In a surprise announcement late Sunday night, the White House Press Secretary released a statement that said, “Today, President Donald J. Trump spoke with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey by telephone. Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation in Northern Syria. The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in that operation, and the United States forces, having defeated the ISIS territorial ‘Caliphate,’ will no longer be in the immediate area.”
The statement does not make it clear if U.S. troops will fully withdraw from Syria or if they will just relocate. The statement also says, “Turkey will now be responsible for all ISIS fighters in the area captured over the past two years.”
The U.S.-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) said on Saturday that it would “not hesitate to turn any unprovoked attack by Turkey into an all-out war” to defend the region of northeast Syria that it controls.
The SDF responded to a threat by Turkish President Reccep Tayyip Erdogan, who said on Saturday that Turkey will soon launch an “air and ground military operation” in northeastern Syria and warned it could happen “as soon as today or tomorrow.” The SDF is led by the Syrian Kurdish Militia YPG, who the Turkish government considers to be a terrorist organization.
In August, Turkey and the U.S. agreed to create a safe zone in Kurdish controlled Syria along the Turkish border to settle some two million Syrian refugees. Part of the deal was to clear the area of all the Kurdish fighters, which Erdogan complains the U.S. military has failed to do.
Erdogan and President Trump also agreed to meet in Washington next month to discuss the issues with the safe zone in northeastern Syria.
Washington has always hoped to avoid a military confrontation between Turkey and the YPG. The shortsighted policy of arming and backing an enemy of Turkey so close to their border was bound to have dangerous consequences.
Cue, the cries of; How could you do that to the Kurds again? And they would have a point but I don’t know what else there is to do now but leave.
They should never have been arming anyone in Syria, not the Kurds and certainly not the rebels/AQ offshoots.
My question is what do the non-YPG Kurds think about sharing this land once again with the people they displaced? The YPG will probably scuttle away and hide in the hills someplace and continue their low level war, the rest of the Kurds left behind are going to have to live with the consequences and somehow either get along with these returning refugees, leave or fight them. What’s it going to be and who ends up in charge ultimately? Syria or Turkey? If it’s Syria then maybe they can at least give it a shot at getting along under the mutual protection of Assad like they had in the past. If Turkey is in charge, it’s going to be hell on Earth for the Kurds who are bound to be targets for reprisal from pretty much all sides.
“will no longer be in the immediate area.”
Ok, sure…there’s been several massive convoys of weapons in the past few weeks from the US to their pet terrorists…
More BS from the Empire of BS.
So far US Middle east policy has just had one criteria “it has to be in line with Netanyahu’s Israel policy”.
I get the impression that Sheldon Adelson & wife would prefer Pence/Pompeo/Haley running in 2020 election minus Trump. With Trump out of favour for funding he could now start retaliating against Adelson’s Israel agenda. NB… Israel supports YPG.
They suggest and support but do not decide.
If you mean Nikky Haley, who was just as much a ranter as was Bonkers Bolton was during G, W. Bush’s first term as POTUS, she and her parents are only naturalized US citizens, and Haley’s ineligible to run for President or Vice-President. The President and Vice-President MUST be native-born citizens and whose parents are US citizens.
As for Bibzy Nutty&Yahoo, he’s just about finished .. He’s been the longest sitting PM in Israel’s 71-year history. DJT recently dumped Nutty&Yahoo’s bosom buddy (Bonkers Bolton), which means he’s grown fed up with Nutty&Yahoo and his hyper warmongering.
I wish you were right but I think you are wrong about Haley’s eligibility to run for president. I can’t find anything that collaborates your story. To the contrary, there are plenty of articles speculating that she will eventually run with no mention of what you say.
Technically, she mayn’t run. But the US doesn’t really follow that rule.
Ted Cruz also couldn’t run but was allowed. Nor could Rubio. As with so many things, it’s the law (Constitution), but most Americans don’t understand that it’s being broken. We’re too stupid, ignorant, and apathetic.
“The President and Vice-President MUST be native-born citizens and whose parents are US citizens.”
Not according to the US Constitution.
It’s what “Natural Born Citizen” meant originally. Eileen is correct; the law has just been reinterpreted.
I can’t find it, but in one of the debates Cruz even acknowledged that if that were followed, then Cruz, Rubio, and Trump, all three, would be ineligible. I assume from that, Trump’s mother must have been British (Scottish), then naturalized-American.
Trump has recently raised a lot of money as a result of impeachment talk. So, he might not need Adelson as much this time.
Trump may be only a pawn is this stupid game but Adelson et al are mere bishops, who can die anytime. The “rulers” know the game is lost when even a loyal knight promotes itself to rook. Resignation is inevitable.
Knights are generally as useful as rooks, at least in the early game. It’s often easiest to surprise an opponent with a knight.
Regarding “rulers,” the 1% can only seem to direct events. They don’t have full control. They just influence directions.
As such, it should be possible for meager peasants to also influence directions.
I love Antiwar.com but I’ve been consistently disappointed with the anti-Rojava rhetoric. Rojava is possibly the greatest experiment in democracy going on today. If it wasn’t for the Kurds, Isis would not have been defeated as easily as they were, we would possibly still be fighting Isis although obviously it’s impossible to know. Turkey chooses to go after the Kurds for very little reason other than they hate the Kurds, and despite the fact that they have been our greatest allies in the war against Isis, Trump chooses to appease Turkey by looking the other way while Turkey marches in to slaughter the Kurds. Notice that Turkey was not nearly as enthusiastic about fighting Isis. This could be another Kurdish genocide, and it’s not in the interest of peace for the United States to look the other way and leave at this point. We should never have entangled ourselves in the Middle East in the first place, I agree, but the fact is that we’re there now, and the complicated situation means it’s not always in the interest of peace to hastily leave. The Turkish government has a history of genocide against the Kurds. Kurdish children are going to be slaughtered by Turkish bombs in the next few days, and as far as I’m concerned some of that blood is on Trumps hands. The Antiwar movement should not fall prey to the simplistic view of “withdrawing troops good, leaving them there bad.”
Do you work for the “Center for American Progress” ? I heard their lies and the lies of the YPG on NPR radio this morning. Guess what – if the YPG fights to “defend themselves” – they will be DEAD SOON. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. No more US troops in Syria. Your “SDF” is next – all going to DIE soon. The refugee crisis was caused by the SDF, the US, and the YPG. Your “ISIS prisoners” are FAKE. We know – and so do the Syrian people and the Russians.
No I don’t work for everyone not everyone who disagrees with you is part of some sort of conspiracy.
The Kurdish children you’re so worried about – their parents can move them out of the zone safely. If they choose to try and fight the Turkish army instead, then they don’t really love their children.
“the greatest experiment in democracy”
democracy by expelling everyone who does not agree
independence by complete dependence.
If you believe is hardcore socialism, then the Rojava is worthwhile. If you study history, you will realize it ends up trading one tyrant for another.
When would be a better time to leave?
Also, should the US declare war on Turkey if Turkey proceeds into Kurdish-held Syria? Wouldn’t more people die in a war with Turkey?
You appear to be comprehensively misinformed. Easy to understand considering the tsunami of competing narratives/bullsh*t.
THE SDF should never have been allowed to establish them selves in this region. the Syrian Arab Army should have cleaned this out 2 years ago.
Exactly. Especially because the Euphrates Valley is 100% Sunni Arab and the Kurds will never be accepted there.
In the west, multiculturalism is dogma, in the rest of the world, it results in conflict.
Yes, you would think US would get it eventually. But I am of opinion that existed in Turkey and elsewhere, that US intends to stay, and help Kurds lord over majority Arabs, treat rebellions as ISIS, encourage Arabs to flee, and essentially build another Israel — this time with Kurds being the masters.
But with Turkey not buying the idea of Kurdish state controlling its access to Middle East — and ready to fight US to prevent that — maintaining status quo became impossible.
Where does Turkey get the courage to challenge US? I think we get the idea.
Turkey said it thousands of times that it wants to restore Syrian territorial integrity, not stay. Once US is not a factor — and the constitutional conference goes forward — it is clear that this US/SDF controlled region will support Damascus government and vote accordingly.
More now then it would in the past — as now they know how dies it feel to be controlled by Kurds.
Sure, but for a tiny reason of US air force protection of “Kurdish” region.
Forgot several attempts of Syrian army crossing Euphrates and being bombed by US? Syrian Army made progress in Deir Azzor, but multiple US hits on Syrian forces, one including big loss of Russian contractors.
Arab population rebelled against Kurds — but it was labeled “resurgent ISIS”. Even though population in US/SDF area supports Damascus -/ there was no way under the Muddle East sun that US could have allowed Syrian snd Russian forces out them from there!
Turkey is another thing all together — but even there, games have bern played to dissuade Turkey from the idea of taking over. Until Turkey amassed troops.
“Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into Northern Syria,” the statement said, indicating the U.S. would be abandoning a promise to protect its Kurdish allies. “The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the ISIS territorial ‘Caliphate,’ will no longer be in the immediate area.”
So we’re moving aside and giving permission for another country to carry out an offensive in a sovereign country in which we are an uninvited guest. And we are leaving the IMMEDIATE AREA, not the country in which we are an uninvited guest.
It never did make sense for the stated reasons, wars. Always include the unstated Israel factor in your calculations. The Kurds were always just an Israeli placeholder in Syria’s oil rich east. We’ve been secretly selling that oil to Israel all along. Now that Turkey wants to step in and claim that oil is the biggest development. Damascus should be challenging this and I’m sure they will, with Russia’s help.
You are missing forest for the trees.
This is a coordinated action with Russia and Syria. Do you seriously believe that Turkey would get Russian advanced weaponry, build Russian nuclear power plants, and build new energy infrastructure jointly with Russia — without a mutual solid understanding of regional geopolitics?
Of course, Damascus will protest! Kurds must believe that Damascus is on their side! Every group in Syria that was under ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Saudi or US control — was given a chance to pick a protector. By now, only US-UK foreign sponsored Idlib remains exception.
Because Kurds are led by YPG, and YPG put all the faith in US to guarantee Kurds expanded territory and autonomy — it remains to be seen if in the light of these events, YPG remains in power.
Remember geography and demographics — Kurds are absolute majority in the town of Kobane, and are a high percentage of population in Kobane region — nowhere else in presumably SDF controlled area!
Meaning that YPG fighters must decide — leave all areas that are Arab majority and rush to Kobane to protect its BASE. Or if they do nothing — just remain sentinels of US folly in remote Deir Azzor m, will YPG survive staying in power in Kobane?
The extent of Turkish incursion will probably not be public for a while. US is talking ISIS prisoners — this may mean taking Raqqa as well.
Yes, for sure we are uninvited guests, but no we are not giving Turkey permission, they are uninvited guests as well. Wait a minute… when a country shows up in another country armed to the teeth and guns blazing, I thought there was another word for that…
I am amazed at the trees obscuring the forest. Russia, Iran and Turkey are guarantors of peace in Syria, and each has a different role. Let us not leave that out of sight.
Russia and Turkey coordinated EVERY single Turkish operation in Syria. Every. From Jarabulus to Al-Bab operations, to Afrin, then Idlib. There is role playing going on — in case you have not noticed. Turkey had — before Russia entered Syria — supported various Sunni groups to RESIST Kurdish take over of little towns along its borders, and US supported Free Syrian Army that worked with Kurds. The first wave of refugees came out of this US generated chaos on Turkish border. Then in 2015, a new and improved plan for controlling Iraq-Turkey-Syria borders, and Sunni territory in Syria and Iraq materialized.
ISIS came fully formed, armed, with fleets of vehicles , computers, websites, telecommunications, command and control. Flashy propaganda. What — we think it was self-organized, spontaneous and supplied from Aladin’s cave? And not by the best ally CIA had in Saudi Arabia, former ruler Mohammed Bin Nayef? All former US supported Sunni groups were abandoned, and forced to join ISIS or Al-Qaeda, the only ones with the money.
In a blink — ISIS controlled Turkish border, and Iraqi border, and Kurds who up until that time resisted joining any group against Assad, got a lesson when ISIS attacked Kobane.
This was on purpose — forcing up until then neutral Kurds to accept US protection. ISIS went in as far as Palmyra.
Russia’s entry CHANGED what Turkey could do. Before, it was on its own. Its NATO ally was ready to choke it off from any trade routes to Middle East, and take away control of its border, allowing Kurds in Turkey and Iraq to consolidate areas of control.
Once Russia protected Damascus army, provided weapons and training — more recruits were attracted, and roles of Turkey and Iran were established.
Let us look at Iran’s role. It was primarily focused on coordinating with Baghdad on the ground, strengthened Shia militia in Iraq and Syria, assisted Hezbollah in preventing ISIS spilling into Lebanon, and assisted other anti-ISIS, and anti-Nusra Front groups. Assisted Christian and Palestinian militias.
Turkey took on a role of cleaning up the border region. As ISIS was the cause of the second wave of Syrian refugees into Turkey — Turkey started taking over the patronage of militants who accepted fighting under Turkish command in order to regain their towns snd villages from ISIS.
US tactics also changed — ISIS already controlled much of Syria and Iraq — so it was time to organize Kurds in Iraq, Turkey and Syria to “fight” bad ISIS, so that the grateful population would accept Kurdish/US rule. SDF was born when YPG took power among Kurds, promising them independence from Syria.
But it is ONLY after it became clear that Syrian forces and Russia first stopped ISIS from advancing then pushed them back — that US became serious about fighting ISIS using Kurds.
US then declared control of area east of Euphrates and declared SDF in charge even though those were majority Arab areas. Then Manbij happened — Kurdish take over of mostly Arab and Turkmen town.
Turkey with Russian help moved in to cut off the creeping Kurdish control that could have established link to another Kurdish enclave, Afrin. That was critical operation, as was the later one, kicking YPG out Afrin.
This resulted in SDF and US control remained isolated to area from Turkish border along Euphrates valley to Deir Azzor. Turkey offered US assistance with ISIS long time ago — so that Syrian territorial integrity is preserved, and eliminate pretensions of Kurdish statehood. US rejected that.
Now, Turkey is getting there, and Russia-Turkey-Iran peace plan is getting closer to realization.
What Turkey has done (and Iran as well) would have been impossible for Syrian government or Russia to accomplish.
Why is Syrian government complaining about Turkey? Of course it must.
After all is said and done — the objective is to have Kurds WANT to stay part of Syria, and have Damascus be their protector from bad Turkey. These are coordinated efforts.
The typical Western portrayal of relationships among other countries — in this case Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey and Russia, is the one of suspicion, and selfishness, inability to establish long -term, strategic goals, and tactical savvy in moving objectives forward.
So we become accustomed to such thinking, and fail to see what is ACTUALLY happening. ACTUAL examples of coordination we either do not notice or we dismiss. And such are MANY. I would always prefer believing actions then words.
Will Turkey try to take a piece of Syria? It wants to ensure a “safe zone”, it sounds like. For refugees.
No, Turkey will not take parts of Syria. As one of three guarantors of peace process, it is involved in restoring territorial integrity of Syria. Turkey already battled ISIS in its first offensive, then battled YPG in Afrin to eliminate borders YPG had set up to separate its region from Syria and smuggle arms and supplies to Idlib. Turkey proposed to US to take over current US air -controlled territory, and defeat any remaining pockets of terrorism. US refused, even upped arms supply to Kurds.
The idea of protection zone is not much more then allowing Syrian refugees to come back. This border region paid high price — Kurds kicked out Arab and Turkmen from North East border, then ISIS came along the border towards the West. More population fled. And even before, US funded militants were killing Assad supporters, and others formed self-defense units. Then following supposed liberation of Raqqa — many more fled or were killed. Because ISIS top command and fighters were allowed to leave, while the population, as well as ISIS families were bombed and city reduced to rubble. It was convenient to Kurds that hoped US stay will stay forever — so Kurds can start resettling abandoned area.
Even though there were small numbers of Kurds living in Raqqa before — the new Kurdish authority has mandated Kurdish language in Raqqa schools.
This massive ethnic-based targeted displacement must be reversed. It is a key to Syria’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.
This has been repeated by Turkey over and over. Turkey does not need more Kurds — and will be happy to turn this region over to Damascus when all is said and done. For now, people must come back, Kurds autonomy stopped in its tracks, and US leave Syria. Without YPG, there is no SDF.
Iran, Turkey and Russia are managing the process, and they have all parties agree to Constitutional assembly. Should then under UN auspices the Assembly agree on Constitution— they can have elections. And when all levels of governance are established, no physical presence of occupation will be needed.
I would not be surprised if Turkish military base remains just like in Iraq. These are contingency troops insuring that Kurdish militancy does not reconstitute a later date. Ir may be not —as Russia is in Syria long term.
I hope we are not thinking that such countries like Iran, Turkey and Russia are incapable of strategic planning, tactical adjustments and mutual support. They are not out there, like inferior species just looking how to cheat each other.
Wonderful work Bianca!
I wonder if a Kurdistan isn’t possible such that Turkey could send its entire Kurdish population there, freeing it of whatever conflict it seems to have in Turkey. I’m not suggesting I want that, because I don’t know the history, don’t live there, and generally it’s none of my business. I realize there must be some contested area within Turkey.
Also, I do realize Israel wants a Kurdistan, that such would, or could, make the region weaker generally. I just find the matter interesting, as a hypothetical. I long ago learned it’s best not to meddle. Generally, I like the idea of peoples being sovereign, but it’s merely an ideal.
Sovereignty is not just an ideal. It will be as saying family is just an ideal concept. With all of its challenges, institution of state has to represent the interests of its family, the citizens living there. If a country is merely managed by disinterested bureaucrats on behalf of a sovereign far away — the voice of people is silenced, as democracy is merely a facade.
Without sovereignty a country cannot make decisions in their own interest. This loss of control over one’s affairs is felt throughout social fabric, helplessness expressed in depression or violence. And people can lose sovereignty without foreign occupation when a disconnected elite imagines they have all the answers and people are merely nuisance.
This is the real fight of our time. There was a rather good speech on the subject by Putin at the ongoing Valdai Club conference.
Nobody knows what future holds — we can only be aware of the threads that tie events together, and extrapolate what they portend for future.
But there are irrational actors — Trump administration being one of them.
His communication regarding Syria is something to behold. He refers to his own infinite wisdom — had to read this twice — then rants about endless wars, this one being authorized for 30 days, years ago, and still lacking aims. Then, out of nowhere, bequeathes ISIS prisoners to Turkey — with a friendly advice to not cross some lines, or he will obliterate Turkish economy, as he already did!
This is a scream of helplessness— with a tantrum of a toddler with no human dignity. Or is it the only way to confuse and silence at least for the moment — the bureaucracy of war industry. Who knows?
Today’s establishment is definitely blinded to forces pushing US onto a slippery slope, poised to slide down. Forces of our Hubris powered by our own blind and deaf gravity, will do it. How do you predict any of that?
I bet all countries have a contingency measures calling for “Duck and Cover”.
I meant sovereignty as in sovereignty for the Kurdish ethnic group, a state of their own. I like the ideal; Israel is pushing the ideal, but it’s also none of my business.
Trump seems to want troops out of the MidEast. He clearly went against the Neocons here; it’s just confusing as to just what they’d rather him do. Should he declare war on Turkey (according to neocons/Hillary etc)? It’s confusing.
He deserves praise for what he’s done I think. Declaring war on Turkey would be insanity. If all of the Dems come out in favour of war with Turkey, I expect Trump has an easy win in 2020. They can’t exactly sell him as dangerous in Yemen when he’s avoiding war with Turkey.
I realize the Dems probably won’t openly call for war with Turkey, but I don’t understand what else he was to do here. I guess they wanted him to declare a safe zone with Turkey, but I don’t understand how that’d be possible considering the disagreement over Kurds.
Kristol just tweeted a reference to Reagan, though Reagan got out after the 1983 Beirut barracks.
It is too late for what he “could have done”. He never had to send 3000 marines into Syria, and rubble as many cities as possible. This withdrawal is only necessary because of his own, personal invasion.
It sounds like Trump wants to leave, but he lacks the confidence to really exit: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/10/07/i-hate-it-donald-trump-opens-up-about-his-letters-parents-of-killed-soldiers/
Now the claim is that only 50 or so soldiers are really being relocated within Syria. So, I guess he’s backing down. If more people cared about foreign policy, maybe he’d follow through. It’s like he wants to get out, but he also lacks the confidence to do it. Or, he’s just so conservative that he fears radical change.
I don’t fear this sort of radical change though. I’d get all troops out…
Also, I appreciate the explanation. I hope you’re correct.
Bianca is by the sanest person here in this discussion. Keep up the good work!
Sure, the US expects to either act unilaterally or have everyone else sign up to our agenda, and anyone else’s independent agenda is inherently suspect and threatening, particularly if those others are perceived / manufactured enemies. Certainly Russia Iran and Turkey are active in Syria and diplomatically engaged with each other. But no, Turkey invading NE Syria is not guaranteeing peace in Syria through war.
I have trouble believing Syria’s government is winking and nodding. Russia arming Syria and helping attack Idlib arguably is guaranteeing peace against Al Qaeda… but no one should trust that Turkey will not keep territory they grab. No matter what various diplomats may be promising behind the scenes, Turkey is a crazy messy wild card.
This makes sense only in the context of complete US withdrawal from Syria now that ISIS has been completely defeated.
Yes, Dieter, it makes a lot of sense. DJT wanted to withdraw ALL US troops from Syria last December but Pompous Pompeo and Bonkers Bolton wanted no parts of that move and bullied DJT into caving.
It was Obama who sent all those US troops into Syria back in 2011 without consulting the Bashar al-Assad Govt. and/or asking permission. He knew Assad wouldn’t grant him permission to send any US troops into his country, and I don’t blame him. He eventually allowed Russia to send its Air Force to the Kmeimin Air Base and use it to bomb ISIS (Obama was funding/arming ISIS).
It is appalling to me that a dead Bin Laden still dominates our policies for Syria, Libya, Somalia, Iraq, Iran, and Yemen. [1]
Pompeo and Bolton may have bullied DJT into caving last December but that does not exonerate DJT from caving. He is now facing the unintended consequences of that caving and these consequences are not pretty for him or for our nation.
Because DJT is totally unqualified to be in charge of our foreign and military policies and actions there will be lots more nasty unintended consequences for every tweet, every decision of DJT to come.
To avoid misunderstandings, I have always held that our entry into the Syrian civil was was a blunder and that President Trump should have fully withdrawn all of our armed forces from Syria in 2017 and never gone back. The unintended consequences of that might not have been pleasant either but we would not have become stuck there.
[1] Bin Laden alive would have applauded Trump’s threat to obliterate Turkey’s economy.
Yes, Eileen. But you failed to sufficiently emphasize that Obama sent those troops to Syria to ***protect*** ISIS. Even as he was declaring that he was fighting them, he was shielding them. It was part of the continuing regime-change effort to unseat Assad.
(General Flynn, from inside the Pentagon, blew the whistle on that in 2012.)
Then Russia blew the whistle on this Obama/CIA/Neocon bullsh*t with aerial photos of hundreds of oil tanker trucks lined up to receive ISIS oil for sale in Turkey to Israeli buyers. Oil tanker trucks lined up undisturbed.
Then Trump got elected, hired the Kurds for his boots-on-the-ground, and carried out his promise to destroy/bomb the sh*t out of ISIS.
It’s an incredibly tangled web, with Israel behind it all.
But strategically it has been a disaster for Israel (and the US). In short order Israel will be surrounded by “the Shia Crescent”, armed to the teeth with tens of thousands of game-changing, precision-guided drones. Soon Israel “will pass from the pages of history.”
Just a tiny correction — oil sold in Kurdish controlled area of Turkey for Israeli buyers. Remember neocon media pinning it in Erdogan, his son, his pets..
And the most significant upshot of all is the regional change in balance of forces.
With its fanatical belief in expansion, Israel and US have created a huge backlash that goes well beyond Shia crescent. While the imaginary crescent was a.visual device, a reality that emerged in the last four years is astounding. Iraq liberated its territory — not US from ISIS with its boots in the ground. Israel cannot count in pliable Iraq. ISIS menace endangered Lebanon, strengthening Hezbollah, as Lebanese of all faiths supported them. New Lebanon has been born, the one developing ties to Russia to deal with aggressive Israel and US/Israel determination to demonize Hezbollah in order to leave Lebanon unprotected. Turkey has established ties with Russia that go beyond Syria, and into security umbrella within Eurasian region. Saudi ruler that was the key to founding ISIS, was toppled in 2017, after it became clear to Saudis that US was unable to capitalize on its destructive potential encompassing Syria and Iraq. Once the very compliant ruler was toppled — the new one was demonized from the start, and continues. It is because in spite of all the power US has over KSA — the Kingdom is diversifying global ties.
The net result to Israel is loss of US influence over Middle East — which means danger to them.
And now, it is surrounded with battle hardened militaries from Syria and Iraq, battle hardened militias in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. And diminished and very unhappy MBS!
And in Russia, the annual Valdai conference brought together the King of Jordan, President of Azerbaijan and the President of Philippines. Clearly in company of those who seek closer relationship with Moscow. Which applies to a large voting block in Israel.
With Israel internally being divided, as well as its key protector US, the momentum is not on Israel’s side.
“We are anti-war until Orange Man ends deployments. Then we are mad because Orange Man Bad.”
– Antiwar.com commenters
I’m overjoyed at least. Many of the posters here are perpetually angry at everyone who isn’t an anarchist or socialist or some other ist. And some are partisan Democrats.
Trump hasn’t fully withdrawn from Syria, however.
This is big news for Trump’s right-wing troll brigade. Many had lost faith when Trump remained in Syria. Foreign policy matters. Trump might have his trolls back for 2020 with this.
“Many had lost faith when Trump remained in Syria.”
You talk as if we are actually leaving.
Well, I noted in the previous paragraph that a full withdrawal hasn’t taken place. This is progress!
Last I read, the Taliban still wants to negotiate also. So, maybe out of Afghanistan too.
Shall I get the parade band assembled ?
No we are not leaving. Turkey is kicking us out, they told us so two days ago. So, unless we want war with Turkey — we must withdraw those tiny outposts we placed to serve as a trip wire. The problem with trip wires is — when tripped , you must do something.
I will not be shocked if we actually try to set something up to punish Turkey. But why — there are countries galore around that are reeling from setbacks. Iraq, Saudi Arabia. Political chaos in Israel, King of Jordan in Russia, Yemen tupsy-turvey. It is all like some kind of wild party where everybody drinks, but nobody knows who is paying the bill.
Somehow, will US want a war with Turkey over taking charge and repatriating Syrian refugees.
“trump remained in Syria”…no, again..when trump took office there were 400 spec ops in Syria, likely for targeting of ISIS, or whoever the hell, and training. When trump entered office, HE deployed 3000 marines into Syria to fulfill his campaign promise to carpet bomb ISIS cities and kill terrorists families. That is the campaign promise he kept. The marines brought 2 batteries of 155mm artillery, rained down 100, ooo shells into Syrian cities. Even if trump brings every single US troop home from everywhere, he will remain a war criminal. Yes, like Obama, like Bush, like Clinton, like, oh, Bush again…etc
It’s confusing to know how to respond to Trump. He’s constantly condemned for not being more aggressive, except with regard to certain areas.
The trump campaign is designed to confuse, and obfuscate. The bannon method, “media mayhem”.
Partly, yes. But it’s also the matter that he’s at times suggesting opposition to the oligarchs in some areas. Someone like Kamala Harris wants all the establishment things, isn’t going to go her own way. Trump is not fully controlled. The media has legitimately been unfair to Trump this entire time.
In some areas like Yemen and Iran, Trump is perhaps worse than the establishment. From his perspective, I imagine he’s trying to keep Israel and the Saudis happy, because he seems to have no other foreign political allies. And supposedly it’s important for some foreign leader to like a President, I guess. I’d prefer he tried to win over Greenland or New Zealand though…
What deployments has the “Orange man” ended? We’re not leaving Syria or any other G-damned place we were in when he got elected.
You sound like a concern troll. Trump is standing against Cat-5 headwinds to get this far. You think the President has absolute power? If yes you are a fool. It’s not Trump versus Perfect. It was Trump v Hillary “The Destroyer of Libya”. Grow the f uck up.
Trump is the commander in chief of the armed forces. If he orders them out of [insert country here], they’ll leave [insert country here].
You are correct that it was Trump v Hillary. But that was nearly three years ago. Now it’s Trump v Trump supporters’ gullibility.
ConservativeTreeHouse is happy. Breitbart is mixed. Ingraham, Tucker, Coulter, Tonelson: No mentions of Syria yet.
Code Pink offers faint praise. Tulsi, silent. With friends like these…
I see headlines squawking about Trump “withdrawing troops from Syria.” But then in the actual stories, the word seems to be no, he’s just moving some US troops around WITHIN Syria. Which doesn’t seem like anything for non-interventionists to get excited about.
Well, it’s a ceding of territory and removal of a primary justification for the troops’ presence – a step closer to full withdrawal, maybe.
I do not believe you. You say things that do not pass the the straight face test.
I responded to your post. You implied he has ended the Syrian deployment and the commentators here are mad. I’ll be ecstatic when he ends one. Let me know when it happens. And there were more than two candidates on my ballot so I didn’t have to vote for either the witch or the moron, and I didn’t.
Yup, all I’ve seen is “leaving NE Syria”. Doesn’t mean they are leaving Syria, or, just going to western Iraq for further operations. Gotta hand it to the trumpsters, they grasp onto the thinnest “hopey changey” like no other.
So did Obama enthusiasts. Obama was true to his word — you all can hope for a change, but you may not get one.
President is a mighty Wiz, projecting omnipotence — but do not look behind the curtain. There, he does not pull the leavers of power, but those leavers jerk him around.
We ARE already living in multi-polar world, right here in US.
All Trump era changed, was bringing up the power struggle into the open. We learned a lot — if we chose to learn. Like that a corporation called DNC is above the law when it accused a candidate and then a sitting president of treason — and then refused access to servers to FBI — the institution in charge of counter-intelligence. That called for seizure of servers and obstruction of justice charges against those that denied access.
As we all know, we had CIA instead giving their uncalled for two cents worth, using a report by Hillary’s family friends.
We can go on and in. Our institutions are disfunctional, and meddle in each others’s sfere if authority. We are amused by METOO dramas, and government is paralyzed. Behind the scenes there us a deadly tug-of-war. Do we care to see what is the lineup, or we would rather believe in the Wiz?
Read Bill Kristol, Hillary Clinton, Romney, Graham etc twitter. What do they wish Trump had done instead?
It sounds like they’re demanding war with Turkey. They’re portraying his pulling out of this area as somehow negative.
I think Trump deserves to be defended here. I guess someone ought to write an article praising him for not declaring war on Turkey? To be submitted at RealClearPolitics or wherever is appropriate.
It makes no sense that he’s condemned by the MSM for pulling out of the region.
He is being condemned for many different reasons. You are wrong to assume dems want to war with Turkey, no idea where that comes from. The dems are condemning the abandonment of the Kurds, an ally, and the failure of trump to use diplomacy, while troops are there, to establish Kurdish security. Do the dems really care, probably not. Yet their attempts to pull out of ME wars thru congressional fiat has been shot down by trump himself (veto of Yemen pullout) and the GOP. To point at dems as being gung ho for war in light of the legislation they have attempted, takes the thing from cynical, to ludicrous.
Dems wanting to exit Yemen does not suggest Dems wanting to exit Syria.
There’s no reason to assume diplomacy with Turkey is possible to “establish Kurdish security.” What does that even mean? Turkey has made it clear: There shall be no Kurdistan. It’s clearly willing to war over the matter.
The only alternative is war with Turkey, which I happen to oppose, especially if NATO were to side against the US.
An argument could be made that Graham/Hillary/etc. simply want to make Trump look bad, but that doesn’t appear to be the case here. They all truly seem upset at the “abandonment” of Kurdish sovereignty which Turkey has never been willing to tolerate.
If Turkey is actually only wanting to remove some group of Kurds, well who is to replace them to provide security? Anyway paying the slightest attention has noticed Turkey’s repeated protests about Kurdish independence. Assuming Turkey has no territorial ambitions, it would most prefer the Kurds to be under a Syrian government, which means Assad at this point.
On “exit Yemen” vote. Congress is a ponderous machine. The Yemen vote was an attempt to assert congressional authority over war authorization. If successful, this authority could have set in motion a series of similar votes in other theaters. It was thwarted by trump and the GOP, and ultimately, the voters that put them in power. The notion the “parties are the same” is ludicrous.
The parties arent the same, but the Pres candidates largely are.
I doubt the Dems would have voted on such a bill were it not Trump in office. TDS has some benefits.
I very much wish the bill had passed. Authorization from 2001 or whenever has surely expired. And Congress should need to declare war anyway.
Regarding voters who put them in power: I disagree that voters are to blame. In a democratic system, voters tend to be blamed, but they do not deserve blame.
Actually, if you review congressional actions regarding Yemen during Obama, you will find dems either opposing, or attempting to severely restrict military assistance to the war there. Problem being, as usual, GOP support for the war, and criticisms for not offering far more war support, as they did in Kosovo. What I find discouraging, here on these pages, is the lack of credit for what the dems continue to attempt to accomplish in congress for antiwar, versus what trump says he “wants” to accomplish. No, the dems as a whole are not the “peace train” either, yet compared to the GOP, no contest. Should note, Obama stated in 2015 he wished the terror authorization to end. He got no credit for saying that, compared to all the credit trump gets for “saying” he wants to end forever wars.
This site seems to cater to both sides. It praised the Dems, condemned trump for veto. Obama certainly got credit here for the Iran deal and for improving relations with Cuba.
Briefly, in the 90s, the GOP was more for peace. Then 9/11 hit, and “conservatives” were convinced by their masters that the US is only safe if murdering the rest of the world, while also bringing in survivors who, of course, wouldn’t be angry. Because spreading democracy, or something.
Obama could have ordered troops home, could have insisted all would come home without a war declaration. Obama entering Syria didn’t seem to have legal standing, as then interpreted by the media/legal experts/politicians and other assorted liars. Trump has continued that policy of ignoring any pretense of legality in sending troops.
Raimondo backed Obama in 2008. I voted for Duncan Hunter; he lost to McCain. I acknowledged Obama was better than McCain. I still do. And I can think of nothing positive to say about the late McCain. He was evil incarnate. Obama would have likely improved on foreign policy had he remained in office. He was an evil globalist who hated American citizens, but his foreign policy was improving. It takes them about 8 years to learn how to be President, stand on their own.
I don’t think Trump gets enough credit here for his improved trade deals with Canada, Mexico, and Japan. The empire pays to retain its influence; American citizens don’t benefit, we pay for the empire.
So, Trump has weakened the empire, strengthened American citizens. Americans are now paying less to client states for their cooperation in the empire.
With regard to China, Trump is perhaps strengthening the empire in a sense by improving trade deals there, but that also helps America.
And the drama has reduced trust in intelligence agencies and the media, which harms the empire.
On the whole, I’d say this site doesn’t give Trump phenom the full credit he deserves. This is a small site; it does a lot. But if it’s true that it doesn’t give full credit to the Dem CongressCritters, it’s also true it doesn’t give full credit to the Trump phenom, which isn’t the same as Trump himself.
What is “improved” about those trade deals? And have any of them actually been ratified?
Mexico, Canada, Japan. And those 3 are client states of the empire. They’re better generally for the US.
It’s pertinent to the empire, because clients are less likely to obey the US if profiting less and if otherwise less dependent.
Somehow I think I read the following NYT article without a paywall, earlier. If so, it references trade, and it generally paints Trump as wanting to remove all foreign troops, no matter how few are stationed: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/07/world/middleeast/trump-syria-turkey.html
The article is pertinent, because I believe it links trade. It’s fictional since it’s NYT which is the parody paper of record, but it’d be nice if true.
I guess none have been ratified. I’m not sure what the actual impact has been.
Higher tariffs on foreign produced goods at least encourages those goods to be produced in the US. And they lessen the hold on client states.
Higher tariffs on foreign goods are higher taxes on American consumers, and that’s all they are. No amount of sophistry will magically make them beneficial to anyone but 1) the state itself and 2) the business cronies of the politicians who pass them.
That’s not the only reason they are significant. It’s a reduction in payments to retain client states.
What Kristol and the other idiots want is irrelevant to what I said.
I will defend Trump when he actually keeps his word on one of his promises to end one of our deployments. But I heard this song before. The last time he talked about moving the troops to Iraq so they would be in position to attack Syria if needed(he said it again this time). You know Iraq, the place where Trump said we should not have gone in but a place he hasn’t removed our troops from either.
I wholeheartedly agree that Trump shouldn’t be condemned by the MSM for “pulling out of the region” but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be questioned about whether he will actually do it. Conveniently, something always stops him.
I’ll be interested to see whether or not Orange Man actually ends any deployments. I’ve certainly supported him when he’s said he wants to do that.
And maybe someday he will.
But until he does, he hasn’t.
Agree. Inly this time he will have to make a decision to fight Turkey, or just let go. And just how far he intends to pull back.
It is tricky for Kurds that are propping up the illusion of SDF controlled territory. Do they go back to fortify Kobane, or remain isolated in heavily Arab populated areas?
US Congress is always eager to invade other nations, and always reluctant to pull out. Something about all the MIC jobs in their districts.
The President has now tweeted, among others, “if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey…” Is that another Trump joke?
He’ll raise sanctions. It’s a heck of a lot better than what the anti-Trumps want. They want a full war with Turkey, now.
The dichotomy is Trump vs. hot war with Turkey, with about 1% of the political establishment (libertarians, greens, paleos, etc.) wanting to leave the region alone. Nearly everyone condemning Trump is wanting a hot war right now.
US never had any choice. The US is in no position to start a war with Turkey over Syria. So as long as Erdogan kept threatening, eventually he would get his way.
Now it remains to be seen how Turkey will fare against the YPG, how many refugees from the area will end up in Assad-controlled territory, and how much land Erdogan will end up snatching from Syria. Also, to what degree will Russia be forced to intervene (diplomatically) with Turkey to negotiate some sort of deal to limit Turkey’s ambitions.
This was inevitable. Once in every generation, the American Empire allies itself with the Kurds in one conflict or another. And once in every generation, the American Empire throws those Kurds beneath a f**king lawnmower once they’re done with them. With this being said, and speaking as a longtime supporter of the Rojava experiment, I welcome this latest Yankee screw-job in hopes that it finally pushes the Kurds to join their fellow anti-imperialists in the Axis of Resistance. A revolution cannot survive beneath imperial occupation, but amongst comrades, in a greater fight against global tyranny, Rojava may finally reach its full potential.
America wants to create one additional narco state that harvest organs , traffics minor , sells drugs and does rendition , contract killing and works for America and only ally in the world . Kurdistan is the name of that future country .
Senator King , Senator Graham , non -senator- plain thug -republican and soul mate street thug Democrats and their daily military mouthpiece from FOX to NPR are getting upset over the possibility that it might get aborted .
And they already have Albania and Kosovo for that. They were planning to get Moslems of Sanjak region in Serbia secede— but Erdogan came to visit them in the company of Serbian President — and gave them a lesson in being loyal to their country. Erdogan effect in Balkans is yet to be manifested. Many are running for cover. Many beseeching US to help.
It was the Syrian Army, supported by Russia, Iran and Hezbollah, all invited by the Syrian government, who defeated ISIS. The terrorists were supported by the US (and initially also Turkey) who were their “boots on the ground” in an endeavour to oust Assad. White Helmets staged false flag gas attacks so as to blame Assad and invite American “retaliation”.