US, Russian, and Iranian military forces have all been involved in the Syrian War for some time now, and all with differing agendas. As they all increase their involvement, those fights have become less separated, and particularly in the case of the US and Russia, the threat of direct clashes is growing.
After several incidents in which US warplanes attacked Syrian pro-government targets, the US yesterday had its biggest attack, shooting down a Syrian Su-22 bomber inside Syrian airspace. The US insisted the attack was “collective self defense” meant to protect the Syrian Kurds.
Russia has responded to the US attack by announcing they’re going to start treating US warplanes operating in much of Syria as potential targets for their advanced air defense systems. This comes as Iran increases its own involvement in Syria, firing missiles at ISIS targets.
Earlier US attacks targeted Shi’ite militias, and the US was very eager to emphasize that these were “pro-Iran” militias, comments which have added to speculation that the US is already looking to a post-ISIS war primarily against Iran in particular, and Shi’a Islam in general.
That war with Iran, something many US hawks have coveted for decades, is predicated at least in part on these clashes in Syria not getting the US into a direct shooting war with Russia, as America’s goal of imposing regime change in Syria has grown to the point that, apart from US support from rebels, they’re also carrying out direct attacks on Syrian military forces. All this is ruining the pretense that US forces in Syria are only there to fight ISIS, and has put them in direct conflict with Russian interests.
Another Trump lapse or broken promise, deception….. Or whatever… It looks like HE will have to learn every lesson of war personally as it seems he has never studied which actions beget what reactions and results on the ground…
Trump needs to read William S Lind’s work on 4th generation conflicts…
Don’t overlook Israel …. they’re in the mix too.
Actually it is mainly Israel which is the driving power behind the confrontation between Syria under Assad and the US.
Period.
Israel is an important factor in US actions on Israel’s border. That should not be a surprise.
However, there is much more going on here than just Israel. It is dreams of world dominance, and the huge money of controlling world oil supplies, and vast arms sales of hundred of billions — and that is just to the Saudis.
I wish it were as simple as only Israel. However, yes, Israel is a destructive influence in all of this. It is one of the big factors that Wolfowitz referenced as being drawn together for a common neocon policy for all their differing reasons.
Call Israel and tell then, any attack on Russia will bring a overwhelming strike on their MICRO-STATE… Four or five medium yeild will cause another Exodus: But to where….?????????
Time for cooler heads to emerge….. Its not worth it for small states. They just lack the geography which is just as important as throw weight, and probably waaaaay more so…
See this Interview with RayMcGovern, retired CIA-Analyst with 7 US-presidents in the White House:
https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/361636-russia-west-syria-tensions/
THere he clearly says that all that quagmire is about Israel and its strategic interest in containing Hisbollah and Iran
Israel is the cause, silly!
It is primarily not the US that is interested in war with Iran and in regime change in Syria, but the zionist warmongers in W.DC.
Why does antiwar.com not say this openly?
We’re Antiwar.com, not IsraelDerangementSyndrome.com.
Bad link to IsraelDerandementSyndrome.com.
It’s a link to a site that doesn’t exist — which is precisely the point. We are Antiwar.com, not IsraelDerangementSyndrome.com.
Why are you posting bad links…..?????
Bad link for IsraelDerangementSyndrome…..
This is not attacking Russian interests. It is now openly defending ISIS. Since Kurds do nir have the forces that can successfully attack and hold vast areas of ISIS held territory, only deals with ISIS have resulted in gaining territory. Syrian Army has as a result had more sucesses against ISIS then so called SDF, Syrian Democratic Forces. They are neithe Syrian, nor Democratic nor Forces. They are Kurdish, not Syrian.
They are mercenary, not Democratic — no Kurdish institutions approved the Army. And they are not “forces”, as other then Kurds, there is no representation by others recognized. Also, they are hardly forces, as only Kobani Kurds are participaring.
So now, Syrian Army is advancing in Raqa, made a lush to Iraqi border where it hooked up with Iraqi forces. Being prevented to connect at Al-Tanf, they now have cut off a group of mercenaries “US allies”. from ISIS — and thus made them show real mission. US will protect ISIS for as long as necessary to insure that the territory is mot liberated by the Government — but either turned over to Kurds or kept in US hands citing some unnamed partners. Establishing bases in Kurdish areas is nation building. Any nation, gor as long as Syria is not allowed to keep its territorial integrity.
Bianca, What is the “This in the first sentence of your comment??? Is it the shoot down, or the tense situation, or something else
U mean like the little green men aka mercenaries that showed up in Ukraine a sovereign nation on behalf of Russia’s interest to nation build in Ukraine’s territory violating it’s integrity.You see how that works Bianca??? Why weren’t you defending Ukraine’s sovereignty??? I’ll tell you why because you’re a Russian troll trying to influence the people on this site and persuade the that what the USA is doing is wrong even though Russia is doing the same thing… Practice what you preach!!!!USA
Are you by chance referring to the former Ukrainians who seceded from Ukraine and formed their own states (the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics)? Once you’ve seceded from Ukraine, people who show up where you are aren’t showing up “in Ukraine.”
Look I know you hate America and I know this site is anything but anti-war but it’s more like anti-America ask yourself how did the so called people who secceeded from Ukraine have advanced weapons systems capable of shooting jets out of the sky.Ordinary people huh?More like Russian mercenaries that had to be trained to use those weapons.If you’re going to troll my comments on this site at least put some context in it.USA
The shoot down is at BEST a distraction…. When the topic is a COUP of a state contiguous with the second largest thermonuclear arsenal on the planet, a coup which installs the vestage of a defeated entity responsible for the death of five millions of Russian Citcitizens…. Which makes you a troll….
Didn’t Ukraine give up its nuclear arsenal in a pact it made with Russia when The Soviet Union dissolved and Russia agreed to never attack or invade it’s territories.You’re the one that needs a history lesson.The lesson is never trust anything the Russians tell you or agree to do they’re not going to keep there word just ask the Ukrainians.To bad Ukraine didn’t keep its nuclear arsenal it sure would’ve kept Russia from invading.And you shouldn’t say anything to me on the internet you wouldn’t say to my face.It makes you a coward and also a weak troll.
“.The lesson is never trust anything the Russians tell you”
I agree.
Substitute any other country for “the Russians” and I’ll agree as well.
And I haven’t said anything to you on the Internet that I wouldn’t say to your face. We’re about a thousand miles apart, but I’ll be in New Orleans next summer if you want to test that.
your previous comments cast doupt on your agreeing not to trust russia there slick.
Not even a little.
yeah no you do. Keep on ratcheting up the propaganda bar and i will continue to call you out on it.
Hey, if you want to continue making yourself look like an idiot in public it’s no skin off my nose.
boy you gringo red necks just love assuming your right about everything don’t ya. That racist white privileged mentality just creeps up don’t it<_<
You must have mistaken me for someone else. I’m not white.
sure you aren’t. Prove it….cough gringo cough!
“Gringo” has nothing to do with being “white” or not. A “gringo” is just someone who’s not Hispanic/Latino. So I qualify as a gringo.
I’m the norteamericano version of a mestizo — my ancestry is part European and part American Indian.
The idea of a “white race” dates from the 17th century as a way of explaining who could be owned as chattel and who couldn’t and makes no sense outside that context. There hasn’t been a “white” person in North America since 1865.
Gringo is a term used here in south America mainly for whites from the west and specifically from the US. Ask any black or brown person in your country if they have ever been called a gringo slick And i saw your profile and you look whiter then filing paper so please don’t give me that your part mezzo american bs response i always hear from white american leftist types.
You’re an idiot. Have a nice day.
sure gringo if that’s what you have to say in order to think you’ve won an argument<_<
In order for me to win an argument, there would have to be another party arguing. “I think you are white, therefore you are wrong” is not an argument.
That comment was meant for the person who called me a troll but,you can come down here to Texas if you’d like Me.Knapp and bring you’re anti-America viewpoints with you.We’re really patriotic about our hero’s fighting for our freedom round here.How bout we meet in San Antonio Lackland Airbase.USA
I’m glad you support the heroes fighting for your freedom — have you donated to Antiwar.com lately, or is that just talk?
Since escaping from Mesquite as a toddler, I’ve only gone to Texas when absolutely necessary. But it may be absolutely necessary in 2020 (probably Dallas).
I don’t remember writing anything here that I would be afraid of saying to you face to face…. Who are you, what’s your citizenship, why are you so anti-Russian…. What’s the last time Russia invadad another country half way round the world and killed a half million or more of their citizens based on reasons that were lies & forgeries like we (USA) did in Iraq & Vietnam….?????
Oh so just because it attacks local countries means it is somehow not as bad as the US? Seriously take your meds gringo russian troll.
“how did the so called people who secceeded from Ukraine have advanced weapons systems capable of shooting jets out of the sky”
They took them with them when they seceded from Ukraine, which was indeed armed with those systems, just like the Russians.
And, yes, they may have received both personnel and weapons from Russia. But that doesn’t change the fact that a Russian soldier entering a seceded state which used to be part of Ukraine is not the same thing as a Russian soldier entering Ukraine.
If that where true they wouldn’t be fighting Russia with outdated military gear and would be doing the same thing shooting Russian jets out of the sky.Why do you think they keep asking for military hardware from America cmon Mr.Knapp I know you’re agenda on this site is a biased one but pretending to be naive…SMH
What about the $5,000,000,000.00 dollars for “democracy building”that Victoria Nuland bragged about….. that paid for the deadly chaos and death….compliments of the followers of those third Reich festooned in swastikas as they attacked and butchered those who supported the elected president against their Natszi putsch..
Or the “Fook Europe” phone call she made in which Nuland chooses “Yatz” as the Putsch President….
Certainly anyone feigning concern for the Sovereignty of Ukraine would, (green men) aside finger the call that named the President with her five billion war chest…
Who are you EAGLA… Where are you from….????? Are you human, or just a clever bit of programing…????????
Some of it, the Golan, has already been seized by the Israeli’s and they aren’t planning on giving it back, ever.
Zio-Washington is the aggressor.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2930aa759ab7050bfdbbbcb508b6088f75cd42d7692be6c763e484942dcebd55.jpg
LOL!! Assad is not fighting the Syrian Kurds. The end is near.
More stupidity from the American military in the Mid-East. They do seem to be trying to force a serious confrontation, I wish the USA had a stronger President. Obama would shut this BS down in a heart beat.
I agree that we need a stronger – and smarter – president. As for Obama, he could have “shut this BS down in a heart beat” at any time during his 8 years – he didn’t. I see no reason to believe he’d do it now. Obama, like Trump, and Bush, and Clinton, and Reagan, and all the presidents going back to at least the end of WWII were co-opted by the deep state.
But that’s just this old Curmudgeon’s opinion…
Add mine too… Sad to see their minions creeping in here too….? Witting or unwitting… More and more every day, the relocation of JR to faraway country appears to resemble EXILE… Again, no matter whether intentional or unintentional….. Nature and leadership abhors a vacuum… What’s that sucking sound….?????
Barry? he set this thing in motion..
Hillary talked him into it, her and Samantha Powers. The Neocons of the Democratic Party. The war with Russia will their gift to Trump.
Putin has a track record for responses. He consistently reacts either far less than anticipated, or far more than anticipated. He almost never does what was anticipated. Over reactions include the Georgia War, taking Crimea, and intervention in Syria. He goes big sometimes.
We don’t know what he’ll do this time. Just turning on the radars would be an under reaction. It may also be a first step, or a warning that the next reaction will be a big one.
If the US keeps pushing, it will at some point get one of the big over reactions out of him. It is acting as if it wants that.
The US is playing with fire here, in a powder magazine, gleefully as if it wants an explosion.
That’s what they do when they believe wholeheartedly that they can win. The US also has a track record…for making seriously stupid and usually fatal gambits.
I suspect the evilest of empires, and perhaps the effing Russians too, do not mind this as long as the field of this conflict, is away from their homelands. Islamic civilians are cheap cannon fodder for the two anyway.
They will ensure that this does not escalate to a nuclear conflict, where both will crush each others balls. A secure hotline is all that is required.
Too simple an answer.. We need shared visions with Russia..? Not on ALL topics, but on as many as possible. This is an life and death issue! Not only for our two countries, but for ALL LIFE, except roaches and microbes… on this ….ENTIRE PLANET….!!!!!!!!
Assets are in place for retaliatory strikes from any adversary in Syria considering attacking coalition forces flying in the region.Arms have been shipped to allies in the region’s with missiles capable of turning Assad’s palace in Damascus to dust.Russias anti-aircraft missile systems will be overwhelmed by the amount of missiles lodged at there locations.Its warships are surrounded by Sunni allied countries and it’s submarines are outnumbered in the region.Israel will use this conflict to destroy Iran’s nuclear program with bunker busting bombs.Russias only optiwill be to go nuclear but,it won’t knowing NATO will annihilate Russia starting with St.Petersburg.Putin must understand his country is powerful it’s military is strong but,its not capable of winning a war with America and it’s allies.There ruble isn’t worth enough to sustain a military campaign that will allow them to win.His people are tired of him in power. Imagine it’s like pizza so yummy and i love it but,imagine if u had to eat it every single day with nothing else on the menu eventually you’d get tired of it and at some point you might start to hate it.Thats how ordinary people in Russia feel about this man already thank God we live in America where u got 8 years and you’re out.USA
So far, that’s how it works anyway.
In your scenario, every European NATOcapitol will be obliterated because of command and control considerations, not to mention the removal of strategic deapth. Not the sort of things that the voters would support…. Tell me WHY any European state would want to join in this scheme to have their Capitol Nuked at least oncce. Russia already has its cruise missiles in ready to take out Poland radar….
Yaa…. eagle. Russia has been through a lot, and their ready… So IS the USA we are told…. But we got to see Amercas defenses on nine eleven.
It wasn’ t very impressive….NORAD was a no show, but it’s commander was not demoted or fired, HE WAS PROMOTED… And the best military in the world, had over an hour to react, but intercepted ZERO of the planes.. This record lives in infamy…
I’m not assurred by your confidence in our TOTALLY UNTRIED theater defense interceptors…. Hundreds of millions will die in your scenario, but you present this incomplete and untried sytems as our salvation..
Russia doesn’t have the capability to take on the world they only bully the smaller countries in it’s sphere of influence.I remember Putin pulling it’s spy base out it had in Cuba since the cold war because the Russians saw first hand the capability the American military had when we bombed Saddam’s army into submission and took out it’s air force with no boots on the ground before we invaded.Spin it however you want Russia versus NATO equals ultimate surrender for Russia and Putin’s demise a gift to the people of Russia who are sick of this man trying to relive the cold war…The USSR dissolved the wall came down America and Europe helped Russia when it was a broken system corrupt to the core.What did we get out of it an ex-KGB operative pretending to care about the people he represents while they struggle to survive on a weak ruble and he sets them on a collision course with the world.Spy master more like spin master.USA
The U.S. establishment is conceding defeat finally after years of unnecessary civilian deaths and terrorism, a refugee crisis unlike any in modern times, one that is causing permanent harm across Europe, and potentially will soon launch retaliatory strikes deep in the US heartland. Assad STAYS. Everything West of the Euphrates will be defended ruthlessly. Syria and Russia are unlikely to protest very much against the establishment of Kurdistan. Kurdistan will serve as a buffer between Syria and Turkey. Russian and Iranian military presence inside Syria will escalate, so that no US or Israeli force will ever attempt to attack Syria again. The US just lost a war, folks. Make no mistake.
Wishful thinking at best….. Wildly optimistic even worse… It seems to me that prelude to WWIII might be a better fit… Please explains how shooting down a Syrin plane, over its OWN airspace by an invading plane from an hostile State can be characterized as conceding defeat… WTF.. Or did I miss the “Assad Stays” announcement… Even if true, does he Stay with his BALLS, or must they be turned over to the Empire to seal the deal….
Until we FINALLY get to see these Russian “Advanced interceptor systems. “Do the DEED” and Actually take out the next plane attacking Syria stuff, it’s all talk & BS…. Let’s see the Meat…..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If “collective self-defense” is a valid excuse for shooting down another country’s plane if they are attacking an unofficial militia that one side likes, then …..
“collective self-defense” would be a very valid reason for shooting down another country’s planes who are attacking the official government forces of an offical ally. Russia and Syria are allies.
The US just said that Russia is now justified in shooting down US planes that are attacking Syria.
Who knew that hiding just beneath that ginger come-over was another little Hillary all along. Well, I knew because I’ve been paying attention but that’s beside the point…And that point? Empire is empire is empire. Democrat, Republican, boy, girl, boy, boy, girl, girl….
When you have (1) a military structure that is biased heavily towards international war, (2) has fared so pathetically at picking sides in intra-national conflicts and (3) a commander-in-chief who “leaves it to the generals” its not hard to see where this could lead.
If you’re still puzzled, study Europe in 1913/14 for clues.