A new study published in the British medical journal The Lancet found that the Health Ministry in the Gaza Strip has significantly undercounted the number of Palestinians killed by Israel’s genocidal war.
The study reviewed the period between October 7, 2023, and June 30, 2024, and found there were 64,260 “traumatic injury deaths” in that timeframe. At the end of June 2024, Gaza’s Health Ministry said there were 37,877 dead, an undercount of about 41%.
As of October 2024, the study said the number of Palestinians killed by Israeli military action likely exceeds 70,000. The latest numbers from Gaza’s Health Ministry put the death toll at 46,006.
Explaining the methodology, the study said it used “capture-recapture methods to estimate total deaths from traumatic injury in the Gaza Strip from Oct 7, 2023, to June 30, 2024. By combining three data lists—official hospital lists, an MoH survey, and social media obituaries—we provide an estimate of mortality that accounts for under-reporting.”
The study only accounts for deaths caused by violence and not indirect deaths caused by the Israeli siege and the destruction of medical and other civilian infrastructure.
The figures coming from Gaza’s Health Ministry have been under significant scrutiny from Israeli officials and their supporters in the West. In the early days of the genocidal war, President Biden cast doubt on their accuracy, but a high-level US State Department official later acknowledged the real number of dead was likely higher than what the Health Ministry was reporting.
The number of indirect deaths caused by the Israeli siege is unclear but is likely significantly higher than the violent deaths. A letter written by experts and published by The Lancet in July 2024 estimated that if the war ended at that time, the conflict could account for 186,000 deaths, including 37,396 violent deaths (based on June 2024 Health Ministry figures) and indirect deaths.
How can Israelis live with their shame?
Good questions deserve reasonable answers!…
They don’t see the Palestinians as human. It’s like asking how we can live with the shame of harvesting corn.
They don't see anyone as human…! Western relations are pretended…!
This is a tribal war. The only way to win a tribal war is to completely eradicate the enemy tribe. The Palestinians understand this, and so does the Israelis, but the Israelis are constrained by their allies so they have to pretend otherwise.
Well, there’s more than one way to skin a cat. The Israelis can just expel the Palestinians. 2 million can march into Lebanon where food and aid can be made available. Israel can then build a wall wherever (it seems to like high ground). Trump would bless any new acquisitions; the new Syrian government would bless any new lands. The Saudis and Turks would bow. Iran is powerless.
It all seems easy enough. Then the US can fully exit.
There is no exit for purpetrators of genocide except suicide!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
Good description. A tribe was threatened with extinction, or at least was in dire straits, some 3000 years ago. The tribe developed an ideology aimed at survival, including a war god. It still is the ideology.
This is not a tribal war, this is a genocide which the Israeli's announced their intent in advance!
The West has continued to provide support for Israel this is documented – your idea that the sadistic Israeli's are being constrained by their allies is pretending otherwise.
The one does not exclude the other. What you call 'genocide', andrewp111 calls 'completely eradicate'. What's the difference?
Indeed, millennia ago – see for example the Book of Joshua. That still is scripture, and may be called 'tribal' in character.
Not interested to explore works of fiction.
That's irrelevant. What is relevant is what explains zionist behavior.
The hypocrisy is all yours, you brought up the suggestion to read a work of fiction.
No I did not. I wrote:
What is relevant is what explains zionist behavior.
That’s an insult.
That qualifies you as a over quoting liar.
There's no need to continually quote other people on this forum when replying and you want to express your opinion, I have no idea where you picked up this nasty habit the fact that you do this reveals something about your personality and that you're not really here for discussion.
Great writers have used fiction to explore many subjects.
Not here to discus fiction like the book of Joshua, do that in bible class – this is Antiwar we discus wars and current affairs.
He doesn’t need your permission to discuss things you don’t want to discuss.
It’s not about permission.
Have a nice day.
Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims are not out to eradicate "Israelis." The state, yes. I looked through the entire Quran to find something akin to the story of joshua or the eradication of the Amalekites. No such thing exists. In addition, the Muslim conquests spared the populations of the conquered as a matter of fact.
Finally, Saladin was expected by your understanding to destroy the Crusaders in Jerusalem but he spared their lives.
This is not a tribal war and the genocide/eradication is one sided. @Southernfink:disqus@luchorpan:disqus
@ Ashraf Nubani You reply to me …
I don´t state that.
I don´t state otherwise.
If you’re trying to put words in my mouth, don’t do that, I don´t like that.
No, not 'by my understanding'. Don´t second guess what's in my mind. You can't read my mind.
I examined the tribal aspect (by referring to the book of Joshua and 'tribal survival ideology'). Zionism started as a secular movement. A religious element came in.
Further, talk of a “war in Gaza” is propaganda because it tries to evade that it’s genocide.
But that doesn’t take away the tribal element in zionist behavior.
You provide no reason against that, you only state that it is not so. That’s insufficient.
I did not refer to the Quran.
Meanwhile I understand the misunderstanding.
andrewp111 wrote
The word 'war' suggests two sides, in some reciprocal relation. andrewp111 also falsely suggests Palestinians want to eradicate the enemy tribe. That's what y'all react to and object to. Right.
But I react to tribal and consider the tribal aspect of zionist behavior.
There is no equivalence.
The European Zionists who colonized Palestine are colonialist invaders. They stole Palestine out from under the Palestinians.
The major issue for Americans is ending all US aid to Israel.
Until then, this is Uncle Sammy's genocide.
Definitely not a tribal war. I would fight my biological brother if he did to me and my family what the Israelis have done to the Palestinians.
Yes, I too was picturing a corn harvest.
They have no shame, they only care about themselves.
Easy. When people who are trying kill you get killed you don't lose sleep over it.
That vile "logic" in no way justifies the killing of tens of thousands of women and children by Israel, not does it justify killing any non-combatants.
You are a very ill person.
Tim is not interested in morality.
Morality is irrelevant in war. It may be relevant to politics, though.
Even wars have some basic rules and regulations, like the red cross protection of medical buildings and care taker, and the Zionists with American approval don't even respect that, or the bombing of civilian structures and people including children, infants and toddlers. In sport, even boxers follow rules. Humans like Biden and Netanyahu are below wild animals, even wild animals have rules.
Correct Lysi. Animals ( or other-than-humans as I prefer to call them) do not kill for the sake of killing. Males may fight for the favor of a female, but they don’t perform indiscriminate murder.
Dehumanized humans are some special creatures, as you point out, animals don’t kill for the sake of killing, they are not sadistic, humans are.
A nihilistic perspective and far too gilb..
Morality is relevant to the decision to launch a war.
Morality often also imposes limits as to what tactics are employed as well.
He does not know what morality is.
Morality vs. mortality?!
Zionist & NWO propaganda is your game.
What about the actual subject here, no comment? Of course not. Propagandists always distract.
Always trying to simplify Israel's obvious over the top brutality and always failing. Do you need numbers again, Timmy? What is it, like 71 aid trucks getting in when 500 are needed just to get back to being food insecure? Only low life fucking scum wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Are you a low life fucking scum, Timmy?
Apparently so, Wars. He clearly believes that history began on Oct 7 2023 ( which was entirely justified in any case.)
Are you the same Gypsy that used to post here? If so, nice to see you again.
Yes I am, Wars! Someone called me “ Danger Gypsy” once and I kind of liked it 😁
Nice to see you too, as well as Donna 🙂
Settler colonialists think they are entitled to wipe out whoever was there before them.
No sooner then when Syria had fallen, like vultures swooping down onto a fresh cadaver, maps in hand staking a claim over new land, similar scenes in Gaza and Lebanon.
Shame? Surely you must be joking?
The perpetrators don't feel shame, they are inhumane creatures without any decency, without a sense of responsibility, regret or remorse for their crimes. They have no conscience.
Lysi, I believe that they are not only inhumane, but INHUMAN.
I recently watched a program, skeptically, concerning vampire hunters, claiming that vampires exist but are not nor have ever been human. It turned me into a believer.
Look into the deep soulless pits of Bibi Nosferatu’s eyes and it’s clear that he is not human. Vampires, the lot of them, who thrive on the blood of innocents.
Well said, I agree.
More like inhuman! They have becum monsters of arvice &
They have no shame or souls apparently!!! Certainly they have no trace of humanity!!!
Shame, shame, shame!… We know your name!
What is shameful is that we here in the West never take the time to honestly reflect on what triggers man's inhumanity to man. Apart from the "bad apples" like the Netanyahus and the Hitlers, is the west's refusal to come to terms with its own past. It beats us over the head with liberalism, democracy, individual freedom, women's rights and capitalism, etc. However, it is falling apart at home and losing ground abroad. Islam as a world religion and a growing tangible force in the world today demands justice even for one's enemies. One command is don't let one of your enemies' accusations against you be you did not show justice in your implementation of power over an enemy. Hate Palestinians all you want, but instead of slaughtering them, show them some justice. The west is not capable of this. And if Muslims aren't capable, the struggle will continue until some group of human beings are able to put in the same massive efforts for justice that the west puts into colonial settler, ethno-supremacist objectives.
It's NOT about religion, it's about greed and power. All religions are obsolete and meaningless.
It's not about religion. Objectively speaking, Islam is growing at the expense of the west. "All religions are obsolete and meaningless." is an opinion.
@donnavolatile:disqus
It’s a fact of science. Islam is only “growing” vegetatively: forcing children to be brainwashed and mutilated even, that’s no merit and those children will desert you. Christianity was also flourishing a century ago and what is it now: a smoking ruin of scandals and totally out of place residual bishops.
We can come to a mutual agreement on reality while differing on ideology. And let's assume you are right and Islam is in a "vegetative state," it's not because of the correctness of your analysis but in spite of it.
1. Polls even among the young indicate a desire for shariah. 2. The comparison to Christianity indicates a misunderstanding of Islam historically and its current role. Islam, even for some in the West, has become the last bastion of defense against secularism and western liberalism.
We can agree that Euro-America and Israel fight to undermine Muslims not because Islam is corrupt, violent and backward as you believe, but because it is a growing threat to American-Euro and Zionist hegemony in the Muslim world.
Please listen to this podcast at 8 minutes to 14 minutes. If one is against oppression it has to be applied across the board.
@warsrus:disqus@knappster:disqus@andrewp111:disqus@richardstevenhack:disqus@Garrett_Connelly:disqus@Southernfink:disqus@Southernfink:disqus@disqus_qhuce9v5DO:disqus@mark_thomason:disqus@disqus_E05j4B3lQf:disqus@chrischuba:disqus@donnavolatile:disqus@renatelittlejohn:disqus@disqus_zPMJ7rV4CH:disqus@lilysandoz:disqus@disqus_BMj3IHE82v:disqus@disqus_Ua0lwP5eay:disqus@disqus_Nwhq9zhwQp:disqus@luchorpan:disqus@disqus_1I7o7RsPa7:disqus
Meh, this is Muslim Brotherhood trying to sell the great betrayal as something positive. Palestine is now much hopeless than in November, only Yemen fights the good fight, all the rest are traitors no matter how much they praise Allah.
They just have patience, forsight and faith. Hamas who launched Oct 7th is still fighting, inflicting death to Israel by a 1000 cuts. Even if this latest round ends and we live to fight another day, we win. Although the Muslim Brotherhood is leading the resistence, all factions in Palestinian society is resisting. They haven’t given up. Why should we?
They have ample private pockets, deceit and betrayal in their hearts. The Muslim Brotherhood is only leading Zionist bootlicking, WTF?!
Anyhow, how do you expect Sharia to win when it brutally oppresses that 50% of humanity that are women?, who can do everything that men can, including nowadays war, because modern weapons are unisex. It’s a monster emerged from our worst, yet historical, nightmares.
Zeus (same patriarch god concept as Allah/Deus/Yaweh/El) was scared of a prophecy about his demise by one of his children, just as he had deposed Kronos before and just as Kronos had deposed Uranus even earlier. He was so scared that he devoured his lover Metis (Wisdom) when she was pregnant, however Athene, their daughter, goddess of Reason (and of reasonable war, I guess) was born in full armor and gave him such an ungodly headache that he had his head open by an axe, and thus Athene was reborn again. Then Zeus demanded the titan Prometheus (Foresight) that he revealed him the threatening child (Fate is weaved by the Moirae, not even the gods can avoid it), Prometheus never spoke even after eons of being chained to Mt. Caucasus, his liver devoured every day by an eagle, regenerated every night by his own immortal divinity. Now in hindsight we can understand that it was Athene all the time the one who was prophesized.
Prometheus is a very interesting god, he’s the same as Nordic Loki (Stephany 2012), both related to fire, trickstery and prophecy (Loki is meant to walk the rainbow bridge leading the fire giants and the victims of the Aesir warlords in the final battle of Ragnarok, in the meantime he’s also chained in a cave like Prometheus to the Caucasus). IMO that means that both are “captive” versions of the Basque snake/dragon god Sugaar, the Madju (whose nickname I use as mine). Prometheus is also in the Greek tradition the one who created mankind out of clay: he’s both Yaweh and the Snake of Paradise… and that’s how the Yazidi mystery is probably solved.
The Bible and the Quran are just tiny slices of a much bigger story, you can’t hope to ever understand the puzzle while looking obsessively at only a tiny piece. A book is only a very small part of Reality.
For what they were we are, for what we are they will be.
Humans have a need to explain and believe the unknown, religion. That believing is being abused by what we could call weaponizing religion to serve the lowest human desires. Outsiders will misuse the religious needs of true believers, that seams to be true of all three big religious believes.
Sure. But one thing is spirituality, which we all do at least now and then, and another very different thing socio-political dogma imposed patriarchally. Religion is not just religion.
Oppression of the weaker sex is not a Muslim issue but a human issue. There are plenty of instances of oppression of women in the west like expecting them to be women, mothers and on top of that compete with men. The shariah actaully protects womanhood and is in tune with their disposition as females.
I loved Greek mythology in high school and college. Monotheism and islam does not even compare.
It’s indeed a global issue and one that should be addressed and is being addressed at least by the regional revolutionaries like the SDF. Jineology is very interesting but totally incompatible with “political Islam”. Going back to the far right won’t solve anything, only aggravate problems: there’s no exit to the right, it’s the fundamental rule of the Labyrinth.
"Hate Palestinians all you want, but instead of slaughtering them, show them some justice." And how you do that when they are firing rockets at your cities, blowing up buses and killing your youths at a dance party?
Justice for Palestinians = an end to Israel.
Israel stole Palestine with the help of the British Empire.
Your zionist heroes set up 10/7. They did not respond for 8 hours, with attack copters 5 minutes away. They received several warnings ahead of the event. You have cognitive deficiencies. That border is heavily monitored with cameras and motion detectors. You are not a credible person.
Easy: justice is brought about by justice. Then there is no cause for the violence you describe.
Your question conceals a deeper fear and motive. Like most Israelis you are scared of Arabs. I have provided you with many responses to this fear. The leader of Hamas said "We do not fight them because of who they are but what they did to us."
I have explained how Muslims have saved those people on numerous occasions in history, etc.
I sent this quote from Hitchens in another comment but you did not respond. (I provided it again below in case you want to respond)
There's not much I can do for you Tim. I would suggest talking out these issues with a therapist. They have ones who specialize in group trauma therapy.
There are organizations dedicated to supporting survivors of group trauma:
(JFS): Provides therapy for Holocaust survivors and their families.
Holocaust Survivors' Mental Health Program: Offers tailored mental health services.
“Suppose that a man leaps out of a burning building—as my dear friend and colleague Jeff Goldberg sat and said to my face over a table at La Tomate in Washington not two years ago—and lands on a bystander in the street below. Now, make the burning building be Europe, and the luckless man underneath be the Palestinian Arabs. Is this a historical injustice? Has the man below been made a victim, with infinite cause of complaint and indefinite justification for violent retaliation? My own reply would be a provisional 'no,' but only on these conditions. The man leaping from the burning building must still make such restitution as he can to the man who broke his fall, and must not pretend that he never even landed on him. And he must base his case on the singularity and uniqueness of the original leap. It can't, in other words, be 'leap, leap, leap' for four generations and more. The people underneath cannot be expected to tolerate leaping on this scale and of this duration, if you catch my drift. In Palestine, tread softly, for you tread on their dreams. And do not tell the Palestinians that they were never fallen upon and bruised in the first place. Do not shame yourself with the cheap lie that they were told by their leaders to run away. Also, stop saying that nobody knew how to cultivate oranges in Jaffa until the Jews showed them how. 'Making the desert bloom'—one of Yvonne's stock phrases—makes desert dwellers out of people who were the agricultural superiors of the Crusaders.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Hitch 22: A Memoir
@andrewp111:disqus@Garrett_Connelly:disqus@disqus_qhuce9v5DO:disqus@luisaldamiz:disqus@chrischuba:disqus@donnavolatile:disqus@dreamjoehill2:disqus@disqus_Ua0lwP5eay:disqus@luchorpan:disqus
And how you do that when they are firing rockets at your cities, blowing up buses and killing your youths at a dance party?
And that would be like a boy scout jamboree in comparison to what Israel has done to the Palestinians. And that's not just concerning what has happened since Oct 7th, 2023. The killing has been one sided for decades in favor of the real terrorists, Israel.
Wait a moment, an ethnically cleansed population that is kept in an open air prison and periodically massacred dares to fight back with whatever primitive, ineffectual means are at their disposal? The horror! Anti-Semitism at its most brutal!
That's an understatement surely. Nobody knows how many bodies remain under the rubble or were buried, often while still alive, by the Zionist bulldozers.
And this is only direct victims of bombings and shootings, what about all those died because of the famine and diseases caused by the genocidal campaign? I suspect that the figure is close to half million already.
As usual, no breakdown of deaths. How many fighters were killed? How many civilians were killed in same strike as the Hamas fighters? How many civilians were killed when duel use facilities were hit in strike?
The "dual use facility" claim is a fraud used to rationalize massive war crimes.
Death to Zionism!
Yes, they always have excuses, so they have to attack in every direction, this time even west to Yemen.
The IDF claims to have killed 20,000 Hamas fighters, subtract that from the total deaths to get a lower bound of civilian deaths. The IDF basically counts every male over 16 as a Hamas fighter.
Tiim has no interest in facts, he is here to recite the zionist lines.
BINGO!
Worse then that.
They target everyone, man, women, children, journalist, UN personnel, aid workers, hospitals doctors.and after a bombing they send in the drones to kill any survivors.
So then, those deaths are OK with you we figured that.
Tim it's a shame to have to argue numbers. Well whatever Israel says has to be dismissed because they lie and you can't trust liars. Peer reviewed report just came out today saying the death toll could be 40% higher than what the Gaza Health Ministry is reporting. The research was conducted by experts from institutions including the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and Yale University. @disqus_Ua0lwP5eay:disqus@dreamjoehill2:disqus@luisaldamiz:disqus @
You expect clean reports as if the people had nothing else to do then count and record the names and numbers of dead bodies when they don't even have the tools to find and rescue the living, the people under the rubble.
Or feed themselves in the meantime because Israel is using starvation as war objective.
Genocide but first comes the torture of unarmed civilians, including women and children, infants and toddlers, starving, dehydration, lack of hygiene, sanitation and medical care, bombing and amputations and other surgery without anesthetics, and babies freezing to death, and then comes the killing, being torn to shreds and under rubble. The most brutal genocide in history that we know of.
The Americans/Israelis have weaponized food, water and shelter even against children, down to infants. Snipers kill toddlers, IDF scum use bulldozers and tanks to roll over people. Americans are in it up to their necks, and Trump is set to continue with even more support than Biden, if that is even possible. What a shame for the American people, it is a democracy, at least they say it is. To think, they are continents apart from Gaza but participate in genocide of the Palestinian people.
Superiority base on religion is the fuel of Zionism.
Lots of racism too!
Even against fellow Jews.
Calling the casualty figures of the Gaza Health Ministry into doubt is really shitty propaganda, but then again, you're a shitty, murder loving Zionist if there ever was one.
Death to Zionism!
I see that "Death to Zionism!" has become your signature when responding to certain people. 🙂
The deflection and refusal to acknowledge reality are staggering in your set. Here’s all you need to know. Numerous NGOs have cited the figure of 70% of all killed are women and children, which is exactly the percentage you would expect if that population was indiscriminately bombed. Genocide.
Why do you continue to play stupid? Or are you actually that stupid? Try to picture a densely populated area (2.3 million) of 140 square miles getting bombed with over 80,000 tons of state of the art munitions including 14,000 2,000 lb bombs and not letting enough food and medicine to even remotely sustain life for 2.3 million people and tell me how in the fuck ANYONE can survive. What difference does it make what the "breakdown" would be? Do you think wiping out 30,000 Hamas fighters justifies killing anything that moves? Fuck man, are you that sick?
Yes, he is that sick. He’s infected with the psychiatric disease known as Zionism. The disease compels one to abandon all objective data and always conclude that you are hated because of some innate evil in humankind and not because of your depraved behavior. I do not exaggerate.
I don't know about @disqus_lbkuZ0DrY6:disqus, but you got the diagnosis right.
"are you that sick?"
Obviously he is.
Zionism is a sickness.
Death to Zionism!
The exact numbers don't matter. Whether it is 30K, 70K, or 186K, those numbers are a tiny fraction of 2.3 million. To win this war, Israel must remove the entire Gaza population. Removal can be either migration to a far away location, or death. But that is the bottom line – Israel can only win if the entire Gaza population is gone for good.
Sure exact or approximate all the numbers matter because of what they are connected to the death and destruction of innocence an age.
41% (70,000) my ass. That number was in the rear-view mirror months ago.
Correct, Wars. Ralph Nader estimated months ago the the number of slaughtered was closer to 300,000.
If there’s one single Amerikkkan I trust, it’s Nader.
Is that the same Nader who used his “consumer protection” non-profit as a way to short stocks and make himself rich, while pretending to live in a “simple room” but actually sneaking out every night to sleep in a very nice Brownstone he kept in his sister’s name? That Nader there?
Quite the slur.
Got anything to back it up?
Here’s a good place to start:
https://www.realchange.org/nader.htm
I left out the scheme where he extorted universities into having students automatically contribute to his “Public Interest Research Group” with their activity fees and denounced Penn State’s insistence on making the contributions voluntary.
The article you provided does not support the claim that "Nader who used his "consumer protection" non-profit as a way to short stocks and make himself rich,"
It reports that groups he headed played the market, but there's insinuation he made "himself rich" or personally profited from the trades.
The bit about sleeping at the homes of family members is trivial, not really proven and not particularly relevant.
Nader was the late 20th century's most effective leader against corporate corruption, but he was and is essentially a bourgeoisie reformer; so it's not surprising that he suffered from some fairly typical bourgeois aspirations.
Your attack on Nader is not well-substantiated and I really question its intent.
Ultimately it's s rightist smear job.
Very disappointing.
What attack on Nader? I just mentioned some facts about him, that’s all.
Get real. It was an attack on Nader and its main point, that he used his “consumer protection” non-profit as a way to short stocks and make himself rich, is not factual at all.
He shorted Goodyear stock, knowing that one of his organizations was about to issue a negative safety report on its tires.
That’s just a fact.
I don’t have an especially negative opinion of shorting stocks, or even necessarily of “insider trading.” Maybe you don’t either. But it does raise the question of what relation/proportion Nader’s “consumer protection” activities had to consumer protection versus Nader’s bottom line.
“He shorted Goodyear stock, knowing that one of his organizations was about to issue a negative safety report on its tires.”
But your comment implied that “Nader who used his “consumer protection” non-profit as a way to short stocks and make himself rich” implies that he somehow stole the money from his non-profits.
“It does raise the question of what relation/proportion Nader’s “consumer protection” activities had to consumer protection versus Nader’s bottom line.”
From your link:
In 1976, PSRI and the SSF bought stock in Goodyear just as the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration — then run by former top Nader aide Joan Claybrook — announced an investigation of the Firestone 500 series of steel-belted radials
Are you referring to some other source? Because this doesn’t say what your claiming.
It says Nader groups bought stock in Goodyear. Very different.
“implies that he somehow stole the money from his non-profits.”
It implies no such thing. Do you not understand what shorting a stock means?
“It implies no such thing.” I’m happy to know that. Embezzling of his own groups would seriously discredit Nader.
“Do you not understand what shorting a stock means?”
Ain’t that when they saw the legs off the cattle, so’s they can’t run off? };-)>
Your linked article:
" In 1976, PSRI and the SSF bought stock in Goodyear just as the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration — then run by former top Nader aide Joan Claybrook — announced an investigation of the Firestone 500 series of steel-belted radials"
So this does not state that Nader shorted Goodyear.
So I ask again, is your claim of short selling Goodyear based on some other source?
And spare me anymore confused and condescending questions. They can be one or the other but both is a bit much.
The claim was based on a book-length biography of Nader that was published in the late 1980s or early 1990s and that I read in the mid-1990s. I don’t recall the title. You’re free to believe the facts, or not believe the facts, or make up your own “facts.” No skin off my nose.
“You’re free to believe the facts, or not believe the facts, or make up your own “facts.”
In a debate, facts are either proven or unproven.
The Goodyear claim falls in the latter category.
In a restaurant, items are either on the menu or not on the menu.
We’re not in a restaurant. Or in a debate.
LOL.
Clearly you aren’t anyway.
You prefer your vile smears to go unchallenged and then spout bullshit about “facts” that you are unable to prove.
You’re free to challenge my “vile smears” all you like.
Not that whining about them really constitutes a “challenge.”
I’m not whining.
You can be a real jerk when your arguments are refuted.
Gues you just can’t take being proven wrong.
It’s almost an interesting case … almost.
You spend 90% of your time here screeching that everyone else on earth is terrorist Zionist filth, etc.
Then as soon as someone mentions some mundane facts, well-known to anyone who cared for decades, all of a sudden it’s Yale-Harvard debate time. This is “argument!” You are “refuting!” And not just that, but, because you say so, it’s “proven!”
Fuck that noise. I don’t owe you anything, least of all to become your research assistant any time you happen to decide that you dislike the truth.
“You spend 90% of your time here screeching that everyone else on earth is terrorist Zionist filth, etc.”
Hardly. You’re telling more lies. Anyway, lots of people here upvote my comments
“Fuck that noise. I don’t owe you anything, least of all to become your research assistant any time you happen to decide that you dislike the truth.”
As I mentioned, you get pretty fucking testy when challenged.
Looks like an ego problem to me.
Your ATTACK on Nader was not factual and was a right wing smear.
FUCK THAT NOISE.
It is perhaps possible that I become testy when challenged.
But you’re flattering yourself if you claim to be challenging me.
You didn’t like some facts I mentioned, that’s all. You’re free to whine about how you don’t like those facts. You’re free to pretend they’re not facts. But they’re facts and will remain facts whether you happen to like them or not. Have a nice day.
“You didn’t like some facts I mentioned, that’s all”
You’re calling them facts, but you can’t prove them and get quite testy when that is pointed out.
That’s incredibly arrogant and quite ridiculous.
From the article you linked:
“College PIRG groups, which Nader founded and leads despite his denials of control, use an astonishingly undemocratic, even coercive funding mechanism that Ralph designed. Once a college approves, all students are automatically billed a few dollars out of their student fees to support the local PIRG. To avoid paying, students must make a special trip to the Registrar and fill out a form so they can get their $2-6 back.”
This method was used at my college. It’s not “anti-democratic.” Student Reps are elected and then fund student organizations from student activity fees. How is that undemocratic? It may not align with your anarchist principles but it is a democratic process, with the added feature that students objecting to PIRGS can get refunds of the portion of their fees that go to PIRGS, with just a little effort.
If it was as you describe it, it wouldn’t have been “un-democratic.”
It was not, however, as you describe it.
“It was not, however, as you describe it.”
I witnessed it firsthand at my university. Even your linked article concurs.
“Once a college approves, all students are automatically billed a few dollars out of their student fees to support the local PIRG. To avoid paying, students must make a special trip to the Registrar and fill out a form so they can get their $2-6 back.”
The vast majority of colleges “approve” funding of student groups through democratically elected student governments.
So what part of that is not “how I describe it?”
Would you consider it “democratic” for college students to be assessed a mandatory fee for support of, say, a MAGA organization? Or is it only “democratic” if you approve of the causes students get forced to financially support?
"Would you consider it "democratic" for college students to be assessed a mandatory fee for support of, say, a MAGA organization?"
Yes, if it followed the process outlined above, voted on by elected student reps and allowing a refund when requested,
So no comment about why you censored my comments?
Is unaccountable censorship the libertarian way?
This is an anti-war site, not a libertarian site.
“The Jews I don’t like aren’t really the Jews” thing violates the site’s guidelines. Unlike some others, that’s not a judgment call I made, it’s one that was handed down to me.
This is an anti-war site, not a libertarian site.
“The Jews I don’t like aren’t really the Jews” thing violates the site’s guidelines. Unlike some others, that’s not a judgment call I made, it’s one that was handed down to me.
“”The Jews I don’t like aren’t really the Jews”
I wrote nothing of the sort.
Hello, Thomas, I see you haven’t changed a bit! 😁
I really couldn’t give a rat’s ass about where Nader sleeps. I care that HE cared about the safety of the Amerikkkan people.
Maybe he did care about that. Maybe not. He at least found it profitable to pretend he did.
Guess you didn't like Giraldi's article re. congress and Israel. It's all over the web, but not here. Too bad. He's a good objective reporter and analyst.
“Children live what they learn”…
Just posted a new Substack explaining why I haven't been here for a while – and won't be here going forwaed:
What's Going On?
Wherein I rant a bit and then preview upcoming topics…
https://richardstevenhack.substack.com/p/whats-going-on
tl;dr; I'm just disgusted with events in both Ukraine and the Middle East. Too much incompetence and cowardice on the part of the so-called "Axis of Resistance."
In short, the Middle East war has been lost. It's over. Stick a fork in it. It's done.
Come on man are you that weak? The people enduring a genocide –and I mean the people of Gaza haven't given up, and your going to give up? Stop this. And I went over your article. I agree with some and disagree with some. Thanks for the read.
Life Goes On…! And so the wars in West Asia and East Europe…!
These numbers are over 6 months old, and the killing has only increased to higher rates in that time.
If we include those killed by enforced neglect, or under collapsed buildings, the dead must be nearing a quarter million, fully 1/8 of pre-attack Palestinian population. This is truly a Warsaw Ghetto level of mass murder.
Hard to be respectful when there is a genocide going on & our leaders instead of trying to stop it send 2000 & 5000 pound bombs to drop on the innocent residents of Gaza who are 70% woomen and kids under 18 years of age!!!!!!!!! I wold show respect for them by throwing feces in their faces. Respect is earned $ also lost. Please do not imply those doing genocide, aiding genocide or condoning by closing their eyes or averting their attention from this genocide!!!!!!These war criminals involved in this genocide should get our profound disrespect which we should shout in disdain of their illegal & immoral lack of humanity!!!i