With talks scheduled tomorrow in Switzerland over the ongoing fighting in the Syria, the military is looking to secure some last-minute gains, with heavy Syrian and Russian airstrikes providing an opening for Syrian forces in the north of Aleppo to advance deeper into the city.
The airstrikes over the past week have resulted in large civilian casualties in the eastern portion of the city, which is largely held by the Nusra Front. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights confirmed heavy strikes today but offered no figures on new casualties.
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad today reiterated that his government intends to reclaim Aleppo militarily. The city was Syria’s industrial and financial capital before the civil war, but has been heavily contested since 2012, with huge amounts of damage and large death tolls, leaving open the question of how valuable to city is in the near term.
Assad said he hopes the conquest of Aleppo would provide a “springboard” for more military victories around the country. It’s unclear what the next targets would be if indeed this is successful, but it would likely allow Syria to refocus on fighting in Hama Province.
I really thought hard before writing this. I want to make sure that the editor Jason Dietz knows that I am, like many on this site, grateful for this site, and grateful for the opportunity for public to be better informed and become better citizens.
But I would like to beg of you to reconsider — what has become a permanent refrain in your texts — to discuss Aleppo as just another contested area in civil war. Is this a civil war? The group that has from the beginning occupied many inner cities, or large suburbs — is Al-Qaeda. Under whatever new name. The people of those areas occupied by terrorists are victims to which we pay no attention. By saying it is a civil war, we imagine a citizens on both sides occupying barricades, and fighting for their cause. Is this what is going on in East Aleppo? That is the picture politicians and the totally controlled media are pushing on us. But consider the reality. The population of terrorist occupied Aleppo is kept there against their will. They have for years being subjected to hunger — as militants commandeer food. They have been subjected to executions, for “infractions” of the extremist cult-like norms of these fanatics. Their daughters they hide any way they know how, just to avoid them being taken for “marriage” to militants. How many of those committed suicide, begging to be returned to their parents? How many boys have been kidnapped and forced to fight for this cult? All the possessions of the inhabitants have been taken from them long time ago — to be used for procuring necessities through smuggling routes.
Does the Western leadership and the utterly criminal media really believe that the truth can be hidden? That these people do not have any means of communication with the other side of the city? Al-Qaeda used to allow people to cross to the Government side only on humanitarian grounds, like funerals, but their families would be under threat if they did not come back. Now, even this is not allowed. Do we really think that the crimes committed by terrorists can stay hidden, and that our years-long support of “rebels” is not going to be revealed as the support of subjecting the population to fate by far worse of those suffered in Warsaw ghetto? Do we really hope to stall the process, to confuse it, to blame the liberators with war crimes — all that to somehow avoid being accomplices in this tragedy?
We continue with the illusion that this is a civil war. If so, who are the sides in this civil war? We are supposedly supporting oppressed Sunnis against the tyranny of Shia? Sunnis of Syria are fighting for the regime for a simple reason — they are the most prosperous of all communities in Syria, the most educated, and the most Westernized. Sunni women, along with Christian and Palestinian women, the most westernized as compared to other population — especially poorer rural Shia. Assad’s army has been and is, majority Sunni. The sheer magnitude of Islamic cult invasions on their country from different directions overwhelmed the institutions of the state, and the drumbeat of Western media — portraying the defenders of the people, as brutal murderers of their own people — leaves one speechless.
But one thing — if nothing — I would like to beg of you, to stop mentioning the Aleppo as something not worth fighting for. Yes, it is in ruins — but there are thousands of human beings there — waiting DESPARATELY to be freed. Emaciated, scared, hiding their children in walled off spaces, dying without medical help, dying in childbirth, babies dying from poor nutrition, from dirty water, and often the lack of ability to boil the water.
Let us be human beings first. Let us have mercy, compassion and pray for the suffering of innocents — whatever religion we believe in, or do not believe in any — and hope that their ordeal ends soon. This is not a battle of “factions” in civil war. It is a battle of humanity against the unbound barbarity. Everything in us — forgetting the politics and geopolitics — needs to revolt against prolonging this agony. We owe it to ourselves to be informed, to speak the truth that our own humanity demands. I beg you to consider those suffering humans before we so coldly talk about the ruins of Aleppo.
It is not a civil war. The majority of the takfiiris are foreigners – Libyans, Chechens, Uighars, Palestinians, Saudi Arabians, etc etc. They have also brought their familis with them, and are effectively using them as human shields.
‘Syrian Perspective’ has regular casualty lists including nationalities.
Yes, you know this, I know this — and millions of people know this. Yet, how on earth can we even on this Antiwar site repeat the lie that this is a civil war. And worse yet, the lie that somehow in Aleppo there are two sides in civil war, thus giving the Al-Qaeda terrorists equal rights to the Government that is trying to free people that have been hostages inside East Aleppo for years. Aleppo is nothing to us any more then a ruin not worth fighting for. Really, and what about the people who are not allowed to leave. Who have been shot for trying to leave?
Their stories do not interest anyone. I listened with an utter disgust the last presidential election when that moronic woman from CNN in her perfectly pitched propaganda voice, told us about the millions of people who saw the picture of a dazed child in East Aleppo — making a case that the Syrian Army and Russian Air Force, are criminals for trying to free up the hostages, including that boy. Who is going to tell their story? We know that just recently they beheaded a boy. And only some such anecdotes come to us — unlinked, dispersed among thousand of such barbarities. And then, there is East Aleppo, the symbol of resistance, brave people manning barricades… And then, the Propaganda machine props up a symbol, accuses rescuers, and the terrorists become — their victims. I could not believe it — but with Trump that understands the bigger picture in defeating terrorist — but weak on details, such propaganda monsters get away. Clean getaway. More ordinary people could debate Syrian issue then our presidential candidates — with one of them protected by the media propaganda, and another, with solid common sense, but unable to shove into their faces the lies they dare sell as truth.
People in East Aleppo mean nothing to anyone — they can hide their children into caverns of tunnels that the city has become. Hide them, or else their girls will become “brides” of those monsters, and bear their children. Or boys, forced to fight, or be beheaded.
What can one say to shame those that shame do not posses? What can one do — if one cannot touch their right to lie and keep us ignorant. Nothing. Plain nothing.
“Yet, how on earth can we even on this Antiwar site repeat the lie that this is a civil war”
It meets the historical definition of a civil war. It’s taking place within one country, for control of that country. Are foreign fighters and foreign interests involved? Sure — just as they were in the Spanish Civil War.
The lie that it’s a lie that the civil war in Syria is a civil war is a distraction. At some point it stops seeming like an inadvertent one.
you must be joking ! you , conveniently , forgot to mention ‘between the people of the country .
In the Spanish civil war, some of the combatants were foreigners (Germans and Italians on Franco’s side, various international brigades and Russian “advisors” on the Republican side). And of course there were Spaniards on both sides of the Spanish civil war.
Likewise in the Syrian civil war, some of the combatants on both sides are foreigners, and some are Syrians.
That it is in some ways a proxy war for the foreign forces involved is true. That doesn’t magically make it not a civil war.
“Some” are Syrians. Find them. The only Syrians that were motivated to take up arms were those who were threatened by the terrorists. Thus, Christian militia, Shia militia, Turkmen at the border, Assyrians, Kurds, and Government allied Sunni groups. Find Syrians that were motivated by and continued to fight against the government because of the atrocities of the regime. Name a group that is not a terrorist group wanting to establish Caliphate and introduce Mecca-based Sharia — that is politically opposed to the government out of a principled stand? None. Once there was a Free Syrian Army that US supported as the first great hope of Syria. What happened there? What happened is that US left them at the mercy of Al-Nusra, or ISIS — and their real motivation was to prevent Kurds along the Turkish border to ethnically cleanse them, and establish a contiguous state. Today, most of the splinters of Free Syrian Army have flocked to Turkey, as they see Turkey as the only guarantee against the Kurdish ethnic cleansing. The motivation of various groups was thus borne out of the conflict and out of the inability of state armed forces to defend its territory. In that environment, various self-help groups started, and some of them took US money. But their motivation was not great in fighting Syrian Army — that was what US wanted, or Saudi Arabia or whoever.
Now, with Turkey’s determined fight against Kurdish contiguous state is brining many of those “opposition” groups into Turkish camp to fight for what they see as the problem the weak Assad forces could not tackle.
“Find them. … Name a group …”
Unlike you, I don’t avail myself of the luxury of just making shit up to fit my own narrative.
what is ‘magical’ is the fact that you refuse to acknowledge the legal definition of ‘civil war’ or the Oxford dictionary of the civil war. in my opinion no one is that stupid. hence , you have an agenda and no amount of reasoning whit you will make a difference. good day sir.
Why would I “acknowledge” something that hasn’t been brought up?
The Oxford definition is “a war between citizens of the same country,” and the war in Syria clearly falls under that definition (yes, external actors are supporting various sides, but so are Syrians).
There is no THE “legal definition” of civil war. A “legal” definition implies a framework recognized and adhered to by all parties. Last time I checked, at least some of the parties were not, for example, UN members bound by that organization’s charter or treaties.
Well, no amount of data or logic will change your spin. But keep in mind — US foreign policy has been a disaster in Iraq and Syria. It cynically armed different groups to fight each other. It involved arming different groups in Iraq, and then spreading the armed and religiously radicalized cults into Syria.
Such foreign policy that is toying with nations, their borders, their institutions, and their history — has come to its logical conclusion. Multi-dimensional failure.
But instead of understanding the failure, getting out of it with a reasonable assurance that American interests will not be hurt, our gamblers in the government are going for broke. And it is so obvious — the rage coming out is a result of bad decisions.
Even today, while rhapsodizing at length of the horrors of Aleppo, and blaming Russia for not going after ISIS or even after Al-Nusra, but after the “moderate” people. Who are these moderate groups in Aleppo? Please, I would like to know! The Secretary of State until today cannot name them — and that is absolutely amazing. Besides Al-Nusra, there is Army of Conquest, and one more — but that one recently made a run for it, and is now under Turkish control. So, he — and all his friends, need to either name the “good” guys, or just sit this one out, and not be in the way. On the last count there are about 200,000 thousand people left in East Aleppo, many have escaped — so the West Aleppo is now twice the size. The size of the groups — not easy to tell.
UN Representative for Syria has put it best: ” tens of thousands of people have no right to hold hostage over 200,000 people”. He is again offering the surrender with dignity, allowing them to take their arms with them. He has pointed out the safe corridors that have been established for civilians by Syrian and Russian forces, as well as the readiness of humanitarian workers to receive them. All that is needed now, is for Al-Nusra and the Army of Conquest to let people go.
In the meantime, the autistic John Kerry and his equally lost counterpart Boris Johnson — are lamenting over the fate of “good” terrorists. The difference in the comprehension between the UN, Russia, Syria and Turkey on one side — and the blustering Kerry, cannot be greater.
The propaganda value of “Assad must go” rhetoric is founded on the illusion that in Syria — there is a civil war. So, if there is a civil war, the illusion goes, then clearly the Government is against at least some of its people. But — if we do not have the civil war, but groups of terrorists that took advantage of the overwhelmed police and military — to capture townships, villages, city quarters,, etc. — then we have an EXTERNAL aggression. Because whoever has sponsored those groups, armed them, trained them, given them money, food, transport, telecom, and even intelligence — is the aggressor.
However you look at it, none of these groups existed in Syria before, and then within days of the protests, sprung into violent action all across Syria. To cover up the aggression part, it is thus necessary to talk about “civil war”, and supposedly only after the war started, others got involved. Wrong. This is what the “civil war” deception accomplishes — it makes us believe that the population is divided in different camps. No such thing. The only division exists between terrorist groups — whatever their origin is — and their masters and financiers, and the rest of Syrian population. There are by now a lots of documentaries on the life of civilians under ISIS, as well as how the life inside ISIS group looks like. There are no secrets, even though, our media does not report. All it still has is the carefully spun narrative of a civil war, brutal regime killing his people who oppose him in this civil war, and of good, heroic “moderate” opposition that nobody ever saw or heard off.
Today, was probably one of the most bizarre days in this saga. Fighting against the holed up terrorists and trying to liberate the town — is proclaimed the biggest humanitarian disaster since WWII. But the process of getting into East Aleppo is going apace, with only limited air support, but attacking from both the north and the south to spread Al-Qaeda thin. Knowing that they are in trouble, today they took an aim at the West Aleppo, hitting randomly on residential area — clearly to inflict civilian deaths. Do not count on White House spokespeople to be aware of the deliberate attack on civilians by “good” and “moderate” friends of theirs.
The story is getting stale. Now, we will probably see US prodding YPG to stop Turkey forces advance into Al-Bab — and then on to ISIS, as this was the route that US tried to secure for Kurds to connect their two parts of Rojava. ISIS really was nothing else but a place holder. But Kurds may think hard about this one. As Turkey now has collected around it many lose militant groups from along the Turkish border, and many former Free Syrian Army groups. Kurds may not want to antagonize them, as they need to live next to them once peace has been established.
With the battle for Mosul starting, US needs to reexamine its position in the area — due to many wrong footed and arrogant decisions, now is just tripping over its own feet.
Seems to me you are calling for anti-war.com to go down the same path our mainstream media has chosen, of dictating the morality of a situation to us rather than at least trying to report it in reasonably objective terms. The war in Syria most definitely is a civil war, though it is one largely sustained by foreign interference. As such, it’s best to refer to it as such, rather than try to choose alternative terms to try to semantically load the story the way we might want it to be loaded.
Nor, imo, is your heavy handed emotionally browbeating focus on the suffering victims of one particular side particularly useful. Again, this is the same approach our mainstream media use to try to propagandise in favour of their preferred policies of interventionism. Mass slaughter and suffering is the essence of war, and it is invariably inflicted by both sides. Though I do see the Syrian conflict as one with a “good” side and a “bad” side, because one side – the US-backed regime changers – are aggressors and the others responding defensively to that aggression, nevertheless I would never be so childishly naive as to think that the Syrian government side are in any way angelic or that they do not slaughter innocents en masse to achieve their goals. That’s war for you.
Nicely put.
I am calling for Antiwar.com — and with all due respect for what they have done already — to just stop relying on mainstream terminology that is misleading or even propagandistic.
Syrian war is NOT a civil war. There is no definition of civil war that one can apply here. It was from the beginning an attempt to take over the country by installing terrorist groups, overwhelming police and military, while simultaneously, making it difficult to attack terrorists — as they held population hostage. Good formula for taking over a country, especially if you then bombard the airwaves against the defenders of the country, as responsible for the terrorism. But just because IT IS NOT a civil war, such terror group approach to regime change, cannot succeed. It has no popular support. People may be occupied by terrorists, but what will happen when you actually allow them to vote? So, the problem is solved this way — Assad must go. The Army must go, all the institutions must go. There, that would take care of that pesky vote in the hands of population. Such diktats from the outside, arming and politically supporting terrorists from the outside — that is no civil war. And all the problems with negotiating with Russia , boils to the same issue — population should not have the right to vote. Once the goal of removing the regime is accomplished — you can vote all you want. Like in Ukraine.
The essence of this is a deliberate regime change, and the terrorism became “rebellion”. The government, just another “faction”.
The city of Aleppo, its Eastern side, besides being in ruins — is a place of an enormous human tragedy. Civilian hostages that suffered for years under Al-Qaeda are now on the verge of being liberated. But — that cannot stand, as it ruins the whole narrative. Liberators are thus portrayed as reckless idiots that have nothing better to do, but en masse killing population. I do not feel like being an accomplice to this deception.
Civil war does not exist when parts of cities, townships or villages have been taken over by terrorist groups and religious cults — a vast majority of them not Syrians. Cults and terrorist groups do not represent people in a civil war. They are not the voice of people in the civil war. They work for themselves and their sponsors. And thus, NOT a civil war, by any definition.
Occupied population does have a voice, once liberated. How many times have we read in media about liberated population, and the ordeal they went through. I have not seen any, except on RT. No intrepid journalist from CNN deigned to go there and talk to those that were rescued? Of course not Only when such inconvenient news come of beheadings, organ eating, or cutting a child by a chain saw. And even then, no group was particularly stained by such reports.
That is not a civil war — that is anti-civilizational war, subjugating people to something we see in Star Wars, or other science fiction. In Syria, science fiction has been overshadowed by the creativity of cruelty. Those, I hope, you like me, do not see as parties in a “civil war”. Subjugated population is not a party in any war. They are not willingly supportive of the terrorists — and those terrorists do not represent them.
In Syria, there is no opposition — armed or not — that is actually supported by population. That is the illusion that mainstream media is trying to sell in describing East Aleppo, and they should not be allowed to sell such lies. Where is the opposition? In Idlib? Hama? The collection of dozens of nationalities that came to Syria being now concentrated there as Syria cut deals with them, giving them transport to the place for future determination where they can go. Will US take them? Probably yes, as Hillary is getting ready to approve tens of thousands refugees. Keep in mind, that Syrians will go home once a war is over, but these foreign fighters in this “civil war” will not have anywhere to go. Their own countries have a legislation that punishes anyone for participating in foreign wars. So, they will have to be absorbed somehow.
There is not a single “rebel” group that has not committed atrocities against the population they hold or held as hostages.
None.
Period.
We are not talking of the victims of shelling, civilian casualties of war. We are talking here of hard core atrocities, all well recorded, and with witnesses. That will not be forgotten or forgiven. Of course, it will disappear as an issue, if “Assad goes”.
We are hopefully not going now to quibble that Al-Qaeda — under whatever name — is not a terrorist organization? And that it has any popular support, save their family members? Or are we now going to argue that ISIS is also not a terrorist organization? Yet, we are defending Al-Qaeda’s presence in Aleppo as if it was a spontaneous uprising against “regime”. Good luck with that one.
Nobody really wants to talk graphically of the suffering, we have enough of it from mainstream media and their crocodile tears. But — let us not fall into the trap mainstream media is laying out there.
Ignoring Aleppo inhabitants is a trap. Ignoring them — makes it easier to blame Assad Army and Russian air force for lack of regard for human life. Those brutal Russians! What is completely (accidentally?) overlooked, is the desperate sense of urgency — as the life of hostages is getting worse by the day. Now that Al-Qaeda is losing — they are more cruel to population then ever. Everyone is a spy, everyone is viewed as an enemy.
What is the solution? Negotiate with Al-Qaeda? It has been tried, Syria offered them exit, and safe corridors for both militants and population. We know how that ended. By blocking exits and killing those that tried to flee. The plan that Turkey and Russia came up with may be more successful, and they may be more receptive to turning themselves in to Turkey.
In countless articles here I found a repeating refrain — what is the point of all those Russian bombings and Syrian army shelling, when the city is of no value to any “faction”.
The rubble of East Aleppo does matter. Both Russian air operations and Syrian ground operations are driven by this urgency.
The farce that so called “White Helmets” was, had disabused us from hoping that propaganda has some intelligence in it. The pictures of White Helmets standing on bodies of dead people — took care of that. As well as the would be terrorist in Berlin, another White Helmet from Idlib.
Why has not one western leader issued a call to Al-Nusra to unconditionally let the population leave? Not one — a disturbing fact in itself.
By complete silence on this very heated issue dominating the politics today — we are being hypocritical. Because it appears that our priority is DEFENDING Al-Qaeda, CONDEMNING their victims to anonymity, and ACCUSING their rescuers of war crimes and senseless killing of civilians en masse.
So, in one stroke, one little boy of Aleppo became the symbol of the poor population under siege, defending the barricades against the Syrian Army and Russian Air Force! Indeed! And we are to swallow this!
We need to say it clearly — Aleppo is the battle between international terrorist organization, Al-Qaeda, and Syrian Army. And the battle is for freeing tens of thousands of people who have suffered incredible barbarism during occupation. Who should be asked to cease and desist? I think it is high time to be tough on terrorists and if we cannot help — at least allow Syria to liberate itself.
And of course, I would expect that Thomas L. Knapp would approve your assessment. Life is amazingly predictable.
All I wanted to say is that I wholeheartedly agree with the two previous commentators below. I could not have said it better. They have a good understanding of the realities of this war against barbarism. There is nothing ‘civil’ about it. Go to my blog Contraviews. contraviewing.blogspot.com for more.