Tensions between Russia and Ukraine are once again soaring this weekend, with reports that Russia has seized three Ukrainian navy vessels off the coast of the Crimean Peninsula. Crimea is de facto under Russian control, but Ukraine considers it part of their territory.
Earlier in the day, Ukraine accused Russian ships of ramming their tugboat in the Sea of Azov and opened fire on the gunships, injuring two. Russia claims that the Ukrainian ships were illegally in Russian waters at the time, and that the Sea was closed for security reasons.
Ukraine, which has been talking up war with Russia for years, is quickly escalating, with the National Security and Defense Council planning a midnight session at which they intend to declare war on Russia, and will urge parliament to impose martial law across Ukraine, a vote which will happen Monday.
What this declaration of war would mean remains to be seen, as Ukraine clearly lacks the military to fight a land war with Russia. The martial law measure would likely be a pretext to launch an attack on ethnic Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine.
The boats involved in this incident were identified as BK-02 Berdyansk and BK-03 Nikopol, two small Gyurza-M class artillery boats, and the Yany-Kapu tugboat. Ukraine has a limited navy, particularly since the Crimean secession in 2014, as most naval assets held there were given to the Russian Federation.
I don’t think Ukraine is the aggressor in this case. Implying that has been the situation is a little disingenuous…
OK, it’s outright B. S.
What article did you read ? Where does it explicitly say anyone was the aggressor ?
again in the second paragraph Russian boats rammed the Ukrainian tug boat . that is agressive if it is done on purpose
LOL, it also says the Ukrainian tug boat was illegally there which would be stating both sides of the claims of both parties and suggesting that Ukraine was trying to provoke the aggression which in and of itself is aggressive.
This article is non-factual. There is no motion to declare war on Russia in Ukraine’s Rada. This article is non-reality–Ukraine is the pits, cold in winter, and has too many right wing nuts, but they would never “declare war on Russia.” Get a grip. This is probably about postponing elections, not war.
That’s funny how there is photo evidence and video of this confrontation all over the internet and both sides agree it happened. Calling this article non factual is just, well, non factual.
Disagreeing with part of the article does not give you that right to say it’s non factual.
You are drunk? I accept your apology. But try and read more closely what I am saying. It will help advance the conversation.
I didn’t apologize for pointing out your obvious trigger event nor will I. The article is not in any way non-factual since the fact is this event happened and both sides admit it happened. Your hyperbole does not advance the conversation in any way nor does your ad hominen attack that amounts to nothing more than trying to distract from your emotionally charged and ignorant original post.
Well Ukraine is the aggressor for firing at Russian boats in Russia’s water of course Ukraine doesn’t want recognize the Crimea is now back to Russian water again . It all depends on what NATO thinks they can do about this ? Once Russia accepted Crimea back Russia can control anything in the black sea . and I think that includes NATO As a matter fact that is why Russia was happy to have Crimea back .
Where does it say Ukraine fired on Russian boats ? Actually there is some sort of treaty between these two countries pertaining to the usage of the waters in question.
second paragraph someone fired two were injured in Russian waters . Russian waters were closed because of security reasons all three boats were seized by the Russians .
It’s reported Russia both rammed the tug boat and fired at the other two boats as they ran away. Firing on Russian ships under those circumstances would be suicide. Those little gunships were just purchased from the US a while back and there was also another little exercise by Ukraine a few months back just like this one where Russia informed them that next time there would be consequences. This is a bread and circus maneuver due to upcoming elections in Ukraine and the upcoming G-20 where Putin and Trump are supposed to meet.
Comment at Hal Turner site from inteldrop333 at 17:59 11/25/2018
Harold Charles “Hal” Turner is an American white nationalist, Holocaust denier, and blogger from North Bergen, New Jersey. In August 2010, he was convicted for making threats against three federal judges with the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. Wikipedia
the first question always is, Why now?
since the illegal coup in 2014 and the annexation of the Crimea by Russia and the break-off of the provinces/areas in the eastern Ukraine, it’s been one threat (or attack or provocation) after another by the Ukrainian government which is under virtual US control….so, perhaps this is happening now to help torpedo the Putin-Trump meeting at the end of this month in Argentina at the G20 summit (nov 30)….
or the US has some other agenda of its own behind all this.
Putin has been a rational actor throughout the Syria debacle, throughout the Ukraine/Crimea debacle, and throughout trumps calls for increased NATO security in eastern Europe. I wouldn’t expect him to go off now.
That’s relative.
He did not “go off” when he decided enough was enough and went into Syria. Now he’s near done with that commitment.
He could do it again, as he also did in Georgia. It is our foreign policy elite that foolishly underestimated an outcome there.
The Election of the Ukrainian Prime minister is coming up and Poroshenko is trailing by 8%. By declaring martial law, he gets to delay the election.
Why now? Good question.
I can come up with only one rational answer: because Ukraine is beginning to militarize its coast on the Sea of Azov.
Little tidbit: Azov is where Czar Peter built this first Navy.
It is a provocation, regardless of the extent of planned outcome. Perhaps just a stunt before the meeting, perhaps there was some nefarious objective, or at least enough indication was out there for Russian intelligence to indicate reason for security precaution. Beyond that — we do not know.
What we have to kerp in mind is the fact of active and virulent preparation of UK pipulation, and to an extent Anerican population — for a conflict with Russia. The only reason for holding back on a major provocation is a nagging doubt that Russia is more prepared to respond then comfortable. To that end, a small and rather inconspicuous breach of Russian detectors would have been helpful in planning a larger sabotage.
It is amazing that nedia is getting into the act of advocating bombing of civilian infrastructure — and our laws are OK with that. We have oficially gone mad. I cannot help thinking that the financial robber barrons are praying and rain dancing for a war. The only way out of the mess ghey created, and that cannot be propped up by them much longer. And the politicians thst are litteraly in the take, do not serm able to think clearly. Just day to day survival, duck, bob and weave. But as all observation points out, Russia will act asymmetrically. If there is ever a war, Russia will chose special ops in regions that have Russian majorities. At least 3-4 are easy candidates. Region next to Crimea, Kharkov, Dnyepropetrovsk and Odessa. Three geographically close to Eastern Ukraine and Odessa on the Black Sea. Things have been symerring there, and election will bring forward secessionist minded candidates. Ukraine does not have much of a military, but having to worry about internal rebellion as well — is a big risk. Ukraine is also at odds with Hungary as Hungarian population, Carpatho-Russians and Belarus populace in Western Ukraine have been suffering under Lviv nazis getting out of control.
Whatever it is, sounds like zealotism prevailing over common sense.
I agree with you that this might be being done so Americans will give their permission for us to go to war with Russia. This is the reason why Russia Gate is not fading away after two years of the Mueller investigation.
That people have fallen for another WMDs scam so easily is very sad. Would they have if Hillary hadn’t lost? And did she actually lose? I have thought that she did win, but the PTB knew that she couldn’t have gotten away with the things that Trump has and so they put him in office instead. Okay call me crazy, but it could have happened like this.
I think, what you are saying is, as long as the US wants to play king of the hill in Russian turf, the Russians will play, only smarter.
…and deadlier.
My Paternal Grandmother was a Russian ethnic living in the Kharkov region in Ukraine prior to WWI. Even back then, the Russian ethnics had little respect for their Ukrainian fellow citizens. In all of her later comments to us, her family, she dismissed Ukrainian ethics, honesty, and workmanship. According to her, such a war would be over in several days, with Russia just walking in – unless Ukraine can get the USA suckered in on their side – which, I am sure is the prime strategy.
Thanks, Jason, for being alone in getting on top of this critically important development.
Witness how the U.S. news/war media are spinning it:
NBC:
Russia attacks and seizes three Ukrainian naval vessels off the coast of Crimea in Black Sea
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/russia-attacks-seizes-three-ukrainian-naval-vessels-coast-crimea-black-n939876
WaPo
“It is now likely possible that Russia plans further acts of aggression at sea or on the ground. We must be ready for this,” Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin said on Twitter
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/russia-closes-water-route-in-fresh-confrontation-with-ukraine/2018/11/25/a57adc3e-f0c1-11e8-99c2-cfca6fcf610c_story.html?utm_term=.d774c60b56ec
Reuters:
The Ukrainian navy accused Russia on Sunday of opening fire on some of its ships in the Black Sea, striking one vessel and wounding a crew member
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-attack/ukraine-accuses-russia-of-opening-fire-on-some-of-its-ships-in-black-sea-idUSKCN1NU0XP
Ukraine intensifies ground war in Donbass
https://www.unian.info/war/10351014-ukrainian-troops-get-under-control-another-village-in-occupied-donbas-photo.html
Americans give “gratitude to Ukrainian soldiers and officers defending them from Russia’s aggression in the Donbas region”
https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/on-thanksgiving-weaken-americans-in-kyiv-give-thanks-for-ukraines-soldiers.html
Jason: To counter the scoffers/trolls in regard to your timely posting:
Ukraine’s army put on full combat alert – Defense Ministry
http://tass.com/world/1032465
Russia asks for convening UN SC meeting on Sea of Azov situation
http://tass.com/politics/1032461
Anti war dot com, by its headline, is falsely suggesting oncoming war, which is pro war. But hey, it’s Sunday and the weekend crew is on. They’ll straighten it out tomorrow.
…the current Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council (NSDC) of Ukraine, Oleksandr Turchynov, said: “We are convening the Ukrainian NSDC to declare a state of war”.
We might not BE here tomorrow, idiot.
Mmmm, if ships are firing on each other, and sailors are indeed dying, there is already war occurring.
Fighting large or small can happen without a declaration of war, and that lack can make it easier to stop. The US representative just said that in Syria exactly that has happened between Russians and Americans many more times than the one event previously admitted.
War can be declared without immediate fighting, like the Phony War period at the beginning of WW2, but the declaration itself helps ensure it becomes a long nasty war.
Fighting and declaring war are different things. See also the US in the Atlantic before declaration of its involvement in WW2, and how that intensified after declaration of fighting that had already gone on and killed people and sunken ships.
How is reporting a fact “pro-war?”
If it is not true, and incendiary, then it might be a pro-war act. That is what Don Bacon seems to imply. However, I don’t see anything false in the reports. They are confirmed from many sources, and not contradicted by anything I’ve seen. If Don has something, I’d love to see it.
Would Porchenko have done that without permission from the USA? I highly doubt it. So how will Trump and his handlers handle this situation if Ukraine declares war on Russia?
That Porchenko is going to declare martial law after this incident I’m thinking that he did this so that he could crack down on the people who don’t want to see him be reelected.
Permission, or urging? What is being said to him, and by whom, from among our foreign policy Deep State?
We know they brought on the Georgia War in visits there just before that outbreak of lunacy. Are they doing it again, this time to Ukraine?
I wish the Russians would just get it over with and wax these guys already.
It seems the only way out. The West will keep fanning this flame, as it did in Syria, until it is put out by force. Not smart, but it is what it is.
I assign that to the West because it paid for those boats, of a design it also paid for to give to Uzbekistan. It is all of a pattern, and we’ve seen it in many places before so it is not a mystery.
Would be great to see the Ukrainians get their butts kicked by the Russkies.
Seems inevitable. I’m not sure it will make the region or world a better place, but they do seem to be begging for the kicking.
Certainly not, thousands (best case) would die.
So? We’ve killed at least 500,000 people in Iraq/Afghanistan. And Ms. Albright said it’s okay if 500,000 Iraqi kids were to die. Please do not apply double-standard.
This is actually good. Russia can use Ukraine’s declaration of war to justify a full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Disarm Ukraine’s military, wipe out the neo-Nazi battalions, execute the oligarchs, install a puppet regime – then instantly turn around and go home.
This would result in Ukraine being relatively quiet for a few years and unable to do anything against the Donbass regime. The US and NATO could do absolutely nothing because it would all be over within a week before either could react to assist Ukraine.
It would give the West a propaganda victory allowing it to claim “Russian aggression”, but who cares? The West already blames “Russian aggression” for the Donbass war. Russia won’t lose anything by doing what it is already accused of doing. “If you have the Devil’s name, play the Devil’s game.”
The EU and others pretending Crimea didn’t have an internationally-observed referendum and join the Russian Federation doesn’t change the fact that it happened. Being Russian territorial waters, Russia’s actions are entirely legal and appropriate to defend their new multi-billion-dollar bridge, which Ukrainian officials have threatened to destroy.
“NATO said Stoltenberg expressed the U.S.-led military alliance’s “full support for Ukraine’s territorial integrity and sovereignty, including its full navigational rights in its territorial waters under international law.”
What? Since when is NATO authorized to support the territorial integrity and sovereignty of a non-member?
This is sheer insanity and Stoltenberg must be fired for his unauthorized attack on Russia.
From day one I have understood why Putin annexed the Crimea at that time. It is in the Russian national interest that the Crimea must never become a NATO base for warships at Sevastopol and a land based military airport for NATO bombers and fighter planes. Perhaps the move was too precipitous but it was not irrational. Better safe than sorry.
There is a very simple solution for this issue. Accept Russia’s annexation of the Crimea and renegotiate free passage through the Strait of Kerch including passage of Ukrainian warships with restricted tonnage in peacetime. (1) No NATO ships.
To make sure where I stand: Putin’s domestic policies are abominable. They are supported by a majority of Russians who are understandably tired of the three R’s of rebellion, revolution, regime change beginning 100 years ago.
(1) Alternative: go around the Crimea.
Something reeks here. I don’t think we have the whole story yet. My Gulf-of-Tonkin-sense is tingling.
Who paid for those new boats. Why? Who suggested this operation? Who encouraged it?
Why did they so ostentatiously do it without filing the normal paperwork for transit under a bridge? Russia always files it to go through the Dardanelles.
Imagine the doodoo we would have been in if Ukraine had been a NATO member.
Like the Dardanelles the Strait of Kerch is not an international waterway. It is a Russian waterway which Russia can close to warships if it suspects that Ukrainian warships are conducting electronic espionage.
This is the first really big international test for the Trump administration. It cannot be solved with bluster.
The US, using Ukraine, is challenging Russian sovereignty in the Sea of Azov similar to the way it is challenging China sovereignty in the South China Sea. It’s just what a self-styled world hegemon does.
What are they going to do if Russia takes them seriously?
Where are they going to live in exile when Russian tanks occupy Kiev?
This is stupid. Nobody is going to come fight their war for them after they declare it.
This is the Georgia lunacy all over again.
As for those boat, that was a deliberately done provocation. They openly refused to make the application for transit required to pass under the bridge, and that is provided for in international law, the same as the Turkish straits, and other congested “international waters” inside the zone of a nation.