On Thursday, Gaza’s Health Ministry published a list of 16,506 Palestinian children it has identified who have been killed by the Israeli military in Gaza since October 2023.
The first 27 pages list 917 babies who didn’t make it to their first birthdays. The list also includes 4,365 children killed between the ages of one and five, 6,101 who were between six and 12, and 5,124 who were between 13 and 17 years old.
The full 486-page list includes names, ID numbers, birth dates, ages, and how the children were confirmed killed, whether by the Health Ministry’s own records or through reports from their families.
The US has continued to back Israel’s genocidal war on Gaza despite the mass slaughter of children.
Since the Health Ministry’s list is of children who have been fully identified, it is likely a significant undercount. A study published by The Lancet earlier this year that used a statistical method called capture-recapture analysis estimated that the Health Ministry’s numbers likely under-reported violent deaths by 41%.
The Economist recently extrapolated the data from The Lancet study to get an idea of what the death toll might be now. On May 5, the Health Ministry’s total death toll was 52,615. The Economist report determined that the real toll based on the study was between 77,000 and 109,000.
These figures only include Palestinians killed by Israeli airstrikes, gunfire, or other types of violence and do not take into account indirect deaths caused by the blockade.
The principal cause of all deaths in Gaza is Hamas, who initiated this mess by mass murdering Israelis and rounding up hundred of Israel hostages of all ages. Hamas has had 19 months to lay down their arms and release all the hostages. which would have ended the suffering and chaos immediately.
The principal cause of all deaths in Gaza is Zionism. Israel initiated this mess by mass murdering Palestinian civilians, and rounding up and torturing thousands of hostages of all ages, in violation of international law.
Fascists love to see the endless suffering.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/970937a4a00717dce1b54722e6a6cf1a9bfc39d0db98c37786f177df3156d9c7.png
It is a legal blockade in time of war. You only have to pull up the law of blockade. Egypt controls the Rafah border crossing, which is the primary point of entry and exit for people and goods to and from Gaza that is not controlled by Israel. What's up with that?
Don't blame Israel for what Hamas has caused.
The man in the picture was suffering for a long time from Crohn's disease, which kills approximately 800 Americans every year. It is a chronic inflammatory bowel disease that can affect any part of the digestive tract. It's characterized by inflammation and ulcers in the lining of the digestive tract, causing symptoms like diarrhea, abdominal pain, fatigue, and weight loss, with no known cure. But you will stoop to anything to use as propaganda.
"It is a legal blockade in time of war?"
Bullshit.
UN Special Committee finds Israel’s warfare methods in Gaza consistent with genocide, including use of starvation as weapon of war.
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/un-special-committee-press-release-14nov24/
We all know, this is NOT a war, it is the genocide executed by two nuclear powers against an unarmed nation, a people who live in tents and no air raid shelters, not a minimum of protection.
I guess Hamas should have thought about that before they invited Israel into Gaza on Oct 7th by massacring Israelis and rounding up hundreds of hostage of all ages.
If not for Hamas all the good people of Gaza would today be sleeping in their own beds and eating at their own tables.
Did you read the UN Special Committee on the practices of Hamas????
Gaza under Hamas has always been dependent of humanitarian aid, but have the resources, man hours, fuel, transportation, and expertise to build hundreds of miles of tunnels and military assets, all wasted as Israel has destroyed most of it. Just one more reason to lay down your arms and release all the hostages.— That option has been on the table for 19 months.
UN Special Committee finds Israel’s warfare methods in Gaza consistent with genocide, including use of starvation as weapon of war.
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/un-special-committee-press-release-14nov24/
Suffocation and Isolation
17 Years of Israeli Blockade on Gaza.
https://euromedmonitor.org/en/gaza
Genocide apologists really suck
Only sadistic people can see and know and defend the savage treatment of human beings children included.
There is NO EXCUSE for such evil brutality, no insane reasoning can justify such inhumanity. No Mensch could do that, no animal does, only dehumanized people like Netanyahu, Biden, Trump and their kind could do it.
It is Hamas's actions and methods that have purposely brought this upon Gaza, and could have ended at any time in the last 19 months by simply laying down their arms and releasing all the hostages.
That is insane, you are nuts.
The Israelis could have prevented that by stopping the killing of Palestinian people, and laying down their weapons and show real good will to respect the HUMAN RIGHTS of the Palestinian people, including children.
The Israelis are the invaders, the brutal killers, Hamas are fighting for Palestinian lives and human rights.
They are the children, brothers and sisters of all the people Israelis humiliate and torture and kill regardless of gender and age, the Israelis are baby killers, savages.
And to you they are good, they are savages, nothing good about them.
You must be insane, it takes more than stupidity to post such shameful Bull Shit.
Then stop posting it!
Yeah lets forget Operation Cast Lead, Operation Protective Edge, and all the other pogroms. Give it a rest, only dumb boomers are believing your hasbara.
Have you no decency? How can you make all that up? The Zionists had almost a century to stop it, in fact, they started it.
The savage treatment of the Palestinian people is as inhumane as is possible. How can human beings do that to others just for more land and more wealth?
The Israelis and American ruling elites never showed any kind of humanity for the suffering of the Palestinian people, a young nation with young children. A brutality one can't imagine in the 21st century hundreds of year after the Age of Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, after 2 WW and nuclear bombs, what is wrong with you, are you deranged? To top it all, the evil monsters claim to be the victims.
There were not Israelis in Gaza or the West Bank until after the Six Day War in 1967.
King Hussein of Jordan signed a pact with Egypt on May 30 1967, only days before the war on June 5th, Nasser announced:
The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel…to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical time is here.
What do you expect, the Israelis are making enemies starting with the holocaust of the Palestinians 1948, the Palestinians call it Nakba. Modern history did not start Oct. 7. 2023.
That is one little chapter in history and in what way does it excuse the sadistic, savage Israeli’s genocide and war crimes committed against the Palestinian people, 2/3 women and children? There is NO PALESTINIAN ARMY , HAMAS, a civilian REASISTANCE is all they have, their sons and daughters are fighting for them, THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS.
What would you do if you were in their place???? Would you be a coward and step over their tortured little dead bodies and not fight to protect your little siblings and old parents? Are you a Mensch?
Gaza had a concerningly high infant mortality rate before this war. In 2022, the infant mortality rate in Palestine was 12.3 deaths per 1,000 live births. Source: Statista.
However, this rate can fluctuate, and reports from organizations like UNRWA have indicated that the decline in infant mortality previously seen in Gaza has stalled, with rates remaining around 22.7 per 1,000 live birth
Israeli snipers have an alarmingly high rate of shooting Palestinian children in the head and chest. However, due to forced starvation, the infanticide mortality rate in Gaza increased by 100% after Oct. 7.
Zionist war criminals tortured UNRWA staff to falsely admit links to Hamas.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/47f64091e5e8b9042a7f9f50e2d199c7cb3df86b10e8a74a7315880c20f84f87.jpg
Your math is way off. If without war they have such a high mortality rate, and then you say it has double since the war, where are you getting these numbers? I hope you are not relying on this website. Please provide your primary source.
My math is 100% correct. No food + No water = Death. Simple fact.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/067d9358d93545f9d1a0040615570eb4e18a04e6b40551982b7c48a494a31efe.jpg
And a long and painful death. What a shame of humanity. The evil humans are able to do to others, animals don't do that, they don't torture and kill their own kind for nothing, only humans the lowest animal does it.
It is a shame that Hamas did not know that Israel would respond very aggressively to the massacre of Israelis, the rounding up of hostages of all ages, and the firing of 5000 rockets into Israel's civilian populated areas on Oct 7th.
Hamas could have ended the suffering they have brought upon Gaza at any point in the last 19 months by laying down their arms and releasing all the hostages. The ball has been in Hamas's court since day one.
Hamas knew, or at least expected, that the Israelis would respond very aggressively. That was the whole point of the October 7 attack. It was a last-resort move to ensure that the Palestinian uprising against Hamas in Gaza failed.
That is all on Hamas, as food and water and an end to this conflict ends immediately after Hamas lays down their arms and releases all the hostags.
How ere they able to survive for 19 months with no food or water and basic human necessities?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ef88df7a359f306b98db6a4d1db14a05378df5262cf78ebd8263a964aae6aaee.jpg
Crap. Your blather is nothing but verbal diarrhea.
I compare Netanyahu with Hitler. Hitler found his master. Both are as evil as it gets.
Nice propaganda! I would like to challenge your method of data collection and verification. Give the readers your numbers and primary source.
I would like to challenge you to go and get well and truly fúcked.
‘Not a normal war’: doctors say children have been targeted by Israeli snipers in Gaza. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war
US surgeon claims Israel targets Gaza children: ‘No child gets shot twice by mistake’.https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/t%C3%AAte-%C3%A0-t%C3%AAte/20241029-us-doctor-claims-israeli-snipers-target-child-in-gaza-no-child-gets-shot-twice-by-mistakea
Don't you know of the blockade and the calculated minimum calories was the limit? The wealthy USA has a high maternal and infant mortality rate in peace time and no sanctions, justify that first if you can. Your arrogance is unbelievable. And with all the top of the line weapons, the IDF can't beat Hamas, Hamas are the real heroes. I do feel sorry for the young IDF kids who have been taught to hate and kill, including babies. Their memories will be full of bitter trauma and many will feel guilty.
10.4 per one thousand more decline has stalled? Any info about causes ? What is your point anyway?
Today's episode of peepsqueak's long-running serial, Daddy Drinks Because You Cry. Maybe the illegal war crime of food and other embargos on Gaza for many years prior to The Date World History Started, October 7, the First Time Ever a Bad Thing Happened to a Person, had something to do with that?
Bangalore has a concerningly high infant mortality rate, is that why you took this hasbara job? Is it giving you the ability to afford an indoor flush toilet? Fancy!
BWH must be a new troll.
Or an old one with a new name, because the last was blocked and ignored?
I have a new theory on the resident propagandists, hear me out:
It doesn’t matter how ineffective they are at changing hearts and minds, or how stupid they sound. Their purpose is to make the appearance that people still support Israel and their actions, abhorrent as they are.
Switching names is to present new supporters.
Your reasoning makes sense.
Why do we never hear any mention of the Hamas tunnels under civilian structures. How many of these infants were killed because of the cowards hiding under or behind women and children? And as to the numbers, they are compiled by Hamas, so how much can they really be trusted?
And how much can war criminals be trusted?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/69211ca7633751665690a448900dc3d8da1625ac8853e459a6fb1326311970c4.png
You can’t trust the Hamas war criminals, that’s the point.
You don't even have any evidence of a Hamas war crime. But there is plenty evidence of IDF war crimes, and it stands to reason that every pilot dropping bombs on tents, women and children are BIG TIME WAR CRIMINALS. every PILOT IS A WAR CRIMINAL by EXECUTING ILLEGAL ORDERS. Based on the Nuernberg tribunal.
Netanyahu broke the ceasefire agreement. You can’t believe a word of Israeli hasbara.
Bunkers Under Gaza Hospital Were Built by Israel, Former Israel PM Says. https://truthout.org/articles/bunkers-under-gaza-hospital-were-built-by-israel-former-israel-pm-says/
Officials have claimed that the tunnels are Hamas military command centers as Israeli forces raided al-Shifa hospital.
IDF found a calendar in Arabic, not a Hamas "names list" at hospital. https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/truth-or-fake/20231116-idf-claims-to-find-list-of-hamas-names-but-it-s-the-days-of-the-week-in-arabic
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/705c5bbdf9e34787c094b0d6d5ba5e638030a804ce06a709f0de43e66967a1bc.png
*****
What are your numbers and why should we trust them?
What civilian structures, you Nazi? 92% of houses have been destroyed, Israel bombs tents. Israel has snipers trained on tent 'hospitals.' How does one hide behind a child such that they starve to death?
First you blame Hamas for Israel dropping over 100,000 tons of bombs on 141 square miles with 2.3 million people packed in (largely woman and children) and then you question the numbers. Please give us your estimate of the number of children killed by the equivalent of 7 atomic bombs the US dropped on Japan. I won't even mention the starvation tactics.
And by the way, it takes someone just as sick, if not sicker, to willingly and wantonly kill that many innocents even if what you say about Hamas using human shields IS true.
He/she must be one of "the dumbest and most racist boomers".
Hamas is a real and justifiable resistance, they fight for human rights for themselves and their parents and siblings. There are some tunnels, only the IDF has not been able to produce credible evidence of any, not even below bombed out clinics. War criminals have to tell lies, Hamas has no need to lie, the savage reality alone is unbelievable. The YOUNG IDF killers will pay a high price for what they have become, the hate their elders planted in their hearts will be painful to live with.
Remarkable, survivors of concentration camps oppose the slaughter done by the Zionist monsters.
"Why do we never hear any mention of the Hamas tunnels under civilian structures"?
1/ Israel almost never supports these claims with evidence.
2/ Claims & evidence which have been repeatedly exposed as lies:
a/ Immediately, Israeli claims re its latest "civilian structure" atrocity collapsed. See this:
"Gaza hospital attack: Analysis contradicts Israel's evidence justifying airstrike"
https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-hospital-attack-analysis-contradicts-israels-evidence-justifying-airstrike-13367823
b/ And this: "BBC DEBUNKS Israel Hospital Gold Bunker Lies" (Breaking Points, Youtube, 6 mo ago)
c/ And this: "HOSPITAL STRIKE: NYT Disputes US, Israel Intel (Breaking Points, Youtube, 1 year ago)
d/ And this: "CONFIRMED: IDF, Biden LIED About Hamas Hospital Tunnels" ((Breaking Points, Youtube, 1 year ago)
e/ And this: "Investigation disproves Israel claim of Hamas tunnel under Gaza hospital: The hatch Israel claimed was a Hamas tunnel is only a water reservoir for the hospital." (AlJazeera, 11/8/23)
If Hamas had all the miles of tunnels the Zionists claim they have, Gaza would be one big sink-hole, my common sense tells me.
They use home made firecrackers, not high tech missiles, the Iron Dome is no more than big profits for the MIC. They use IDF duds to produce their weapons in some garage or maybe in basements of bombed out buildings. MHO
“They use home made firecrackers, not high tech missiles”
They claim otherwise. I suspect they know more about what arms they have than you do.
If they had, they would have used them and we would know about it. It does take heave equipment to fire high tech weapons, they just don’t have it, they don’t have beds to sleep in they live in tents, they don’t have an army. They showed holes the firecrackers made in fields, that is it, they just made it over the 24feet high fence, but maybe you have info of destroyed buildings and possible casualties, I don’t. But what I do know for sure is the fact that Hasbara is spreading lies so big and heavy they bent the biggest beams. I bet they can really tell lies, even Pinocchio can’t compete with them.
“If they had, they would have used them and we would know about it.”
For certain meanings of “we.”
Perhaps you could elaborate on that strategically relevant sophisticated missile technology that Hamas possesses that is somehow kept an absolute secret for this subset of all members of the "we" set defined by these certain meanings?
What weapons Hamas claims to have (or at least to have had prior to the latest war, which may have drawn down stockpiles, interrupted component deliveries, etc.) is only an “absolute secret” to the “we” who just make up whatever they want to be true instead of spending two minutes looking for information.
Well, I know they tinker around with some household materials and scrap to produce a few Qassam rockets now and then. Simple steel pipes filled with some fertilizer powder they fire and then cross their fingers hoping against odds it flies off in the general direction they point it at.
Deadly for sure if it happens to drop on your head, and maybe succesful in boosting morale, but hardly militarily significant.
Don't get me wrong, I think they should have actual, really effective missiles, defensive and offensive, artillery, drones and all modern weapons technology to effectively defend themselves against the Israel Nazi's that are determined on their extermination, but this alas is not the case. Their only weapon is their bravery and moral superiority.
Starting in the early 2010s, Hamas and the Iranian regime publicly announced that the latter had transferred the technology to build, and that the former was building, the Fajr-5 multiple rocket launcher system. Those rockets went into actual use in 2012. They are sophisticated missiles with a range of 75 kilometers, delivering 300+ pound warheads. Hamas has also used the Syrian Khaibar-1 (range 100km, warhead 400+ pounds).
Hardly “firecrackers.”
2010 "Hamas and the Iranian regime publicly announced that the latter had transferred the technology to build, and that the former was building, the Fajr-5 multiple rocket launcher system."
They "announced" would you by any chance have credible information when and where any of the weapons were used and how much damage and how many casualties they caused? Did the Israelis retaliate?
Curious minds would like to know.
If I run across any curious minds wanting to know, I’ll go back and find that information.
Work of that sort is wasted on you. As soon as you learn you were completely wrong about something, you take a coffee break, then come back and continue being completely wrong about it.
RWNJ just can’t tolerate a different opinion. They have lost all their marbles already.
***** nice research, thanks.
No wonder the regime wants to stamp out free speech. No level of Hasbara can convince anyone but the dumbest and most racist boomers that this isn't a genocide.
""No wonder the regime wants to stamp out free speech. No level of Hasbara can convince anyone but the…most racist boomers that this isn't a genocide."
Paladin1950, please see my reply to your post in a separate window. abramawicz
Please get off of us "boomers" asses. We don't all support Israel.
He meant "the dumbest and most racist boomers" and there are others besides the boomers who do not have the excuse the dumbest boomers have.
People like Trump and Biden are not boomers, they are my generation. They, of all people, should know better.
Actually, Trump was born in 1946, so he is a Boomer. I am one myself. I think one problem of most Boomers I know have is that they still consume US/Western media and think they are actually getting news, so what they know of the world is very flawed. This might be true of Gen-Xers also. Younger people, not so much.
Also, Biden was born in 1942, so he's too old to be a Boomer.
Trump is “one” of “the dumbest and most racist Boomers” for good measure we throw Biden in too, what difference does a year or two make. Biden and Trump have much in common, I think.
Only the dumbest and most racist of boomers.Which is a lot of the boomers I know, but by no means all or even most!
If you're an American under 60, this accomplishment is the USA's moon landing, the entire society bent to funding a foreign policy to the exclusion of most other things for this specific result.
It is heartbreaking, I have no words.
I do wonder, at times, if lives are valued in the same way?………………..
reply to Paladin1950: "No wonder the regime wants to stamp out free speech. No level of Hasbara can convince anyone but the…most racist boomers that this isn't a genocide."
1/ As reported here by Cook & others, the view of Israel's genocide is changing. (Changing inexcusably late, but let me set that aside for now.)
And as the view of genocide changes, we see two things happening:
On the one hand, compassion and anger and moral horror 'break through' the racist attitudes;
and at same time, both in and beyond Israel, the racist Zionist attitudes and justifications for the genocide are revealed as morally ugly and disgusting.
2/ An article is needed, comparing this 'double shift' to American racism:
To torture and murder an African American, you need more than a hate-steeped Ku Klux Klan mob – you need a greater, enabling racist culture. But as blacks were humanized, and whites joined the Civil Rights movement, the obscenity of white hate-murder was more clearly perceived too.
3/ In Israel, this critical shift has started too: Israeli majorities have long demanded ending Israel's siege for hostages. But in April, growing numbers of women (of course) began carrying pictures of Gazan genocide victims to anti-war rallies. ("Israel’s anti-war protests avoid Gaza. These women are changing that" WP, 4/21)
Of course you omit the fact that it is the Hamas, and thus Palestinian, charter that calls for the elimination of Israel. That would be a major problem for your anti-Israel ranting.
"the Hamas, and thus Palestinian, charter…calls for the elimination of Israel."
factoids like that don't silence antiwar voices anymore – even in Israel – but yea, go find yrself a female israeli antiwar protester holding a pic of a dead Gazan infant to menace – wow, what a man Wash. Post, 4/21:
"Israel’s anti-war protests avoid Gaza. These women are changing that…anger after the ceasefire ended has given them space to talk about the war’s toll on Gaza’s children"
"When Israel broke its ceasefire with Hamas…kill[ing 100's more Gazan] children, a small group of Israeli women [acted]. They printed photos of the victims, gathered Jewish mourning [candles] and joined anti-war protest[s].
"[It marked] a quiet revolution: For months, Israelis had called for an end to the war to bring their hostages home, but the human cost of the conflict in Gaza — where at least 51,000 people have been killed — was largely absent….
"In the past, some…were jeered…even threatened [for drawing] attention at anti-war protests to [Gazan victims]…[Now] when they…sat silently w/the photos, they were met initially with questions and, eventually, support."
Just for you– Gaza had a concerningly high infant mortality rate before this war. In 2022, the infant mortality rate in Palestine was 12.3 deaths per 1,000 live births. Source: Statista.
However, this rate can fluctuate, and reports from organizations like UNRWA have indicated that the decline in infant mortality previously seen in Gaza has stalled, with rates remaining around 22.7 per 1,000 live birth
Of course you don't know a thing about sanctions, blockades against Gaza, starting immediately after the election. So much brutality, sadism, pure evil is unimaginable. What does it take for you to see and recognize so much savage evils as Palestinians suffer. The evil Israelis calculated down to the minimum calories needed to prevent starvation, the limit of food permitted for the people in Gaza.
But ignorance is bliss for people like you.
Let me tell you, next to Netanyahu and his brothers and sisters in the savage slaughter of the Palestinian nation, Hitler pales. Who would have thought this to be possible? And even that is not enough, they can't wait to attack Iran starting another big war. They are not human, they have no soul, no conscience.
I have seen this shift as well and it is heartening.
If I had to speculate it might have to do with the government's starvation strategy. When bombing or shooting, people can always make claims of trying to avoid collateral damage, and indeed from studying Israel's history that was actually the case in most of its 20th century conflicts after the Nakba. So it might be easy to convince people that this is no different.
But starvation is inherently a totally indiscriminate weapon. There is no way to only starve "the terrorists." Even those who believed the government line before, cannot do so any longer.
The first 27 pages list 917 babies who didn’t make it to their first birthdays.
That's more than the total number of Israeli civilians killed on Oct 7th and the IDF killed "many" of them.
We get it Donna, you are trying to relive your youth on this website. I appreciate the music, but you fail miserably to make an academic point by supporting the terrorist organization that brought us to this point with the massacre of Israeli civilians and non-combatants and the rounding up. of hostages of all ages. Hamas had to know it was not going to go well in Gaza, as their support group [Iran] is not going to come riding in to save them. Hamas must lay down their arms if they expect to stop what they have initiated.
Still haven’t looked up the definition of the word “academic,” or realized that this is not an “academic” forum, eh?
For once be clear, the Israelis killed their own people with their very own firepower and the Hannibal rule, Hamas did not do it, the Israelis did and that is the reason why there is no real investigation. Israeli hostages were killed with American made 2000 pound bunker buster bombs along with Palestinian women and children. There are no air raid shelters in Gaza for Palestinian babies and non for hostages. Is that clear? Many hostages were killed by Israelis not Hamas.
Prove me wrong.
piss stain: "We get it Donna-"
And "we get" genocide fangirl piss stain – pissed Israel's been forced to let in a crumb of food, he turns into a pissy little bitch.
When one feels to be a victim of evil act(s), and when one feels that the evil deed(s) has been inflicted by a group, religion,nation etc, and that others who knew,did nothing about it and that would naturally upset that person(s).
Now since we have families, clans,tribes, groups of sets and subsets it does not take a genius to figure out this is the slippery slope of hate,bias,bigotry,victimization etc. It is our greatest error. The never again syndrome that then allows one to feel that anything they do to anyone is justified BECAUSE IT WAS DONE TO THEM.
I think worth mentioning is the few living holocaust survivors are opposed to the holocaust perpetrated by Israeli Zionists.
No matter how this catastrophe ends, the Israelis, their IDF trained children, will also pay a high price. If they have a little shred of conscience left it will catch up with them.
https://electronicintifada.net/content/zionist-zionist-war-crimes/50698?utm_source=EI+readers&utm_campaign=505e0fde51-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_e802a7602d-505e0fde51-299199473
A must read link, thanks a lot.
Electronic Intifada is a great site as well as https://ifamericansknew.org/
you are most welcome
Hamas’ prison break operation shocked most of the Israeli population – though for some Israeli officials, it was clear that the attack was anticipated and expected.
No doubt. Mission accomplished.
bankrolled
"Prison break", a euphemism for a well-planned, government led, barbaric attack, including a return to the "prison" with booty.
I took that from the link that was in the comment that I replied to. Call it whatever you want. It doesn't change the obviousness of Israel letting it happen in order to carry out their ongoing genocide. But I understand you being a troll that you have to comment with pithy bullshit.
"Call it whatever you want"
I called it what it was.
You didn't.
And if you don't own what you post,
you shouldn't call others "trolls".
"Israel letting it happen"
Too simplistic. Someone chose to ignore the warnings. You and I don't know the motives or even who he was.
I didn't call it anything because it doesn't matter what it was. Even if it was a blatant terroristic attack, nothing justifies Israel's response. Which was/is terrorism on steroids.
Too simplistic my ass. It couldn't be more obvious what the motive was after watching an ongoing genocide for the last 19+ months. And that "someone" was the IDF and the Israeli government. No large number of dead and no genocide. They even made sure of the death count by killing "many" of their own citizens.
It all started when he hit me back is not an argument.
You don't know who and you don't know why, but "It couldn't be more obvious". . .
"Genocide" is becoming the new "apartheid" after the old "Christ killers", "well poisoners" etc…
Anti-Semitism changes form but its root is the same old brutish hatred.
And you're a fucking idiot who talks in circles.
"…who talks in circles"
I respond to the same bs in the same way.
Call it "circles" if you like.
Nothing I said was "bs". Israel claims Hamas threatens their very existence and yet they ignored warnings from Egypt and their very own IDF troops about a possible attack. They also failed to give the music festival organizers any kind of a heads up about that possible attack. Their claim that there was an intelligence failure is laughable.
Here we go again.
"They" is unknown to both of us but it's not an amorphous crowd one could call "Israel".
Signs were there, someone chose to ignore them.
Other than that, I think I agree with most of your post here.
Mossad is certainly part of "they". Now tell me you actually believe that attack could have had happened right under the noses of Mossad. That's just impossible for me to believe. They knew when and where two flies were fucking in Gaza.
Is Ronen Bar guilty? Someone above him? Someone below him?
Was it a small Cabal? A large one?
Was it treason? Was it to blame the fiasco on Netanyahu?
It was obvious enough for lowly soldiers to give warnings to IDF headquarters. So, I'd say it runs deep and far. No one can be that oblivious.
"Lowly soldiers" don't usually have access to headquarters, but I accept your point.
OTOH, your conclusion doesn't follow from it.
You can't answer my questions, you confuse the Mossad with IDF, but you think you understand the present ME conflict.
I would imagine Israel has a chain of command. And I would assume soldiers are allowed to go through that chain of command to express their concerns. Plus, it was reported (in Israel's press) that they indeed had reported suspicious activity going on across the border. Whether those soldiers directly reported to the IDF isn't really relevant. And I said Mossad was a "part" of they so yes, I do understand the difference between them and the IDF. And I think my conclusion is based on obvious facts that leave no doubt that Israel (they) let the attack happen. How could they possibly ignore multiple warnings about suspicious activities from a group they claim has one goal, and one goal only, and that is to destroy Israel?
An entry-level worker in a big company will have trouble "expressing his concerns" to the CEO, regardless of how the "chain of command" is managed, but I accepted your point in my previous reply.
Your conclusion is indeed based on obvious facts, but I asked, repeatedly, who and why. "They" is not an answer.
Remember, we got here because you blamed "Israel", not the individuals who ignored multiple warnings.
I agree with the description of Hamas in your last sentence, and I see it as a very important point.
I don't know who. I can only speculate. But the why is obvious. No large-scale attack by Hamas, no ethnic cleansing/genocide by Israel. It would have been just another disproportionate beating otherwise and no chance for a biiiiig land grab.
"I don't know who."
I assume you now understand that "Israel" in your previous post was a misnomer.
"But the why is obvious."
In a previous post I asked:
Was it treason? Was it to blame the fiasco on Netanyahu?
If you can't negate these possibilities without knowing "who", your suggested "why" isn't obvious at all.
You're grasping at straws. The fact that I can't name individuals is irrelevant. Saying Israel is responsible for enabling Hamas' large-scale attack isn't a misnomer any more than saying Israel is responsible for their genocidal response. So, the "why" remains obvious. You know god damned well what I meant.
"You know … what I meant."
What Gaza did, Gaza did, blame them.
But here we go again.
"They" is unknown to both of us but it's not an amorphous crowd one could call "Israel". Signs were there, someone chose to ignore them.
Did I say Hamas was blameless for their attack? Of course I didn't. But Hamas isn't to blame for what Israel CHOSE to do in response. And the last 20 months of an absolute slaughter is completely on them.
You can't really be serious in saying there was one individual responsible for the "intelligence failure" that allowed an attack of that magnitude. Especially given the fact that Israel has been claiming Hamas is a threat to their very existence. But I guess when that is all you got, then you have to stick with it.
"Did I say Hamas was blameless for their attack?"
No, but its barbarism and magnitude are what started
the present conflict and determined the response
and you largely ignore their blame.
"You can't really be serious in saying
there was one individual responsible. . ."
This, after I asked:
"Was it a small Cabal? A large one?"
No, but its barbarism and magnitude are what started
the present conflict and determined the response
and you largely ignore their blame.
It takes a large set of balls to talk about Hamas' barbarism and magnitude after what Israel has done for just short of 20 months now. And NO attack would make Israel's response acceptable. War crimes remain war crimes. Their total disregard for civilian life, including 80 days of a total siege, is unacceptable and would be condemned as terrorism if done by damn near anyone else. Hamas has become irrelevant. Nothing justifies what Israel has done regardless of what any "designated" terrorist group has done. That is what is supposed to separate the "good" guys from the bad. Instead, Israel has put Hamas to shame in the terrorism department. If the roles were reversed, I'd be bitching just as vociferously against Hamas' 20 months of barbarism. But we all know that it wouldn't have gotten even remotely close to where we are now if the roles were reversed.
"It takes a large set of balls to talk about Hamas' barbarism and magnitude"
Not at all, because as I said,
it's what determined the response, which is intended to denazify Gaza and get our hostages back.
"And NO attack would make Israel's response acceptable."
IOW, Israel has no right to fight back.
Try selling that idea to your country.
"total siege"
While the fighting goes on, totally legal. Hamas knew it would happen and prepared for it. Think about it, 80 days without food or supplies. Who would remain alive?
"If the roles were reversed, I'd be bitching just as vociferously"
Did you "bitch vociferously" on Oct. 8, 2023?
Not at all, because as I said,
it's what determined the response, which is intended to denazify Gaza and get our hostages back.
Are you dense? My point was Israel's "barbarism and magnitude" dwarfed Hamas' barbarism and magnitude by leaps and bounds.
IOW, Israel has no right to fight back.
Try selling that idea to your country.
Again, are you dense? Did I say Israel didn't have a right to fight back? Once more, I was alluding to Israel's ongoing genocidal response which under NO circumatsnces id acceptable.
While the fighting goes on, totally legal. Hamas knew it would happen and prepared for it. Think about it, 80 days without food or supplies. Who would remain alive?
Firstly, the fighting has hardly been "totally legal". Even Isreal's die hard supporters have winced from Israel's daily war crimes. Secondly, I don't give a flying fuck about Hamas. My concern has been for the innocent victims. The women, children and elderly are those most affected by Israel's siege and plenty of them are dead or fucked up for life. Israel's complete lack of concern for the innocents has been ongoing since day one. Even their top officials openly state they don't care about the innocent victims. They allowed a tiny aid to trickle in just so they could get their "friends" off their asses.
Did you "bitch vociferously" on Oct. 8, 2023?
No, and I didn't "bitch vociferously" when Israel retaliated. Only when the retaliation took on the look of a vicious slaughter that has morphed into a genocide.
"Did I say Israel didn't have a right to fight back?"
By accepting patently ludicrous falsehoods, yes.
"the fighting has hardly been "totally legal".
The remark was in obvious reference to the siege. I can't vouch for every action of every single soldier but it's no less justified/legal than wars generally are.
"Even Isreal's die hard supporters have winced from Israel's daily war crimes."
Nope. Mostly Muslims, progressives, politicians who play the "Let's you and him fight" game, and some Israelis who hate Netanyahu too much for their own good.
"No, and I didn't…"
IOW,
"If the roles were reversed…" was bs.
By accepting patently ludicrous falsehoods, yes.
Please elaborate as to which "ludicrous falsehoods" I have accepted. Are you another one of those who just can't accept the numbers?
The remark was in obvious reference to the siege. I can't vouch for every action of every single soldier but it's no less justified/legal than wars generally are.
Other than the war crimes being a daily occurrencethat is washed away with the obligatory "it was a Hamas command and control center" then sure. So, when you blow up a house and kill the father and his 9 children, you always have that built in excuse. But those are just daily normal occurrences in most wars, right?
Nope. Mostly Muslims, progressives, politicians who play the "Let's you and him fight" game, and some Israelis who hate Netanyahu too much for their own good.
For starters:
Matt Miller Admits Israel Has Committed War Crimes in Gaza
Did you miss that?And why do you think the Israeli's let ANY aid get in? I'll answer for you. It was because Israel's "friends" were starting to speak out against Israel atrocities because they just could no longer ignore the blatant disregard for innocent human life.
IOW,
"If the roles were reversed…" was bs.
You didn't understand that I was talking about if Hamas had done a genocidal response to an Israeli attack? Sure you did. But I must be an antisemite, am I right?
"Please elaborate as to which "ludicrous falsehoods" I have accepted."
Israel's "barbarism and magnitude" dwarfed Hamas' barbarism and magnitude by leaps and bounds.
…total siege, is unacceptable…
Their total disregard for civilian life
war crimes being a daily occurrence
"Matt Miller"
Who is he?
What does he know?
Those are falsehoods? I could give you 20 months of headlines like these:
Gaza Health Ministry Publishes Names of 16,506 Children Killed by Israeli Military Since October 2023
Israel Kills 27 in New Attack Near Gaza Aid Site
Israel Kills 32 Starving Palestinians in Latest US Aid Point 'Massacre'
Israel Orders Closure of Al-Awda Hospital, a 'Lifeline' in North Gaza
Dr. Hamdi Al-Najjar Dies After Airstrike That Killed His 9 Children
Chaos in Gaza as Starving Palestinians Seek Israeli-US Aid
Call To 'Burn Gaza' Doesn't Violate Knesset Ethics
Israeli Use of Human Shields in Gaza Was Systematic
Israeli Strikes Hit Gaza School, At Least 36 Killed
Israel Bombs Gaza Aid Guards as They Are Attacked by Looters
Miscarriages in Gaza Soar as Israel Expands War and Siege
Netanyahu: Ethnic Cleansing Needed To End War
Former MK: 'Every Baby in Gaza Is an Enemy'
And that's just two weeks' worth. I didn't go back to when Israel killed those 15 medical workers and buried them in shallow graves. And like I said, I could give you 20 months of those but what would be the point.
"Israel Kills 32 Starving Palestinians in Latest US Aid Point 'Massacre'"
Never happened.
You should know that by now.
But you did us a favor by showing how Hamas propaganda works.
"Miscarriages in Gaza Soar as Israel Expands War and Siege"
War is hell,
is that your point?
"Schools, hospitals"
Immunity lost because of military use.
"Ethnic Cleansing Needed To End War"
It may be the only way to prevent a replay of Oct.7. After WW2, it happened to Germany and Japan too.
====
The events you mentioned need details.
====
Somebody said something,
doesn't count.
Never happened.
You should know that by now.
But you did us a favor by showing how Hamas propaganda works.
Says who, Israel? Is this like those 15 medical workers they murdered and then denied until the video made them admit it was "professional failures"? But sure, it must be Hamas propaganda.
War is hell,
is that your point?
No, my point was Israel's wanton barbaric measures of withholding aid caused these women to miscarry. But yes, genocide IS hell.
Immunity lost because of military use.
You did us a favor showing how REAL propaganda works.
It may be the only way to prevent a replay of Oct.7.
Still a war crime. It's humorous how you tools think Israel can just ignore international law just because, well they're Israel. I guess "never again" only applied to them
The events you mentioned need details.
There are 20 months of such events. Just search the archives and READ them and you will get all of the details. And once the evidence is so undeniably overwhelming (including grotesque photos) you can invoke "Oct 7th once more. It's Hamas fault Israel willingly and wantonly kills anything that moves. And sometimes they even kill fellow Israelis.
Somebody said something,
doesn't count.
Right. The pile of rubble that IS Gaza is just a figment of my imagination.
Says who, Israel?
"The pile of rubble…"
IED's in every other building.
By definition, they're all
military and illegal.
"Still a war crime. It's humorous how you tools think Israel can just ignore international law just because, well they're Israel."
Did your country participate in WW2?
Yes, Israel.
Israel blamed Hamas fighters for shooting Palestinian civilians, saying they were trying to stop the crowds from taking food boxes. the Israeli military dished up a video, taken by one of its drones, as supposed proof.
The BBC should never have taken Israel’s disinformation seriously – not least because Israeli claims are always shown to be lies when subjected to any serious independent scrutiny. The default position should be that Israel is lying until it can demonstrate convincingly that it is not.
Doctors treating the dead and wounded immediately pointed out that their injuries were consistent with Israeli gunfire. The victims had single shots to the head or chest, in line with targeting by Israeli snipers. Others suffered shrapnel wounds from tank shells. Hamas has no tanks.
Now expert analysis of the video itself – paradoxically confirmed by BBC Verify – shows that the footage was filmed in Khan Younis, far from Rafah, where the Palestinians aid seekers were killed. It is also apparent from the shadows that the video was taken
in the evening, not in the morning when the Palestinians in Rafah were shot.
https://original.antiwar.com/cook/2025/06/03/israel-is-fully-integrating-its-gaza-food-aid-hubs-into-the-genocide/
So, the only thing fake is the bullshit video.
IED's in every other building.
By definition, they're all
military and illegal.
Was that before or after the 100,000 tons of bombs were dropped. And is that based on what Israel says? Be nice if they let some independent press inside Gaza. Gee, I wonder why they don't. /s
Did your country participate in WW2?
I don't get your point. Or are you saying since the US committed war crimes in WW2, that means Israel can do the same. Good one. No denying they are committing war crimes, it's just that hey, others did too.
If Jonathan Cook says Israel did it,
it's safe to assume they didn't.
I asked about WW2 because I believe you have no idea what war or military service is like.
Almost 20% of casualties may be from friendly fire. It's a tragedy, not a war crime.
If Jonathan Cook says Israel did it,
it's safe to assume they didn't.
Right. Just another antisemite. /s
I asked about WW2 because I believe you have no idea what war or military service is like.
Almost 20% of casualties may be from friendly fire. It's a tragedy, not a war crime.
I know what military service is like because I did 3 years in the Army. But that's completely irrelevant. You don't have to be in war or have done time in the military to see what is before your very eyes. The only "friendly fire" in the ongoing slaughter is the IDF killing fellow Israelis. The butchering you're thinking of is called collateral damage. And that term wouldn't be an accurate description of what Israel has done given their rules of engagement which amount to kill anything that moves. To them there is no such thing as collateral damage since they have openly stated that everyone in Gaza is the enemy and they all deserve to die.
“The only ‘friendly fire’ in the ongoing slaughter is the IDF killing fellow Israelis.”
Nah — Hamas still makes time to attack “its own people” when they dare protest its misrule.
But that wouldn't be considered "friendly fire" in the same way as it happens in a
wargenocide."Just another antisemite."
As the saying goes:
He hates Jews more than he should.
"The only "friendly fire … is the IDF killing fellow Israelis."
But it shows what happens in "the fog of war". Collateral damage is something else.
The sadistic barbarity came dressed in IDF uniforms and a war, true genocide, against unarmed civilians, women and children, including babies. The heroes from the IDF are about as evil as it gets, 2000 pound bombs to kill unarmed civilians mostly women and children, and starvation and much more, yes Netanyahu, Biden and Trump and their accomplices can be proud of their accomplishment.
Despicable evil monsters.
If 16,500 Israeli children were brutally murdered/slaughtered, they’d set the world on fire!…..Does the word Holocaust ring a bell?!…
Unconditional surrender.
Release of all hostages.
End of story.
While the Israeli regime has proven willing to release more hostages than it gets in return for Hamas’s, it also HAS a lot more hostages and the total number doesn’t seem to be up for release.
1) Irrelevant, even if it were true.
2) Israel doesn't have hostages.
Yes, Israel has hostages. Prisoners held without charge or trial, and used to swap for prisoners someone else is holding, are hostages. Period.
Read more.
You must be from Mars. The Zionists hold thousands of Palestinians hostage starting YEARS ago, including women and children and the torture of hostages is well known fact around the world. Gang sodomizing, and raping prisoners/hostages is normal. There is credible evidence supporting it.
And you don't know it?
There are allegations about Hamas, but no credible evidence.
“There are allegations about Hamas, but no credible evidence.”
So, Hamas offering to free hostages and doing so in trades is not “credible evidence” that Hamas holds hostages?
My point was about torture and other war crimes. It is well known that the Hamas goal was to take hostages in order to get and exchange prisoners/hostages. There is no evidence that Hamas tortured any hostage.
The UN Special Rapporteur on Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment says otherwise. While that’s not dispositve, I suspect she’s better informed on the subject than you are.
Thomas, what I could find was the report of the rapporteurs, they reported "allegations" but could not find victims, witnesses, or forensic evidence. That does not mean no crimes were committed, but there is no evidence of any open or organized Hamas war crimes.
"well known fact"
Before Ben Gvir got the job, terrorist prisoners were pampered.
As a foreigner, dependant on anti-Israel news sources, you won't know that.
Are your sources objective? Ben Gvir is current and very public; and Palestinian prisoners were never pampered.
Read more.
These children weren’t “killed”………..
They were murdered!……………………..
To Paladin1950: Re the US right and Israel's "starvation strategy"
1/ Yes, clearly, late-coming condemnation of Israel – by western governments and press – is mainly because of Israel's declared "starvation strategy."
2/ Deliberately starving to death women and children? As you wrote – for most people, no justification and no amount of propaganda can stop that act – or the rationales for that act – from being seen as morally abhorrent.
3/ Israeli statements reveal this – see right-wing Sen's who warned the explicit "starvation strategy" makes it politically hard for them to 'support Israel.'
4/ Despite which, there remains a racist and openly genocidal right-wing core (piss stain, obviously). Though they – and the Zionist justifications for genocide they mouth – are increasingly, seen as morally abhorrent too…
5/ …Although note: seen as abhorrent even though – as racist Republicans – forcing the poor to go hungry fits well with their greater domestic politics – especially if they think Americans facing hunger are non-white:
"When it comes to America’s working-poor, the Republican Party has demonstrated its willingness to expose them to more hardship and misery."
"The Republican War On the Poor, Globalist, 2013
6/ So upshot? Elimination of 'the race problem'? Starvation as political weapon? One more way – for the racist US right especially – that Israel is the American dream.
For "racist Republicans – [starving Gazans] fits well with their… domestic politics – especially if they think Americans facing hunger are non-white."
Again: the cruelty around domestic food issues – which disproportionately affect women and children – is a defining feature of the right:
"Nearly Half of US Kids—34 Million—Rely on Food, Health Programs Targeted by GOP
"Children and families across America are at risk of losing affordable health coverage and access to healthy meals to pay for a massive tax cut for billionaires and big corporations."
https://www.commondreams.org/news/republican-cuts-to-medicaid-and-snap
Indeed I have often wondered how much Republican support for Israel was due to them secretly seeing Israel as a continuation of the manifest density lore: "a band of plucky white people sets out to tame a wild land. Beset by dark skinned savages they none the less persevere and being civilization to all corners of the territory."
I had not thought about how their war on Palestinian might fit into a greater war on the poor here in America though, thanks.
Though a few Republicans still rightly point out that there are better ways to spend American tax dollars than commiting genocide https://newrepublic.com/post/187466/maga-republican-thomas-massie-us-arms-sales-israel
And thousands of Gazans face starvation….
Children are suffering and dying!!! Where is the world ???!
Where is Hamas ???!
Where are the hostages ???!
IDF bombs killed the hostages with all the Palestinian women and children and old men, just not the Hamas.
some 19 months and the mighty USA and Israel, two nuclear powers can't defeat Hamas.
Why don't the Zionists stop the slaughter, have they no decency, no basic common sense?
Who threatens the USA if not the insane oligarch Zionists in DC ?
https://www.presstv.ir/Live
Great coverage today and do not forget! They are doing most in English!
Palestinians are going thru terrible tumult!…..Iran is losing some patience… They are using diplomacy and so forth to convey their positions….!
oh the israelites song
https://www.presstv.ir/Live
Starving and massacred….
”I’ve a lovely child and he weeps when he wants me and I come when he calls me because he needs to be fed”… djv
https://www.presstv.ir/Live
Starving and massacred….