Russian President Vladimir Putin said Thursday that Russia fired a new hypersonic ballistic missile at a Ukrainian military factory in Dnipro in response to US and British long-range missiles being fired into Russian territory.
“There was, among other things, a combat-conditions test of one of Russia’s newest intermediate-range missile systems. In this case it was a ballistic missile in a non-nuclear hypersonic version,” Putin said, according to TASS.
The missile, codenamed Oreshnik, would have been banned under the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty, which the US withdrew from in 2019. “We believe that the United States made a mistake by unilaterally destroying the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty in 2019 under a far-fetched pretext,” Putin said.
Ukrainian officials initially claimed Russia fired an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile (ICBM) into Dnipro, but that was quickly contradicted by US and other Western officials. The Pentagon later said the new missile was based on Russia’s Rubezh ICBM model and that Russia notified the US before the launch, which was confirmed by the Kremlin.
Russia’s use of its new missile came after Ukraine launched US ATACMS and British Storm Shadow missiles into Russian territory. The escalation came after President Biden authorized Ukraine to use the longer-range missiles, which require direct NATO support to be fired. Biden took the step despite clear warnings from Russia that the escalation would risk nuclear war and World War III.
Putin said the ATACMS attack did not result in any serious damage, but the Storm Shadows attack hit a military command point, resulting in deaths and injuries. He warned the NATO-supported strikes could turn the Ukraine war into a “global” conflict.
“We consider ourselves entitled to use our weapons against the military facilities of those countries that allow their weapons to be used against our facilities,” Putin said. “If anyone else doubts this, then they are wrong – there will always be a response.”
In response to Biden authorizing the long-range strikes on Russian territory, Putin formally changed Russia’s nuclear doctrine, which now considers an attack by a non-nuclear armed state that’s supported by a nuclear-armed power as a joint attack. The doctrine allows the use of nuclear weapons in response to a conventional attack against Russia or Belarus if it is deemed a critical threat to Russia’s sovereignty.
We're all along for the ride!
Do we get our money for nothing and the tricks are free?!
;-}
That's "chicks for free" Donna.
Scott Ritter discusses this development today on Judge Nap's show. He's calm and easy to listen to starting about minute 14. His comments also suggest Biden should be removed from the presidency immediately.
Well, Scott needs to read Putin's statement.
Putin explicitly said that such weapons as the Oreshnik could be used on countries who allow their weapons to be used against Russia, after warning the civilians living there. This also implies that these weapons are useful as "decapitation weapons", as in, decapitating Zelensky and the CIA in Kiev.
However, Putin also said that the Russian response would be "in a mirror image."
Which means Putin explicitly said, "No, Scott Ritter, Russia will NOT initiate a nuclear attack on the US over a few ATACMS."
Putin also explicitly said that the reason for deploying this new missile was because the US left the Intermediate weapons treaty and then deployed such weapons "in Europe" – which is an oblique reference to the Aegis Ashore installations in Poland and Romania – which I reiterate is why the SMO was launched.
I did not get the impression Ritter said Russia would initiate an attack on the US, although he did speak about the "regiments" of missiles possible should the US start such an exchange. He also emphasized US policy based on the notion Putin is bluffing, which Ritter says he is not. I was impressed by the power of nuclear weapons now vs. in WW2.
That's very interesting your view of why the SMO was launched, could you explain further? I was under the impression the SMO was a response to appeals for protection from the eastern oblasts getting sudden, increased amounts of bombardment from the Kiev regime.
Nope. All those conditions Putin discussed in his speech announcing the SMO are merely the preconditions for achieving Russia's real objective: countering NATO on the border of Poland and Romania (as well as further north against Sweden and Finland.)
That requires puting a Military District on those borders (which Russia is doing further north of Belarus as well as incorporating Belarus into the planning.) This will include AD systems capable of intercepting NATO missiles in boost phase rather than terminal phase over Moscow. It is also likely to include half a million men, 1,500 tanks, airbases with MiG-31Ks with Kinzhal missiles, and a naval base in Odessa.
Russia is essentially creating an "Iron Curtain 2.0" from the Black Sea to the Arctic to insure that the West can never again approach Russia's main borders.
Thank you (and everyone in this thread) for the discussion.
That was the casus belli but the real issue was all the time the threat of NATOizing Ukraine, which would put NATO a day's ride from the Kremlin (just measure the distance from Sumy to Moscow or remember how Wagner marched from Donbass to Moscow almost unopposed in just few hours). The US equivalent would be having hostile military in the Carolinas.
I disagree with Russia wanting a "military district" in West Ukraine, they'd be content with a perpetually neutral semi-demilitarized and Ukraine, but one in which the NATOist (largely nazi) deep state has been radically purged (regime change).
So, a mirrored response to the US and Great Britain attacking Russia with missiles would be a attack on the USA or Great Britain or US/NATO forces in Europe. This would lead to WW 3. That would go nuclear.
Comments by the Pentagon have further inflamed this scenario with those people claiming the US would win a nuclear exchange with Russia. The only that would be possible would be with a first strike nuclear attack on Russia along with a decapitation strike on Russian leadership. And THAT is exactly what the Russians are going to be thinking.
The Russians have developed a dead hand response to a first strike decapitation of their leadership. If this dead hand system detects a certain level of radiation in Russia and doesn't receive a response in a certain amount of time from the leaders in Russia then it will automatically strike and destroy every major metropolitan area in the west. We all lose because we all die.
No — a mirrored response would be a direct response to the forces that attacked Russia. For now, that means attacks on US assets in Ukraine that are involved in the attacks on Russia. If F-16s are launched from Poland, that might include those airfields.
If the US or NATO countries directly attacked Russia from outside Ukraine, Russia will hit those military assets in those countries which are directly involved.
In fact, this pretty much implies either aircraft or missiles, since NATO has no ability to hit Russia from NATO territory – except those Aegis Ashore installations in Poland and Romania. I suspect this order by Putin is particularly directed against those facilities.
If the US or NATO decides to declare war on Russia in that event, then and only then will Russia expand the conflict.
Not to mention that until nukes are used, Russia has no need to use nukes, since their hypersonic weapons are more than capable of taking out command and control centers in the West without using nukes and their AD can take out NATO aircraft and missiles.
The bottom line: Putin is not going to start a nuclear WWIII over a limited attack – unless the US and NATO does. As you correctly state, some morons in the US think they could win that. A number of people in the Pentagon probably understand otherwise, if not the top generals.
Everything else is hyperbole. This is not to deny there is a risk of WWIII. It is to point out that now isn't the time to panic. And being hyperbolic like Ritter is no help.
That's an interesting assessment of a hypothetical conventional war. However I find it unlikely that:
1. NATO has no other conventional missile capabilities than just those AEGIS you mention. I remember how Reagan brought intermediate range ballistic missiles to Europe and know that the Cuban missiles crisis was caused by the USA deploying similar weapons to Turkey. I'm pretty sure those are still capable. Also the USA has recently deployed stratobombers to Europe and the Middle East. European countries should have also relevant missile and air force capabilities of their own (we're talking serious 2nd tier powers here: France, Britain, Germany, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Poland, etc.)
2. Nukes won't be used. The USA has always favored first strike nuclear war theory (extremely dangerous if you ask me), so I'd expect nuclear escalation to happen and happen very fast. There's no way that outright WW3 will remain contained to conventional weapons, not for long anyhow.
So, under your premise Russia would only attack NATO forces in Ukraine even if NATO forces were attacking old Russia FROM Ukraine? That's not what Putin said.
"….since NATO has no ability to hit Russia from NATO territory – except those Aegis Ashore installations in Poland and Romania.". ….. Nonsense. NATO can strike Russia from Poland, East Germany, Romania and Bulgaria using fighter bombers launched from airfields in those countries. Add in Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Norway, Sweden and Finland.
You also seem to think that as long as any attack on Russia is staged through Ukraine, Russia would only those forces in Ukraine. So, for example, Poland could run 10 divisions through Ukraine and attack Russia and Russia would not strike Polish territory. I don't think so.
I'm thinking Russia will give the Trump administration benefit
First strike would only bring MAD (mutual assured destruction). Russia has an even larger nuclear arsenal than the USA, both have enough to render Earth into a nuclear desert. There's no way the USA or Europe could survive that, probably nobody on Earth could.
I've recently discovered a telegram channel called Translated Russian News. You might want to check it out if you haven't already. I'm enjoying it. Several years ago you told me about smoothie and moa and several other places that I still visit, so I want to return the favor.
It doesn't really matter: any attack by Russia on a NATO member state will trigger article 5 and thus outright WW3. It's a practical impossibility that WW3 would not rapidly escalate into total nuclear war and thus the feared Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) scenario. It would also plunge all Earth into nuclear winter and a pervasive radioactive atmosphere. It's very unlikely that Humanity could survive that, and, even if it could, the result would be the worst catastrophe ever since the meteorite that killed the dinosaurs.
"Biden should be removed from the presidency immediately"
There are no reasons to believe that Harris can influence the decision making process any more than Biden. Probably, even less. Particular in what does concern Ukrainian war. Trump can do it a bit differently but not much. It looks, Trump is reluctant to escalate NATO-Russia war in Ukraine. At least, let's hope, he will not even think about using nukes or intercontinental ballistic missiles first, and that is the most important moment.
Yeah, per the 25th Ammendment, section 4, more than half of the cabinet plus the Vice President, would need to vote for the removal of Biden. That's a practical impossibility.
Yes. I think Ritter is pointing to the obscenity of a lame duck president continuing policy that has been clearly rejected via the recent election.
Pedophile Scott Ritter.
A could be qualified podcaster with zero character.
Well, keep your teenage daughters away from him.
But believe his pro Russia invasion drunk/drugged analyses.
Ritter's analyses are not drunk/drugged, and I think the last thing we need for intelligent discussion is smear and hatred, as you offer here.
All you obtain in this site is smear and hatred, as you too offer here.
Recognizing smear and hatred is not the same as using it. Let's reason together instead of all this hysteria.
Don't bring reasoning to this blog.
There's none.
There's only those who support Putin and other dictators around the world and a few who support Ukraine.
For some obvious reason, the pro Russian site have Russia, the invader, as the victim.
It's funny until is not. Rather sick if you ask me.
You're either being disingenuous, or you really don't know very much.
I disagree. There's a lot of information and consideration of views as people here attempt to understand and evaluate what's going on, plus (admittedly a remote likelihood) to guide it to a better outcome favoring peace and reasonable viewpoints. This is difficult and doesn't automatically indicate bias other than attempting to be reasonable. You need to study the issues much further to be taken seriously. Here's a tip: leading your comments with name-calling and smear is an automatic signal that propaganda is on its way–and it won't fly in a forum like this. Try starting with facts and argument based on these instead of bombast.
You must not have received the news, but we in the West, Americans in particular are fine with invasions. Hell, the US is not only fine with it, they support it with enthusiasm. Carry it out whenever it is deemed expedient. Fine with genocide too and help it carry out in every way possible. Not much of an objectionable issue for you either it seems.
So for any Westerner, American or European, to claim a moral highground to stand on doesn't even rise to being comical. It is just tragically imbecilic. That curtain has dropped forever, the play is over.
No one is twisting your arm to be on this site.
From reading your comments, you started with the smearing and hatred. I dare say you do make yourself quite noticeable.
You went too far. Blocked.
I'd rather keep paid NATO trolls at arm's length, thank you.
So, we must be in the escalate to de-escalate phase. That must mean we're getting closer to Putin making a "let's negotiate" call.
Lavrov said that the USA was not agreement-capable, just like Israel.
Yes. The "let's negotiate" call was sarcasm. We were told that strikes deep inside Russia would bring them to the negotiating table.
Should Putin pull his troops out of Ukraine?
I mean, It is his entire army inside?
Shouldn't we be asking for Putin to leave?
Why do we have to let Putin take anything it wants?
No need to answer. Everyone here wants to see Putin win his personal war.
I want Putin to pull his troops out of Ukraine.
I want Ukraine neutrality.
I want the US to close its 800 to 1000 bases it has worldwide.
I want a military budget of $200 billion or less.
I want Israel to stop its genocide on Gaza.
I want the Palestinians to have a viable separate state.
I want NATO to dissolve.
I want Dick Cheney to die.
I want to be young again.
I want idiots to quit frequenting the comment section at antiwar.com
404 "complained". So what. Who on earth believes 404, the US gov't or any of the MSM from the US, GB, and Europe as the truth/balanced reporting is a scarce commodity in these geographic locations.
Problem is, just like Israel, the USA doesn't negotiate in good faith. We gave that up when neocons took over our Department of State.
I think we gave that up around 1785. Ask an Indian, if you can locate one near you.
Demonstration event with 36 inert warheads with 6 waves of 6 warheads that could be nuclear or conventional. Notice the speed of these warheads from the Mach 10 ICBM.
Interesting from a gas station masquerading as a country that has only shovels to fight with.
Yes, the video was impressive seeing the waves of ordnance impacting. Believe it was a Ukrainian CCTV source.
Another follower of Dima's channel? I do too but I have a selection of several war reporters and not just this one.
Anyhow the "shovels" meme was something that emerged from one of Prigozhin's protests against Shoigu during the battle of Bakhmut: he complained that supplies were not arriving to the battlefront, including scarcity of the humble shovels needed to dig trenches. There were serious problems under Shoigu's management, that's very clear.
Yes, I comb multiple channels on multiple feeds daily.
Not one of me news feeds comes from mainstream news media.
However, The Sun did publish a valid video.
https://www.youtube.com/wat…
Putin's statement on the Oreshnik missile.
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/75623 Meeting with the Defence Ministry leadership, representatives of the military-industrial complex and missile system developers (Putin: "Russia’s newest medium-range missile system. This is our, your system, which you have named Oreshnik, a ballistic missile with a non-nuclear hypersonic capability.")
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/11/21/russia-fired-hypersonic-missile-at-ukraine-in-response-to-western-long-range-missiles-putin-says-a87095
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/nato-and-ukraine-to-hold-emergency-talks-after-russias-attack-with-new-hypersonic-missile
"Storm Shadows attack hit a military command point"
No, it didn't. Putin said the command point suffered no damage and carrying on it's usual work. Some military guards on the periferia of the command point ware hit and killed.
As we could watch on a video, 6 war heads hit targets in Dnipro industrial area. As Putin confirmed, Oreshnik missile, which was used in this attack, has multiple warheads. It was a test of a new medium-range ballistic missile with speed about 10 000 km/hour.
NATO has no defense against Russian hypersonic missiles.
It did, Mikha It did.
Now go back and reflect on your daily lies.
You are supposed to be religions yet, you are one of the most dishonest posters here.
You are so religious that you now turned Stalin into a religious figure in Russia. That is another level of crazy.
Your society is getting sick.
Find the truth within yourself, stop the lies. Your god knows when you are dishonest.
Are you Ukrainian neo-Nazi or one of those American neocon fans? Just curious.
She's probably Victoria Nuland under a pseudonym. ^^
I think she is merely bombastic…
I think she is terrified.
I support Ukraine independence.
And yes, to you Russians, that makes me both, a Neo nazis and a neocon because that is the your standard absurd response.
Your denazification adventure is slowly destroying your country.
If only you didn't invade, everything would be so much better but unfortunately, it will not end well for Russia. I'm laughing at your desperate comments here.
Do yourself a favor a stop the Neo nazi BS.
Deal with your growing domestic Neo nazi problem first.
Stop lying to yourself too. That will help.
You are reading the mind of gods now? That must bring your epistomological discerning powers close to omniscience then. So it must be no problem at all for you to present the conclusive evidence about this hit or near-hit or near-miss or whatever. Please do a Vulcan mindmelt of sorts with our Heavenly Father and reveal to us the ultimate truth.
Maybe, Russia also said to have downed two other SS missiles. Russia tends to be honest, when they speak at all, but remember that "in war the first victim is truth".
This is all about Biden's "smooth transition", milking the MIC after leaving office.
I don't think the MIC is ready for WW3: they're not keeping up to the production demands, they may be signing contracts for hyper-expensive and useless weaponry "to be delivered" later in the future but in war what matters is efficiency and the US MIC has clearly fallen behind in all aspects and can't even produce enough ammo for their current proxy wars' needs, let alone real WW3.
They don't want to win wars they want never ending wars [which makes them very rich and powerful]
The new Russian missiles system is a game changer, their military supremacy is unquestionable at this point in time.
Now it all depends if they will use this to their advantage or if they're going to allow the West to build up their arsenals once again which means that they will lose the advantage we will return to the exact same point.
The Russians could take out any one of their enemies and they wouldn't even know it till the last couple of seconds, and they haven't…..yet.
I’m not so sure about that: what you say is true-ish only in terms monetary but money is not a real thing, just a mirror of the real economy, maybe grease for the better functioning of the real economy, but what really matters in the end is the real economy (and Russia masterfully demonstrated that in 2022, enforcing their real economic power and defeating sanctions with careful financial tinkering by Nabiullina but ultimately relying on materialistic might, not mere finances). So what you say works only short term and in the context of “controlled” wars, i.e. those that pose no real risk of escalation and do not devastate large segments of the real economy, large wars on the other hand are costly: they destroy production, markets… the overall economy and need great effort to repair afterwards. I’m thinking in conventional wars, of course, like WW2, a nuclear war would be a catastrophe of unconceivable dimension, nothing Humanity can overcome at least in many many centuries (less horrible case scenario).
I concur that the hypersonic missiles developed not only by Russia but actually by many Eurasian actors, from mighty China to humble Yemen (Sana’a), are game changers. And it’s surprising that the USA and NATO have remained behind in that tech, really: a clear sign of weakness and decadence.
It's not only surprising it's also suspicious.
My suspicion is that the USA, especially the MIC, has become extremely inefficient because of internal "Yelstin-like" politics of selling the state and the empire itself to private corporations.
Privatizing state owned assets is pure NeoLiberalism.
However far as the Neocons are concerned it doesn't look like PNAC is dead but ongoing which raises my suspicious that it might be related to greater Israel and the Genocide.
Who profits?
Neoliberalism is nothing but back to the Robber Barons. There was a reason why the state took control and the USSR was not the only reason. Without state control the capitalist regime can’t but self-destroy. But the problem is of course how and for how long can a state reign over the oligarchs, their boundless greed and their absurd “economic theory”. Apparently it can’t, not without eradicating such parasites.
Not sure what PNAC is but the Middle East war, which is escalating as we speak, is the US Empire fighting for the very basis of its Empire and financier privilege. It’s not exactly about Israel, even if related as key delegation of the USA in the region and because of the plan to build a Gaza-Eilat canal under Zionist control, it is about consolidating CENTCOM as US province and fighting against Russian and Chinese influence in the region.
I'm taken aback that you don't know about PNAC.
PNAC, Project for a new American Century, a pet project by Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz…think Deeper government, and ultimately, the connection to forced regime changes and trade deals.
It's crucial to understand the PNAC objective and how it fits into the greater game being played, so to me it isn't dead while greater Israel is an attempt to counter the BRICS.
Click on the link and select an article.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/?s=pnac&x=12&y=16
I wasn’t familiar with the acronym but, regardless, don’t you think that Chossudovsky’s insistence on such old document (which clearly refers to the height of US power and the plot to invade Afghanistan and Iraq, maybe extending into the later de-stabilization of Syria an Libya, already more than a decade-old affairs) apply today, when the USA is clearly much weaker and alternative powers have become quite daring (and are superior to the USA in some key technologies and also have generally the moral superiority, which is IMO half of victory in any war)? I think that the plan is pretty much obsolete and at best US Imperial leadership have it as very generic reference, there must be updated plans, not necessarily better but something that at least reckons that the USA was soundly defeated in Afghanistan and Yemen, that it is being soundly defeated in Ukraine and that it risks imminent major defeat in the Middle East, and also that it has not been able or willing to keep at pace with military developments, right?
Or maybe not, maybe they just live in a bubble of old stories about old glory and what could have been but wasn’t. Well, reminds me of the history of Spain under the Habsburgs and how they squandered everything in endless wars that ended badly.
In any case, in hindsight, it seems like a mediocre plan at best.
The spirit of PNAC seems to live on versus its old plans, in terms of a strong neocon movement surfacing back then and continuing (so its current neocon fanaticism is the real problem; and that could extend as far back as 1953 or even earlier). The Ukraine proxy project appears to be a more recent development of how to continue those earlier notions of "full spectrum dominance" also popular at that time when the Soviet Union collapsed. Also suggested by this neocon plotting is the use of Israel as a proxy to dominate the middle east but that may be in danger of total collapse especially given the possibility Trump will be sucked into a war against Iran.
It may live “in spirit”, I can agree to that much, but as plan is already dead.
On the other side I don’t understand the “neocon” obsession. To me all relevant factions in US politics (the so-called neocons, the so-called liberals and the so-called libertarians) are almost identical: imperialist, warmongering, ultra-capitalist and Zionist. If anything they could disagree on Ukraine/Russia but even in that it’s a mere matter of degree, not fundamental. This is particularly true since everyone assumed the anti-China focus spearheaded by Trump.
Full spectrum dominance is not anymore real: the rag-tag “Houthis” have proven that the US naval strategy is a complete failure where it matters (the choke points or “narrow seas” of classical Mahan’s geostrategy). Jonathan Swift’s Laputa flying island (an allegory of Anglo thalassocracy and “gunboat diplomacy”, older than the USA itself) has found its match in modern missile and drone warfare. It’s like the US Empire has been amputated (and also suffers from an internal cancer of “Yelstinism”, i.e. selling off the state to the oligarchs).
Geopolitical events don’t just happen on the spur of the moment – They are the result of long term planning they are also multigenerational – downplaying the significance of PNAC as some old document is revealing something – indeed it must be old for some people however from what you’re suggesting you do not recognize it’s objectives in todays geopolitical arena.
Take the illegal Balfour declaration from 1917 for example, who would have thought that it might come in handy much later on – It was the result of long term planning which first of all required the first world war and the overthrow of the Ottoman empire.
All wars are bankers wars.
I have much faith in Chaos Theory and thus believe that things often tend to spiral out of control, geopolitical events too. Just think how WW1 began and also how it ended in the midst of revolutions nobody really planned for. Or think how the USA entered WW2 with the aim of adding China to their geopolitical sphere (and thus went to war against Japan) and ended without China (which had experienced a revolution and turned to the USSR camp) but with the wealthiest half of Europe instead (including the rather unexpected French colonies that would lead to Vietnam, etc.)
As they say: “the best plans collapse upon contact with the enemy”, any leader(ship) should always be reconsidering previous plans and adapting to the circumstances. And most of the time they do.
It’s not like what you say is not somewhat correct-ish: there is legacy of previous plans and actions but either the leadership keeps analyzing and updating (or scrapping) old plans, of they become totally useless. Definitely the PNAC you mentioned needed update upon the Arab Spring and even more so after the defeats in Afghanistan, Ukraine, the Sahel and now also the Middle East (the rumors of truce talks between Hizbollah and Israel imply that Israel has lost and is trying to get a deal before it’s too late).
Balfour declaration persisted because the Muslim World was very weak and semi-colonial already in those days and has taken a whole century to recover to some extent. Only now there are Muslim antagonists that can truly defeat Western imperialism. But this was known since the 2006 war, which was brushed under the rug but was clearly won by Hizbollah. That’s almost two decades ago and can be seen as the first defeat of the US Empire in the region.
One thing that is very disturbing about US imperialist thinking is that they never admit defeat, not in Korea in the 50s, not in Vietnam in the 70s, etc. Well, Vietnam did cause some brief reckoning but lessons were not really learned. It’s as if, by just eradicating (in appearance only) the communist challenge, they could go around stomping on everyone, including their own allies like Saddam, the Saudis or the Talibans. And now you have that senator threatening to invade the Netherlands, go figure!
It’s bad planning, bad geostrategy, bad statesmanship.
I think the main goal here is to force Trump's hand, or as The Hill puts it, force Trump to be the president who lost WW3. Still, that's a very bumpy "smooth transition".
Pffft, more like "Smooth Criminal".
Tho we lack evidence that Biden ever paid some kid's parents US$800,000 to hush up what happened at Neverland White House.
The MIC got milked last year. Shooting blanks now.
For every action there is a reaction…!
Sound logic netman, as per usual!
https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2024/11/nima-and-yours-truly_21.html#disqus_thread
The ultimate in psych op magnanimity regarding strikes on Polish targets housing US missiles. The Russians could choose one to five NATO bases in a given day over a week or two. They may communicate a 5-minute warning to evacuate the base or region.
What message does that convey to European capitals? BRICS and Global South members might be ecstatic.
Any such hypothetical attacks would trigger article 5 of NATO (mutual defense rally), so I strongly doubt Russia will do it, not before Trump is in office anyhow, unless pressed very very hard.
Putin sure is cool headed beyond compare with the weapons to prevail. We have the Neocons, Nuland Clinton Piatt to thank for this dangerous debacle & especially Biden. They are always on the make but just don't have the tools to pull anything off but their own demise, and unfortunately OURS!!!!!!
Britain is in the crosshairs now (as it was a British missile the one used by Ukraine) but the USA is as well (as it has explictly allowed ATACMS to be used against Russia). If Russia strikes it will activate NATO's article 5 (mutual defense rally), involving all Europe and North America. Some like Turkey, Hungary or Slovakia may try to drag their feet but most (from Finland to Spain, from Britain to Greece) will surely do whatever Uncle Sam commands.
Scary!
The problem is that USA will command but will not participate.
To launch ATACMS, US personnel is needed.
Feels like the beginning of blame game. Example, Germany. Population has turned against Ukraine, Greens being most exposed, losing badly in local elections. But suddenly Christian Demcrats leader is hawkish on Russia knowing it is not popular. Why?
To establish credentials of Germany not dragging feet and cannot be blamed for US change of policy. Baltics and Finland are taking cues from Germany ultimately no matter how ardently they brandish their pro-US credentials.
Italy, Greece Spain and Portugal will not go along. France has government not reflecting election will. And is vascilating betwern unrealistic “European position” or facing being ordered about by either UK or Germany. Macron is indecisive.
And all European countries know that Russia is no danger to them, and are nervous about provocation comming chiefly from US and UK.
Both trying to lead from behind with little risk to either. Germany and Poland are preferred next cannon fodder.
It will not shock me that Trump is behind this escallation. His anti-stupid war credentials are at stake, but if Biden creates a crisis — he will be pittied for “inheritting the mess”.
Trump has clung onto the idea of enticing Russia to ditch China for too long. With such deal not possible, he needs Europe, under UK tutelage, to continue presure on Russia, and blame Europe when war ends on Russia’s terms.
Trump really does not have strong options in Ukraine.
Because we live in the illusion of democracy while all resorts of power are in the hands of a small elite, what means that people gets brainwashed by their media and politicians bought by their bribes (or also sometimes forced by means of coertion, maybe even murder as nearly happened to PM Fico of Slovakia). Anyway, Scholz was vice-chancellor of Merkel, what underlines how little choice there is… unless you’re willing to vote for someone like Wagenknecht, what most people won’t because they’re utterly brainwashed on the limits of what is possible or desirable.
Spain and Italy will go along, maybe reluctantly but they will obey what Uncle Sam commands, their leaders are very much within the NATO Regime, one in the pragmatic center-left, the other in the also pragmatic far right, and their countries are also well controlled by Gladio, the secret backbone of NATO. Anyway, NATO will go to war as a whole, the only doubts are Hungary, Slovakia and Turkey, all of which have some sort of “pro-Russian” leaning. NATO is after all only the most important management branch of the US Empire.
The people who know about these type of capabilities, they know who the big boys in the neighborhood are. They also know who is the one you don't f around with.
Putin broke that rule in an effort to make a desperate statement. A statement that has zero traction among the key superpowers.
That message was not for the West. It was a stunt that it won't stop Ukraine from using long range weapons.
Should the West send Putin a tiny response now? Hmm, oh yeah, that happened a few weeks ago with Israel flying attack sorties uncontested over Iran.
Did Iran ever respond? No, and they won't.
What Putin really needs to do before he gets a coup, he needs to stop spending his GDP on a pointless war and start paying pensions and getting the economy back into 'not good' because that boat sailed, but back into a
'really bad' economy cause right now, it is at its boiling point.
Dictator Putin is on his way down.
Ukraine doesn't have the missiles you refer to. Those belong to the USA, France and Great Britain. They are NOT under Ukrainian control. They are programmed by US, British and French contractors. The intelligence for their use comes from the US. The targeting and flight control comes from US satellites.
As far as the Russian economy? That economy is doing rather well. Using the PPP measurement as reported by the World Bank and the IMF, Russia just passed Germany and Japan to become the worlds 4th largest economy after China, the USA and India. Ukraine had the opportunity to be neutral and benefit from both Russia and the EU. The EU wasn't going to allow that so Ukraine lost that chance. Then the US arranged a coup to install a regime to damage Russian interests using Ukrainians as cannon fodder.
The West cares nothing about the Ukrainian people. Heck, most of the rulers of Western countries care nothing about their OWN people. That fact and the fact that those rulers are incompetent is causing a decline in the West.
No point telling her this. She is completely blind to the facts.
I have the feeling this article will be archived very soon. It does not help the Russian side.
Go ahead and blame the West for all this.
Not Russia with its entire army inside Ukraine, not Russia killing Ukrainians and taking their land, not Russia making nuclear threats, not Russia shooting ballistic missiles to a poor country that is fighting back and kicking its ass.
Yes, blame the West and never ever Putin/Russia. Go ahead, continue supporting the dictator's nazi behavior then call us the nazis and warmongers.
This is a carbon copy of RT news and TASS.
Ignore the truth of what caused all this mess in 2014 with illegal coup that ousted a.democratically elected leader, the continued onslaught of Russian speakers in the Donbass via Azov Neo Nazi units in the Ukrainian military.
The broken promises of NATO expansionism.
The list is endless but an ignorant idiot like you think it's all unprovoked.
I don't need to ignore it. I lived it, and our version of what happened is different than the Russian propaganda one. Way different because we lived it.
Don't lecture me on what the Russian empire has done to Ukraine.
Shove your BS NATO empansionism. The reason the Baltics are still countries is because they joined NATO.
Call me idiot all you want and I'd say you are a Russian employee.
Ok you live in your cocoon of ignorance.
The reason the Baltics are still countries is because they joined NATO.
There isn't a country in NATO, including the US, that would risk nuclear war to come to the defense of one of those little pissants. Article 5 doesn't guarantee that. So, obviously the Baltics were in no danger before they joined NATO.
That is a very ignorant statement you just made. You obviously have no clue as to what you just wrote.
I really shouldn't have said there isn't a country in NATO that would come to the defense of any Baltic country, but I would imagine the vast majority wouldn't risk WW3, including the US. So, I stand by what I said.
And You should stand by it because you are very wrong.
Please be more specific. Tell me the US would risk nuclear war over Estonia.
NATO was formed specifically to oppose the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact nations. After the collapse of the USSR there was no longer any reason for NATO to exist. It should have dissolved.
And Russia, by the way, is not an empire. In sharp contrast to the USA, a global empire since the Spanish-American War, which pretends to export democracy.
The problem is, there are too many of such ignorant idiots both in North America and Europe. A lot of people are brainwashed to such a point that they can't think logically.
You have such a beautiful name! Wish you had a brain to go with it but much of what we get from you is empty vitriol!
I'm sure the brain comments come as a result of my support for Ukraine.
Sorry I'm not here to support your Russian crusade.
Russian supporters are hurting really bad. The war isn't going according to plans anymore.
Edit: I don't think your brain goes with your name either. You are just another antiWest cheerleader here.
Keep it up. Hopefully, Putin wins and you may get a job offer making coffee in the Kremlin.
It's Ukraine with the Nazi symbols & dreams. Putin only asked them to be neutral & not join NATO. & ditch the Neocon Full Spectrum Dominance crew. No one wants to be dominated, especially by Nazis who provide the military might of the fight. It's almost over!!! Ukraine has squandered its young men and its soul to try to re- do WWII but it's hard to win a war with a superpower with welfare arms & slogans!!!
Putin only asked….
You have no idea what you are talking about, now you are interpreting what Putin clearly said.
Russia has a domestic Nazi problem, try to solve that problem before you go invading other countries over Neo nazi made up excuses.
And…the response of most readers in the NYT to this Russian response to NATO's missile escalation is that Russia is bluffing, that Russia is escalating the war (!) out of desperation, and that Russia in general is on the brink of collapse.
All of which demonstrates the amazing power of a propaganda system when it is disguised as a free press and broadcast nation-wide through all possible media channels, over and over. Congratulations, USA! You have brainwashed yourself into complete craziness.
However, there are indication that market consequences must be paid. MSNBC is being cut lose by the parenr, and NBC is desparately trying to disconnect itself from MSNBC. Once they go “independent” without resources now available, they will perish.
All “mainstream” is losing readership, and money. Many readers of “mainstream” , or should we call it “legacy” — are self-selecting individuals that need the comfort of trusting institutions. They want to believe in status quo, not comfortabl living outside of matrix. And for some people it is for the best. Ignorance is bliss.
As Byron put it, those who know the most must suffer the deepest. The tree of knowledge is not the tree of life.
Unfortunately, that comfy center just cannot hold. NY Times illusion cannot change it. Even Trump himself is probably not aware what proppeled him into the office,
A bit off-topic perhaps but I cannot resist your invitation:
The tree of knowledge is not the tree of life.
Or, possibly, there is one tree:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fc66d632414864e311d8c1336a8547bce5fbb5f25450fecce8e160542edf10ed.jpg
And two ways to experience it.
One, moving outward from divine union before birth into the duality of living existence after birth (= exit from the garden). The duality coming from our need to distinguish good from bad in order to survive in a material world.
Another, moving inward and transcending the duality of our everyday existence, reaffirming our spiritual nature. As through the ritual of communion in traditional Christianity.
Rediscovering (if temporarily) divine union through a direct experience of non-duality. And that is a common theme in reports of religious experience (= mystical or spiritual experience), which occur widely and across all religious and non-religious traditions, in believers, agnostics, and atheists alike.
I'm sure the U.S. never dreamed that it could fall so fsr behind in missile technology!!!!!! Just goes to illustrate another example of grossly underestimating ones adversariy & enemies!!!!!! It is all beneath contempt the way the U.S. screwed up thinking they would weaken Russia by fomenting a a war that NOW makes U.S. look so weak & stupid!!
The USA has totally ignored its own weaponry shortcomings: they're running out of ammo as we speak and yet want to trigger WW3. Only the craziest madmen would try something like that, really!
"…Russia notified the US before the launch, which was confirmed by the Kremlin."
Noteworthy consideration and restraint by the Russian Federation. Anyone this polite in a war is dangerous, indeed…!
Roughly 30 minutes might have been enough to tell occupants to get out of the building.
If the missile cannot be intercepted, such a gesture would have been at no cost to Moscow.
My interpretation was that the RF informed the Americans that their launch was not a nuclear one. The way both sides in O.G. Cold War 1 informed the other of space launches (satellites, Apollo / Soyuz) so they wouldn’t be mistaken for first-strike ICBM’s.
In the present instance it at least shows the RF is aware of hair-trigger tensions.
Correct. Putin did point this out. They will provide warnings every time in the future as military objectives are not in jeopardy.
Yes, they better inform the Americans because they know their PR stunt would cause Putin his end.
FAFO.
Americans don't need to publish their nuclear doctrine nor send warnings.
They will just annihilate you when you get stupid.
Please remind that to your Russian handlers.
Remember, it’s a 2-way street. And, the US do and will advise the RF of all launches that may be mistaken as early strike.
Almond, I’m Canadian. Demonstrate conclusively to everyone that I’m a “Russian agent”, or continue doing so absent any evidence of it and I’ll begin openly and frequently calling you a liar. Which I will know conclusively, and everyone else will soon easily infer for themselves.
And Almond, please stop displaying your ignorance. The Russian Federation informed the Americans with the intent to prevent an accidental nuclear war should the US or NATO have interpreted an ICBM launch as a first-strike.
If the Americans are so wantonly abd recklessly destructive as you suggest, why should anyone side with them ? Except out of abject fear ?
We seem to be in a moment of a ‘cause and effect’, unilaterally speaking. Quid pro quo…
A must view analysis by Professsor Ted Postol:
Russia's New Missile: What it Means for Ukraine & the rest of the World
"Unfortunately, it seems that [Putin's] message is not being received."
Insane John McCain coined the phrase, "Russia is a gas station masquerading as a county."
The gas station just tested a medium range hypersonic missile which carries 36 warheads. FAFO!!!!
Eight warheads totaling 48 sub-munitions…!
Video of new missile makes a heavy thunderstorm look like a walk in the park.
https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/thunderbolt-from-the-skies-putins#media-61efbd1b-8199-4a30-bb29-fe9518ac7ba5
Thanks. I found both video and comment strong and helpful. From Simplicius:
“The fact that mere bureaucratic henchmen like Jake Sullivan, Blinken, and co. are likely the ones behind such momentous decisions [long range missiles into Russia] is a scary thought: the US in effect has no leader, and no real figure of accountability in general, at a time of deepest global polycrisis and the verge of nuclear war; in many ways, it is sickeningly treasonous.”
Specially Blinken, what does he hope to get out of needlessly stirring up trouble while they're about to leave office anyway.
Much like the Democrats woud have had a real chance of retaining the White House by stopping the Genocide, but they didn't and neither did Trump, so it's not over yet.
What we do have is the Russian federation demonstrating military supremacy.
One wonders about the nearly incapacitating fear permeating Volodymyr Zelensky's mind.
Will the Russians let him and his family live? The universal knowledge across Ukraine is that the Oreshnik can devastate their leader's bunker, Italian villa, and government buildings on Russian President Vladimir Putin's affirmative head nod. The AD (air defense) is ineffectual to non-existent.
Zelensky's replacement would be another Langley and Whitehall supplicant or toady. Donald Trump doesn't have a strong negotiating position other than to agree to Russia's terms.
The difference between global peace and nuclear war: The video of Trump's meeting with Klaus Schwab nearly two months ago may not have been an optimistic peace visual.
What do you speculate are Russia's terms? Trump's terms (some time back) were ridiculous: freeze combat with a DMZ; disallow Ukraine into NATO for 20 years; Ukraine cede all territory occupied by Russia; US continue economic and military support to Ukraine.
Russia's terms? I'd rather not speculate. That's why we have Western-based editorial writers and journalists.
We're in a geostrategic epoch where every Western demarche or economic program is zugzwang.
Over the next 5-20 years, Russia will likely dominate in every political, economic, and military category. It may extend beyond 20 years.
Why shouldn't the Global South allow the West to destroy itself with an occasional harmless nudge?
Russia will assist those efforts through its ongoing relations with Global South nations and acquiring critical precious and rare earth minerals while spot prices are relatively low.
That might be Moscow's general plan without focusing on specifics.
Will a nuclear war ensue? Sometimes I think Jake Sullivan, A. Blinken, the WEF, and the 'Christian' Zionists have other plans for humanity.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russia-confirms-it-hit-ukraine-new-hypersonic-oreshnik-missile-capable-reaching-any
One of the problems we (I mean humanity) seem to be having is that our brains are not advancing at the rate of our missile technology–which is where the ultimate interceptor capability rests!
While I have concerns about a near-term nuclear exchange that could involve at least five countries, the widespread use of mRNA vaccines approved by various governments or official death cults has grabbed my attention since 2020, but I've digressed.
We'll never be informed when Russia becomes three or four generations ahead in hypersonic missile technology over the US. With the possible exception of the submarine-launched Trident II, America's defense publications convey research is in an early stage.
Russia might have a thirty-year lead. That's significant amid a global economic collapse and a domestic civilian consensus that the defense budget will be significantly cut.
I place China's future economic prospects nearly even or below America's prospects. If you accept America's real estate's Field of Dreams philosophy China copied, then you can understand my opinion. The difference is that I read very few stories of empty US-centric apartment buildings that are demolished.
China is coal-rich and poorly endowed with every other meaningful energy source. China's belief in constructing massive solar panel fields isn't misplaced if you believe its efficient use of formerly agricultural land and hail storms will never occur.
China has 1.44 billion citizens: energy is everything. Russia has about 143 million according to 2023 figures.
Can anyone rationally explain which country, Russia or China, will be exceedingly dependent on energy over the next 20-30 years? I maintain that the world's energy supplies are fixed, while the power to print currency reaches a critical juncture every 80-100 years that accommodates energy's profligate utilization and its gradual inflation.
"I think it's really important that we don't overreact," Hoffman said, adding the missile itself isn't anything particularly new despite what Putin said on Nov. 21.
https://kyivindependent.com/what-is-russias-oreshnik-missile-and-what-happens-next/
Russia has decided finally to take the gloves off seeing that there is no point in trying to negotiate with western powers. If you want to see who the effeminate armies of the U.S. and Nato will be going up against, take a look at this ten minute video.
Putin took the gloves off after invading Ukraine, killing Ukrainians, and steal their land since 2014. Before that, they invaded and annexed Chechnya, invaded and annexed land from Georgia, and took Crimea.
The consequences are all is self inflicted.
Wow, The West is very scared now.
Continue supporting your dictator and keep up the Russian propaganda coming.
Gloves are off, lol. They may finally take Ukraine in 3 days.