A senior Ukrainian Air Force official said Monday that Ukraine plans to keep some of the Western-provided US-made F-16 fighter jets that it will receive at foreign military bases to protect them from Russian strikes, an arrangement that risks provoking Russian attacks on NATO territory.
“There are a certain number of aircraft that will be stored at secure air bases, outside of Ukraine, so that they are not targeted here,” said Brig. Gen. Serhiy Holubtsov, the chief of aviation in Ukraine’s air force. “And this will be our reserve in case of need for replacement of faulty planes during routine maintenance.”
Russian President Vladimir Putin and other Russian officials have previously warned that NATO bases housing Ukrainian jets that are being used in the war could be potential targets.
“If they are stationed at air bases outside the Ukrainian borders and used in combat, we will have to see how and where to strike the assets used in combat against us,” Putin said last year, according to The Associated Press. “It poses a serious danger of NATO being further drawn into the conflict.”
Putin and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov have also noted that F-16s are capable of carrying nuclear weapons. Lavrov warned last year that Russia would view them as a nuclear threat. The Netherlands recently announced that it would allow Ukraine to use the F-16s it provides in strikes on Russian territory.
According to AP, Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands, and Norway have pledged up to 60 F-16s for Ukraine, but none have been delivered so far. The first planes are expected to arrive this summer, and Ukraine may only receive six at first due to delays in training pilots.
Somebody just nuke us already.
/s
You know from talking to people who are just moderately interested in the whole thing, far too many people know next to nothing about nuclear weapons and just assume they are like all the other bombs but just incomparably bigger. So more destructive, deadlier and that is why these weapons are so much more frightening in that respect. There is some radiation and some extra ugly stuff involved with that, but that's just something of an extra nuisance, something like Chernobyl or Fukushima. Some people might get cancer, probably genetically already prone to get it somewhere in their life path anyway. And the rest of the exaggerations will soon just dissipate, rain down and wash away. The oceans are big and deep too nést ce pas?
As a consequence there are people who actually might think your jest is a good idea. Thinking, or what passes for the mute activity going on small distance behind their eyes, that sacrificing a small, perhaps even a medium city is to be accepted thankfully so it could be used as the excuse to finally free the US in doing what they want to do, which is to obliterate Russia with thier nuclear arsenal, since nothing else seems to accomplish that goal within the confines of their attention span.
We can’t make out our US imperial overlords with clarity, but we can see that this consortium behaves recklessly under pressure. It’s unsafe not to assume that (absent major external intervention) these hyper-elite sociopaths may spitefully and stupidly get billions of people killed soon.
You know from talking to people who are just moderately interested in the whole thing, far too many people know next to nothing about nuclear weapons and just assume they are like all the other bombs but just incomparably bigger. So more destructive, deadlier and that is why these weapons are so much more frightening in that respect. There is some radiation and some extra ugly stuff involved with that, but that's just something of an extra nuisance, something like Chernobyl or Fukushima. Some people might get cancer, probably genetically already prone to get it somewhere in their life path anyway. And the rest of the exaggerations will soon just dissipate, rain down and wash away. The oceans are big and deep too nést ce pas?
As a consequence there are people who actually might think your jest is a good idea. Thinking, or what passes for the mute activity going on small distance behind their eyes, that sacrificing a small, perhaps even a medium city is to be accepted thankfully so it could be used as the excuse to finally free the US in doing what they want to do, which is to obliterate Russia with thier nuclear arsenal, since nothing else seems to accomplish that goal within the confines of their attention span.
I agree. Literally. No/s.
Getting pretty fucking close:
BRICS News © @BRICSinfo
BREAKING: Russian Warships, along with a nuclear-powered submarine, arrive in Cuba near United States borders.
The second they cross the border into Ukraine………………..
The naïveté of thinking, as long as those F16s are parked outside of Ukraine, Russia won’t destroy them.
They should be easy targets, as probably the "spares" can't fly so will have to be pushed across the border by a couple of big guys. Or maybe pulled across by a farm tractor.
Americans are dragging Europe into the war with Russia while they themselves prefer to stay aside.
Ukraine is the most evil corrupt country on earth. Ukrainians will do anything to foment World War III due to their hatred of Russia.
This is a lengthy video, but if you find the Scott Ritter segment you will hear scary information. Some of you hate Ritter butt he is just a messenger.
The most interesting statement is that the Ukrainians are one ATACMS strike away from starting a nuclear exchange. The fate of the world is in the hands of fanatical Ukrainians whose blind hatred of Russia knows no bounds.
The White House is 12 minutes away from Cuba by Zircon missiles on Russian warships in Cuba. These can be conventional warheads if so desired.
Neither Zelensky, nor his original sponsor Kolomoisky, nor Nuland, who played maybe the major role in organizing 2014 coup, are ethnic Ukrainians. Soros, who beginning from early 1990th was providing Ukrainian schools with Russo-phobic textbooks, belongs to the same ethnos as those mentioned above. All of them are not any better than Satanyahu.
Ukrainians were brainwashed quite successfully. Still the average Ukrainian, despite the war, is no more anti-Russian than, for example, average German or English.
Also we should separate East Ukrainians from West Ukrainians. They feel differently about Russia and EU. Ukraine is not a problem. The problem is American militaristic oligarchy.
Yes, quite this.
Martyanov quoted a Russian official on this:
Do these people ever even stop and think about what they are saying? We are not talking about a whole lot of serviceable aircraft here; I would be stunned if Ukraine ever manages to get as many as 10 airborne on a single day, and that's after they have all been delivered.
These aircraft are OLD; the Dutch versions were built in 1979, and the Dutch have been parking them and deferring maintenance since the early 1990s. If anything, the Norwegians and Belgians are even lazier and cheaper than the Dutch when it comes to military preparedness.
So go ahead; keep your "spares" (meaning, those aircraft that can't fly anymore) in Poland. That's a heck of a plan.
This whole thing smells of Ukrainian desperation; keep floating stories of how they will continue to "use" the west to support their war, in the hopes of provoking a Russian response that will miraculously trigger article 5.
The Norwegians flew their F16 last time 6.th January 2022
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/air-warfare/norwegian-f-16-fighters-fly-last-mission-with-new/
The Danes have kept theirs in flying condition (they are selling some to Argentina)
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/denmark-keeps-f-16-fighter-jets-flying-due-russia-threat-2022-06-20/
Belgium started retiring theirs i September 2023:
https://www.brusselstimes.com/675310/belgiums-first-f-16-jet-retires-after-38-years-of-service
The Dutch ended using their F16 in July 2022:
https://ac.nato.int/archive/2024/NLD_Update_BENELUX_AP
But yes these are old planes however the nations using them have been keeping them at a respectable service level (i.e. they did not spend most of their time grounded for repair or maintenance).
So I'm not quite sure where you are getting your information from – regarding service levels and quality of equipment – yes they are about 40 years old but in flying condition.
If you want to estimate what will be the limiting factor you be much better served by looking at the low level of training Ukrainians at operating the planes.
Norway had 72 F-16s. They sold 32, almost certainly the most updated and airworthy models, to Romania. They lost 16 over their operational history, leaving 24. 22 will be donated, and even the Kyiv Post noted that “no more than” (so maybe less than?) 12 are “airworthy”, and you can define that term any way you want. The other 10 are at best hanger queens, at worst, spare parts. Denmark had 77; they have 44 left, of which only 34 are “operational, and will be selling 24 of those to Argentina (want to bet Argentina is buying the “operational” ones, NOT the hanger queens?) and retaining some of the remaining flyable aircraft until their F-35 replacements arrive. So that leaves what? Maybe 4-6 “flyable” models to Ukraine? Like I said, Ukraine will be LUCKY, assuming all these promised aircraft ever arrive, to get 10 into the air at a time.
see https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2024/denmark-confirms-transfer-of-entire-f-16-fleet-to-ukraine-following-us-f-35-acquisition#:~:text=This%20decision%20is%20part%20of,group%20that%20recently%20included%20Portugal.&text=As%20of%202023%2C%20Denmark's%20F,of%20these%2044%20aircraft%20operational.
That is a more balanced view – these are old frames and the hangar queens are not so much hangar queens as spare parts on wheels. As for the Danish F16 we are transferring 19 (not 10) to Ukraine and the likely fairly low number airworthy at any time is as I indicated not likely to be the limiting factor – pilot training is.
So while I have issues with your assumption that it is the quality of the equipment that will limit the usage, we basically agree that the way deliveries and training are progressing the Ukrainians would be happy if they could put 10 in the air at the same time.
I load my responses with what should easily detectable sarcasm, which ought to be discounted. But yes, given the relatively few airframes available, the already completed sales of MOST of the best airframes to Argentina and Romania, and the retention by some of the owners of at least a few of the remaining flyable aircraft means that Ukraine is getting the bottom of the barrel. And my numbers come from the website of the F-16 consortium, that gives very detailed information about the F-16 fleets of every user of the aircraft, and from armyrecognition.com, two fairly straightforward, factual webpages. So yes, I think Ukraine will be lucky to ever get 10 in the air at once, AND, to the main point of this post, those kept in western countries will almost certainly be the unflyable hanger queens, hardly worth a Russian effort to destroy. Just another tidbit; Netherlands TRIED to sell 12 of their F-16s to Draken, a couple years ago. a private company that does flight training; the sale fell through (and even the Dutch mention this) because of “serviceability concerns” of the aircraft. Meaning….they were junkheaps. You might have a different interpretation, but there you have it.
Just to add; you have far, far too much faith in the integrity and attention to duty of the NATO countries. As reported in the Kiev Independent, of the first tranche of 90+ Ex-Dutch (and Norwegian, I believe) Leopard 1 tanks "donated", only 10 were deemed fully serviceable; the entire tranche was returned to NATO for "rebuilding". I still haven't seen video of any of the 200+ Leopard 1s reported "delivered" on the front lines. MAYBE they are operating, but I've seen no evidence. That's NATO due-diligence. (NOTE I am referring to Leopard 1s, not the Leopard 2s; although the older Leopard 2s, especially the 2A4 models, have had serviceability issues as well. It's not "military aid", it's a garage sale.
No the issue is that the Leopard 1 was not in service until recently the F16 was. The Leopard 1’s were often actual museum pieces.
The leopards also the 2’s have serviceability issues – that is in line with all big Cat German tanks no surprise there. The poor Ukrainians are labored with more Leopard variants than they can shake a stick at and add to this the US M1A’s the French wheeled AMX’s the Bradley’s the Strikers the… it is a maintenance nightmare.
The F16’s are just an other reason that they are not going to be able to field as many frontline soldiers as you seem to think they can.
My “thoughts” on their ability to field front line soldiers is based on their population, which i admit is unknown, after emigration, deaths, and the loss of population in the Russian governed areas, but should still be in the 25-28 million range. Since they have been touting how “women” were serving in their ranks, then at 25 million they should easily have a “people power pool” of over 5 million (including women) , yet seem to have trouble putting half a million into combat. Re the rest; the Leopard 1s were front line equipment of many NATO countries until 2000 or so; and are far, far simpler to maintain, and rehab, than say a 1979 vintage F-16 will be. Yet, the NATO nations did a miserable job of that; I think it is wishful thinking to expect they did a “better” job maintaining their retired F-16s. You can look at their active militarys as well; Germany has a hard time operating even that equipment listed as on their active strength. Google “Puma IFV serviceability” – and that’s their “top of the line, we ain’t giving this stuff away” stuff.
You are absolutely right about the pathetic collection of broke down junk NATO (and the US, we’re no better) have “donated” to Ukraine. It’s a used car lot, not a military.
NeoCons want a war so bad!! I think the day is coming when the NeoCons will not be safe in the their own country, will have to hide from the citizens who are enraged that they have murdered their loved ones in their greedy, evil wars…payback and justice will be served.
The F-16s won't be safe in any countries…! Belarus can play a big role in early warnings…!
If those planes STAY outside Ukraine, Russia has said they won't attack them. If they enter Ukrainian air space from those airfields, the airfields will be legit targets – and they will be hit – whether NATO and the US like it or not.
Martyanov pointed out yesterday that Russia can see every plane taking off far into western Europe with their long-range radars. Russia will know which airfields the F-16s come from.