The second presidential debate has come and gone, and while once again foreign policy didn’t play a huge role in the overall discussion, what was to be said appears to have seen the whole of America’s foreign policy goals coalesce neatly around Russia-bating.
Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton was quick to blame Russia for anything and everything, from the refugee crisis in Europe to Republican nominee Donald Trump’s campaign, making very specific point of talking about confronting Russia militarily.
And while accusing Russia of flooding Europe with Middle Eastern refugees and of hacking the elections to Trump’s benefit got the ball rolling, the discussion largely centered on the northern Syrian city of Aleppo, with Clinton accusing Russia of a “determined effort” to destroy the city, and vowing to “hold Russians accountable for war crimes.”
Clinton talked of arming Syrian rebels, and imposing a no-fly zone over the whole of Syria, which would in effect attempt to militarily deny Russia access to Syrian airspace. She insisted that this would grant the US military leverage over Russia that would force them to the negotiating table.
While imposing a no-fly zone would be an act of war against Syria, and necessarily spark a military conflict with Russia, Clinton attempt to be a bit evasive about specifics beyond that, insisting that she “would not use American ground forces in Syria.”
As with the Obama Administration, the no ground troops pledge appeared to be pretty vaguely defined, as Clinton then rattled off an array of ground troops she would use in Syria, including special forces, trainers, and “enablers.”
Donald Trump touched the question of Russia a lot less, but did accuse of Russia of having “gone wild with their nuclear program.” He did, however, say that he disagrees with his running mate, Gov. Pence, who argued for military action against Syria and Russia in Aleppo.
Trump insisted the war needs to remain focused on ISIS, and warned that neither Clinton nor anyone else really knows who these rebels they want to arm are, saying that backing the rebels risks putting an even worse force in power in Syria. He cited Libya as an example of this.
Hillary also denied Russia was fighting ISIS, claiming they were ‘only’ attacking the rebels.
Trump said Syria, Russia and Iran were all fighting ISIS.
At the end, the debate moderator asked a really stupid question – what happens if Aleppo falls? Excuse me, but I thought Aleppo was a part of Syria that fell to USG-supplied rebels years ago. Shouldn’t the question have been ‘what happens if Aleppo is retaken’? The answer is, jubilation in the streets with joyful Aleppoians carring posters depicting Assad and Putin.
“Shouldn’t the question have been ‘what happens if Aleppo is retaken’?” That’s only because you’re sane and live in the reality based world unlike the unhinged psychopaths in the government and media.
The question that boggles the mind is this — why is media so staunchly defending the government line on Syria? The whole narrative — line, hook and sinker. Would it not make more sense that the media refers to the official line the way reporter will do, that is, make sure that it is clear whose position is that. The way it is done is — as if what they say is the absolute truth that cannot be denied. I am very glad that Trump is not allowing the neocon hysterics to change his high level understanding on what is going on in the region.
He also pointed out that the story of Aleppo is over. Veru good observation. He has good advisers, clearly. The agony can last a bit longer, since nobody is even asking Al-Nusra to let civilians go — or asking them to leave. But Syrian forces are already in East Aleppo and as the terrorists are surrounded — with no new cease fires and White Helmets to resupply them, they cannot last much longer. It does appear that civilians and even groups associated with Al-Nusra are finding the way to flee. Some of these groups are seeking the protection of Turkey. Turkey is staying put right now — absorbing the fleeing groups. There are no more ceasefires, and no agreements, so it will probably remain unclear how and when will the operation turn to Raqqa.
Because the “media” are the presstitutes of the masters – the masters being Wall Street, MIC and AIPAC. The two parties are just their slave.
Bianca,
Other questions: 1.Why are we allowing Saudi Arabia to bomb Yemen? If it is a war, it is damn sure a one-sided one; 2. Why are we kissing Israel’s butt – they are clearly another Union of South Africa; 3. What are our end-game goals for Afghanistan and Iraq? Victory is not an option, and never was.
But, I guess such issues are too adult for America, so lets talk about potty rooms and others’ pee-pees
Yes, the government, the media…. but you forgot the main group the millions of sheeple
Ah, the stupid propaganda infotainment that the sheeple think is a debate!
Unfortunately, Trump is too stupid to think like this. Trump had the best opportunity to really lay out the chaos Hillary and Obama caused in Syria and that it is them who are on the wrong side of History.
Hillary Clinton came across as positively insane on foreign policy. As if the goal of a nation’s foreign policy is to start wars, threaten, arm somebody — even if we do not know who they are, and sort of not mention that our friends and allies are supporting the very people we then fight/pretend to fight. She is basically risking a war with a nuclear armed Russia, over the fact that it dared to bring Al-Qaeda to heel, and because she needs someone to blame her e-mail problems on.
Her whole demeanor is aggressive on foreign policy. She turned issues upside down. So, the approaching Syrian victory over Al-Qaeda, whatever the latest name is, and their affiliated Salafi groups — brought all that fury and the claims of war crimes. For fighting these “nice” terrorist groups we insist calling “rebels”. And that to our humanitarians never occurred to tell the terrorists inside Aleppo to lay down arms, and allow population to leave.
Trump showed that he understands the bigger picture. She was a typical neocon, aggressive to the bone, he pointed out to the main flow in her thinking. The idea is to fight terrorists — ISIS, Al-Qaeda, and their affiliated groups. Hillary did not think of that — she would fight Russia. Trump correctly pointed out to her that there is a battle going on now in Syria, and Syrian army, Russia and Iran are fighting ISIS. Dealing with the political process comes later, to insure that Syria does not go permanently into failed state category.
It is also amazing how the moderators actually took the narrative of the horrors of Aleppo boy, sitting dazed in an ambulance car. And made this a symbol of horrors of war, and the regime brutality. Yet, countless kids that were killed by those “good” rebels — never counted. Or the ones that have for years been drowning in the Mediterranean due to her Libya policy.
Yet, all these events faded the moment Russia and Syria succeeded in pushing various terrorist groups back, and surrounded them. Now — it is no longer important to fight terrorism — now it is by far more important to not let Russia win.
The problem is, she is just trying to give a narrative that we will buy, but she is devotee of Neocon global vision, and that is what really matters to her. Not Syria, not any children.
accusing Russia of flooding Europe with Middle Eastern refugees…
A crisis that began after the illegal war the Bush regime started in
Iraq, and which Clinton voted for. It probably slipped her mind.
Yup, slipped her mind because she is too busy licking boots of Wall Street, MIC and AIPAC….
I agree. It’s easier for a hack career politician like
Clinton to cast blame on concocted bogeymen, rather than
address the ‘real’ issues: Pentagon’s wasteful spending on
perpetual wars, massive $20 trillion debt, rebuilding the
infrastructure, providing a safe and reliable water supply,
alternative energy, militarization of the police violence…
President Clinton may cause an international debacle. President Trump may cause a national disaster. Faites vos jeux messieurs!
The tragedy of Syria is that no faction can now govern it without triggering new civil wars. The only serious question is therefore: are there other solutions?
He kicked her lying ass.Russia caused the European Muslim refugees?Wow.
A pos from hell.
Trump for POTUS.
I grew up and aged into the subject of political sciences as a
student, teacher, and writer in the last 50 years, but I have never seen
any mudslinging election like this! Abraham Lincoln made history with
his “Gettysburg Address” in 1963 which lasted only “two minutes.” By
contrast, last night’s presidential candidates debate lasted nearly two
hours, and it made history in my opinion for being more bordello-ish
than political. The preamble to the debate was about whether Trump’s
daughter Ivanka had breast implants, and whether Robert De Niro wanted
to “punch Trump in the face!” Then came the debate, and Donald Trump
was lashed as guilty for trying to force himself on a woman and
failing, and then came Trump’s complaining why was he guilty for trying,
while Bill Clinton who did it with Jenifer Flowers wasn’t. Then
Clinton lashed him for not paying taxes for 18 years, and Trump retorted
that Clinton was spending the millions of George Soros and Warren
Buffet for her campaign, who would then take tax cuts on those millions
[and shortchange the U.S. Treasury]! Both Trump and Clinton are
corrupt. Trump for declaring bankruptcies and not paying contractors,
then recovering losses by not paying taxes for 18 years, and still not
paying the contractors, while Clinton spend her time sending 33.000
emails to solicit donations for the Clinton Foundation while sitting at
the Secretary of State office on a taxpayers fat salary. Unfortunately,
our -the U.S. democracy- is not Aristotle’s democracy. The political
sciences faculties in most Western universities recognize only the
Scandinavian states as “true democracies.” George Bernard Shaw
correctly thought that: “Democracy substitutes selection by the
incompetent many, for the appointment by the corrupt few!” That’s right!
Governing “by the corrupt few” is like running the circus from the
money cage! The debate was a bombastic circus of lewd insults, and
plenty of gibberish, but pauper in substance.Nikos Retsos, retired
professor
“She insisted that this would grant the US military leverage over Russia that would force them to the negotiating table.”
What she really means is that Putin has to prostrate himself in front of her and accede to all her demands.
Clinton is going to start WWIII
What’s scary is that every time she talks about Russia or a man (Putin) she has that psycho makeover of her facial feataures.