A global pandemic of the coronavirus is hitting nations the world over, and facing a challenge unprecedented in recent history, officials are falling back on wartime tactics, and particularly rhetoric, with promises of grand emergency measures to try to keep things under control.
Emergency measures are mostly in the form of travel control, banning flights to and from certain places. There has been talks of mobilizing militaries, in practice efforts are centered on enforcing quarantines that were already declared. Deeper measures as yet don’t seem to be happening.
France’s President Macron typified the rhetoric of the hour, saying that national greatness meant “women and men able to put the collective interest above all,” while encouraging solidarity and fraternity.
In the US too this state of emergency is mostly just travel bans, though the Pentagon has halted domestic travel beyond local areas for both troops and their dependents. The US is also scaling back involvement in European operations to come.
Those operations, a multinational exercise, was meant to be the biggest US involvement there in decades. Officials are now citing “health protection” as a reason to dial back involvement.
For the US, the military isn’t exactly in a position to lead by example. In Afghanistan, the Pentagon is conceding that there are US troops with symptoms, but none have been tested. The reason why is simple: the Pentagon doesn’t have tests to administer.
Lots of info coming out, including the CDC’s admission of mis-attributed deaths, that point to the US as the source. Also seeing info pointing to this being 5 different strains and it being a bio-weapon. The last few days, you can’t find Lysol, bleach, toilet paper…most cleaning and health products actually are gone off the shelves all over town. Stores are being cleaned out of everything. I’m sure it’s the same way in Denver.
People are hoarding like it’s the zombie apocalypse or something. Not a good situation and the longer the Government pretends that money matters more than the tax slaves that generate it, we’ll be busy sending sick people all over town from one end to another and everywhere in between, just to get checked out and tested.
We have, arguably, the absolutely least qualified regime in place in order to deal with a pandemic. FFS, Pence, the guy in charge of the “response” invests money in gay conversion therapy and probably believes the earth is 6k years old and mankind rode dinosaurs into battle…it truly insults the word response…
liveload,,now is not the time to play politics, however since you started, Pence was fighting to halt HIV, which was and still is a mainly gay and drug user disease, but also one which can cross over and lead to mass infection over time,,,but you make fun of him over that,,you are sad.
Yes, completely agree, let us not play politics. And in the spirit of our non-partisan public interest, Liveload is absolutely correct in pointing out the sheer demonstrable incompetence of the system on many levels. And grand rhetoric notwithstanding โ I do not rear any REAL concern for out of control spreading of the disease.
To see the scramble of local, state, FDA and CDC officials โ is enough to understand that behind the bureaucratic language there is no substance. Their hearts may in the right place, but it will take some real organizational skills, authority and leadership to stop the fumbling.
That is, if they do not substitute incompetence for virtue, and just shrug off the mounting problem. And declare that democracies do that โ people are free to be ignorant, free to die. I can easily imagine some psychopaths thinking it beneficial to rid the country of too many retirees.
Our only real defense lies in two oceans that separate us from the rest of the world. When it comes to our ability to handle anything past some snow days, I do not see it.
Why o we have such a huge mortality from a flue? Why still about 15,000 deaths from AIDS annually? If it is not in the media, it does not exist.
“Pence was fighting to halt HIV, which was and still is a mainly gay and drug user disease, but also one which can cross over and lead to mass infection over time,,,but you make fun of him over that,,you are sad.”
But he didn’t “make fun of him over that”. This is what he said:
“Pence, the guy in charge of the “response” invests money in gay conversion therapy and probably believes the earth is 6k years old and mankind rode dinosaurs into battle”
Sounds pretty accurate to me.
wars, are you just off the bong???,,Bro’? (Sounds like it). ๐
And did you stop taking your memory pills? I told you I use a one hitter, not a bong, on several occasions now. Funny how a stoner like me can remember sh*t like that hey?
wars, You are pot head, your claim to fame, I guess, but I still love ya Bro’. ๐
The reason I openly talk about my marijuana use is to prove that one can live a normal life while enjoying the euphoric feeling one gets from the marijuana high. I’ve been smoking/eating marijuana for 47 years and amazingly have been able to work and retire after 33 years with the same company, buy and pay off my house and continue to compete in powerlifting competitions at the age of 65(master 6 in powerlifting). Maybe some day you will open your mind a little bit.
wars, The amount of people that use drugs in body building and weight lifting is legendary, and they swear by it right up to the end. I do have a very open mind, in fact probably to my detriment, but killing the unborn or deluding myself with drugs or supporting endless wars has no place in my life. Love and forgiveness and light, not dark, are my main goals.
“The amount of people that use drugs in body building and weight lifting is legendary, and they swear by it right up to the end.”
I was talking about POT not steroids. My point was you can live a normal life if you are a regular user of marijuana but that obviously went over your head. And, no, you do not have an open mind so don’t concern yourself with thinking that might be to your “detriment”. Your mind is closed and deluded with superstitions.
wars,,,,,,,OH,,GeeZ!!,,Ya got’s me! ๐ (I through in some extra commas for brother of wonders, Zarhan.:)
“master 6 in powerlifting”
That’s impressive. Possibly due to your mild yet passionate demeanor, as well as the characteristic we both share (small where it counts), I always visualized you as physically unimposing. Live and learn. I am quite envious, as I am somewhat of a wimp, physically.
I am physically unimposing. I lift in the 148lb class. But thanks for the kind words.
(small where it counts) Haha, you remembered that!!
Conversion therapy helps against AIDS? Also, Jay, worldwide AIDS stopped being the gay plague a very, very long time ago. It is practically endemic in some parts of Africa.
Zarhan,,I disagree, you attempt to downplay the deadly threat.
Just the opposite. Compare the rates of infection yourself.
Zarhan, you are mistaken.
Yeah, ok, Jay Jay. Because you “know”. Data. You need to back up what you say with data. We can sit here going yes it is, no it isn’t all day. You can blithely ignore facts all you want and insult me all you want (my “disguisting” agenda and all), but not one person takes you seriously when you behave like a small child.
Zarhan, Certain people I just can’t waste my time on, and you are one. Stay healthy.
From what I can tell, most of your time is wasted generating and/or repeating irrelevant nonsense. But same to you. And I hope one day you they find the cure for double-comma-nia.
OK. Data. Take China. Even though daily new cases dropped to single digits โ it is not over until it is over. But with numbers stabilizing, here is the real statistics. Of the approximately 80,000 cases and nearly 3,500 dead, there are still about 5,000 in critical condition. Assume most of them will die, this brings death rate to approximately 10%.
When the cases peak in Europe and US โ- we may find out that it is worse. Because prevention basically did not happened.
Doctor in Congress informed both parties, staff and administration that the estimated infection in US is between 50 and 120 MILLION. Where the numbers are coming from โ do not know. But with the testing being still rationed or unavailable โ the projections indicate a โherd immunityโ by default. This will wipe out potentially millions from retirement rolls.
If you do not like what I say โ take it up with Congress please.
“Of the approximately 80,000 cases and nearly 3,500 dead, there are still about 5,000 in critical condition. Assume most of them will die, this brings death rate to approximately 10%.”
Except that the actual number of cases in that number set is probably 320,000, not 80,000, since about 80% of COVID-19 cases are asymptomatic or sub-clinical.
Who the heck are you arguing with now, and about what? What part of “I don’t disagree with most of what you say” did you not understand? You’re literally arguing with yourself now, because I never talked about any of this stuff. Please calm down and go find someone else who actually disagrees with you about all this, because guess what, I don’t give a fig about your stupid country’s stupid government at this point, and I’m starting to come to the conclusion that you’re at least as stupid as the stupidest person there. None of this has got swee f.a. to do with me here in Canada. As I told you before. Your assumptions are not facts, by the way. Death rates are going to look high in places with inadequate testing, like the US. And in places with high numbers of elderly population, like Italy. Go chew on that if you must but leave me alone. I don’t know what you think you’re accomplishing. I’m honestly baffled.
Check the data on AIDS โbut you will have to be a patient researcher to waddle through it. AIDS deaths annually in US are still at about highest levels they have been for years. And still VAST majority of victims are gay, drugs users or both. These deaths are shocking, and the public health system has failed these people. By focusing on political correctness, public health failed to keep up awareness of the dangers of contracting disease. Just the opposite, pharmaceutical industry markets miracle pills that are supposed to protect a person from contracting AIDS from AIDS positive people. Needless to say, it was marketed before criteria was set for testing of its effectiveness. The results of the test may be still a year away.
The deaths from flu are a disgrace for this country. Absolute disgrace. SARS and COVID-19 may have killed thousands in China, but we have an absolute record in flue. Between 30,000-100,000 annually, resulting in population lifespan in US decreasing.
Where exactly did I argue that few people die of AIDS or flu. Don’t assume that because Jay Jay says something that it actually makes sense or that he is responding to anything I actually said. When someone talked about conversion therapy he claimed this was about combatting AIDS. Clearly it isn’t. He said it’s mainly gay people. Across the world (not the US) it no longer is. It’s not a gay disease. If AIDS has not been sufficiently studied or funded it is NOT out of political correctness, quite the opposite: it’s that people continue to associate it with marginalized groups.
You did not have to. You are continuously minimizing, downplaying, โdebunkingโ. Nobody is wise here, nobody knows what is happening and what will happen.
With AIDS, you practically consigned it to this normal thing being endemic in Africa.
Not planning to digress, but the strain of AIDS in Africa and one we live with here are not same. But when media wants to downplay something, it falls into memory hole.
The catastrophic numbers of new cases annually and high death rate have been accepted for as long as desperate people are paying high price for medicine that does not save lives, and now even for false security of a drug that supposedly shields one from infection. Once money is made, all the heartbreaking stories are no more of interest. We need more EDUCATION to prevent infections. Even schools that teach human development are minimizing the catastrophic number by focusing on positives, such as medications.
Since we are just learning about COVID-19 as things are evolving โ all observations are just that. Observations. No need for us to criticize each other with authority.
FFS Bianca. You need to stop taking Jay’s bait. You are taking his interpretations of my words as though they are my own. At no time have I downplayed AIDS. My reference to it being ENDEMIC in parts of Africa was directly in response to HIS assertion that it is a GAY PLAGUE. You’ll note that I also said it doesn’t get the funding it deserves precisely because of the continued perceived gayness of it, i.e. when I said “marginalized”… My whole point is that AIDS is a pandemic. FFS, I repeat, FFS, that is not “downplaying.” If you can so misread something as basic as this, if you cannot be bothered to read carefully, I’m sorry but continuing this dialogue is pointless. Read the rest of the thread. Read my responses to him and his to mine. And If you think there’s no need to “criticize” someone like Jay, but you’re going to criticize me for it, you are a hypocrite as well as lacking reading comprehension skills. At least today. Note that I am not an essentialist. I do not accuse you of being an idiot, or in the pay of someone, or having a “disgusting agenda” just because you happen to be talking out of your bloody arse, Today. I don’t expect an apology from you either as I could not give a fig about your opinion, Today. If we should ever cross paths again, I will not hold this against you and I hope you will do the same.
I have done no such thing. You’ve misunderstood my reply. Saying it’s endemic is anything but minimizing. My full response to you seems to be waiting moderation.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/03/02/how-mike-pence-made-indianas-hiv-outbreak-worse-118648
Wow, that went right over my head. You were actually implying that Pence’s concern was the spread of HIV when he advocated gay conversion therapy? I thought you were talking about them as separate issues as if he had done something else to fight the spread of HIV besides gay conversion therapy advocacy. Anyway, WOW, that is funny. People like Pence think gays and drug addicts deserve HIV.
wars, And people like you think unborn babies deserve death,,,go figure.
Such a master deflector. How ever will wars overcome this choice example of your rapier-like wit?
I know when you’re desperate and can’t respond to my comment by addressing what I said. Probably because you think like Pence and believe gays and drug users deserve HIV also. Same bullshit every time.
Pence is no more directing our response than Trump is making battle plans. The qualified individuals appointed to actually do the work are gonna be the ones making the decision. That said I in no way think the US prepared anywhere near well enough, no reason that the CDC should have been standing in the way of private firms making test kits, not to mention the reports on the poor quality of the kits issued, in very small numbers to begin with.
Neither Trump nor Pence can do much but play pandemic theatre. Even members of the Trump base are probably profiteering off useless n-95 masks.
The U.S. military and CDC have epidemic plans on paper; whether or not they are backed up with discrete resources is another matter.
The Dems would have placed America under a Conronavirus Czar and established a medical police state under Hilary from the first sneeze in China. this appears that staged.
COVID-19 is a hybrid hoax; a real illness, but no more serious than a bad flu. Admittedly, unusual for a cold.
however, has anyone seen comparable influenza and rhinovirus numbers? They aren’t even testing for the other bugs that kill but no-one panics over.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
I’ve not read or heard of any credible scientists claiming this is anything other than a naturally occuring virus, regardless of where it started. Numbers alone make it fairly obvious it started in China though. Anyway, what would be the point of spreading a virus that you can’t actually control and which would inevitably put the deployer and their loved ones at risk too? Unless you’re going to go full conspiracy theory and say there’s a secret vaccine and a patent pending too. Not saying there’s no world where that couldn’t happen etc., but you need a heck of a lot more evidence than “misattributed deaths” (share the link please) and “info” (which you don’t even link to or even name the source), to convince anyone who’s not already wearing a tin foil hat. If you’re referring to the post by GlobalResearch.ca, they’re a conspiracy website. They take 2 + 2 and come up with 10,067. “Some people might have died of the wrong thing, China accused US of starting it; therefore China is correct.”
France helped China establish its BSL-4 lab; did you really thing that as American hegemony declined, older actors wouldn’t step up?
There’s a huge shadow finance war going on behind all this, for which the trade wars are only the tip of an iceberg. Britain wasn’t the only empire upon whom the sun set and in the darkness, established a financial empire steeped in dark money..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spider%27s_Web:_Britain%27s_Second_Empire
https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/film-review-spiders-web-britains-second-empire/
“did you really thing that as American hegemony declined, older actors wouldn’t step up?” Does turning me into a straw man really help you somehow? Where did I say anything at all about economics or American hegemony? Is this even relevant to my response?
I’d rather keep the conspiracy theory angle open to interpretation so as to discourage any potential 5G warfare games.
Clearly you are talking with yourself. Enjoy.
Declaring conspiracy theory doesn’t work as a social thought-control meme anymore.
Too many so-called conspiracy theories have turned out to be conspiracy fact.
Trump is the only political actor who has been acting sensibly in response to the COVID-19 hybrid hoax.
Trump has tightened borders and limited flights first to China then Europe. Otherwise, COVID-19 would be out of control in the U.S..
Also, Trump has accurately dismissed COVID-19 as not serious, while obligingly going through pandemic theatre.
This is all a captured alt-news/MSM hybrid hoax.
Colds and flus kill thousands every year. If we tried to ID every influenza case and its seasonal spread and death rate, the numbers would be far scarier than COVID-19.
But we don’t normally panic over the flu, let alone a cold. This time around, COVID-19 allowed a convenient financial reset favoring the super rich. In particular, the quadrillion dollar oil derivatives bubble preventing war with Iran has been removed by the oil price/oil industry collapse.
Quadrillions of elite financial losses translated into trillions of stock market losses. Income and job losses to follow.
Pressure for war with Iran, even if only a proxy war to drive them from Iraq, seems likely as well or the globalist money stays withdrawn until the U.S. cries ‘uncle’ and acts like the Dumb Giant enforcer the globalists want America to be. For them, not Americans.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/financial-n-option-will-settle-trumps-oil-war/5699905
“Trump is the only political actor who has been acting sensibly in response to the COVID-19 hybrid hoax.”
I don’t know man. Maybe, if he had only kept his mouth shut. But this doesn’t sound sensible:
Trump January 20:”I know more about viruses than anyone”
January 22: โWe have it totally under control. Itโs one person coming in from China. Itโs going to be just fine.โ
February 2: โWe pretty much shut it down coming in from China.โ
February 24: โThe Coronavirus is very much under control in the USAโฆ Stock Market starting to look very good to me!โ
February 25: โCDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.โ
February 25: โI think that’s a problem thatโs going to go awayโฆ They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, weโre very close to a vaccine.โ
February 26: โThe 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.โ
February 26: โWe’re going very substantially down, not up.โ
February 27: โOne day itโs like a miracle, it will disappear.โ
February 28: โWe’re ordering a lot of supplies. We’re ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn’t be ordering unless it was something like this. But we’re ordering a lot of different elements of medical.โ
March 2: โYou take a solid flu vaccine, you don’t think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?โ
March 2: โA lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and theyโre happening very rapidly.โ
March 4: โIf we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work โ some of them go to work, but they get better.โ
March 5: โI NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.โ
March 5: โThe United Statesโฆ has, as of now, only 129 casesโฆ and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!โ
March 6: โI think weโre doing a really good job in this country at keeping it downโฆ a tremendous job at keeping it down.โ
March 6: โAnybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. Theyโre there. And the tests are beautifulโฆ. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.โ
March 6: โI like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand itโฆ Every one of these doctors said, โHow do you know so much about this?โ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.โ
March 6: โI don’t need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn’t our fault.โ
March 8: โWe have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.โ
March 9: โThis blindsided the world.โ
March 13: “National emergency, two big words”
Just what exactly was Trump supposed to do? He needs to prevent a panic while making sure a hostile and inconsistent U.S. government bureaucracy and its Deep State do their job and not drop another Katrina over a cold.
Surely you can sense the undercurrent of what’s going on; America and the West could become medical police states for the ‘duration of the emergency’.
COVID-19 is a new fifth strain of coronavirus some researchers believe could become endemic to the population, joining the other four coronavirus strains presently circulating.
A ‘duration of emergency’ could become a very unwelcome new normal.
The only 2016 candidate qualified in all ways, including moral integrity, to oversee a medical crisis as President was Jill Stein.
A RINO Jeb or faux-Progressive Hiliarity as POTUS would probably have already jumped on-script from the first sniffle out of China and imposed martial law.
Trump… will deliver whatever he figures will get him re-elected. If enough of The People seem to want a panic, ugh.
Though he probably suspects going police state is not a smart or electable move, Trump will be wary of adding COVID-19-Gate to Russia-Gate and Ukraine-Gate.
Trump is a bumbling idiot, and totally unqualified to be president.
To be fair, in my opinion, NOBODY is qualified to be president as the office’s powers are currently constituted, as nobody is qualified to rule anybody. It’s just that Trump demonstrates superlatively that the empire has no clothes. His idiocy and buffoonery put to lie the whole mystique of state power. The idea that some people have the right to rule others, whether from the doctrine of the Divine Right of Kings, or the religion of majority rule, is shown to be folly by this incompetent boob.
You should love Trump for that. Worst. Liar. Ever.
Obama would have charmed us into full state lockdown by now.
BTW, President Trump is also the deciding factor as to whether America wakes up some tomorrow soon a medical police state over COVID-19.
The Dem faux-ies will be screaming for one; the RINOS… well who knows.
You and wars r u.s. might want to consider padding your stashes. Although those logistics may end up being surprisingly resilient, prices may skyrocket.
You may very well be correct. The Pelosis and Schumers waiting in the wings are just itching to get a taste of Democratic fascism. And the “liberal” sheep are lining up to be slaughtered.
The economic clampdowns are already scaring the Hell out of me, as any suppression of economic activity will make my continued existence impossible. I was just able to make it without a recession, and now, we will have a full scale depression worse than the 1930s. Oh well, how did Tears for Fears put it:
Help me make the most Of freedom and of pleasure
Nothing ever lasts forever
Everybody wants to rule the world
I share your concerns, though not in all the details. The closest I ever came to wanting to rule the world was winning at CIV (old video game, now into its sixth or seventh incarnation apparently).
Living a more organic lifestyle really helped clear some personal health issues.
Unfortunately, fresh food, even from industrial ag, requires a functioning distribution chain that is… was? national and international in scope both for variety and low prices.
Knowing COVID-19 is a hybrid-hoax, is limited comfort when one’s little world is trampled by spooked COVID-19 lemmings herded by the global finance machine.
Good luck, my friend. I have made many friends on this site, all united by our desire to see an end to American Empire. I am glad you have a way of surviving. My skill set requires a free, unencumbered international economy in order for me to make a living. I see that coming to an abrupt end now. It is at least conceivable that I could receive a Social Security check and Medicare in a few years, but, although the checks will always go out, in a year or two they may be worthless when our inflationary Federal Reserve Ponzi scheme bubble bursts for its final time.
The international economy ending? No.
Reset bigly? Hell ya. You’ll be fine, though.
The Game never ends. Don’t be fooled into quitting early, and certainly, play careful out there.
“You and wars r u.s. might want to consider padding your stashes. Although those logistics may end up being surprisingly resilient, prices may skyrocket.”
I provide for myself. ๐
Seriously dude?
His first comment: “I know more about the virus than anyone”.
How about acting like a fucking adult?
… Well, actually America is all about youth culture; being an adult just doesn’t sell. The more visible the popular stage, the more this is true. Its more important to sound some kind of youthful cool.
This is true even on, especially on, the political stage. Appeal to youth sells. All our TV and movie adults have their appropriate adult moments as the straight man – but when they are the star, its with some sort of appeal to youth. One-liner or monologue, the starring adult has to be teen cool.
https://news.stanford.edu/news/2014/november/youthful-book-harrison-111914.html
Acting like an adult, does not get anyone elected POTUS. Jill Stein was totally an adult, and a real MD. Yet she got almost no votes, not even protest votes.
Even Obama was like, junior high prep school cool, His supposed doctrine was “Don’t do stupid sh*t”, a deliberate and winning appeal to hip infantilization.
For a smart dude you go out of your way to defend anything Trump does. Appealing to the youth is he? That is scary crazy.
…. As if every kid doesn’t at some point want to be a manners-optional billionaire rich playboy who can become President or whatever else he wants to be in life.
Answering to no-one outside fair laws and just order, including a jumped-up unelected shadow government. This is what is things may be coming down to. The ability to be free if you can pay for it, under a system of high social mobility, is the last barrier to removing the inherent right to liberty.
Or playgirl, for that matter, though Paris Hilton ran up against the age ceiling that’s more of a barrier to women than men.
Trump is POTUS and still the only game in town.
Trump is jumped-up middle class, and probably knows it. All rich folks may shortly be as helpless as the most nobles were to their king’s inner court.
America is a nuclear-armed tinderbox with more guns than people. No-one is qualified to run the place as figurehead-in-chief, but someone will.
“…. As if every kid doesn’t at some point want to be a manners-optional billionaire rich playboy who can become President or whatever else he wants to be in life.”
My point was that if he was indeed trying to appeal to the youth, his comments certainly weren’t a way of doing so. His comments should have been calming and reassuring instead of more narcissistic campaign rhetoric. Maybe the youth of fellow billionaires would found his comments appealing but under the circumstances, even they might have thought they were disturbingly out of touch.
… Kids aren’t that delicate these days.
Its a viral thing to cough on produce and upload the vid. They were already licking the ice cream and putting it back on shelves before COVID-19.
This is a worldwide, or at least, Anglo-Western phenomenon. Not everyone is doing it, but everyone is watching.
https://www.fox13news.com/news/virginia-police-investigating-after-kids-cough-on-produce-post-video-to-social-media
Have you seen the gory video games and dark themes being played nowadays, or the incredibly rude teen movies given to the young masses to socialize them, or the rampant culture of youth bullying?
Out of touch and a little insensitive,… sure, but that’s kids. But wow. Hopefully they are nonetheless inclined to be antiwar.
Most probably know COVID-19 doesn’t often infect children. They can learn useful stuff not at school but TV shows like the Today Show.
https://www.today.com/health/coronavirus-sparing-children-experts-simply-do-not-understand-why-t175156
“bio-weapon”
Watch the 1994 movie adaptation of Stephen King’s book “The Stand.” Even if this particular virus did not originate in a government bio-weapons lab, it is only a matter of time before a deadly strain will escape from one. As long as there are bio-technology Dr. Strangeloves around, we are, frankly, doomed.
At least France has a decent health system and also is NOT closing its borders. Trump’s decision to stop all flights to the USA from the EU Schengen zone without even mentioning to any European leaders is hardly the solidarity we all need now.
At this point in time, France has more cases and deaths from C-19 than the US. Europe has been declared the new epicenter for the virus, closing travel and isolating are the best strategies.
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
anai, Prez. Trump was correct in restricting entry to the USA, just like Cuomo was correct in locking down New Rochelle with troop to stop a mass spread of the disease. As for “solidarity”, I would say it is time the DC Ghouls, the CDC, and the MIC, embrace “solidarity” with the USA citizen and put them first over all their military spending and war making,,because all those $trillions are NOT doing us any good now, or ever! As for the CDC,,Prez. needs to clean house there since they have shown just how incompetent and comfortable they have become!! But Biden could certainly do better, right?? LOL!!
The only thing the travel restrictions will do is kill more people with economic drag. “Community spread” had already started occurring before we even knew the virus existed.
Here’s how to tell if Trump seriously believes travel/movement restrictions reduce the spread of the disease: Has he halted deportations?
Thomas, I know you support open borders, or no borders, so no citizenship,,so I have to ignore what you write above. You do support and reward lawlessness., clearly.
Except that people seeking asylum are not breaking any laws, and people who arrived as small children had no choice in the matter and are likewise not law breakers.
Zarhan, you are wrong, you have an agenda that is disgusting and a threat to law and order in our nation.
Way to project and ignore facts. Jay, seriously, get over yourself. Threats to law and order in your nation are things like Gitmo and the persecution of folks like Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning.
Zarhan, Assange Yes, the others,,you can sob for them, bud! ๐
Wow. Pro-Assange, anti-Manning. ‘Nuff said. Your mind is an example of the quantum state: opposing ideas exist together simultaneously. In order to have law and order, you need to know what the laws are first.
Jay wouldn’t have a problem with Manning if it weren’t for her being transgender. Jay’s sky fairy didn’t make Chelsea a woman so Jay doesn’t think Chelsea is worthy of his support.
“so Jay doesn’t think Chelsea is worthy of his support.”
It matters little what Jay thinks of Chelsea, as her friend, Kelly Wright, was able to organize a Go Fund Me campaign to raise over $250,000.00 to cover her court imposed fines, as well as over $50,000.00 to cover her living expenses, all in a matter of several days. The people have spoken: Chelsea is a hero.
I wouldn’t be quite so harsh; within a country, at least, travel should remain free.
“You do support and reward lawlessness., clearly.”
If the law were de jure open borders, as it would be in a free society, how would open borders be “lawlessness?”
When the herd panics, rules are needed.
Internal travel should be free. Someone has to keep the shelves stocked.
However, international cross-border travel of persons can be limited with minimal economic damage.
“However, international cross-border travel of persons can be limited with minimal economic damage.”
International cross-border travel of persons can’t be limited, period.
But theatrically pretending to limit it does economic damage.
… Um, welll… illegal smuggling is a lucrative business not done just out of goodness of heart, and police theatre is also profitable for the right people…
You’re right though; those with the resources, can always cross a ‘closed’ border, or get others across.
Past a certain point, its all about divvying the spoils of corruption. Migrants tend to be an exploited demographic. The only thing sadder, is that some might be better off so-exploited than remaining where they are.
As far as white market activity goes, a lot of business travel can be done by teleconferencing, and tourism is optional.
however, this panic totally kills the hospitality industry, one of the last redoubts of small business.
Closing of borders means less transmission. Less movement of people is good. Let us not confuse politics, virtue signaling, and ideologies with epidemic. Anyone who absolutely does not need to travel, should not.
Trump just shows how we do it in democracies. We look at what other people do to contain the spread of the disease and criticize or praise not on the basis of merit, but on whether they are our friends. We have not figured out testing. Trump boldly declared a lie โ that everybody can be tested. The lie was deliberate. And now that Pelosi has announced Family friendly legislation that has so many caveats and holes โ why thiis does not make me feel better?
While I agree on a personal level we should not travel, it’s mainly because there’s nowhere to go to have a good time or do business anymore. If you go to a hotel and end up quarantined because one person in your hotel tested positive, what is the point of going? Fair enough. But stopping all travel? If only it were so simple. Closing all borders everywhere is simply impossible and any attempt to do so typically fails and / or makes things worse by disrupting supply chains which includes health and medical. Then there are your own citizens to think about. People emigrating. I could understand if this were ebola with its 80 or 90 percent kill rate. Assuming that testing (such as it is, and the amount of testing going is wildly variable by country–the UK just up and decided to stop) is basically only happening for people with mild and severe symptoms to begin with, missing people who don’t even know or just suspect they have it and never know, there is no way this is significantly more dangerous than flu, and we don’t close all borders for that, now, do we. They do it because they’ve dropped the ball so many times, spread misinformation so many times, they’ve run out of other ideas and need to be seen to be doing “something”. Even this border closure thing excepting UK and Ireland made zero sense whatsoever.
While I agree with you wholeheartedly that bureaucracy lies, and always covers up its failures. They need to be seen to do something โ mostly writing memos.
But the situation has overtaken them. They (I mean Europe and US) have ignored the threat for much too long. And were unprepared to do either of the response measures โ restrict travel and large gatherings, and do aggressive testing.
Having dropped the ball does not mean give up.
I wish you would stop comparing this epidemic with a flue. Flue is still here, it has not gone away. This is an additional highly contagious disease that will in short order overwhelm health care system. We do not have much excess capacity in hospitals, no surplus of doctors or nurses. Nor abundance of lab technicians. The repercussions to oneโs health from this virus are not known. It us to early to be optimistic.
In US we are STILL slow on travel restrictions, slow on social distancing, and scandalously slow on testing.
Let us take some common sense measures, before nitpicking about how things cannot be done perfectly. We must REDUCE the number of travel related incidence of spreading the virus. Do not give virus abundance of hosts to live on.
This does not mean we should prevent truckers from distributing merchandise nor commercial ships docking and unloading.
We need to restrict ALL travel that is not urgent or necessary. Young people may miss their gyms, but while they may survive the illness, they will pass the virus in elderly, who will not.
And if we cannot accept restrictions that are reasonable โ how are we going to deal with a true disaster of millions ill, with no one to take care of them?
Congressional doctors have briefed both parties, staff and administrators on the possibility if 50 to 120 MILLION people becoming infected.
I am tired of the arguments that if you cannot do something perfectly โ you should not do it at all. Yes, borders may be porous, and people cross them in foot every day. This dies not justify bringing in planeloads of people from areas with high rare of contagion and releasing them into densely populated urban areas.
We have just bailed out credit markets to the tune of 1.5 TRILLION DOLLARS (and how are we going to pay for this), while we have no clue how to provide income to people whose businesses will be shut down by the epidemic. We are disorganized, two left feet on every turn, and CLEARLY still rationing testing. The least we can do is to REDUCE the number of virus carriers coming into the country.
Bianca, I don’t fundamentally disagree with any of that, let me just add for clarity that I’m in Canada, in a city with a wopping 4 cases and they’ve decided to close all the schools, and I’m fine with that and pretty much anything else individual groups or the government decides to go with, because I have confidence that Canada’s past experience with SARS and its observations of China and Europe/US have informed their decisions. This has come as a shock but thankfully we had some time to prepare for it. I compare it to the flu because that’s (1) the best analogy available in terms of (a) presentation of symptoms and (b) typical outcomes on the whole, and (2) to give the conversation a grounded context. We have to be rational, logcial, and unemotional or else we make bad decisions; we miss the big picture and/or lose the plot in a blind panic. We see what happens when people are not given (or ignore) the best advice: they go out and hoard toilet paper, they wear masks giving them a false sense of security. Stopping “all travel” from Europe but not UK/Ireland is an example of a bad decision made off the cuff for no discernable reason and what I was mainly thinking of. Its not an either/or thing of open borders versus closed. For example, you can limit travel and quarantine everyone who comes in, if you think that’s feasible. Basically that whole conversation focuses people on fear of the outside and ignores the fact that “the killer’s already in the house”. People need to follow the right advice regardless and the public health system (such as it is in the US) needs to get on top of it domestically. That the US is so behind in testing and fired its epidemic task force in 2018 is indeed appalling. That Trump made so many errors in his public address is also indeed appalling. A pandemic might finally wake the US powers that be into actually realizing that a univeral health care system is not only preferable but necessary.
“In my imagination, closing of borders means less transmission.”
Fixed, no charge.
China: No problems once Hubei was mass-quarantined at high-panic.
Most newer infections in mainland China now traceable to international travel.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-toll-idUSKBN20W00Y
If everyone in Hubei was allowed to flee internationally, they would and take any flight to the U.S.A. and a shot at a U.S. hospital, locals be damned.
Its just the way people are with strangers in a perceived mortal emergency.
Italian health care system was top notch as well, doesn’t matter if its overwhelmed by the sheer number of those needing care…Only way to keep a health system from being overrun is to spread out the transition of the virus by effective isolation measures. Perhaps the movements online of people creating 3-d printed ventilators and other necessary tools will help extend limited resources, but containment is gonna cut down more on the deaths than top notch health systems that become over run simply by making sure those seriously ill can get treatment.
Italian health care top notch?
Not really. Italy’s been economically lacklustre for a while and that affected everything , including health care. Cuts and poor service and hygiene discipline going back a decade or more.
https://healthcare-in-europe.com/en/news/italy-s-healthcare-reform.html
Singapore, on the other hand, had not recorded a single death (so far, knock on wood).
https://wiki.sg/p/COVID-19:_Recovery_Patterns_in_Singapore_(2020)?fbclid=IwAR3rJ3E2GdQGJebR4TrxeCAUhPEeZ1qceQY8OnzikR7EsntJyM6exhC_wV4
People who complain about the preventative measures such as travel restrictions and proclaim the threat as a “media hoax to damage Trump” are basically saying they don’t care if old people and children with respiratory problems die as long as they personally aren’t inconvenienced. That’s fine if that’s what you believe, but have the balls to admit it, or you’re just a punk.
The public response of buying out the toilet paper may have been an overkill response, and the media hasn’t helped by hyping the danger to the average person (for people under 60, only 2/10ths of one percent chance of dying), but for vulnerable people the danger is real and competence is needed to keep that number down. China and South Korea did it right. The US will do it wrong, because that’s what the US does, as witness Katrina.
And as I mentioned before, the Orange Mophead hasn’t helped with his ignorant blather.
Trump is doing fine. Its the MSM and captured alt news that’s screwing things up.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/financial-n-option-will-settle-trumps-oil-war/5699905
Also remember Pepe Escobar’s N-Option against war with Iran? That’s just been popped.
Panic over a cold has given the pretext for a consolation financial reset against the middle class as quadrillions in oil derivatives once threatening the elites convert to trillions in stock market losses for retail investors.
This is how democracies do it? Briefing to Congress, both parties and staff by experts predicts between 50,000,000 to 120,000,000 infected. Where do the numbers come from? Given the still tightly controlled access to testing โ is this assuming the โherd vaccinationโ principle? Getting survivors vaccinated , while accepting death toll of 5-12 million? That would lighten up the balance sheets of retirement systems, social security, not to mention save insurance companies massive amounts of money spent on health care of elderly. There must be some math behind those numbers.
Canada’s CBC did a good but unusual debunk story back in 2012.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/flu-deaths-reality-check-1.1127442
Essentially, annual cold and flu deaths are statistically guestimated from a hodgepodge of actual flu deaths and related flu deaths for an estimate, say that 2000-8000 Canadians die of the flu every year.
The CDC is no different.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.
Notice, there are no comparable tests for rhinovirus or influenza strain deaths for comparative data with COVID-19. The panic is all COVID-19, for which there is no vaccine. But vaccines are only 60% effective, given than most who die of upper respiratory illness have pre-existing vulnerabilities.
Colds and flu are deadly, make no mistake, but we don’t panic over those nor should we.
The panic in China was so bad Xi had to isolate Hubei province to contain the bureaucratic ineptitude, then make a Big Dumb Giant King Canute show of containing a cold. That sort-of worked; insofar as outside Hubei, COVID-19 spread throughout the rest of China was limited.
Hopefully Trump will allow one of that nonsense to happen in the U.S..
Testing. Nancy Pelosi โ testing, testing, testing.
OK, here are official guidelines.
1. You have to contact your doctor.
2. Your doctor recommends testing.
3. Even if your doctor orders it โ it may not be honored by the health authorities or your hospital as you may not meet the criteria.
4. If you do not have your doctor, call your Health Department.
Remember, Urgent Care Clinics are NOT your doctor and they cannot take your sample and order testing.
Bottom line โ still very arbitrary in โcriteriaโ, as spread is within community.
People without a doctor will not have easy time convincing health officials. There, you will be tested IF you qualify to be hospitalized.
Nobody knows the spread among homeless.
Frack that. Vitamin D, vitamin C, zinc, Don’t do excess carbs and junk food.
Grade school hygiene; was hands, don’t touch eyes, nose or mouth.
A mask is only good for keeping your germs to yourself; these germ collectors must then be disposed of properly to avoid infecting others or yourself. An n-95 will NOT protect you reliably if you are healthy – that it would is one of the dirtier prepper myths allowing some to profiteer on surgical masks while screwing over the people who actually need them like medical and industrial workers.
If there’s a testing centre away from a hospital, that’s still dicey. Don’t go near crowds of potentially sick people.
That’s how Hubei lost it, with everyone with the sniffles flooding the hospitals and catching something from everyone else, whatever was to be caught.
Then they got sent home to spread more, because there weren’t enough tests or the tests were negative (but they had something, just a different cold).
Then the medical people got sick, dehydrating themselves and going hungry in biohazzard gear.
If you’re really paranoid you’ve got it and can’t beat it, self-quarantine have someone visit with a test kit or call an ambulance.
Does this mean that the US will not be sending another 20,000 troops and equipment to test Europe for the ability of its infrastructure to move military troops with tanks? It seemed that plans were for about 30,000 were to join in a NATO joint effort labeled Defending Europe?
Fracking stupid hybrid hoax. I hoped we [in North America) could duck this.
Hopefully now that the MSM has picked up on it, and not just a few captured alt news sites, people will stop panicking once they notice people are not dying in the streets and the shelves are being restocked.
No-one wants to catch a cold or flu, and COVID-19 is the cold that hits like the flu. However, the hype does not match the outcomes where there is no state panic.
Singapore has had 187 cases so far, no deaths. Age covers the usual spectrum of cold and flu sufferers.
https://wiki.sg/p/COVID-19:_Recovery_Patterns_in_Singapore_(2020)?fbclid=IwAR3rJ3E2GdQGJebR4TrxeCAUhPEeZ1qceQY8OnzikR7EsntJyM6exhC_wV4