John Bolton’s visit to Turkey was decidedly a failure this weekend, leading to an angry rebuke from the Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who cancelled plans to meet with Bolton during the visit.
Erdogan objected to comments by both Bolton and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo about the US concerns Turkey would target Syria’s Kurds during their invasion. Erdogan said Bolton’s comments were a “big mistake,” and has also accused him of complicating the announced US pullout.
US officials have made a big deal out of Turkey’s plans for the Kurds, as they have been the main US allies in Syria. Erdogan, however, called that a “huge lie,” and say that the Kurdish YPG was never really fighting ISIS.
Erdogan went so far as to accuse the US of “double-speak” on the issue of Syria, saying Bolton’s public statements contradicted the claimed agreement he made with President Trump. This is a fair complaint, as Bolton’s recent comments do conflict with Trump’s previous announcement on the pullout.
Where this leaves the US and Turkey is anyone’s guess. Turkey had clearly planned to invade after the US left, though now it’s not clear when the US will be leaving. Talk of having previous “productive discussion” on the US pullout may no longer apply, as Bolton seems to have moved the timetable back from months to withdraw to potentially years, and Turkey is once again threatening to invade unilaterally.
Accuses Bolton of complicating US withdrawal plans
Jeez, complicating, you think? this is the only guy who has made any sense since this 4-ring circus has started with bolton getting on the airplace a couple days ago;
-send bolton back to brief his handlers at foundation for defense of democracies and let us move on;
not only is bolton a rabid neo con extremist, he is even more stupid by neo con standards and HE HAS NO AUthority on this matter!
Maybe no official authority, but Bolton seems to be maneuvering to be Trump’s Cheney.
I’d be careful assuming that the government works as advertised at this point in time.
Bolton may not have any authority through his official position, but that doesn’t mean he has no authority over foreign policy.
If you hadn’t noticed, foreign policy has been being written by think tanks for decades now.
It’s what you get in a plutocracy hiding behind a controlled democracy.
You’re seeing the “created” reality Karl Rove was talking about that only allows you to catch up after the next reality has been created.
“We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality – judiciously, as you will – we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors… and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
-Karl Rove
https://www.azquotes.com/quote/646373
Yep, but now this only applies to skirmishes among parties. Globally, trillions of debt will catch up with the debtor, falling behind in military technology is a reality that canot be spun. There are no foreign policy realities created, just hard realities to be dealt with not only in places with US troups on the ground, but all over the globe where our bases dot the continents. The clash between China and its model of trade and investment is pushing out western corporate model that cannot compete. It is really about the reality of competition that cannot be spun, or changed at will by imlerial edicts, or military might.
Reality is spun by portraying adversaries as predatory and neocolonial. It is a weak spin, as it does not explain the reason for Western corporations lack of competitiveness . Then creating trouble spots for the delelopment of infrastructure among countries that engage in investments funded by our adversaries. Be that Myanmar Ronghiya lrivince that just happens to be the most desirable corridor linking China to sea past straights. Shch examples are plentifull. This means spending energy on blocking others to develop, while doing nothing to examine our own role in such affairs. Credit giss to Trump for raising the issue — regardless how one feels about his goals or methods.
So, Karl Rove could not predict that in such a short time we would be the one having to react to circumstances or actions of others outside our control.
Good point: govt, if it works at all, works behind the curtain, money under the table, and the abelson funded foundation for the defense of democracies.
I guess the point I should have made is that whatever the formal authority on this, bottom line is it is all for the benefit of israel and that is how it will get played.
Another concerning aspect is where the hell is kushner in all of this-he has been up to his eyeballs in taking care of bibi in all endeavors-not likely he is going to change on that, other words, believe he has bolton’s back on this as nauseating as that sounds.
Good for Erdogan! W8… what did I just post….
Between Pompeo about to become the man who lost North Korea and Bolton the man who lost Syria (along with Pompeo), I may have underestimated their Machiavellian capabilities.
In order to counter Russia, Turkey can’t be further isolated. This includes further economic squeezing.
I winder about their methods of handling Turkey. In fact, the only exllanation I have is a group-think that was in vogue for the past four years — the thinking that belueved that Turkey is just angling for some concessions. And that US has many leavers of power inside Turkey, dconomic, political, threat of secessionism, including power that Soros-Gulen media ownership had over public opinion. So, all Turkey’s concerns were ignored, litterally laughed at. There was a period between 2013 and May 2016 when our media went ballistic against Erdogan, accussed him of every possible vice — demonizatikn was in full swing. It ended with the fall of Davutoglu government in May 2016, when Erdogan’s wing won clear victory in interparty conflict. Following the failed attempt of a coup/assasination, after July 2016 Turkey emerged as independent of US foreign policy, and openly embracing Russia and China that are tge main cause of Turkey economic growth and economic security. Even then pundits continue pointing to Russia and Turkey differences on Syria. If they observed more cliosely, they would have noticed the tactical character of disagreements in order for Thrkey to round up Sunni islamist groups, while Russia focused on Kurds, as well as supporting Shia, Christian and Palestinian militia.
As of yesterday, Erdogan threw another stink bomb at Bollton — suggesting that Turkey, Iran and Russia should jointly manage US firces withddawal. A meeting is planned by the three. As Gulf countries lost every interest in suplirting US Israeli goals in Syria, and are creating a feel good media emenvironment for Assad government in their countries, it is clear that Israel is alone in urging US to stay.
Dies it matter if Bolton and company are just useful idiots allowing Trump
to sit back and see what will neocons throw at the withdrawal plan, or are actually neocon tools? But as we debate our internal conflicts — we are rapidly running out of allies. With the exception of very paralysed Europe, the rest of the world is already mughtily hedging their bets. I have a feeling that our Gulf allies are in that mode presently.
Fortunately the U.S. dominates the second World Heartland of North America (Great Plains to be exact) and does not need allies, at least not those that reduce the U.S. to ‘war dog, go fetch’. George Washington himself warned against entangling alliances anyway.
Erdogan does both, angle for advantage with threats, then follows through on threats he can, when he has to. The Kurds make themselves too-easy targets. Bringing up Turkey’s Eurasian option is Erdogan’s way of reminding Bolton’s backers, they may squeeze Trump at their peril, but he’s got friends who can’t be so easily squeezed.
Kind of surprising; normally face-to-face meetings are worked out beforehand and are mostly ceremonial formalities closing done, or near-done agreements. Seems like Bolton just laid down the imperial writ and expected to be taken seriously at face value. Snubbing him was a message to Bolton’s Deep State handlers, not Trump.
I agree with everything you say. The message definitively was for deep
state.
I was only trying to assess if the deep state has the power to prevail. One thing is prevailing iver Trump — but another actually prevailing on the battlefield. We need a war like a hole in our beads, but elite can be irrational when in danger internally. And all over Europe elites are facing restless populatikn. Usually some heroic war is an answerr. But there are too many risks in trying to manufacture a war in the Middle East. And it is tempting to put down an uppiity NATO member. I am noticing hints from Israeli press that “Arabs” do not like Turkey’s meddling, efc. These kinds of rumblings are often in line with deep state thinking.
But it sounds unrealistic that something can be manufactured to make US “obligafed” to act, and force Trump’s hand. Turkey is trying to make it easy — but Deep state is not buying. We shall see. But thus is dangerkus. Israel does not want US out of its neighborhood. Deep State does not want Turkey to gain strategic independence. These folks are addicted to imperial games, and cannot any more think straight.
The U.S. does have the power to persist in Syria; its just not very useful to do so. Waiting till Putin goes is not much of a plan.
Of course it does. US can chose to stay at Al-Tanf indefinitely if that is nedded to appease Israel. But there will be no Kurdish statelet or autonomy other then what will be decided by 150 strong constitutional assembly that Sytian government and various opposition and local government forces have agreed to.
Yes, staying for the sake of a refugee csmp sounds like a plan to me. Syria and Iraq do not need Al-Tanf to reconnect their infrastructure. Sounds more like a symbolic act. YPG will not stay in power. Kurds in Afrin are no longer ruled by YPG and their local government seems to be doing well
under Turkish rule. YPG was an obstacle there — by refusing Russian plan to reintegrate with Syria — Turkey was forced to occupy and secure biorders against weapons smuggling . YPG is not very popular there — Kurds wanted to go under Damascus rule. This is why they folded so quickly in Afrin due to absence of popular suppkrt. This is probably true elsewhere in Kurd doominated areas. This is why Turkey is optimistic, and this is why US is trying to have them profected.
It will be very interesting. Turkey may not have any options left but to tackle YPG in its stronghold — Kobane. This may be the only cure to YOG dreams of controlling Euphrates valley — as they myst choose—- greater Kurdistan or loss of their iwn home base.
Interesting indeed…
For once I’m in agreement with Erdogan. I just wish he would have had Bolton whacked.
Bolton/Pompeo 2020. Or, Pompeo/Bolton 2020.
This is what happen when empires fall apart. It ain’t pretty but it needs to happen. My personal hope is that Bolton stalls the thing just long enough for the Kurds to make a deal with Assad and then Bolton gets fired and the troops get pulled out without the Kurds getting f**ked. That way all the biggest assh*les in this zoo get screwed over by their own stupidity.
Frigging Bolton again!!!!!