On Monday night, the US and its allies voted down a UN Security Council resolution that would have called for a humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza as civilians in the enclave are under a brutal siege.
The resolution was proposed by Russia and was also supported by China, Gabon, Mozambique, and the UAE. But the US, Britain, France, and Japan voted against the resolution. Six countries abstained: Albania, Brazil, Ecuador, Ghana, Malta, and Switzerland.
US Ambassador to the UN Linda Thomas-Greenfield slammed the resolution because it did not condemn Hamas. “By failing to condemn Hamas, Russia is giving cover to a terrorist group that brutalizes innocent civilians. It is outrageous, hypocritical, and indefensible,” she said.
Vassily Nebenzia, Russia’s representative to the UN, slammed the US and its allies, saying they “basically stomped” on hopes for a ceasefire in Gaza by voting down the resolution. “We are extremely concerned by the unprecedented humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza and the very high risk of the conflict spreading,” he said.
The Biden administration has refused to call for a ceasefire in Gaza as it’s strongly backing Israel. The State Department even gave instructions to its diplomats not to mention the idea of “de-escalation” when discussing the onslaught.
Gaza has been cut off from electricity, water, fuel, and food as relentless airstrikes are pounding the enclave, leaving thousands dead. Israel has not allowed any humanitarian aid to enter Gaza from Egypt despite US claims that it’s working to facilitate the deliveries.
Another proud moment in American history.
A proud moment for U.S. policy and its policymakers. “Never Again” is more than a slogan, it is about making sure the largest and most horrendous genocide in human history is never again repeated, with this week’s violence and terrorism against the state of Israel further underscoring its importance in the “modern world”. The world has come together to condemn Hamas’s unjustifiable terrorism and support Israel, and we can only wish the brave souls of the Israeli Defense Forces godspeed in their mission.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ce4903abadd3c467af7139cf24f9eb31fd73b1914c3eae494f68d85bc7cb2eb0.png
Brave souls. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Like the one who shot a 5 year old Palestinian boy in the stomach several weeks ago. His dastardly act? Being alive.
This comment is kind of dumb, as if your referring to the incident I think your referring to that was a U.S. landlord not at all affiliated with the Israeli Defense Forces. But I guess you have to find a way to use an unrelated tragedy as “evidence” because theres precious little against Israel but plenty against terrorist organizations like Hamas.
The IDF? The IDF that’s bombing homes and hospitals from 1000’s of feet because it’s too chickensh_t to send in the troops? That IDF?
The U.S. government, through a statement by Joe Biden (a president I’m still not particularly a fan of after the Afghanistan withdrawal, but his latest actions are a start) has just thrown the weight of the U.S. intelligence community behind a current assessment that Israel was not responsible for the hospital strike, but I guess that still wouldn’t be enough to kill the claim? Figures. Because as I was stating earlier, theres precious little evidence against Israel and the Israeli Defense Force but plenty against terrorist organizations like Hamas.
Ha ha ha ha ha … oh, yes, Biden says something, therefore it’s true. Mr. Malarkey is out of his mind at this point … they have to point him in the right direction and give a gentle push to get him going, so to speak.
No, friend, the “intelligence” saying that “day is night” does not make it so. Watch the video of the explosion: no one on the Pal side has that kind of weapon and we ALL know who does. Even CNN, BBC, and MSNBC know …
And BTW, I noticed how you completely ignored the utter cowardice and depravity of your most moral army in the world in bombing innocent people from 15,000 feet in the air instead of marching in and fighting man-to-man.
Hamas has been backed by Iran, and Iran has been staking its credibility on missile development. If the resulting explosion would appear advanced, would it be out of the realm of possibility Iran could have provided the missile or explosives used in the attack? Stating that something “appears” some way is not a particularly definitive assertion, so if thats all the “evidence” for this claim I’m going to continue to defer to my credible sources.
Once more:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/98ebb18320140836a9f9ae9fbbbbe226877810dc5f258458df33ac555f6a06e2.jpg?w=320&h=247
And once more then:
Why should isolated individual cases of violence and/or extremism be an indictment against the state of Israel while the actual “Palestinian” pseudo-governments can openly call for the genocide of the Jewish people and commit, fund, and support violent acts of terrorism to further this goal. This is a deliberate distortion and should be treated as such.
Once more: Hasbara proving my point.
Once more: Someone who copy-pastes accusing someone else of copy-pasting. You’ve proved nothing aside from that you cant see the truth of this conflict.
Obviously, you ignored my previous comment. I’ve been here for years. I don’t just show up when the little parasite goes on a rampage like you. I have thousands and thousands of comments where i don’t copy and paste. You have none. Same tired MSM talking points over and over and over an….
You: “You ignored my previous comment”
The previous comments: (*Just an image*); An accusation of “hasbara”…
This line of logic is silly. Being on a site or its comment board for a while doesn’t automatically make you right the same way accusing someone else of “reusing” content when you’ve been doing it yourself just now doesn’t prove anything. And I continue to reserve the right to “reuse” arguments and evidence for as long as you continue to have not ever proved them wrong or given any sort of substantial argument against them.
I didn’t say it made me right. But it proves I’m not a newcomer spouting the same basic copy and paste comments on damn near every comment made. And I can’t disprove an opinion. Using catch phases to minimize Israels brutality is your game. “Brave souls of the IDF” and “Counter terrorism anti genocide” are just a couple that are used ad nauseum. I show you the shirts and you brush it off as a few bad apples and not some widespread feeling amongst the IDF despite so many questionable shootings and brutality in the past. “counter terrorism anti-genocide” are just ways of justifying anything Israel does in retaliation regardless of their brutality. What will happen in Gaza will make that Hamas attack look minuscule in comparison, but your catch phrase will make it all their own fault. Of course, those are just my opinions and I’m sure you have some copy and paste reply to counter those truths (again just my opinion).
I have never “minimized” any actual brutality or war-crimes the IDF may have committed. I am simply pointing out that in an organization that has consistently striven to and dealt with people who do not meet its principles and ideals, using a single example of what might be an off-duty T-shirt to discount the actual accomplishments and good they have achieved is not a particularly convincing “argument” or point. Conversely, I can continue to view those people as isolated unfortunate instances as you have not proven otherwise. As the IDF has been replenished through the conscription of most every citizen when they turn 18, I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out there could be a few “questionable shootings”, I just once again don’t see how an organization that has rules against and deals with these incidents should be tainted by them. I have never attempted to justify any action the IDF might commit, as if Israel or the Israeli Defense Forces actually abandon their morals and principles in their counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations in “Gaza”, I probably would not continue supporting them. I also don’t see why I should stop calling their operations a “counter-terrorism and anti-genocide” operation as that is exactly their stated goal, mission, and methodology. You don’t have to be the IDF’s biggest supporter, but to consistently portray them as immoral is simply false.
Yes, they have “striven and dealt” with Palestinians and that has been with BRUTE force. The T-shirts are just an example as to what they think of Palestinians in general. You know, “animals” “cockroaches”. Terms of endearment? That and the brutality through the years is why they have a terrible reputation. If you’d like, I could post dozens of cases where they have used excessive force but what would be the point? Your standard reply will be more of the “counter terrorism/anti-genocide” operations that are similar to what’s going on in Gaza right now. And that’s just more BRUTALITY. And no, they haven’t abandoned their “morals and principals”. They have to have some to start with in order to do that. And your repeated use of the phrase “counter terrorism/anti genocide” is why I call you hasbara. It’s the answer for their BRUTALITY in every instance where innocents are disregarded. And that has been the case in every incursion into Gaza the IDF has done. They even call those “mowing the grass”. Such morals. Labeling them as “counter terrorism/anti genocide” is just the standard excuse to make the BRUTALTY acceptable. They are as immoral as they come. Just like their ultra far-right government that Bibi had to allow in order to get enough votes to regain power. Even our government has voiced concerns over that. Of course, that doesn’t stop the $4 billion per year going their way so they can keep that military superiority and continue with their BRUTALITY.
The recent statement by one of the Defense Ministers has continued to not be valid, as in context he was clearly talking about Hamas. And no, calling an operation a euphemism in public messaging does not invalidate a legitimate response dedicated to counter-terrorism and anti-genocide. If you cant prove that the Israeli Defense Forces didn’t start out with morals and principles it’ll continue to remain an unproven assertion. And no, I don’t see how “ …innocents are disregarded” when I’ve laid out pretty clearly how the IDF takes every reasonable counter-measure to prevent civilian casualties (reader context – another thread). As such, I fail to see how this hypothetical “brutality” would invalidate a justified self-defense response aimed at preventing genocide after the largest genocide in history against their people.
Really? Does this sound like they are only talking about Hamas?
“It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” Herzog said at a press conference on Friday. “It is not true this rhetoric about civilians not being aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true. They could have risen up. They could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in a coup d’etat.”
In other words, bombs away and civilians be damned.
And you haven’t laid out sh*t about Israel using every reasonable counter-measure to prevent civilian casualties. They haven’t and they don’t. And they’re proving that as we speak. Same with the past. Every conflict with Hamas has resulted in a disproportionate “mowing of the grass” by that “moral and principled” IDF. And that’s is NOT “an unproven assertion“. Do you want numbers?
“Hypothetical” brutality? To only those who ignore reality. Do you not see what is happening in Gaza? It pales in comparison to Hamas’ attack. But, but “counter terrorism/anti genocide”. And when in doubt just whip out the Holocaust card. Always a tell-tale sign that those doing so are grasping for excuses for more Israeli brutality.
Well then he was also talking about how he would have appreciated if people in the area resisted against Hamas, but what he does not do is use your earlier rhetoric against them, as he was still clearly using that language against Hamas. And as for Israel using every reasonable measure to prevent civilian casualties in their counter-terrorism and anti-genocide activities:
Israeli governmental policy toward “Palestinian Resistance” has taken every possible step toward “reconciliation” and general de-escalation, with Israeli security forces even pulling out of Gaza, granting the region effective self-government, their ostensible goal, yet terrorist attacks and calls for genocide from these organizations did not cease. Israeli Security Forces routinely allow children hoping for “martyrdom” to attack their tanks and personnel, strikes against known terrorists use special forces instead of explosives for fear of civilian casualties, something that results in far more military casualties, yet this muted response wouldn’t qualify as self-defense? If killing were truly the reasons for this conflict, wouldn’t the conflict cease when Hamas became the de-facto government in Gaza and gained control of the entire territory of Gaza without an Israeli Security presence?
And if you want some sources:
Okay, here’s one for “Palestinian” rock throwing:
https://disq.us/url?url=htt…
Here’s a somewhat decent analysis that goes into why Israel would clearly not be an “apartheid state”:
https://www.nationalreview….
This article shows how the IDF has used special forces more in recent years, or as they put it “targeted killing” but still:
https://www.globaldefenseco…
I have been making clear and concise arguments for these points and more, so no this would not be “grasping for excuses” as it never has been.
Wow. So, he was “also talking” about how he would have “appreciated” the people rising up against Hamas. And since they didn’t, it’s their own damn fault. I guess it doesn’t matter if they had the capability or not. They should have just committed collective suicide otherwise they’re just as guilty. Never mind that most days their main concern is having food on their tables. But the real convincing argument is that he didn’t use the same rhetoric “again” so he was only talking about Hamas when he previously used that language. Good one. He left out “animals” and “cockroaches” even though he blamed them equally like the “animals” and “cockroaches”. But he didn’t use those words. Real convincing.
I don’t know why you bring up rock throwing. Trying to deflect from the brutality that is presently taking place in Gaza? Or are you praising the IDF for their restraint on shooting children? They certainly don’t have a problem with kicking doors down and hauling them off to jail.
Ever hear of the Jewish Nation State Law? It explicitly says one group has more rights than others. And here’s human rights group take on Israeli apartheid.
Human rights groups have argued that the Israeli government’s policies on land access, restrictions on movement, and limitations on the right to vote meet the ICC’s standard and that it has institutionalized racism against Palestinians in order to ensure Israeli Jews remain the dominant group across Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories (OPT), which includes the West Bank and Gaza.
And you haven’t made any kind of clear and concise arguments. To the contrary. You just repeat what the MSM says and what Israeli officials say. In fact, your replies have been nothing but copy and paste hasbara talking points from those very sources. The carnage continues but it’s justified in your sick mind.
I brought up “rock throwing” as an example of Israel continuing to use every reasonable measure to prevent civilian casualties in their counter-terrorism and anti-genocide activities. And no, statements like “He left out “animals” and “cockroaches” even though he blamed them equally like the “animals” and “cockroaches”” are and continue to be unsupported. And no, a single group’s opinion on the situation is not definitive proof, as here’s another probably more informative analysis:
https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalreview.com%2F2021%2F05%2Fno-israel-is-not-an-apartheid-state%2F%3AaFK6T6N9vRjBoqUz_d9wgZPAlIc&cuid=18764
Claiming I have not made clear and concise arguments when I list sources, evidence and reasons to support my stances is not particularly convincing, as well as claiming that my points would be invalid if another “MSM” source would also have used them. Maybe we’d both be stating them as its the only correct stance in this conflict? And no, in a perfect world this wouldn’t be happening in the first place, and as such its possible to both see how unfortunate the situation is and see that the actions of the Israeli Defense Forces in the aftermath of this tragedy continue to be a reasonable and restrained counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operation.
No point in talking with sheep.
Except I can play the unsubstantiated personal insult game as well:
No point in talking with people who can’t understand what’s going on.
Its not like I’m even too upset at you, online forum user, I just think it would have been nice if more people supported a restrained and reasonable anti-terrorism response. Then again, maybe my first mistake was posting it on a site named “antiwar.com”.
“1,524 children have been killed in the Gaza Strip during these bombings”
I know exactly what’s going on.
Really? Here’s a hypothetical to try and help you understand: what exactly would happen if Israel would not target the civilian infrastructure the non-representative (barely half of the population of Gaza supported a statement of attacking Israel) illegitimate Hamas terrorist organization deliberately hides its weapons, personnel, and equipment in? Answer: Many, more Israeli civilian deaths. Don’t go down that route…
I get it. You’re ok with children being killed as long as they aren’t Israeli children. There is just no other option. Am I right? Even after admitting that half the population doesn’t support Hamas. And you make a sarcastic comment about this site being called “antiwar.com” while cheerleading for more war. Hmmm, there is a word for that. Hypocrite comes to mind.
I’m not in favor of conflict, but at some point there does have to be a right to self-defense. There is a difference between a political conflict between two factions and a “hey, don’t kill innocent individuals” response to terrorism and acts of genocide. Just because its Israeli civilians who are targeted by Hamas does not make their lives worth less, as I have never nor will I ever engage in implying certain lives are worth more or less than others, and to imply I have when I clearly have not is disingenuous and false. That and I do find it ironic your trying to make an argument about a “sarcastic comment” when your username is literally “wars r u.s.”, but what would I know, I’m just talking about the responses that actually prevent casualties.
So, you are saying again that there is no option but to kill children. The only option in your mind is that children in Gaza must die to prevent Israel from further attack. Loud and clear. But you feel really bad though, right? (more of that sarcasm)
And I’m precluded from using sarcasm because my name is sarcastic (at least in your opinion)? How dumb is that?
Can you stop with the disingenuous and false misrepresentations for even a second?
#1) It is Hamas who is hiding their weapons, personnel and equipment near civilians, including children, in the hopes of such an outcome, but given advances in technology and tactics hopefully they will not succeed in producing such a situation.
#2) The Israeli military continues to take all reasonable measures to reduce civilian casualties, something I have very clearly explained to you earlier.
Listen, you don’t have to keep engaging with me if you’re not even going to acknowledge what I’ve been explaining to you, okay? I didn’t come into this thinking I would necessarily convince everyone, and some people just don’t want to see the truth in front of them.
Still telling lies, aye.
Israel said it was intensifying its airstrikes in Gaza ahead of an expected ground invasion. “We will deepen our attacks to minimize the dangers to our forces in the next stages of the war. We are going to increase the attacks from today,”
Israel is killing thousands of civilians in order to reduce IDF casualties.
Nothing false about my accusations. You’re fine with woman and children getting killed in Gaza. You made that clear. Stop trying to make it sound like I put words in your mouth.
Latest media reports citing the Gaza Ministry of Health indicate that the number of people killed in Gaza since 7 October has risen to 5,087.
Women and children have made up more than 62 per cent of the fatalities, while more than 15,273 people have been injured.
Do the math. That’s over 3100 women and children. And yet you keep talking about Hamas hiding amongst them as if that exonerates Israel from their brutality. If you drop thousands upon thousands of bombs in a densely populated area, you KNOW you are going to kill women and children. So, Israel is just doing what Hamas wants? Sure, why not. And how reasonable is killing 62% that are non combatants? I thought Hamas was the terror group.
And you’re not explaining shit to me. What you’re doing is trying your hardest to justify Israel’s obvious disregard for human life.
No, I did not “make it clear” I would be fine with women and children possibly getting killed in the “Gaza” region. The difference between Israel and the terrorist and often genocidal “Palestinian Resistance” is that one of these organizations is dedicated to reducing if not eliminating civilian casualties, while for one of these “factions” thats the entire point. Here’s a hypothetical to try and help you understand:
Your a farmer in Ohio. A local delinquent runs into your farm and purposefully shoots your dog or something while screaming about how he must genocide you, making his intentions very clear. However, while escaping he runs into a crowded mall to try and escape and to plot his next attack, possibly even worse than this one. As the sheriff of the town, if you don’t pursue him he’ll probably do much worse to you or your friends/allies. What will you do?
Sure, you did. You just made excuses as though it just couldn’t be avoided. And the side “dedicated to reducing if not eliminating” (seriously?) civilian casualties has now racked up more than twice as many of those very deaths as compared to the terrorists. And your analogy is beyond f*king stupid.
If your not going to give me a substantive reply I can just copy your tone:
Sure, you’ve definitely proven that “Palestinian Resistance” has absolutely attempted to reduce civilian casualties when it massacres civilians at concerts, in bunkers, in their own homes by rockets and terrorists with automatic rifles. Your current “responses” seem to boil down to pointing out that some aspects of a modern counter-terrorism and anti-genocide response aren’t always able to be executed perfectly or ideally due to the efforts of terrorist and attempted genocide organizations like Hamas, and then just acting as if the side your supporting wouldn’t literally just be pure evil. And perhaps the most noticeable aspect of this is that you call my analogy “stupid” but are unable to answer it in the end. Have you finally realized your absolutely wrong?
I didn’t attempt to prove anything of the sort. You’re making shit up again. And not once did I say I support EITHER side. And downplaying bombing a densely populated area with thousands and thousands of bombes is somehow just something that must be done while attributing all those deaths to Israel not being able to execute them “perfectly” or “ideally”. In other words, those civilian deaths are, once again, ok with you. Spin it how you want, they KNOW they are killing a large percentage of women and children, and they just don’t care. Just like you.
Here’s your dumb ass analogy:
“Your a farmer in Ohio. A local delinquent runs into your farm and purposefully shoots your dog or something while screaming about how he must genocide you, making his intentions very clear. However, while escaping he runs into a crowded mall to try and escape and to plot his next attack, possibly even worse than this one. As the sheriff of the town, if you don’t pursue him he’ll probably do much worse to you or your friends/allies. What will you do?”
Like a fucking third grader came up with it. And what would I do? Certainly not kill anyone that gets in the way of getting the guy that wants to “genocide” me. Try harder.
Say there is terroristic holding of hostages in Michigan. According to Netanyahu you just blow up the entire neighborhood. Everyone is guilty. Including the hostages you are so worried about.
Except that’s not really the case. Netanyahu’s government attempts to use targeted strikes and special forces to reduce civilian casualties, something I’d say they’ve been decently successful at so far. If you want some examples of them attempting this here’s one: https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-news-hamas-war-10-13-23/h_f9e0546abc0270b38c859ad8c80fa0d9.
That’s hilarious. Unless you consider civilians targets, then we agree.
Israel’s ambassador to the UN saying that Israeli forces are attempting to reduce civilian casualties is not evidence that Israeli forces are attempting to reduce casualties. Politicians lie all the time.
No, it would not be a “lie” as the Israeli Defense Forces have followed through on the promise to warn civilians of what actions they need to take in order to remain safe. Here’s an example: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-tells-gazans-move-south-or-risk-being-seen-terrorist-partner-2023-10-22/.
“Leave your homes or we will murder you” is not an “attempt to reduce casualties.” It’s just an announcement of intent to murder anyone who doesn’t do what you say.
(*Sigh*)
Okay, if you disapprove of that, what genius solution would you have in mind? There are terrorist and genocidal organizations hiding weapons, personnel and equipment in those homes, and as such there is a pressing need for a self-defense justified strike to prevent further casualties.
What does my “disapproval” have to do with anything?
Noticing facts, such as the fact that Hamas and the Israeli regime are both violent terrorist organizations who murder at will whenever they think it may get them what they want, does not in any way obligate me to propose “alternatives.”
No, terrorism is the act or process of attempting to use fear, violence, or threats of violence, especially against civilians, in order to achieve usually political goals. The Israeli Defense Forces do not purposefully target civilian infrastructure, they are targeting Hamas while attempting every reasonable measure to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties due to Hamas hiding their weapons, equipment and personnel within civilian infrastructure in order to exploit this to the press and the world. The Israeli Defense Forces do not and will not “murder at will”, and to imply they do is at best false and at worst actively dishonest.
“terrorism is the act or process of attempting to use fear, violence, or threats of violence, especially against civilians, in order to achieve usually political goals.”
In other words, what all governments do all day long, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.
Okay, you have your political opinions. Nearly all methods of stable social organization have systems of behavior and rules, but you’ve apparently hit on something no-one else has been able to! I’m asking you to put aside the whole “statism is terrorism” opinion in the context of an actual terrorist attack proportionally 7 times worse than 9/11 was for America for Israel.
I’m far from the only one to notice that statism or terrorism.
I’m not sure why you think that “proportionally worse than 9/11” should be some kind of trigger. 9/11 was also a case of a bunch of innocent people finding out after the terrorist state that ruled them had spent decades fucking around.
Okay, I guess you can’t properly condemn the loss of innocent life. The United States government made a mistake supporting the Mujahideen during the Cold War, something I’d wager not many people on this site would disagree with, yet none of that should stop the proper condemnation of the death of innocent civilians without some weird “both sides” garbage about the context of social organizations that people can simply change in a democratic system.
I properly condemn ALL the loss of innocent life.
You excuse the loss of innocent life when the gang you support does the killing, and only condemn it when the opponents of the gang you support are responsible.
Okay, I guess you both can’t properly condemn the loss of innocent civilians or understand or process what I’ve been saying. If your taking this in the tired and already disproven “statism is terrorism” direction, yes, the state of Israel and the Israeli Defense Forces have social rules and norms they can expect people to follow. However, if for example you were to not complete mandatory military service, the worst you would receive would be a fine or imprisonment, as the death penalty has only been given twice in Israel, with one case later overturned. Notice how none of that would be relevant when a terrorist and genocidal organization attempts to attack and genocide the population, killing approximately 1,000 innocents civilians and taking more hostage. Notice the date on the link I previously posted when the Israeli military gave innocent civilians time to flee. Notice how I’ve also never “supported” the deaths of innocent civilians as well. This is yet another unsupported accusation, and as such is both dishonest and false.
I do “properly condemn the loss of innocent civilians.” Every time. No matter who murders them.
You condemn the loss of innocent civilians when the gang you don’t like kills them and make excuses when the gang you do like kills them.
So after I’ve listed extensive points and reasoning, you just repeated the exact same reply you previously “posted”. Okay, but your not proving anything.
If you intensely criticize only one side of a conflict it can become a reasonable assumption that you’d support the other one. And no, I have never “downplayed” civilian deaths, as I’d say both me and the Israeli Defense Forces would find them incredibly unfortunate, with the Israeli Defense Forces taking every reasonable measure to reduce if not eliminate them. Additionally, I find it ironic that you once again criticize my writing style, which was not going for a Pulitzer prize, while misspelling “bombes”. Since you’ve proved my point with your response here’s how it would end:
After refusing to pursue the individual who recently attempted to “genocide” you and killed a member of your household, he escapes to his backer named “Iran”, who has previously sworn to destroy you through a strategy of a “death by a thousand cuts”. He provides advanced training, equipment and weapons to try and help him achieve his terrorist and genocidal goals. As you walk into the city hall, a simultaneous bomb and missile attack strikes it, killing you and everyone in it due to both the explosions and your refusal to protect yourself and the town. Many people die due to your decisions. But somehow, in some way, the people of the town understand that this was the decision of an online commenter who either didn’t understand what was occuring or didn’t understand what needed to be done. In other words, you’ve failed to protect both yourself and others. Hopefully this can help you understand what’s currently occurring.
” And no, I have never “downplayed” civilian deaths”
Liar!
Israelis want genocide.
Since October 7, calls for flattening Gaza have been rampant among the Israeli leadership and widely espoused across the population. On October 12, Israeli Channel 12 published a report about how the desire to ethnically cleanse Gaza has taken hold in Israeli popular culture:
“People from the political left and center have called for the flattening of Gaza this week. A very short post fantasizing about a nature party that would take place on what was Gaza land received 100 thousand likes and 60 thousand shares”. The young Tel-Aviv woman who posted on Instagram had only 700 followers, but then the post “exploded”. She claims to be a centrist who “has always sanctified human rights, compassion is the first emotion that is activated in me”, she says. “I do not want to kill Gazan babies, I never hated Arabs and it’s not like I started hating them this week. But after what happened, I say to the Gaza residents – your babies are your problem”.
This sentiment seems to match quite well with broad calls from Israeli politicians for collective punishment, which have been coming from across the political spectrum, including those considered centrist or liberal.
Meanwhile, while the world’s eyes are on Gaza, ethnic cleansing is also being realized in the West Bank by Israeli settlers and soldiers. The terrorizing of mostly rural Palestinian communities in the West Bank had resulted in the uprooting of several communities before October 7 but has accelerated greatly since, with some 545 Palestinians forcibly displaced from at least 13 communities since October 7, according to information from the West Bank Protection Consortium (WBPC) and Israeli human rights organization Yesh Din (cited by Al Jazeera). The murderous settler attacks against Palestinians in the West Bank have gotten relatively little attention, like the murder of four Palestinians in Qusra on October 11 and then the murder of a Palestinian father and his son at the funeral. The number of killed Palestinians in the West Bank since October 7 is nearing 100 — in two weeks — an unfathomable pace.
“Some Israelis want genocide.”
Fixed, no charge.
Not much of a fix. I never claimed all.
I criticize Israel because you give them a free pass. I have no use for Hamas and haven’t even remotely implied that I support them. That’s just you trying to read something into my comments to fit your own narrative. And you downplay the deaths every time you say that Hamas is using civilians as human shields. You’re excusing Israel for those deaths even though you, and the IDF, know the majority of deaths are going to be civilians. And then you have the gall to say the IDF forces are taking “every reasonable measure to reduce if not ELIMINATE ” those deaths. That’s like putting a bullet through a can of sardines and thinking there is a possibility that you won’t hit a sardine(an accurate analogy). There is no reasonable measure and eliminating those deaths is an impossibility. And me misspelling a word doesn’t have anything to do with writing style.
Your analogy explanation skirts around killing civilians which was the subject matter. Your third grader version asked what a sheriff should do if he chased a man trying to “genocide” someone into a crowded Mall. We were talking about killing innocents. And that version sounded like you would think the sheriff should disregard life, just like Israel does, and fire away. Innocents be damned.
No, I have not and do not give Israel a “free pass”. Stating facts and context surrounding the deaths of civilian casualties does not “downplay” them, and to state otherwise in a conversation surrounding them is dishonest and false. The Israeli Defense Forces absolutely take every reasonable measure to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties, as they’ve warned “Gaza” residents to evacuate through physical and electronic messaging and given them the time to do so. And no, my analogy would not be false or inaccurate, as missile and drone technology as well as targeting are improving and as such it would be more of a clean shot with a small element of risk. Also, if you truly think eliminating civilian casualties would be an “impossibility”, why would you be criticizing their response in the first place? Innocent lives have always been held at a very high level of importance to the Israeli Defense Forces, the prevention of which is actually the reason for the current conflict.
You certainly are giving them a free pass. That’s why you continue to skirt around how many children they have killed. Thousands of children. So, their “reasonable measure to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties” is NOT working. Or are that many dead children acceptable to you?
“Innocent lives have always been held at a very high level of importance to the Israeli Defense Forces, the prevention of which is actually the reason for the current conflict.”
Yes, Israeli lives. More justification for killing children. Fighting terror with terror.
Try reading this:
https://original.antiwar.com/solomon/2023/10/23/hamas-is-a-terrorist-organization-so-is-the-israeli-government/
I don’t think I’ve ever given Israel a “free pass”. After reading the article you posted, I don’t think it appeared very convincing either. Terrorism is the act or process of attempting to use fear, violence, or threats of violence, especially against civilians, in order to achieve usually political goals. The Israeli Defense Forces do not purposefully target civilian infrastructure, they are targeting Hamas while attempting every reasonable measure to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties due to Hamas hiding their weapons, equipment and personnel within civilian infrastructure in order to exploit this to the press and the world. As such, full responsibility for any and all loss of innocent lives rests solely on the terrorist and genocidal organization that routinely tries to sacrifice them to achieve its political goals: Hamas. And I would not consider their measures as “not working” when probably much more civilians would have died if Israel didn’t use some of their measures, such as sending text-message warnings to civilians in areas they were about to target. Something doesn’t have to be “acceptable” if you know it might be your only option to prevent worse. Additionally, this is not the first time genocidal organizations like Hamas have tried to hide behind civilians, as the Nazi’s in World War 2 also tried to hide behind civilian infrastructure when they were collapsing in Germany. The Allies didn’t fall for it then, and the Israeli government, a government created almost exclusively to prevent the atrocities they commited, certainly isn’t today.
You don’t have to keep repeating yourself. You’re justifying the killing of woman and children. I get it.
So your just going to hyper-fixate on one specific unfortunate aspect of the Israeli counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations casued by Hamas deliberately trying to achieve that despite the Israeli military trying all reasonable measures to prevent it? Sometimes the real world isn’t perfect, and there’s no magic solution to an issue that doesn’t come with serious drawbacks. Israel and the Israeli military have always been dedicated to finding and implementing the best solutions to their issues, sometimes there just simply is no ideal option that saves everyone.
Yes, just an “unfortunate aspect”. Followed by you repeating yourself, ONCE AGAIN, the justifications for killing woman and children. If you repeat it enough, you might even believe it yourself. Just say it. Don’t sugarcoat it as “drawbacks”(cute word for death). You’re ok with thousands upon thousands of women and children getting killed.
I hate to continue making the World War 2 comparisons, but how many women and children do you think died when there wasn’t particularly an organized resistance during the Holocaust? When the Allies stormed the Axis on D-Day to prevent tragedies like the ones previously mentioned from occurring, how many civilian casualties do you think there were? Tens of thousands of civilians were killed, with upwards of 11,000 killed in pre-breach strikes and 15,000 to 20,000 killed during the attack itself, something that isn’t even particularly mentioned today (https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/d-day-deaths.html). Yet would that mean an Allied response would be unjustified? While I understand its “in vogue” currently on this “thread” to criticize precision strikes for not being able to be 10,000% precision 15,000% no civilian casualties, you have to understand they’re a huge improvement on this issue historically and can hopefully only improve further.
Nice try. You can’t lessen Israel’s brutality. It stays the same no matter how you want to spin it. Israel is bombing a very small area with a very dense population, a majority of women and children, with thousands upon thousands of bombs. Bibi even bragged the bombings increased and Israel had a banner day. That is what you condone. Thinking that is the answer is the difference between you and me.
It is specifically that area in which Hamas is choosing to hide. Where else are they supposed to be striking? And no, trying to take Netanyahu celebrating his country’s counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations that take every reasonable measure to prevent civilian casualties would not invalidate them. Maybe if it was something like: “I congratulate the military on unfortunately causing civilian casualties” you might have a point, but as such you don’t appear to. I fail to see when I would have ever not demonstrated concern for civilian casualties throughout Israel’s self-defense operations, and as such that would not appear to be a difference.
And once more you condone Israel knowingly killing human shields. Israel has dropped thousands upon thousands of bombs on a very small area that is densely populated with a large percentage of civilians which includes 47% of those who are under 18. And Netanyahu boasting about an increase in brutality is just explained away by you with more hasbara talking points. Never mind even more innocents will die. Keep ignoring that fact that thousands of children have already been killed and keep repeating those hasbara points and maybe you’ll convince yourself that knowingly killing women and children is something you can explain away. And saying that you are concerned for those deaths is something I find hard to believe. Somewhere in your sick mind you have justified the deliberate killing of woman and children. And yes DELIBERATE.
Okay, since you appear to be making a somewhat sincere effort to convince me on this issue, I’ll tell you a few more things about myself I know from living 24/7 through my p.o.v.. In real life, I actually detest moral quandaries without simple solutions, and I hate hypotheticals like the trolley problem. My great-grandfather actually died over many years from a grenade shard latched near his heart from service in the Red Army during World War 2, and over time it kept on getting closer and closer. However, in this specific case it is very clear that there is specifically one (effective) way to fight the terrorist and genocidal organization known as Hamas, and that is striking them where they choose to hide from justified self-defense after giving the civilian population sufficient time and warning to flee. I’ve never ignored that there have been some civilian deaths, but at a certain point what exactly are the Israeli Defense Forces supposed to do, airlift them out of an area littered with rockets and loitering munitions? I know the Israeli Defense Forces do not deliberately target women and children, because if they did, wouldn’t they have just nuked “Gaza” and have been done with it? Compare that to their actual behavior and you’ll notice that plenty of IDF pilots express remorse for civilian casualties caused by terrorist and genocidal organizations like Hamas hiding their weapons, personnel and equipment in civilian infrastructure, and subsequently you’ll notice those accusations are absolutely not true.
Will you please f*cking stop. There is no place to flee. The strip is 139 square miles with 2 million people packed inside its borders. And flee to what? Israel is bombing the south too and the aid trucks let in aren’t nearly enough to even put a dent on supplying the number of people in need. You refuse to acknowledge that, so it gives you reason to condone the brutality. And they don’t nuke them because they are right next door and they wouldn’t escape the resulting contamination of their own territory. But you’re ok with relentless bombing because the pilots show remorse after they drop their loads even though they know god damned good and well what they are dropping their load on. WOMAN AND CHILDREN. It doesn’t get any more DELIBERATE than that.
I mean, I can keep going for as long as you wish to keep replying to me, online forum user, so if you sincerely wish for me to “stop” you can presumably just go on with the other things I presume are in your life. And no, the story about the convoy explosion being caused by Israel is not valid, as there has not been enough evidence to determine conclusively which “side” would have been responsible (https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fworld-middle-east-67114281%29%3A89o1QR0htyvWHx36MuhBhWypGyU&cuid=18764). Israel has extensively warned and informed the residents of “Gaza” that they might not be able to provide enough supplies and/or safety guarantees if they choose to remain in areas that are likely to become conflict zones, and despite this has additionally taken every reasonable measure to prevent civilian casualties for the sections of the population who deliberately choose to remain in what certainly appears to be becoming a conflict-zone, severely limiting Israel’s practical options to protect them. Furthermore, the nuclear strike scenario by a legitimately evil Israel wouldn’t be as impractical as you seem to imply it would be: they could simply evacuate all of the territories close to the border as they have been doing with areas close to the Iranian-backed proxy Hezbollah organization, and then had residents remain in basements or bunkers (which are a feature of some communities), as this was what occured in some areas of the Soviet Union during the Chernobyl nuclear meltdown. You don’t have to be “okay” with something to recognize when it’s the best option available in a tragic and unfortunate situation for nearly all parties involved.
I’ll keep replying as long as you spew bullsh*t. And the convoy explosion has nothing to do with aid not being promptly sent into Gaza. That was Israel’s decision. They had to be persuaded to allow aid in at all. That’s how thoroughly their brutality is entrenched. Israel did extensively warn Gazans of their impending doom. Their choices boiled down to where they wanted to die and how. Bombed to bits or slowly starve to death. But the IDF taking precautions is the get out of jail free card for you. Never mind no precautions can be taken to stop thousands of children from being killed, the lip service is all that’s needed. That way, sick bastards like yourself can point to that as proof that them getting killed is their own damn fault. Now bombs away. But remember Gazans, the IDF feels remorse. But hey, it is the “best” option after all.
Your definition of “promptly” appears to be an opinion biased against Israel, and as such appears to carry little weight. If you’re going to continue going down this route, you need to understand what the word “responsibility” means. If someone guns down your entire community and proceeds to barricade themselves inside of your grocery store with hostages, it’s not law enforcements at fault if there are casualties in the ensuing operations, especially if they take every reasonable measure to prevent them. And as you’ve continued to be unable to “prove” this would not be their best option available in an unfortunate and tragic situation, that consistently continues to remain a valid point. If you’d want further context on the situation I actually have a “medium.com” story on this issue, just don’t give it a “thumbs-down” or anything as I don’t want the algorithm to not promote it or anything (I’m not particularly aware of how “medium.com” works anyways): https://medium.com/p/2c6216f03de7.
There is no need for analogies. Israel either uses collective punishment that they know will kill thousands upon thousands of innocents or they don’t. They’ve made their choice. You condone it as the best option. Says plenty about them and you.
And no need for distortions as well. You’re essentially saying the equivalent of “look at poor Berlin, you must be okay with tens of thousands of innocent blue-eyed Aryans losing their lives” (https://www.worldwar2facts.org/battle-of-berlin.html). No, there is obviously a wider context and reasoning for why forces like the Allies would be using tactics like that. If you simply let the genocidal regime survive and subsequently plot against you and others, that says a lot about you and your ability to understand the world.
I didn’t distort anything. You distort things with your ridiculous analogies. Comparing Hamas to Hitler is beyond stupid. Israel is bombing a largely civilian population that can’t defend itself. It’s 139 square miles with 2 million people, largely woman and children, packed in its borders. The genocidal regime you refer to, Hamas, doesn’t have the capability to wage a genocidal attack. Israel, on the other hand, is showing you what a genocidal attack looks like. But keep ignoring reality.
Except you’re never able to explain why this would be an inaccurate analogy. Both explicitly call for the genocide of a certain religous people in their charters (https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msn.com%2Fen-us%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Funderstanding-hamas-s-genocidal-ideology%2Far-AA1i0jaZ%3AcPp2dhnOy1Q8glT4lLsWw9c-1jw&cuid=18764). Both have an army dedicated to them and their extremist goals, with Hamas having an army of approximately 30,000 members according to senior Israeli officials (https://www.itv.com/news/2023-10-11/how-do-the-israeli-military-and-hamas-compare-in-size-and-strength). Both achieved unexpected early victories, only to get lodged, overwhelmed, and forced to retreat after successful counter-attacks, eventually hiding behind civilian infrastructure and refusing to surrender despite their overwhelming disadvantages and the human toll their tactics would take on the civilian population they’re attempting to hide amongst. And Hamas isn’t the only enemy of Israel intent on this outcome: Iran has provided weapons, personnel, equipment and training to many of its proxy forces in its attempt to eliminate Israel through a “death by a thousand cuts” strategy, to where perhaps if any are able to sufficiently weaken Israel it itself would become directly involved (this would not be particularly surprising, as Iran has recently “congratulated” Hamas on the terrorist and genocidal activities it has been committing against Israel). If pointing out all of the facts and reasoning involved in understanding this situation would be “ignoring reality”, then that would be something I’m glad to continue doing.
You can’t be serious. Comparing the militaries of Hamas’ 30, 000 and the millions that served in Germany’s is a piss poor attempt at an analogy if there ever was one. Hamas doesn’t have the capability, not even close, to carry out a genocidal invasion of Israel. Maybe if they had an air force or navy but hey, THEY DON’T. Your problem is you can’t find anything to compare to what Israel is presently doing in Gaza no matter how hard you try. Israel is bombing, at will, a 139 square mile area where over 2 million inhabitants, largely WOMAN and CHILDREN are trapped. Now THAT is what a genocidal invasion looks like. But you won’t address that reality, so you come up with ridiculous analogies and even an unbelievable attempt at comparing Hamas’ “military” capability to that of Hitler’s Germany. Hard to take you for anything more than a piss poor hasbara troll or just a rabid Israeli firster. Either way, you refuse to face the fact that thousands upon thousands of women and children are being slaughtered. That IS reality.
I’m very serious, and don’t call me surely. So your “response” here would just be to ignore the consistent points and reasoning I’ve been making. Firstly, as I’ve already clearly pointed out, Hamas is one of several terrorist and genocidal organizations Iran has funded in its attempts to weaken Israel through its “death by a thousand cuts” strategy, including Hezzbolah and “Palestinian islamic jihad”. And Iran certainly has both a navy and an air force, with them even going as far as attempting provocative maneuvers against U.S. government-owned ships with theirs (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/iran-u-s-warships-first-tense-mideast-encounter-year-n1265441) and using their air-force in more provocation attempts against the U.S. in the region (https://www.thenationalnews.com/mena/iraq/2022/09/28/iran-attacks-groups-in-northern-iraq-in-new-drone-bombing-campaign/), as well as their “proxies” directly attacking U.S. troops with drones (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iranian-proxies-continue-attacks-against-us-troops-in-middle-east-following-us-strikes/ar-AA1j6aNl). Your attempted “point” that not necessarily every single Israeli citizen would be able to be eliminated by these terrorist and genocidal organizations is also null, as that does not invalidate nor would it ever invalidate the seriousness and scope of the threat Israel is currently facing. The Holocaust was clearly a threat to the Jewish people, and this is widely acknowledged despite the fact that a significant portion of the Jewish population at the time was in North America where they were in relatively little danger from that specific threat. And no, you don’t have to have two factions be completely the same if they are generally similar in ideology and hatred and share a similar trait in attempting to hide behind civilian infrastructure in a desperate attempt to escape defeat in order to make an effective comparison. There is and continues to only be one reality, the question simply remains if your able to recognize it for what it is.
Once again calling mass punishment “reasonable”. And once again ignoring the only thing that resembles any sort of genocide is being carried out by the IDF with the continuous bombing of a 139 square mile piece of land that contains over 2 million people that are made up largely of woman and children. That is what is happening and is being verified by humanitarian groups. Something Israel and the US are squirming to ignore just like you do. And trying to inflate the dangers that Israel faces or bringing up the holocaust won’t change that FACT.
So if law enforcement attempts to eliminate a school shooter when they are an active danger to themselves and others, after practically begging everyone in the building to leave and giving them adequate time and warning to, would the authorities be committing a “genocide” of the school’s culture if they eventually have to continue their response against the deadly threat despite innocents deliberately refusing their instructions to keep them safe? There’s no need to “inflate” the dangers facing the people of Israel and their groups around the world, anyone who understands what actually occurred on October 7th and on other terrorist and genocidal attacks like it understands the evolving situation and the risks it poses quite well.
Why do you keep using analogies? Especially ones where you seem to think Gazans had some place to seek refuge. They didn’t. The south was also being bombed. And even if they did have safe refuge, it’s still a piss poor analogy. Why in the fuck wouldn’t people leave a school with an active shooter? The comparison is mind numbing and proves you are grasping at straws. Israel’s atrocities stand alone. They are bombing a 139 square mile area with over 2 million inhabitants which are largely woman and children. No need to compare Hamas to Hitler or some shooter in a school or someone who shoots your dog and runs into a crowded mall or any other stupid shit you can possibly come up with. Israel’s attack on Gaza is genocidal in nature. Period.
Israel had given the general population ample time and warning to evacuate, it is the terrorist and genocidal organization known as Hamas that has been well documented to try and purposefully force civilians to remain in conflict-zones despite the inherent danger present: https://youtu.be/kaK4muqkRBE. They have been documented shooting at those who would disobey those edicts and attempt to escape. And no, my school shooter analogy would not be inaccurate, as thats the equivalent of them locking the doors/safe exits in the building. You can believe Israel would not be performing its counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations that take every reasonable measure to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties well, although that would appear to be an exceptionally weak opinion given that you also appear unable to offer any valid alternative to their current actions, but that Israel would be committing “genocide” in the region after I have explained to you the numerous well documented ways and techniques they have consistently used to attempt to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties would appear to be an exceptionally weak assertion, and as such you would need to provide extensive reasoning and evidence to even begin to effectively prove such a major claim. But once again, you appear to be unable to, as in the real world there are facts and there are interpretations and only one of us appears to be able to recognize this so far.
Thank you for making my point. It takes another level of depravity for Israel to continue the bombardment even after knowing that innocents are being held there against their will. Saying that Gazans who were killed because they wouldn’t leave being justified is cold hearted but saying that Gazans getting killed because they weren’t allowed to flee as being justified is sickening. And stop with your nonsensical hasbara talking points. It’s just bullshit gibberish. Look at the god damn number of people killed before you talk your genocide garbage/taking every precaution bullshit. And I don’t have to give you any alternative options for this conflict. Collective punishment that allows for mass civilian casualties certainly isn’t the answer.
Hannibal Directive.
Think about it. They claim Hamas is everywhere and why they have to sacrifice Palestinian civilians. But if Hamas is everywhere and they are indiscriminately bombing, that also means Israeli hostages. They are talking out of both sides of their mouths or they really don’t give a fuck about killing the hostages, it’s part of the operation.
If they don’t attack Hamas there may be even more casualties. I fail to see the disproval of the Israeli Defense Forces here.
I know you’re all in for genocide.
(*Sigh*)
I know I’m on posting this on a site named “antiwar.com”, but at some point there should be support for a justified self-defense response aimed at preventing terrorism and genocide after the largest genocide in history against the people currently living in Israel. I am absolutely not and have never been for actions such as “genocide”, I’ve been decently clear that I’ve been discussing a completely different response.
Over 2000 children killed is not precision bombing. Neither is starvation and lack of food and water. No one is buying what you are selling:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xsZPWsVNTqo&pp=ygUtamFjayBuaWNob2xzb24gY2xpcCBzZWxsIGNyYXp5IHNvbWV3aGVyZSBlbHNl
Answer this one question then: What happens if Benjamin Netanyahu does not respond or attack Hamas? Sometimes its much easier to criticize a response than to offer any sort of reasonable alternative.
It’s pointless to do what ifs about a fascist who was clear about taking over Gaza.
Okay, Nehtanyahu expressed his hope that “Gaza” should be under Israeli control after that not being the case directly lead to an attack proportionally 7 times worse than 9/11 was for America for Israel. That neither proves that Nehtanyahu would be a “fascist” or invalidates their counter-terrorism and anti-genocide response to the previously mentioned tragedy. In a situation in which you imply a response would be unreasonable or evil it is quite reasonable to ask what you would propose, and as such your silence on the matter is notable.
How can I respond to a comment based on lies?
Okay, if you view a “commentary” that has consistently sourced and attempted to reasonably explain its assertions as “lies”, you don’t have to respond to it. Not responding to it would, however, not invalidate a counter-terrorism and anti-genocide response that takes every reasonable measure to reduce civilian casualties in its attempts to reduce civilain deaths specifically caused and orchestrated by terrorist and genocidal organizations.
The next time I see you provide any evidence whatsoever that the IDF “takes every reasonable measure to reduce civilian casualties” will be the first time.
“The IDF says it takes every reasonable measure to reduce civilian casualties” is not evidence that the IDF takes every reasonable measure to reduce civilian casualties.
Okay, here’s them warning residents of areas that could be targeted through various means, such as leaflets and general text-message alerts, as well as making sure that humanitarian aid can reach residents as they give them enough time to evacuate the area: https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.politico.com%2Fnews%2F2023%2F10%2F21%2Fidf-prepares-for-ground-invasion-00122881%29%3ARpKz3dOgZjTGfcazjnzgDbfZwAc&cuid=18764. They are clearly using all reasonable measures to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties in their counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations, something that has been and has never not been supported.
As I point out in a different comment, Hamas has also been known to warn residents of areas that could be targeted. And I’ve never heard of Hamas interfering with humanitarian aid coming into Israel. And Hamas has given Israelis 36 years to evacuate.
So you seem to be asserting that the IDF is exactly like Hamas. I’m not sure I’d personally go that far.
No, this continues to be absolute garbage for the simple reason that Hamas would have no valid claim to the territory of Israel the same way they continue to have no valid claim to the territory of “Gaza”, as they have long since abandoned democratic representation and not held an election since almost a decade ago (barely half of the population of “Gaza” supported a statement of attacking Israel). If they have no valid political justification for attacking Israel they have no valid right to strike it. And no, they didn’t “interfere” with humanitarian aid because they have been well documented to take portions of it. These attempts at “responses” continue to be cruel, vile, dishonest and false.
“These attempts at ‘responses’ continue to be cruel, vile, dishonest and false.”
True. But you can keep working on improving them.
Can you quit it with your other generic “reply” of taking part of a “comment” out of context and then parodying it. Maybe if this was on a lighter “conversation” I’d give you more leeway, but when this is put in the context of what’s currently occurring, it’s just not funny. Just stop.
I don’t need “leeway” from you. If you don’t find me mocking you to be funny, feel free to not laugh.
Okay, can I just ask you to not keep repeating your opinions on how “statism is terrorism” into the discussion of a 9/11 level terrorist and genocidal event and its proportional response. Everyone who has read more than a couple of your comments is aware of your opinions on this, and as such it wouldn’t appear to be particularly illuminating for you to repeat them again.
Ask for anything you want.
Getting it, not so much.
If you don’t want to read what I write, feel free to use the block/ignore button.
(*Sigh*)
It’s a lie that they are trying to avoid civilian casualties. They are intentionally starving, bombing and killing them.
You have zero credibility. zero.
No, in certain cases they have actually sent specific text-message warnings to civilians around residential areas they might target in addition to more general warnings delivered to the population and time they have given them to evacuate (https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/21/idf-prepares-for-ground-invasion-00122881). And is that alleged starvation of the civilian population before or after they let humanitarian aid into the area to specifically help them (supported in my previously linked article)? If this is what having zero-credibility is like I could grow used to it.
Lies, they gave people very little time to evacuate told them to go south and then bombed the south. And a couple of trucks of measly aid is bullshit.
Your propaganda is weak.
No, Israel did not bomb the convoy truck you appear to be referring to as there has not been enough conclusive evidence to determine who would be behind the strike, and you are attempting to assign blame to a specific party (https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fworld-middle-east-67114281%29%3A89o1QR0htyvWHx36MuhBhWypGyU&cuid=18764). No, Israel would not have given people very little time to evacuate as preparations for a ground offensive and evacuation orders appear to have begun around October 14th and it is noticeably currently October 25th with no ground offensive yet launched (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-14/israel-is-preparing-for-significant-ground-operation-in-gaza?leadSource=uverify%20wall). You can call the trucks any adjective you wish, but that does not deny the fact they are supporting the continuous evacuation of the civilian population from areas that might become conflict-zones if those civilians wish to. As I was saying, if this is what “weak propaganda” is like, I can only hope to aspire to such a high standard.
You have no standards because you lie. With that, I’m done. Enjoy your bloodlust.
Ah, the devastating unsupported accusation. Many users have tried on me, yet few have succeeded as well at it as you have. I’ll be sure to continue my “bloodlust” of supporting justified self-defense counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations dedicated to the prevention of further losses of innocent lives though, as I’ve had it from good sources that it matches the incredibly high standards and aspirations of “weak propoganda” and “zero-credibility”.
Looking back I think I might have been a little bit too sarcastic in this reply, and subsequently not done justice to the numerous examples of factual and reasoned stances and statements I’ve made. Regardless, Israel continues to be both moral and restrained in its justified self-defense operations, and as such the world can only continue to support it.
In certain cases Hamas has sent specific text-message warnings to civilians in areas they were about to hit with rockets (Ashkelon, for example — see ttps://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/25/israel-hamas-telegram-removes-hamas-channels-on-android.html)). And Hamas has been sending “general warnings” to Israelis to “evacuate” their homes since 1987. Does that mean that Hamas “takes every reasonable measure to reduce civilian casualties?”
This is bad-faith idiocy. Under the legitimate and ratified creation of the state of Israel, supported by the U.N., an institution created almost specifically for the purpose of supporting Israel, the state of Israel and only the state of Israel controls the territory defined to be under the control of the state of Israel. What the state of Israel is doing currently has not been and has never been in any way specified/stated or done in any way that would imply it would either be part of expanding its territory or targetting any ethnic groups. Did Hamas warn the residents of areas when it massacred innocent civilians at concerts, in bunkers, in their own homes by rockets and terrorists with automatic rifles? This “response” is both dishonest and false, and should be treated as such.
“This is bad-faith idiocy”
Thanks for the warning label. You should consider putting it on ALL your posts!
“the state of Israel and only the state of Israel controls the territory defined to be under the control of the state of Israel.”
True. Here’s that territory:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b591fd03c7329f9c943f2abd946050a00c6ccbad7a25a2d55bd33900add552aa.jpg
Okay, here’s a map showing the areas Hamas targeted in its strikes. Notice how almost none of these areas would be under your “map”, something that wouldn’t have even been relevant in the first place as the terrorist and genocidal organization known as Hamas has long since abandoned democratic representation and not held an election since almost a decade ago, but somehow if they would have been sacrificing innocent civilians of areas they would have controlled it would have been okay? Your “responses” on this topic continue to be both cruel and vile, and deserve to be treated as such. I think I “appreciated” interacting with you more when you were complimenting my musical taste than spouting pseudo-terrorist propaganda. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7aba38928bbbd3a541e7d75faebebd177a537200031f63b08f4f9eb7b835e4e6.jpg
The next time you see me attempting to justify Hamas’s actions will be the first time. And there won’t be a first time.
Can you possibly quit it with the generic “I don’t support Hamas” statement. You mock the legitimate attempts of the Israeli Defense Forces to reduce civilian casualties through regurgitating Hamas’s sick parodying of their actions for purely propaganda purposes, and then just say the equivalent of “I don’t support Hamas” after acting like you didn’t do anything. Stop it. It’s not “edgy”, and it wouldn’t make you “cool” or whatever it is you’re attempting to do.
You and I are, like an atheist and a monotheist, not that far apart — I support one less terrorist organization than you do.
BTW, almost 3000 people were killed on 9/11 and the response from the US government was wrong and grotesque.
I didn’t imply no response. But it’s pointless to pretend that killing everyone is the only answer.
Good point.
You’re such a lying pig.
(*Sigh*)
On the topic of ending conversations, how about that, dream joe “world zionist conspiracy” hill. If your entire repertoire is going to consist of not understanding when your “points” have been addressed and attempts at personal insults, now could be as good a time as any.
1,837 children have been killed as of yesterday.
It’s undoubtedly over 2,000 today.
That’s what your defending.
You think you’ve proven that their deaths were necessary and even moral.
And throughout, you maintain an arrogant delusion of intellectual superiority.
Seems like you want to “not see” dead babies.
.
(*Sigh*)
How many people died in the Holocaust? Oh right, approximately 6 million. Its possible to both lament the unfortunate consequences of certain Hamas tactics designed to increase civilian casualties in areas they illegally occupy and see the necessity of attacking them to prevent worse tragedies. But I wasn’t even responding to you, you’re just trying to repeat the same disproven talking points.
“How many people died in the Holocaust? Oh right, approximately 6 million.”
Try 14 million.
I looked it up and I was right: approximately 6 million Jewish people were killed in the Holocaust with approximately 17 million people killed by the Holocaust in general (https://www.statista.com/topics/9066/the-holocaust/#topicOverview). On another topic, could we leave off on a good note? Aside from a single baited story, you seem like a decent individual, and even though we probably wouldn’t agree exactly politically I wouldn’t want to maybe come off poorly and everything. Sound good?
Mirror only values some lives.
Those 2000 dead children aren’t responsible for the holocaust. Israel can’t hide their mass slaughter of children behind the holocaust, and you can’t hide your endorsement of this heinous killing behind it either.
This is so tiring. No-one on the Israeli side benefits or wants children to have died. No-one on the Israeli side in any particular position of power or competent mental capacity denies that some civilian casualties have occurred due to Hamas tactics designed to increase civilian casualties in areas they illegally occupy, such as hiding weapons, personnel and equipment in civilian infrastructure. The issue is that if terrorist and genocidal organizations like Hamas aren’t eliminated they can just pop another batch of Captagon and kill many, many more than would currently be hurt or dead. The real world isn’t perfect. Grow up!
” No-one on the Israeli side benefits or wants children to have died. ”
Bullshit. The murderous racists in Israel are constantly calling for the deaths of Palestinian children, but the Zionist controlled media doesn’t report it.
Except you noticeably cant support your outlandish assertion that the Israeli government “constantly [calls] for the deaths of Palestinian children”. Figures, as it wasn’t even true in the first place.
I didn’t write anything about the Israeli government, but there are plenty of Israelis, often Rabbis, who have publicly referred to Palestinian children as terrorists in the making and called for their deaths as well. It’s clear what the fascist settlers think about the matter.
Your lies lack credibility.
So your back to citing random individuals, as you still have yet to prove these sorts of incidents would be anything beyond isolated, unfortunate events. Figures.
On the other hand, its not very surprising. Its hard to prove a point when the truths against you.
So remain in complete denial about the fascist nature of Zionism.
Figures.
So you’ve made another unsupported accusation or claim. Figures. On the other hand, its not very surprising. Its hard to prove a point when the truths against you.
“Its hard to prove a point when the truths against you.”
Is that why you lie so much?
An absolutely devastating “reply”. It absolutely eviscerates and destroys me when you make another unsupported accusation and/or claim. But I’m sure your just one more from victory, so keep it up!
” absolutely eviscerates and destroys me”
Too bad that’s not literally true, monster.
But I’m sure your just one more from victory, so keep it up!
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/da084424bfe2c031d1c977d914d0f42d414063e2d6da69ad8a245306812c0cfa.jpg
Except no. You still have yet to prove these sorts of incidents would be anything beyond isolated, unfortunate events, or that the Israeli government’s sincere attempts at warning and allowing the civilian population time to leave and evacuate where an actual conflict-zone can occur would in any way be part of some spooky evil secret plan to displace the population and commit demographic changes. As for the civilian convoy blast, no conclusive evidence has been able to be determined (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67114281). Israel reserves the right to monitor and filter the border of an active conflict-zone, and there’s nothing spooky or evil about that.
“allowing the civilian population time to leave and evacuate where an actual conflict-zone can occur would in any way be part of some spooky evil secret plan”
It’s not a secret. It’s right out in the open. Gazans have nowhere to go. Israel tells them to go south and then bombs them in the south.
You call it humanitarianism, but it’s actual ethnic cleansing.
End Israel!
The “secret” part I was referring to were your unsupported conspiracies that the “real” reason the Israeli government would be engaging in humanitarian activities, warnings and signalling to the point of delaying a military operation against a terrorist and genocial organization weeks after they were directly responsible for an attack proportionally 7 times worse than 9/11 was for America for Israel would be “ethnic cleansing” or some other form of projection. And yes, these accusations are a form of projection as all of these accusations are things the “side” Israel is ethically launching a counter-terrorism and anti-genocide organization against specifically call for (https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msn.com%2Fen-us%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Funderstanding-hamas-s-genocidal-ideology%2Far-AA1i0jaZ%3AcPp2dhnOy1Q8glT4lLsWw9c-1jw&cuid=18764). I also directly disproved your false accusation of Israel bombing aid-routes with a credible source previously, but I guess you’re repeating it, as it can be hard to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you.
There’s nothing conspiratorial about the assertion that Israel has and is engaged in ethnic cleansing. It’s a matter of historical and public record.
Ah, you really got me this time! Its a matter of “historical and public record”, just trust me when I’m consistently unable to prove even its basic tenants, right? But I’m sure your just one more unsupported accusation from victory, so keep it up!
Israel is committing genocide, not opposing it.
Ah, another unsupported accusation. You appear to be starting to show real weakness in your tired attacks against Israel at this point, especially given the frequency and consistency in which you resort to them. Must be getting hard to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”.
The number of Palestinians killed in the first eight days of the Israeli war against Gaza has reportedly exceeded the number of casualties who were killed during the longest and most destructive Israeli war on the Strip, dubbed “Protective Edge”, in 2014.
According to DCI–Palestine, a Palestinian child is killed every 15 minutes and, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, over 70% of all of Gaza’s casualties are women and children.
For Israel, none of these facts matter. In the mind of Israeli President Isaac Herzog, often perceived as a ‘moderate’, the “rhetoric about civilians not (being) involved (is) absolutely not true.” They are legitimate targets, simply because they “could’ve risen up, they could have fought against that evil regime”, he said, referring to Hamas.
Therefore, “It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” according to Herzog, who promised payback.
Ariel Kallner, a member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party, explained Israel’s goal behind the Gaza war. “Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948,” he said.
The same sentiment was conveyed by Israeli Defense Minister, Yoav Gallant, the man responsible for translating Israel’s declaration of war into an action plan: “We are fighting human animals and we will act accordingly,” he said on October 9. ‘Accordingly,’ here, meant that “there will be no electricity, no food, no fuel. Everything is closed.” And, of course, thousands of dead civilians.
Since Israel’s top political authorities have already declared that all Palestinians are collectively responsible for the October 7 events, this means that all Palestinians are, per Gallant’s assessment, ‘human animals’, deserving no mercy.
Expectedly, Israel’s supporters in the US and other Western countries joined the chorus, also using the most violent and dehumanizing language, thus cementing mainstream Israeli political discourse among ordinary people.
US presidential hopeful, Nikki Haley, told Fox News on October 10 that the Hamas attack was not just on Israel but “is an attack on America”. It was then that she made her sinister declaration, while looking directly at the camera, “Netanyahu, finish them, finish them (..) finish them!”
Though US President Joe Biden, and his Secretary of State Antony Blinken did not use the exact same words, they both made comparisons between the October 7 events and the terrorist attacks of 9/11. The meaning behind this requires no elaboration.
For his part, US Senator Lindsey Graham rallied American conservative and religious supporters, declaring on October 11, also on Fox News, “We are in a religious war here. (…) Do whatever the hell you have to do. (..) Level the place.”
Much more, equally sinister language was – and continues – to be uttered. The outcome is being broadcast around the clock. Israel is ‘finishing off’ the Gaza civilian population, it is ‘leveling’ thousands of homes, mosques, hospitals, churches and schools. Indeed, it is producing another painful episode of the Nakba.
From Golda Meir’s “Palestinians did not exist” (1969) to Menachem Begin’s Palestinians are “beasts walking on two legs” (1982), to Eli Ben Dahan’s “Palestinians are like animals, they aren’t human” (2013), to numerous other racist and dehumanizing references, the Zionist discourse remains unchanged.
Now, it is all coming together, the language and the action are in perfect alignment. Perhaps, it is time to start paying attention to how Israel’s genocidal language is translated to an actual genocide on the ground. Sadly, for thousands of Palestinian civilians, this awareness is simply too late.
But can anyone be in any doubt that Israel is planning a second Nakba? Netanyahu has made this absolutely clear. He told the 1.1 million Palestinians in north Gaza to “Leave now,” while the army spokesperson said they would not be allowed to return “until we say so.” Where they were supposed to go, no one said. In any event, this did not stop Israel bombing them where they fled.
By the end of the war, only about 200,000 out of 1,157,000 Palestinians recorded in a 1947 British census remained in the parts of Palestine that became Israel. The takeover of Palestinian-owned land was even more dramatic. In 1946, Jews had owned less than 12 percent of the land in what became Israel; this rose to 77 percent after the 1948-49 war when the Israeli government enacted the Abandoned Property Ordinance to take control of the property of Palestinians who were expelled or fled.
Isreal is intent on ethnically cleansing Gaza.
On October 17, the Misgav Institute for National Security & Zionist Strategy published a position paper advocating for the “relocation and final settlement of the entire Gaza population.” The report advocates exploiting the current moment to accomplish a long-held Zionist goal of moving Palestinians off the land of historic Palestine. The report’s subtitle makes it clear: “There is at the moment a unique and rare opportunity to evacuate the whole Gaza Strip in coordination with the Egyptian government.”
The Misgav Institute is headed by former Netanyahu National Security Advisor Meir Ben Shabbat, who remains influential in Israeli security circles. The Institute’s former chairpersons and founding associates include Yoaz Hendel (chair 2012-19), a right-centrist who was Minister of Communications intermittently in the years 2020-22; Moshe Yaalon, former Defense Minister (note that both Hendel and Yaalon have become opposed to Netanyahu in the recent years); Moshe Arens, also former Defense Minister — and other top political personas.
https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/israeli-think-tank-lays-out-a-blueprint-for-the-complete-ethnic-cleansing-of-gaza/
You are a filthy liar and an apologist for evil.
The youth of America see through the Zionist lies in unprecedented numbers. They know that US imperialism and Israel are joined at the hip.
Opposing Israel = Opposing US imperialism.
“But among young people age 18 to 24, things looked quite differently.
“Just 52 percent of this group said they supported Israel, while 48 percent said they supported Hamas. Yes, that’s right: Nearly half of young respondents said they side with the terrorist group that just earlier this month purposefully targeted and slaughtered innocent civilians, including women, children, and infants, in a chilling and sadistic manner.
“You’d hope for the sake of the future of our country that these young people are somehow supporting Hamas despite the group’s violent actions. But you’d be wrong. In an even more shocking finding, the Harvard-Harris poll revealed that 51 percent of 18 to 24 year olds said Hamas’s violence against Israeli civilians was justified, while just 49 percent don’t think so.”
Israel’s decades of war crimes have changed the views of youth. Zionism in the US is fossilized.
Israel is a genocidal monstrosity.
The West’s support for Israel has indeed undermined international law due to its hypocrisy. As an unnamed senior G7 diplomat told the Financial Times in an article titled ‘Rush by West to back Israel erodes developing countries’ support for Ukraine’: “We have definitely lost the battle in the Global South … All the work we have done with the Global South [over Ukraine] has been lost . . . Forget about rules, forget about world order. They won’t ever listen to us again.”
eight Jewish senior lawyers, headed by Lord Neuberger, former president of the Supreme Court, showed no hesitation in declaring in a letter to the Financial Times that Israel had breached international law in significant ways.
They wrote that it was a grave violation of international law to lay siege to a civilian population; that collective punishment is prohibited by the laws of war; that combatants had to ensure minimum destruction to human life, and that politicians and commanders alike had to be careful to ensure their words did not imply to their troops that the laws of war could be disregarded.
Already the International Centre of Justice for Palestinians (ICJP), a UK-based legal centre, had issued the Labour leader with a notice of intention to prosecute any UK politician for their complicity in war crimes in Gaza.
The ICJP letter emphasised that “under international criminal law… support provided to perpetrators of international crimes can be investigated and prosecuted by the International Criminal Court”.
In two weeks, Israel is guilty on all counts mentioned in the letter to the Financial Times.
You gaslight shamelessly with your false accusations of conspiracy theorizing.
There are far to many real atrocities to report to have to resort to that.
The 2000 dead Palestinian kids in Gaza alone in the past three days are no theory and no secret.
OTOH, Israel and you are clear that their sacrifice on the altar of Israeli security are well worth the price.
All hail the mighty moral soldiers of the IDF!
Next, we have Zionist billionaires boasting of creating blacklists of Palestinian rights supporters at the nation’s top law schools,
You can’t make this stuff up.
The Zionist oligarchs roar threats at America’s universities faculties and students, in tandem with the deranged MAGA kulturklan, I would add.
Next we have Zionists calling for the expulsion of members of Congress who oppose Israel’s policies. Not defeat at the polls, but expulsion. Showing their anti-democratic ass ends. They should be ashamed and I I hope these Zionist bullies are voted out in ’24.
The Israelis are quite arrogant about their power in the US & allied nations and are not shy about stomping on the democratic rights of Americans. Of course if they’re willing to kill thousands of kids, then they’re willing to sacrifice our democratic rights , in our countries.
Your entire “point” here (no, I’m not going to bother responding to the emotional-attention civilian casualties claim as I have disproved that “point” many, many times) is that the Israel lobby has done and attempts to do what every other lobby does: influence events. Of course they can see where people can fall on their issue and take actions accordingly: so does the oil lobby, so does the tech lobby, so does the automobile lobby (funny story, America was going to have public trains as a primary mode of transportation at one point but the automobile lobby killed it). As a lobby that is literally their entire point, this once again proves nothing.
“I’m not going to bother responding to the emotional-attention civilian casualties claim as I have disproved that “point” many, many times”
Right, you’ve explained that the death of thousands of Palestinians is a price you’re willing to pay, you foul elitist apologist for murder.
Zionists are racists and Zionists are advocates of mass murder.
The Israel Lobby is subversive an enemy of the American Public. It is contrary to the interests of the American people.
The Israel Lobby is a foreign lobby but due to its excessive and corrupt control of the US government, it’s not required to register as an agent of a foreign state whose interests are contrary to those of the US.
Funny, I’d consider preventing genocide a very American thing, but what would I know, I’ve only lived there for most of my life. But since your going to keep recycling your “points” and accusations, I’m going to reuse a story to try and help you understand whats occurring:
Your a farmer in Ohio. A local delinquent runs into your farm and purposefully shoots your dog or something while screaming about how he must genocide you, making his intentions very clear. However, while escaping he runs into a crowded mall to try and escape and to plot his next attack, possibly even worse than this one. As the sheriff of the town, if you don’t pursue him he’ll probably do much worse to you or your friends/allies. What will you do?
“I’d consider preventing genocide a very American thing” Tell that to the many native American tribes that were wiped out.
Except a better analogy is that the farmer stole the farm from the local delinquent’s family.
That’s called “historical context.”
Thats great. Then they should take the issues to the courts (or in the real world the U.N., which has actually been showing an incredible anti-Israel bias) and settle it their, except the organizations dedicated to “Palestinian resistance” reject the Oslo Accords, which would have granted them a peaceful resolution and fulfillment of their key demands. So no, you continue to be wrong in your attempts at “rebuttals”.
The Oslo Accords were destroyed by the Israeli Right and Ariel Sharon.
They’ve been dead for a long time.
The US has killed far more Muslims than Israel.
Unless your referring to Guantanamo Bay, which was an excess of the George W. Bush administration, the targeted reprisals of the U.S. government against “Muslims” has been solely due to those same individuals attempting acts of terrorism or violence against the U.S. or its soldiers. But then again all you seem to be doing in these threads is implying justified self-defense that takes every reasonable measure to reduce civilian casualties would be wrong, so I’m not sure what else particularly I should have been expecting.
Nonsense.
“all you seem to be doing in these threads is implying justified self-defense that takes every reasonable measure to reduce civilian casualties would be wrong”
No. I’m saying that’s a lie in relation to Israel.
“the targeted reprisals of the U.S. government against “Muslims” has been solely due to those same individuals attempting acts of terrorism or violence against the U.S. or its soldiers. ”
LOL, see the invasion of Iraq and bombing of Libya for starters.
See the intervention in Syria.
Context matters. Iraq and Libya were a misguided policy initiative, while I was clearly referring to anti-terrorism operations undertaken by the U.S. government. Syria’s more of the generic U.S. behavior in trying to decide who should be in charge of another country, like Maduro in Venezuela. And no, you have not yet “proven” that my statement would not apply to Israel, but that’s not going to stop you from claiming it, right?
You haven’t proved your statement and I’ve refuted it several, but you will continue to lie becuase that’s what Zionists do.
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If Israel Stops Murdering Thousands Of Children, The Bad Guys Might Win
CAITLIN JOHNSTONE
OCT 24
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If Israel Stops Murdering Thousands Of Children, The Bad Guys Might Win by Caitlin Johnstone
Caitlin Johnstone
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You see kids, Israel needs to keep dropping bombs on buildings full of children and targeting civilians with siege warfare and murdering Palestinians in the West Bank and censoring the media and arresting dissidents and killing journalists, because if it doesn’t, the bad guys will win.
No no you don’t understand: if Israel stops killing children by the thousands in its relentless bombing campaign, the nation could be taken over by murderous terrorists.
❖
Normal person: It’s wrong to kill children by the thousands by dropping military explosives on the places where they are known to be located.
Crazy person: Oh so you’re saying you love Hamas and you want them to kill every Jew in the world???
❖
Normal person: It’s wrong to drop bombs on buildings full of children and it needs to stop right now.
Crazy person: BUT A BAD THING HAPPENED TWO WEEKS AGO
❖
One of the dumbest things Israel apologists ask us to believe is this bizarre narrative that Hamas bears 100 percent of the responsibility for the children killed by Israeli bombs, and Israel bears zero percent of the responsibility. It’s just self-evidently moronic and nonsensical.
And the thing about this framing is there’s no upper limit on it. If Israel kills 10,000 children, Hamas killed 10,000 children. If Israel kills 100,000 children, then Hamas killed 100,000 children. If Israel exterminates all the Palestinians, then Hamas exterminated all the Palestinians.
It’s plainly absurd.
❖
Israel-Palestine is not complicated, it only looks complicated after you add in all the freakish mental contortions Israel’s apologists ask you to perform to make it look like its self-evidently indefensible abuses are justifiable.
❖
The thing about Israel apologists who say Israel needs to go scorched earth on Gaza or else there’ll be another Hamas attack is that, in the sense that they mean it, they’re correct. Because they have already ruled out the option of rolling back the many Israeli abuses which led to the rise of Hamas and the attack on October 7, it is a safe bet that if they agreed to a ceasefire right now and returned to the abusive status quo which provoked the attack it would only be a matter of time before Gazans launched another one. So, from within that framework, the only other option is to kill and kill and kill and destroy and destroy and destroy until Gaza can pose no further threat.
The problem, of course, is that their framework is bullshit. The obvious other option is to move toward peace and reconciliation and right all the wrongs which gave rise to the attack on October 7, which would mean a one-state or two-state solution that Palestinians are happy with instead of the status quo of apartheid and tyranny and ghettos and a giant concentration camp of profound human suffering. That would allow the possibility of a ceasefire without the need for continued Palestinian resistance.
But Israel is unwilling to do this because it would mean ceding a bunch of land or ending Israel’s existence as a Jewish ethnostate, so that option is framed as unthinkable nonsense instead of the glaringly obvious fix for this problem that it plainly is. Murdering children by the thousands and carpet bombing Gaza is seen as preferable to the measures that would be necessary to achieve a lasting peace.
❖
Officially Israel has three options:
1. Make huge compromises and right all wrongs so the Palestinian resistance has no further reason to exist,
2. Return to the status quo and accept that there will be more attacks in the future, or
3. Go scorched earth genocide on Gaza.
A hidden fourth option which nobody wants to talk about would be to address the uncomfortable fact that Israeli intelligence probably allowed the Hamas attack to happen. It seems highly unlikely that Hamas spent two years coordinating and openly training for an attack of unprecedented scale and sophistication involving motorboats, drones and motorized paragliders in an enclosed area the size of Philadelphia which also happens to be one of the most spied-on places on earth, and that the attack was carried out so successfully even Hamas was surprised at how many Israelis they were able to kill and capture because it went completely undetected by Israeli intelligence those entire two years despite being warned by Egyptian intelligence that an attack was coming, and despite the fact that US intelligence was aware of unusual activity by Hamas on October 6.
If Israel got real with itself and investigated and found that officials in Israeli intelligence kept operatives looking the other way to allow the October 7 attack to occur, then simply acknowledging this and taking steps to ensure that it never happens again would be enough to feel secure that Israel won’t suffer any more attacks of that scale, because Israeli intelligence can indeed prevent them from happening. The premise that Hamas needs to be eliminated to prevent such attacks would be proven false.
This is perhaps the least likely of all possible options, though, because the internal political fallout that would occur when the Israeli public learns their nation’s intelligence services sacrificed massive numbers of their own citizens to advance a pre-existing agenda would collapse the entire national order.
❖
Israel apologists are like, “All you goddamn anti-semitic terrorist lovers just don’t get it: if Israel doesn’t go full scorched earth and completely obliterate Hamas right now, what’s to stop another massive Hamas attack from being intentionally allowed to happen by Israeli intelligence?”
❖
Funny how empire simps spent the last seven years screaming the word “whataboutism” and saying it’s evil, and now their response to all criticisms of Israel is “what about what Hamas did” and “what about those other countries who do bad things”.
❖
Westerners who didn’t already know about Israel’s criminality have been learning that Israel
Routinely bombs hospitals, churches and mosques
Constantly lies and circulates disinformation
Is fine with killing children by the thousands
Sees Palestinians as sub-human
We’re fast approaching the point where the emotional heat of October 7 wears off and people start looking at Israel’s actions more rationally, after which point they’ll look over and just see Israel murdering children by the thousands and reducing Gaza to rubble for no legitimate reason.
© 2023 Caitlin Johnstone
PO Box 378, Mentone, 3194, Victoria, Australia
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This is such hateful idiotic garbage, it’s the first one of your “comments” I’m going to give a “dislike”. An unholy trinity of 9-11 “trutherism”, unsupported accusations of “apartheidism”, and nutjob political proclamations, Israel as a state was created specifically to defend a certain ethnic group from the horrors of events such as the Holocaust, if it ever comes under a “two-state solution” you want to know which targeted group wouldn’t be protected? Definitely the poor, poor, targeted “Palestinians”, right? The only part of this that was semi-amusing was when she tried to caricature Israeli supporters as “All you goddamn anti-semitic terrorist lovers just don’t get it: if Israel doesn’t go full scorched earth and completely obliterate Hamas right now, what’s to stop another massive Hamas attack… ?” That’s exactly the freaking point. You either eliminate the Nazis or they do what they state they will do, and the Hamas charter has made it very clear what they want to do (https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msn.com%2Fen-us%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Funderstanding-hamas-s-genocidal-ideology%2Far-AA1i0jaZ%3AcPp2dhnOy1Q8glT4lLsWw9c-1jw&cuid=18764). You think the Nazi’s in World War 2 didn’t try to hide behind civilian infastructure when they were collapsing in Germany? The Allies weren’t dumb enough to fall for it then, and the Israeli government, a government created almost exclusively to prevent the atrocities they commited, certaintly isnt today.
Her caricature is spot on.
Johnstone nailed it.
End Us Aid to Israel!
Zionism is racism!
Thats great. Well I’m glad to know that whatever your “ethnic group” would be, if it were targeted for extermination by a terrorist and genocidal organization like Hamas or the Nazi government, you would just roll over and let it happen because you wouldn’t ever have the mental fortitude to wipe them out and eliminate them. And then we might never have the online internet war-criminal apologist we have today. But I’m sure that could never happen to you, right?
Theodore Herzl one of the founders of Zionism was quite open to his support of colonialism in his appeal to British imperialists for their backing by writing: “And so I must believe that here in England the idea of Zionism, which is a colonial idea, should be easily and quickly understood in its true and most modern form.”
Or perhaps if you’re so into unsupported conspiracies throughout this thread I can just make my own:
Maybe he was just saying that so that the idea of Israel would be approved by Britain at the time by attempting to compliment and flatter them and their ideologies, as they controlled most of the territory of modern-day Israel at the time. That being said, you appear to be starting to show real weakness in your tired attacks against Israel at this point, as you appear forced to resort to quotes from individuals who died in 1904 when the state of Israel was founded in 1948. Must be hard to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”.
LOL. that you upbraid others about “truth” is a hilarious irony.
And you still haven’t cited any conspiracies that I’ve endorsed. Just your usual vile lies.
Except no. You’ve multiple times claimed to know exactly what Benjamin Nehtanyahu and/or his government would “secretly” be thinking, as well as “really” knowing what humanitarian proclamations and warnings would be about. Because if you just magically claim to know every detail of what the Israeli government knows or is attempting to achieve without credible evidence or reasoning behind it, that’s practically the definition of a conspiracy theory. I also noticed you never even tried responding to my penultimate (previous previous) reply, must be getting hard to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”.
“You’ve multiple times claimed to know exactly what Benjamin Nehtanyahu and/or his government would “secretly” be thinking’
Bullsh-t.
The truth is with Palestine, not with the murderous apartheid Israel.
It would be nice if you didn’t make your “profile” private so I could literally copy and paste you claiming exactly that. But I do have more than a couple:
“Israel is intent on ethnically cleansing Gaza.”
“But can anyone be in any doubt that Israel is planning a second Nakba? Netanyahu has made this absolutely clear.”
“Zionists are racists and Zionists are advocates of mass murder.” (in relation to the Netanyahu government)
“The IDF are blood soaked racist killers.”
On unsupported and disproven conspiracies involving claimed Israeli bombings:
“In any event, this did not stop Israel bombing them where they fled.” (There has not been enough evidence in the convoy blast to determine who would be responsible, and as such this remains a false and unproven assertion: https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fworld-middle-east-67114281%29%3A89o1QR0htyvWHx36MuhBhWypGyU&cuid=18764).
“You call the bombing of… hospitals” (The U.S. intelligence community, as per a statement by Joe Biden (a president I’m still not particularly a fan of after the Afghanistan withdrawal, but his latest actions are a start), has recently thrown their weight behind the assessment that Israel was absolutely not responsible, and if your “evidence” is one errant tweet by what appears to be a low-level assistant that was quickly deleted and a claim about video meta-data I think its clear who would have a factual, supported evidence on this)
You seem to think by “posting” more your “proving” your “points”, but really it just provides more evidence and support as to why you would be absolutely wrong on this issue. Since your “responses” appear to have become recursive, a clear sign of weakness in your tired attacks against Israel, it stands to reason I should give you a recursive response: Must be getting hard to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”.
I’m not trying to prove anything to you,
I post for others who may read this exchange.
Okay, how would a hypothetical reasonable individual, after reading all of those examples of unsupported conspiracy theories you just denied having ever made, come away supporting you? As for the inherent recursion of your “replies”:
Must be getting hard to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”.
GFY
A truly eloquent response. Our hypothetical observer applauds you in your restraint.
The IDF are a bunch of cowards, carpet bombing Gaza to reduce the chances they might suffer casualties.
End Israeli genocide!
Why not just link to other people’s stuff instead of spamming us with it?
Spamming? How’s that work?
Doesn’t spamming refer to unsolicited usually commercial messages (such as emails, text messages, or Internet postings) sent to a large number of recipients or posted in a large number of places?
Antiwar.com has previously posted Johnstone’s articles; so I don’t accept your accusation that my posts are spam.
No, he was clearly referring to “spamming” in the context of posting a large amount or quality of messages in a targeted manner. But you don’t have to accept his correct assertions for them to continue to remain true.
GFY
Yes, that’s what I was referring to — but he’s correct that I used the word “spamming” incorrectly. In fact, that misuse of it is one of my pet peeves, so I’m embarrassed and apologize for it.
On the other hand, as he points out, Antiwar.com carries lots of Johnstone’s stuff, so why post whole columns as “comments?” Especially whole columns without bothering to cut out the extraneous material, e.g. “view in app” and so forth.
None of this, btw, is “moderator” material. It’s just my opinion.
Are you claiming that the creation of blacklists is a normal part of lobbying?
That the demonizing of critics is s normal part of lobbying?
Well yes. A lobby exists to influence people and/or organizations, of course they can try to sway or influence critics. But way to once again think your making a “point” when your not. Must be getting hard to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”.
So now you’re defending blacklists.
How low can you go.
The Zionists will pay for their assaults on the American freedom.
Okay, lets go with this for a second. The Israeli lobby is the only lobby to have ever created a “blacklist” or have ever attempted to influence people and/or organizations and all that stuff. This somehow “represses” Americans to have organizations attempt to influence other organizations. What about that would ever invalidate a counter-terrorism and anti-genocide response that takes every reasonable measure to prevent civilian casualties, especially against a terrorist and genocial organization weeks after they were directly responsible for an attack proportionally 7 times worse than 9/11 was for America for Israel. If your this dedicated to repeating unsupported accusations and claims in your “responses”:
Must be getting hard to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”.
Yes blacklists of Palestinian Rights activists is an assault on freedom of speech in the US and must be punished..
Well, if nothing else this “reply” was certainly amusing. Didn’t you claim or at-least highly imply your an American citizen? The only type of political expression free speech has been ruled to not protect is actively inciting violence or a conspiracy to commit a crime, neither of which would ever apply to a legal and registered lobby trying to publicly pressure a political organization through legal means. But I guess you, isolated internet commenter, are going to find a way to “punish” them, right? I’m sure your just one more unsupported accusation from that victory, so keep it up!
You’ll be the first to cry when the blacklist of Israel supporters is unveiled.
Funny, I’d consider being seen supporting counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations that take every reasonable measure to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties as a point of pride. But if this is the level your attempted insults have gone to, I guess I can just let you do the disproving and invalidation of your “points”.
Libel is not protected speech. falsely inferring that a person “supports terrorism” is libel.
It may be libel in some jurisdictions, but not in the United States.
Is that so? What about this?
“TransUnion falsely tagged innocent consumers as potential terrorists or drug dealers and then decided it was ‘no big deal’ because the consumers didn’t lose any money,” said National Consumer Law Center attorney Chi Chi Wu. “But these 8000-plus consumers had their reputations unfairly maligned.”
Wu said in this particular case, consumers might not have had much individual recourse to get relief. It was only through the class action that they were able to get their day in court.
“This case also shows the critical importance of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau’s (CFPB) final rule against forced arbitration clauses in consumer financial contracts, which we hope will be issued soon,” said Lauren Saunders, associate director of the National Consumer Law Center. “This case could not have gone forward if consumers were bound by a forced arbitration clause with a class action ban.”
The $60 million award was the largest ever in a case involving the FCRA, according to the National Consumer Law Center.
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/consumers-misidentified-as-terrorists-win-60-million-verdict-062617.html
The below was based on violations of consumer protections.
There may also be violations of labor law , if a person is false accused of supporting terrorism and loses a job because of it.
If the law won’t rein in these Zionist billionaires than the law needs changing or citizens will launch direct action against these creeps.
In the US, if I falsely claim that you wired $237 to a member of Hamas for the purpose of purchasing a handgun, knowing that the statement is false or with reckless disregard for whether or not it’s true, I’ve committed libel.
In the US, if I say you “support terrorism,” I have expressed an opinion — and that is speech protected by, rather than a violation of, law.
I’ll reserve judgement until the coming lawsuits are settled.
Something has to be done about these blacklists.
Zionist power in the US must be countered.
Thos last two are both opinions };-)>
This is happening in Canada:
After her office was inundated with death threats, Jama was forced to work from home. Premier Ford poured political fuel on this fire. He demanded Jama be ejected from the legislature, citing her “history of antisemitism, which supports the rape and murder of Jewish people.” Unbowed, Jama went on the offensive, and launched a libel suit against the Ontario Premier.
And in Canada, that might BE libel.
In the US, expressing an opinion is not libel.
No sh-t Sherlock.
Is it really just an opinion to accuse someone of “supporting terrorism?,” particularly when the person making the accusation is a high level government official or a powerful oligarch?
I think not.
“I think not.”
I’ve noticed.
“Prior to the establishment of Israel, a “Palestinian” was a Jew born in Palestine.”
I don’t think you ever got back to me on your source for that one.
Any thoughts?
Google is your friend. My recollection is that I came across a reference to a “Palestinian” and a “Palestinian community” in a 19th century novel that I can’t even remember the title or author of. The “Palestinians” in question were Jews, versus the “Ottoman” Arabs. When I say “versus,” I don’t mean that in the context of conflict. That’s not what the novel was about.
But even Wikipedia mentions that “Palestinian” referred to a Palestine-born Jew during the post-WWI British Mandate era. By the 1920s-30s, Arabs in Palestine were starting to claim the term to express an identity above and beyond “Arab.”
Google is your friend. My recollection is that I came across a reference to a “Palestinian” and a “Palestinian community” in a 19th century novel that I can’t even remember the title or author of. The “Palestinians” in question were Jews, versus the “Ottoman” Arabs. When I say “versus,” I don’t mean that in the context of conflict. That’s not what the novel was about.
But even Wikipedia mentions that “Palestinian” referred to a Palestine-born Jew during the post-WWI British Mandate era. By the 1920s-30s, Arabs in Palestine were starting to claim the term to express an identity above and beyond “Arab.”
My grandfather (an Orthodox Christian Palestinian) immigrated to the US in 1929, and his immigration papers indicate his nationality was “Palestinian.”
I can’t speak for others, but my family immigrated to the US between 1905 and 1929, and as far as I can tell, always identified ethnically as “Palestinian.”
Google is your friend. My recollection is that I came across a reference to a “Palestinian” and a “Palestinian community” in a 19th century novel that I can’t even remember the title or author of. The “Palestinians” in question were Jews, versus the “Ottoman” Arabs. When I say “versus,” I don’t mean that in the context of conflict. That’s not what the novel was about.
But even Wikipedia mentions that “Palestinian” referred to a Palestine-born Jew during the post-WWI British Mandate era. By the 1920s-30s, Arabs in Palestine were starting to claim the term to express an identity above and beyond “Arab.”
“Google is your friend”
The individual making an assertion is responsible for supporting it.
Pretty lame for someone who accuses others of not thinking.
Puff yourself up a little more and you might burst.
“The individual making an assertion is responsible for supporting it.”
That’s true … if the individual making the assertion cares one way or another whether you believe that assertion.
In the case of this specific assertion, I don’t consider it especially important and therefore don’t give a rat’s ass whether you believe it or not.
Ok, I’ll just consider it false and you a mean spirited blowhard.
Have a nice day.
If you’re referring to, for example, DeSantis’s stunt of “banning” pro-Palestinian organizations on Florida campuses, that’s going to backfire on him big-time. A couple of existing clubs may lose their “student activity” fee dollars and so forth, but they’ll have ten times as many open members/supporters by the end of the week as they did yesterday.
I think you’re right, but I’m also referring to this:
On Tuesday, billionaire hedge fund manager and longtime Democratic Party donor Bill Ackman, founder and CEO of Pershing Square Capital Management, called on Harvard to release the names of students who are members of the organizations that signed the PSC’s joint statement. Ackman menacingly wrote, “I have been asked by a number of CEOs if Harvard would release a list of the members of each of the Harvard organizations that have issued the letter assigning sole responsibility for Hamas’ heinous acts to Israel, so as to insure [sic] that none of us inadvertently hire any of their members. If, in fact, their members support the letter they have released, the names of the signatories should be made public so their views are publicly known.”
Pretty disgusting.
And also this:
About a week after Hamas attacked Israel, the Google employee posted a video of herself singing on LinkedIn in what she called “a heartfelt tribute to my fellow Palestinians and the innocent children who have tragically lost their lives due to the ongoing Israeli bombings.”
Within a few days, her post, her full name and the name of her employer had been posted to the website, built by a software engineer in Tel Aviv.
“Your support for terrorism is being watched and recorded,” someone responded to her LinkedIn post in a comment that has since been deleted. “Good luck finding [a] job in the future.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/10/22/google-amazon-meta-gaza-israel-contracts/
As someone whose actually read that article previously, I’m glad she was. Her “posts” weren’t as much the problem as her deliberate omissions of certain tragedies, and as such she has no right to complain about the professional or personal consequences of her unacceptable behavior.
Why is her behavior unacceptable?
Why is omitting mention of the 10/14 attack any worse than Google management omitting any mention of Palestinians killed in Gaza in its official corporate statements, while it did issue a statement mourning the Zionists killed?
Your attempts to justify these attempts to limit and punish political speech is the US reeks of hypocrisy.
Americans will not forget what the Zionists are trying to do.
It’s been going on for quite some time before 10/14. The current war is drawing attention to it.
A student at the City University of New York (CUNY) School of Law, she was the founder of Within Our Lifetime (WOL), an organisation she established in 2015 after realising there was not a youth-led grassroots organisation fighting for the Palestine cause.
The growing popularity of Palestinian activism in the US
But for students such as Kiswani, being vocally pro-Palestinian came with a price.
Last year, Kiswani was labelled “Antisemite of the Year” by Stopantisemitism.org. “Too many antisemites like Kiswani are spreading their radical hate through mainstream sectors, from education to law, by disguising it as criticisms of Israel,” was the reasoning given for the designation.
In September 2020, Kiswani had posted an old video of her waving a cigarette lighter while criticising a friend for wearing a T-shirt promoting the Israeli military.
Shortly thereafter, according to advocacy group Palestine Legal, Act.IL – an app affiliated with the Israeli government – rewarded hundreds of users if they sent pre-scripted emails to the CUNY administration, falsely claiming that Kiswani threatened a student and calling for her to be punished.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/palestine-student-activists-fear-blacklist-campaign-us-universities
While only a handful of student activists are subjected to smear campaigns such as the one against Kiswani, many do end up on the Canary Mission website.
The site puts together profiles of pro-Palestinian activists and labels them racists, antisemites and supporters of terrorism.
One student described the site to MEE as a “McCarthyist organisation that attempts to silence Palestinian activists”.
Canary Mission says that “by shining a light on hate groups and their members, the public is better informed about bigotry on their campuses and in their communities”.
“Canary Mission believes that we all have the right to know if an individual has been affiliated with movements that routinely engage in anti-Semitic rhetoric and actions, promote hatred of Jews and seek the destruction of Israel.”
Why pro-Palestine activists are targeted in British schools and society
Read More »
According to The Intercept, the blacklist has become particularly frightening because it’s used by law enforcement in Israel and the United States.
Palestinian rights advocates have been interrogated and deported from Israel because of their Canary Mission profiles, while others have been interrogated by the FBI.
He “menacing wrote” that he would appreciate knowing who would be supporting terrorist activity so he and others would not willingly support them with the profits of their respective organizations. Really terrible stuff on display!
Creating a blacklist at Harvard University, especially the Law School, is a direct attempt to silence and disempower pro-Palestinian students.
There will be lawsuits!
A private organization and some others attempt to find out who would be supporting terrorist activity so that they and others would not be willingly supporting them with the profits of their respective organizations. Definitely silencing them by making personal decisions on how to allocate their own resources, I’m sure. Plenty of lawsuits! Just don’t ever look at how they’d play out, you might not appreciate that part.
“supporting terrorist activity” is serious accusation. Applying it to people who condemn Israel’s oppression in Palestine is vile, but that’s what the Zionist billionaires are doing.
But defend that sh-t all you like. You’re basically self-discrediting anyway. You just don’t know it.
I think as this campaign of repression by the Zionist billionaires becomes more well known, it will backfire and help to increase opposition to US support of Israel with taxpayer dollars.
Have you even read the statement before now trying to defend the members who of their own free will signed it. The statement in no unclear terms specifically claimed that Israel would be responsible for all of the violence, terrorism and genocide perpetrated against it. As such, who else would they be supporting and who else would they be condemning. As per usual, if you imply this following of facts, logic, and clear reasoning would be your typical attempt at an insult, I can live with that.
Yes, I read it and agree with it, to an extent, and disagree with other aspects of it.
You can’t colonize a people and systematically and relentlessly oppress them and not expect a reaction.
Nonetheless, people who knowingly slaughter civilians are responsible for that slaughter. You, OTOH, Hamas responsible for Israeli killing of civilians in Gaza. In effect, you mirror the extremism of Hamas
So you see, you’re the extremist here, not I.
I think calling the statement “support for terror” is of hypocritical, self-serving Zionist propaganda, IOW, the usual shite.
Well that was a bunch of euphemistic null space. You can’t just make a decision I’d disagree with in a parliamentary democracy, the members of which are decided by the citizens of the country, I’m going to claim they’re committing severe terms like “colonization” and “oppression” and when you prove those claims are unsupported and that a self-defense anti-terrorism and counter-genocide response would be justified I’m just going to repeat my repeatedly disproven assertions, you seem to say in vain. If I’m supposed to be the “extremist” there’s grounds to worry about who a “moderate” would be.
“Well that was a bunch of euphemistic null space.” Do you anything other than lie? I think not
Zionism = colonialism & Mirrors Edge = dishonest pig.
This is an important moment. In the midst of your usual unsupported claims, accusations, and attempted insults, you just presumably unknowingly entered the name of the best video game of all time: https://youtu.be/2N1TJP1cxmo
Yes, you are an extremist. a lot like this guy:
Ze’evi led the National Union party, which brought together all the most dangerous currents of Israeli far-right politics. As the leader of this party, and, before that, of Moledet, Ze’evi advocated the removal of Palestinians from what he considered to be Israel’s land (East Jerusalem, Gaza, and the West Bank). He supported the creation of Eretz Yisrael that would stretch from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. In March 2001, Ze’evi—who would later be accused of sexual harassment and of being involved in organized crime—told The Guardian that “it’s not murder to get rid of potential terrorists, or those who have blood on their hands. Each one eliminated is one less terrorist for us to fight.” A few months later, Ze’evi showed that he did not distinguish among Palestinians, calling all of them a “cancer” and saying, “I believe there is no place for two peoples in our country. Palestinians are like lice. You have to take them out like lice.” He was shot to death by fighters of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) in October 2001. The name of the road that cuts across the West Bank—promised to a Palestinian state in the Oslo Accords of 1993—still bears Ze’evi’s name.
No, a democratically elected parliament having a single or a couple of members who can express views that would go against the norms and general standards of the institution of the institution would not invalidate the institution as a whole. Marjory Taylor Greene famously made claims about “Jewish Space Lasers” and George Santos is famously, well, George Santos, but while you could make a case their actions could tarnish the institution as a whole they would not invalidate it or other operations outside of the day-to-day supervision of the institution. I’d say try again, but you seem to keep doing that yet still not ever proving anything conclusive even in your basic assertions, but that hasn’t appeared to slow you down especially yet. Must be getting hard to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”.
Ze’evi is just one example among many, you lying piece of sh-t.
I’ve already provided you with many other examples, which you simply ignore while arrogantly proclaiming yourself the queen of facts & laogic.
Of course many “Zionists denied the very existence of the Palestinians”, “Palestine” is primarily a British idea the saw way “South Ossetia” is primarily an idea borne out of Russia attempting to (rightfully) punish the state of Georgia. And no, don’t think people like me wouldn’t notice your failed attempts at word trickery. Israeli president Issac Herzog is never quoted saying “Palestine”‘s civilian population would be a legitimate target, with the rest of the quotations appearing to be lamentations on the current conflict. Doesn’t “Palestinian” rhetoric echo claims of wondering why people in Israel would not be “rising up” against the “oppressive regime”. Pro tip: don’t try to cite evidence that would apply to the faction you’re attempting to support as well. The rest of your “evidence” is the typical out of context or misrepresented sources, such as Yoov Gallant presumably discussing why the state of Israel should be under no obligation to support “Palestinians” who choose to remain in an active-conflict zone, but apparently framed in an attempt to make it sound spooky and evil. Ariel Kallner appeared to be referring to the “Nakba” in the context of the creation of the political entity of Israel, and referencing it to support it being expanded into “Gaza”, as it not being under Israel’s control was the contributing factor in the October 7th terrorist and genocial attack proportionally 7 times worse than 9/11 was for America for Israel. It would actually be nice if I were actually “ignoring” when you seem to actually bother providing anything vaguely resembling an “example”, otherwise I wouldn’t be spending so much time disproving the same few already disproven lines of “reasoning”.
Your comments are all attempts To explain away the damning facts about Zionist crimes against the Palestinians. They amount to a whole lotta nothing.
If you’re a professional, you’re a professional propagandist,
It’s clear you deny the existence of Palestine. You and yours leave the Palestinians no alternatives except to meet your crimes with violence and end the Zionist’s colonial project by military means.
At this point, I wish them all the best in that endeavor. From river to sea Palestine will be free!
I was talking about the October 7th tragedy in the context of Israel’s population, which is approximately 9.2 million (https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/israel-population/). Never do I ever imply that certain lives would be ever worth more than certain lives lost during 9/11, especially after having personally heard the stories of people actually in Washington D.C. during the time. But I’m sure you’ve never seen the human consequences of indiscriminate terrorist attacks against a civilian population, or you probably wouldn’t be an online internet account supporting them (what else would “Palestine resistance” be doing?). You final statement of “[leaving] the ‘Palestinians’ no alternatives except to meet your crimes with violence” is something you don’t even appear to realize just how abhorrent it would be. The extent of the “oppression” of “Palestinians” in the real world is that they can sometimes have trouble getting driver’s licenses mainly due to historical circumstances outside the control of the Israeli state. Would you just roll over and do nothing while you and your entire community are killed because someone else had the equivalent of a long time at the DMV, and subsequently decided to execute “resistance” against you and other innocents over the falsely labeled “oppression”. This is pure idiocy. You can wish “Palestine” whatever you wish to in an online forum, but know that as the world comes together to condemn Hamas’s unjustifiable terrorism and support Israel, there can’t be divisions allowed to divide us, as we can only wish the brave souls of the Israeli Defense Forces godspeed in their mission.
” you probably wouldn’t be an online internet account supporting them”
Go fq yourself with your vile false accusation of of supporting terrorism.
It’s clear you put more value on Israeli lives than on other lives.
You are racist Zionist filth.
You false deny the oppression of the Palestinians, just as you falsely deny the existence of the Palestinian people.
“but know that as the world comes together to condemn Hamas’s unjustifiable terrorism and support Israel, there can’t be divisions allowed to divide us, as we can only wish the brave souls of the Israeli Defense Forces godspeed in their mission.”
Eat shit & die, Zionist. Freedom of speech will endure in the US despite Zionist tyranny. There are divisions because of Zionist butchery.
I condemn IDF terrorism. I condemn Zionist racism. I condemn Israel as an illegitimate colonialist monstrosity.
What are you and your fellow Zionist enemies of US democracy going to do about it?
I will continue to make the claim that you would be supporting terrorism as long as you continue to “cheer on” the deaths of innocent IDF soldiers protecting their friends, families, relatives and loved ones from being massacred at concerts, in bunkers, in their own homes by rockets and terrorists with automatic rifles. And if you’d disagree with that characterization, you can feel free to elaborate on what the violence you call for in “Palestinian resistance” would really mean. While I don’t yet particularly know what me and the “fellow Zionist enemies of US democracy” are going to do about it just yet, you can rest easy knowing it’ll probably be more than the “many Americans” you keep claiming exist and your isolated internet posts will ever accomplish. Because in the real world, in the aftermath of tragedies like 9/11, voices like yours are isolated and won’t affect the adults in the room as they make the big-picture decisions to protect their populations from tragedies and terrorism.
The killing of the murderous IDF is not terrorism, it’s combatting terrorism. The IDF are combatants, so when Palestinians kill them in defense, it’s not terrorism.
You are the terrorist supporter and the supporter of mass murder.
Actually in the real world, it’s voices like yours that are isolated, particularly outside the West.
Even in the West, Zionism is fossilized and strong only among old people.
The world outside North America and Europe hates Israel.
“fellow Zionist enemies of US democracy’ are people like the Zionist billionaires who are trying to shut down free speech in the US.
Thats great. You once again baselessly claim the IDF would be terrorists when innocent IDF soldiers are protecting their friends, families, relatives and loved ones from being massacred at concerts, in bunkers, in their own homes by rockets and terrorists with automatic rifles, but what was it you were saying about baseless repetition of a claim being seen as “proving” it. Somehow it seems a little relevant now. The “world outside North America and Europe” is not particularly relevant to this conflict, as Russia supports Israel but is wary of making those statements too publicly and China is noticeably having chip and demographic issues, something that noticeably constrains their ability to be relevant in this conflict given Israel’s technological and semiconductor-production centers (https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-global-demand-for-microchips-surges-tech-giants-go-all-in-on-israel/). I had no idea that someone consciously choosing to not support certain political ideas with a limited amount of personal resources would constitute a threat to free speech, guess you’ve got a lot of work to do then, “aye”. And I also had no idea that supporting a response dedicated to preventing actual mass-murder, terrorism and genocide would make me a supporter of it, you must have some truly impressive logical reasoning to prove this assertion, right? Oh wait, there aren’t any? Figures. Must be getting real hard to try to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”?
Thanks. The truth is great!
” a response dedicated to preventing actual mass-murder, terrorism and genocide ” Israel’s response is mass murder, you filthy liar.
Death to the IDF mass murderers!
Yeah, because all the people and movements that chant “death to” are just so nice, right?
the death is all going to the Palestinians at the moment.
The chanters just want a little balance.
So then Israel should have every right to construct ” …a little balance” through its justified self-defense counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations that take every reasonable measure to reduce civilian casualties after the October 7th terrorist and genocidal attack that was proportionally 7 times worse than 9/11 was for America for Israel, right? Pro tip: don’t try to cite “reasoning” that would apply to the “Palestinian resistance” you’re attempting to support as well. Must be getting real hard to try to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”?
One can only hope that one day Israel suffers the devastation equal to that which it has inflicted upon others.
This isn’t the first time the IDF has terrorized Gaza, killing thousands.
No, terrorist and genocidal organizations that would not represent the people of “Gaza” (barely half of the population of “Gaza” supported a statement of attacking Israel) in addition to not having held elections since approximately a decade ago have been putting innocent civilians in danger by hiding their weapons, personnel and equipment near them, almost always either without consent or under coercion, and then after purposefully putting them in clear and consistent danger attempting to use some of the unfortunate consequences they have specifically been attempting to create and bear full responsibility for to attempt to control both the public and the media. There is clearly only one organization that would be “terrorizing” the region and only one organization attempting to stop them.
As Dov Weissglass, Sharon’s senior adviser, bluntly told Haaretz almost two decades ago,
The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process. And when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. And all this with authority and permission. All with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress.
The disengagement is actually formaldehyde. It supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so there will not be a political process with the Palestinians.
The disengagement plan makes it possible for Israel to park conveniently in an interim situation that distances us as far as possible from political pressure. It legitimizes our contention that there is no negotiating with the Palestinians.
And we educated the world to understand that there is no one to talk to. And we received a no-one-to-talk-to certificate. That certificate says: (1) There is no one to talk to. (2) As long as there is no one to talk to, the geographic status quo remains intact. (3) The certificate will be revoked only when this-and-this happens – when Palestine becomes Finland. (4) See you then, and shalom
https://original.antiwar.com/Connor_Freeman/2023/10/26/netanyahus-support-for-hamas-backfired/
You imply you’ve made some kind of point, but then you don’t give anyone who’d be reading your “comment” enough context to even understand what you’d be trying to imply. Who is Sharon? Who is Dov Weiglass? Why should what they’re attempting to say carry any sort of significant weight, and as such why should any reader particularly care about their opinions and/or analysis? You once again seem to believe you’ve made some sort of “point”, yet the rest of the individuals who would read this “comment” would seem to presumably leave it more confused than since they read it? Must be getting real hard to try to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”?
I really don’t care if you choose to delude yourself. It’s all you have, Zionist.
The truth is against Zionist colonialism, racism and apartheid.
I’ve learned a lot from our debate. It motivated me to do more research and strengthened my opposition to and hatred of Zionism.
Yeah, because wanting the victims of the largest genocide in human history to have a state to protect themselves would be so evil, right? Unfortunately, I have actually read a significant section of that “article”, it operates the same way “Haaretz” does for the left and “The Daily Caller” does for the right: mixes in one or two element of truth and then just uses it to go off the deep-end with an unholy agglomeration of conspiracy-theories, “read meat” and/or the usual mix of various unsubstantiated claims or accusations. Plus, I actually have a lot of other things going on in my life that would not be the ending of an isolated online internet account, they just might not realize it yet, so thanks for the support!
Stealing Palestine and terrorizing, torturing and mass murdering Palestinians is evil.
The Palestinians were not responsible for the Holocaust.
If you’re so busy, I advise you fq off then, monster.
I have this account set-up with email notifications, so if someone “responds” I can subsequently respond when I’m free. But thanks again for showing concern about my daily life, it’s going pretty well despite some isolated online internet commenter trying failed attempts at insults, I appreciate it! Once again the distortions you appear forced to resort to due to the precious little evidence for your “side” continue to show your weakness on this issue, as I never once claimed “the Palestinians were… responsible for the Holocaust”, and its quite obvious Israel would not be “stealing ‘Palestine'” as they have not had a significant security presence in “Palestine” since approximately 2008 and have no official governmental policy currently in their counter-terrorism and anti-genocide response to “Palestinian resisitance” that takes every reasonable measure to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties that would lead a reasonable individual to draw that conclusion from either their official statements or actions. You’ve previously acknowledged that a high proportion of Israeli security operations in “Gaza” relied on precision strikes and special forces raids, something that gives very little time or opportunity for the claims you make, and as such you don’t even appear to realize you’re proving yourself wrong. Reminds of this meme: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/20a525c4977c218f23cd04a47d25e1fcb02f38bdb14eac3a1dce28cd4ecd5af5.jpg
“ts quite obvious Israel would not be “stealing ‘Palestine'” as they have not had a significant security presence in “Palestine” since approximately 2008 ”
From river to sea, Palestine will be free!
Your Zionist definition of Palestine is the original big lie.
Except the borders of states are currently defined by international agreements. Do you even realize how much the world would need to expand for every “state” to have their historically largest borders? If you’d actually be getting your way you’d still be living in post-Brexit Britain right now.
“Except the borders of states are currently defined by international agreements.”
Yes, they are. Here are the internationally agreed borders of Israel:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b591fd03c7329f9c943f2abd946050a00c6ccbad7a25a2d55bd33900add552aa.jpg
Because I’m getting progressively annoyed at your account for your ridiculous attempts to equate first-responders with the perpetrators of 9-11 style events, just no. Stop it. This “user” just made a statement implying the territories on your “map” recognized as Israel should be given to “Palestine”, and as such I am pointing out they should not be. As such, this graphic of the political situation in the 1940’s is not particularly illuminating or relevant, as if anything it would support the logical, clear and concise points I have been consistently making. If you want to share pro-anarchy political opinions or something can you just stop doing it in the context of serious world events? You don’t see democrats saying 9-11 would be equally George Bush’s fault the same way you don’t see republicans say the same for FDR and Pearl Harbor. It’s just not appreciated.
What is your obsessively trying to tell other people how to comment?
I don’t require your appreciation, and if you don’t want to read what I post there’s a block/ignore button.
That’s great, would be really weird if you made that statement after attempting to control how people would comment on your “website”, right? I do have a right to let you know my thoughts on you posting the same graphic over and over again, especially when its relevance to the current “conversation” would be next to nil.
The key words there are “my website.” This is not your website, nor are you in charge of what people may or may not post here.
You do get to whine about what other people post here — not by “right,” but according to this particular site’s rules (that is, you’re not violating its guidelines by doing so), but you should probably have figured out by now that such whining is ineffectual.
So it’s the typical “Thomas L. Knapp” comment: 10,000% condescension with almost 0% substance. No one claimed you couldn’t make decisions on your website, people are simply making observations on your behavior due to it. But you seem to believe you’ve ended me by assigning a derogatory label to my “comments”, so enjoy what you’d seem to view as a rhetorical victory.
This isn’t my website, either. I’m just the janitor here. As long as you don’t become trash or vomit on the floor according to the guidelines I’m paid to enforce, you’re safe from me in terms of “control.” But not in terms of me, just like you, expressing opinions.
You fantasizing me about me believing I’ve “ended” you or accomplished a “rhetorical victory” is not quite the same thing as me actually believing those things. Or as me caring enough about what you have to say to want to do those things.
Because I’ve been getting progressively less and less tolerant of the 10,000% condescension you seem to consistently attempt to use, how about this: if you truly don’t care why don’t you stop responding? If it’s just going to be the same mean-spirited down-talk or the same already disproven map copy-pasted where it absolutely wouldn’t be relevant I doubt either of us would lose much from not having an engagement.
Again — if you don’t want to read what I write, all you have to do is click next to one of my comments and hit the block/ignore button. If I wasn’t required to read every comment posted to the site, I’d probably just block/ignore you. But I am required to read every comment on the site, and I respond to those comments when, if, and how I damn well please, within the site’s guidelines, as do you.
You’re also free to continue reading my comments and whining about how mean and unfair they are, if you want to. No skin off my nose.
You can make a lot of decisions in your life, they just aren’t necessarily the correct ones. Whether or not you acknowledge that you increasingly appear to come off as mean-spirited and condescending has no actual legitimate bearing on the tone and content you demonstrate throughout your “comments”. I’ve simply been pointing out that if you’d actually be tired of “reading” my comments, you’re the one who can subsequently stop responding. If you choose to once again incorrectly attempt to label my comments in an uncomplimentary manner, it’s only you who’d continue to be disingenuous and false.
Israel itself has never defined its borders. Isreal stole Palestine.
Israel accepted the borders set in UNR 181 as a condition of admission to the UN.
Those are not Israel’s current borders. It has never delineated its borders.
In practice, it to does not accept the borders laid out by the UN, at all.
De jure and de facto are two different things.
Israel was created by UNR 181 and admitted to the UN on its acceptance of the borders set out in UNR 181. Those are the only de jure borders it has ever had or has now.
And those borders are essentially meaningless; so what’s your point?
You claimed that Israel has never defined its borders. That’s flatly and completely false. It agreed to a specific definition of its borders as a condition of UN membership.
Israels “acceptance” of the UN borders was meaningless, as it immediately expanded beyond them , stealing more Palestinian land.
Your strident comment is much ado about nothing and completely irrelevant.
You made a false claim.
I corrected your false claim.
Now you’re apparently too butthurt to just move on from your false claim.
Kinda sucks to be you, I guess.
LOL.
You’re a rather rigid thinker and your insults are petty and old.
You suck, bubba.
The expulsion of the majority of Palestinians from their homeland is undeniable from a historical point of view and has been thoroughly documented. One example of such evidence is a letter from Israeli Prime Minister David Ben Gurion to his son, in which he expressed his belief that the Palestinians would not leave voluntarily. He bluntly writes: “We must expel the Arabs and take their places.”
Similarly, Yosef Weitz, the director of land and afforestation at the Jewish National Fund (JNF), wrote in his diary: “It must be clear that there is no space for both peoples in this country.” Of course, the Palestinians were not prepared to abandon their land, much less face expulsion en masse. Most thought they would return and even kept the keys to their homes, but were prohibited from ever doing so.
The expulsion began before the end of the British Mandate, but in June 1948 the destruction of Arab towns was implemented as official policy. In Tel Aviv, Weitz met with Ben Gurion who had become prime minister, to present him with a three-page memorandum titled “Retroactive Transfer: A Scheme for the Solution of the Arab Question in the State of Israel”. There it was called to prevent the return of Arabs to their homes by destroying their villages during military operations and to settle Jews in Arab towns and villages.
Palestine was destroyed in 12 months – but the Nakba has gone on for 75 years
The evidence provided by the Zionist movement’s own archives demonstrates a similar line of thought among the different Jewish leaders who considered the dispossession and exile of the Palestinians necessary. Therefore, the damage done to the Palestinians in 1948 was not accidental or an unintended consequence of war.
And approximately twenty years later the U.S. civil rights movement ended. Countries aren’t necessarily perfect, and can sometimes make mistakes. During the 1940’s the U.S. literally had actual concentration camps for Japanese Americans and those of Japanese descent. Yet somehow you still appear to be living there, as the U.S. has made efforts and attempts to reconcile and move past those unfortunate aspects of its history. You’ll notice if you actually read the article I linked to you earlier proving that Israel would not be an “apartheid state” that the “Arabs” who remain in Israel are generally happy and find fulfillment in the lives they live there, something hardly reminiscent of the ongoing claims of oppression you keep claiming are occurring. Must be getting real hard to try to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”?
Happy slaves?
Your arguments are self-serving lies. Both Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch has determined that Israel is an apartheid state. I trust their opinions far more than that of some racist Zionist monster.
Except no. If you’d bothered to read the source I’ve linked to you (https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalreview.com%2F2021%2F05%2Fno-israel-is-not-an-apartheid-state%2F%3AaFK6T6N9vRjBoqUz_d9wgZPAlIc&cuid=18764), you’d notice you’d have a hard time attempting to prove Israel would be “racist”, let alone an “apartheid state”. Those organizations can and sometimes do attempt legitimate and important work in verifying various videos, but when they make unsupported claims about the large-scale policies of a nation-state without sufficient supporting evidence and reasoning, it remains and can only continue to remain a subjective and objectively wrong opinion. As for Israel and the Israeli Defense Force’s justified self-defense counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations that continuously take every reasonable measure to prevent civilian casualties: https://youtu.be/xxbQiHhvDtQ
The claims made by AI and HRW are not unsupported, but your claims about the restraint and morality of the IDF is not just unsupported, they’re blatant lies that are utterly refuted by the 8,000 civilian deaths in Gaza.
So your back to the civilian casualties invalidate a justified self-defense counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operation that continuously takes every reasonable measure to prevent civilian casualties claim. It’s widely acknowledged that during World War 2 tens of thousands of civilian casualties occurred in Berlin due to the Axis force’s tactics of hiding in civilian infrastructure (https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldwar2facts.org%2Fbattle-of-berlin.html%29%3AzCSAdD2famFqIk1Qablab5HQnJY&cuid=18764). You ever seen any reasonable person claim that this would subsequently invalid the Allies response and that everyone should root for the Germans? Furthermore, if Israel and the Israeli Defense Forces are truly unable to act in a “restrained” manner and actually dedicated to committing absolute immorality, surely you can list some comprehensive evidence and reasoning to back up such a proven assertion, right? No? Figures, as it wasn’t even true in the first place. Also, if you’re going to attempt to “respond” to something, you need to respond to all of the content present in the original context, and as such that video took some technical knowledge and effort to produce. Must be getting real hard to try to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”?
I’ll never stop emphasizing the hypocrisy of the mass murdering IDF.
Hamas are not the Nazis. Your comparison is false and ignores the far right, Nazi nature of the Zionist regime.
” surely you can list some comprehensive evidence and reasoning to back up such a proven assertion” The repeated slaughter of over ten thousand of civilians in Gaza these past ten years is sufficient evidenced of the wanton nature of Israel’s mass slaughter .
So your typical “response”: your unable to disprove the validity of my clear, consistently supported and reasoned points, so as per usual you attempt a deflection, typically attempted by attempting some sort of attempted yet somehow both false and irrelevant attempted insult. Yes, Hamas is not literally the nation-state government that started the Second World War. That would not mean their attempts to commit terrorist and genocidal activities would not be sufficiently alarming and not demand a proportional response to eliminate this threat from all parties. And no, Nehtanyahu building a wall does not make him a “nazi”. You have not nor have you ever proven that the Israeli Defense Forces would or would ever show a disregard for the sanctity of human life, and as such this “response” carries the same charisma they usually would. Also, I don’t appreciate I assume you getting my youtube account banned that I previously used to post a video, I’m fighting that conviction, and that you’d appear to be resorting to tactics like that further proves my point that you can’t successfully disprove the truth.
“You have not nor have you ever proven that the Israeli Defense Forces would or would ever show a disregard for the sanctity of human life”
As I’ve written before, you are either delusional, dishonest or both.
Bezalel Smotrich, leader of Israel’s Religious Zionist Party and the current Finance Minister was even more explicit,
The [PA] is a burden and Hamas is an asset. On the same international field, in this game of delegitimization, and think about it for a moment, the [PA] is a burden and Hamas is an asset. It’s a terrorist organization. No one will recognize it. No one will give it status at the [International Criminal Court]. No one will let it put forth a resolution at the UN security council. Then would we need an American veto? Or would we not need an American veto? … Given that the main game, the central court, where we play now, is the international delegitimization, there [Abbas] is beating us in significant spaces. And Hamas, at this point in my opinion, will be an asset. I don’t think I have to worry about [Hamas].
maybe you should read the article. You might, against all odds, gain some insight into why your people were savagely attacked and why it will all happen again.
The Abraham accords are finished and this is the beginning of the end for Israel.
After 20 straight days of bombing, Mondoweiss reported,
Around 219 educational facilities have been hit by Israeli bombardment, including at least 29 UNRWA schools.
Approximately 1.4 million people in Gaza are internally displaced.
24 hospitals have received evacuation notices from Israel in northern Gaza.
Hospitals are operating at more than 150 percent of their capacity.
At least 130 neonatal babies dependent on incubators are at risk of death due to lack of electricity.
There are approximately 166 unsafe births taking place per day in Gaza.
101 health personnel have been killed by Israeli strikes, over 100 others wounded.
Gaza’s population of over 2 million, which continues to be carpet bombed, is still being denied fuel, clean water, and adequate food supply by Israel’s ongoing siege on the enclave.
That’s what your people are doing, monster.
Israeli Politician Moshe Feiglin: “Gaza Needs to Turn Into Dresden! Annihilate Gaza Now!”
Israeli politician Moshe Feiglin is giving interview after interview on Israeli television demanding the IDF carry out the complete and total “annihilation” of Gaza with endless airstrikes to cause “destruction like Dresden and Hiroshima.”
YOU are a truly evil racist.
You may think the IDF is innocent.
You may think Israel is complying with international law, but the world disagrees:
On Wednesday, United Nations Secretary-General António Guterres accused Israel of carrying out the “collective punishment of the Palestinian people.”
The next day, Martin Griffiths, the UN’s humanitarian aid chief, warned that “20 days on, heavy bombardments on Gaza continue and are getting worse, even in areas supposed to be safer… The world itself is failing to meet the bare entitlements of a part of humanity. The rules of war are clear: Civilians must be protected and have the essentials to survive.”
On Wednesday, the international charity Oxfam condemned Israel for using mass starvation as a “weapon of war.” Sally Abi Khalil, Oxfam’s regional Middle East director, said, “The situation is nothing short of horrific—where is humanity? Millions of civilians are being collectively punished in full view of the world, there can be no justification for using starvation as a weapon of war.”
“The world disagrees”, you breathlessly claim. There must be some truly impressive logical reasoning to prove this assertion, right? Martin Griffins, one of the many individuals periodically cycled throughout the various U.N. posts, was slightly critical of Israel’s strategies in their counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations. No, not against it, but slightly critical, as he appeared to be implying Israel should have been more lenient towards civilians actively choosing to remain in active-conflict zones after giving them sufficient time and warnings to not do so. But wait, there’s more! A single charity, no, just one cited, is, wait for it, also slightly critical of Israel! A true masterstroke of logic and reasoning, this online internet user will now forever be remembered for his stunning feats of deductive reasoning, and this “post” will be his magnum opus! Must be getting real hard to try to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”?
The world supports a Free Palestine!
End Israeli butchery!
End Israeli racism!
End Israeli Apartheid!
Well that’s certainly interesting. How come only 29 out of 183 countries recognize only “Palestine” then, as “Palestinian resistance” is aimed at creating the exclusive state of “Palestine”. Must be getting real hard to try to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dc54f8f8296e5871d5e026412679ae7ae4e585b10b441fafe99f5ca0b0f48b17.jpg
And only 49 recognize only Israel, and those are mostly current and former imperialist powers and Zionist Occupied Governments.
Except you’re the one claiming the world would be overwhelmingly supporting “Palestine” or the almost equal misnomer of “Palestinian resistance”. So while I never claimed Israel would have have the entire world on its side (it can be hard to win over “feudal-states” like North-Korea), you have claimed that exact equivalent for “Palestine”, and as such you continue to be clearly and irreconcilably wrong in your false and disproven claims.
No evidence will convince you. You intentionally spew the most ridiculous lies in your bigoted defense of Israeli war crimes.
Says the isolated online internet account after being consistently proved wrong that “the world” would support “Palestine”. But I’m sure your just one more unsupported accusation from victory, so keep it up!
Isolated? At least I get some upvotes. If anyone is isolated here it’s you with your transparent Zionist lies and justifications for mass murder..
This might just be one of the easiest false statements from you to disprove: I, too, have received “upvotes” from people. To most reasonable people this would be an irrelevant statement to the validity or invalidity of a point, but I guess in the context of this confused pseudo-clout attempted insult I’ve completely ended you? If I’m so isolated, try this: tell someone in real life you’d “cheer on” the deaths of innocent IDF soldiers as their protecting their friends, families, relatives and loved ones from being massacred at concerts, in bunkers, in their own homes by rockets and terrorists with automatic rifles. You might not get the reaction you seem to believe you’d get from the “many Americans” you seem to believe are just right out there waiting for the right moment. But I’m sure your just one more unsupported accusation from victory, so keep it up!
As Amira Hass, veteran Haaretz correspondent for the Occupied Palestinian Territories explains, the plan amongst the far right in Israel. Since 2017, and no doubt before, the intention has been to force Palestinians to either, live as third class citizens within Israel – giving up all hope of self-determination, emigrate – “expulsion by consent”, or if you don’t capitulate and continue to resist, “the Israeli Defence Force will know what to do with you.” And this is what they (the IDF) are now doing; and the world is bearing witness, but acting not. It is truly shocking and appalling.
Oh no, a “pro-Palestine” journalist would have a negative (and factually unproven and unsupported) opinionated analysis of the Israeli Defense Forces. That completely invalidates every one of the legitimate and supported points I’ve brought up so far! But I’m sure your just one more unsupported accusation from victory, so keep it up!
It’s an Israeli newspaper. As I wrote previously, no evidence convinces bloodthirsty Zionist likes you.
I know that very well, as I unfortunately accidentally read “Haaretz”‘s propaganda once before I knew better, it’s precisely because Israel is a parliamentary democracy that such disgraceful and distorted propaganda is allowed. Compare that to the “government” formed in the areas of “Palestine” and you’ll see people periodically executed for “collaboration with Israel”, which in practice is essentially being seen as not ideologically pure enough, and rational, reasonable, influential individuals can as such clearly see which side deserves their support. But keep on going with your implied claims of repetition when you don’t offer any “evidence” I wouldn’t have already known and would clearly not have affected the substance of the matter anyways. Must be getting real hard to try to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”? I’m sure your just one more unsupported accusation from victory, so keep it up!
IOW you’re rightist, extremist filth.
Putting Palestine in quotes reveals you to be a genocidal racist.
And I can continue to put “Palestine” in quotes the same way I’d put “Tiragray”, “Kosovo” and “Kurdistan”. You’d have yet to explain how any of those would ever make me “genocidal” or prejudiced against specific people or groups. Where would you assume you have enough information about me to assume my political orientation? Meanwhile, there is enough on you I can safely assume you’d probably be more left-leaning (your comments against American rightward political movements despite them having nothing of relevance to the current “conversation” specifically come to mind). But I’m sure you’re just one more unsupported accusation from victory, so keep it up!
“You’d have yet to explain how any of those would ever make me “genocidal” or prejudiced against specific people or groups”
If you can’t understand that there’s no hope for you, monster.
I don’t think you attempting to reuse the same attempted insult against me is working the way you want it to, isolated online internet account accusing others of irrelevance. It mainly just reminds me of that one silly plotline from the disney star wars sequel trilogy where two of the main characters hyper-fixated on that one specific word, and as such it just made me kind of laugh. As for this “conversation”: https://youtu.be/XYAKsGeYzi8
” I can continue to put “Palestine” in quotes”
You can continue to be a genocidal zionist monster.
The people of the world hate you.
A resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, which made no mention of Hamas, was overwhelmingly passed by the United Nations General Assembly on Friday.
One-hundred and twenty countries voted in favor of the non-binding resolution introduced by Jordan, while just 14 — United States, Austria, Croatia, Czechia, Fiji, Guatemala, Hungary, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay and Tonga — voted against it.
Supporting a “ceasefire” for humanitarian resistance is not the same action or state as believing that Israel would be incorrect or unjustified in its self-defense counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations that take every reasonable measure to prevent civilian casualties. Rather, if anything, this would represent a disagreement in how best to execute it. So this is really just another tired misrepresentation attempting to prove your “points” when they’ve clearly already been disproven many, many times before. Must be getting real hard to try to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”?
All your responses are just reiterations of your tired lies. The lack of a condemnation in the resolution indicates that a vast majority of the world sees Israel a the murderous aggressor.
None of my points have been disproved, but I’ve demolished nearly all of yours, and easily so because your Zionist lies are utter racist colonialist rot.
So you’re attempting to imply now that it would be a “lie” that pointing out that a resolution specifically discussing the ways Israel can execute its self-defense justified counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations that take every reasonable measure to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties would not specifically be against the previously mentioned counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations. Of course it wouldn’t be “condemning” Hamas, that wouldn’t be the topic under discussion. If this is what a point being “demolished” looks like, I could get used to it. Must be getting real hard to try to prove your “points” when the truth itself is against you, “aye”?
“7 times worse than 9/11 ”
The value of a nation’s lives is not determined by the size of its population.
1,400 is not 7 times 3,000.
Israeli lives are not worth more than the lives of the people that dies on 9/11.
Prior to the establishment of Israel, Zionists denied the very existence of the Palestinians. Many still do.
When that is the case, it becomes only logical to draw a conclusion that Israel, in its own collective mind, cannot be morally culpable of killing those who have never existed in the first place.
Even when Palestinians factor into the Israeli political discourse, they become “bloodthirsty animals”, “terrorists” or “drugged cockroaches in a bottle”.
It would be too convenient to label this as just ‘racist’. Though racism is at work here, this sense of racial supremacy does not exist to merely maintain a socio-political order, in which Israelis are masters and Palestinians are serfs. It is far more complex.
As soon as Palestinian fighters from Gaza crossed into the southern border of Israel, killing hundreds, not a single Israeli politician, analyst or mainstream intellectual seemed interested in the context of the daring act.
The post-October 7 language used by Israelis, but also many Americans, created the atmosphere necessary for the savage Israeli response which followed.
The number of Palestinians killed in the first eight days of the Israeli war against Gaza has reportedly exceeded the number of casualties who were killed during the longest and most destructive Israeli war on the Strip, dubbed “Protective Edge”, in 2014.
According to DCI–Palestine, a Palestinian child is killed every 15 minutes and, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, over 70% of all of Gaza’s casualties are women and children.
For Israel, none of these facts matter. In the mind of Israeli President Isaac Herzog, often perceived as a ‘moderate’, the “rhetoric about civilians not (being) involved (is) absolutely not true.” They are legitimate targets, simply because they “could’ve risen up, they could have fought against that evil regime”, he said, referring to Hamas.
Therefore, “It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” according to Herzog, who promised payback.
Ariel Kallner, a member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party, explained Israel’s goal behind the Gaza war. “Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948,” he said.
The same sentiment was conveyed by Israeli Defense Minister, Yoav Gallant, the man responsible for translating Israel’s declaration of war into an action plan: “We are fighting human animals and we will act accordingly,” he said on October 9. ‘Accordingly,’ here, meant that “there will be no electricity, no food, no fuel. Everything is closed.” And, of course, thousands of dead civilians.
Since Israel’s top political authorities have already declared that all Palestinians are collectively responsible for the October 7 events, this means that all Palestinians are, per Gallant’s assessment, ‘human animals’, deserving no mercy.
Expectedly, Israel’s supporters in the US and other Western countries joined the chorus, also using the most violent and dehumanizing language, thus cementing mainstream Israeli political discourse among ordinary people.
US presidential hopeful, Nikki Haley, told Fox News on October 10 that the Hamas attack was not just on Israel but “is an attack on America”. It was then that she made her sinister declaration, while looking directly at the camera, “Netanyahu, finish them, finish them (..) finish them!”
Though US President Joe Biden, and his Secretary of State Antony Blinken did not use the exact same words, they both made comparisons between the October 7 events and the terrorist attacks of 9/11. The meaning behind this requires no elaboration.
For his part, US Senator Lindsey Graham rallied American conservative and religious supporters, declaring on October 11, also on Fox News, “We are in a religious war here. (…) Do whatever the hell you have to do. (..) Level the place.”
Much more, equally sinister language was – and continues – to be uttered. The outcome is being broadcast around the clock. Israel is ‘finishing off’ the Gaza civilian population, it is ‘leveling’ thousands of homes, mosques, hospitals, churches and schools. Indeed, it is producing another painful episode of the Nakba.
From Golda Meir’s “Palestinians did not exist” (1969) to Menachem Begin’s Palestinians are “beasts walking on two legs” (1982), to Eli Ben Dahan’s “Palestinians are like animals, they aren’t human” (2013), to numerous other racist and dehumanizing references, the Zionist discourse remains unchanged.
Prior to the establishment of Israel, a “Palestinian” was a Jew born in Palestine.
Are you referring to 1948 or biblical times?
Post-biblical, pre-Israel.
Would you care to elaborate?
Prior to the establishment of Israel, a “Palestinian” was a Jew born in Palestine.
Prior to the establishment of Israel, a “Palestinian” was a Jew born in Palestine.
“Marjory Taylor Greene famously made claims about ‘Jewish Space Lasers'”
She’s famous for doing that … but she didn’t do that. She just hinted at it, referring to the Rothschilds.
All conspiracy theories are just “hinting at” things, as if there was enough proof to support them they’d simply be facts. However, Marjorie Taylor Green specifically spread the “theory”, which in the context of public communication in politics is practically indistinguishable from making and/or endorsing the claim (https://globalnews.ca/news/7607501/marjorie-taylor-greene-jewish-space-laser/).
What she did NOT specifically do was say the words “Jewish space lasers.”
I doubt there’s anyone on the planet who likes MTG less than I do (although there are surely quite a few who dislike her as much as I do). She says enough crazy shit that there’s no need to make up crazy shit for her to have said that she didn’t say.
What she did NOT specifically do was say the words “Jewish space lasers.”
I doubt there’s anyone on the planet who likes MTG less than I do (although there are surely quite a few who dislike her as much as I do). She says enough crazy shit that there’s no need to make up crazy shit for her to have said that she didn’t say.
Except no. By your own admission she specifically and deliberately voiced a “theory” in her public messaging that revolved around accusing a Jewish banker of using space-located resources in a laser-like fashion. Who else would it have been, Jordanian? No-one is “making up” what she would have said, they’re simply following it to its logical conclusion. This distinction is irrelevant anyways, as I’ve also never claimed she specifically said the words “Jewish Space Lasers”, so there’s that as well.
Amnesty International looked at only five bombings of the Israelis and found evidence of war crimes, which should alert the International Criminal Court to re-open its file on Israeli atrocities. This should include the crime of collective punishment by cutting water and electricity to Gaza, and bombing access roads to the Rafah crossing into Egypt, and by bombing the Rafah crossing itself.
He let down his mask and revealed the monster beneath. Tsk tsk.
If you can’t even be bothered to specify who the “he” your referring to would be I don’t particularly feel like bothering to respond much more to this.
Billionaire hedge fund manager and longtime Democratic Party donor Bill Ackman, founder and CEO of Pershing Square Capital Management. among others.
Ah, as not wanting your personal funds to go to people who would support terrorism would be such a horrific position, right? I’m sure they should be “punished” by you as well, isolated online commenter, right? Although I’m sure your just one more unsupported accusation from that victory, so keep it up!
I certainly agree that if someone doesn’t want to support a person or organization for any reason, they shouldn’t have to.
But that’s not the same thing as trying to bully a third party into outing the people you may not want to support to you. I might disagree with you. I might not even like you, and therefore not want to do business with you. But I’m not going to demand that Disqus provide me with your real name and address so that I can be sure you’re not the guy I just contacted on Craigslist about buying a scooter from.
There is a difference between making a request of an organization and “bullying” an organization. The only context we are given in the article about the hedge fund manager’s request is that he “called on” them to complete it, not that he would have done anything else or have ever gone as far as to “bully” them. As such this was not a particularly illuminating response.
Give it a rest. the statement issued by the coalition of 34 Harvard student groups in support of Palestine was not a support for terrorism. That’s another vile Zionist lie.
BTW, the punishment of the Zionist blacklisters won’t come from me, but it will come. This situation is ripe for law suits against those deep pocketed bastards.
You may see this all as fine and dandy, but many Americans see it as an assault on our rights by a pack of disgusting Zionist oligarchs and social parasites like hedge fund trader Ackman.
If these are supposed to be the same “many Americans” who were supposed to have already overthrown the Israeli lobby, halted American support to Israel and kicked out the “old Zionists”, I wouldn’t necessarily be holding my breath.
Watch and see. Zionism in the US is fossilized.
Big changes are coming. US support for Israel has jumped the shark.
Reminds me of the group that thought 2012 would be the end of the world. Thought it would be because it was the end of the Mayan calendar and a couple Bible verses, some guy had convinced them that because of that they should give him all of their money and “worldly belongings” given their alleged irrelevance in the future, but the point was, you’d think it would stop when the world didn’t end in 2012, right? Except each time it didn’t, the main guy came back and after a process of “re-evaluating” the alleged text and evidence, would say that while he got the date wrong the “gist” was right and it was still coming. But the “flock” stayed strong, while members said that they couldn’t consider it being wrong because they’d invested too much into it. Eventually it all falls apart, but with enough blind belief and investment fallacy you can drag it out for quite a while. Most left eventually, but it was at quite the later point.
Your silly analogy aside, the fossilized state of Zionism is well supported by public opinion polls that break out Zionist support by age/generation.
78% of those 45 and older think the U.S. should take a publicly pro-Israel stance, but just 48% of those under 45 said so.
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/13/1205627092/american-support-israel-biden-middle-east-hamas-poll
That number is going to drop dramatically in response to the bloodbath in Gaza.
People often change their opinions or stances when their goals change from appearing to be or appearing to not be reachable. Compare support for other conflicts in their early stages versus in their later stages. Currently, many youth say their voices on this issue aren’t “heard”. If there’s a change in that perception, they may take the time to reconsider.
For the past 60 years, every generation of Americans has supported Israel less than the previous ones, and that tend has also consistently accelerated in velocity. So support goes down and at a faster rate in every successive generation.
Notice how during the period you mention American governmental political support for Israel continued to remain strong. As such, my actual point continues to remain supported.
“During the period you mention American governmental political support for Israel continued to remain strong”
US leadership has failed to fully reflect the decrease in support for Israel because of the anti-democratic nature of the Israel Lobby’s control of US policy towards Israel. The Zionist billionaires who are barking threats at student activists are one part of that anti-democratic Lobby.
That’s just an opinion. Not a particularly insightful or illuminating one mind you, but as such it doesn’t appear to offer much of relevance to this “conversation”.
LOL. You’re a filthy blood soaked hypocrite.
You present your own opinions as fact, but chide me for offering a different interpretation.
Except no. You claim the U.S. Congress and/or legislative branch would be unrepresentative compared to what you’d wish to be, an opinion, and while the nature of the accusation that the Israel lobby would “control” U.S. politics makes it particularly difficult to prove or disprove, as such it remains either an opinion or a conspiracy, but while if you truly wish to to you can claim its not an opinion given that there’s only one other option your of course free to continue to by all means. The crux of these “conversations” has been that you have not offered an “interpretation”, but rather simply an array of incorrect, false, and unsupported accusations and claims you have continuously been unable to prove.
“the Israel lobby would “control” U.S. politics”
I did not assert anything quite so universal.
I said Zionists control US foreign policy towards Israel and to a slightly lesser extent Middle East policy in general.
“The crux of these “conversations” has been that you have not offered an “interpretation”, but rather simply an array of incorrect, false, and unsupported accusations and claims you have continuously been unable to prove.”
More bullshit from our resident pathological liar. Typical Zionist arrogance.
For centuries, Palestinian Christians, Muslims, and Jews lived side-by-side in the lands that would eventually be Israel and the OPT, including along the Jordan River Valley. Since the expulsion of the Palestinian Christians and Muslims and the arrival of European Jews, the legal apparatus—or the “cold violence,” as the writer Teju Cole calls it—worked alongside paramilitary and military violence against the Palestinians to create a fantasy of an ethno-nationalist state project (the Jewish State, as it was then called). The erasure of the non-Jewish Palestinians was key to this project, either by massacres (Deir Yassin in 1948) or the wholesale removal of the Palestinian population from their land (the Nakba of 1948). The massacres and the population transfers came alongside the denial of the reality of Palestine and the Palestinian people. The heir to Ze’evi, current finance minister Bezalel Smotrich said this March, “There’s no such thing as Palestinians because there’s no such thing as a Palestinian people.” This is not an opinion that can be dismissed as a far-right rant. Likud member Ofir Akunis, minister of science and technology, said three years ago, “There’s no place for any formula to establish a Palestinian state in Western Israel.” The phrase “Western Israel” is a chilling statement about the Israeli consensus on full annexation of the West Bank with disregard for international law.
Here’s another Zionist billionaire flexing his plutocratic power in defense of Israel’s war crimes . A real scumbag.
One recent example of this “donor revolt” is illustrative: the Wexner Foundation announced last week that “the Harvard Kennedy School [HKS] and the Wexner Foundation are no longer compatible partners.” This is due to President Gay’s allegedly “tiptoeing, equivocating” response to the PSC statement and “the absence of [a] clear moral stand.”
The Wexner Foundation was co-founded by Leslie Wexner, the billionaire founder of Bath & Body Works and former owner of Abercrombie & Fitch and Victoria’s Secret. He gave more than $42 million to HKS in the years leading up to 2012, and one of HKS’s main buildings is named after him. In addition to his “philanthropy,” he is most well known for his decades-long personal and professional relationship with financier and sex trafficker of underage girls Jeffrey Epstein; he was Epstein’s main personal client until 2007, fully a year and a half after Epstein was charged with unlawful sexual activity with a minor and related offenses in Florida, and Epstein was a trustee of the Wexner Foundation’s board.
Just as inequality in general is increasingly incompatible with what remains of democracy, so is the subordination of universities to wealthy donors incompatible with academic freedom. The right-wing, pro-Zionist “donor revolt” is a qualitative development in big-money university donors attempting to use their power and influence to shape campus discourse. That these donors wield such influence—and that many of them seek to do so publicly—is an indication of how deeply compromised academia already is.
These oppressive Zionist billionaires are going to have a hard time showing their faces in public and anyone closely associated with them will be persona non grata at the Ivies. Wait and see.
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of support. DeSantis, a navy officer who worked with navy seals, is entirely correct in taking a principled stand against taxpayer funds being used to support terrorist organizations (its not a very well-kept secret that many “humanitarian” funds made their way to Hamas) and abortions (in the case of the killing of a human being for the convenience of the mother), and whatever effect it may have is almost entirely irrelevant to the principle of the position.
The blacklists will only increase the fury of Zionism’s opponents. The Zionists will pay for this repression of Americans.
Hey! Here’s a Zionist conspiracy for you. I’ll let one of your heroes do the talking.
Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who served as an Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s, had disclosed in an interview to the New York Times that he had contributed to financing the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party. He further confessed that the Israeli government had provided him with a budget. A retired Israeli official Avner Cohen had also given a similar statement during his interview to the Wall Street Journal on Jan 24, 2009. “Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” he confessed and further explained that “Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas.” Furthermore, Cohen disclosed that he had warned his officers against pursuing a divide-and-rule policy in the Occupied Territories and vehemently opposed Israel’s support for Palestinian Islamists over Palestinian secularists. Former Republican Congressman Ron Paul also stated that “Hamas was actually encouraged and initiated by Israel to counteract Yasser Arafat
This proves nothing. That Israel backed certain “Palestinian” organizations back when they believed they could be used to create peace is not and has not been a secret, yet you noticeably are never able to explain how the fact that they made a mistake while trying to save lives would mean they’re evil or mean they’d deserve to be destroyed, or some other cheap shlock along those lines. If you truly care as much about civilian casualties as you’ve seemed to imply than you should support the side thats entire mission is to end them.
“you noticeably are never able to explain how my unsupported assertion that they made a mistake while trying to save lives”
Fixed, no charge.
This confused me: Israel supported organizations like these before they realized what they were/would do: https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/. As such I’d consider that either an intelligence and/or policy failure. What about that would be unsupported or an assertion?
Israel — or at least Likud — supported Hamas at least as late as 2019.
Yeah, that seems true and is information I don’t think I’ve ever disputed: https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/.
Nothing ever proves anything negative about Israel to you, because you’re an Israel Firster and never should have been allowed into this country.
Eventually, we, the American People, will wake up and fix this treasonous situation and Zionists will be shunned in US politics and society
Except as a natural American citizen the U.S. government couldn’t have ever cancelled my citizenship. And thats funny, I’d consider preventing genocide a very American thing, but what would I know, I’ve only lived there for most of my life. So if you ever bother trying to vote for some of these weird conspiracies you seem to keep promoting, prepare to be easily countered.
“Except as a natural American citizen the U.S. government couldn’t have ever cancelled my citizenship. ” I thought you were from a foreign country?
I’m not promoting conspiracies, liar. Lies come so naturally to Zionists. It’s all they have.
When did I ever imply anything along those lines? I haven’t lived my entire life in the U.S. but I never stated anything to the contrary. But if thats really your entire “argument” that might show you being unable to follow facts or logic, something that might not reflect on you very well.
“I have never “minimized” any actual brutality or war-crimes the IDF may have committed”
In fact that’s all you do. You’re a typical pathologically dishonest Zionist
May God smite the IDF killers!
Another unsupported, false and misguided analysis of the current conflict. Although I don’t particularly remember god ever favoring terrorists who attempt acts of genocide, so I guess we’ll have to see how it goes…
What’s
Their mission? Carpet bomb Gaza? Hamas disgusting. Israeli response disgusting. Hamas wins because chaos and a breakdown of humanity are the objectives of terrorism.
Increasingly it seems all those claims of Hamas atrocities are Israeli fabrications.
Wow, one single element of Hamas’s terrorism and acts of attempted genocide (the deliberate killings of babies) have not been verified. Notice how thats irrelevant compared to the elephant in the room, that being every other element of Hamas’s verified terrorist activities. Godspeed IDF!
No, the justified Israeli self-defense counter-terrorism and anti-genocide response has absolutely respected human rights and taken every reasonable measure to reduce civilian casualties.
Are you paid well?
He/She is a university student paid to type. And type he/she is doing. A script.
If he is, he’s screwing those who are paying him. Says the same f*cking thing repeatedly.
Maybe a real genuine bot! Unlike those picked by the scam Hamilton 68.
I don’t think so. Bots are getting pretty good these days, but most can’t this convincingly dramatize perpetual butt-hurt.
Haha
https://news.antiwar.com/2023/10/08/israeli-lawmaker-says-pogroms-against-palestinians-provoked-hamas-assault/ Not an isolated event. Quite common. Settlers have been rampaging for many months. With the brave IDF soldiers standing by in case a Palestinian fights back. With rocks.
I have been pleasantly surprised by Biden up until this point. After a few articles like this, Ive decided Ill never vote in another American election again.
Yiu have not been doing your homework.
You have been pleasantly surprised by marketing.
What else should Bibi’s poodle do?
Have we lost our humanity? Are we just too busy to be bothered by people who seem to have lost theirs?
When did we have humanity? It’s like the fallacy of making America great again.
It looks like Israel is going to avoid invading Gaza and stand before the world performing a slow, months-long war machine genocide from the safety of plush downtown offices, with total barbaric support from former colonial nations dreaming of past power and wealth.
Nope. They will invade. Joe has said he will commit American soldiers.
With all the billions of US taxpayers monies given and all the hardware available what’s stopping the coward apartheid zionist army from confronting Hamas head on in their much hyped ground invasion and not target Palestinian civilians through indiscriminate aerial bombardment? The weather?
This apartheid zionist army really need NATO to help it fight Hamas?
Coward baby killers.
This carpet bombing of civilians makes sense because somewhere out there, terrorists are hiding in Gaza. Maybe. Or maybe they already left.
The Kissinger protocol. Kill anything that moves. Diabolical.
“By failing to condemn Israel, the US is giving cover to a terrorist group that brutalizes innocent civilians. It is outrageous, hypocritical, and indefensible,”
War is peace,freedom is slavery black iswhite.
Yeah, that just about sums up the Zionist lies.
Except no, its Israel that is defending their population in their justified self-defense counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations that take every reasonable measure to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties. On the other hand, its not very surprising that unsupported accusations and claims are what you resort to. Its hard to prove a point when the truth itself is against you.
Yawn.
You’re repeating yourself a lot
And I can continue to repeat the truth about Israel’s justified self-defense counter-terrorism and anti-genocide operations that take every reasonable measure to reduce if not eliminate civilian casualties for as long as you cant actually approach “proving” me wrong, which seems to get farther and farther away every time you continuously seem unable to do just that. The truth doesn’t have to be riveting or exciting, it just has to be true.
Disgusting as usual!!!
What does that even mean? The discussion is about stopping the war so that more people are not killed; it’s not about discussing whose fault anything is. What kind of “ambassador” says idiotic things like this? As for the poodles voting with us or abstaining (Switzerland? Really?), my God, have you no pride at all?
so. there was a UN Security Council Resolution for Gaza Ceasefire
but “The US, Britain, France, and Japan voted against the measure”.
well that certainly says it all right there, doesn’t it.
remember Bush jr = “you are either with us or you are with the terrorists”
of course, Iraq’s Saddam was deemed to be a terrorist even though Saddam routinely eliminated actual muslim terrorists from his Iraq.
“you are either with us or you are with the terrorists”
for 75 years-Arabs attack-Arabs get a buttkicking ,then run to the UN for a ceasefire.