Updated on March 18, 2025, at 7:59 am EST
The Israeli military on Tuesday morning began launching large-scale airstrikes on the besieged Gaza Strip, marking the full-scale resumption of Israel’s genocidal war.
Around 1:00 pm Gaza time, Al Jazeera reported that 404 Palestinians had been killed and 562 had been wounded by Israeli strikes on homes and tents sheltering displaced Palestinians across the Strip.
Pictures and videos from Gaza that have surfaced online show there is a large number of child casualties. “Israeli bombardment has returned to Gaza, bringing massacres with it once again,” Al Jazeera reporter Anas al-Sharif wrote on X. “The bodies of children, killed in their sleep, lay scattered in the aftermath.”
The massive attack came about two weeks after Israel imposed a total blockade on aid and all other goods entering Gaza at the end of the first phase of the ceasefire deal. Israel violated the agreement by imposing the blockade, refusing to engage in negotiations on the second phase, and killing Palestinians throughout the truce.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in a statement Tuesday morning that he instructed the Israeli military to escalate in Gaza in response to Hamas rejecting US and Israeli terms for an extended temporary ceasefire. Hamas wanted Israel to stick to the deal it agreed to in January, which would have involved a permanent truce and full Israeli withdrawal.
“Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Israel Katz have instructed the IDF to take strong action against the Hamas terrorist organization in the Gaza Strip,” Netanyahu’s office said. “This follows Hamas’s repeated refusal to release our hostages, as well as its rejection of all of the proposals it has received from US Presidential Envoy Steve Witkoff and from the mediators.”
The statement added that Israel will “from now on, act against Hamas with increasing military strength. The operational plan was presented by the IDF over the weekend and approved by the political leadership.”
Hamas told Reuters that Israel had chosen to end the ceasefire unilaterally and that Israel’s attacks expose the remaining Israeli hostages to an “unknown fate.”
The White House confirmed that President Trump was notified before Israel launched the massive bombing. “The Trump administration and the White House were consulted by the Israelis on their attacks in Gaza tonight,” said White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt.
Leavitt repeated Trump’s threat that “all hell would break loose” in Gaza. Trump previously threatened that the “people of Gaza” would be “dead” if the hostages weren’t immediately freed.
Since President Trump came into office, he has provided a massive amount of military aid to Israel, approving over $12 billion in arms deals and supplying Israel with 2,000-pound bombs. The Trump administration did not pressure Israel to implement the ceasefire deal reached in January.
Truly a sick puppy club. Can't stop mass murdering as it gnaws at their evil souls.
Back to the war. This time Israel now has the full backing of the USA with no guard rails. The USA attack on the Houthis seems coordinated with Israel restarting the war.
"Seems" coordinated?
"This time Israel now has the full backing of the USA with no guard rails."
Apologists for mass child murder enable Trump in the Middle East now, same as they enabled Biden before. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/20dfea54d6931842106fd409357b9e2fb8ba92bdb12c7bc7f64e72b62780727e.png
You accused me of plagiarism, but now you're copying and pasting the screenshot from middleeasteye.net that I posted on this website earlier today. Oh, the irony. LOL!
Israel shatters Gaza ceasefire with at least 413 Palestinians killed in Ramadan massacre. https://www.newarab.com/news/israeli-strikes-kill-least-413-gaza-ramadan-massacre
1/ "You accused me of plagiarism"-
uh…yea…bc you obviously did plagiarize. repeatedly.
2/ "but now you're copying and pasting the screenshot from http://middleeasteye.net that I posted on this website"
that's not plagiarism – posting that upsetting news pic/headline doesn't make it yr intellectual property.
3/ good you admit – now – where you lifted it from
4/ advance thx for sticking to diligent copy/pasting in future – flapping yr whining yap'll just turn off folks to the important message.
You obviously plagiarize, repeatedly, hypocrite.
Joe 'Zionist' Biden was heavily criticized by the progressives in the Democratic Party. Biden's role in the Israel-Hamas ceasefire deal was overshadowed by Trump's dedication to "Getting the job done" for Bibi.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ebffca58882f10d92209aeccc0e27ef1fe6e2a3fed3e45351026e50861dac62e.png https://www.middleeasteye.net/live/gaza-war-hamas-israel-ceasefire-negotiations-doha-resume
"This time Israel now has the full backing of the USA with no guard rails."
Apologists for mass child murder enable Trump in the Middle East now, same as they enabled Biden before. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/20dfea54d6931842106fd409357b9e2fb8ba92bdb12c7bc7f64e72b62780727e.png
Netanyahu and Trump are joined at the hips. Both are corrupt and both are immoral warmongers.
The guard rails the Biden butchers set up were ignored. That's why 70% of the buildings were destroyed and 90% of the people were displaced. There was just a pause so Trump could score some PR points for his
coronationinauguration.Fake Christian Karoline Leavitt cheerfully repeated Trump’s threat that “all hell would break loose” in Gaza.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/50ac98c1fb454c97fc5dd9831ede1da9b8c9f47d2fff5f7836c77f7953f01850.jpg
Many women and children are among more than 200 Palestinians killed, Gaza’s health ministry said.
Hamas said Israel carried out a “treacherous” attack on besieged and defenseless civilians in order to overturn the Gaza ceasefire deal, accusing Israel of “deliberately sabotaging” the ceasefire.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/82dd17a9bf41bcbbb7c3a3f6ec27f99538736edcd7f215b2c076d74e15c763b3.jpg
Kill commies for Christ and Palestinians for peace.
Nothing fake about that bitch. She is just that sick.
What about Miriam Adelson who paid $100 million dollars for genocide?
How does she walk away with no blood on her hands?
I can only comment on one bitch at a time. 😉
So many. But she is at the top of the charts.
I can't disagree with that. She dwarfs Leavitt in the bitch rankings.
Just look at her, purposefully displaying that cross to show the world how superior she and her boss are. They truly believe in their superiority and "might makes right"
Look at Republicans reaction to the genocide.
In 2023, AIPAC's political action committee donated a total of $104,000 to Mike Johnson to push Congress for the approval of the $14 billion aid package for Israel.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a6b98e94c78b77baf9378587723ff1600686a2fd58815752800ec9ba7f7b7009.jpg
Is this Karoline Leavitt in the photo? Looks like her , but she would have only been toddler at this time…. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/88f67be04749cfa82319419f2a9f557050d88d0bbe74f0a2e256da128a05cec4.jpg
Lynndie England was prosecuted for mistreating detainees during the Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse that occurred at the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad during the Iraq War. She was one of 11 military personnel from the 372nd Military Police Company who were convicted in 2005 for war crimes. After being sentenced to three years in prison and a dishonorable discharge, England was incarcerated from September 27, 2005, to March 1, 2007, when she was released on parole. – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynndie_England
I was being sarcastic.
It is amazing how propaganda and public manipulation can turn ordinary people into monsters who do heinous crimes against each other.
I realize you were joking. I was talking seriously about American war crimes. They never cease.
On Saturday, the Trumpenführer formally invoked the 1798 Alien Enemies Act, a major escalation in the erection of a police-state dictatorship. The White House moved immediately to deport hundreds of immigrants, blatantly defying a court order that any action be delayed.
The Trump administration is following a clear blueprint for dictatorship, modeled on Hitler’s fascist regime.
She was one of 11 military personnel from the 372nd Military Police Company who were convicted in 2005 for war crimes.
While the real war criminals got off scot free
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8e1ab7c13ef01ec9fdab3c71d2ecfc0223e8ae466e878cad0304e950a7a527dd.jpg
Israel – the IDF – are still doing this to Palestinian people in their prisons. Many die there as well.
The US and Israel's war crimes expose a huge weakness. When all else fails, use massive force. It is now being used on women and children in Gaza and Yemen. Trump and Netanyahu are betting that they will only confront Gazan civilians and poor Yemen. This will go on until the ME blows up in their faces. If a brutal violent Israeli occupation gave rise to the PLO and then Hamas. What of a modern day genocide?
And BTW, update the title to reflect over 400 killed.
"If a brutal violent Israeli occupation gave rise to the PLO and then Hamas"
For important clarification :
The brutal, violent Israeli occupation gave rise to the PLO.
To counter the influence of the PLO, the Israeli government then created and funded Hamas.
And here we are.
We have agency. Hamas is homegrown and supported by a large swath of Palestinian society. It’s been the main obstacle to euro-american zionist hegemony Palestine. Instead of admitting that, the arrogant west has to claim its their mistake rather than give credit to our resistance.
"Hamas is homegrown and supported by a large swath of Palestinian society" Agreed. If Palestinians did not support Hamas this war would have ended. But they do and the war continues and more Palestinians will die.
Bullshit.
Hamas is homegrown and supported by a large swath of Palestinian society.
And you know this because of the recent elections? Personally, I'd have a problem with them if I were a Palestinian. What kind of leadership leaves the vulnerable population defenseless against a brutal occupier?
The US, Israel and the PA have been preventing elections. Regardless, there are plenty of polls, local and student elections that monitor their popularity. Palestinians support Hamas not just for their Islamic agenda but also because they are resisting.
Hamas would not be able to maintain the resistance without popular support. In addition, Hamas and its leaders have suffered and sacrificed as much as their people and more. Furthermore, the problem is not with Palestinians or their resistance but with the occupation. Freedom has never been easy. It's fought for with great sacrifices.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/20dfea54d6931842106fd409357b9e2fb8ba92bdb12c7bc7f64e72b62780727e.png
Such a "moral" army. Cannot defeat Hamas or Hezbollah in head to head ground operations, but man, are they good at bombing women, children and babies.
Such a peace maker, Drumpf is.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d7f762303a6a3bda05328f9ca002f5790d0cddff22dffba14df12fba1f10288e.jpg
No one expected Israel to honor any cease fire.
Of course Drumpf provided stuff for Israel to continue the genocide. Mrs. Adelson is watching. Closely.
And watching her boy Rubio too. Probably thinking it's her best investment ever.
She is a monster.
This is just beyond anything we have ever seen. Every honest/moral/peace loving person should confront Israel. Putting it into context the Israeli's are worse than the Nazi's and considering the supporters particularly in USA the effects far worse. Time for everyone to get off their butts and do something.
And get deported or imprisoned for our trouble! https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5199564-trump-administration-deports-green-card-holders/
Bet that'll be next. Trump Admin pushing to remove American citizenship from any Americans deemed to be un-American.
I have siad that weeks and weeks ago. At least the Nazis somehow knew subconsciously that what they were doing was wrong, that's why they tried to hide most from the world.
That is no longer true with Israel and the US. They pride themselves in all those killings and simply demand and take the upper "moral ground" for themselves.
"Ve vere invited ! Check mit Poland !"
" Israeli's are worse than the Nazi" Ridicules statement. Call me when they start sending Palestinians to the gas chambers. When Israel hunts down a Hamas leader and that leader chooses to stay with his family who fault it shat the family gets killed with the Hamas leader? If that Hamas leader cared about his family he would stay away from them during the war.
What will folks of conscience do?
echo echo echo
from a very deep hole
from whence
the abyss
consumes
one and all
one by one
”It’s every man’s war that keeps us apart! With stalwart convictions and affairs of the heart…”
Trump IS Biden.
Trump is even more dangerous now than Biden. Biden had a bunch of war neocons in his cabinet but they were not quite as bloodthirsty than Trump's war enthusiastic cabinet in order to please the boss.
" Trump is even more dangerous now than Biden" You just figuring that out?
This is disgusting. Americans are paying for this barbarism and destroying the ideals this country once stood for. Whatever happened to that mantra we were all raised on: "Violence never solves anything" ? We've now devolved back to "Might makes Right!
And choosing St Patrick's Day to re-start the slaughter of the innocents was obviously a thumb nose at Ireland.
And we wonder about the actions of Bin Laden. This ongoing carnage will generate a thousand Bin Ladens for sure
Exactly. Given time to to group in other parts of the world anything associated with Israel's atrocities will pay the price.
Hamas is already dedicated to violence against the West and the destruction of Israel. You think that giving in to such blind hatred will create a peaceful utopia in Gaza? Israel left Gaza in 2006 and was leaving Hamas along until until Oct. 7. Did that work?
@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus Stop lying. Hamas never so much as lifted a finger against the "west." Its fight has always been with Israel and Israel alone, although the west is culpable and a party to the crimes of Israel. You're an instigator of hatred, trying to put a wedge between Muslims and the West. And Israel never left Hamas alone. Hamas has sought ceasefires since the 90's and Israel ignored or broke every single one.
And people like you and Israel think we are alone. Not only are we not alone but as Muslims we have a depth of support world wide that is genuine, sincere and empathetic. Unlike the shallow Zionist hold on American politicians that's based on blackmail, coercion and playing on the gullibility of Christian Zionists, our cause is genuine as this non Arab clearly demonstrates.
Gloss over the religious aspect and secularize the message to appreciate how Muslims all around the world cope with Israel's barbarism. Just the first 25 minutes.
@knappster:disqus@dangood:disqus@Garrett_Connelly:disqus@disqus_qhuce9v5DO:disqus@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@luisaldamiz:disqus@disqus_EUEJcUK1H4:disqus@disqus_dN6wlrSTKg:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_affEMJpSXn:disqus@gcw919:disqus@deganawida:disqus@renatelittlejohn:disqus@disqus_ky8vtfPjLn:disqus@warren_paine:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@disqus_x6lA5zVmCJ:disqus@binber:disqus@disqus_2TpzVQQZRu:disqus@disqus_ipWRUhe2NG:disqus@helmetdestroyer:disqus@unclesapien:disqus@disqus_lbkuZ0DrY6:disqus@disqus_QczQmccBvz:disqus@paladin1950:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@luchorpan:disqus@patrick_baggott:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus@disqus_7AS8SkfPD7:disqus
We are completely complicit. Biden and now Drumpf should have their *ssed hauled off to the Hague.
If neo-cons were really as worried about moral relativism as they claim, they would stop creating a realty where its true.
The "moral relativism" trope from the far Right is a telling one (and what a flashback to Conservapedia it is ! ). I would have them explain if they instead subscribe to Moral Absolutes, Objective Morality, or something else ?
…neither of MA or OM gets them to "America Is And Was Always Right".
The US has proudly stood on “might makes right” since 1776.
War is hell, but Israel and Hamas are both dedicated to the destruction of the other, so either Israel surrenders or Hamas does.
As for the value of war, the United States didn't get its territory by asking please. We have extracted billions of dollars of value from California and other states won through war with Mexico, and the US helped defeat Nazi Germany through war, not by asking please. Without war, we would still have slavery in half of the country.
The best way to end violence would be for Hamas to simply dedicate themselves to peace. Why is that so hard?
There can be no justification for indiscriminately murdering innocent civilians, including children and babies.
Agree, which is why Hamas should surrender, given up all hostages and weapons, renounce violence, and leave Gaza.
The US isn't giving Hamas hundreds of billions $$$ to murder civilians. Our government is complicit in these abominable War crimes because we are directly funding them.
Yes, the US supports its allies. In fact, by law, Israel is a "major non-NATO ally".
However, hundreds of billions? That goes to Ukraine, not Israel.
All war is crime, which is why you don't start them.
Heartbroken 💔
Pissed. Outraged. Disgusted. Trying hard to believe this is actually happening.
If Russia signs a ceasefire deal with Trump, they are morons.
I said that from the start. The US and Israel (including the EU now) can never be trusted to hold up the deal. For the West it is a means to regroup, rest the fighters and produce more deadly weapons and ammunition.
Me too. Such a very dark, dark morning which was made even worse by going to some other sites first. The bloodthirst of the Right ahs become dangerous, still using the Old Testament of a killing god to justify their genocide against all Arabs and frankly agaisnt anyone who is not Jew or Christian. One person even said that it is up to Jews adn Christians to fight all the rest of none-believers like Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims and so on.
"One person even said that it is up to Jews adn Christians to fight all the rest of none-believers like Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims and so on."
That person is a complete idiot. Where to even start ??? I think the idea of fighting Buddhists has to be right up there on the "What The F**k For ?" scale.
That and evidently that person is wildly unaware of the vast doctrinal gaps between Judaism and Christianity. Different beliefs entailing different (gods, afterlives, hells, prophets, messiahs, rules, salvations, prohibitions, permissions, traditions, rites, rituals, dogma, kerygma, canon, apocrypha…)
Good gravy – 35,000+ sects of Christianity illustrates that religion alone barely agrees and aligns with ITSELF, let alone another !
Leavitt repeated Trump’s threat that “all hell would break loose” in Gaza. Trump previously threatened that the “people of Gaza” would be “dead” if the hostages weren’t immediately freed.
You see when you say you're going all out terrorist then it's ok to go all out terrorist.
Leavitt is a star struck young, immature female who enjoys her little power to dish out to all those "none believers"
She is the white house Barbie doll…!
Taht's a good one.
Peaceful coexistence!….!….!…..
dropping bombs on hungry children. these are not the deeds of a strong confident military.
Genocide
by any other name
commits the same crime
Doesnt matter
if its in Palestine
or Germany
If today
is the same as yesterday
this is flagrant anti-semitism
The biggest bully
on the block
sanctions this horror
ah, yes
the city on the hill
lights it up with donated bombs
Complicity
active participation
worse than vietnam
Will you stand
you know what i mean
or shrivel behind the scenes
Dont get me wrong
i am not https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/27d82b458f5128e57afbd7e64574ca05dc8031b2a555e147bde102cf6ab5ec49.png doing all i can
but i will
this is what being
human is all about…
“How many roads must a man walk down?! Before you can call him a man?!”… …. …..
Been playing this every am for weeks now along with
2) where have all the flowers gone
3) if i had a hammer
4)eve of destruction
5)this land is your land
6) god and country-blue rodeo
7)two hangman
8) wovoka
9) all you fascists bound to lose
and,,,,
10) what did you learn in school?
Doing alot of Pete Seeger and Peter Paul and Mary
Hey all right, Blue Rodeo gets a nod ! I've seen them in concert about 15 times ! Greg Keelor telling the story behind 'Disappear' never fails to get a laugh.
'It Could Happen To You' is also a politically insightful track.
thanks
More in the US than Canada. We got the Metric System, one'a your roads is 1.4 of ours, per unit measure.
This is evil; evil as it gets. Children sleeping outside in the rubble, in tents, in collapsed houses—victimized by more shrieking bombs supplied by the US. But “the US is not an agent of Israel” said the envoy Boehler (now disappeared). Back on Jan 19 how many thought the cease fire would last, what with Netanyahoo “disturbed” at the political maneuvering behind his back. This is his payback to Trump for doing this–and on the day Trump is supposed to meet Putin over “peace in Ukraine.” Let the sharks play and slash at each other and see where that goes.
Trump is more than fine with this. He’s part of it.
Of course he is.
Boehler also said that Hamas were actually nice people. They could never let that go and had to disappear him. What on earth did he think going in there, that they were barbaric animals as he was taught?
Imagine the glee Net is feeling at this turn of events, this is who I meant by the "sharks." These "allies" are trying to outdo each other and be top dog as they sink into this quagmire of more and more evil.
This is his payback to Trump for doing this-
Did you miss this?
The White House confirmed that President Trump was notified before Israel launched the massive bombing.
Trump is not sly enough to keep up with the manipulations. Additionally of course he had already threatened this action at "all hell" etc.
https://apnews.com/article/50501-protests-project-2025-trump-state-capitols-ddd341171a54ba9b498cbfe7530e18ab
Every death that Israel inflicts upon these beleaguered people is a nail in its own coffin! May God Almighty enact justice on the perpetrators of this evil!
At the moment that's not what the US or Israel thinks. They still hold true and believe the Old Testament bible prophesy that they will win over all the rest of the none believers.
So good for US-sponsored "ceasefires"…
They will be brought to justice. There's no way such genocidal evil will go unpunished.
Justice in rules based order is “just us”.
Israel is a seriously f-cked up country. You get out of corruption trials by being a mass murderer.
Drop Site @DropSiteNews BREAKING | Jerusalem District Court has agreed to cancel Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu’s scheduled testimony in his long-delayed corruption trial, citing urgent “security developments” tied to Israel’s renewed war on Gaza.
According to Israel’s Maariv newspaper, Netanyahu requested the cancellation hours after overseeing military attacks on Gaza.
https://x.com/DropSiteNews/status/1901883769545797802
That just eats at me. I mean he literally can't possess a conscience. I really hope he has a horrible death, and I hope it comes soon.
I don’t like to wish horrors on people. But at the same time, I won’t lament them.
They are not normal people, they are the vilest creatures we can imagine, they know better or could know better.
I usually wait until they cross over a line. I hate to play god, but someone has to. Ooops! 😉
May be morally inconsistent, but I agree with both of you.
Perhaps this is where the term exception was born…
I think it is morally consistent, because your moral compass tells you right from wrong, that is the command of the moral compass.
He died in 2021, 87 years old. He had no conscience and neither has she, based on what is known. That says a lot about their friends.
I was talking about Netanyahu.
Sorry, my mistake but still, evil is evil in that sense they are the same.
I take a different approach. I've mentioned it before, I'm sure. I want the likes of Netanyahu, Trump, Rove, W. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld… ALL to live a long, long time. Ideally magically forever, that they CANNOT die.
And I want them to live this way in a world of the near future where the whole of Humanity knows exactly who and what they are, and what they did, and the scorn and derision chases these evil men EVERYWHERE for all time. No shelter or respite, no anonymity. All of Humanity as living mirror reflecting their horrors back onto these creatures, such that no ignorance or self-delusion makes for any kind of shield. They live fully aware that they deserve death but Death refuses to come for them, to end the waking torment of being who and what they chose to be.
Ya but, I can't think that deep. So, ass cancer it is.
How can nations go completely bonkers like the Israelis? It will take many generations to reeducate and recover. Less understandable are nations from the outside looking in and cant see how sick they are, denying the insanity they must see as outsiders? They feed the insanity instead to help healing.
Are we going to point out the oligarchs behind the murderous rampages and assaults on the bill of rights?
The Israeli-American Trump Mega-Donor Behind Speech Crackdowns
Miriam Adelson is more than a funder of the Maccabee Task Force, she's also its president
While Maccabee Task Force’s website makes no mention of Miriam Adelson, the group’s most recent IRS filing reveals she is far more than just its major funder. The Israeli-American billionaire is also MTF’s president. And under her leadership the group — with its sizable social media presence, particularly on Facebook where it has over 317,000 followers — came out swinging against Khalil and Columbia University with vitriolic and profane attacks.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/miriam-adelson-trump/
"Maccabee Task Force"
Bad enough that Kaspersky went dodgey and Norton Antivirus is a resource-hogging click-bait upseller ! What happened to antivirus companies ???
(Not that 3rd party AV software is terribly necessary for modern private users; as Windows Defender and other stock O/S programs do good enough work & most hackers' targets are gov't or corporate now anyways)
You!
The oligarchs are billionaire turd pieces. How can turd be that evil?
Glenn Greenwald & @ggreenwald
I hope people watch this video of the billionaire couple who gave more to GOP than almost anyone: former IDF soldier Miriam Adelson and her husband.
They often admit explicitly — and Trump said it, too –that their overarching priority is primacy of Israel, not the US. Watch:
4 ~ Henri Fjord ® @henri_fjord
Mar 16
"The uniform that I wore in the military unfortunately, was not an Israeli uniform. It was an American uniform.
Although, my wife was in the IDF… All we care about is being good Zionists. Being good citizens of Israel… Israel is in my heart.
-Sheldon Adelson
https://x.com/ggreenwald/status/1902003514160644568
The ASI broke the treaty (yes, for the 105th time, but in a huge and official way this time).
The regime occupying the Israeli State cannot be trusted. Either the Nation of Israel removes them by votes or legal action, or let any motivated actor remove those leaders and their goons by force. The ASI government is beyond reason at this point.
You are so civilized dealing with the evil creatures in power.
Is anyone really surprised?
Here's a sampling from our MSM:
The IDF announced a second wave of airstrikes took place in the early afternoon local time. Among the targets attacked were terrorist cells, launch sites, weapons and additional military infrastructure used by the terrorist organizations to plan and carry out terrorist acts, and which posed a threat to IDF forces and Israeli citizens, according to the IDF.
You'd think the fucking cowards had attacked a well fortified area where there wasn't a single civilian to be seen.
Indeed – CLEARLY all "legitimate terrorist targets" that the IDF had spared from any damage in the first thousand days of this genocide when they were otherwise destroying EVERYTHING ELSE.
Perhaps to keep them as pristine, prime targets on which to test their new 'atomic bomb' a couple times and scare off the Soviets ?
The Israelis could stop the slaughter immediately why don't they. What do they have to lose? Where is the peacemaker Trump?
He does not care about peace, only to be worshipped and making more money. What a shyster he is, and nothing but billionaire shysters around him.
What kind of monsters perpetrate this barbarity? And American money, arms, and logistics allow it to continue.
https://x.com/georgegalloway/status/1901819707214467073
Dear Antiwar Readers,
For what it's worth at this heart-sickening moment:
1/ the Jewish Voice for Peace website, which I mainly use to contact my lawmakers on the US enabled atrocities against Gazans; and
2/ a JVP website letter saying no to US bombs to Israel – which you can personalize.
3/ Note that when you enter your name/address, the software looks up your lawmakers, and gives a 'remember me,' option, so you can message your lawmakers on their website faster next time.
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource/tell-congress-block-the-bombs/
The current JVP 'stop deadly aid to Israel' letter:
"I am reaching out as your constituent to ask that you join your colleagues in co-sponsoring H.J. Res. 68, 69, 70, and 71 to block additional lethal weapons sales to the Israeli military.
"Over the last year and a half, the U.S. has sent over $17 billion in military funding and weapons to the Israeli military that have enabled a genocide against Palestinians in Gaza. Now, President Trump is making an already dire situation worse. Members of Congress must put checks on the actions of the Executive Branch by halting the additional $8.5 billion Trump weapons sale to Netanyahu.
"The Israeli government has walked away from the ceasefire deal and has publicly announced that it is once again completely blockading Gaza, preventing any aid or goods from entering. The use of starvation as a weapon of war is a war crime. It is time for Congress to stop the Executive Branch from supporting these atrocities.
"I hope that you will co-sponsor H.J. Res 68-71 to block this Trump weapons sale."
Done – thank you.
Thank you @abramawicz, It's worth a lot. Losing hope is not an option. We all do what we can.
Its the principles found in Islam that allow Muslims to distinguish among a group.
In reference to Christians and Jews, we are taught "They are not all the same. Among the People of the Book is a community standing…."
"… and THEY ENJOIN WHAT IS RIGHT AND FORBID WHAT IS WRONG and hasten to good deeds. And those are among the righteous." (emphasis added)
"And whatever good they do – never will it be denied them. And God is Knowing of the righteous." Q. 3:113-115
"Its the principles found in Islam that allow Muslims to distinguish among a group."
No, it's Muslims' innate humanity that allows this; the kindness, empathy, decency that we all possess, even if some cannot or will not employ it.
There's nothing useful offered by any religion that isn't possible by secular means.
"There's nothing useful offered by any religion that isn't possible by secular means."
That is not a truth claim.
Yes sure non Muslims and atheists possess all those qualities, however, Islam commands these things of us.
Secular people, atheists included, command these things of ourselves, and we hold ourselves accountable for our actions. We don’t take an unnecessary step to inject an undemonstrated deity into our equations of morality.
I don’t make truth claims, about the foundations of Islam or any / every other religion. Simply that I have not been presented any evidence that convinces me any of them are true.
It is objectively true that anything moral suggested by a religion, can be accomplished without need of a religion. I can love or hate without command from a god, and I can choose one over the other without one, too.
I type slow and may have repeated some of the things you said.
All good. Hey, in terms of…
"I've been going through this since I came "out" as an Agnostic/Atheist"
…if you're not already aware of atheist channels on YouTube like Talk Heathen, The Atheist Experience, The Line; and hosts and personalities like Forrest Valkai, Matt Dillahunty, Aron Ra, Promise, Arden, Vi La Bianca, Eric Murphy, Arden, Katy Montgomerie, Paulogia, Godless Engineer, Jimmy Snow, Seth Andrews…you may find all of these great resources for understanding the theist / atheist discussion, for interacting with theist family members and friends, and for refining your understanding of your epistemology. It has certainly helped me a lot !
In generalities yes atheists have morals. However, what is your argument against pedophilia, cannibalism, etc.?
I’m not an atheist, but presumably an atheist would argue against both by holding ability to meaningfully consent as key to the former and human life being the highest value as key to the latter.
And on the former, I’d expect the atheist to plausibly claim somewhat better standing than a Muslim, given the preeminent role of the husband of Aisha bin Abi Bakr in that ethos.
What if parents who have custody over their children gave consent? What if victims of pedophilia were financially compensated, psychological treatment was part of that compensation as part of a legalized industry and it was condoned by law makers and or a majority of society?
Islam put limits on marriage to minors. Something that did not exist in Christianity or western thought. what I am talking about is engaging in sexual relations with a prepubescent minor. Criticizing the Prophet's marriage to Aisha is anachronistic.
Philosophers like Nietzsche and Russel opined that morality is relative and thus subjective.
What about eating humans after death?
Given you are not an atheist, how would you respond to this?
@warsrus:disqus@unclesapien:disqus
I didn’t “criticize” his marriage to Aisha. I just pointed out that people who accord him a preeminent moral position aren’t very well situated to morally posture about pedophilia.
Yes, non-religious philosophers disagree with each other on what constitutes a correct morality … as do religious philosophers. So?
As for the video, it doesn’t strike me as especially convincing or well-argued, but I may be missing something in it that you particularly wanted me to note.
Again pedophilia is a western construct. Islam prohibits consumption of marriage before the parties are ready physically, mentally and emotionally. As I posted somewhere else earlier, for over 1300 years his marriage to Aisha was NEVER criticized until the "woke" western liberals and their orientalism appeared.
Without a religious prohibition against incest, a relativist would have to say that if there was adult consent and no one was harmed its ok for a father to have intercourse with his daughter. That is exactly what is wrong with western liberalism.
“Without a religious prohibition against incest, a relativist would have to say that if there was adult consent and no one was harmed its ok for a father to have intercourse with his daughter.”
“Non-religious” and “relativist” are not the same thing. And there are plenty of non-religious and non-relativist arguments against incest, starting with the one you just attributed to Islam, and proceeding to the possibility of increased rates of birth defects in offspring, etc.
While there might be things that only religion in general or Islam in particular have to offer, definitions of an prescriptions for morality aren’t among those things.
Who says anything about bearing children from the incest. They're adults. They can use condemns, the pill etc. I am saying its morally wrong for a father to have intercourse with his adult daughter with consent and within the privacy of their own home because God prohibits that action. Where is the clear prohibition against this under the various non religious philosophies concerning morality?
A secular argument against incest based on birth defects might note two things: 1) Contraception is not 100% effective and 2) the ability to use contraception does not necessarily imply the willingness to use contraception.
A secular argument against incest based on “consenting adulthood” could range from assertions of ongoing power imbalance even after the younger party reaches the age of majority to general “family unit cohesion trumps sexual desire” ideas.
With respect to incest, including adult consensual incest, Islam isn’t unique in its position. That’s a near-universal taboo. But its argument — “an entity we can’t prove the existence of says so” — is really only compelling to those who happen to believe in the existence of that deity and in the correctness of the persons claiming to represent that deity’s opinion.
Again, I did not posit the question as proof of God. I asked a question. The wrestling back and forth indicates the approach is to question regardless. There is no point to that. There are many verses indicating that the Children of Israel differed even after clear signs of the truth. We don't have to wrestle with a manifestation of God to establish our rights and dignity as humans with reason as related in the Torah.
For those who attribute existence to. a Creator need to search what that Creator requires of him/her.
As to your point, Islam would simply say that if all those harms were mitigated it would be a lesser sin, but still a sin. But again the Non religious still have to go through the universe of moral quandaries and still not be able to ascertain the correct morality.
Your prophet was an warlord, thief, and a pedophile. Very evil man. How can anyone marry a 6 year old girl and have an intercourse when she was 9? Even in his times it wasn’t normal. In ancient Persia marriage was allowed at 9 but intercourse wasn’t legal until 12. In Ancient Rome legal
Age to marry was 12 for girls and 14 for boys. I appreciate reading your anti Zionist posts but stop promoting Islamic propaganda on an anti war site.
Your points are accurate, but nothing about Islam's founder's life demonstrates whether Islam is true or not-true. Same goes for Paul, Confucious, Joseph Smith, Guru Nanak, L. Ron Hubbard.
Only by examining the CLAIMS of the religion and/or its founder(s) or proponents against extant reality, can we come to determine the truth value of a faith.
And A. Nubani's insights into Islam ARE of tremendous value in a political situation (in Gaza if not elsewhere) where such belief systems directly inform peoples' actions.
Ashraf is highly educated and well spoken, that’s for sure! He makes great points about evilness of Zionism or American/european powers acting on the behalf of that twisted ideology. I beg to wonder, however, when I see posts sympathizing with Muslim brotherhood or current regime in Syria that is radical Islamist. Zionism and radical Sunni Islam complement each other in destruction of once great middle eastern countries such as Syria. How can a former terrorist leader unify and guarantee stability to such a diverse place like Syria when he kills minorities, openly talks about being friends with Israel, and does nothing when the latter annex more and more of Syria s lands
I see enough of a divide between his religious leanings and his rational discourse to discount consideration of bias.
And not to get into “No True Muslim” apologetics OR accusations, but, almost every religion has adherents who co-op the religion’s tenets or authority to further their personal gains or desires or goals.
Religious doctrine doesn’t always encourage terrible actions; but they certainly help justify them.
Welcome Mikez to our little family forum. I come here to teach and learn. I am glad you enjoy my anti Zionist posts. If you ever have questions on Islam or Palestine don't hesitate to ask.
@knappster:disqus@dangood:disqus@Garrett_Connelly:disqus@disqus_qhuce9v5DO:disqus@disqus_ohIOfcAv3e:disqus@luisaldamiz:disqus@disqus_EUEJcUK1H4:disqus@disqus_dN6wlrSTKg:disqus@warsrus:disqus@disqus_affEMJpSXn:disqus@gcw919:disqus@deganawida:disqus@renatelittlejohn:disqus@disqus_ky8vtfPjLn:disqus@warren_paine:disqus@disqus_KAfPEpsMYs:disqus@existentialdread:disqus@disqus_x6lA5zVmCJ:disqus@binber:disqus@disqus_2TpzVQQZRu:disqus@disqus_ipWRUhe2NG:disqus@helmetdestroyer:disqus@unclesapien:disqus@disqus_lbkuZ0DrY6:disqus@disqus_QczQmccBvz:disqus@paladin1950:disqus@disqus_dw0PWv6cnf:disqus@luchorpan:disqus@disqus_yQfZ1jQKBt:disqus@patrick_baggott:disqus
We must understand a couple things first.
One, a "pedophile" is someone who holds attraction to children in a sexual way. A "pederast" is a pedophile who acts upon their desire (the postmodern Michael Jackson or Subway Jared)
Thus, some morality holds that thought-crimes like fantasizing about murder or molesting kids are NOT immoral; that violation occurs in the action, not the thought. So "pedophilia" might be held as neutral or not-immoral because some may hold that criminalising THOUGHTS is itself the immoral action. Which, of course, leaves "pederasty" as immoral, with no significant academic opposition to the designation.
Two – cannibalism. Here we come to questions of intent, consent, and Ick Factor. Incest factors into this question.
What's the intent of (action) ? Survival ? Pleasure ? Some utility to it ?
Who is harmed ? If there is informed consent all around to those entities involved, then no one is harmed, and immorality may well be discounted. If someone involved is harmed, then we have a hard-stop.
Ick Factor. Cannibalism, incest, Gay Stuff, body modification (tattoo, piercing, gender affirmation surgery etc). That someone feels repulsed by something does not make that thing immoral.
I find the idea of eye surgery hideously groddy, but my repulsion doesn't indicate a measure of moral standing.
Along with a Lawgiver comes consequences. In Islam, thoughts not acted upon are not punishable. In addition, yes individuals may have tendencies toward prohibited actions such as fornication or homosexuality, for example. If the desire is not acted upon, there is a reward for suppressing the desire to fornicate, etc. However, an adult having sexual desire toward a child, or a man lusting after a woman, or a man wanting to engage sexually with another man is still wrong by the shariah.
So this is my point. The atheist still has a moral quandary. If a father has sex with his 21 year old daughter, it's not immoral according to the moral relativism argument, even though many of us would find it repulsive. There was consent, it was done in the privacy of their home. No one one was "harmed."
Same applies to cannibalism. If one has a desire to feast on human flesh and young adults are willing to cut off parts of their body and donate all their bodies upon death to feed other human beings, its not morally wrong.
For Muslims, these things are determined by the Lawgiver, and the sources are the Quran and the Prophet's teachings and and actions.
So marriages of adults with children (e.g., Aisha/Mohammed), which also involve paedophilia, are not condemned by patriarchal Islam. Muhammad had more wives and concubines than the Qu'ran allows.
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Aisha%27s_Age
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Ages_of_Muhammads_Wives_at_Marriage
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muhammad%27s_Marriages
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Muhammads_Wives_and_Concubines
https://islamonline.net/en/why-did-muhammad-have-so-many-wives/
https://aboutislam.net/reading-islam/about-muhammad/11-wives-of-the-prophet-who-are-they/
https://www.dar-alifta.org/en/article/details/17/closer-look-at-prophet-muhammad%E2%80%99s-marriages
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/47072/wives-of-prophet-muhammad
https://www.quranspeaks.com/post/conclusion-islam-concubinage
https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/women-of-solomon-bible
Pedophilia seems to be a western problem mostly affecting white males. "minor" is a western legal definition. childhood and adulthood were very different constructs historically speaking. For over 1300 years, the Prophet's marriage to Aisha was never raised as an attack on the character of the prophet. Its only in the last century and a half that "woke" western liberalism has made an issue of it. Marriage to multiple women at the same time is not immoral.
Please also observe the civil and criminal laws etc. of the respective countries in which Muslims live.
"And when your children reach the age of puberty, let them seek permission ˹to come in˺, as their seniors do. This is how Allah makes His revelations clear to you, for Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise."
https://quran.com/24?startingVerse=59
"As for your women past the age of menstruation, in case you do not know, their waiting period is three months, and those who have not menstruated as well. As for those who are pregnant, their waiting period ends with delivery.1 And whoever is mindful of Allah, He will make their matters easy for them."
https://quran.com/65?startingVerse=4
https://www.answering-islam.org/Index/P/pedophile.html
https://muslimdebate.org/2013/05/25/religion-vs-paedophilia-part-1/
https://muslimdebate.org/2013/05/27/religion-vs-paedophilia-part-2/
https://muslimdebate.org/2013/06/09/religion-vs-paedophilia-part-3/
https://muslimdebate.org/2016/11/04/debating-the-marriage-of-aisha-introduction-overview/
https://muslimdebate.org/2016/10/16/the-marriage-of-young-aisha-a-muslim-response-dr-tabasum-hussain-mdi-canada/
https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php/child-rape-in-islam/348-the-permissibility-of-pedophilia-by-islam-and-its-scholars
https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php#Child%20ABUSE
https://www.newageislam.com/islam-human-rights/abolition-slavery-including-sex-slavery/d/35148
Are you a white male by any chance?
You ask in a racist way. I am not answering this question because all people have the right to equality according to internationally recognized human rights. Furthermore, skin color results from an adaptation to the ultraviolet (UV) radiation of the sun and to the vitamin D that the human skin produces with the help of UV-B solar radiation.
We are all born with the same skin color (pink). Please look at your lips, tongue, the inside of your mouth, finger or toenails, the bottom of your hand or foot etc. to confirm this.
Please also consider that, for example, humans versus humans show a 99.6 percent match of DNA sequences and humans versus chimpanzees a 99 percent match.
https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics/human-skin-color-variation
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20230811/Study-identifies-135-genes-associated-with-human-skin-color.aspx
https://www.psu.edu/news/research/story/deciphering-genetic-link-between-skin-tone-and-ancestral-origins
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-49031-4 Mapping and annotating genomic loci to prioritize genes and implicate distinct polygenic adaptations for skin color
https://www.genome.gov/human-genome-project
https://www.genome.gov/about-genomics/educational-resources/fact-sheets/human-genomic-variation "How do peoples’ genomes vary? In reality, any two peoples’ genomes are, on average, ~99.6% identical and ~0.4% different."
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10452283/ "Evaluation of Five Mammalian Models for Human Disease Research Using Genomic and Bioinformatic Approaches. The results showed that the rhesus macaque has the highest average identity (96.82%), followed by the marmoset (94.65%), pig (89.37%), mouse (86.65%), and rat (86.53%) (Table 1)."
https://humanorigins.si.edu/education/fun-facts/chickens-chimpanzees-and-you-what-do-they-have-common
I'm anti racism.
I don't understand your question. Do you think atheists condone pedophilia or cannibalism etc.?
No my question is how do atheists determine morality.
Bear in mind : atheism is the answer to ONE question – that being, "Do you believe in the existence of a god or gods?"
Those who answer "No", are atheist.
That is ALL that atheists have in common. That's it. That's the "atheist world view". Only that.
You can have atheists who are Humanists, or not. Believe in ghosts, Bigfoot, aliens. Right wing. Left wing. Libertarian. Authoritarian. Pro-Trump. Anti-science. Vegan. Pro-vaxx. Anti-vaxx. Neo-Nazi. ANTIFA. PROFA. Gay, Straight, or Australian.
Now – morality. Some atheists, myself included, follow the principle of doing that which maximizes well-being, and minimizes harm and suffering.
There will be objective / subjective questions to the nature of 'well-being' or 'harm', but by logic, reason, discussion, and empathy, we holding this view try to come to the best tentative understanding of morality based on our best understanding at the time.
Parents. Reading. Life.
understood, but those factors may drastically differ from one life experience to another. For such individuals morality is ultimately subjective.
Possibly.
And also possibly for Muslims.
One thing Islam has been able to do do, notwithstanding your point about Muslims differing etc., is maintaining a clear defined set of principles, tenets and practice that has stayed constant throughout time. One can identify with one of the letters "LGBQT…" and still be a Muslim. However, one is not a Muslim if one says homosexuality is not prohibited in Islam or you don't have to fast ramadan, or pray 5 times a day, etc..
As I said, Muslims start disagreeing with each other on principles, tenets, and practice at the very beginning, on the meaning of tawhid (the oneness of God). In that Islam is no different than any other religion that becomes widespread enough to start splintering into competing sects.
That is a misrepresentation. The early disputes were mostly over the attributes of God based on verses and hadith interpretations. Tawhid remained a shared foundational belief across all major Islamic sects, including Sunni and Shi'a Islam. However, theological debates emerged concerning the attributes of God (Sifat Allah), divine justice, and free will vs. predestination, etc. There is an orthodoxy to Islam that no one who studies the Quran –whether Muslim or not– differs on its consistency. Internally the Quran is consistent about Tawhid, and major principles.
Some Muslims interpret tawhid as monotheism, others as pantheism.
Strictly speaking, that's not accurate. You may be referring to Ibn al-ʿArabī’s concept of Waḥdat al-Wujūd (Unity of Being). While it shares some similarities with pantheism, they are not the same. While both emphasize the oneness of existence, Ibn al-ʿArabī’s view remains firmly within an Islamic monotheistic framework, whereas pantheism typically denies a transcendent, personal God.
"Some/others" the others are more like a small small minority.
This is a conversation we can have over a steak and non alcoholic beer or kombucha.
We may define “Muslim” differently.
I define it as “one who calls himself a Muslim.”
You seem to define it as “one who agrees with Ashraf Nubani on what constitutes Islam.”
LOL… I represent a mainstream position. If I messed up in conveying it, that's on me. Don't forget the steak invite!
I look forward to that steak, my friend. We may want to avoid discussing religion over the meal, though 😀
In my experience, Muslims — at least those in Saudi Arabia — are among the most friendly and hospitable people in the world. I have to assume that there’s some religious inculcation behind that, simply because it was so uniform. I never ran into a rude Saudi.
It's a semitic thing. I used to think Jews were cheap until I met Stanley Cohen. I was once in NYC for a visit with a friend. We passed by and I happened to mention that my friend and I were looking for a good seafood place. He told us to go to this place on the East side. What I didn't know is he called ahead to pay for the bill. We weren't expecting it. Most Arabs are just like that, especially the beduins who are known for their hospitality.
I was fortunate enough run into bedouin groups a couple of times and to eat with them once (some were camping nearby and the officer running the detachment I was with worked out a sort of catering arrangement with them for a traditional meal).
Wow, that’s incredibly nice.
BTW, this is how our community is feeling and dealing with Gaza right now. Gloss over the religious aspect and secularize the message to appreciate how Muslims all around the world cope with Israel's barbarism. Just the first 25 minutes.
So, if no one would have told me about a god, I would have been an ax murderer?
Lol, I hope not, especially you. While there is overlap, comprehensive morality can only come from the author of the universe and what brought us into being.
Thank you for thinking I wouldn't be an ax murderer because I'm a nonbeliever. But we're right back to square one about the ability to be moral WITHOUT being a believer. And instead of furthering this conversation I'll just leave it at that because I respect you.
Agreed, I appreciate the respect. I never insult anyone I directly engage unless they show disrespect. And then its usually better to walk away.
1.Children can not give consent because their brains and bodies are still developing, and they can not fully assess consequences. No one should force anyone into sex acts without consent.
2. Are there really hordes of people other than psychopaths, the mentally ill or starving humans who contemplate cannibalism? I find eating animals disgusting sometimes. I stopped eating red meat in high school for that reason.
Humans are born with an innate tendency that approximates a universal morality. We would call it firah (the natural disposition humans are born with). However, the question remains; how can atheists ultimately determine what is moral and what is not? In Islam its clear the Lawgiver is God. I gave extreme examples to highlight the point.
And regarding point 1. in Islam the issue is pretty clear and comprehensive. For purposes of marriage (because there is no sexual relations outside marriage and marriage is between a man and a woman, or a man and up to four women), each party has to be physically and mentally fit. In 6th century Arabia, Aisha was both. Its that simple.
Of all of the criticisms of Islam that existed for over 1400, not one attacked the Prophet for marrying Aisha at 9. It literally took over 1300 years, until the last century and a half when "woke" western liberal orientalists began to bring this up as a criticism of the Prophet.
In addition, the brain continues to develop long after puberty but adulthood is also a societal construct that differs in time and place. Marriage is not restricted to adulthood.
Today because of cultural norms most Muslims will not marry off their daughters even at 14 or 15, however, the point is who decides what right or wrong?
As for point 2. as I said it was to illustrate my contention about who is the arbitrator of morality when human beings can differ.
Furthermore, your position on meat brings up an additional point. Given how we raise, treat and slaughter animals, I know why people turn away and some become vegetarian/vegan. For Muslims, the issue is simple. Animals are a blessing and are to be treated humanely when slaughtering.
I’m agnostic because I don’t regard myself as all knowing. But as I said before, parents, reading, life, community.
The one thing that I would consider a asset about those without a god, is that they aren’t trying to do the right thing because they fear reprisal. But because it matters to them.
I don’t think one or the other is better or worse. There are good and terrible people with religion and good and terrible people without.
It would be better if humans stopped making differences more important than commonalities.
Punishment and the threat of punishment is used as a mechanism that resonates with different human dispositions. Some need that fear, others are swayed by the infinite mercy of God. Others relate to God's love etc. True Muslims, as true Jews and Christians want to please their Creator.
Even if Islam was clear and comprehensive (I suppose it may be comprehensive, since it starts splintering into argumentative sects at its most fundamental concept, tawhid, meaning it can be stretched to cover many bases although not all in the same way), that would make it neither provably correct nor self-evidently the only means of determining truth.
As I noted earlier, I did not “attack” either Islam or Mohammed over the latter’s marriage to Aisha. I simply noted that those who consider him a paragon of morality to the extent that he deserves respect and emulation today aren’t as well-positioned to morally condemn pedophilia as those who do so from principles that don’t rely on his standing.
I answered the second part. As for the first I didn't argue that determining morality is what proves Islam or God (even though it contributes). I genuinely had a question as to how can one determine morality. It is clear in islam.
Well, the process of determining morality in Islam seems fairly clear: By reference to the Quran (because it is is given directly by God) and the hadith (because Mohammed was the final prophet of God and his companions were wise and faithful reporters of the events of his experience and its meanings).
Islam, however, is not the only religion or philosophy with clear rules or instructions for determing morality.
Asking how an atheist determines morality, however, is like asking how someone with red hair determines morality. The only defining characteristic of an atheist is that he or she does not believe in a deity or deities.
You know my position. Morality is determined solely by God, and without belief in Him as the ultimate source of moral truth, human beings are left without a definitive standard, leading to subjective and ever-changing notions of right and wrong.
Yes, I understand your position. It fails on the claim that no one but you can have a “definitive standard.”
as long as human beings can memorize the Quran, we have a stable source to draw upon with each generation and or place applying it to their unique circumstances. In this way the shariah although a finite set of laws is expansive in its application. While the west finds God, leaves God, sets up a post modern world, etc. fluttering in the wind, Islam is grounded. The Quran, if people read it, speaks for itself. There's things neither I or anyone can change in its overall message.
I find eating animals disgusting sometimes. I stopped eating red meat in high school for that reason.
Damn man, we're soulmates. Been a vegetarian since 1978.
Yes sure non Muslims and atheists possess all those qualities, however, Islam commands these things of us.
Then that means it is possible through secular means whether Islam commands it or not. I've been going through this since I came "out" as an Agnostic/Atheist. My sister says I'm going to hell because I won't accept Jesus as my savior. It gets old. People who don't believe in a god, can have just as much empathy, kindness and decency as those that do.
Answering the big questions of life is a life long endeavor. We believe the Creator is just. The tragedy of Pharaoh wasn't that he was just evil but that until the end he refused to submit. The point is we shouldn't let ego or arrogance get in the way of seeking our path. Jesus is not god but he is a great prophet.
"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12, KJV)
Do you mean the Pharaoh of the Exodus story ? I hope not; a plain reading of that biblical story does NOT go the way Christians or those of Judaism would have it go.
Hamas does not release the remaining hostages.
Some Surahs of the Qur'an write:
33:40: "Muḥammad is not the father of any of your men,1 but is the Messenger of Allah and the seal of the prophets. And Allah has ˹perfect˺ knowledge of all things."
https://quran.com/33?startingVerse=40
15:9: "It is certainly We Who have revealed the Reminder, and it is certainly We Who will preserve it."
https://quran.com/15?startingVerse=9
5:82: "You will surely find the most bitter towards the believers to be the Jews and polytheists and the most gracious to be those who call themselves Christian. That is because there are priests and monks among them and because they are not arrogant."
https://quran.com/5?startingVerse=82
10:93: "Indeed, We settled the Children of Israel in a blessed land,1 and granted them good, lawful provisions. They did not differ until knowledge came to them.2 Surely your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Judgment regarding their differences."
https://quran.com/10?startingVerse=93
17:4: "And We warned the Children of Israel in the Scripture, “You will certainly cause corruption in the land twice, and you will become extremely arrogant."
https://quran.com/17?startingVerse=4
2.190 "Fight in the cause of Allah ˹only˺ against those who wage war against you, but do not exceed the limits.1 Allah does not like transgressors."
2.191 "Kill them wherever you come upon them1 and drive them out of the places from which they have driven you out. For persecution2 is far worse than killing. And do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque unless they attack you there. If they do so, then fight them—that is the reward of the disbelievers."
2.193 "Fight against them ˹if they persecute you˺ until there is no more persecution, and ˹your˺ devotion will be to Allah ˹alone˺. If they stop ˹persecuting you˺, let there be no hostility except against the aggressors."
https://quran.com/2?startingVerse=190
8.57 "If you ever encounter them in battle, make a fearsome example of them, so perhaps those who would follow them may be deterred."
https://quran.com/8?startingVerse=57
25.52 "So do not yield to the disbelievers, but strive diligently against them with this ˹Quran˺."
https://quran.com/25?startingVerse=52
60.1 "O believers! Do not take My enemies and yours as trusted allies, showing them affection even though they deny what has come to you of the truth."
https://quran.com/60?startingVerse=1
https://quran.com/4:95/tafsirs/en-tafsir-maarif-ul-quran Some Injunctions about Jihad
https://quran.com/22:78/tafsirs/en-tafsir-maarif-ul-quran "And struggle for (seeking the pleasure of) Allah, a struggle that is due to him – 22:78) The words جِھَاد – (jihad) and مُجَاھِدہ (mujahadah) mean to exert one's utmost effort to achieve an objective and to take pains for it. (That is why the word is translated above as 'struggle' )."
https://www.iium.edu.my/deed/hadith/muslim/019_smt.html KITAB AL-JIHAD WA'L-SIYAR (THE BOOK OF JIHAD AND EXPEDITION)
https://al-islam.org/jihad-holy-war-islam-and-its-legitimacy-quran-murtadha-mutahhari
https://al-islam.org/media/islam-and-war-sayyid-sistani-ethics-conflict
https://al-islam.org/peace-and-jihad-islam-sayyid-muhammad-rizvi/jihad-quran
https://al-islam.org/articles/jihad-and-shahadat-sayyid-mahmud-taleqani
It's the US doing this to make a Trump Mediterranean golf resort. Bombing innocent families is a Musk/Trump business deal using Israelis to genocide undesirable Palestinians,
"Tough lie for Trump on the 14th fairway, Jim; dogleg left around a pile of Palestinian children's corpses, without landing in not so much a bunker as a bombed-out hospital."
– "That's where you're wrong, Tom. No lie has ever been challenging for Trump."
”Angry red drips from the sky and through the puckish haze emerges, the hideous, grotesque shape of Man,! Standing naked… The nature of our beginnnings….”
Wonder why
we are left alone
on this pale blue dot
maybe, just maybe
because of what we do here?
This is psychopathy
textbook definition
gleeful And sadistic serial killing
And anyone cruising by sol's system https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/64953690037e568186cfed0602882c5887de7fc0e35d1ca602a6912d4c78fbf1.jpg
Would roll up their windows
lock the doors
and get the hell out of here
wouldnt you?????
Adds to the Zoo Hypothesis and Quarantine Hypothesis as leading solutions to the Fermi Paradox…
This is the mental institution/prison/school for the4 loonies of the milky way…Yet, also it could be, each of us sent ourselves here to do something,(pay a debt, do a Johnathan livingston seagull thing-We come here as a death and when we die, we actually are born…
Can anybody stop the rogue state of Israel from intensifying its year long genocide against Palestinians? What type of corrupt world do we live in that tolerates such barbarism? Is moral corruption the mark of our times?
Netanyahu and Trump are two very cruel men.
Israel is not a "rogue state". It is fighting a war following an attack on their people by an organization sworn to their destruction.
As for "genocide," that word is overused. Israel is not trying to wipe out the Palestinian people; Israeli Arabs do quite well in Israel, and so do millions of Palestinians in Jordan, because they follow one simple rule: don't kill Israelis.
Hamas doesn't follow this rule and hides out among civilians, betting that Israel will not attack them.
They have miscalculated over and over.
Netanyahu has encouraged Hamas as a separate entity from the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank under the principle of 'divide to conquer'.
Before October 2003, Netanyahu removed Israeli soldiers from the Gaza borders to allow Hamas to respond to previous provocations in the Jerusalem Mosque.
Yes the Netanyahu government is in charge of a rogue state that respects no law and no convention.
Yes, the Netanyahu government is guilty of a genocide in Gaza and Donald Trump is an accomplice to the crime. To exterminate a whole people is the very definition of a genocide.
Are Trumps gestures for peace in Ukraine a cover for these genocidal horrors? How can a sane population carry out such atrocities?
A sane population can't.
https://mondoweiss.net
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/16b1b5e4eb83f7d9bc3a2bd3dcae2e2b79b5c57cd18814423f058a89fa3f7954.jpg
My whussy reps are still in the 'but hamas is evil, they have demon tails, they eat babies etc…WE are on the WRONG side by 180 degrees https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f0b1d35c5480307f11118f3bdf314bf7aafc5ef9cb6b3d8c1c724e46b3ef1263.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/083899eeb4039ce94793b344f74e1363e2099881327d01005071cda59fef6def.jpg so its ok what isreal does…Makes me want to puke and get aboard the first ufo i see…
Israel's behavior is grotesque, but really, ours is much worse by any standard.
We are Netanyahu's poodle.
When i was a kid
for years
i devoured ww2 books
i dont know why
but i did
Germany in 1932
was a democracy
a highly civilized society
and then hitler sauntered in
You all know the rest
the cascading of evil
snowballing into the abyss
and the horror that unfolded
i was smug condescending and arrogant
Boy, that couldnt happen now
and if it did
for sure i would be in the front line
i wouldnt be a sheep and go along
Now here we are
its not that easy to stand up
is it?
Go ahead and back Palestine
say something against Israel
see what happens
Please google the [White Rose]
they were german kids and german soldiers
who dared dissent
when finally caught
court then a hanging
One day
they'll come a' knockin'
or i'll get shot on my bike
for having a Palestinian flag on my bike
and i have it on my hat too
im just an old man 135 lbs
i own no guns
never will
but if they do
i will not go
crawling or limp
no sir
Cause really
this is truly why
any of us are here
to stand straight and tall
as a woman or man
for what is right
It is the epitome of being a human being
Epilouge
my dad
when i was a young teenager
came home and gave me a poster
just out of the blue one day
Dad knew me
better
than i knew myself
anyway
the poster
was this giant great eagle
swooping down with huge talons
oustretched reaching for..
a small skinny mouse with no fear
with the face of a great sneer at the eagle
with one[ fist] upraised to the eagle
protruding from the fist
the bird
Dad said mike thats you
i was kinda insulted
now i know better
that was and is the greatest compliment
i ever got in 66 years
now is the time i earn it!
thanks Dad
Fuck the nazis
no matter who they are
no matter where they are
no matter who they claim to be
From the river to the sea
PALESTINE WILL BE FREE https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dfc06be1bca55ed0dbf818318f9e515559765f025dda341bee4ccb35df2b2fd7.jpg f