Updated 10:30am (EDT) Friday, September 30
Russian President Vladimir Putin took the first step to annex four Ukrainian territories by signing documents at a ceremony this morning.
After the signing, the European Union immediately released a statement claiming the annexation was illegal. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said that Kyiv would “accelerate” its application to become a member of NATO.
Russia is moving quickly to absorb the territory it controls in Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, and the breakaway Donbas republics of Donetsk and Luhansk (DPR and LPR) after referendums on joining Russia were held in the regions.
Putin’s signing off on absorbing the territories will be the first step toward formal annexation. Russia’s Constitutional Court will need to verify the decree complies with the law, and it needs to be ratified by Russia’s houses of parliament, the State Duma and the Federation Council.
The Federation Council is expected to discuss the issue on October 4. While there are still more steps that need to be taken, Russia absorbing the territories is almost certain.
The US and its allies have condemned the referendums as shams and said they will not recognize the territories as Russia. But Moscow has made clear that after the annexation, it will consider attacks on the areas as attacks on Russian territory, which could potentially be defended with nuclear weapons if Russia feels that its existence is threatened.
There were expectations in February that Russia might do to Kyev what the US did to Baghdad. When that didn’t happen, Zelensky may have come to believe that it would never happen. But everything has changed this week. If he fails to seek peace now, the consequences will likely be severe.
If putin attacks kyiv like he hasn’t before then Zelensky will reciprocate. Wars aren’t a one way streets.
You mean the US will reciprocate.
No, i meant Ukraine. They are fighting with or without US.
Some people actually fight to defend and protect their nation. Im sure that’s not in your DNA. Your only fight is against anything US from the peanut gallery.
“No, i meant Ukraine. They are fighting with or without US.”
So, unarmed?
“Some people actually fight to defend and protect their nation. Im sure that’s not in your DNA. Your only fight is against anything US from the peanut gallery.”
Yes, Don, and some people have enough sense not to be used as the sacrificial lamb for the superpower on the other side of the world. You just keep wanting more Ukrainians to die and more of their country to be destroyed in order to achieve Biden’s and Austin’s STATED goals. Weaken Russia.
Be honest, how much per comment? Or is it per zingers?
Maybe you’re projecting? Are YOU lgetting paid? You’re quite obsessed with the idea that anyone who disagrees with you is.
You must have been for the Iraqis, the Afghanis, the Libyans, the Syrians, and the Serbians then? If nations had to rely on themselves to fight their own battles, instead of going around the world with beggar’s cups for support, the world would actually be much more peaceful.
China will not recognize Russia’s annexation for Ukrainian territory nor will China recognize the results of the phony referendum conducted by the occupation authorities. I suggest some of the commentators still supporting Darth Vlad’s war of aggression check out the link below to an article in the Global Times about last week’s meeting between the foreign ministers of China and Ukraine on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly. For those who don’t know, the Global Times is the official international newspaper of the CCP.
According to the article, the Chinese minister stressed the need to respect the territorial integrity of all nations as well as the security concerns of all parties to the Ukraine conflict. The article also quoted a Chinese authority who stated that China’s position on territorial integrity in the Ukraine is the same as China’s position on Crimea. China still recognizes Crimea as part of the Ukraine and never recognized the referendum conducted in 2014.
I believe the article represents an attempt by the CCP to send a strong message to Russia regarding the referendums and annexation and to underscore that while China considers Russia an important strategic partner, China nonetheless is neutral in the struggle between Russia and Ukraine and regards self determination and territorial integrity as key elements of its foreign policy.
China sees Russia as an important partner in building a new world order. But China’s relationship with Russia is not as important to China as the principle of territorial integrity and anti-war that China regards as necessary underpinnings for the world order it is working to create.
Here is the link to the Global Times article:
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202209/1275971.shtml
I don’t believe you are reading this in the context of Ukraine pulling out of negotiation when Russia clearly said all they wanted was to give peace a chance;
“… principles of the UN Charter should be observed, that the legitimate security concerns of any country should be taken seriously, and that support should be given to all efforts that are conducive to peacefully resolving the crisis, Wang Wenbin said, adding that he calls on the parties concerned to properly address differences through dialogue and consultation.
“On Wednesday, Wang Yi met with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly, during which Wang said the two sides should deepen strategic cooperation, advance high-quality practical cooperation, take an active part in global governance, work together to meet global challenges, promote a fairer international order, oppose unilateralism and power politics, and uphold justice for developing countries as well as small- and medium-sized countries.
“As permanent members of the UN Security Council and responsible major countries, China and Russia should play their due roles, Wang said.”
There is no way that China will recognize Russian annexation.
Following World War II there was intense struggle among the emerging African nations regarding whether the new nations should accept the borders arbitrarily drawn by the European imperialists or build new nation states based on ethnicity. The Pan Africanis consensus is that changing the colonial boundaries would result in endless warfare. There was no way to draw a boundary line that had all the Fulani and Yoruba on one side and the Ibos on the other. China identifies strongly with the other developing nations of the Bandung. Next to the One China policy, maintaining the independence and territorial of all nations, including small nations, has been a core principle of Chinese foreign policy since the communists took over.
The articles written about Ukraine in Global Times reflect CCP’s dismay by Putin’s reversion to the barbaric practice of expanding territory by conquest. Following World War II the United nations outlawed the acquisition of territory by conquest. That principle has been violated by Israel and Russia.
China values Russia as an ally. But while China recognizes that the US/NATO are ultimately responsible for the war, China does not endorse Russia’s war nor will China recognize annexation by force relying on phony referendums conducted by an occupying power.
Time will tell if you are right. Quite frankly, the pragmatic approach would mean China deals with whoever’s in charge of the Donbass and Crimea and that means Russia, as it stands now. NATO’s bleating isn’t going to change the facts on the ground – only a greatly expanded war effort by Ukraine/NATO will do it.
It’s irrelevant. Believing Crimea is Ukraine is fantasy and ancient history.
“…respect the territorial integrity of all nations as well as the security concerns of all parties to the Ukraine conflict…”
The as well as clause is present, despite being second. The Chinese have also taken the position that Russia’s security concerns have been deliberately sidestepped by the US for well over 15 years.
Does Ukraine have any security concerns?
The eastern Donbas did – with years of “killing their own people”.
I keep asking for citations for this claim …. No one has managed to provide one yet.
There is none and they know it. They just repeat the same Kremlin and Anti US propaganda/narrative.
Thomas has done it many times. Have you even looked?
These deaths occurred after eastern Ukraine decided to not be a part of the US installed regime after their democracy was overthrown in the violent coup, and after the Kiev regime banned the use of the Russian language in eastern Ukraine, but was before the regime banned all opposition political parties and all independent media in Ukraine.
https://www.rferl.org/a/death-toll-up-to-13-000-in-ukraine-conflict-says-un-rights-office/29791647.html
No, that’s not what I’m asking for. People are frequently claiming that Ukraine was killing civilians, even that they were shelling them “daily.” This is an article about total deaths, including military. It also doesn’t indicate which side was responsible for the civilian deaths.
Absent evidence to the contrary, it’s reasonable to suppose that both the Ukrainian regime forces and the separatist forces and their Russian “proxy war” allies were responsible for civilian deaths.
My impression was — and remains — that a majority of people in the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics wanted to secede from Ukraine. I advocated for them being allowed to peaceably do so, and the Ukrainian regime’s insistence on trying to force them to remain under its rule was certainly one of the sparks for the current war.
If Putin had been able to conduct a successful, fast war to secure the LPR, DPR, and a land corridor to Crimea, all that would be going on right now is the same perpetual grumbling.
Once he made the decision to try, that would have been the best outcome. Unfortunately, the Russian military’s disintegration over the last decade or so turned the thing into a fiasco and a quagmire, leaving him 1) in a hole and 2) for various reasons, unable or unwilling to stop digging.
Agreed. I don’t think we will know which side was responsible for most civilian deaths, and it’s likely blame to both sides.
Also, the numbers I have seen indicate that most of them involved land mines, etc., rather than shelling, and were likely unintentional. (Not that that makes them excusable.)
Deaths in the Donbass before Russia Intervened
https://www.rferl.org/a/death-toll-up-to-13-000-in-ukraine-conflict-says-un-rights-office/29791647.html
Russia intervened in 2014.
Again, this does not indicate which side was responsible for civilian casualties. It only indicates the number of them.
Does Donbas have any security concerns along with cuba, the palestians, iran in 1954 democratic leader. Russia helped win ww2 and 26 million dead. Then came Russia let go alot of countries but followed by the clinton team ruling russia thru yetsin and the shock economic program…3 times worst than our depression, people lost their savings…poverty everywhere. Biden was the democrat leader of committee gave approval for iraq war, delighted in libya war and leader knife in behind. There was a coup ukraine 2014 which lead to present right wing dictatorship, 51st state of the united states, no negotiations prior to special operation and sabotage of negotiations after. I’m not hip on the ronald wilson reagen 666? revolution that lead to the reagen bush party vs reagen clinton party controlled by wall street, tech, mic (military), oligarchs…and hardly a democracy but socio/psychopaths in control including the main stream press
“security concerns?”
They blew them off when they refused to keep their separatists inside via the Minsk accords.
They made this choice, as only true ethnic cleansing Nazis would. Now they want us to see them as victims of the inevitable they pulled down on themselves.
China will say what it may to the outside world for consumption, but you can be sure that China and Russia are on the same page.
It’s not going to matter. China will continue to support Russia and vice versa. China is perfectly well aware who the enemy is – it is the US. China may not publicly support the annexation of Ukraine – and I mean all of Ukraine eventually – but they understand it. Anyone who thinks will drive a wedge between China and Russia is delusional.
All that will quickly change when Washington makes plans to interfere in Taiwan (Formosa)
And Washington has de facto annexed the rest.
The US has weaponized law and turned against US citizens. A day of reckoning is very close for war monger progressives and conservatives.
Regime change and dismemberment of the US so it cannot carry on with its brutal piracy is the only way out. Vote tallies in liberated areas of Ukraine clearly illustrate the fate of totalitarian US military empire.
Clearly? Lol. You are funny.
We are a long way away from that, with many dead in between.
For many centuries the region annexed by Russia was controlled by roving gangs of Mongols, Tatars, Zaporoshians, Circassians, Poles, Lithuanians, Don Cossacks and other bandits. The mostly Russian farmers which began to drift into this region during the 17th and 18th centuries needed their protection for which they paid dearly. Czars from Peter to Nicholas II attempted to establish their Russian system of law and order but never fully succeeded. They too had to rely heavily on local cossacks.
Stalin’s “law and order” was horrific but it was the first time in the history of that region that it had a uniform system of law and order.
It is hard for me to define where that region belongs. Ukraine? Geographically perhaps but historically? Hardly.
Putin is a Russian chauvinist who can’t accept that he has lost the war for the hearts and minds of the Ukrainian people. Escalation out of desperation portends disaster. Darth Vlad is leading his country to disaster.
The Russian people don’t want to join Darth Vlad’s dark legions. Tens of thousands of young Russians are swarming across the borders to escape the draft and Darth Vlad’s atavistic regime. Meanwhile the Ukrainians are standing stronger than anyone expected.
Nations are self defined through common land, language, history, culture and most especially by common struggle against adversity. Every day the Ukrainians are proving that they are a nation united in a struggle for survival.
Wars of national resistance have a dynamic that power mongers like Putin, Hitler, Nixon or Trump can’t understand. Even if Darth Vlad uses tactical nukes to destroy the Ukrainian army, Putin’sarmy can’t win. The Russians are foreign invaders and they will never be able to pacify the areas they conquer. Except for Crimea, the peopleof the Ukraine don’t want to be part of Russia and will resist the invasion until the invaders leave.
I would expect nothing less from a Russian leader than to be a “Russian chauvinist”.
As if our own fearless leaders aren’t Amerikkkan chauvinists?
Read the interpretation of Putin’s speech in Consortium News. It contains the words and thoughts of a statesman, rather than the senseless blathering of the current POTUS.
I read Putin’s speech. He made some good points critiquing the Western powers. But Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo had the same verbal critique of the Western imperialists. It was demagoguery. Actions are more important than words. Putin neglected the fact that Russia was an imperial power. For centuries Russia competed with the other European imperialists. Imperial Russia built the largest contiguous empire in the world by conquering other nations, including Ukraine. Putin himself asked to join NATO around 2000 and willingly joined the anti-China G7 until the US and its allies kicked Russia out in 2014. The early Putin’s rhetoric was filled with racist views about the superiority of European civilization and the inferiority of so-called second rate nations.
Putin is a hypocrite and a demagogue. If he cared about deNazification he would start by purging the Wagner Group from his war effort and the other neo-Nazis that have supported his rise to power. Holding four referendums while Ukraine was torn by war and millions of residents of the four occupied regions were in exile is meaningless.
When I call Putin a Russian chauvinist I mean that he has a distorted view of the relationship between Ukraine and Russia. rooted in Russia’s imperialist subjugation of Ukraine and other nations conquered by the Russian empire and ruled by the Soviets.
Kyivan Rus was destroyed by the Mongol invasion around 126 7AD. One
of the spinoffs from Rus was the Grand Duchy of Moscow which became an
imperial empire that eventually became Czarist Russia. In 1547 Peter
the Great proclaimed Russia to be the Third Rome and that he was the
Czar (ie., the Caesar) of “all the Russias” including Ukraine. Imperial
Russia also believed that it was the leader of all the Slavic peoples
and that it had inherited the dominions of the Eastern Roman Empire
which in turn believed it had sovereignty over the dominions of the
Western Roman Empire as well.
The lands that became the Ukraine were repeatedly fought over and conquered by Russians,
Poles, Lithuanians, Tatars, Mongols, Cossacks, Hungarians, Austrians
and Turks. Eventually Russia succeeded in conquering all of Ukraine in
the 17th and 18th centuries. The Czars tried to forcibly assimilate
Ukraine into Russia. It was unsuccessful because the Ukrainians regard
themselves as an independent nation. Nations self determine themselves.
Russian imperialism contended with British imperialism and lost “the Great Game” of the 19th
century over supremacy in India and Eurasia. Like Germany in the 1930’s, Russia is a failed imperialist power that opposes the dominant Western imperialists. But Putin is not seeking liberation. He is seeking imperial dominance.
Nations are self defining. Ukraine has defined itself as a nation. If the Ukrainians saw themselves as Russians oppressed by a Nazi dictatorship, then no amount of material aid could enable a Ukrainian army to survive in the field against the Russian military. Asymmetric wars of national resistance are determined by hearts and minds – by which side has popular support.
Purtin’s escalation is an act of desperation. It will fail. The vast majority of Ukrainian people oppose the Russian invasion. Even if the Russian army destroys the Ukrainian army, the Ukrainian resistance will go underground and the Russian military will be fighting a guerrilla war that Russia cannot win. The antiwar movement in Russia wiull grow and eventually for Putin or his successor to withdraw from the Ukraine.
“if Russia feels that is existence is threatened”
Finally, the right caveat, although the report still fails to point out that, short of Ukraine getting nukes or the US/NATO using nukes in Ukraine, it’s impossible for Ukraine to “threaten Russia’s existence.”
It also fails to point out that it is the US making nuclear threats,. not Russia, even if the US prefers to call them “warnings”, to which Russia is forced to respond, at which point the US calls the Russian warnings “threats”.
Liz Truss, England’s new warmonger, threatened to use nukes too.
Yup. I suspect that was what Putin referenced, in addition to the US “warnings”, when he mentioned high-ranking western officials talking about nukes.
The break up of the Russian state into fragments to be exploited as in Yeltsin days is the real goal of the West. It does not require nukes. It is existential. Russia would fight that with nukes.
Except it’s highly unlikely that it can come to that without the West using nukes. The West can’t beat Russia in conventional war. Russia has already demonstrated that in WWII.
The West did not want to beat Russia in WW2, because the West wanted an excuse to stay ensconced all over Europe and take over management of Europe’s defenses. Same reason Bush never really wanted to take out the Taliban.
Patton wanted to take on Russia, best evidence shows he was assassinated for it. There is a reason MacArthur said “there is no substitute for victory” before he was removed from command. The West wants ongoing continual wars and will betray its own troops to get it.
The irony is that once you accept Russia’s claim that the West is being aggressive by propping up Ukraine (and I think its a correct accusation), then Russia has to admit it got propped up in the exact same way against Germany in WW2.
The point is that Germany was the best military in Europe at the time (and better than the US – war studies after the war decided the average German soldier was 20% better than the average US soldier – and Martyanov constantly rails about US “genius generals” like Patton) and it was defeated by Russia. It is a fact that without Russia defeating the German armies in the east, the US would have had a much harder time defeating Germany in the west. Due to the US industrial capacity, it might have won anyway, but that’s irrelevant to the point – although today the industrialization capacity of Russia appears to exceed the US, as does China. As Martyanov points out constantly, Russia has a “real economy” vs the US “finance economy”. This is one reason the US cannot defeat Russia today in a conventional war.
As for Russia being “propped up” by the West in WWII, just because the West didn’t want to go to war with Russia, that doesn’t make any sense. Russia won because it had the resources to win. They didn’t get those resources from the US, although I have read that the US did assist somewhat. The US helped mostly by diverting some German forces from the east just as Russia diverted German forces from the west. One could argue that neither the US or Russia would have won without such diversion, but I suspect that probably can’t be proven. In any event, it’s not nearly the same as directly propping up Ukraine by direct military assistance.
And none of that addresses the main point which stands: today, the US cannot defeat Russia in a conventional war. It doesn’t have the strategic and operational capability as a result of thirty years of fighting wars against Third World countries, it doesn’t have the industrial capacity, and it doesn’t have comparable weapons quality. That’s aside from the simple fact that the US couldn’t deploy enough forces into Europe to attack Russia before Russia interdicted them. There won’t be a Normandy invasion and there won’t be a 1991 or 2003 US buildup like Iraq – not with Russian subs and (non-nuclear) hypersonic missiles eliminating cargo ports and cargo air fields.
Russia has “escalation dominance” that the US can’t reverse without going nuclear.
That’s not enough. If he looks deep enough, he can find more Russian speakers closer to Kiev.
If the US looks close enough, it’ll find many English Speakers in Saint Petersburg.
Perhaps the US should annex Saint Pete and then protect is as US territory with any means necessary including Nukes.
Hey guys, the war is over. Eastern Ukraine is officially liberated. Putin’s De-Militarization & De-Nazification of Ukraine has been accomplishes, Except for the 215 Azov Neo Nazi soldiers that were released last week.
Annexation Ceremony.
https://youtu.be/yIuN6v_cmNM
The real war is just beginning…!
Tell that to the Russians trapped in Kherson and Lyman. They may want to go home instead.
Breaking News:
Russia just announced it will annex all those areas where young Russian deserters moved into: Georgia, Kazakstan, Armenia, Turkey, and Finland. There are reports that these Russian deserters have been artillery shelled and abused by host nation’s Neo Nazis therefore, Russia will now treat these territories as part of the motherland and will defend it with Nukes if necessary.
Edit: BTW, Dagestan, Russia has rejected the mobilization of their citizens. Chechnya has as well, but Kadyrov won’t say it publicly.
That is a lie, told by warmongers.
Not a lie but sarcasm.
Be gentle with them …. Some people aren’t bright enough to tell the difference.
The direct threat of nuclear war could not have been more clearly made.
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/geopolitical/wests-desperate-play-for-war-blowing-up-the-pipelines/
West’s Desperate Play for War–Blowing Up the Pipelines. Martin Armstrong.
The Climate Change crowd are mass depopulationists, in my opinion.
While all this annexation celebration is taking place, Ukraine is taking Lyman.
I guess Lyman has zero strategic value.
Russia had no choice in this. It was either annex or watch the eastern citizens of Ukraine crushed by Zelensky’s Azov patrons.
We read alot about what EU and US say. What about the rest of the world? Don’t they count? South America? Carribean? African Continent? India? Pakistan? Iraq? Iran? China? Indonesia?
Holy crap. I just had a chance to listen to the whole speech. Holy fearmongering, Batman …. They paint anyone who criticizes anything Russia does as Russophobic, but Putin outright calls us Satanists.
“The dictatorship of the Western elites is directed against all societies, including the peoples of the Western countries themselves. This is a challenge to all. This is a complete denial of humanity, the overthrow of faith and traditional values. Indeed, the suppression of freedom itself has taken on the features of a religion: outright Satanism.”
“Do we really want, here, in our country, in Russia, instead of ‘mum’ and ‘dad’, to have ‘parent number one’, ‘parent number two’, ‘number three’? Have they gone completely insane? Do we really want … it drilled into children in our schools … that there are supposedly genders besides women and men, and [children to be] offered the chance to undergo sex change operations? … We have a different future, our own future.”
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/30/russia-ukraine-war-putins-annexation-speech-what-did-he-say