Israeli Army commander and top Likud member Uzi Dayan today warned on Israeli Army Radio that Israel would consider any attempt by the Turkish military to protect future aid ships from attack an “act of war.”
Dayan then added that if Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan attempted to accompany the aid ships personally, as he has reportedly considered “we would not try to take over the ship he was on, but would sink it.” He added that Erdogan’s presence on a future aid ship would also be a casus belli for an Israeli war against Turkey.
Turkey has expressed outrage at last week’s Israeli attack on a Turkish aid ship bound for Gaza, an attack in which Israeli troops killed at least nine civilian aid workers. Israel has insisted that the aid ship was secretly in league with al-Qaeda and has since tried to spin Turkey as the villain for even allowing a ship to try to deliver aid to the besieged strip.
The Israeli killings have only increased the number of groups planning attempts to deliver aid, and Israeli officials have promised to stop all these attempts militarily as well.
The explicit threat of war against Turkey is something new, however. While Israel starts wars with a casualness rarely seen in other nations, an attack on Turkey, a key NATO member with an enormous military, would be something quite different from a monthlong attack on the Gaza Strip or blowing up metro Beirut with air strikes.
I think the leadership in the Israeli government has gone completely bonkers. They want to start a war with Turkey, a member of the NATO alliance with a well trained military, to prevent the people of Gaza from geting shoes, medicine, wheelchairs, and concrete. They are absolutely insane!
If they are not insane, they are gripped by a hubris that truly is boundless. We already know the US will back up Israel. The question is whether or not the rest of NATO ignores an Israeli attack on Turkey.
Israeli leadership is anything but insane, they simply concluded it is time to remind junior and official members of NATO who is REALLY in charge and decision making.
That's putting it mildly. However, as the world, and especially the USA, have allowed this attack upon civilians to go unanswered, it is not only justifying the murderous attack, but it is greenlighting any and all future-attacks on all flotillas to come.
What can the people of Gaza do now? Will there be any real help for them, or will we continue to watch while they starve and die from water-borne illnesses, while Israel gets fatter, fuller, and more confident that they can act however it sees fit and with impunity?
It's past time for all NATO members to finally let this (insane) zionist government that we're done with this behaviour!
It would be interesting to see if USA come to defend Turkey since they're both NATO or defend Israel against a NATO member. What to do what to do?? USA just dug themselves a deep hole that they can't recover from.
Israel only ever attacks targets that it thinks are defenceless, and then it usually loses.
War against Turkey is not an option and Israel knows it.
srael only ever attacks targets that it thinks are defenceless, and then it usually loses.
Just like its Amerikan Sugar Daddy.
If the government of Israel does not want to be demonized, they should stop committing demonic acts, like imposing a starvation blockade on the innocent men, women and mostly children of Gaza.
They are demonized because they are demons
How could they when Jews took their land, killed their people. Calling people antisemite because they criticize Jews is not going to stop people from doing it, instead it will just infuriate them.
War criminals and despots are "Demons" no matter their religion.
Israel I believe has finally reached their " A Bridge Too Far."
Shooting kids and old women and unarmed demonstrators while your starving them is one thing, but threatening to kill by sinking his ship, a head of state of a militarily powerful NATO country is quite another.
Hell, they couldn't even deal with Hizbolla when Israel attacked Lebanon. They are going to take on the Turkish Navy? Good Luck on that one.
armed settlers IDF standbyes harass palestinian school kids
armed settlers IDF stand bye bulldoze olive groves and palestinian crops
Water for israeli swim pools, none for palestinians to drink
ethnic cleansing of Jerusalem, generations are evicted for new settlements
Israeli checkpoints to stop palestinians seeking medical care
Apartheid wall to divide and forcibly confiscate Palestinian farms, ruled illegal by the International criminal Court and Israeli courts
But nooooa, dont criticize the Israeli fascist campaign. Its anti-semitism …….??
Pariah Redux,
Not withstanding your support of all things Israeli, including mass murder, Turkey should not be intimidated by these thugs and buffons. If the Turks truly believe that international law is on their side, which it clearly is, then they should do the right thing and send warships to escort aid to starving people, especially children. If the monsters in the Likud party wish to attack Turkey, then they deserve the consequences of such an action.
You are a liar. Nobody takes you seriously. You have no sympathy for the Palestinians and see them as untermenschen. People who read this site are againt their own governments mass killing of people as well as Israel's. In fact if it wasn't for our support of that apartheid state, Israel wouldn't be able to commit the evil acts it does.
Liar? Really? Whatever you have been smoking, save some for me. The weekend approaches! Goldhorder, perhaps you should submit your application for a position at Clowns R Us…………..
Cool, not a single argument in his reply, just insults. Oh wait, that's normal because the Israel crows doesn't really have any arguments – they know they are wrong.
I am a Jew against Zionism and against the policies of Israel. However, if I read any comments on here with a positive rating calling for the destruction of Israel, or any country, by nuking or whatever, I would never visit a site called "antiwar."
If anyone makes a popular comment calling for the destruction of Israel, please point it out. I fear, however, that you are just delusional.
(Hamas recently refused humanitarian goods on purely political grounds. Do they care much about the plight of the average Gazan?)
Zionists (Hertzl,et al) similarly refused relocation of Holocaust survivors to
locations other than Palestine, did they care about the average European
displaced person?
"The volcano…that erupts at times like this highlights the evil…element among Israel's critics"
It does sometimes look like an orgy, and I wish it would tone down. It's not evil people, though. They really see a bully getting away with murder over a great many years and exploiting their own country in the process.
"you don't condemn the posters here who call for the nuking of Israel "
I just assumed he was Israeli. What other kind of moron would do that?
"…. (peacefully) disembowel their Israeli captives."
Now I think you're either being disingenuous or you bought a bridge. Is there a third option?
Pariah,
If Hamas did refuse aid on political grounds, then they are just as guilty as the murdering fanatics in the Likud party. I spare no one here, the Israeli gov't, Hamas, Fatah, they all have a hand in this unspeakable evil. However, both Hamas and the Likud party are the democratically elected gov'ts of both factions and must therefore be dealt with on that basis. If you don't support mass murder, which you claim you don't, then cheerleading Bibi is not an option. His policies are not about Israeli security, they are about killing and removing as many Palestinians as possible from the region, thereby stealing as much land as Israel can steal. There is no ambiguity on where Likud and Hamas stand in relation to this mess. I stand with Israelis and Palestinians (peace movement) who have had enough of this lunacy and who truly want to forge a lasting peace with the other. Where do you stand?
The National Socialists were also "democratically elected". Did that achievement merit anyone's respect? Should they not have been challenged? And how can you liken Hamas to the Likud? Hamas seeks to annihilate an entire state and its people, and has codified as much.
If Bibi's policies were about "killing and removing as many Palestinians as possible from the region", why hasn't he massacred them or expelled them? Why do you allow yourself the freedom to just make this stuff up? It's shocking how freely and easily Israel's critics spew the wildest, most outlandish accusations.
Nuking anyone is not an option, in my view. But I have made clear where I stand. The ball is in your court.
WTF ! The Israelis are threatening to nuke other countries endlessly or commit nuclear suicide.
Get you head out of your @$$.
just exactly who was disemboweled where and when?
You are not entitled to your own facts sir,
Hamas refused to accept humanitarian goods because it said that all the activists should be released first, and they had not been released when it said that. Hamas was right. It has principles respecting human life, something the Israelis scoff at. A true Jew would always consider all human life sacrosanct. Israelis are fake Jews who ignore the Torah and instead worship the criminogenic Talmud only, WHICH EVEN PERMITS PEDOPHILIA.
DON'T FORGET- THE PEOPLE OF GAZA VOTED IN HAMAS IN A DEMOCRATIC ELECTION. THEY DESERVE WHAT THEY GET.
PAUL
The fanatics in the photo are pathetic. Everything is reductio ad Hitlerum for those people.
Wonder if Oprah needs to go there and deliver some public psychotherapy. Actually she could begin here by casually inviting dementia central ie Daniel Pipes, Allan Dershowitz (mega lier), Eli Wiesel
Yugoslavians were also overtaken by fascist propaganda before Nato ended the pathetic reign of Slobodan Milosovich
The chances of Israel taking on Turkey alone are nil. They would only do it if they knew they could drag the US in on their side- like they always do.
Given real shooting between these two, who wants to take bets on the odds the US would:
a) Honour it's real, actual ally, fulfill its NATO commitments, and aid Turkey (hahahaha), or
b) Stay out of it, or
c) find some rational to redefine Turkey as threat to the national security of the United States? How long before we hear about Turkish nuclear energy experiments? Before Sibel Edmonds is suddenly a hero?
Just how many seconds does everyone think it's going to take before the calls to throw Turkey out of NATO start? I'll bet there's a congressman typing out his echo anti-Turkish rant even as we speak. We will instantly hear all about Armenia, Cyprus, and even Smyrna 1922 if anyone happens to be particularly familiar with the history. Maybe even Xerxes.
Think I'll just hold my breath until that congressman sends out his press release. I know I don't have long to wait.
I've noticed an increasing anti-turkish slant in major "news" magazines in the U.S. such as Newsweek, ever since Erdogan's outspoken comments to Peres at the World Economic Summit. I'm sure the reactionary types in israel and the U.S. are screeching for turkish blood, while the more level-headed, pragmatic types are desperately trying to curtail the irreparable damage being caused by the Burn your Bridges approach of their crazy likudnik/fundamentalist cousins. alienating turkey is a bad move for israel. of course the crazies think they can weather any storm so long as they have the U.S. under their thumb. but they are wrong and the pragmatists know it.
Because you're apparently reading the papers much i guess you would know that the US just want to avoid a nuclear Iran. Because of this, the US made tried to make a deal with Iran where Iran would send most of its nuclear stockpile abroad in return for reactor fuel for its research reactor.
When a deal could not be reached, the US pressed for sanctions to persuade Iran to accept the deal. Obama encouraged Turkey and Brazil to convince Iran to accept the deal, although Clinton said it was a rather futile effort.
A day or so before Turkey and Brazil got Iran to agree to a deal, the statedepartment said that this was Irans absolutely last chance to avoid sanctions. On monday, the day after the deal was made, the US was slightly sceptical to it. On tuesday they thought it could make it harder to pass sanctions in the UN Security council. On Wednesday Brazil and Turkey were colluding with Ahmadinejad and the mullahs.
Yes, I do read the paper, and I remember what they wrote a week ago too!
You got that right. Never has a legislative body been so totally owned by a foreign government (Israel) as the Congress of the United States. They should all have their US citizenship revoked and be deported to Israel.
It has already started. Subtly at first, there were articles of "concern" for "islamic" government, and kind words of support for "secular" generals, with a more then a passing hope that those "secular" generals can find a way to cause a domestic crisis and bring tanks to the streets. It is not working. The Engenekon scandal, clumsy attempts at bringing down the government via court decisions, interference in Turkey's energy interests, and subtle undermining of Turkish-Armenian opening — all have for a while shown the workings of neocons. The attempt at pressuring Azerjbaijan is not going anywhere, and the resolution on Armenian genocide is seen for what it is — a jab at Turkey not a sincere caring for the fate of Armenians. But the visa free regime now in place for Turkish passport holders to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Russia has created a new reality for commerce in the Middle East.
Israel has always been considered a troublemaker and that's why NATO refuses to embrace such a pariah. Israel has already attacked a NATO member Turkey at sea and the US, a NATO member, refuses to help defend another NATO state Turkey. Another confrontation would definitively end NATO (if it doesn't in fact start a world war, which Israel wants). If that happens, Russia would drop an atomic bomb on Tel Aviv which would make the rest of the world rejoice because the world would be a safer place without these troublemakers, who have been making trouble wherever they lived for over 2000 years.
Israel can never be part of NATO (or even an ally of the US) until she first defines her territorial boundaries, something she steadfastly refuses to do. (Gee, I wonder why?)
See: http://original.antiwar.com/giraldi/2010/05/26/th…
There's no country in the world that has more casually, more ruthlessly started more wars in the last half-century than Israel… no, wait, sorry, there's one. But never mind: there's only one country that has more casually, more ruthlessly, and more ineffectively started more wars in the last half-century…
For sure, peas in a genocidal pod. It's a maniacal world…… please help me find
an escape
Find yourself a little backwater, away from the big city. Stock up on rice and canned foods. Learn to garden effectively. Then if things get nasty, move there and live quietly until the elites exhaust themselves in their military competition for dominance and control.
In the past, this has taken about five years, With nukes it'll probably take less than one. And for those who think: Israel is the one with the nukes, ergo Israel must win, …maybe. Maybe not. In fact, maybe just the opposite.
Israel has already alienated the entire world and become a pariah state. The world is ready to turn its back. If Israel goes toe toe toe with Turkey — population 70 million — and doesn't use its nukes, it will have its military capability rapidly diminished, and end up stalemated, massively depleted militarily, and vulnerable. That has always been Israel's Achille's heel: that they cannot sustain a war of any duration.
When they reach that point, it's over. The Arabs will see their chance, and move in to put the world out of the misery the Zionists have inflicted upon it for the last 90 years. Deterrence — the nukes — will have failed, and using them at that point, will only turn defeat into annihilation. But the Israelis will do it anyway. Masada redux. "Suicide by goy", the Jewish "quest" for the last five thousand years.
Einstein said it all. With nukes around, humanity needs to smarten up, cause it's either get smart or get dead.
Granting that there is any plausibility in your plan to sit on the sidelines, you neglect to mention the little backwater should be in the Southern Hemisphere.
"put the world out of the misery the Zionists have inflicted upon it for the last 90 years"
Right, let's just forget about the Great Depression, Nazism, Stalinism, Fascism, the Iron Curtain, Wahhabism, Maoism, rap music, your despicable rantings, and any number of other non-Zionist sources of world misery.
""Suicide by goy", the Jewish "quest" for the last five thousand years"
Your brain cells have been hopelessly compromised by a severe form of self-hatred peculiar to our tribe. It prevents you from placing any blame whatsoever on those who have unjustly demonized, scapegoated, envied, robbed, expelled, murdered, or otherwise persecuted us since ancient times. The blood libel means nothing to you. We've simply had it coming all along. Our crime has been our existence. Right. Gotcha.
"put the world out of the misery the Zionists have inflicted upon it for the last 90 years"
Right, let's just forget about the Great Depression, Adolf, Stalin, Fascism, the Iron Curtain, Wahhabism, Mao, rap music, your despicable rantings, and any number of other non-Zionist sources of world misery.
""Suicide by goy", the )ewish "quest" for the last five thousand years"
Your brain cells have been hopelessly compromised by a severe form of self-hatred peculiar to our tribe. It prevents you from placing any blame whatsoever on those who have unjustly demonized, scapegoated, envied, robbed, expelled, murdered, or otherwise persecuted us since ancient times. The blood libel means nothing to you. We've simply had it coming all along. Our crime has been our existence. Right. Gotcha.
"put the world out of the misery the 2ionists have inflicted upon it for the last 90 years"
Right, let's just forget about the Great Depression, National Socialism, Stalinism, Fascism, the Iron Curtain, Wahhabism, Mao, rap music, your despicable rantings, and any number of other non-2ionist sources of world misery.
""Suicide by goy", the )ewish "quest" for the last five thousand years"
Your brain cells have been hopelessly compromised by a severe form of self-hatred peculiar to our tribe. It prevents you from placing any blame whatsoever on those who have unjustly demonized, scapegoated, envied, robbed, expelled, murdered, or otherwise persecuted us since ancient times. The blood libel means nothing to you. We've simply had it coming all along. Our crime has been our existence. Right. Gotcha.
"put the world out of the misery the 2ionists have inflicted upon it for the last 90 years"
Right, let's just forget about the Great Depression, National Socialism, Stalinism, Fascism, the Iron Curtain, Wahhabism, Mao, rap music, your despicable rantings, and any number of other non-2ionist sources of world misery.
""Suicide by goy", the )ewish "quest" for the last five thousand years"
Your brain cells have been hopelessly compromised by a severe form of self-hatred peculiar to our tribe. It prevents you from placing any blame whatsoever on those who have unjustly demonized, scapegoated, envied, robbed, expelled, murdered, or otherwise persecuted us since ancient times. The blood Iibel means nothing to you. We've simply had it coming all along. Our crime has been our existence. Right. Gotcha.
"put the world out of the misery the 2ionists have inflicted upon it for the last 90 years"
Right, let's just forget about the Great Depression, Nati0nal Socialism, Stalinism, Fascism, the Iron Curtain, Wahhabism, Mao, rap music, your despicable rantings, and any number of other non-2ionist sources of world misery.
""Suicide by goy", the )ewish "quest" for the last five thousand years"
Your brain cells have been hopelessly compromised by a severe form of self-hatred peculiar to our tribe. It prevents you from placing any blame whatsoever on those who have unjustly demonized, scapegoated, envied, robbed, expelled, murdered, or otherwise persecuted us since ancient times. The blood Iibel means nothing to you. We've simply had it coming all along. Our crime has been our existence. Right. Gotcha.
Where are the men in the white jackets!
It is terrifing to think these people have nuclear weapons and that we probably paid for them.
Perhaps they imagine this is a good way to start a war with Iran – any excuse will do.
They need a good slapping down—besides, they are all mouth when it comes to fighting with anyone that can fight back (see Lebanon 2006)
An attack on Turkey would cause Ivan Skavinsky Skavar and Abdul Abulbul Amir to cease their hostilities and turn on the nasty little interloping virus
They suffer only a from of insanity — one well captured in King Richard II's revised self-assessment after finally returning to planet earth. As Shakespeare pens it:
I could be bounded by a nutshell
And count myself a king of infinite space…
Given their obvious objective — continuing expansion and the eventual expulsion or liquidation of the native inhabitants of Palestine — their hysteria over aid flotillas is understandable. These solidarity efforts could stop them in their tracks. It goes without saying that we should all do everything we can to support them.
After Iran, Turkey; after Turkey, Syria…any nation that provides strategic weapons like subs, extended range fuel tanks, stand off cruse missiles, etc. to the Israelis is enabling these loons and is as guilty as they are.
Equally "guilty" perhaps, but much farther away. Israel has managed to surround itself with fairly hostile, large, and powerful armies: gee, If I were in Israel, being "backed-up" by the far away and already much-engaged US, which nation last achieved a military victory in Grenada, well, it doesn't sound like such a good place to live, actually.
post hitler acme germany doesn't have nukes or wmd's (suppossidly),they got kissinger,korean torpedoes and zionistic submarines,for sale,ka-ching
Yeah, yeah, nothing new here – threatening world leaders with impunity – there really is no bottom to Israel's shaming itself. When the Culture Without Consequences belches, America says "Excuse Me." And now they're counting on the US to either change Turkey's position or get dragged into the conflict themselves on you-know-whose side. Just once I wish they were wrong. Just once.
He added that Erdogan’s presence on a future aid ship would also be a casus belli for an Israeli war against Turkey.
If the Turks have self-respect at all or anything left of their traditional martial spirit, they'll dispatch an entire flotilla of aid ships to Gaza, backed up by a sizable portion of their navy. More delicious than watching the Turks call the Israelis' bluff would be watching Israel's Amerikan bitchubine seize up with panic as it is forced to choose between a militarily powerful NATO ally whose cooperation it must have to continue its colonial occupation of Mesopotamia (and to stage its impending assault on Iran) and its Middle Eastern master that will make it suffer political-economic hell if it disobeys.
Of course the reality is that U.S. Criminal Intelligence Apparatus would quickly engineer a coup in Ankara, something that traditionally happens at least once per decade anyway, and let its Tel Aviv masters carry on with murder and mayhem as usual.
Yes, removal of Erdogan by military coup seems the most plausible approach to terminating the growing "Erdogan problem". That said, to be forewarned is to be forearmed, and Erdogan is quite skilled in matters political and will apply that skill to prevent the coup. That will leave Erdogan facing Mossad's plan B. Anyone need to guess what that is?
What is at stake is for Turkey to exercise its right to access to Eastern mediterrenean waters as it is guaranteed by international agreements.
Israel’s blockade of Gaza is illegal and Turkey will want to exercise his option to access international waters.
Whereus Israel has a policy of driving Palestinians from their land by all means including occupation, starvation, ethnic cleansing etc.
If a war breaks out it may favor Israel at the beginning but as war drags on Israel will lose.
Turkey has strategic depth geographically, economically, humanly etc. In other words e few bombs or a few thousand deaths will not shake Turks. If Turkey catches cold Israel will be hospitalized with pnemonia.
Mon Dieux, Montreux!
What wild talk!
And from the Alban Mount we now behold
Our friend of youth, that ocean, which when we
Beheld it last by Calp's rock unfold
Those waves, we follow on till the dark Euxine roll'd
Upon the blue Symplegades …
Byron
You are my son and you should do your homework, little fart.
why ya got an extra,you should probably carry a spare
Confucius say: Beware Symplegades, very nasty clap.
Has Saakashvili condemned the Netanyahu piracy and assassination on the high seas yet, anyone know?
Yeah, right. Next to the US, Georgia is Israel's b*tch. Russia hasn't forgotten how Israel armed Georgia against Russia, and Israel and Georgia both got their faces smashed. The arrogant Likudniks are asking for trouble just like the American jews provoked Hitler when they declared economic war on Germany in 1933 and can anyone guess how Hitler retaliated?
Your hatred of Israel is truly passionate
an artifically inSEMINATED country if ever thare is/was(WAS),)is( one,hope that don't make me an anti in semanite
I guess his is directly proportional to Israel's behavior. Who can blame him when there are so many atrocities committed by Israel, from our lovely Rachel Corrie being wantonly killed to attack of Lebanon in 2006 to Gaza massacre in 2009.., If Israel wants to be loved, then stop bullying others and show more compassion to others, particularly the Palestinians.
the israeli leadership is twisted. the act of war happened a couple weeks ago when israeli commandos killed a dozen people on and aid ship.
"No bird of air, no dove of swiftest wing,
That bears ambrosia to the ethereal king,
Shuns the dire rocks: in vain she cuts the skies;
The dire rocks meet, and crush her as she flies…"
Homer [tr. Pope]
and what about the N.A.T.OO.'s mutual strike anti clauses,all for one & one 4 ?,we'll see,hopefully not,lets just sit around and watch hypocritical pigs starve people to death just for the sadistic glee of it all
"Wherefore now give heed to my exhorting, if in sooth ye
make this voyage with cautious mind and due regard for
the blessed gods ; perish not then senselessly by a death
of your own choosing, nor rush on at the heels of youthful
rashness. First I bid you let loose from the ship a dove,
and send her forth before you to try the way. And if she
fly safely on her wings through those rocks to the sea, no
longer do ye delay your voyage for any time, but stoutly
ply the oars in your hands and cleave through the strait
of sea, for now your life will depend, not so much on your
prayers, as on your stalwart arms. Wherefore leave all
other things alone and exert yourselves bravely to the
utmost ; yet ere you start, I do not forbid you to entreat
the gods. But if the dove be slain right in mid passage,
fare ye back again, for far better it is to yield to the death-
less gods. For then could ye not escape an evil doom at
the rocks, no, not if Argo were made of iron. Ah ! hapless
wights ! dare not to go beyond my warning, although ye
think me thrice as much the foe of the lords of heaven,
aye and even more hateful to them than I really am ; dare
not to sail yet further against the omen…."
Apollonius [tr.Coleridge]
leave him be–he's doing good…
an immersion in the Humanities is what we need as well…
Once out of nature I shall never take
My bodily form from any natural thing,
But such a form as Grecian goldsmiths make
Of hammered gold and gold enamelling
To keep a drowsy Emperor awake;
Or set upon a golden bough to sing
To lords and ladies of Byzantium
Of what is past, or passing, or to come.
WBY
This same Megabyzus got himself an undying remembrance among the Hellespontians by a certain speech which he made. It came to his knowledge, while he was staying at Byzantium, that the Chalcedonians made their settlement seventeen years earlier that the Byzantines. “Then,” said he, “the Chalcedonians must at that time have been laboring under blindess–otherwise, when so far more excellent a site was open to them, they would never have chosen one so greatly inferior”
Herodotus[tr.RWR]
Megabyzus (Old Persian Baghabuxša, "God Saves") was one of the seven noblemen who helped Darius I ascend the throne c. 521 BC.
If you want to keep the mistress (Israel) under control. You have to do something about the sugar-daddy (Congress) in Washington. A word to the wise should be sufficent.
You'd think for all the money we'd given the mistress over the years, the sugar daddy deserves a little satisfaction.
If I were Turkey I would say to the Israelis, "bring it on", and see if the NATO alliance is worth its weight on paper.
The NAZI cowards just bluff, they think that commiting barbaric crimes against defensless population will go on forever.
They hope that their slaves in the US government will prevent Turkey to escort the HUMANITARIAN AIDS..
“CHOSEN NATION” …biggest joke
I wonder which the US will choose:
1. Side with Israel, betray our NATO ally, and lose our air base at Incirlik in Turkey.
2. Side with Turkey, defend our NATO ally, and keep Incirlik Air Base.
3. Remain neutral and hope the Turks don't throw us out of Incirlik on principle (or rather our lack of principle). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incirlik_Air_Base
The US Constitution requires we honor our treaty obligations first and foremost; that means NATO. And keeping such a strategically located Air Force base is definitely in our best interest if Obama is going to continue onward with his never-ending Mid-East wars.
On the other hand, Israel offers … well, what exactly?
Oh, please, when did the chair moisteners in Washington, who deludedly believe themselves statesmen and leaders, ever feel constrained to adhere to The Constitution?
Israel killed 34 American sailors, wounded 171 on the USS Liberty and got away with it; attacking Turkey and Erdogan is much simpler PR endeavor for AIPAC.
As long as, our Congress remains an Israeli-occupied territory, Israel will get away with any crime. Don’t dream of holding the Israelis accountable, as long as, they maintain their stranglehold on the American main stream media. Brain-washing Joe-Six-Pack has always been top priority of the American Zionists. Arial Sharon was very candid when he admonished Shimon Peres:
"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that… I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." –Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (speaking to Shimon Peres, as reported on Israel Radio [in Hebrew, Kol Yisrael], 3 October 2001)
Well sign me up. Any enemy of israel has my backing and full support.
Best to clean up one's own backyard.
Sounds like Baptists and Mormons to me. Do they also butcher people to steal their organs? Or steal whole countries, murdering and ethnically cleansing the long-time inhabitants, stealing everything they owned, erasing and denying their culture, and then declaring their victims murderers and monsters for fighting back, fighting to recover what was stolen from them?
Pariah,
Either you're a liar and criminal accomplice who knows the truth but rejects it in favor of criminal spoils, or, if you really believe your criminal narrative, psychologically damaged. Heck! Why make it all complicated? You're an integrity-free tribal loyalist opposed to any justice that inconveniences your tribe.
sounds like a bad porno from anbout 3300 hundred years ago, staring "King David as Hitler the furor
And israel is better? They have already killed over 200 of your servicemen, they have murdered and maimed millions, invaded their neighbors, milking your country dry and occupy you congress and M$M. Not bad for a state smaller than New Jersey with 60 years of brutality. Helen Thomas was right; Israel is nothing but an occupying power.
Read Alison Weir's article posted today on Antiwar.com and get educated.
The nasty little nazis in Tel Aviv need a bloody good lesson being taught to them. Just let them try and attack Turkish PM or warships and they will find the whole might of NATO. Then the cowardly little rats would be scurrying to escape the sinking ship of Israel.
to be in semanated they 'd have to be inward "bound,etc,etrc read the whole book,then all my sadistic prophecies will beguile and confuse the goeing masses,just like in the book,see god said,stick to the script will ya
Erdogan has proven himself to be an idiot by putting himself personally on a flotilla ship. Now if he backs down, he will look weak. Israel will either back down, they have the better PR merchants, or there will be a coup in Turkey of some kind, though that isn't as easy as it has been in the past and could easily backfire. Turkey is fast retreating from its secular status. Read the blogs – it's all full of the religious garbage of Islam, one of the poles, the other being radical American fundamentalism, and ignorant global catholicism, that is proving there is no dragging a majority of humanity into modernity. There is no way the USA will alllow these tow allies to fight. Not only are CIA ops thinking about coup in turkey, but there are a lot of rich military elites who are going to have a shining rationale to stage a coup. The question is can they do it, and if they do, will that only set the stage for an even more virulent iran-style Islamic takeover afterwards. If Turkey goes that way, watch out world. I'm sure the USA is not pleased at all with Israeli management of relations with Turkey in the last year. It has been abysmal and short-sighted. By the way, Turkey has 67 million people to Israel's 7, although Israel is more advanced. However, if a millions of Turks come down through Lebanon and Syria, Israel will have to stack the bodies high to prevent invasion. Not gonna happen for now. There could also be a kabuki exchange between air forces just for public consumption to prove both sides are manly.
Damn near spot on. The US (and the rest of the world) are not gonna allow this to go all the way to war. Way way too dangerous for the rest of the world. The Gaza blockade will be dealt with, probably by peace keepers in Gaza, and international oversight of materials being brought in..
Israel is bipolar, on the one hand we have the secular Jewish folk who make up the majority of the country and than we have the varying shades of religious fanatics and jingoist nationalists. Israel's moderate and left wing media is attacked as traitors, collaborators or terrorists themselves. Israel's right wing media which is protected jealously by the state has over all cultivated a measure of paranoia in the rest of the population that is palpable in all of their conversations and actions.
What Israel needs is mental help for the lefties that are anxious and the rightwingers who are deluded and paranoid.
If politics fail they talk on war and Israel is behaving in a very bad manner. I don,t know the sense of such statements and Turkey is not banana likeGhaza or Bairut. Jews always chose soft targets but this time it will very tough and madness. We will have to wait and see how the US reacts, as i have already wrote in previous commentys Israel will destroy America. Pl. don,t forget Muslim minority in US is growing with different numbers.
God save Turkey and Muslims around the world. America is increasing it,s foes around the world. US should think twice for such madness. Even 130000 in Afghanistan are at stake and will be wiese for Iran to arm Afghans against US after these sanctions
The IDF has made the mistake of seeing itself as some type of heroic, unbeatable, military machine when its targets are helpless women and children. This hubris was dealt a blow when the IDF went up against the real warriors of Hezbaullah. Furthemore, with Turkey being a NATO nation an attack against one member must be considerd an attack against all, and there is no way that the Israeli controlled America will honor that obligation, which will mean the end of NATO.
I think a form of insanity has gripped some of the readers of antiwar.com. I cannot believe the number of people, people who should know better, seem to be fervently hoping for a war between Israel and Turkey. War should only be a last resort, and all peaceful alternatives should be exhausted first. In this case all peaceful alternatives have not been exhausted. The strategy of sending unarmed aide flotillas to Gaza seems to be working. The government of Israel is showing its ugly face to the entire world. Israel is becoming more and more isolated and friendless. Even here in the United States more people are beginning to question the Israel first foriegn policy of the United States government. Why give up on a peaceful strategy that is working, and trade it for a war policy that would be equally horrible for the people of Turkey and Israel?
Ira, you are so right. Many times people forget this is Anti-war dot com. The recurring warmongers should be removed from this thread. There are 1 million plus websites for them to go on and spread their bloodthirsty lies. Let them do it and leave us few peaceniks alone for once.
like who captain courageous name the names in yer enlightned action,this may concern more than just you and yer imaginary temporary fair wheather friend/sz-?,,,
Of course war is never the answer, but in order to avoid committing suicide the other side must also belive that. It appears that both Israel and the United States have lost their moral compass, along with their sanity, seeing war as the first and only response to disagreement. Ghandi's tactics would never have prevailed in Nazi Germany; he would have been shot. They worked, because the British, with all their brutality still had an ember of decency left. The United States and Israel are in the process of expanding the war to Pakistan and Iran with Obama becoming more dangerous than Bush/Cheney. Unfortunatly the only way they will be stopped is by suffering military defeat and/or financial collapse.
I don't think it was because of any "decency" on the part of the British but rather that they knew quite well that had they killed Ghandi there would have been such an uprising that they all would have been massacred.
It does look as though in this blind flight forwad "military defeat and/or financial collapse" will be the outcome.
" because the British, with all their brutality still had an ember of decency left."
Not really.
They also tried starvation, as they did in Ireland. But it didn't work.
I agree with you Ira, but you know folks are at their wits end with Israel. They're not pious, deferential, proportionate, reasonable, moderate or cooperative in any way. It's all Iron Dome, and Iron Shield and Iron Wall. It's all "Fuck you! We will do what we want. No one can tell us anything. We have nukes!"
That's a scary attitude which makes for a scary situation, which, along with outrage, makes war and the attendant regime change seem like a way out.
Think about it. A world without Israel. Has to be better than what we have now.
Whether this is achieved by war and the destruction that inevitably results (including a substantial Jewish death toll), or by a peaceful yet forceful international intervention, the dissolution of the Zionist state, "aliyah" for the exiled Palestinians, and restoration of Palestine as a multi-ethnic democracy, is yet to be seen. Given human behavior in general and Zionist intransigence in particular, the path to a new paradigm will likely be accompanied by a tsunami of blood.
Sad, but as long as it isn't my blood,…well, I can live with that.
Breaking a blockade is an act of war; enforcing a blockade in international waters is permissible.
If I remember right, the blockade of gaza has been declared illegal by the U.N.
"The world's narrowest strait used for international navigation, it connects the Black Sea with the Sea of Marmara (which is connected by the Dardanelles to the Aegean Sea, and thereby to the Mediterranean Sea). It is approximately 30 km (19 mi) long, with a maximum width of 3,700 m (12,139 ft) at the northern entrance, and a minimum width of 700 m (2,297 ft) between Kandilli and Aşiyan; and 750 m (2,461 ft) between Anadoluhisarı and Rumelihisarı. The depth varies from 36 to 124 m (118 to 407 ft) in midstream."
Where's the rush?
"The Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits was a 1936 agreement that gives Turkey control over the Bosporus Straits and the Dardanelles and regulates military activity in the region. Signed on 20 July 1936, it permitted Turkey to remilitarise the Straits and imposed new restrictions on the passage of combatant vessels. It is still in force today, with some amendments.
The Convention gives Turkey full control over the Straits and guarantees the free passage of civilian vessels in peacetime. It severely restricts the passage of non-Turkish military vessels and prohibits some types of warships, such as aircraft carriers, from passing through the Straits. The terms of the convention have been the source of controversy over the years, most notably concerning the Soviet Union's military access to the Mediterranean Sea."
wikipedia s.v.
Well, the Soviet Union's military access has certainly been resolved, hasn't it?
I mean , given the state of the world today, with all this terrorism and piracy on the high seas going on, Turkey really should tighten up security in the straits.
So many suspicious characters drifiting through. Why not install full body scanners, for example–not just for passengers and crews but for ships.
No doubt there will be long delays–but hey it's a small price to pay for preventing terrorism and piracy, isn't?
Right ON Ira..!! It's CRAZY the way this has spun out of control… Nuts to see antiwar posters pluggin a WAR period… Where is Pres. "O"..?? Israel needs to take care to not offend every Muslim, every Person on this planet.. Why give up on a peaceful strategy that is working, and trade it for a war policy that would be [a total crapshoot with unknown (nuclear?) results equally horrible for the people of Turkey and Israel? War doesn't solve problems very well, it's way better at creating them…and making them worse..
Here's one prototype for a new Turkish ship body scanner:
http://www.web-books.com/Classics/Books/B0/B701/O…
Istanbul has more than 12 million citizens, making it the sixth largest city in the world.
Makes NYC look like the over the hill, dysfunctional metropolis it really is.
Of course Ciudad Mexico does that too.
Hey, what was that story about the US Border patrol killing a 14 year old Mexican kid?
another head shot, border patrol must take shooting lessons from the israeli's
List of the twelve largest cities proper in the world:
Shanghai13,831,900
Mumbai13,830,884
Karachi12,991,000
Delhi 12,565,901
Istanbul11,372,613
São Paulo11,037,593
Moscow10,508,971
Seoul 10,464,051
Beijing 10,123,000
Mexico City 8,841,916
12.5 million is the most recent figure for Istanbul.
Say, how many of the world's nuclear weapons are targeted on Israel, do you suppose.
Just a hypothetical-say, Israel nuked Istanbul (I mean they are threatening war with Turkey, aren't they, after already having committed murder and piracy on the high seas)–well, anyway, say Israel nuked Istanbul, any bets on how long it would take to carve out a new Gulf of Jerusalem in the Mediterranean?
Ten minutes? Twenty? A half hour?
Israel really should join the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, no?
But, hey, if the Israelis want to do the Netanyahu Seppuku, what's a body to do?
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
`My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away".
Turkey needs to get out of NATO and demolish all its relation with Israel…, that alone will say a lot to NATO and Israel. Perhaps then Obama, Gates and Hillary Clinton would wake up and smell the Turkish coffee.
NATO committed suicide in Yugoslavia.
It is wandering around Afghanistan looking for proper burial.
In the meantime, Turkey get out of NATO? When they are being threatened with war by Israel?
Surely you josh.
On the other hand, inviting the Russians into NATO and expelling the US at the same time makes intriguing sense, if only as a meershaum pipe dream at the moment.
They could rename themselves EUTO (European Treaty Organization, for after all Russia and Turkey are as European as Mexico is North American)
One has been combing maps but one has still not found the North Atlantic coast of Kabul.
Turkey is not a European country.
Yes it is. Istanbul is on the European continent, right next to Greece.n Which is why it is eligible to join the EU, if the bigots will let a Muslim nation join.
Oh what joy! The idea of slapping the US' face and clipping its arrogant wings would be more joy than anyone could bear. I think Israel should get its buddy Mugabe in Zimbabwe and as the two leading pariahs in the world, should make a joint statement at the UN.
Good things ore leaders are men and women of peace,tolerance,compassion as they try to solve the problems of the world with dialouge, compromise and sharp intelligence….Because in our past we seemed to knee-jerk react to slights,prods and naitonal slaps with pure emotion and violence. But in this age of reason and muturity we just don't act and react that way anymore.
up!
"Turkey’s economy bounces back
By Delphine Strauss in Ankara
Published: March 31 2010
Turkey’s economy bounced back from recession in the last quarter of 2009, with year on year growth of 6 per cent beating analysts’ expectations and increasing pressures on the central bank to raise interest rates earlier than it has previously signalled.
The quarterly figure suggests Turkey is enjoying one of the region’s strongest recoveries from the global crisis, after suffering one of its sharpest recessions. The data released on Wednesday brought the contraction over the year as a whole to 4.7 per cent, better than a government prediction of a 6 per cent contraction.
The recovery was driven by higher private consumption and a surge in government spending. “Turkey can hope for more domestic demand stimulus than others,” said Christian Keller, economist at Barclays Capital, adding that this could also mean inflationary pressures returned earlier than elsewhere in the region.
Ali Babacan, economy minister, said he now expected economic growth in 2010 to outstrip the 3.5 per cent envisaged in the government’s medium-term fiscal plans.
Some economists also said they would revise their predictions upwards, although others pointed to persistently high unemployment, low capacity usage and the recent stabilisation in public sector spending. BCG Partners forecasts growth of 4.1 per cent over the year, while Goldman Sachs, expecting 7 per cent, is among the most bullish…."
FT.com
By excluding Turkey from the EU, the EU has, ironically, also excused the Turks from contributing to the efforts to "bail out"(read "screw") Greece.
The malignant midget threatens, thinking that his big, stupid friend will protect him. The big, stupid friend is starting to figure things out.
Confucius say: Face man with yatagan, not lead with loud mouth and family jewels.
Old Chinese proverb:Meet man with yatagan, not lead with loud mouth and family jewels.
So what is being censored–Confucius, Chinese, yatagan, family jewels?
I dunno man but like Obama I'm trying to figure out whose ass to kick. The moderation bin is supposed to suck up suspected spam but I've got like 1,600 comments in there and there's damned little spam. I'm trying to figure out how to make it act a little more sane though, so sorry to everyone whose comments got sucked up, I literally just found out Instant Debate isn't sending "post needs moderation" emails to me anymore, I assumed there just hadn't been any.
If the hostility to the Zionist state voiced on comments to this piece is any indication of American feelings toward that state, then a lot of people there should start packing their bags.
And dont worry about a Zionist-Turkey war.
The Zionists only attack little old mullahs in wheelchairs – or idiot gunrunners in posh hotels without any sign of security.
withour Turkey,Israel is doomed,and her days are numbered
we know the israelites are fierce warriors but the turks are not exactly peaceniks..big talk from the israel miltary but hopefully only talk..most people don't realize that turkey is a very powerful opponent in a very strategic location
Israel said if the Turkish leader is aboard the humanitarian ships “we will consider it an act of war”. Kim Jong Ill of North Korea says “if anyone says we sunk the South Korean war ship it will be an act of war”. Sounds like Kim Jong Ill and the Yahoo are butt buddies.
Joe, the North Koreans didnt sink that ship, Kim Jong isnt my favourite person but truth is truth.
http://gowans.wordpress.com/2010/05/20/the-sinkin…
Israel is like the schoolyard runt that tries to pick fights with older kids, knowing that his big brother will back him up. But one day the big brother needs to let the runt take a shit-kicking before he meets someone who can take both he and the runt on. There's nothing like a good kicking to shut up a runt.
Nobody needs to "demonize" Israel; they do a pretty great job of it, themselves!
Under the UN Laws of the Seas, Israel has already commited an 'Act of War' against Turkey by attacking a turkish-flagged ship in international waters. It was not an 'Act of Piracy', because the attack was initiated by a 'Nation State' as opposed to a group of individuals (ie pirates).
The Isaeli Army radio reports, IMO are nothing more than 'spin' to keep up the anti-Turkish rhetoric.
Two things. Firstly, as some ex-mil Turkish friends of mine have said – the Turkish military would flatten any nation in the Middle East in a week, if they were attacked.
Secondly, Israel must remember that Turkey is a part of NATO – Article 5 states an attack on one NATO country is attack on all NATO members.
Finally this won't happen – the USA wouldn't allow it. They can hardly be called upon to comply with Article 5, when they themselves have promised to protect Israel.
Israel has 300+ nukes pointed at countries both friend and foe and they promised to use them and
take the rest of the world with them if they are defeated in a war.
MY GOD!
The only language that Israel would ever understand is a economical boycott by US.., EU.., China.., Russia and rest of the world…, other solution is for Turkey to get out of NATO and demolish all its ties with Israel…, that would be a slap in the EUs and US face for not implementing and disrespecting the principals in democracy and letting murders like BUSH and CHENEY and the Israel apartheid regime to continue with killing innocent people.
I think Israel should quit acting like the world is out to get them. they should stop oppressing people and stop acting like the victim.
If our President had some balls he'd have the United States Navy escort a few Humanitarian Aide ships into Gaza.
I think Turkey should use its military power and flatten the Zionist state. The other NATO members should be on alert, ready to assist Turkey with logistical support. Enough is enough. To hell with bloody Israeli fascist.
Isreal must be acting with covert US support.
They would not dare be so presumpuous without quiet assurances the marines would be there to back them up if need be…..
At least the massive airsuperiority of the US airforce and navy.
What ifind really scarey is they have three nuclear armed subs out there in the oceans ….somewhere handy no doubt……(at least one off the coast of Iran 24/7 for the last few weeks)…..
It almost seems as if there is an air of inevitability about the looming war scenarios playing out in the M/east.
The rhetoric the demonstrations, the acusations, the boardings and detainments,further escalations by other parties widening the conflict…….raising the clamour on the worlds stage for justice for both sides as the propaganda mills grind on in high gear while they have an audience.
More outrageous acts of violent and bizare nature add more fuel to the whole thing…
suddenly there is a confrontation which starts the chain of events when everything has cimaxed in a fever pitch.
If so the war will be the end of both the US and Israel. Bank on it.
Hubris is followed by Ate is followed by Nemesis.
"Israel is not a nation but rather a criminal enterprise"
Tick Tock…… the time is nigh
Die israel. – Die
Zyklon-B is the insecticide of choice.
Isn't the Turkish military command center in Jewish pocket?
Erdogan here Erdogan there, where were the Turkish warships when crime center Israel bandits
(Hebrews=bandits)
assassinated Turkish citizens on the Flotilla without retaliation whatsoever?
A NATO alliance member has been attacked on international waters and threatened with war. Where is the response? It’s a separate matter that like the bully she is, Israel would never dare go to war without full American support – and, that too, against a totally emaciated foe. The fact remains that Israel stands exposed today for what she is – a cancerous growth in the Middle East and a Frankenstein monster for US.
It is time Israel was told where the line in the sand ends.
Israel has a right to defend itself . Lets see the peace activists approach a country like Russia
and be annihilated.