An Israeli military helicopter fired and “hit” attendees of the Nova music festival in southern Israel during the Hamas attack on October 7, Haaretz reported on Saturday, citing a police investigation of the incident.
The report reads: “According to a police source, the investigation also indicates that an IDF combat helicopter that arrived to the scene and fired at terrorists there apparently also hit some festival participants.”
The police investigation also found that it’s unlikely the Hamas fighters who attacked Israel had knowledge that the music festival was taking place and decided to attack it spontaneously. Bolstering the case is the fact that the festival was originally scheduled to take place on Thursday and Friday and was only approved to continue into Saturday, October 7, earlier that week.
The Haaretz report is the latest evidence indicating the Israeli military was responsible for some of the civilian casualties incurred on October 7 and in the fighting that ensued in the days after the initial Hamas attack. A report from The Grayzone compiled evidence from Israeli media, including a report from the newspaper Yedioth Aharanoth that said helicopter pilots had “tremendous difficulty” distinguishing Hamas fighters from Israelis on the ground.
“The Hamas army, it turns out, deliberately made it difficult for the helicopter pilots and the operators of the UAVs,” the Yedioth Aharanoth report said. “It became clear that the invading forces were asked in the last briefings to walk slowly into the settlements and outposts or within them, and under no circumstances to run, in order to make the pilots think they were Israelis.”
The Yedioth Aharanoth report said the pilots decided to fire anyway. “This deception worked for a considerable time, until the Apache pilots realized that they had to skip all the restrictions. It was only around 9:00 am that some of them began to spray the terrorists with the cannons on their own, without authorization from superiors,” the report said.
So the pilots “decided on their own” to “spray” the civilians with “cannon fire.”
Just a little outbreak of collateral murder. Like the famous film.
So, what happened to the chain of command? In the military, order is paramount, otherwise combatants will go off the reservation all of the time.
The chain of command was all in.
Israel is so nice. It killed its own civilians at the Nova music festival to save them from being killed by Hamas.
Probably used them as human shields just like Hamas does in Palestine.
Hollywood is probably working on a movie to document their suffering. …No, not of the families of the dead civilians. To document the suffering of those Israeli pilots who sprayed the civilians “with canon fire.” …No, I’m not talking carpal tunnel or arthritis. It’s suffering from guilt, shame, and embarrassment from all the bullying by their fellow Israelis. Might as well start crying for them already.
That number, 1400-oops-1200, is getting flakier all the time.
Pretty credible reports indicate that at least a quarter of the Israelis killed that day were IDF/police/security personnel. For weeks now, it has been clear that a significant portions were victims of IDF “friendly” fire. Now we hear that those victims include some of the festival attendees we’ve heard so much about.
One Israeli who survived said that the area was lit up by the Apache helicopters. Another survivor spoke of tanks hitting houses. Investigators described tank tracks all over that area.
I suspect the tank fire is the cause of the civilians claimed by Israel as “burned to death”.
Yes, that’s what it sounds like from survivor reports.
Not so concerning the charred hulks of cars. Tanks don’t hit moving targets. Apache copters.
intentionally killed her own people?
Yes, but it’s “HAMAS fault” because, like the “cowardly sneaks” they are, didn’t make themselves obvious targets for the IDF. So the IDF just killed everyone. I guess the IDF expected HAMAS to wear “Shoot Me” signs??
“Difficulty distinguishing”, then “realized that they had to skip all restrictions”.
What a load of BS! “Skipping restrictions” is what Israel does as SOP! Apparently no one wants to discuss the “Hannibal Directive”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive
When you add up the fact that most of the Israelis killed or wounded in the attack were ISRAELI MILITARY, and that probably most of the so-called “civilians” were killed by Israeli helicopter and tank fire, the notion that Hamas is a “terrorist group” starts to fall apart.
In my view, anyone in Israel who supports the Israeli government is a legitimate target. Which is not to say that random civvies should be targeted, since that is operationally stupid. But any and all occupiers are a legitimate target if they get in the way of a resistance’s operation.
This is not the same as “collective punishment” because the occupier, not the resistance, is the only one who can be guilty of that war crime. It also does not apply to 9/11 because again, targeting random civilians is bad operational practice. You target your direct enemies and the people who directly control them. As I’ve often asked, why the hell is Netanyahu still alive? HE is the number one target and all his Zionist buddies.
Looks like the IDF distinguishes between Hamas and Israeli civilians about as well as they distinguish between Hamas and Palestinian civilians. I guess they are consistent if nothing else
So this, on top of the first-hand testimony of an Israeli citizen, taken captive by HAMAS, who stated that “18 civilians were held by 8 HAMAS fighters; when the IDF approached, they opened fire indiscriminately, killing all 8 HAMAS and 18 of the 20 captives”.
I wonder how many of the civilians who were reported burned to death were in fact incinerated by IDF tank fire into buildings housing both HAMAS and captives? At this point, it is difficult to believe pretty much anything published by the Israeli government; thank goodness for Haaretz; at least there is SOME truth getting out.
Too bad we don’t have a single media outlet in the USA with the integrity of Haaretz.
And; I have to love the incredible stupidity of the report from Yedioth Aharanoth; where it’s basically “HAMAS fault” that the IDF killed civilians, because HAMAS didn’t jump up and down and wave flags to help the IDF gunners decide who to shoot. However, the intrepid IDF decided to just shoot everyone, so HAMAS was foiled.
My fucking tax dollars are going to support this clusterfuck???? Why?
Those who were burned to death may have been hit by a hell fire missile.
It’s all possible. I would have suspected HE tank gun fire into the houses, but missiles are possible.
Tanks hit the houses, helicopters blasted people who were out in the open.
Yes, Especially those ones burned to death but surrounded by other dead that were not burned. Super unique Hellfires.
I’m sure you have no clue as to how Hamas killed their victims since Hamas supporters avoid watching those videos.
“Too bad we don’t have a single media outlet in the USA with the integrity of Haaretz.”
It seems bizarre, but the constraints, the de facto censorship, are much tighter in the US than in Israel.
Haaretz is a brave and important voice.
The Hannibal Directive
The Hannibal Directive was a top-secret military order used by the Israeli army.
First devised in 1986 by three senior army commanders, it stipulated measures to be taken when an Israeli soldier was captured during combat. Its purpose was to prevent the enemy from escaping with that soldier, even if it meant endangering the soldier’s life and the lives of civilians in the vicinity.
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/featured-documentaries/2016/10/7/the-hannibal-directive/
What’s Israel’s Hannibal Directive? A former Israeli soldier tells all
“You will open fire without constraints, in order to prevent the abduction,” he said, adding that the use of force is carried out even at the risk of killing a captive soldier.
In addition to firing at the abductors, soldiers can fire at junctions, roads, highways and other pathways opponents may take a kidnapped soldier through, Shaul said.
The Israeli military has denied the interpretation of the directive that allows for the killing of their fellow troops, but Israeli soldiers, including Shaul, have understood it as a license to do just that, as it is preferred to a scenario in which a soldier is taken prisoner.
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/11/3/whats-the-hannibal-directive-a-former-israeli-soldier-tells-all
Same old Israel false flag tactics. They prob knew about hamas’ alleged attack and decided to milk it for as much death as possible so they’d have an excuse to invade.
You know how they said hamas was dressed as IDF? How? I’ll tell you: IDF was dressed as IDF. People went running to IDF only to get shot. It was prob staged entirely by IDF, I wonder how much hamas actually had to do with it.
Hamas does not exists, Its made entirely out of IDF soldiers that cause false flag operations in order to kill Palestinians.
Actually, Palestinians do not exist. What we call Palestinians are really Israeli actors that play a roll in order to give Israel an excuse to steal Palestinian (Israeli actors) land.
I really like the sentence: “They prob knew about hamas’ alleged attack”.
The attack was both known in advance by Israel and also did not really happen.
Thanks man. Glad to see a responsible commenter here to cut the wheat from the chaff. But no, seriously, Gfy. Unlike you, I don’t believe a word of what the IDF says. Maybe they were attacked, maybe they let it happen, maybe they made it happen. Idfc I’m just pointing out they’re somehow worse liars than the American military is. But keep on licking that boot , it looks great on your neck.
What boot?
What are you talking about?
He didn’t understand your post.
I tend to be with you on the last of this: “The attack was both known in advance by Israel and also did not really happen.”
Max Blumenthal broke the story nearly a month ago – Orginal article
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/
Chris Hedges interviewed Max on this in a video posted a couple of days ago:
Thanks for that link; the reporting is excellent.
It isn’t as big a problem as portrayed this all gets put on the HAMAS tab.
How do you figure. What the young men did when they crossed the walls/barriers, in my view, is the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, 2023. Look, they all (1500 bodies recovered) had been born in basically a concentration camp. No jobs (highest unemployment in the world), no hope, despair. Everything magnified by the blockade that was in force (since 2006). Nightly raids by the IDF. Assaults by settlers (protected by IDF). Incursions into the mosque. Crops uprooted. Lack of potable water. Limited electricity, medicines, foods (Israeli scientists calculated the caloric needs of all age groups of Palestinians, let in food that would satisfy starvation +. There is another aspect: with Israel having the most sophisticated spying agency (Mossad), high tech means of detecting, plus, the U.S. having listening posts in Cyprus and other areas, plus satellites, the question I ask, is this: how did Israel “blunder”, not know what was going to happen on 7Oct23???Was it abetted? Consider the facts: Netanyahu is not in jail. The slow ethnic cleansing being conducted is now full bore, using genocide to edge it along. No one is stopping Israel from Nakba II. The attacks gave Israel the opportunity to complete the Final Solution. No, I would put the tab on Israel. 13,000+ dead. 5,500 children dead. Many more thousands injured. No medicines. Hospitals destroyed. Goebbels would be proud.
A singe bomb can take an entire hospital. no need for ground troops. A single tank can flatten an entire school. A single jet can sterilize the entire Gaza strip in a single night.
Israel has more than one bomb, more than one tank and more than one jet.
If Israel’s goal is to do a Nakba II/Genocide/Final solution or whatever, they’re not doing a very good job.
Also, It’s a strange coincidence that Israel started bombing after 1,400 of it’s citizens were killed by Hamas. It’s almost as if they’re retaliating.
It’s interesting if anyone on this site have the slightest misgivings about Hamas choice to start this.
“It’s interesting if anyone on this site have the slightest misgivings about Hamas choice to start this.”
Hamas didn’t start this. Zionist terrorists started what has led to this, more than seven decades ago.
Call it what you want.
Hamas made a choice on Oct 7 and now have to live (and die) with that choice.
Blaming this on a 19 century movement will not get you far.
The fact is that Israel is a state and the Israelis are a nation.
Ignoring this is about as dumb as ignoring the fact that the Palestinians are a nation.
Many Palestinians wish that Israel and all Israelis will disappear.
Many Israelis wish the same for the Palestinians.
Neither wish will come true.
One state solution will cause a civil war (with one nuclear side).
A 2 state solution forcibly enforced by the west is the only viable solution.
“Many Palestinians wish that Israel and all Israelis will disappear.
Many Israelis wish the same for the Palestinians.”
I think you just said the quiet part out loud.
Neither side is keeping this quiet.
Say what you want about Israelis and Palestinians. being quiet is not one of them.
You may be right about the two sides … but only one side has the power to make its demented and murderous ideas come true … and only one side is assisted by us.
What you said above about how Israel is not doing a good job of Nakba 2.0? They are doing a great job, actually: you destroy all means of life in the strip and prevent it from being rebuilt and force the population to leave. This is the plan and it’s being implemented.
Apparently, he forgot about the PR problem if the IDF just wiped out everyone in short order. Not that they wouldn’t if they could get away with it. And they really wouldn’t care if they had to kill the hostages while doing so. Recent revelations make it seem that the IDF is fine with killing hostages in Israel, why wouldn’t they kill them in Gaza?
“Call it what you want.”
What I want is to call it as it is. I did. And I shall continue to do so. Blaming “this” on Zionism is telling the truth. Only the ignorant, the deluded and the lying propagandists — e.g., you — claim otherwise.
Israel has done everything it possibly can to make a two-state solution impossible and it appears to have succeeded. How do you imagine the West enforcing such a solution? And which Western players do you imagine are even willing to try?
“One state solution will cause a civil war (with one nuclear side).”
A “civil war” would be a war between Israeli factions. Palestinians are fighting invaders and occupiers — there’s nothing “civil” about it. I suppose it’s possible that the crazed Zionists would nuke themselves to prevent having to more or less equitably share the land they’ve stolen with the people from whom they’ve seized it. After all, that would be different from blasting its own people to bits with Hellfire missiles and cannon fire only in degree.
Not sure how people who were born in a land can be called invaders.
All you did is call out things you don’t like and blaming Israelis of killing their own because its important for you to support Hamas without the cognitive dissonance of supporting the killing of Israeli children.
What you did not do is offer a solution.
Expelling all Israelis is not a viable solution.
Expelling all Palestinians is equally not viable.
A 2 state is the only realistic solution irregardless of Israeli or Palestinians misgivings.
One State solution with no religion having dominance IF they still want to be called a Western Style Democracy. Arab states don’t claim to be western style democracies and they obviously don’t want to avail themselves to all that “strength thru diversity” that Israel by making the claim they are a western style democracy, must surely want much more religious diversity to avail themselves to all that strength, and to strengthen their genetic diversity.
How about something from the 21rst century?
Netanyahu: “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” Netanyahu told a meeting of his Likud party in 2019. “This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”
“Bezalel Smotrich, leader of Israel’s Religious Zionist Party and the current finance minister: The PA is a liability and Hamas is an asset. On the international playing field in this game of delegitimization, think about for a second, the PA is a liability and Hamas is an asset. It’s a terrorist organization. Nobody will recognize it, nobody will give it status at the ICC [International Criminal Court] and nobody will let them push resolutions at the UN [causing us to] need an American veto,” Smotrich said in 2015.
I skipped your post. I think you need another Covid booster.
It’s weird what unites the far left and the far right: vaccines and JEWS..
Flagged.
Did you miss the part about the 1400 being bullshit? And from an Israeli newspaper?
Can you show an Israeli newspaper making such claim?
Israel have a robust population census and about 98% casualties were identified. each had a name, a family and was identified as either a soldier or a civilian.
Can you show a single proof otherwise?
You said 1400 were killed by Hamas. This article says otherwise. This article is from Haaretz. Haaretz is an Israeli newspaper.
Even the Israeli gov’t has reduced the figure to 1200.
Try to keep up with the latest Zionist bullshit story if you’re going to spread false Zionist propaganda.
https://thehill.com/policy/international/4304838-israeli-death-toll-estimate-down-to-about-1200/
Here’s a US paper. Research the Israeli papers yourself.
Removing Israel from the UN, and not allowing it any rights is way over due..it is no longer a legitimate nation..not now.
It was not legal in 1948. The proper requisites were not in place.
Needs to be some punishment for the (is it 5000?) dead kids. Hard to sweep an elephant of a crime under the rug. But they’ll TRY…!!!!! Of that you can be sure… Some old guy in an IDF uniform popped up on my computer screen Friday or Saturday evening around 10:00 PM saying “Erase the children.” Was busy and didn’t investigate. Anyone else here run into that…???? I tried to find it with Google, but nothing…
“It became clear that the invading forces [of Hamas] were asked in the last
briefings to walk slowly into the settlements and outposts or within
them, and under no circumstances to run, in order to make the pilots
think they were Israelis.”
Well that’s really low-down cheating, isn’t it? Almost like shooting from behind trees and rocks instead of marching out in the open in regimental formation. Or not wearing bright red uniforms. War must be played by the rules, or chaos will ensue. Hamas should be ashamed!
LOL. Reminds me of the Napoleonic wars when they lined up the musketeers and fired at each other.
Israel saw from the beginning it was not a “terrorist raid, but a military operation to take hostages to exchange for those held by Israel. Bibi is using it as an opportunity to wipe out Gaza & West Bank Palestinians and annex the territory.
“An Israeli military helicopter fired and ‘hit’ attendees of the Nova music festival in southern Israel during the Hamas attack…Haaretz reported.”
Officials blame “anti-Israeli” ‘peace’ and ‘love’ posters held by festival goers for “mishap.”
https://media0.giphy.com/media/Ucvfi6Vnig6Ri/giphy-downsized-small.mp4
Here is what happened:
1. Civil war threatens Israel, and Israel wants to crush Gaza, so Bibi et al hatch a plan.
2. They leave a small part of the border weakly guarded and wait until Hamas notices the weak spot.
3. Hamas makes plans to exploit the weak spot for military purposes.
4. A few days before Hamas is set to make a limited military incursion, Egypt warns Israel about it.
5. Next day, Israel causes the festival to be moved next to the weak spot in the border, knowing that Hamas would be coming.
6. Hamas begins its military incursion and is surprised to find a festival is going on between them and their military objective.
7. Israel sends helicopters and blasts everyone, blaming all of the deaths on Hamas.
There were no paragliders. The distant ones ‘seen’ in the video were edited in. A close look at them shows them to be fake paraglider shaped ‘dark clouds’ that do not advance during the video. If festival goers were running, they were probably trying to get away from the helicopter gunfire.
Tom is da bomb, and now this is my favorite snapshot analysis of 10-7.