound into stock market collapse.
Until a year ago, the wealthy of the world were not positioned for that bubble to end. Once they were, they detonated a controlled financial reset.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/financial-n-option-will-settle-trumps-oil-war/5699905
The War Party would call that ‘sacrifice’ demanding retaliation and retribution.
Islam isn’t the only political system to game martyrdom. Few things whip up war frenzy like a few seemingly undeserved casualties.
The U.S. is only selectively casualty-shy. Its just that, post WWII, few wars have ignited full popular pro-war fury.
There was opposition to the Korean War, even at the dawn of the Cold War. The Vietnam War was an even more inexplicable, unjustifiable war. Add to that, Americans had no particular antipathy towards Koreans or Vietnamese,
‘Getting back’ at Iran for the Iran hostage crisis in a legit war, would not displease too many Americans – as long as Iran clearly started it, could be clearly tarred the bad guy, with no hope of Russian or Chinese support.
https://www.americanforeignrelations.com/A-D/Dissent-in-Wars-The-korean-and-vietnam-wars.html
“Good for Trump. His max pressure campaign was diplomatic and economic, not military. Also alarmingly destructive, but still a far better alternative than a shooting war.”
Right. “Good for Trump”. Just as long as he’s killing diplomatically and economically. Personally, I’d rather it be quick instead of lingering.
Yup, or how about jes leave em alone ?
‘Cause the Israel lobby and geopolitical lobby are in agreement that Iran must be tamed by the MIC.
Better ask, why not disband the globalist military industrial complex instead, and so not be a bother to Iran or anyone else, including the American people.
‘Cause, Iran can at least fight back and hope to win with minimum casualties under an economic war, its living culture and artifacts allowed to live.
Iran today is a far better place than Iraq.
Iraq is now both a place of quick death as well as lingering death. Even its place as an ancient society in world culture is irreversibly maimed by ethnic cleansing, vandalism and plundering.
Except one thing, those sanctions are finally enforced by ? Yup, the US military. If a ship tries to sail past the sanctions, there is the US military to confiscate, or sink it. But, it is not a shooting war, right ?
The US is truly an evil empire, and I hope I live long enough to see Amerika get its well-deserved comeuppance.
Iran and the U.K. seized each-other’s tankers; no shooting war.
The U.K started that by seizing an Iranian tanker allegedly heading for Syria off Gibraltar; the Iranians responded by seizing a U.K. tanker off the Strait of Hormuz.
Any U.S. interceptions of Iran-bound vessels would happen well out of retaliatory range, and, such ships are not military vessels but civilian cargo vessels.
Smuggling into Iran is done overland. The Chinese even have a direct rail link to Tehran.
Not surprisingly, the COVID-19 outbreak in Qoms at least in Western media has been linked to a Chinese solar energy project in the area using Chinese workers.
Yes, “seized”, as in, under threat of destruction.
Well, actually the crew is threatened with death if they don’t surrender the vessel.
Destroying an unarmed civilian tanker is completely optional in that process for most modern armed forces.
Also kind of tough to do cheaply without really trying hard even with modern armed forces.
So you think having Iranians dying due to lack of essential medicines due to sanctions and Iran’s public services cut because the country can’t sell it’s oil means Trump is doing good things? The US imposes sanctions in hopes that the peoples’ suffering will become so unbearable they will rise up and overthrow the government and install one friendly to the US so the US can go in and take their resources. The Iranian people are too smart to fall for that, just like Cuba never fell for it during the past 60 years.
China has a direct rail link to Tehran and can send any volume of aid requested by the Iranian government by private or government channels. A large private donation was directed by Ali Baba’s Jack Ma to the EU, for example.
Doubtless this large private donation was prompted behind closed doors, as the EU could hardly be seen as requiring medical aid from the Chinese government.The EU countries have been cutting back on medical capacity for over a decade to save money.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-jack-ma-idUSKBN2110KA
With the epidemic winding down in China, but the production of medical gear still in overdrive, China has lots to spare. The Iranian Supreme Leader even commented that U.S. offers of aid were “strange” and gave assurances that Iran has sufficient medical capacity. Obviously, Iran want sanctions lifted. The elites know COVID-19 is a hybrid hoax; real virus, but just another vector for a cold.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-iran/khamenei-says-u-s-offer-to-help-iran-fight-coronavirus-is-strange-idUSKBN21909Y?il=0
A sanctions war is far preferable to a hot shooting war, There is no politically viable path of peace; imposing one, would just land Trump another ‘Gate scandal to go with Russiagate and Ukrainegate.
Re-establishing normal diplomatic and trade relations with Iran would be far preferable, but not an electable platform plank. Trump delivers democracy, ironically enough.;
Main Street America has never let go the 1978 Iran hostage crisis.
The majority of U.S./Western elites want nothing less than the return of Iran into subservient Western orbit.
Making [genuine] peace with Iran is beyond any POTUS, and, personalizing the crisis with the sitting President, obscures the popular and elite political reality. The JCPOA was an elite decision by a divided elite.
Although at last polling, 42% of Americans supported the JCPOA, a hard core of 29% opposed the JCPOA, and another 28% claimed they ‘didn’t know’.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-poll/less-than-one-in-three-americans-support-u-s-pullout-from-iran-deal-idUSKBN1I92RA
In other words, 57% of Americans do not oppose Trump’s actions against Iran, likely provided there is no shooting war. Far better to make the economic case for normalizing Iran relations, to help the world economy recover.
“Main Street America has never let go the 1978 Iran hostage crisis.”
Exactly. And that’s basically where their knowledge of our history with Iran starts. To them there is no such thing as blowback. And sadly, “Main Street America” stretches from coast to coast.
American’s are smart enough to understand blowback.
Just vain enough to embrace exceptionalism.
Blowback isn’t supposed to happen, at least in any meaningful way, under exceptionalism.
“A sanctions war is far preferable to a hot shooting war”
Sanctions are not an alternative to a shooting war, sanctions are precursors to a shooting war. As the saying, possibly falsely attributed to Bastiat, goes: “When goods don’t cross borders, Soldiers will”.
That’s old-school, pre-nuke geopolitics.
As long as Iran can call on Russia and China for help, the U.S. won’t shoot first. Probably. The cost would be too high. Human lives aren’t the problem; its all that pricey hardware.
Still on the table is whether or not Iran can buy Russian S-400s. Any real threat of war sees a rush delivery from Moscow to Tehran.
In our mostly prosperous democracies, successive Great Leaders however popularly elected for a time, often leave in or facing electoral tar and feathers.
This is true even in good times, which may have seemed bad at the time, but in retro become part of the drama of a golden era. Canada’s late Pierre Trudeau is a good example of such a revered elected political leader.
So, believing Iran sanctions are about regime change is a hard sell to some geopolitical watchers, as hard a sell as believing the Iranian people are uniformly happy with Supreme Leader Khamenei, unelected since 4 June, 1989.
Keeping Iran down, has geopolitical implications, and, the Theocracy does a pretty good job of keeping Iran down.
Sanctions seem to do more to support and enforce Iranian government misrule. Iran’s development is a crawl compared to Iranian potential as the far more genuine and independent democracy it was in 1953 under popularly elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh.
That is the era Iranians long to return to. A real democracy under a respectable statesman. Not the Iran of the Theocracy or the puppet Iran of the CIA, sanctions or not.
I had the impression that Congress forbade Trump from attacking Iran without a new authorization. I also maintain that the Constitution does not require the President’s signature for this kind of legislation. Comments?
It’s not so much that the Constitution doesn’t require the president’s signature for that kind of legislation, as it is that the Constitution doesn’t require that kind of legislation. Attacking anyone without a declaration of war from Congress is illegal.
Extralegal; illegal implies there is some sort of defined offense and remedy in legislation. There is not, in this case.
Its an important distinction.
What constitution…?
The late great Joe Sobran:
“Don’t worry ladies and gentlemen, the powers that be will never allow a little thing like the Constitution prevent them from doing whatever they wish.”
Proven many times over.
Trump’s instincts are good.. These advisers are pushing their own agendas – not for things in the National interest and definitely not in Trump’s. He doesn’t want to be GW Bush II.
But first you have to put yourself in a position where you look compassionate by deciding not to attack Iran. You drop out of the JCPOA, impose draconian sanctions that kills thousands, surround them with military assets, assassinate their beloved general and threaten to obliterate them for saying they will retaliate against our belligerence. No different then saying he’s doing a good job of fighting the virus after almost two months of idiotic moronic incoherent ramblings that did nothing but stoke fear.
Yes, this is the formula that always worked. Stupid populace always had no choice but to patriotically cheer.
Things have changed. As incoherent as our politics is, and as idiotic as the politicians appear to be — they know darn well that wars are not something they should contemplate starting.
Doo not let any good crisis go to waste. Their motto.
And this is a big one. Our leaders decided to make the world has stop turning. And have made plans. It will become clearer as the time goes on.
1. How would he attack Iran without getting over 1,000 U.S. serviceman killed, is he and the people around him seriously that stupid, were they planning to use nukes, or are they lying?
2. He is already killing Iranians with sanctions.
As long as “reckless escalation” can be avoided so can global war. But Coivd-19 is an unwelcome complication in the already-doomed trend.
https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/
America has to fight Israel’s wars. The Zionists on capital hill will not rest till the last american is dead
Not necessarily, Pervez. DJT despises Nutty&Yahoo. Just last year, when Nutty&Yahoo talked about attacking Iran and getting the US to join in, DJT told him outright that if he launched an attack on Iran, he’d be on his own.
Needless to say, Nutty&Yahoo didn’t attack Iran. We DON’T have to fight Israel’s wars .. DJT had already told Nutty&Yahoo last year – that if Israel did attack Iran, the US wouldn’t come to their aid.
What makes you think DJT despises Nutty&Yahoo? I’ve seen many photos of them looking extremely buddy-buddy. And Trump’s actions regarding Israel’s illegal settlements and moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem certainly do not indicate any dislike.
“certainly do not indicate any dislike.”
Hard to tell, because most of Trump’s words and actions are lies of a sort. Perhaps to Trump, Netanyahu is more like a sugar daddy for his campaign, than a buddy, and Trump is simply trying to please him to get the campaign funds (through Adelson). They give the other what they wish, and both are satisfied.
Real or phony friendship doesn’t matter. Same results.
Washington has determined it’s easier to let nature and sanctions act as frontline soldiers.
Yea, but, it’s another missed oppurtunity to hasten the rapture. Bibi and Miky probably aren’t to happy about this.
Give Pompeo enough time and he will persuade Trump.
I hope you’e wrong, but Pompeo is a filthy warmonger.
Wouldn’t is suck if a country, like China, that supplies the US a lot of stuff started withholding that stuff like, I don’t know, crucial parts for ventilators? And then they were able to withhold enough to cause mass suffering of the people with the crazy idea that if the people suffered enough they would rise up against their government?
This is just Trump being worried about his image – like the massive narcissist he is. It does *not* reflect any basic intention to not start a war with Iran. Like Obama, Trump just doesn’t want to be *blamed* for starting the war. That’s not the same thing as not *wanting* to start a war.
Wait until Iran is more infected, then attack? Also, everybody is so worried about themselves and their families now, it would be a good time to destroy Iran which is the last country to be taken out in that 7 countries in 5 years plan exposed by Gen. Wesley Clark years ago.
The US is truly an evil empire.
“believing it would make the US look bad”
The US already looks bad, Mr. Trump. Even in supposedly allied countries, our actions have turned ambivalence into active antipathy.
Canadians used to love America. Not so much anymore.
paisely, I am not sure if the 1943 in your disqus screen name is the year you were born, but, if it is, congratulations and more power to you for making it this far. Hope I can live as long.
77 is young. 🙂
Canada has no shortage of Iranophobes, though its more Irano-disdain than a phobia. The Canadian embassy in Iran has been closed for years to appease Canada’s Israel lobby.
Its like how when Russia was communist during the Cold War, their governing system was used as a pretext to hate Russia.
Russia is now a democracy, and Russophobia still exists. Ditto Sinophobia, though China is now capitalist. An independent Iran regardless of political system not in Western orbit will always be on the outs with any Five Eyes country..
Canadian smugness and sanctimony echoes U.S. faux progressivism.
You kind of have to wonder if the entire US government isn’t insane.
“You kind of have to wonder if the entire US government isn’t insane.”
I wouldn’t exactly call it insanity, it is more like drug addiction. The drug is called “power” and it is more addictive than heroin or nicotine. The more you ingest, the more you need in the next fix. Probably going cold turkey (leaving office) is quite difficult for most of them. But, after they quit, they always have large sums of money (kind of like methadone) as compensation, as well as having the ear of current, active policymakers.