The US Navy launched live–fire missiles in the Philippine Sea last week, in what is seen as a direct message to China. The guided-missile destroyer USS Barry launched a medium-range Standard Missile-2, according to the US Seventh Fleet’s Facebook page. The exercise took place in waters east of the Philippines.
According to the South China Morning Post, the destroyer was accompanied by the guided-missile cruiser USS Shiloh which also fired an SM-2 missile. The Post spoke with military analysts who believe the exercise was meant to be a warning to China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA).
Zhou Chenming, a Beijing-based military analyst, said, “The US Navy is worried about Chinese missiles, which China could use as a trump card in a military conflict between the two parties in the region. The Seventh Fleet wants to warn Beijing that it can intercept missiles from China.” The US is worried about a type of missile that the PLA developed in recent years that has a range of 2,500 miles, which puts the US naval base in Guam within its range.
Despite the coronavirus pandemic, the US continues to run naval exercises in the South China Sea. The US Seventh Fleet conducted Expeditionary Strike Force (ESF) operations in the South China Sea from March 15th-18th. The ESF was carried out by the Theodore Roosevelt Carrier Strike Group, a large fleet of aircraft carriers, destroyers, and amphibious ships.
Since 2015, the US has been running what they call Freedom of Navigation Operations (FONOPs) near contested archipelagos in the South China Sea. The latest FONOP took place on March 10th, when the destroyer USS McCampell sailed near the Parcel Islands, a group of islands and reefs that China, Taiwan, and Vietnam all have overlapping claims on.
China called the latest FONOP a “hegemonic act that violates international law, and … threatens the peace and stability of the South China Sea.”
Missiles will bring more missiles. Firing missiles to warn China of US capability is actually a sign of weakness as it signals the US anxiety that it may not be able to cope with a Chinese missile attack. The actual US threat would be more powerful if it does not flag what capability it has. However with idiots like Pompeo in charge they have no idea of how the Eastern mind works.
If the US had a sustainable economy, it wouldn’t need missiles to threaten anyone. “Showing their hand” is a weak arguement against what has occurred. Everyone knows the US can rubble whole nations already, nothing new here.
A hawk is a hawk; they speak the same language across cultures.
Sabre rattling is a universal language.
Sabre rattling has different connotations, one keeps their sabers at the ready in order to protect ones border and cultures while some weild theirs to destroy others.
Some protect ideals of coexistence, respect for others and expecting same in return; others do not want co-existance under any terms other than their domination over others.
US military is by their own “Creed” Warriors, that of China are protectors of their lands and peoples, citizen soldiery.
Warriors glorify wars, it supersedes patriotism, even family, US had since founding held warriors in highest esteem, ‘m so high that today citizens thrust themselves upon them thanking them for their service, it is the warriors uniform worship.
We in US accept rattling our sabers as being our norm.
Militarism permeates almost every facet of daily life, even our religions, while today We See those inward connected Easter Civilizations concentrating on trade and through trade raising all of its nations standards of living.
Some do not wear the sword in public, it is kept sheathed until one is attacked.
There is a vast seperation in values of warrior between Eastern and Western.
Well, okay, but rattling a sabre usually isn’t meant to be that deep, and is usually a hawk-to-hawk thing.
Essentially, it just says, “We can and will fight for what we want!”
How defensible what is being demanded is, such as U.S. hegemonic privilege or Chinese sovereignty, is not particularly relevant.
Sabre ratting is not capable of being deep philosophy anchored in universal and objective truths beyond might makes right, right or wrong.
You are so correct. China has never really been an expansionist power. There was a time when China ruled the seas, but never attacked anyone. Its great ships traded with other people. Our history, it seems to me, is one of violence and expansion from the git-go…by hook or by crook, but mostly by crook 🙂
No matter economy, citizen well-being, dialogue, the perverted US militancy cant resist pulling missiles out of its pants to show the world it has no clue what is between its legs.
Rhetorical question, obviously, how many test kits do 5 pos missiles buy ? The US is an embarrassment to humanity.
WTF…. The U.S. is fireing missiles while New York burns with Corno fever. Good job morons.. It only shows the fecklessnes of the greatest debtor nation. Now set to add $2 trillion of new fiat paper pollution to its sea of never ending debt. No.1 debtor nation on the orb.. What a distinction…. What a joke….. Endless war = Endless debt & Endless interest peonage. No money for masks, gloves, resperators, ventilators too.. These destroyers of nations at our highest levels of state & military are destroying OUR nation. When will we learn to utilize our resources for positive utility, and cease the destruction of our lives?
Actually, COVID-19 is a hybrid hoax.
NYC is reeling in economic shutdown and government enforced economic dislocation.
People are scared, and most if honest, would admit being scared of being thrust into helpless poverty by COVID-19, not COVID-19 itself.
You can’t just assert things like “a hybrid hoax” without proof. I don’t get what you mean about “hoax” anyway, clearly both the virus and disease are real. Stop relying so much on Globalresearch.ca, it’s not a reliable source. That being said, I did read an article by Scott Ritter, who is a lot more reliable, about (a) how the supposed source of the virus as the wet markets has not been proven (no case of animal to human transmission found) and (b) that a group of American soldiers were in Wuhan in October, and that the earliest transmission date could well be pushed back that far. So what you said a while back, that the US may well be the source, is possible. Still doesn’t make it a fact. Still doesn’t mean it was deliberate if it happened. Still doesn’t make it a “hybrid” or bioweapon or whatever. Possible though. Worthy of investigation.
The hoax part is, you’re giving up your rights including the right to work for an unprecedented reason. Colds and flus kill; we experience thousands of casualties every flu season.
Thousands had already died, but suddenly, only COVID-19 deaths matter? That’s quite the non-sequitur; out of sequence reasoning.
It does not follow colds and flu have been killing thousands all along, but suddenly only COVID-19 casualties matter.
That we have no apparent treatment for COVID-19 is false. Every year, people who need flu shots need a new one, because cold and flu viruses mutate, effectively becoming a ‘new’ virus’. Those cold/flu victims vaccines miss, are treatable. At least COVID-19 appears to largely spare children.
There is no practical way to stop the spread of URIs and still have a ‘normal’ economy. We’d need robot Surrogates (2009, Bruce Willis) for that.
The hybrid part is describing the combination of a real threat – a cold virus – with a hoax element. COVID-19 isn’t nearly as lethal as panic media, alt or MSM, say.
“Dr. Birx: Coronavirus Data Doesn’t Match The Doomsday Media Predictions” – Ian Schwartz, RealClearPolitics, March 26, 2020
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/03/26/dr_birx_coronavirus_data_doesnt_match_the_doomsday_media_predictions_or_analysis.html
A conventional hoax is nearly or entirely fictional with no direct elements of truth, hence the term ‘hybrid’.
Keep giving in to fear and panic, and the incentive to up the ante next time will be irresistible to those in position to abuse power and trust.
Pay attention to the MSM, and bits of the fabrication show.
“U.S. has most coronavirus cases in world, next wave aimed at Louisiana” – Maria Caspani, Daniel Trotta, Reuters, March 26, 2020.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa/u-s-has-most-coronavirus-cases-in-world-next-wave-aimed-at-louisiana-idUSKBN21D1ZR
“At Elmhurst Hospital in New York’s borough of Queens, about a hundred people, many wearing masks with their hoods pulled up, lined up behind barriers outside the emergency room entrance, waiting to enter a tent to be screened for the coronavirus.”
W8 – we’re supposed to be practicing social distancing, not standing in lineups with crowds of potentially sick people waiting to be tested.
Add to that, those masks, even n-95s, offer absolutely no protection from airborne viral pathogens. The seal around the face alone lets in free air, and, n-95 stands for 95% filtration. That 5% let in, isn’t magically safe.
Most of those people probably already have a cold, to be worried enough to seek testing. But which one of the 200+ colds and flus including COVID-19 are they carrying and exposing others too, and how much fun it it to catch more than one pathogen?
Such testing sites are far more likely to spread many illnesses, not just the one being tested for.
No-congregating rules should logically have no exceptions including for testing, unless the intent is to spread illness.
“Detroit mayor sounds statewide alarm as coronavirus cases surge” – Michael Martina, Reuters, March 26, 2020.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-detroit/detroit-mayor-sounds-statewide-alarm-as-coronavirus-cases-surge-idUSKBN21D3TY
“Many clinics were turning away people who complained of fever, shortness of breath and other related symptoms, and under-resourced hospitals were advising individuals not facing emergency conditions to remain at home in quarantine. ”
Just as in Wuhan, the panicked are being encouraged to congregate, then are turned away. If they weren’t infected before, they sure are now, and will spread whatever they’ve picked up to others.
Apart from no lessons learned, except how to guarantee panic an spread, there are gaps in the reportage as well.
One of the most effective treatments for severe ARDS is ECMO (Extracorporeal Membrane Oxygenation).
Panic over ventilators kind of ignores that solution which worked very well in China. We probably could do with more ECMO machines than ventilators even if COVID-19 wasn’t around.
https://www.brighamandwomens.org/lung-center/respiratory-failure-and-end-stage-lung-disease-programs/mechanical-ventilation-and-extracorporeal-membrane-oxygenation-ecmo
https://www.ucsfhealth.org/treatments/extracorporeal-membrane-oxygenation
COVID-19 is a hybrid hoax, a deadly tragic farce that gets worse by the day as people fail to think and question the obvious internal contradictions in the official alt-MSM narrative.
That’s a lot you’ve had to say, and at least now I understand the way you’re using the word. Might I suggest that if you need to explain something to that degree, you need a better term. “Deliberate overeaction” or something would be clearer than “hybrid hoax”. The word hoax is something Trump overuses (and misuses) and is so closely associated with him now that people will wonder why you’d use it given he’s the one in the American government most vocally downplaying the threat and even minimizing it. I won’t attempt to address now, but here are some general thoughts. Now, bearing in mind that your basic premise is correct–that real disasters or calamaties may be used by governments (or elments of governments, I don’t really buy the monolithic and simplistic deep state idea) to push through things they had wanted to push through already, when people’s attention is elsewhere or in any case they are distracted. That’s why sunset clauses, very clearn ones, are needed on emergency legislation. Speaking from the Canadian perspective, our minority government was just checked on that point by the opposition (on spending power though, not on rights and freedoms). As far as the US goes, all of us long time readers of this site know that 9/11 has been used and abused for nearly 20 years as justification for illegal wars and infringement of freedoms domestically as well as internationally (Gtimo, etc.). Leaving all that to one side, and acknowledging the potential for loss of rights and freedoms in a crisis, about which you are right to be vigilant, some of your arguments and facts about this one are, at very least, not standing on as solid a ground as you may think, and some are, of course, highly debatable (that is to say, we may disagree). Let’s start with your comparison of Covid-19 to flus and colds. As I’ve said before to Bianca, the comparison to flu is a convenient analogy because of the overlapping (not identical) symptoms. But that really is where the similiarity stops. Colds don’t even register here, the number of people who’ve died from a cold is so small you’d need an electron microscope to find it. The measures that have been taken are inded unprecedented but so is the virus in some ways (compared to flu): first, the very long incubation period, at least several days longer than flu, which typically knocks you out within a day or two, which prevents you from spreading it to very many people, so Covid has a much higher infection rate; second, what’s happening is not unique to the US but is happening in just about every country in the world, and the measures taken are largely the same. Now, you, personally (or Thomas et al.) may think that a death rate of 1% as opposed to 0.1% does not mean that much and the decision to practice social distancing and all the rest of it, for weeks or months (who knows?) is arbitrary and therefore unjustified. Well, perhaps; that’s your opinion. It’s a bit like the age of consent for sex or alcohol, it’s always going to be some number or other that is the tipping point, where we hit the brakes. Another way of looking at it is: why were we not, at the very least, doing more to prevent the spread of flu, which also kills people every year? I don’t mean social distancing: I mean, when I look at the measures being taken by supermarkets in Canada to protect their employees and customers (washing cart and basket handles, for example)… Just because we’ve ignored so much of what public health medicine has warned us about in the past couple of decades (including the likelihood of a pandemic exactly like this) from conservative governments opposed to supplying clean needles to addicts to anti-prostitution laws that put women in danger, doesn’t mean we were right about any of it. Another thing, social distancing and individual overreaction are two different things and they don’t need to lead to permanent job loss. Of course there are layoffs in the short term. Starbucks still sells coffee on a grab and go, McDonalds still lets you buy from the drive through, and a lot of white collar employees can work from home. I will add: a lot of people prefer it, but organizations have clung to the “office” model more out of inertia than any other reason. When we come out the other end of this thing, we’ll have gone through a transformative experience which will change the world, much for the better: more people working from home means fewer cars in the daily commute means less car exhaust means less air pollution means spending less on gas means less stress on infrastructure. Protective measures undertaken by the supermarkets won’t go away either. What we have begun to do now will probably lead to fewer people getting flu and other diseases too. So there’s a silver lining to this “deadly tragic farce” cloud, if thats what it is–I’ve yet to see proof of that being what it is, though. But stay vigilant. We need that. Just try to keep to the facts. You say there’s a treatment. I’m sure there are many, but as yet none of them are proven beyond anecdotes. It takes time to do proper scientifically rigorous research. You need to know it works when people don’t know if they’re getting a placebo. You need to know about side-effects. And so on. Be well A.T. and stay sharp.
Thank you for explaining your position.
I’ve come across at least one source claiming, likely from a CDC page long gone, that 4500 people in the U.S. die of rhinovirus, which accounts for half the common colds.
Rhinoviruses account for around half the recorded common cold infections and is endemic to the background pathogen level year-round.
Its odd that COVID-19 is all the fashionable panic, while the other URI killers are so poorly documented even now.
https://diseasej14.imascientist.org.uk/question/how-many-people-die-from-the-common-cold-every-year/
I’m not sure that any words get the concept of COVID-19 mass deception across like ‘COVID-19 is a hybrid hoax’. Trump is a master of messaging, and if he’s using the word ‘hoax’, I can piggyback on that.
Trump did use the word ‘hoax’ to rebut accusations that he mishandled the pandemic, but not in direct reference to COVID-19 itself. COVID-19 has the potential to become another false ‘gate scandal alongside Russiagate and Ukrainegate.
Some of Trump’s most controversial moves, like tightening the U.S. border, then cutting flights to China, then Europe, were ahead of the curve. Even China now has given in and curtailed international incoming flights to prevent a ‘second wave’.
Accusations that Trump cut a layer of health bureaucracy in the U.S. or China are spurious. The powers of the Federal government over health care extend only to interstate commerce. Health delivery is a state responsibility. The CDC can’t act independently in China, and if China was limiting their movements, there’s no point to them being there.
Health care in the U.S. has long been a disaster even before COVID-19. There’s a partisan divide as to whether health care is a personal responsibility, a privilege, or a right.
“US health care is an ongoing miserable failure_ – Anders Åslund, The Hill, Jan. 5, 2019.
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/423865-us-health-care-is-an-ongoing-miserable-failure
Nor was Trump responsible for the wave of medical equipment hysteria that saw hoarders scooping up disposable medical gear, especially n-95 masks. That’s owned by a few captured alt news and prepper propagandists. As a result, real medical care in the U.S. faces real shortages on top of state-and-industry induced cost cutting.
Cuts in health care are state and private industry prerogatives and they own any deficiency in health care capacity.
Its up to individual voters in each state to demand answers to reduced hospital capacity. Canada is little different. Spare capacity was cut back to save money, despite an aging population.
Canadian politics is sort of a lite model of what the elites would have liked to happen under a Hilary double coronation as Democratic Presidential Candidate, then POTUS. That would have meant faux progressives firmly in power and real progressives and conservatives in disarray unable to find purchase as effective opposition on both sides of the border. Faux progressives are like horse whisperers at a glue factory.
PM Trudeau’s spending power grab was stopped – but so was the Conservative Party leadership race. Party leadership races are one of few outlets for participation in the representative government process. Its safe to assume, however, that Pelosi’s US$ 2 trillion dollar COVID-19 emergency bill also makes up for almost four years cut off from the Presidential trough.
The U.S. spending bill will not put an ECMO cardio-pulminary oxygenation machine in every hospital and bottle of vitamin C on every table.
COVID-19 likely does not in and of itself hit above and beyond the pre-existing background pathogen levels. COVID-19 stats mistakenly assume everyone gets comparable health treatment, while panics are not factored in.
Singapore had until recently no deaths and a very slow rate of transmission. The Singaproean culture also genuinely respects their elders.
COVID-19: Recovery Patterns in Singapore (2020)
https://wiki.sg/p/COVID-19:_Recovery_Patterns_in_Singapore_(2020)?fbclid=IwAR3rJ3E2GdQGJebR4TrxeCAUhPEeZ1qceQY8OnzikR7EsntJyM6exhC_wV4
On the other side of the spectrum, Italy and Spain can’t seem to abandon their elderly fast enough.
“Uncounted among coronavirus victims, deaths sweep through Italy’s nursing homes” – Emilio Parodi, Reuters, March 18, 2020.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-homes-insigh-idUSKBN2152V0
Its so bad in Italy, the aged can’t be added to the COVID-19 death toll fast enough.
“Spain extends coronavirus lockdown, in ‘war’ to buy medical supplies” – Nathan Allen, Inti Landauro, Reuters, March 26, 2020.
https://in.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-emergency-idINKBN21D0RH
““Old people have been abandoned in an astonishing way,” said Carmen Flores, head of patients’ rights group Defensor del Paciente.
Its not hard to figure out how this geronticide is happening. The elderly are vulnerable to dehydration, and if denied IV support, will not or cannot stay hydrated on their own.
Senicide is one of the great open scandals of COVID-19 everyone is lulled into accepting. To parody visciously the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Company) faux progressive meme book, geronticide, like killing civil rights, is what the adults in the room accept as tragic neccessity. Geronticide is always unacceptable, however.
“Op-Ed: How our healthcare system can be deadly to the elderly” – Marcy Cottrell Houle, L.A. Times, Sep. 1, 2015.
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0901-houle-elderly-health-20150901-story.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senicide
Public health care throughout the world has been being cut, despite an increase in the elderly population. Guess there just wasn’t enough money to support the aged AND high wages AND corruption. Someone had to go in the triage – the patient.
Italy’s healthcare reform” – Brigitte Dinkloh, Health Care in Europe, April 30, 2012.
https://healthcare-in-europe.com/en/news/italy-s-healthcare-reform.html#
This has been reported for over a decade, to mass apathy. This is not an attack on public health care, but upon the willfully negligent potiticians and all news media fostering a serious lack of accountability and democratic apathy.
There appear to be the outright fear, that squeaking too loud will mean introducing private health care into Canada and two-tier health care. Yet, two-tier exists anyway. Two-tier in Canada means those who can afford to, become medical tourists in the U.S., Mexico, and elsewhere. COVID-19 pops that system; no-one can travel.
“The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care” – David Gratzer, City Journal, Summer 2007.
https://www.city-journal.org/html/ugly-truth-about-canadian-health-care-13032.html
Things haven’t changed since 2007.
“Federal Budget 2018 falls short on health care” – The College of Family Physicians of canada, February 28, 2018.
https://www.cfpc.ca/federal-budget-2018-falls-short-health-care/
A feeble attempt at Canadian public news accountability, wrote off a bi-partisan reduction in the rate of health care spending as ‘not a cut’. Obviously the reporter didn’t follow the birdie good and came out the wrong side of sophistry.
Canadians aren’t getting younger; holding the line or reducing the rate of health care spending is indeed a cut relative to actual need.
https://globalnews.ca/news/3015091/fact-check-is-ottawa-cutting-60b-in-health-funding/
“Fact check: Is Ottawa cutting $60B in health funding?” – Bruce Cheadle, The Canadian Press, Global News, October 20, 2016.
If the most vulnerable are left without health care support, and abondoned to die of URIs, this will artificially inflate the death rate.
Arguments of 1% versus 0.1% are nearly meaningless; not every population by national and age demographic is getting close to equivalent health-care support.
Arguments to ‘flatten the curve’ are also dubious, more like a propaganda technique to give the public a false sense of participation in health policy and misattribute the real reason COVID-19 ended – spring came.
The public should be asking, what happened to all the spare medical capacity. Why wasn’t it being funded, why were there cuts, why isn’t health spending keeping pace with the elderly, and to what extent are the elderly being abandoned by health care.
Flu season is from October to March in North America; the peak threat period of all colds and flus is ending. The weather warms, and there is more sunlight.
Staying indoors and sheltering in place as advocated by some Canadian and U.S. health agencies will impede sunlight-based restoration of individual vitamin D levels, an immune vitamin associated with good anti-influenza effects.
“Vitamin D for influenza” – Gerry Schwalfenberg, MD, Canadian Family Physician, 61(6):507 June 2015.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4463890/
The feared spike is being exchanged for a stretched-out period of emergency while panic-promoters frantically scramble to find (if not foster) every last possible COVID-19 case to justify the mass panic, hysteria and economic damage they’ve created.
I did a little fact checking on rhinovirus deaths of children in the US and the reason that CDC text is gone is likely that it’s based on old information. That figure of 4500 deaths p.a. is from 1985. Here’s an update:
https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/183/1/16/813122
The reason I use 1% versus 0.1% is not because I believe it is set in stone. I know the rate varies considerably between countries–and for too many reasons to take them all into consideration. I use it as a conservative estimate. It’s much lower than the figures in Italy and elsewhere, for many of the reasons you stated.
We agree on the trend in de-funding public health medicine (and health care in general) was a bad idea generally, particularly in nations with ageing populations. This is not really the main topic of discussion, but it’s germane in the sense that readiness certainly has been key to the checking of the spread of the virus in South Korea. But that readiness is less about the number of beds, ICUs, ventilators and staff, and more about the preventive measures taken by authorities following the initial spread blamed on the local religious group. These preventive measures, by most estimations, are the reason why South Korea has come off better than most other OECD or near OECD-level countries so far.
You appear to be, with Trump and a few of his “die”-hard fellow travellers (the Lt.-Gov. of Texas, Bret Hume and Glen Beck, all of whom can work from home and/or have access to the best health care available), suggesting that the preventive measures being taken (worldwide, I must point out) are either unncessary in face of the threat (you claim they are out of proportion) because the threat is not perfectly quantified. As I said, a conservative estimate is 1% deaths. Let’s take the UK. If only 60% of their 60 million people got the virus and 1% of that figure died, that would mean 400,000 deaths. If we’re talking .5%,it’s 200,000. .25%, 100,000. It’s really about the rate of infection combined with death rate that makes this what it is.
That’s why you can’t compare this even to the rhinovirus (an outlier among colds which I was interested to learn about) or seasonal flu, for which we have developed vaccines which mitigate effects even when they don’t prevent the disease. In other words, it’s not an overreaction on the part of scientists and public health medicine. They have had to drag decision makers kicking and screaming, for the most part, in the countries with the biggest GDPs, like the UK, like the US, precisely because they are the ones whose governments are the most beholden to those who have most to lose: the billionnaires and multinational corporations. While it’s absolutely possible, even likely, that the pandemic will be used by the spy-friendly community to increase their surveillance of us, or potentially curb freedoms etc., that is not the primary motiviation of doctors and pathologists, and others who work public health. It’s also not what drives people who are primarily intersted in making money (Trump) and that’s why so many people in governments around the world did not want to listen.
I believe you are making a mistake in conflating the actions and guessing at the motives of these disparate groups of people. Basically, there is no hoax. There may be abuse, now or later, but the virus itself is not being oversold–you’d have to make the case that hundreds of public health officials in hundreds of countries around the entire world are acting in concert with governments of all stripes to accomplish this goal at the expense of their economies–why? They can’t possibly have all have the same interests in doing so, their economies, way of life, government structures, are too different. It’s not as though China’s CP needed more absolute power.
If there’s one thing we do know for sure, it’s that the number of infected is grossly underestimated and will remain so until we get to a point where we really are “testing, testing, testing”. Here in Winnipeg only people with symptoms who have travelled or who have a connection to travel are being tested as far as I know. If there is community spread happening right now, we don’t know about it yet. Hence our numbers have been “low”.
One more thing, it’s not just about the number of deaths in a year. 4500 in a year is one thing. 2000 in two weeks is quite another. Pardon me if I sound alarmist to you, but this is happening before your eyes. As this tends to follow an exponential curve when left unchecked, how much will it be in another two weeks, and another? How long before the hospitals are completely overwhelmed? Why do you think NYC is converting large buildings into wards? And why did China build enitrely new hospitals in a matter of days? It was because they needed some place to treat all those people outside regular hospitals. You must take into consideration that these deaths (and the ICUs being filled with patients on top of that) all represent numbers IN ADDITION to existing annual illnesses and deaths which you refer to as “background”. It’s called a “novel” virus for a reason.
You should understand this better than most, knowing what you do about the neglect of public health in many countries. I’m not quite sure how you don’t put two and two together on this, actually. That is, you have, but you don’t take it into consideration when you conclude, for reasons which don’t appear to have anything backing them up, that this is in any way a hoax. The reason we are scrambling about and locking down is, at least in part, because we have neglected health care. We have valued an “efficient” system over a system which is prepared for the unforeseen. We have tried to replicate the efficiency of the private sector in a number of areas of government–not filling vacancies till absolutely needed, as opposed to the built in redundancy required in the face of emergencies.
And finally, you are assuming that the virus will disappear by spring, like Trump’s “miracle”. There’s no evidence of that, unfortunately. The virus has managed to appear in the Yukon, Northwest Territories, Singapore (90-120 F in winter) and in Brazil. It does not appear to fear the heat or the cold.
Thank your for the update. The article is from 2001; not the best info to work with.
The pathogen referenced is RSV (Respiratory Syncytial Virus) co-infected with bronchitus (secondary or co-infection infection being a leading cause of cold/flu deaths). RSV are a separate family of cold viruses from rhinoviruses.
Again, the lack of statistical diligence wrt seasonally deadly colds and flus, and statistical extremism over CVOID-19, lends credence to the supposition that COVID-19 is a hybrid hoax; real threat, greatly exaggerated as a pretext or unprecedented socio-political-economic disruption worldwide.
We don’t even know COVID-19’s incidence of co-infection with influence and colds. This is critical information, given that MSM panic-induced visits to hospital emergency rooms and poorly run ad hoc testing centres, turn testing centres into spreader centres.
Respiratory Syncytial Virus Infection (RSV)
https://www.cdc.gov/rsv/index.html
WebMD, a science-based online medical guide, cites that 20%-40% of colds are caused by rhinoviruses, 20% by coronaviruses, and 20% divided among RSV and parainfluenza. 20%-30% are preseumed viral but unidentified.
This would make RSV, based on a combination of up-to and outdated figures, responsble for up tp 10% of colds while racking up an impressive tally of 4500 fatalities.
“What’s Causing My Cold?” – WebMD, undated (presumeably up-to-date).
https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_cold_causes
However, MedicalNewsToday claims over half of colds toay are caused by rhinoviruses.
What’s the link between cold weather and the common cold?” – Reviewed by Alana Biggers, MD, MPH, MedicalNewsToday, October 23, 2018.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323431
The most effective Asian measures to control the spread of COVID-19 are not as simple as ‘trace, track and treat’, but how the protocol was applied.
It was certainly helpful some Asian countries had a higher degree of social self-discipline and trust in government, such that voluntary cooperation with health authorities using a cellphone app was possible.
“5 Reasons Donald Trump Can’t Copy South Korea’s Coronavirus Strategy” – Robert E. Kelly, National Interest, March 14, 2020.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/korea-watch/5-reasons-donald-trump-cant-copy-south-koreas-coronavirus-strategy-133262
The most important factors were limiting opportunities for community spread using voluntary self-quarantine, competent testing, and competent treatment delivery.
Drive-thru testing, for example, is somewhat safer than crowd-lineups at emergency rooms and testing (spreading?) centres. Being taken to the hospital by medical professionals if self-treatment at home fails, is better than staggering in oneself or being dropped off by friends or relatives.
It may be assumed that the Korean drive-thru testers also used proper personal protective equipment (PPE) protocols, which would include a new mask and glove set for each new patient. That U.S. drive-thru testers are as disciplined to protocol, is uncertain.
In theory a competent private health plan would have monitoring and treatment package. These do exist; many private companies offer remote senior monitoring. For a price.
There’s nothing being done in Asia for COVID-19, that isn’t already being done here in a different context (for-pay elderly surveillance and care).
https://www.care.com/c/stories/14960/remote-monitoring-for-seniors/
The rate of spread of seasonal flus and colds remains ill-documented. The CDC, fronts numerical influenza estimates in percentages, not numbers.
This is in sharp contrast to the discrete, at-glance numbers given everywhere else for COVID-19. This kind of information presentation bias, is suggestive of propaganda technique.
Nonetheless, there have been 20,000 fatalities from influenza strains. Influenza has been very busy spreading and killing.
20,000 deaths/5 months (since October, start of 2019-20 flu season, to February (last report) = 4000/month, or roughly 2000 every two weeks. Conveniently matching COVID-19.
We don’t panic over such spread numbers. That we are, highlights the hoax factor of COVID-19 where we are being told to panic by accurate but misrepresented information.
The 2017-18 flu season in its entirely racked up an estimated 80,000 deaths. 80,000/6 months (Oct.-Mar.) = 13,333.33/mo. in influenza mortalities, or, 6,666.66/2wks..
COVID-19 may have an alarming flu-like spread rate NOW, but we’re seeing the effects of over two weeks prior panic, including crowding at testing (spreading) centres guaranteeing URI co-infections and greater community spread as those infected-as-tested return to their immediate local communities. Furthermore, many were likely newly infected or additionally infected by congregating amongst the potentially ill.
Without co-infection data, COVID-19 stats are unreliable, as COVID-19 politicization would almost certainly demand priority of COVID-19 in all co-infections. We are only given one infection, though the CDC is said to test for influenza by default.
Weekly U.S. Influenza Surveillance Report
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/#S6
Cases in U.S. (COVID-19)
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html
“Flu has killed 20,000 Americans so far this season, including 136 children, CDC says” – Stephen Smith, March 9, 2020.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/flu-deaths-20000-americans-this-season-including-136-children-cdc/
As important as it is for there to be well-funded science, public deception ‘for the greater good’ is unacceptable from the scientific community and political leaderships. All the political leaderships had to do was cut out the corruption. All the scientists had to do is tell the truth. However, apparently everything must be a politicized game. Instead they gamed the syste.
Gaming the system is what humans do, but there are supposed to be moral limits enforced by society.
My argument WAS in fact, that underfunding medical capacity was part of the hoax. Instigating a complex social phnomenon like a public panic would take years of planning.
Singapore has the best CVID-19 record of any infected nation. COVID-19 infection spreads, likely well within the local cold/flu envelope. Suggesting Singapore’s warm weather is not a factor is disingenuous.
Colds and flus do occur in warmer nations. The latest science suggests, that in northern latitudes, dry air aids in cold weather spread, while in tropical countries, surface moisture contributes to spread.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20151016-the-real-reason-germs-spread-in-the-winter
There is no treatment for colds except to let them run their course, supporting the body’s natural immune response-and-recovery systems. That is what we expect health care to provide when victims cannot by themselves.
Natural checks on the illness, is not just spring warmth, but additional sunshine. Add to that, ambient humidity.
The hybrid hoax of COVID-19 is clearly visible with a basic understanding of the cyclical cold/flu phenomenon.
We did not need to panic over COVID-19. We did no need to give up our rights and shut down the economy over COVID-19. That we have, is the product of a decision by an elite faction to panic.
This decision was backed by extensive and ongoing media propaganda and government intervention.
COVID-19 is a hybrid hoax testing the limits of public intelligence and sensitivity to being deprived of their rights including right of economic opportunity.
It will be interesting to see how this pans out with the coming of spring. Your argument is well articulated, but a bit “gamed” as well, if you’ll forgive me, in the sense that it’s impossible to prove or refute your hypothesis. It’s grounded on your interpretation of the stats, thus far, and the comparison tacitly assumes that the total number of deaths in this short span of time is equal to flu/cold within the same span of time (even if we are able to discreetly tell the difference between flu and corona, in which case I’d argue the additional number of deaths still arguably justified the need to protect people and the capacity of the health care system). But if it does end up higher, you say, it’s because of the potential for co-morbidity and/or the increase of infections caused by the numbers of people going to be tested (infected). That last part may be true in countries where that part has not been thought through, or which lack the necessary equipment in the necessary quantities (it could be very bad indeed as it reaches sub-Saharan Africa).
Looking at this purely in terms of numbers (which are as yet incomplete), your argument may be persuasive, though you must admit, it cannot be finally convincing when it all stands or falls on your interpretation of what those numbers actually mean (or can potentially mean)–in any case, we’ll have to wait till the final tally to know if it’s possible for you to be right about this. How many deaths would you accept as attributed to coronvirus before you’d say it was not an overreaction? I’m assuming there is one. Like if it was ebola for example, with it’s 80 percent death rate (let’s assume a more virulent form of it). I said in my last message that the number is always going to be arbitrary, I didn’t think to ask if you agreed there should be a number.
Finally, you did not address the elephant in the room, which I also brought up. It is inconceivable that over a hundred countries’ scientists are all prescribing the same remedy to a medical problem in the name of their supposed masters in government, against the economic interests of those countries, when those countries leaders have been openly against it. See Brazil most recently. Why, given that the world is divided on so many other issues and (broadly) guided by self-interest, would they, en masse, do such a thing? If this was just the US, I could see your point. You can’t possibly, seriously suggest that Iran is complicit. That China is complicit. Brazil. India. On and on. It beggars belief. Again, the degree of social control you believe is the end rather than the means to an end, is of absolutely no benefit politically or economically. If this were a murder, the motive makes no sense. Occam’s razor demands that we acknowledge that of two explanations for a phenomenon, the simplest one is the more likely. Your suggestion requires us to believe in a web of manipulation that extends to more doctors and politiicans than can be counted. Governments do not want to have to pay 75 percent of a bunch of employee’s wages for four months (Canada) to prevent layoffs or delay rent being paid or all the rest of it. And given the democracies change governments every 4 or so years, it’s inconceivable that such a plan would be agreed upon that far in advance, when you yourself concede the virus is real and not engineered. For us to believe it’s a deliberate overreaction would mean they had planned for years for such a virus in advance, but that would mean getting over a hundred governments AND THEIR SUCCESSORS to do this. Again, for what purpose? Not in their interests. I’m going to have to call this a day. Hit me up in a month or so when there are somewhere between 30000 and 200000 deaths (I sincerely hope not more) in the US.
I can address the large mammal moving your goalposts. Upon it rides Death wielding a scythe screaming “Die, Boomer, just die!”.
All governments face the same problem – the global aging and depopulation bomb and accompanying economic decline and civil unrest. All the world is aging, save for some African countries.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/billconerly/2019/02/23/global-population-decline-and-economic-growth/#49f95032e847
The world population – the labour and consumer base – is aging and shrinking, All prosperity has been based on constant economic growth, which can’t be taken for granted anymore.
https://www.manufacturing.net/home/news/13208517/global-study-world-not-ready-for-aging-population
Endless market vistas are no more, as the world population becomes elderly and invalid supported by relatively fewer breeding pairs and their offspring.
By coincidence, COVID-19 largely spares children but is death on the elderly.
However, an empowered, ethical middle class society might have succeed in saving their loved ones for a more humane farewell. Albeit at great cost of wealth the financial oligarchy would rather take for themselves. Economic crash and social reset fixes that.
Most of those scientists you cite as all agreeing on the same solution, are government-paid scientists via their employment with the state, state-affiliated academia, and think tanks and so forth.
For example, the solution to global warming advocated by dark greens is not unlike what is happening now. A radical remake of the global economy for the greater security of its financial masters under the pretext of saving the world through green living.
This translates in reality into the reduction of citizens from an economically and politically empowered middle class who can make demands, to dirt peasants under the oligarchy who can only serve.
The real solution to CO2 is left to a tainted messenger, Russ George, an American who ignited a Canadian controversy by iron-fertilizing the deep ocean phytoplankton pastures to bring back the salmon.
http://www.russgeorge.net
https://www.cbc.ca/fifth/episodes/2012-2013/ironman
Humanity will not survive well, if at all, the extinction of phytoplankton. However, surviving our sociopathic elites is suddenly front-and-centre.
You won’t find intellectual dissent easily. Who isn’t bought, is disenfranchised from the mainstream alt and MSM media.
A.T., the moment you accused me of moving *my* goalposts when the entire burden of proof lies with you to find a single molecule of proof of your hypothesis, and the moment you said it “spares” children when they have died too, just in tiny numbers, mere days after a baby died in Chicago, you lost me. I’ve done no such thing. I’ve been engaging you in good faith. I’ve listened and considered what you’ve had to say. I’ve made the odd mistake, Googling the 4500 number and picking up an article on the wrong virus.
There’s the equivalent of several MASH units being built in Central Park as we speak.The world’s largest hospital is being built in the Docklands in London. Thirty percent of those in critical care with the virus in Canada are not Boomers (or Silent or Greatest, who are the most at risk, not Boomers). They are Gen X and even older Millennials. This puts paid to your newly espoused but not explicitly stated theory that the virus is a bioweapon engineered to take out the elderly.
I’m not the one moving goalposts: you started off with an interesting if poorly articulated position (your beloved “hybrid hoax” phrase), and now you’ve gone further down into the usual unprovable science fiction B movie plot of the conspiracy theorist. I think you are better than this. The light of the scientific method requires that it be possible to test a hypothesis. In the absence of such, you must be able to apply Occam’s razor to any two propositions and excise the one requiring the more complicated explanation. It’s a virus. Viruses mutate. It’s sequencing is published.
You say that all the scientists, presumably including those working on a vaccine, are under government pay–they are not, there are plenty of private labs. For your fantasy to be real, we’d have to accept an absurdly complex level of conspiracy AND competence that simply DOES NOT EXIST as revealed time and time again by the failures of American foreign adventurism alone for the last 20 years, never mind some kind of dark back channel coordination with well over 100 governments.
That’s not just improbable, it’s borderline delusional and demosntrably false: there was intellectual dissent, as you put it. Sweden, Holland, and the UK all thought they would simply ignore it till it got there. Those who believe as you do, while intelligent, both overestimate the competence of a shadowy neo-world government and their own scientific competence; the more sophisticated the conspiracy theory, the less sophisticated and rational are its underpinnings. It is the security blanket of the emotionally vulnerable (it assuages fear of the unknown by offering an escape from reality) and the darkly cynical.
I don’t blame any American for being that cynical about their government, actually. But the level of malicious or Malthusian motivation, not to say the logistics which are simply impossible, which I covered last time,… no, just, no. It is natural and rational to fear the unknown and change that is forced upon us, and to be angry and suspicious of that which we don’t understand and can’t control, except within the narrow parameters left to us. But on this topic, you have abandoned reason. You close off simple, rational explanation in favour of phantoms. You refer to environmentalists as “dark greens” (like “dark jedi”?)–you really think they are on the same side as Big Shadowy Government which is beholden to Big Corporations? I don’t think I can continue to enable this. I am not moving goalposts, I am pointing out evidence that contradicts you but you refuse to accept it.
“I am not moving goalposts, I am building an insurmountable wall of text.”
Fixed, no charge.
Normally those little comments of yours are on point, Thomas. Normally you do that with people who are saying things that are demonstrably untrue. This is just saying I had a lot to say. If you can point to anything I said which is untrue or off topic, do so. My “wall of text” is shorter than some of A.T.’s, yet I’m the one you take a shot at. Do you believe his idea it’s a bioweapon too, or do you just support the idea that the several thousand deaths in a matter of weeks is just no big deal? I agreed with you a while back that closing the border would not accomplish anything because it was already too late to stop the spread. In fact, I am on record agreeing with you a lot (I used to be one of the generic Brian’s) on here. But there we are.
“Wall of text” isn’t a function of amount of text. It’s a function of not using paragraph breaks.
I’m not going to respond to it because it was unreadable, not because I disagree with it.
Now that you’ve responded in short enough form that I can actually read it in the absence of paragraph breaks:
1) No, I don’t believe COVID-19 is a bio-weapon. I haven’t seen any reason to suspect that.
2) No, I don’t support the idea that thousands of deaths is no big deal, although shutting down the economy over it is fucking stupid and likely to increase, not decrease, the true body count.
Not sure what happened, but I hadn’t changed anything by the time you responded. I just added paragraph breaks now. Maybe the format looked different to you than it did to me.
I respectfully disagree with calling this “shutting down the economy” even if a slowed or frozen economy is a logical function of social distancing which is most effective defence we have for now. And there are ways of making this less painful, but the US seems a bit slow on that point (except for bailouts for big business). I also disagree that this will lead to more deaths than the virus if you did nothing (but there’s no way to prove that definitively). At the end of the day, this is a game of Your Money or Your Life and I choose Life. You could say choosing Money is also choosing Life, but indirectly. I prefer the direct approach. You can always make more money (literally). You can’t resurrect the dead.
ZF: “… we’d have to accept an absurdly complex level of conspiracy AND competence that simply DOES NOT EXIST … never mind some kind of dark back channel coordination with well over 100 governments.”
B: The international COVID-19 response is in fact the most incompetent medical response I’ve ever seen, real or make-believe, and I’ve seen a few bad pandemic movies.
Its less a conspiracy than mass insult to human intelligence, playing on Kay’s line in the movie “Men in Black” (1997) “A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.”
Quote: “Dr Joel Kettner (JK): Well I don’t know what to think, frankly, but I’ll tell you what I do think. First, I wanna say that in 30 years of public health medicine I have never seen anything like this, anything anywhere near like this. I’m not talking about the pandemic, because I’ve seen 30 of them, one every year. It is called influenza. And other respiratory illness viruses, we don’t always know what they are. But I’ve never seen this reaction, and I’m trying to understand why.”
“LISTEN: CBC Radio cuts off expert when he questions Covid19 narrative” – Cory Morningstar, Twitter, Off-Guardian, Mar. 17, 2020.
https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/17/listen-cbc-radio-cuts-off-expert-when-he-questions-covid19-narrative/
Dr. Kettner isn’t so much as cut off as brushed off the platform. CCC host Duncan McCue has lost any claim to be a real journalist and was clearly caught off-guard and reacted as a propagandist protecting a narrative, not a real man of the Fourth Estate.
However you may dismiss Off Guardian as a conspiracy site, CBC “Cross Country Checkup” is a real CBC program, we have the recording of the interaction, and we have Kettner’s bona fides as a real high-level Doctor of Medicine, former Chief Medical Officer of an important Canadian province (Manitoba) who still teaches medicine at Manitoba university.
If WHO Director-General Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus (himself a paragon of incompetence and incoherence) backs the propaganda narrative, then the pressure will mount on lesser health bureaucrats in all countries to cover their rears by any means possible.
No politician wants to look culpable in even one COVID-19 death. Any number of diverse private and even competing and opposed interests may come together seeking profit in chaos. We’ve seen fostered panic over Saddam’s WMDS, and we’ve seen the same over 9/11.
COVID-19 as a pretext for killing the economy is the greatest deception since 9/11 somehow had us invading Saddam’s Iraq. Both were monumental geopolitical blunders that made a handful of neocons rich but squandered the rest of the West’s privileged place in the world.
The tens of thousands of influenza deaths, no-one cares. The health cuts crippling Western capacity to deal with rising health care needs, no-one cares. But suddenly we all panic over COVID-19 because some alt and all MSM media says we should. Backed by government force.
ZF: “… the moment you said it “spares” children when they have died too, just in tiny numbers, mere days after a baby died in Chicago, you lost me. I’ve done no such thing.”
B: Now you’re being a nitpick nazi in the wost way. I never said children couldn’t die of COVID-19, and most who’ve done a Search would understand the context of my wordage. The illness does in fact spare children far more than elderly adults.
Search engine headline: “Coronavirus mysteriously spares children; scientists aren’t …” connects to the article:
“Kids resistant to coronavirus, but scientists aren’t sure why” – Mary Hynes, Las Vegas Review-Journal, March 11, 2020.
https://www.reviewjournal.com/life/health/kids-resistant-to-coronavirus-but-scientists-arent-sure-why-1977008/
“Why the New Coronavirus (Mostly) Spares Children” – Apoorva Mandavilli, New York Times, Feb. 5, 2020, Updated March 14, 2020″
The article leads, “So far, very few young children seem to be falling ill. The pattern was seen in outbreaks of SARS and MERS, too.”
ZH: “There’s the equivalent of several MASH units being built in Central Park as we speak… This puts paid to your newly espoused but not explicitly stated theory that the virus is a bioweapon engineered to take out the elderly.”
B: New york State like other urban jurisdictions has been cutting back on health care for decades. If city hospitals are functioning at 100%, then 110%, then 120%, sooner or later there’s going to be a breaking point where hallway medicine can’t even handle a normal cold/flu year and becomes a serious crisis.
America has not only an aging population but one weakened by the opiod epidemic and underemployment, which prevents people from properly looking after themselves and their loved ones including those most vulnerable to dying of colds and flus.
Nor are any implied beleifs on my part deceptive. I stated in another thread, that the possibility of biowarfare should be kept open to interpetation to keep potential biowarfare players honest. I have also noted that geronticide was a factor in inflated COVID-19 death numbers.
You introduced the idea that the mass hysteria of governments was unexplained. I addressed that; they share an interest in the geopolitics of aging. I could go on:
“Think Again: Global Aging: A gray tsunami is sweeping the planet — and not just in the places you expect. How did the world get so old, so fast?” – Phillip Longman, October 12, 2010.
“… Once, demographers believed, following a long line of ancient thinkers from Tacitus and Cicero in late Rome to Ibn Khaldun in the medieval Arab world, that population aging and decline were particular traits of “civilized” countries that had obtained a high degree of luxury. Reflecting on the fate of Rome, Charles Darwin’s grandson bemoaned a pattern he saw throughout history: “Must civilization always lead to the limitation of families and consequent decay and then replacement from barbaric sources, which in turn will go through the same experience?” ”
This likely refers to Charles Galton Darwin, a contemporary of Halford Mackinder. Not sure if the two ever met or corresponded, though. According to the Wiki, Galton Darwin was into eugenics as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Galton_Darwin
I’m sure the ‘third way’ advocated by Longman did not include geronticide, but as an intellectual, he only proposes policy and has no say in choosing and implementation.
ZH: “…you started off with an interesting if poorly articulated position (your beloved “hybrid hoax” phrase), and now you’ve gone further down into the usual unprovable science fiction B movie plot of the conspiracy theorist…. you must be able to apply Occam’s razor to any two propositions and excise the one requiring the more complicated explanation. It’s a virus. Viruses mutate. It’s sequencing is published.”
B” Yet, you default to the social control meme of ‘conspiracy theory’, to dismiss any argument you don’t like, without explanation as to why. Yes, the sequencing is published. Yes, people are looking at that history. The strains in North America and Italy are different from that of China; rather odd that. Yet a real and potent alternative news website such as Global research, you dismiss as a conspiracy site.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-19-two-major-waves-of-global-infection-towards-global-contamination/5707588
Its easy to tell the fake news; look for shallow reportage. For example, the latest sinophobic smear is that Chinese test kits shipped to Europe are defective. The Chinese, on the other hand, claim the test kits were improperly used. Local government officials say the kits, designed to detect antibodies, not the actual virus, work.
My opinion of fake news is, validate sources, check the depth of reportage. Even the most partisan sites may have a traceable kernal of truth (faux progressive sites, far less often than RINO sites). Odds are, Chinese test kits validated by the Chinese government work, but crooks are cashing in with poorly made test kits as they are with fake masks.
“COVID-19 provides basis for attack on China by neo-liberal marketeers” – Stephen Chang, China Daily, 2020-02-27.
http://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202002/27/WS5e572285a31012821727ab06.html
Geronticide is n the open. Those old folks need IV support, not sedatives.
“They just sedate them”; coronavirus overwhelms Spain’s care homes” – Nacho Doce, Nathan Allen, Reuters, April 3, 2020.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-homes/they-just-sedate-them-coronavirus-overwhelms-spains-care-homes-idUSKBN21L2TP
When a nursing home gets labelled with COVID-19, relatives are cut off. They can’t oversee a loved-ones care or care for them themselves. This was already happening without COVID-19, even in Canada.
“Seniors’ homes using ‘trespass orders’ to ban family members from visiting: Act used illegally to stifle people from speaking out about conditions, Ontario lawyer says.” – Katie Pedersen, Melissa Mancini, David Common, CBC News, Nov 23, 2019.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/seniors-trespass-family-banned-1.5365231
Its hard not to conclude, COVID-19 provides a convenient pretext for geronticide, that in another context would have democratic society screaming for the heads of bed-cutting health bureaucrats and politicians.
COVID-19 serves other geopolitical goals long-term, like killing libertarian society, mass vaccinations and chipping the masses, of course.
Occam’s razor cuts both ways. “When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” – Sherlock Holmes, Mary Sue of Arthur Conan Doyle.
https://philosiblog.com/2012/05/22/when-you-have-eliminated-the-impossible-whatever-remains-however-improbable-must-be-the-truth/
I won’t address all of your points, just a couple for illustrative purposes.
First, I looked at the Off-Guardian transcription, framed from the get go in conspiracy theory language “questions the narrative” and note the intrusive editorial sensationalism, i.e., the host “cuts him off”. The doctor did nothing more nor less than say he wishes we had better data and worries about the effects these measures will have. He said what we already know, that all of this is unprecedented in our lifetimes. He didn’t say he didn’t agree with any of it, nor did he say we are being fed lies or a false narrative. He expressed concerns. He was not “cut off” mid-sentence. I am very aware of how Cross-Country Check-Up works, I assume you are too.
The man was not an invited guest on the programme as the other one was. He was a caller on a call-in show. The host can only allocate so much time for each caller, even one with a presitigious background and knowledge. If anything, he was given a lot more time to interact with the actual guest on the show than most people would have been. I listened to the exchange, on YouTube, there’s nothing sinister about this. That’s the problem with a consipiracy-driven mindset. You start to see “evidence” for your pet consipracies everywhere.
The use of the word phrase conspiracy theory is not a “social control” meme, or rather, not only one. It’s a theory about a conspiracy. It could be wrong or right, I’m open to them. I’ll listen to any new idea and judge it on its merits to the extent I can, but I also judge presentation of evidence and judge that accordingly.
This man has not been muzzled or fired. He’s not a whistleblower. He had his time on a public call in radio programme, and that’s the end of the story. If you disagree, you could send him an email or something, he has a website. Ask him how he feels about it. Do some actual research and try to prove or disprove your hypothesis that he was cut off by Canadian BG. The question is, if he says no, will you come out with “He’s under surveillance”? Will you ask me to go watch him from my car since I live in Winnipeg?
I’m not sure I understood the point he was trying to make about China’s early numbers, i.e. “low” rate of infection (they clamped down pretty hard pretty fast, so… wouldn’t you expect they’d have a low rate of infection? Hey, I’m no expert but…). He seemed to be talking about the country as a whole. In any case, rate of infection is not only a function of the virus itself but also a function of the opportunities it is granted–or denied–to spread. I’m sure he knows this.
You’ve already noted there appear to be multiple strains of the virus (that’s not “suspicious”, there is Hep A through J, we only hear about A, B, and C, because the others are rare and always found with one of ABC). I think multiple strains actually might explain some of the early confusion going on in China. It’s possible that what the doctor who died saw isn’t what the WHO saw later. It’s a dynamic situation we’re talking about, one that accelerated exponentially, which you can’t notice when you’re at the start of the function but one you can’t avoid as it gains momentum.
Your fantasy that the virus presents an “opportunity” to practice geronticide is just that. I’m well aware of the crass behaviour of some homes in Ontario reported in 2019, and of the poor conditions in some such homes. It’s not evidence of this or any other thing you promote.
Conspiracy theorists as a group exhibit the same strange contradictory combination of extreme skepticism of authoritative statements but at the same time extreme credulity for non-authoritative, poorly-researched, or poorly thought-out, assertions. They behave like a mirror image of what they accuse others of being: sheep, following an alternate set of leaders. Again, I’m not saying you’re uneducated or uninformed, just that you’re not exercising critical thinking and judgement equally to the sources you believe support your position, and not allowing for simple, likely, rational interpretations. Your quote of Sherlock Holmes reveals that much. You think you’ve disproved all other possible interpretations of the data. You have not. You have not even proved one thing, but assume you have.
One last thing. You don’t get to be sloppy when debating something as serious as this is. You said “it spares children”. You may have known better, but it’s not what you said. Hence, my rather indignant correction of you. You respond with an insult. If you knew that to begin with, as you claim, why did you not say “mostly”? Could it be because it is evidence that flies in the face of your argument, along with all the five year olds, teenagers, twentysomethings, thirtysomethings, fortysomethings who are dying? I told you before I’m not enabling this anymore. You have no rational argument but you deludedly believe you have proven your point despite all of your evidence evaporating. A lot of your quotes are not even tangentially related to the topic, hence I’ve not addressed them. At least I do address the pertinent ones. You just seem to ignore or dismiss anything that doesn’t fit your own “narrative”.
PS The Holmes line, though a wonderful example of Conan Doyle’s prose, is something of a logical fallacy. There’s an implied supposition that epistemology doesn’t matter. That you don’t need to consider the possiblity that you have NOT eliminated all other explanations, or even how you would KNOW if you had. If you took that statement literally you’d have to conclude that UFO events which as yet have no explanation (such as the one in Manitoba in the 60s), MUST have been aliens since we’ve eliminated “all other explanations.” Well, no. We just haven’t thought of any others.
You seem to be framing a wordy strawman attack, accusing me of belligerence and inaccuracy while dodging my evidence.
Again, anyone can read and hear the off-Guardian CCC episode and judge Duncan McCues hosting skills and Dr. Kettner’s words for themselves. Anyone can type in “COVID-19 spares children” into a search engine and get positive results.
I’m sure many CBC listeners will be familiar with your patronizing tone of voice, backed with… well, nothing of substance.
https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/17/listen-cbc-radio-cuts-off-expert-when-he-questions-covid19-narrative/
Anyone can note the carnage on old folks and come to their own conclusions.
“Why Covid-19 is so dangerous for older adults” – Umair Irfan and Julia Belluz, Vox, March 13, 2020.
https://www.vox.com/2020/3/12/21173783/coronavirus-death-age-covid-19-elderly-seniors
Common sense backed by the literature is more subtle than sneering accredited villains stepping forth with a convenient expository monologue, which seems to be your standard of evidence.
The elderly are not well-favored by COVID-19 and even before COVID-19 were subject to lethal… misunderstandings.
“Op-Ed: How our healthcare system can be deadly to the elderly” – Marcy Cottrell Houle, L.A. Times, Sep. 1, 2015
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0901-houle-elderly-health-20150901-story.html
“Ageism Is Making the Pandemic Worse: The disregard for the elderly that’s woven into American culture is hurting everyone.” – Louise Aronson, The Atlantic, March 28, 2020.
https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2020/03/americas-ageism-crisis-is-helping-the-coronavirus/608905/
Off-Guardian also reported on 12 experts opposing the alt and MSM COVID-19 panic narrative. Their messages are one-offs, never to be repeated amid the flood of pro-panic, pro-sicial control alt and MSM news.
https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/
Off Guardian also notes Italy’s missatribution of COVID-19 deaths, noted in other sources as well.
https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23/italy-only-12-of-covid19-deaths-list-covid19-as-cause/
Off Guardian also notes that Europes overall morbidity rates are unaffected by COVID-19
https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/30/covid19-yet-to-impact-europes-overall-mortality/
Off Guardian seems to do a very good job of questioning power, in the case of COVID-19.
To many, looking at the sources, and not the label Off Guardian, this might suggest COVID-19 is a mass deception op, what I term a hybrid hoax; a real threat, but much exaggerated.
Unfortunately, unlike the taxpayer-funded government class, most people are facing mass unemployment and are not in the best of positions to think clearly, let alone question power.
Your standard of proof, is not well defined except to be selectively high or low as needed to protect the official propaganda narrative.
You reject answers you don’t like for questioning the MSM narrative, even when backed by evidence. The MSM and captured false alt narrative is demonstrably incomplete and biased to COVID-19 panic and justifications of extreme social controls.
You engage in obtuse nitpicking over the exact meaning of my words “COVID-19 spares children”, which is accurate within its context, and does not require 100% no child deaths an more than COVID-19 deadliness to the elderly requires 100% casualties.
The different strains of COVID-19 appeared in so many places at once, some rightly question how this is part of a normal mutation by transmission.
New mutations have also been unusually stable in terms of lethality, when natural selection should favor not killing hosts; this rule isn’t a hard rule, but still, odd.
You also claim: “There’s an implied supposition that epistemology doesn’t matter. That you don’t need to consider the possiblity that you have NOT eliminated all other explanations, or even how you would KNOW if you had.”
However, that same line applies to Occam’s razor, which you mentioned as an example to refute my thinking, to which I presented Sherlock Holmes’ most famous line.
Occam’s Razor is not a true logical fallacy, and simply states, “Entities should not be multiplied without necessity.” Occam was a Franciscan Friar who used the principle of parsimony to “…defend the idea of divine miracles (Wiki, Occam’s razor.)
Just as a modern William of Ockham would have to reject a fair volume of physical science to defend a divine miracle, so you have to reject a fair amount of physical and social science observation and interpretation to deny something’s up and wrong about the COVID-19 narrative.
COVID-19 looks exactly as I describe, a hybrid hoax. Real threat, greatly exaggerated, perhaps the most useful event for our misruling elites since 9/11.
Death on old folks, spares children, which solves a post-Malthusan dilemma posed by some political-economic futurists. Certainly, convenient for some surveillance state and geopolitical factions, who fing their intrusive ambition unopposed in the name of public heatlh. Of course, you don’t believe in all that Deep State heresy challenging the official narrative.
And so-on. Like the pre-scientific theologians of old, you eloquently deny the truth with the divine simplicity of rhetorical nothings of don’t-think denialism.
You aren’t even as advanced as Newton, who also penned a version of Occam’s razor, likely denying himself the discovery of relativity a hundred years early.
A.T., I have not accused you of belligerence, but you are now being belligerent. You use words like “sneering” and compare me to a “pre-scientific theologian”, not seeing the irony that there’s no point in recorded history when there was no science. You can call that nitpicking if you like.
Because there’s just you and me in this conversation, you are free to ignore everything I say, even when I was trying to help you by suggesting you come up with a better way of expressing your ideas. (Your “hybrid hoax” phrase, much as you love it, is ponderous and meaningless without an explanation). Where is this straw man argument I am supposed to have made? Why do you not acknowledge that if two people can listen to a recording and come away from it with different interpretations, then it’s not irrefutable evidence of something you’ve already decided is a fact? Stringing together completely unrelated incidents and tying them together the way you do is taking 2 and 2 and coming up with 5.
I can’t accuse you of “inaccuracy”. Things are either wrong, right, or unrpoven for our purposes. You dont know the difference between right and unproven. To you everything is wrong or right. That’s an intellectual deficiency. It’s also a hallmark of those theologians you compare me to. By the way, I’m done sugar coating things for you since you stooped to ad hominems.
“Your standard of proof, is not well defined except to be selectively high or low as needed to protect the official propaganda narrative.” Get over yourself. YOUR standard of proof doesn’t even exist. You are not the critical thinker you believe yourself to be. Basically, everything that you disagree with is “government narrative” and everything that comes from Off-Guardian and GlobalResearch.ca must be the real truth. I’m sorry I tried to engage you. I overestimated you. Like this point:
“I’m sure many CBC listeners will be familiar with your patronizing tone of voice, backed with… well, nothing of substance.” Excuse me? What? I have not one f–ing clue what you’re on about now. You follow this ad homnem up with another Off-Guardian link, as if that, somehow, means something. Yes, anyone can look at a bunch of unrelated incidents and “come to their own conclusions”, except most people won’t come to the same conclusions as you, not because they’re not thinking but because they are not paranoid.
There’s really no point to arguing with you. One minute it’s a hybrid hoax, the next minute it’s a bioweapon. Then it’s the hybrid hoax again.
You still don’t realize that the onus is actually on you to provide evidence. Actual evidence.
I did not say Occam’s razor is a logical fallacy. The Holmes quote is the logical fallacy. Here’s an example of Occam’s razor applied to your theory.
Covid 19 is being used to come up with geronticide. It’s a massive international conspiracy, even in Canada. Evidence. Seniors are sometimes abused in care homes in Canada priror to the outbreak. Nasty.
Razor 1. Do all countries have ageing populations? No. So, not all countries have an economic need to get rid of their excess populations of seniors? No. So it’s not literally every country then? No. Which ones then? … What’s the evidence? “Ageism happens.” I see. That’s a policy? No, it’s an attitude of the younger generations. And they’re the ones who run government right? …. No, as a matter of fact, the US is run by a bunch of very old white men, for the most part, the very people most at risk of the virus… So, the old white men want to clear the board of… other old white men? Yes. How? Are they issuing DNR orders from the WH? Well, not as such. It’s subtle. Why would doctors and caregivers jeopardize their careers and risk jail time for something that’s going to happen anyway (old people all die anyway)? Because… Malthus?
Razor 2. Why do they need Covid 19 to cover it up if it’s already going on? They don’t but it’s a supreme opportunity to do something they wanted to do all along. Right. Republicans and Democrats wanted to do this. How does it actually help anyone? How does an economic shutdown and corporate bailout help them out exactly in relation to senecide? I can see the one what with both parties being in the pockets of coroporate donors, but surely that’s a much bigger factor in their political calculus then offing a bunch of seniors? How can they possibly benefit from this as politicians or health professionals? Well, no, it’s not a personal thing, it’s to… to… make room. Because the country is crowded? No… Because they’re a drain on society, more so than homeless, drug users, the chronically unemployed… See, my understanding is people in these homes pay to be there, you know? So whats the point? …Um…
We’re done. I am, anyway. Moving on…
Good grief; you debate like the internet doesn’t exist and people don’t back-check what I say and what you say – which is mostly fluff rhetorical arguments backed with no facts that encourage people not to think.
Razor 1: I’ve addressed agism and gerontocide; you keep pretending it doesn’t happen despite evidence from Italy, Spain, Canada, and the United States.
Razor 2: COVID-19 conveniently allows another vector for the aged to be quietly killed off. Most senior homes are cut off from visitors due to COVID-19, meaning those with the most stake in their care, family, can’t oversee things like proper hydration.
First you try to expand debate beyond challenging that its a hybrid hoax, then you try and limit it again to quibbling over geronticide, which is happening.
Nonetheless intelligent pushback is finally happening. Hopefully the medical police state’s days are numbered and the COVID-19 hybrid hoax will be called out.
“Coronavirus COVID-19: Public Health Apocalypse or Panic and Anti-American?” – By Martin Dubravec, MD March 30, 2020.
https://aapsonline.org/coronavirus-covid-19-public-health-apocalypse-or-anti-american/?fbclid=IwAR0X2YGjgSJKmVumHA0wVdfN58hqqlwX2Y9max1XTXWPaoIDxKBx_jX6JyM
“We did not need to panic over COVID-19. We did no need to give up our rights and shut down the economy over COVID-19.”
It’s not too late to seize them back. But it might get ugly. Politicians HATE being told “no,” especially when they’re on a binge.
Medical police statism came so easily. There’s no significant pushback tangible. Yet.
Trump wanted to relax restrictions by Easter (Ap. 12). Now they are to be extended to April 30.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-easter/trump-says-extending-coronavirus-guidelines-past-easter-to-april-30-idUKKBN21G0YS
Doc. Fauci is on a roll, saying the U.S. should be prepared for COVID-19 to become cyclical seasonal disease.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fauci-says-us-needs-to-be-prepared-for-coronavirus-to-be-cyclical/ar-BB11I0s1
Most people will by then may be too dependent on government handouts to resist.
Of course, many are too dependent on big government now. And the government, dependent of Big Banks over the taxpayer to pay for everything.
The virus almost certainly WILL become a cyclical seasonal disease — once its weaker mutations have crowded the stronger ones out. Diseases that tend to kill their hosts aren’t nearly as successful at spreading themselves (and thus surviving) as diseases that tend to mildly inconvenience their hosts (like COVID-19’s coronavirus siblings, the “common colds”). This thing will probably end up as an endemic survivor of the sniffles variety.
“Trump wanted to relax restrictions”
There aren’t any “restrictions” for Trump to “relax.” At the personal level within the United States, all the feds have to offer is advice. It’s the states and localities doing actual restrictions.
Blue and Red are divided on degree of medical police statism by state and by city. Blue cities in Red states are all for medical police statism.
No-one really breaking ranks with the panic, though.
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-pandemic-florida-spring-break-problem-republican-democrat-differences-2020-3
https://www.thestate.com/news/coronavirus/article241662566.html
That is assuming the US can be considered a part of humanity 🙂
COVID-19 is obviously a hybrid hoax (real virus, greatly exaggerated threat) if the U.S. figures it can keep up a good show of business as usual.
The qualitative damage to the U.S. economy will be significant, however.
A new Oxford study hypothesizes — obviously with more detail, evidence, and of course weight — something I’ve been trying to tell people for weeks: That the virus has been around, and in community spread, for much longer than the OMG I CAN DRAW A HOCKEY STICK OMG EVERYONE PANIC WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE crowd believes.
Oh, and this study just now comes out? How convenient. [And from Dropbox again, the great disseminator of unproved studies like how n-Cov had HIV insertions.]
Just in time to save the economy for the already wealthy and explain why the West needn’t be put through the wringer like the East.
Those early panic studies were such a staged waste of resources. All the wasted effort to deceive that could have gone into real preparation; its not like seasonal colds and flus didn’t kill.
Done properly, (assuming COVID-19 was a natural outbreak, but even not) we could have developed a good picture of upper respiratory illness in local and world populations, tracking COVID-19 and other URIs calmly with no panic as they spread and were treated.
The Shadow Statists were too focused on fooling people and cashing in on disaster capitalism to do good science. Its amazing no-one noticed the panic hucksters’ gleaming snicker in the eyes.
(I wasn’t impressed by Martensen’s inaccurate R0 video).
The great part of sitting back, calling the pandemic a hoax is this…if it goes down bad…noone will be on this site saying..”see, told you it was real bad, you were wrong”
North America is all but reduced to medical police states, millions are tossed out of work into instant poverty, and things haven’t gone down bad???
I’m concerned with telling the truth as I see and understand it, not winning a popularity contest.
Most of the COVID-19 panic promoters fight like debating trolls who just can’t be wrong ever as their privileged entitlement.
Thousands have already died of the seasonal colds and flus; their lives weren’t worth national concern?
You are familiar with the history of epidemics ? Not 20 years, but, a thousand.
Enough to be know epidemics can be gamed like any other disaster.
Once the pattern of disaster and recovery is established, the opportunistic need only look for telltale carpetbagging opportunities.
“COLUMN-Coronavirus likely to have severe but short-lived economic impact: Kemp” – John Kemp, Reuters, Fe. 21, 2020.
https://www.reuters.com/article/china-health-economy-kemp-idUSL8N2AK5YN
During the bubonic plague, legend has it a band of thieves robbed the dead with impunity. When caught, they divulged their secret, Thieves Oil, a concoction of herbs with many ancient and modern recipes.
The point being, not that thieves oil works, but that people exploited disasters. Even epidemics, and knew to exploit the victims, especially the panicky and fearful.
Its obviously more advantageous if the epidemic isn’t all that serious, that the herd may be spooked into dropping their wealth and rights but the real cleanup not be a burden.
Do you have an argument beyond just the rhetorical ad hominem?
How familiar are YOU with the history of epidemics?
Particularly, the efficacy or lack thereof, of mass quarantines/”lockdowns” in reducing the spread of disease?
I’d say the jury is still very much out on how much of the idiotic authoritarian response to COVID-19 is just normal panic and how much of it is intentional exploitation of crisis.
All I know is one should never waste a good crisis 🙁
And the great part of pretending that the data points to worse outcomes than it does is that when those outcomes can’t transpire, you can pretend you saved the day.
True, I don’t have the ability to track the movement of every virus critter, do you ?
A new Oxford study hypothesizes — obviously with more detail, evidence, and of course weight — something I’ve been trying to tell people for weeks: That the virus has been around, and in community spread, for much longer than the OMG I CAN DRAW A HOCKEY STICK OMG EVERYONE PANIC WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE crowd believes.
I’m all for that damage if it keeps our boys/girls in uniform at home.
I like what True Sense wrote in regards to absence in Pompeos , and I will add all US political and military establishment of not understanding how Eastern minds work .
Within US State there are hundreds of people who hold positions as experts and thousands holding University Chairs and Proffessor ranking, most who have never been anywhere near those who live with Eastern Philosophical thought
Western Civilization, Eastern Civilization, those are the two forces, and the glue that holds each together is far weaker, far more.brutish and materialistic in Western, as Western gave up internal for material , and those cultural roots have never had a cohesiveness except greed and exploitation.
Take forms of government Easter has centuries of “Dynastic Rule” and no matter Western attempts to draw border lines to conform to their ideas of strong central government the people were too culturally ingrained, US not defeating so called dysfunctional States such as Somalia, Afghanistan , Iraq and Syria , all because of not understanding the people.
What they cannot understand they destroy!
Such a culture seperated family, schools do not educate they train and indoctrinate conformity to system, and there is no win win philosophy built into our political financial systems only upon one upping another, and domination of others.
UNIVERSITY COURSES: Rely upon works of past western writers, writers who were influenced by political financial interest, not on first hand.long term immersion in those Eastern cultures.
Disinformation built upon disinformation by those who believed Western Technology, includes military weapons and prowess of arms over less technologicly advanced cultures they accepted as proof their theories were right.
Politics is just as viscious on University Campus as in Government and if you want to advance or gain and keep tenure you write to conform, and in years lately the HOP political organizations have largely convinced science is less valuable than faith, faith as in religious, and faith as in Statism and those in it.
Enough general bs, but unless peoples wake up and recognize we are in midst of a clash of civilizations, the Western, US is the predominate western civilization, and is largely run by pschopaths and sociopathssnwhose roots are barbaric in nature, recognized no nobility of the individusl, actually dislikes those they rule, we are on path of mass extinction.
When a society lives by illusion rational people have two choices, close down ones mind and conform, or else search out other rational minds and keep ones sanity.
Many are awakening to fact that all the promises as to enriching and enlightening society in our Western world is and has been built upon lies., leaving doubts that nag on our thoughts, something is not right.
“East is East and West is West, and near the twain shall meet”; and that philosophical dogma is from Western civilization.
Yet the U.S. does win those wars (initially), and in successful at colour revolutions.
Hong Kong, for example, is in popular rebellion against China.
People forget, the brain trust behind the U.S. and West, is not out in the public. The generals and think tank experts are polished messengers and social influencers whose messages and policies are pre-approved for public consumption.
Hong Kong is in rebellion against China only because it is being egged on by the CIA. Just like Poland was against their own government BEFORE they were dumped by the USA in their struggle for freedom.
The HK have real grievances over their political-economic condition. There is serious inequality under the neoliberal economy and a fakey elected representative government. Especially, upward mobility has slowed to a stop.
Hong Kongers just don’t recognize that their own ‘elected’ government made the problems.
Beijing thought they were left with a golden goose, but were really left holding the bag for Western imperialism.
Short term approach to leadership is akin to a mafia capo at a street corner, shaking up merchants, and expanding his territory block by block.
US has taken such short term “leadership” posture since it imagined it won the Cold War.
Taking on weak countries, with the long term expectations of holding them in order to degrade their capabilities and establish 18th century mercantilism over enfeebled entities. Ir cheaper yet, invest in color coded revolutions, and have colony management in bargain.
Short term may have worked for Britain in 18 century. But by the time 1815 rolled around, the incessant warfare plunged the country into debt twice its GDP.
Gobbling up short term nuggets is leading to ruin, without opponents having to move a finger. Hong Kong lives in a fantasy world we encouraged. It has lost many economic opportunities chasing an illusion. And that is what will happen — they can continue self-destruction in the name of memories of British rule when they had no freedom nor economic choices. Sure, that is the choice of this generation. Expecting Western knight on the white horse to colonize them again — they learned that it is not coming. There is no need for China to do a thing.
All colored revolutions eventually backfire, once population learns if its true meaning.
All countries occupied, or colored, bribed or extorted — develop a long term resentment, animosity and even hatred. So what, arrogant globalists claim. We will stay as we are feared, not loved. But not being respected is a downfall.
As our Treasury bonds wobbled , the future without US interference has become a more distinct possibility.
Generals, if take as n example those that managed Iraq and Afghanistan — I would not take comfort in their intellectual ir leadership qualities.
What we need is a major reform. From health care that has shown its ugly side, to economy, financial infrastructure, military and foreign policy. Status quo will not allow changes. The world can see it — and take stock.
Hong Kong is a unique case; a neo-liberal capitalist paradise where the wealth gap is taken for granted.
Ironically, had Hong Kong remained with Britain, they would today be protesting U.K.’s lack of democratic administration of HK.
Democracy was introduced just before the British left, and likely would not have been at all it not for the handover. It wasn’t real deomcracy; it was a sham run by what are ore or less business guilds.
The neoliberal economy remained, and China promised hands-off. China has more or less kept their word, but they are paying to price for not minding their golden goose.
Beijing takes the blame now for every injustice of ‘democratic’ neoliberlism amuck in HK.
Hong Kong is legally part of China, no matter what the USA∕British colonialists wish to believe.
“Like to believe” being the key problem.
That sense of hegemonic privilege dies hard. It probably doesn’t occur to them its wrong to try; the moral compass just isn’t there.
You have said it all
Americans are incapable of understanding eastern cultures because Americanism/Exceptional is so ingrained in them. In that sense, Americans are fundamentalists/extremists/radicals–no different from similar people one can find in other countries/cultures–e.g. intolerant Muslims/Hindus/Buddhists, whatever. The difference is that only a minority of Muslims/Hindus/Buddhists/etc.demonstrate that kind of fundamentalism, a sense of American superiority is a something shared by a very large number of Americans. I wonder if a particular set of circumstances brings to the fore this kind of attitude….
Ignorance isn’t bliss. 75 years of foreign policy in Asia should have taught some lessons, but then ‘stupid’ got into the mix.
Fucking little minds wasting our tax dollars. Thats the “message” I get.
Mon ami, war is just a synonym for insanity.
While health directors all across the nation are begging for severely restricted testing kits — we are “sending message” to China!
We should do what Spain is doing — buy hundreds of millions face masks and gloves, millions of rapid result test kits. Instead our media contributes to epidemic by publishing science deniers — those that say gems like “increased testing will by default increase the number of cases.”
Please no more whining about lack of masks, gloves or test kits — time to stop nonsense and but what we need.
Bianca, you’re absolutely right. We should be doing what Spain’s doing – buying hundreds of millions of face masks and gloves, millions of rapid result test kits.
While health directors all across the US are begging for severely restricted testing kits – we’re insanely “sending a message” to China! How idiotic/suicidal can these warmongers be?
Instead of doing what Spain’s doing, our stupid media contributes to the epidemic by publishing science deniers – those that say gems such as “increased testing will be by default increase the number of cases.”
Really, please, no more whining about lack of masks, gloves or test kits – time to stop the nonsense and get what we need.
Best if a dying power not screw with China.
China send medical teams to Italy to help with the coronavirus outbreak, sending a message to the USA
When we fire missiles it’s always to “send a message”, when others fire missiles, it is usually “ratcheting up the tensions”.
Washington is determined to get America into another shooting war, apparently. But, a war with China will not be the turkey shoot like Iran was. This sabre rattling will cause China to side with Iran even more since both are threatened by Washington and a strong alliance would be in both countries interests. Besides that, China gets some oil and trade from Iran. Seems every day the policies coming out of Washington are more and more irrational and provoking the dragon isn’t good for world peace.
You have a real valid point here, Lily. The warmongers in DC are quite determined to get the US into another shooting war, apparently. However, a war with China won’t be the turkey shoot like Iraq was, This sabre rattling will surely cause China to side with Iran even more since both are threatened by DC and a strong alliance would be in both countries’ interests. In addition, China gets some oil and trade from Iran. It seems every day the policies coming out of DC are more and more irrational, and provoking the dragon surely isn’t good for world peace.
Washington has money for costly warships thousands of miles from our shores, and money for missiles, but not enough money for basic medical supplies at home.
The unmitigated hubris of the USA, which wants to be everywhere in the world telling others what to do while pretending it is “defense”. I see now that aircraft carrier “Theodore Roosevelt” full of 5000 troops and including 5 with COVID-19, is “sending a message to China” by sailing around in the South China Sea!!!! while ignoring the fate of those affected by the novel coronavirus blamed on China.
Little rocket man.