The US and Israel are considering establishing a multinational force to occupy the Gaza Strip if Israel successfully eliminates Hamas, Bloomberg reported on Tuesday.
The idea would be to grant temporary oversight of Gaza to countries in the region backed by a force with troops from the US, Britain, France, and Germany. Sources told Bloomberg that, ideally, the force would also include Arab nations, such as Saudi Arabia and the UAE.
The report said President Biden was aware deploying US troops to Gaza would carry huge political risks and that the discussions are still at an early stage. The Palestinians would almost certainly resist the idea of a Western force occupying Gaza.
The idea is one of three options being considered for a potential post-war Gaza, although Israeli officials have said the current conflict could last years. The second option includes establishing a peacekeeping force similar to the Multinational Force and Observers (MFO), the group that operates in Sinai to enforce the Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty. The other option would grant temporary control of Gaza to the UN.
Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Tuesday acknowledged the US was considering what would become of Gaza if Israel defeats Hamas. “We can’t have a reversion to the status quo with Hamas running Gaza,” Blinken said. “We also can’t have — and the Israelis start with this proposition themselves — Israel running or controlling Gaza. Between those shoals are a variety of possible permutations that we’re looking at very closely now, as are other countries.”
A leaked document from Israel’s Intelligence Ministry has revealed that the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is considering pushing all of the Palestinians living in Gaza into Egypt, but that would require the cooperation of Cairo, which has firmly rejected the idea.
So, is . . . self-determination on the list of options? Is it?
F–K no
Ethnic cleansing, with the 2 million Gazans from the destroyed Ghetto airlifted to the US for “resettlement” is an option.
Bloody hell! Enough is enough, already…
Donna: in Hebrew they say Geneg is Geneg.Apparently Israel is not done with slaughter,murder and Genocide. I am not surprised.
As they should.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1fd84d01ebfd9c9d6b548691b3a39c7436cb72ed18d9d2961e51c2060c80a1d0.jpg
I would hope so but would not bet on it. too much death and suffering would carry the day with a desire for revenge and retribution.
The restraint that Israel practices today? This the winner in today’s competition for sharpest self-satire.
It’s especially impressive because it wins despite losing points for terrible text color and font style choices.
Jabalia
Your comments deserve to be complimented for accuracy,truth,humor and consistancy. You have become one of my must reads on a daily basis.
Thanks. In fairness, it is also true that I can be grumpy, harsh and sometimes unforgiving. Opposing US wars and warmongering has been a key part of my life since the 1960s and my patience is thin.
I feel the same way and am sorry that our efforts have not had success yet.
Except no. Israeli governmental policy toward “Palestinian Resistance” has taken every possible step toward “reconciliation” and general de-escalation, with Israeli security forces even pulling out of Gaza, granting the region effective self-government, their ostensible goal, yet terrorist attacks and calls for genocide from these organizations did not cease. Israeli Security Forces routinely allow children hoping for “martyrdom” to attack their tanks and personnel, strikes against known terrorists use special forces instead of explosives for fear of civilian casualties, something that results in far more military casualties, yet this muted response wouldn’t qualify as self-defense? If killing were truly the reasons for this conflict, wouldn’t the conflict cease when Hamas became the de-facto government in Gaza and gained control of the entire territory of Gaza without an Israeli Security presence? As such, this “response” would be dishonest, misleading and false. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e2cf38051ee050f656dcd478a63924aaf42b71587f01a75dd94e1639216827ad.png
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6ca86da0d6bfaa11749901932375bb0719187151f1d6afdea2b1b54bdfda1ffe.png
I stand with good people to protest the terrorism by Israeli Zionists. Number 1: Netanyahu.
Would these be the same people who chant “death to Israel”? Because all the people and movements that chant “death to” are just so nice, right?
There is a very long history of the wrong things being done by both sides, These issues are not new. I will not excuse the atrocities of either one side or the other side. They both need to change their ways for the betterment of those innocent people of palestine. This is the only answer. They both need to stop killing innocents without any shred of remorse and step down. They have no shame.
Okay, here’s Israel warning residents of areas that could be targeted through various means, such as leaflets and general text-message alerts, as well as making sure that humanitarian aid can reach residents as they give them enough time to evacuate the area: https://disq.us/url?url=htt…. They are clearly using all reasonable measures to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties in their counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations, and noticeably while there have been isolated incidents of extremism, isolated instances of mistakes and errors do not invalidate a response dedicated to ending terrorism and attempts of genocide, especially when they are condemned and actively against the policies, aspirations and principles of organizations such as the Israeli Defense Forces, and as such are practically irrelevant to the moral position of Israel and the Israeli Defense Forces. As the world comes together to condemn Hamas’s unjustifiable terrorism and support Israel, we can only wish the brave souls of the Israeli Defense Forces godspeed in their mission.
You say , as the world comes together to condemn hamas, This is not true, Here is the position you are in.
America has drained its emergency oil reserves for emergency war situations. They are almost gone. They are also trying to fight multiole wars in Ukraine , In the middle east, korea, and with russia and china..
Their southern border leaks like a rusty bucket. And China has been found to have bio labs with genetical viruses in US cities.
Saudia arabia is tired of them, their debt situation is like a junkie on crack.
While the US spent money and spied on their own people and created a distrust of government. The USSR silently created hypersonic weapons to defeat american defense systems.
Now the mis east is threatening terror attacks on your homeland while your troops are headed to the mid east. Once bogged down heavily in the mid east , China will most likely turn towards tiawan.
At this point the oil in the mid east could lock up leaving America without oil and funds since the world will shun american bonds as insolvent.
The US will try to instigate a draft to increase military. However the masses who are suffering under mass inflation and have been treated like fodder already will resist.
The US media will then try bribery, patriotism, and shaming, to get support for the draft, but earlier examples of protest have seasond the US citizens into revolt.
All nations with varying motives will become enlightened in fervor while America tries to cope with disease and domestic terror as well as bankruptcy. The middle east will be a death bed for innumerable souls.. . .
But I guess its OK as long as we favor a side and talk about the right of self defense.
Yeah, like telling them to flee South, then bomb the caravan. That isn’t terrorism? How about bombing hospitals? How about cutting off electricity and fuel so that babies will die in their incubators?
Paid troll…………..
Number 1: ISRAEL STOP BEING AN OCCUPIER!
Number 2: ISRAEL STOP BEING AN OCCUPIER!
Except that while Hamas became the de-facto government in Gaza and gained control of the entire territory of Gaza without an Israeli Security presence over a decade ago, the conflict has yet to cease or abate with Hamas regularly investing its actual resources into missiles and other tools of death and destruction to commit terrorism and acts of genocide, so if Israel would be an “occupier” they’re evidently not doing a very good job of it. But you want to move beyond your false binary and know where the money of the “Palestinian resistance” is actually being funneled into instead of being spent on ensuring safe wells and clean drinking water for the population: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/104d2e8d12e52b2eed5224f3f734b614a95a09367992f0e90ba43469919322ac.jpg
You sound like Blinken, expressing his sincere hope for freedom and democracy for everybody.
I live under the facade of a democracy within a corporate capatalistic regime.
I do not support nor agree with a lot of what blinken says, period.
I support the inncoent citizens of israel and palestine whether by democracy or whatever government as long as prosperity, human freedom, peaceful existance, and individual natiral happiness are obtained.
I am not anything like blinken and he is not anything like me.
“Israeli governmental policy toward “Palestinian Resistance” has taken
every possible step toward “reconciliation” and general de-escalation . . .”
Except the step that matters, ending eight decades of settler colonialism, ethnic cleansing and an apartheid state.
Except you have been continuously unable to prove your main assertion, that being that Israel would have or would ever knowingly or unknowingly commit the aforementioned actions and policies you have accused it of.
With every “agreement”, Israel has inserted the thinnest of trip wires, so as to exit the agreement. Professor Chomsky has pointed this out. Israel has had a terrific teacher in that regard. The United States of Atrocity.
If they did, Israel would not be an occupier. There would be a better chance of the two state solution. I know you understand what “occupier” and what “occupied” mean. Netanyahu constantly refers Gaza and the West Bank to be “occupied territories”. It means control, subduing, discrimination, racism. Palestinians have been trapped in their concentration came for 75 years. That is a long time.
I say it appears that a forced migration is on the way similar to the Trail of Tears forced on the Seminoles in Florida long ago. As is said there is nothing new under the sun and now Israel would have their policing done by the UN. Sounds like win win to me.
Multi national makes it sound like it is a giant coalition.
It is just = Israel + US
With the cost 1% and 99% respectively
No, it’ll be multinational, that’s the whole point. US for sure will not be there.
For Sure is not, in a mind suffering from dementia, For Sure.
No US troops in Gaza. They will be targets.
So we get to be Israel’s Kamp Guards instead of the PA?…
No fuckin’ way. Let the Zios fester on that anthill.
Other countries supported the U.S. in their counter-terrorism operations in the aftermath of 9/11. Israel provided important logistical and intelligence based support for the U.S. and coalition operations in the region. It would be cruel and hypocritical for the world to subsequently not support Israel in their hour of need.
The very last thing anyone should do is help Israel behave as the US did after 9/11.
At this point, I think the best way for the US to support Israelis might be to help them move. Utah should be considered.
So an actual genocide: i.e., “acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group”. The religious group of Judaism’s foundational pillar is the promised land of Zion, and as such any attempt to remove or negate that would be an actual one.
I said help, not compel. I suggest that possibility because I anticipate that some Israelis might not want to remain in the egalitarian, multi-ethnic single state that all of Palestine/Eretz Israel should become. Because Western powers, primarily the US, share responsibility for the 75-year Nakba, the settler colonialism, the apartheid, the ethnic cleansing and the genocide, it is incumbent on us to assist those of our clients who may not want to stay if they can’t continue to be privileged oppressors.
I understood you perfectly well, you meant “help” in the context of not providing Israel with the necessary support and resources to defend itself. I’d actually agree with you that Israel should become a single state, as the reason it wasn’t was due to attempted concessions that shouldn’t have been made in the first place, especially given the importance of giving the survivors of the largest genocide in world history a state to defend themselves, although you attempting to imply that “Palestinians” would be the equivalent of Native Americans in the United States comes off as weird and uninformed given the history of Judaism in the region. Additionally, if the U.S. were to “share responsibility” for giving the survivors of the Holocaust the means and power to insure that “never again” would never simply be a phrase, I’d fail to see what they should be ashamed off, especially given that Israel would absolutely not be an “apartheid state” nor would it have ever nor will it probably ever commit the acts and/or policies you would accuse it of (https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalreview.com%2F2021%2F05%2Fno-israel-is-not-an-apartheid-state%2F%3AaFK6T6N9vRjBoqUz_d9wgZPAlIc&cuid=18764). And if your going to do the “shrinking Palestine” thing I’ve seen others attempt to do: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e94beb277c1e19fa01f6df8927f6d726f0f7cfe8d5c1c0d7e6ffb53db09b9eca.jpg
I didn’t mean to “imply that ‘Palestinians’ would be the equivalent of Native Americans in the United States.” Since you bring it up, though: The genocidal behavior of Israelis toward Palestinians and the genocidal behavior of the European settlers toward Native Americans are equivalent to the extent that both are genocide. And both are genocide.
Further, to be perfectly clear: Over the nearly 80 years since its founding, Israel has demonstrated that it cannot or will not behave responsibly as an ethnocracy (if a responsible ethnocracy is even possible). I think Israel no longer deserves support for its continued existence as an ethnostate.
Israel has made a two-state solution impossible, which is unsurprising since that’s exactly what it intended to do. The apartheid state will be impossible to maintain and the world will not continue to permit the ethnic cleansing and genocide forever. Israel is going to have to make some hard choices, and it’s not going to get what it wants.
Did you read the source I gave you? You can tell this is a false equivalency because there are very clear differences between the unfortunate treatment of Native Americans in North America and the depreciative treatment giving to the “Palestinian resistance” of terrorism and armed violence in the hopes of finding a peaceful resolution. It’s at this point that the logic and reasoning I’ve consistently stated and supported previously have become directly relevant again as well:
Israeli governmental policy toward “Palestinian Resistance” has taken every possible step toward “reconciliation” and general de-escalation, with Israeli security forces even pulling out of Gaza, granting the region effective self-government, their ostensible goal, yet terrorist attacks and calls for genocide from these organizations did not cease. Israeli Security Forces routinely allow children hoping for “martyrdom” to attack their tanks and personnel, strikes against known terrorists use special forces instead of explosives for fear of civilian casualties, something that results in far more military casualties, yet this muted response wouldn’t qualify as self-defense? If killing were truly the reason for this conflict, wouldn’t the conflict cease when Hamas became the de-facto government in Gaza and gained control of the entire territory of Gaza without an Israeli Security presence?
Israel is not responsible for the current situation of having slices of what should have been its territory given to “Palestine”, and in America you certainly don’t see Native Americans granted a dominion functionally the equivalent of a state (this is absolutely a correct analogy given the relative size of the Israeli state). If you truly wish to be against genocide, support Israel in its justified self-defense counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations that continuously take every reasonable measure to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties. There is only one correct, reasonable and moral decision.
Most promises made in the distant past are rendered void by the present. Don’t you understand this?
That’s like saying it would be okay to remove Americans from Washington D.C. because the city and the constitution were founded a long time ago. Try again.
A f*cking book promise. By a super being that kills babies, lets a murderer (David) off the hook, advocated slavery (plus the owner OK to beat his slaves), incest, taking of the property of another, lays eternal h*ll on women, says that one people are “chosen” and can do as they wish. That book is not to be taken literally. Woe to the people that do. Woe to others.
The only support the Israelis rendered on 9/11 was to al-Qaida.
Yeah, because the Saudi nationals hiding in areas of Pakistan were definitely receiving their orders from the Israeli government. Feel free to “prove” such a major assertion the same way you attempted to previously, i.e. refusing to address and/or prove the original assertion and instead of admitting the loss simply resorting to attempted insults and attempting to deflect from the already disproven claim.
They caught the bastards dead to rites on the Jersey side of the Hudson River dancing like fools and videotaping the fall of the Twin Towers.
They knew it was going down. They made it happen.
What are you even talking about? Are the rest of us ever going to get anything resembling a credible source for this allegation? Who would this mysterious they be? So many questions and so little substiated proof, getting deja-vu all over again.
Oh do your homework and stop bothering people!
Says the account continuously choosing to continue responding to my original “post”. But I guess that’s a perfectly reasonable and valid response to not being able to actually prove your original assertions. Truly on par with such legendary online internet assertions as “everyone who’s right would already agree with me” and “but personal opinions… ”. I guess I stand corrected. Good luck “wasting the rest of the precious minutes and seconds of your life” (reader context – a previous attempted insult on another thread).
Rubbish.
The resignation letter of Craig Mokhiber, Director of the New York office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights
Yeah, saw that. Why is the UN still based in the United States, the world’s preeminent purveyor of violence and instability, not to mention complete contempt for international law.
The UN is still based in the US because the US provides more than a quarter of the UN’s funding and has a UNSC veto which it would certainly use to prevent a move.
Why would the Security Council have any say over a headquarters move? Wouldn’t that be a decision for the General Assembly?
Actually, I’m not certain. I tend to assume that the SC can at least block anything really significant. One of the core goals of the (real) founders, the Big Four (really the Big Three) was to keep themselves/their nations in substantial control.
I’ll check.
Edit: I’ve done a quick re-read of the Charter, the 1946 GA resolution selecting NYC, and the Headquarters Agreement. I can’t find anything specifying authority to determine the location of headquarters or its relocation.
The 1946 resolution was a GA resolution, however . . .
Except for approving budgets, the General Assembly just doesn’t have a lot of meaningful authority. Pretty much everything the Charter assigns to it has to do with discussion and/or recommendation.
I think it’s extremely unlikely that the GA could decide to move headquarters and compel implementation of that decision. Everything about the structure and practice of the UN vests real power in the SC, and ultimately in the permanent members. It ain’t no democracy.
A mirror image of the American government.
Democracy is nice, but too precious to be entrusted to the voters.
Exactly. We are not exactly a neutral country.
On whose authority ….. Oh well, never mind.
Same old concentration camp, whether in Gaza or in the Sinai. You can bet that even if Hamas were to give up all of the hostages, Israel would still bomb, cleanse, force Palestinians out. Next year no one will remember the 75 years of Palestinians living in that concentration camp, or who the Palestinians were. The remnants of the “terrorist” babies and their mothers will reside in open air tents. To die. There will be celebrations in Israel, the “liberated” Gaza and the West Bank. Netanyahu will then set his sight on Syria for further expansion. Iran will be bombed. Just glorious. We will proclaim that Israel has the right to “self defense”. Rinse, repeat.
Hopefully Bibi doesn’t live that long!
Well that would be one way to exploit their resources and keep the palestininians in poverty and opression for the long term future.
I am damn sure that is #1 on Israels agenda.
The plan, which predates 10/7/23, is to exile the Palestinians to the Sinai desert. To die.
Israel is filled with humanitarians who believe in live and let live unless you are Arabic.
Or maybe, just maybe, Israel and other countries are actually attempting to secure the best outcome for the civilian population, as terrorist and genocidal organizations like Hamas that do not represent the people of “Gaza” (barely half of the population supported a statement of attacking Israel), in addition to not having held elections since approximately a decade ago, have been putting innocent civilians in danger by hiding their weapons, personnel and equipment near them, almost always either without consent or under coercion, and then after purposefully putting them in clear and consistent danger attempting to use some of the unfortunate consequences they have specifically been attempting to create and bear full responsibility for to attempt to control both the public and the media. If “oppression” would be helping people secure a better, brighter population without unelected and unrepresentative terrorist and genocidal organizations like Hamas, that should be an outcome welcomed by all parties.
You sound rather pro war moving forwards, for being on an anti war website.
I’m not in favor of conflict, but at some point there does have to be a right to self-defense. There is a difference between a political conflict between two factions and a “hey, don’t kill innocent individuals” response to terrorism and acts of genocide. Just because its Israeli civilians who are targeted by Hamas does not make their lives worth less.
You’re correct, for once. The Palestinian people have the right of self-defense.
How do they do that with no means like Israel?
“Self defense” is expropriating (taking) Palestinians lands (Ben-Gurion admitted it), enclosing the Palestinians in an open air concentration camp, daily raids by settlers (with IDF as backup), detaining or shooting Palestinian children,controlling electricity,potable water, food, medicine going into Gaza, bombing hospitals, UN shelters, killing UN personnel along with Palestinians, having what the Palestinians do not have; army, navy, air force, and a big sugar daddy – The United States of Atrocity?
Ben-Guiron made the quote you appear to be referring to in May 1948, approximately twenty years before the U.S. civil rights movement ended. Countries aren’t necessarily perfect, and can sometimes make mistakes. During the 1940’s the U.S. had actual concentration camps for Japanese Americans and those of Japanese descent, the U.S.S.R. had instituted the Gulag and the CCP was beginning its policies that would lead to the starvation of their people. Yet each one of these places (aside from maybe China under Xi-Jinping) has made a concerted effort to recognize and never repeat those mistakes, with few reasonable subsequently claiming that due to those mistakes the governments would be invalid and their lands should be appropriated by others. As for your “open-air prison” comment, you clearly don’t know what your talking about, as most prisoners would be very jealous of a prison without any substantial security presence from the people “keeping them in there” or something and only occasionally filtering out the worst types of weapons from between the prison and the outside world. Plenty of individuals have died from if not emerged seriously maimed or injured from “rocks” thrown by “Palestinians”, and as such when a serious volley of them is thrown against others in an unprovoked and unjustified riot, security measures, such as the use of some small arms, can absolutely become necessary. I never disputed that there may be isolated instances of violence by private Israeli citizens, I have simply been stating that Israel has a legitimate right to self-defense against terrorism and acts of genocide. Furthermore, the IDF does actually side against and condemn Israeli “settlers” when the situation actually warrants it, something you imply does not occur: https://www.cnn.com/2023/02…. The U.S. intelligence community, as per a statement by Joe Biden (a president I’m still not particularly a fan of after the Afghanistan withdrawal, but his latest actions are a start), has thrown their weight behind the assessment that Israel was absolutely not responsible, as close to a definitive verdict on the issue as anyone is likely going to get (https://www.reuters.com/world/us-analysis-shows-israel-not-responsible-hospital-explosion-white-house-2023-10-18/). Hamas is one of several terrorist and genocidal organizations Iran has funded in its attempts to weaken Israel through its “death by a thousand cuts” strategy, including Hezzbolah and “Palestinian islamic jihad”. And Iran certainly has both a navy and an air force, with them even going as far as attempting provocative maneuvers against U.S. government-owned ships with theirs (https://www.nbcnews.com/new…), using their air-force in more provocation attempts against the U.S. in the region (https://www.thenationalnews…), as well as their “proxies” directly attacking U.S. troops with drones (https://www.msn.com/en-us/n…). Yes, certain electrical power and water supplies appeared to have been hit and damaged by IDF forces, yet noticeably this was only after extensive time and ample warnings were given to civilians to flee in an attempt to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties. Ending off your “comment” with a condemnation of the United States (yes, the United States has made mistakes in places such as Syria, no, that does not invalidate them supporting a justified self-defense counter-terrorism and anti-genocide response that continuously takes every reasonable measure to attempt to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties) would also not invalidate their legitimate support for the state of Israel, and the U.S. government has recently stated that “As long as America Exists, It Will Support Israel”, so as such the future for Israeli and U.S. cooperation against terrorism and attempts of genocide seems only bright.
How about Moshe Dayan after the 1967 war: “Palestinians will live like dogs”
You imply you’ve made some kind of point, but then you don’t give anyone who’d be reading your “comment” enough context to even understand what you’d be trying to imply. Who is Moshe Dayan? Why should what they’re attempting to say carry any sort of significant weight, and as such why should any reader particularly care about their opinions and/or analysis? You once again seem to believe you’ve made some sort of “point”, yet the rest of the individuals who would read this “comment” would seem to presumably leave it more confused than since they read it? Figures. You appear to be starting to show real weakness in your tired attacks against Israel at this point, especially given the frequency and consistency in which you increasingly seem to resort to unsubstantiated claims and unproven allegations. Must be getting real hard to try to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you.
So if tomorrow Hamas kills Israel civilians is that also self defense?
When middle eastern countries tired of American occupation attack America is that self defense?
Your self defense seems to be onesided which only leads to further wars.
Ww3 and the nuclear option are now on the table.
Please stop picking waring sides. It only leads to your own destruction as well as the loss of lives of others
Here’s a question for you then: why would the Israeli military target areas that could cause civilian casualties? Perhaps the non-representative (barely half of the population of Gaza supported a statement of attacking Israel) undemocratic (they haven’t held elections in “Gaza” since approximately a decade ago) illegitimate Hamas terrorist organization hides its weapons, equipment and personnel in civilian infrastructure oftentimes through either coercion or without consent in order to influence the media and the general world. If Hamas commits additional terrorism and acts of genocide after purposefully attempting to cause the unfortunate incidents you mentioned they continue to bear full responsibility for those actions the same way they do and will continue to for every casualty caused by this conflict-of-choice. To give you an analogy: a school shooter does not have a right to self-defense if some of his classmates are shot while law enforcement are attempting to eliminate him due to him attempting to hide in a densely populated area while he actively tries to prevent his classmates from freeing for his own personal benefit. And if you don’t believe Hamas would be actively engaging in these activities it is very well documented: https://youtu.be/kaK4muqkRBE
Pure unadulterated BS. Are you Blinken?
No, s/he’s a hasbarist.
Yeah, because anyone who might disagree with you on an online internet forum is obviously part of a state-level coordinated campaign to discredit and delegitimize your movement and your causes, right? But I guess being consistently unable to prove I would be incorrect or wrong or even adequately support the basic tenets of “Palestinian resistance” might be getting to you then. Just make sure in the end your able to choose the only moral, reasonable and correct choice in this conflict: supporting Israel.
“Yeah, because anyone who might disagree with you on an online internet
forum is obviously part of a state-level coordinated campaign. . .”
Of course not. Individuals with independent minds and agency disagree with me all the time.
But you are either a hasbarist or so perfectly in alignment with hasbara policy and practice that you should get in touch with the team right away if you aren’t already a member. They need you and you’re a perfect fit.
Because being in alignment with a counter-terrorism and anti-genocide response that takes every reasonable measure to prevent civilian would be so bad, right? You can be a “dissident” if you want, but sometimes governments and their security forces are truly working and providing for the common good.
“. . . sometimes governments and their security forces are truly working and providing for the common good.”
And sometimes they are engaged in genocide, by the most horrific means imaginable. That’s the case here. And you approve of and support that genocide. There is no excuse for that. None.
Except you have been continuously unable to prove your main assertion, that being that Israel would have or would ever knowingly or unknowingly commit the aforementioned actions and policies you have accused it of. I don’t “approve of” any of the things listed, and as such I stand with Israel as they work to actually engage in counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations against the illegitimate and unrepresentative terrorist organization known as Hamas.
You don’t understand: Prosecutors bear a burden of proof. I have only to assess the evidence available to me and reach a personal judgment — a verdict if you will — and then act on it in whatever ways seem appropriate to me. I have found Israel guilty of genocide, among other heinous crimes, and am treating it accordingly. I judge you complicit.
I have only the authority of a single individual and only the resources an individual without wealth or much power can command. If there weren’t many, many millions of others who have reached the same judgments, Israel, and you, could ignore those judgments without concern or worry. But there are, and more every day the unforgivable slaughter continues.
Okay, you’re making an assertion, a charge, and as such as a “prosecutor” it would be up to you to bear the burden of proof. Then you say you’ve already assessed the evidence, but you’re never able to properly explain or prove your original assertion. If you want to say you have an opinion, thats okay, plenty of people have opinions on issues they don’t particularly consume a lot of information on. But when you make a large-scale assertion and are unable to properly prove it, it is objectively either misleading or false. No one would be “ignoring” people’s judgements, I’m simply pointing out that given the overwhelming amount of evidence and reasons to the contrary, the state of Israel would not and would never fall under any of the categories or have engaged in any of the activities you have attempted to assign to it.
No. I’m acting as judge.
I didn’t deny you can form and hold your own opinions and judgements. I have simply been responding to your large-scale allegations and the subsequent lack of evidence and proof to support them in comparison to the overwhelming body of corroborated evidence and history to support the IDF’s moral and restrained counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations that take every reasonable measure to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties. While if you choose to refuse to acknowledge this that is of course your choice, I’m simply pointing out what the only moral, reasonable and as such correct option would be.
The only evidence you’ve ever provided for the claim that the IDF “takes every reasonable measure to prevent civilian casualties” is that the IDF says it “takes every reasonable measure to prevent civilian casualties.” And even that evidence is highly suspect coming from people who wear these shirts … https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/52e27ac681862279dac97481d0d9a538a696c00282b03eb6c5f5ff5ac95cb6b9.jpg
So you’re literally just copying “wars r. u.s.”‘s content now. Figures. If you haven’t actually read my clear, concise and supported responses, I’ll give you a few highlights:
Here’s one for “Palestinian” rock throwing: https://disq.us/url?url=htt…
Here’s a somewhat decent analysis that goes into why Israel would clearly not be an “apartheid state”: https://www.nationalreview….
Israel properly warning and giving civilians time to flee what could become a conflict-zone: https://www.reuters.com/wor….
More proof of Israel warning and giving civilians time to flee what could become a conflict-zone: https://disq.us/url?url=htt…
An article showing how the IDF has used special forces more in recent years, or as they put it “targeted killing” but still: https://www.globaldefenseco…
And finally, a “medium.com” story written by me that illustrates the context and reasoning behind the state of Israel’s moral and restrained operations: https://medium.com/p/2c6216…
Some of these I have provided while directly responding to you, so as such your attempted rebuttal does not appear particularly relevant or convincing in the context of this “conversation”. Isolated instances of mistakes and errors do not invalidate a response dedicated to ending terrorism and attempts of genocide, especially when they are condemned and actively against the policies, aspirations and principles of organizations such as the Israeli Defense Forces, and as such are practically irrelevant to the moral position of Israel and the Israeli Defense Forces. Since you didn’t appear to recognize the sources and evidence I’ve previously “posted” in your “response”, I’ll give you one final message:
As the world comes together to condemn Hamas’s unjustifiable terrorism and support Israel, we can only wish the brave souls of the Israeli Defense Forces godspeed in their mission.
Somehow in your copying and pasting, you’ve managed to break all the links to the stuff that didn’t prove your claims the first 50 times you posted them.
Somehow in your copying and pasting, you’ve managed to break all the links to the stuff that didn’t prove your claims the first 50 times you posted them.
Okay, here’s them fixed:
https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.memri.org%2Freports%2Fjoy-mothers-palestinian-martyrs%3AuVatOdX4HvN-PUkXte4oyj_NbSA&cuid=18764
https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalreview.com%2F2021%2F05%2Fno-israel-is-not-an-apartheid-state%2F%3AaFK6T6N9vRjBoqUz_d9wgZPAlIc&cuid=18764
https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Fworld%2Fmiddle-east%2Fisrael-tells-gazans-move-south-or-risk-being-seen-terrorist-partner-2023-10-22%2F%3AqjWHrSWBdQjrsGrJ4BLgSI-bOFg&cuid=18764
https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.politico.com%2Fnews%2F2023%2F10%2F21%2Fidf-prepares-for-ground-invasion-00122881%29%3ARpKz3dOgZjTGfcazjnzgDbfZwAc&cuid=18764
https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2Fp%2F2c6216f03de7%3AP-qeCBmacDivOYr5-1ZXr-4yYTI&cuid=18764
And no, once again simply claiming that logic and reasoning would be invalid in proving a point on an internet forum does not and will not work. Try again. If you’ve even been actually trying in the first place.
And how does an article over Palestinian mothers’ “joy” vis a vis “martyrdom,” an op-ed asserting that policies exactly like South African apartheid aren’t apartheid if they’re enforced by a Middle East ethno-religious garrison state, and three articles about warning people that they’re going to be murdered if they don’t do whatever they’re told prove that the IDF “takes every reasonable measure to prevent civilian casualties?”
I have included that article amongst my sources to support my clear, concise, supported and well-reasoned stances because it demonstrates the depravity of the terrorism and attempted genocide culture that can flourish amongst “Palestinian” militants and terrorists that demands a response against their transgressions, and it follows that an article on how Israel’s policies would not be “apartheid” or “settler colonialism” would prove exactly that. You’d also appear to have misidentified one of the articles I have cited, as it specifically states one of the tactics Israel has used to reduce civilian casualties, using special forces raids instead of precision strikes against known terrorists, as an article “warning people”. While I’m not particularly a fan of zoning laws, let’s put that aside for a second in service of a hypothetical to elaborate on the issue: imagine the U.S. government informs you that your house has been taken over by Al-Qaeda, and as such it is going to be neutralized by a combined arms artillery, hypersonic Kinzhal and F-35 carpet bombing strike. They let you know that they care incredibly about you and your safety, proceeding to call you, text you, flood your digital and physical inboxes with pertinent information regarding how and where they have made arrangements for your safety. If after they delay the operation for three weeks, and on the day of the precision strike when they eliminate Ossama Bin Ladin, it later turns out you deliberately chose to remain inside of the house of your own free will, would this be the U.S. government’s fault, much less a deliberate conspiracy to inflict terrorism or erase your ethnicity or some other clearly false deliberate distortions. And yes, Israel has made arrangements for resident’s safety after informing them extensively and arranging subsequent specified safer zones in addition to appearing to be in discussions with Egypt regarding other options. Additionally, after performing some technical operations and analysis you did not appear to have read my medium.com story elaborating on the necessary context and details regarding Israel’s counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations, so as such how could you be adequately responding to my sources and evidence when you would not appear to have even consumed all of the necessary materials necessary for a somewhat informed response? As such, I have made my points in a well reasoned, clear and concise manner, and whether you’d recognize this or not would not change the validity of my carefully supported, clear, moral and reasonable stances supporting Israel in their self-defense justified counter-terrorism and anti-genocide response that takes every reasonable measure to reduce civilian casualties.
The gigantic wall of incoherent text is the last refuge of the guy who knew from the beginning that he couldn’t support his claims and has now been caught red-handed failing to support his claims.
Um no. Why would you assume you would know enough information about me to know either my mental state or my gender? Weren’t you accusing me of “fantasizing” in relation to you numerous times? While that was a relatively “large” amount of text in the context of this site, within it were numerous clear, concise and well-reasoned points that supported my claims, so while if you’d want to “fantasize” about either my mental state or the actual body of evidence and support I have been consistently able to provide there’s very little I can do to stop you, this would not change your relation to having successfully supported or proven your points.
If you have been able to “consistently provide evidence,” why haven’t you?
You incorrectly claim after approximately 5 linked sources have been provided specifically for when that previously attempted assertion was made. If you continue to be unable to recognize that extensive support, evidence and reasoning has certainly been provided for my stances and points, that may me be an issue relegated solely to you and/or your account. And if you’re going to keep “responding” you’d need to actually respond to my medium.com story: https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2Fp%2F2c6216f03de7%3AP-qeCBmacDivOYr5-1ZXr-4yYTI&cuid=18764. Because this “conversation” appears to be getting somewhat recursive in terms of me providing evidence, support and reasoning for my clear and concise stances and points and you appearing unable to give a substantive “response”, I’m going to end this somewhat recursively: As the world comes together to condemn Hamas’s unjustifiable terrorism and support Israel, we can only wish the brave souls of the Israeli Defense Forces godspeed in their mission.
Because Anthony Blinken would be such a poor, ineffectual leader, right? While I can’t say I’d be exceptionally knowledgeable about him, he has been an executive in various presidential administrations for many years, as well as appearing to be much more decisive and charismatic than Biden (although admittedly that’s not a very high bar). Although I wouldn’t be surprised if throughout his long career in the U.S. government he would have made some mistakes, as someone who’s actually had previous governmental experience, I just can’t especially subscribe to the narrative that everyone who works in government would be secretly evil and all that stuff. People like Joe Biden make mistakes, some obvious, some less, on issues as far-reaching as the “Inflation Reduction Act” (it increased inflation) to the Israel-Hamas conflict (attempting to caution Israel after a 9-11 style event), yet throughout it all it’s clear he’s still just trying his best. Now, do I wish people like Joe Biden would be a little bit younger and a little bit more assertive. Yes. But sometimes you have to take the government you have and not the government you wish you did. And if your going to accuse me of being wrong when I’m the only one that has been able to provide clear, concise and reasoned explanations to support all of my reasoning and points, it should be especially clear who would be correct and supported on issues such as these.
Nope. A troll.
Okay, I guess I can respond to the same account that un-ironically posted the same approximately 4 word accusation string to 9 separate only vaguely related defenses of Israel’s moral and restrained counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations that take every reasonable measure to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties with a tone similar to the one attempted: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d9f02ac5bcb3de66840c20ce95beb71eac3e8cdbbf0abe38b057d68906921690.gif
How much are you paid? It would appear that you are reading off of a script. Same message of nonsense over and over.
Why do you fantasize that anyone who disagrees with you has to be paid to do so?
It is a fact that Israel employs university students to type propaganda. The Independent (2013):https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/students-offered-grants-if-they-tweet-proisraeli-propaganda-8760142.html also: BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23695896
I doubt they’d turn someone as unskilled and constantly self-owning at it as e.g. Jake or Mirror’s Edge here to do it. If they’re getting paid to do what they do, it’s probably by the other side.
(*Sigh*)
Yeah, because you’ve been just such a bastion of supported, informative information and opinions, right?
As long as your patriotic, you have the right to kill the world.
Dont get me started on the lies of the American media as well as others. Warmongers have no reasoning, its always slanted and demonized, there is always an enemy to be made. The way of peace they know not..
Where is this peaceful middle east stability we have heard about for all these year? Where is the end to child starvation? Take a good hard look at the middle east. America and Israel have done nothing. Rusiia and Hamas, Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, Egypt, India. All are incapable of making peace.
Therefor, Go today and create an old woman who saw her babies indescrimintly bombed and killed. See what she thinks of you in the future. Its all hate and revenge. No they do not create peace and stability, they create war
If a country doesnt have elections and their citizens are happy and well fed. Who would i be to argue. Who cares. Its not worth war and killing over.
The US elections are run by the media and the rich. But you cant see that so why bother explaining it to you. You are pro war on an anti war website. Go turn on faux and cnn. You can not compete in a subject you are incapable of comprehending.
I would rather you woke up. Saw the light. For in the light the deeds of the corrupt are made known.
Come reason peace along side the seekers of it.
So I’d magically become a “warmonger” despite the fact that I stated earlier that I would be against wars of choice. Additionally, when would I have ever denied that money can in some circumstances play an outsized role in the American political system? Yet noticeably, none of that would invalidate a justified self-defense counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operation that continuously takes every reasonable measure to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties. To give you another analogy, how would you feel if someone came into your home, shot a member of your family, and then simply drove off to another town. Should he magically simply be left alone so he can commit similar, perhaps worse actions in the future? The world cannot simply allow Hamas to regroup and attack Israel again, they must be eliminated and the threat they represent neutralized. If seeing the reality in front of me means that I would be unable to be “woke”, that remains something I’m glad to continue doing.
Blocked for spreading ignorance….
Paid troll.
I have read that the count of the dead due to the breakout by young men fighting for Hamas is 902, of which 300 or more were IDF. There are testimonies from two Israeli women who said their own forces fired on them in their stupidity, the most damage done by Apache helicopters flown by Israeli pilots,one of which said he was in a dilemma as to where to fire. He made three trips, reloading, to direct more fire. It is thought that the “charred bodies” may have been Israelis. Released hostages said they were treated humanely. One hostage, thanked her captor, testified that she and the other hostages were treated well, even examined by a doctor provided by Hamas.
Hamas won the election in 2007? Israel and US decided not to accept the outcome and rejected the choice of the Palestinian people. Ever Since then Israel have targeted Gaza . So much for election.
Immediately, the blockade was instituted by Israel and the U.S.
You need help.
From what I see, Israel has never been fair to palestine, Whether because of fear, or whatever the motivation. If they havent raised the well being and self reliancy of these neighbors by now, I really doubt they will suddenly change after this war. Refering to the article of course.
Those who cry free palenstien have a point. That said I do neither support the atrocities of Hamas against civilians as well as the curent actions of Israel. There is a difference between raising the living standards of ones neighbor and gaining their admaration and a lasting peace, and instead killing their children in hugh numbers without remorse.
One is rightous, the other is decrepid and shows a lack of respect for Gods creation.
Goes back to what Herzl had in mind for the Palestinians. Dates back to 1920.
Once again the Palestinians aren’t allowed any say on the matter.
“The US and Israel are considering establishing a multinational force to occupy the Gaza Strip if Israel successfully eliminates-”
-human life.
“The idea would be to grant temporary oversight of Gaza to-”
-real estate consortiums competing for Mediterranean Sea-facing lots.
Sounds right.
Interesting that the US and Israel are discussing the future of people in Gaza.
That pretty much cements the notion that the Palestinians are in fact a subservient primitive species who cannot be entrusted with choosing their government, unless their choices are approved by their betters, you know, the two countries that have been screwing them out of having a country to live in as they wish to live, for quite a while now.
What I hope will happen is both Joey and Bibi end up in the dock at the Hague. Were this to happen, I would begin, however furtively, to hope for a return to sanity for the human race.
How terrorism gave birth to a nation;
“ TRACED CHRONOLOGICALLY, THE FORMATION OF THE HAGANAH, THE IRGUN AWAI LEUMI, AND THE LOHAMEI HERUT, THEIR MILITARY AND PARAMILITARY GROUPS, THEIR ORGANIZATION, LEADERSHIP PHILOSOPHY AND ACTIONS ARE SHOWN TO BE INSEPARABLE IN THEIR OPERATIONS AND THEIR STRONG ZIONIST AIMS. THESE THREE GROUPS ATTACKED THE BRITISH ADMINISTRATION AND THEIR WHITE PAPER POLICY, THE ARABS, HITLER, AND FOUGHT IN THEIR OWN CIVIL WAR. IN EXAMINING ASPECTS OF THEIR ROLE IN THE ULTIMATE CREATION OF A JEWISH STATE, IT IS CONCLUDED THAT: (1) JEWISH TERRORISM AGAINST BRITISH AND ARABS DID CONTRIBUTE HEAVILY TO THE REMOVAL OF THE BRITISH FROM PALESTINE, THE ABANDONMENT OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS MANDATE AND THE CREATION OF A JEWISH STATE OF ISRAEL; (2) THERE WERE NO PRACTICALLY AFFORDABLE ALTERNATIVES TO YIELDING THE MANDATE AVAILABLE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF GREAT BRITAIN BECAUSE OF THE COHESIVENESS OF THE TERRORISTS AND THEIR SOPHISTICATION; AND (3) THERE IS NO TRUE CONCLUSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THESE DISSIDENT GROUPS POSED A THREAT TO THE STATE OF ISRAEL AS PERCEIVED BY THE RULER AT THAT TIME, DAVID BEN-GURION; HOWEVER MUCH THEY HAVE POSED A THREAT TO THE PERSONAL POWER OF BEN-GURION, IT IS CONCLUDED THAT THEY PLAYED A SIGNIFICANT PART IN THE CREATION OF THE JEWISH STATE. A BIBLIOGRAPHY AND REFERENCE NOTES ARE PROVIDED. (MHP)
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/jewish-zionist-terrorism-and-establishment-israelI’m
“The requested page could not be found.”
Or, for the hearing impaired:
“THE REQUESTED PAGE COULD NOT BE FOUND.”
I found it.
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/jewish-zionist-terrorism-and-establishment-israel.
I had no problem finding the above.
Try the link. The article is from a report from Peake that I recognized I had read decades ago. The entire report is rather lengthy.
Years ago, Geraldo had a late night show that I would watch now and then. One night he had Netanyahu as his guest. During the commentary, he brought up the King David Hotel bombing, that killed British diplomats, soldiers, and a lot of innocent people. What did Bibi say about the innocents? Quote: “they shouldn’t have been there”. Unquote. Netanyahu showed his dark side that night. Very dark. So, it is not surprising that this lunatic is ordering the massacre, the pushing of Palestinians out of Gaza, the West Bank, and, he will talk Slow Joe to agree that it should be done, which will be conveyed to Sisi (with an offer of cash, etc), to let the Palestinians through the Rafah Crossing. Sisi will not allow the Palestinians to integrate into Egyptian society, so, they will be exiles to the Sinai desert, to live in tent cities. To die. Oh sure, there is talk of building structures for them, but when? On year? Five years? Twenty years? From Nakba II to Holocaust.
Besides weapon manufacturing, it seems the only other industry we didn’t outsource to China is the industry of BAD IDEAS.
Aren’t UN Peace Keeping Forces a better idea?…